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Around SBN: Dan Marino Starting College For Developmentally Disabled

GameThread #3: Wolves @ OKC Thunder

Minnesota Timberwolves at Oklahoma City Thunder, Nov 2, 2008 6:00 PM CST


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Sorry for the late Game Thread. Here's our first shot at a division rival. Discuss.

Broadcast: FSN North, KFAN

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stupid 6pm starts

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
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by Stop-n-Pop on Nov 2, 2008 6:20 PM CST reply actions  

I agree, i hate those

It’s even worse when they start at like 5 or 4 on a sunday.

by Tony_O on Nov 2, 2008 6:36 PM CST up reply actions  

NBA league pass not loading...

argh…. it’s worked every game until now. just sits there at 98% loaded…… anybody have any ideas?

by wolfen on Nov 2, 2008 6:39 PM CST reply actions  

It was broke for most of the game...

….the archive is up and running.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Nov 2, 2008 9:10 PM CST up reply actions  

four minutes to go

only have the box score/gamecast to go on but foye looks terrible! 6 AST to five TO, no field goals? and where has love been all game, is he just not getting any minutes? with just 3:30 to go i don’t like the feel of this one bit.

by secretarykissinger on Nov 2, 2008 8:16 PM CST reply actions  

Soooo… Down by 3, 16 seconds remaining. Coming out of a timeout, the Wolves draw up a play to get the ball to Foye, who’s 0-for-9? (0-for-10 now).

by jianfu on Nov 2, 2008 8:25 PM CST reply actions  

for god's sake

foye keeps missing in the fourth period, now 0-10! combining with our other shoot first death matcher to hurl 1 for 16 tonight. and where’s love while we’re getting massacred on the boards? i just want some answers.

by secretarykissinger on Nov 2, 2008 8:26 PM CST reply actions  

I'll tell ya this much

I Know we are in a Rebuilding Mode and all, But this shouldn’t be happening, We have the Wrong Head coach to be leading this club in the rebuilding mode, Randy Wittman Sucked in Cleveland and HE SUCKS HERE, He Made KG Look Like Fricken Ndudi Ebi for god sake, FIRE THIS IDIOT. We Need a Better Coach that this to lead us in the Rebuilding Process.

by Tony_O on Nov 2, 2008 8:27 PM CST reply actions  

I am not a fan of Wittman either

I am not sure what the sentiment is around here but I think Casey would be doing a better job……

by bheidge on Nov 2, 2008 8:51 PM CST up reply actions  

they should have held him hostage...

…when Dallas came to town.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Nov 2, 2008 9:09 PM CST up reply actions  

the sentiment here is the same as yours :). I’m still willing to wait on Foye until halfway through the season though. After that it’s Bassy all the way and hopefully we already got a new coach by then.

by Wim (Belgium) on Nov 3, 2008 4:18 AM CST up reply actions  

not to invoke a cliche but WTF?

again, i didn’t see the game but were the coaching decisions at the end as awful as they appear to have been? this game just makes no sense to me.

maybe dwayne casey put some sort of coaching hex on the team when he visited last night?

by secretarykissinger on Nov 2, 2008 8:31 PM CST reply actions  

Cant Wait till Telfair comes Back next game

and starts at PG, Because Foye was one of the stupidest mistakes McHale did, Trading Brandon Roye for Randy Foye, Come on.

by Tony_O on Nov 2, 2008 8:33 PM CST reply actions  

Oh well.

I was going to mention that Corey Brewer looked great down the stretch, generating a lot of pressure on the perimeter just like his Gator days. He may never be able to score in the halfcourt, but if he can mark guys like Durant like he was doing for stretches tonight, he’ll have a role.

I agree Love should be finishing games. Witt’s watching other rookies doing it right in front of his face (Thompson; Westbrook tonight); Love’s been just as impressive as them, so I don’t see what Witt’s doing. I like Gomes. He’s smart, hustles, all that. I just don’t care to see him at the 4 in crunchtime.

Foye and McCants were both brutal tonight. Also, Mike Miller will show up eventually, but he’s been rather pedestrian thus far.

The Sonics…er…Thunder also got too many transition opps down the stretch. Of course a made bucket once in a while could have remedied that a bit.

by jianfu on Nov 2, 2008 8:38 PM CST reply actions  

I was a Sonics fan since 1994

I wish nothing but misery for OKC and its fans. Oh well, now I can focus on the Wolves for the entire season. It did become problematic when they restructed the division and Seattle joined us….

by bheidge on Nov 2, 2008 8:46 PM CST up reply actions  

maybe

its not that foye is really so much the problem — it’s hard to tell since he’s being misused and miscoached so badly. this whole scheme with him starting at the point was rotten, and there’s a complete lack of imagination in trying to figure out how he can prosper. in the meantime the routine of him sucking and getting benched for ollie or whoever and then next time out being given the ball with 17 seconds left can’t be good for his head; his whole game is draining away.

by secretarykissinger on Nov 2, 2008 8:41 PM CST reply actions  

very excellent point!

by Wim (Belgium) on Nov 3, 2008 4:19 AM CST up reply actions  

Ok we have miller and McCants in the game

and he draws it up to have Gomes take the 3? I don’t get that at all. Foye is becoming frustrating at the PG….

by bheidge on Nov 2, 2008 8:43 PM CST reply actions  

coaching and foye...

…that’s what it’s going to be about the rest of the way.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Nov 2, 2008 9:09 PM CST up reply actions  

BTW...

…I don’t think it’s possible for Foye to have a worse game.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Nov 2, 2008 9:12 PM CST up reply actions  

I think both of you guys are seriously impatient.

No offence or anything. But it’s game 3. I saw the first 3 quarters (at Mortimer’s where the asses charged me $5 for a pint of beer on "special"). I saw a very young team with some really nice talent that made mistakes young players/teams make all the time. I’m probably alone on this, and I didn’t see the last quarter which was clearly the worst, but Foye was fine for the 3 quarters I saw. At least 2 of the turnovers weren’t his fault, e.g. the inbounds pass that was thrown into the backcourt, all he could do with that was lob it back and hope a teammate caught it (if anything he should have taken the violation, which would still have been his turnover). He played with poise, made some very nice passes into the post, played good D, and above all just hit guys in rhythm – he just knew how to get the ball to guys where they like to get it. That, to me, is 90% of playing PG. The only real mistakes I saw were when he tried to go into the lane and pass. He’s not going to be a drive-and-dish guy – just not his game – I think he should just look for his own shot on penetration Ă  la Billups, he’s big enough to do that against most of the guys who are guarding him. He did have a cold shooting night, and I think that also has to do with him learning the new position – as a PG you always have to be thinking, is this the right time to be shooting or not?, and the answer is very different than for a SG.

I think there will come a time when things just click – when he understands how to make offence for himself from the PG spot, when it’s right to shoot long Js, etc. But the bottom line for me, and I might very well be wrong on this, is that he doesn’t look out of place at that position.

by plinytheelder on Nov 2, 2008 11:52 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah, probably overreacting a bit:

of course we’re trigger-happy when it comes to foye; in part it’s due to the front office’s hyping him unreasonably from the roy swap onward, and partly it’s due to what you say below about actually having a “good” team — now that we have developed some faith that maybe the team isn’t as putrid as it was before, it makes all the pointless mistakes and hapless leadership that much harder to swallow.

but thanks for your rosier outlook on foye. i guess i’ll split the difference with SnP’s rather grim accounting and just settle on mediocrity. which in this case is familiar territory!

by secretarykissinger on Nov 3, 2008 12:23 AM CST up reply actions  

He's 25...

…with less service time than McCants, and he’s learning the position at the hardest level imaginable. This is about cutting your losses early enough to get someone in there who can still be a part of this team when it becomes good. I said it last year and I say it now. They won’t pull the trigger on what they already know because of the Foye/Roy business. If he’s not going to be a drive and dish guy on a team with 2 other 40% shooters and 2 pretty decent low post players, he’s not cut out for the job.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Nov 3, 2008 7:06 AM CST up reply actions  

this is a bad situation

I’m with you on the “They won’t pull the trigger on what they already know…”

What happens if Bassy comes back and demonstrates he’s the only decent PG on the squad? Play Foye at SG? Even if he were big enough to play there for extended run, talk about a logjam at the wing positions. Foye, McCants, Miller, Brewer, Gomes, Carney. I just don’t see that ending well.

I think you’re right and they’re locked into playing Foye at PG, for better or worse. The whole season depends on whether he can hack it.

by highpockets on Nov 3, 2008 7:40 AM CST up reply actions  

We needed this one.

With the Spurs coming, this might not be a pretty start to the season.

by Twins Territory on Nov 2, 2008 9:12 PM CST reply actions  

it's already ugly and the spurs aren't even in town yet!

also: can someone give me the lowdown on what the deal was with love tonight? i guess SnP’s declaration that he’s now our second best player was heard loud and clear by the people that matter, so they meted out a full 17 minutes to him tonight. any ideas on the rationale for keeping him sitting?

by secretarykissinger on Nov 2, 2008 9:18 PM CST up reply actions  

the only rationale I can see

is that Wittman wants to bring him along slowly. He did make a few defensive mistakes tonight, kind of rookie mistakes. Anyways I agree, he needs more time, hopefully he’ll get it soon.

This might sound strange after a bad loss but one of the nice things about the Wolves is that they have a lot of really good players. Not stars, but really good players. It must be hard trying to give them all playing time. An obvious point I guess, and I still think Love needs more time, but the playing time decisions must be tough.

by plinytheelder on Nov 2, 2008 11:56 PM CST up reply actions  

On a positive note

I didn’t see the game (you got mail snp) but I just wanted to mention Brewer again shooting 40%. I’m gonna stick on this guys band wagon for at least the full year this time. Shouldn’t have doubted after being so happy we picked him.

by Wim (Belgium) on Nov 3, 2008 5:01 AM CST reply actions  

That was a bad collapse late in the game. I thought the Wolves were close to finishing the game off in the third, just couldn’t find that killer blow, and then they slowly started falling apart.

I felt the bench players where in there too long, and did too much damage. By the time the starters came back OKC had all the momentum, and the Wolves couldn’t regain any fluidity to their play.

by NBR on Nov 3, 2008 7:37 AM CST reply actions  

I wrote about it...

…in the wrap up, but the substitution patterns for the Wolves were terrible. It was obvious during the game but really obvious when you look at popcorn game flow.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Nov 3, 2008 8:19 AM CST up reply actions  

Craig Smith...

shouldn’t have been on the floor at the end of the 3rd quarter – if Big Al needs a blow right then get Mad Dog out there and try to stop the bleeding in the defensive paint.

The game was lost in the last 5 min of the 3rd quarter and I agree Wittman’s sub patterns are a big part of it.

by highpockets on Nov 3, 2008 8:28 AM CST up reply actions  

I've been saying it since his rookie year...

Foye sucks. It’s obvious to anyone that watches him and actually knows basketball.

Good luck with him and his “potential.” He’s already 25 yo and had 4 years of college ball. He will never be better than what he is right now… and that’s not very good. I’d rather roll with Telfair and trade McCants/Foye for whatever we can get. Draft one of the young stud PG’s in this year’s draft.

by College Wolf on Nov 3, 2008 8:50 AM CST reply actions  

I think...

…I made my first Shaddy/Foye post last December. This draft day, I fully expect to be writing about which point guard the new coach will have to work with. I’d like to rename the DM to something that more accurately reflects the front office’s role in the matter. It’s not the players’ fault they’re being put in the situation they’re in. I’m also going to coin the phrase The Randy Problem. Between Foye and Witt I think you can pinpoint the team’s 2 biggest issues: point play and coaching. Foye is a lesser version of Shaddy yet he’s being given the starting point job. I’ll never, ever get it.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Nov 3, 2008 10:33 AM CST up reply actions  

if it's not a death match

what shall we call it?

a stalemate? a murder-suicide?

by secretarykissinger on Nov 3, 2008 10:42 AM CST up reply actions  

:)

It is a death match, isn’t it? I just don’t want to be rude to the players. I’m sure they’re both nice people and I don’t want to make it about anything but front office personnel decisions and on-court performance.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Nov 3, 2008 10:50 AM CST up reply actions  

hmmm...

I have to say, and I mean no disrespect to you, I find this comment a bit strange. I’m of the opinion, as my comments above make clear, that Foye is not only good but has quite a bit of potential, even potential at the PG spot. Clearly that makes me a minority here, which is fine, but I don’t see how the fact that I don’t think he “sucks” goes to whether I “actually know basketball.”

Anyways, message for kissinger, S/P, and bheidge: I just reread my post from last night (9:52pm). I’m hoping none of you took what I wrote in bold print as a sign of disrespect: I meant only disagreement. Tone is hard to get across in these comments, so if it came across the wrong way, I apologize. Like I said, I’m not at all sure about Foye – I could very well be wrong about him – and frankly I tried to spell out what I think about him as clearly as possible because I’m interested to hear what you all think. Hopefully you interpreted what I wrote as disagreement and nothing more.

by plinytheelder on Nov 3, 2008 12:32 PM CST up reply actions  

I get what you're saying...

…and I think that there is a solid argument to be made in Foye’s favor. I get where you’re coming from on this one.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Nov 3, 2008 12:41 PM CST up reply actions  

cool...

I was more concerned about my tone. As I said, I meant no disrespect to anyone, and I think what I wrote in bold was written too hastily. My bad.

by plinytheelder on Nov 3, 2008 12:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah...

It definitely still should be called the “Death Match.”

by College Wolf on Nov 3, 2008 12:08 PM CST reply actions  

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