Building A Winning Basketball Team
I was about to go to bed when I ran through a discussion with Jim Stack in the Pioneer Press's Cav's pre-game article brought about by LeBron's impending free agency:
"There are a lot of variables that play into that (cap space)," general manager Jim Stack said. "It's hard to say there's going be X amount, but I do know we're going to have the cap room to sign players if we decide to go that route. Probably as much as any team. You can't put all your eggs in one basket, but we want to potentially sign one or two max-level free agents to add to our core group."
Jim Stack, you have stated my fears. "Potentially sign one or two max-level free agents to add to our core group?????" That's insane! When has that EVER worked in an NBA team's championship-caliber roster-building?
Not only that, but if we're going to sign these "max-level" free agents in addition to keeping our core together, I hope Taylor Corporation blows their wedding invitation sales projections away these next two years. And these "max-level" free agents will choose to join a franchise in Minnesota that has alienated it's only superstar why?
Enough indignation. The Timberwolves already have a team of youngsters assembled by Kevin McHale, largely of players drafted by a guy I'm about to hold up as an example. But right now they're bad and they're not improving. Maybe they will improve (later this year? next year? five years?), maybe they never will.
Since the team is so bad and the fans feel they've endured enough pain watching KG leave and having no hope in the present, the pressure to put together a winning product is understandably high. The trick, of course, is figuring out how.
When you look at the way Boston, Portland and San Antonio have built their cores , it's clearly through the draft; that's even true for Boston. Not only are Paul Pierce, Rajon Rondo, Kendrick Perkins, Leon Powe and Tony Allen all Celtics picks, but the two players that brought them from terrible to championship were acquired by trading cap filler and the Celtics' own draft picks (save Sebastian Telfair).
The only free agents these teams sign are role players. House, Cassell, O'Bryant, Scalabrine in Boston; Blake and Przybilla in Portland; and Bowen, Finley, Horry, Barry, etc.
I had a whole flow chart of how the Celtics were built, but it turned into too big of a pain to post, so let me give you the Clif's notes:
- Team peaks, over time trade away all but their best player for cap space and draft picks.
- Decide each year which draft-eligible players are "their guys." Draft them. Acquire more picks to draft "their guys" if they're available at low picks. Buy low on talent that has fallen in the draft.
- Let prospects develop, while enduring one disappointing and one painful year.
- Trade draft picks and prospects you've discovered aren't really "your guys" for stars stuck on flailing teams.
Sounds a lot easier than it really is, I know. But I think most experts would agree that the draft is the best way to build a consistently successful team. And if so, the next question is who to turn to for execution of the strategy?
The current Wolves front office has proven that it cannot adequately evaluate talent so as to build a contender. It's not about who we could have had, it's about the fact that the players we did take are not the franchise cornerstones we need them to be.
Is the draft essentially a crapshoot? Any GM will tell you it is, right? Sure they will, but they'll be giving you the PR line. The fact of the matter is that some GMs are good evaluators of a player's ability and potential, some aren't, and some are in between. The good evaluators succeed in the draft, regardless of their draft position.
Danny Ainge knows how to evaluate talent (kooky brain wave tests and all), Isaiah Thomas knows how, Donnie Nelson knows, Greg Poppovich knows, Kevin Pritchard apparently knows, and so do plenty of others. But now we're presented with another problem: how do the Wolves choose the appropriate leader? Or, more precisely, how does Glen Taylor choose the appropriate leader.
I must credit Chad Hartman for the solution I like (or Rosen, I can't remember): bring in a known basketball mind to 1) find the new leadership team and 2) step out of the way. The fact that Taylor allowed the chief executive of the previous owners stay on for 14+ years is proof enough that while he may have a great business mind, he does not have a great professional sports mind. (I think this still jives with his appointment to the NBA Board of Directors Chair position, because at that level it's ALL business).
The example they KFAN mentioned was Jerry West, who built a playoff team in Memphis (that, admittedly, never really went anywhere) and contributed to the Lakers success at the turn of the millenium. But to me who is less important, there should be plenty of names that his BoD buddies can give him. Heck, Jerry Colangelo might even do it for free.
So while we'll talk about trades and coaching moves and players all season, the real problem is that the Blueprint isn't working. Hiring the same architects that designed this house to renovate it would be just another step backwards for Glen Taylor's franchise. Rebuilding will mean starting from the very top. We just may have to wait 6 months for it to start.
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Jerry West, doesn’t sound bad at all.
Beater of the early Thabeet drum
by Wim (Belgium) on Dec 17, 2008 2:12 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
this is much
along the lines that I have been thinking. we need a new FO. I will prefice this by saying that I am usually a fan of promoting from within. but in this case the the FO is as much culpable for this mess as McHale is. there for, we need to look outside, not just for a new GM but also to rebuild the entire FO. maybe a few peices stick around, but most of te existing FO needs to be brushed aside, so that the club can be tacken in a new direction. in this case, promoting form within would just be more of the same home cook’n that has proven to be unseccessfull.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Dec 17, 2008 7:01 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Very well put...
….this is a front office problem more than anything else.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 17, 2008 7:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
PS:
I want Jim Stack nowhere near this rebuilding effort from here on out.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 17, 2008 7:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed, we need a new GM
and a new college scouting director.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Dec 17, 2008 7:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's a picture of the free agent wonderland that is Minnesota (taken yesterday):

I think it was -6 when I took that.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 17, 2008 7:30 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure Isaiah belongs on that list...
he’s had some decent picks, but has ruined just about everything he’s touched, franchise wise. He’s a bad guy.
One of the fundamental problems I’ve mentioned here and in other blogs in the past, is the arrogance of players who believe they can step off the hardwood and become a successful executive just because they know the game. McHale is a classic case of this. To be really good at anything, regardless of discipline, most folks—regardless of talent—have to work at it. How many ex-players have we seen fail at running a franchise? Quite a few.
Then there’s the arrogance of wealth, owners who built their empires in other industries and think they can transfer their principles to running a basketball franchise. Sometimes it works, in the Wolves case it certainly hasn’t. Here’s where having some humility and objectivity about one’s own contribution to the cause really helps. I have no idea what metrics and goals Taylor has when he evaluates executive performance—his or his team—but based on the results, I have to believe they’re skewed. And here’s where the core piece of the problem is…can Taylor back away from the table and let a “Jerry West” type run the team?
The evidence isn’t pretty. I mean, the one year he and McHale put the franchise in a position to win a championship, he looks back at it as a failed experiment. If there’s any blueprint to be “tweaked”, maybe going back to that one and melding some of the good things that have happened cap wise over the last year would be a decent place to start. But can he be objective over the mess he and the Iron Ranger have created here, especially in the talent evaluation area?
Hmm….
by Peter W on Dec 17, 2008 7:32 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
The class-based angle here...
…is priceless. Papa Glen would be right at home on Wall Street with this crew. The sad thing about all of this (and it really comes out in the Stack article) is that Taylor is buying into it. The Blueprint has apparently been revealed as bringing in Bosh + Lebron (or something along those lines) and this joker signed off on it. This is the grand plan? That’s like planning for your retirement by penciling in a winning lotto ticket at age 65.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 17, 2008 7:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Isaiah was awful at trades, no doubt.
But his draft picks have really shown that he tends to be above conventional wisdom. People slammed him for Balkman and Chandler. Now both guys are good NBA players. David Lee and Nate Robinson were Thomas picks. In Toronto, I believe he had a hand in picking McGrady.
So although I’d want him nowhere near the reins of a team, he’s proven his ability to evaluate draft talent.
And to clarify about Jerry West (or Colangelo, or anyone brought in by Taylor): I think they need to hire someone like this as a headhunter to recruit the new regime. So someone comes in and helps Taylor hire the GM, etc. and then backs off and let’s the new GM do their thing.
by wyn on Dec 17, 2008 7:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly, I understand that there was an emotional part to it but the rational part would have had the Knicks keeping him as a scout, with his only involvement in decisions being the draft
Beater of the early Thabeet drum
by Wim (Belgium) on Dec 17, 2008 8:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
interesting point about the picks -
not only was McGrady Isaiah’s pick, he also had to convince the rest of the FO in Toronto about this. I don’t want him anywhere near this organization but he has pulled off some good picks.
by plinytheelder on Dec 17, 2008 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and Ainge?
Not sure he belongs on the list either. If not for the KG trade he would be looking a lot like McHale right now in terms of his draft day abilities. I once thought that Jefferson, Allen and Pierce would have made a nice trio last year given Jefferson’s offensive prowes in comparison to KG. I suffer from no such delusions anymore.
by Andy B on Dec 17, 2008 2:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta disagree.
The difference between McHale and Ainge’s track record is that Ainge’s picks fall into a couple groups:
Performing well in Boston (Rondo, Perkins, Tony Allen, Powe, Davis)
Performing well elsewhere (Big Al, Delonte West, Gomes)
Able to dump them before anyone else McHale realized that Ainge was getting the better of the deal (Banks, Green, Reed)
Just let them go (Brandon Hunter, Orien Greene)
He gambled and lost on Telfair, but I think his track record for selecting talent is extremely good.
And sure, if he hadn’t been able to acquire KG he wouldn’t be looking as rosy as he does. BUT, the only reason he was able to acquire KG was because he had a number of cheap, but talented/high potential prospects to dangle.
McHale has been unable to amass such a stable.
by wyn on Dec 17, 2008 3:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
To clarify,
Breaking Ainge’s picks into those (very subjective) groups, is my way of illustrating that most of the players are in the first two groups, only two are in the “let ’em go” group and he was able to get value out of prospects that didn’t pan out.
by wyn on Dec 17, 2008 3:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I not sure I can go there with you
Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, Telfair and eveng Gerald Green would look like pretty good picks if they played with Allen, Pierce and KG. Likewise, If Ainge had sent Perkins, Rondo, and Allen in place of Telfair, Jefferson, Gomes and Green to the Wolves for KG we would all be wondering if you could really build a franchise around Rondo while the rest of them would look like role players.
But, Ainge, Like McHale, was able to stockpile a bunch of draft picks to make the trade. There is Quality in Quantiy. You just have to find it.
by Andy B on Dec 17, 2008 3:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
To Clarify,
The difference btw McHale and Ainge is not that great if you consider the quantity of picks Ainge had over a short period of time. He was about to be run out of Boston before he parlayed those picks into KG and Allen. Ohterwise it would have been a long and painful rebuilding process. QUantity is nothing if you don’t have the superstars and neither Ainge nor Mchale was lucky enough to draft the superstar. Well, McHale did, but then …
by Andy B on Dec 17, 2008 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not trying to over-parse your words, but I want to make sure I understand your points.
Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, Telfair and eveng Gerald Green would look like pretty good picks if they played with Allen, Pierce and KG.
I’m missing your point here. I think Al and Gomes look like good picks whether they’re in Boston or Minnesota. Green was a good pick at the time because Boston got a “Top 5 talent” at #18. He hasn’t panned out, but he seems to be impoving in Dallas.
Likewise, If Ainge had sent Perkins, Rondo, and Allen in place of Telfair, Jefferson, Gomes and Green to the Wolves for KG we would all be wondering if you could really build a franchise around Rondo while the rest of them would look like role players.
I agree, but it doesn’t change my opinion that all of these players were quality picks made by Ainge, again regardless of whether they’re in Minny or Boston
But, Ainge, Like McHale, was able to stockpile a bunch of draft picks to make the trade. There is Quality in Quantiy. You just have to find it.
Agreed. The difference is that Ainge was able to find it, McHale wasn’t.
The difference btw McHale and Ainge is not that great if you consider the quantity of picks Ainge had over a short period of time.
Not sure if I agree that McHale had significantly more picks, I’ll research that one. I do know that my gut tells me Ainge knows how to handle picks better than McHale.
He was about to be run out of Boston before he parlayed those picks into KG and Allen. Ohterwise it would have been a long and painful rebuilding process. QUantity is nothing if you don’t have the superstars and neither Ainge nor Mchale was lucky enough to draft the superstar. Well, McHale did, but then …
But Ainge knew when to pounce and cash in his well-earned pile of chips. He could’ve gotten AI in ‘06, but passed, maybe could’ve gotten Vince in ‘04, Baron in ’05, Pau before ’08 or many of the stars who have gone on the block. But he didn’t do any of those deals. He knew how to not panic his way through a rebuilding and proved that running him out of town would’ve been the wrong way to go.
by wyn on Dec 17, 2008 4:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, Lots of confusion as a result of haste
I dont’ want to defend McHale and I’m not, but I also would not put Ainge in a clear catagory above McHale as an evaluator of talent. Ainge was very close to being run out of Boston and was considered to have blown many chances at getting the right players with his picks. I am just going by reports. I haven’t gone over his picks and I don’t know the overall number he had, but it seems like he was able to stockpile a bunch of picks from the names you list above — just as McHale has been able to do since he traded KG. Its a formula that they have both used and neither one produced a clear cut superstar nor a competitive team until Ainge made trades for Allen and KG and scrapped his rebuilding program. It was a risky move that saved his job, but it wasn’t part of his long term plans. He was as, perhaps more, desparate than McHale and made the trade to salvage his job.
During the time Ainge was rebuilding in Boston, McHale drafted McCants, Foye, Brewer and, now, Love. None of these players is a clear bust in the NBA, although McCants is close. But, even McCants might fit in elsewhere and have a productive career. Give McHale, or hell give any GM even Me, the quantity of picks that Ainge appears to have had to land all the players you mentioned and eventually you are going to have playere who can make a career as something in the NBA.
Now, will the Wolve get players with their 4 picks this summer. No doubt they will have some intriguing talent, no matter who makes the picks. But, together with the current roster, will a Competitive roster ever get built? Not anytime soon and definately not without an impact player like KG, LEbron, Nash, Paul, etc either among the 4 or negotiating a trade that brings in the four.. Some of us thought Jefferson might be that player going into this year, but he clearly is not now.
by Andy B on Dec 17, 2008 4:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the pick comparison
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p04two3w1E2baG81ANekYew
Haven’t done a count. I think we’ll have agree to disagree for now, I need to get back to work :)
by wyn on Dec 17, 2008 5:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
You didn’t have to go through all that trouble. :)
I’ll admit that the McHale should be strung up fo rhte Ebi pick and passing over both Howard and Perkins. No excuse.
And I forgot that Gomes was taken so late in the second round. But Gomes and Smith are nice picks in the second round demonstrating some ability to find a nice players amongst the lesser talents. However, neither player is that good as Wolves fans can attest to now.
My main point Ainge might be a better evaluator of talent than McHale, but I think putting him among the NBA elite is a mistake. Like McHale, Ainge looks much better than he actually is solely because of KG.
by Andy B on Dec 17, 2008 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, MN is not Boston
And Ainge works for owners in a market that could afford to surround KG with the talent he needed and also pay him the huge salaries. Taylor tried with Sam and Spree and then called it a failed experiement. McHale (God, I hate defending him) was saddled with the problem of trying to get players on the cheap to come to a market that most players didn’t want to go and he made bad trades for mediocre talent, that it could be argued was to appease Taylor’s desire not to increase the payroll beyond what was invested in KG and his devoted crew.
Ainge was not that far from trading Pierce and going in that direction, either. He could have walked away from the McHale deal if McHale had driven a little harder bargain (Rondo instead of Telfair). Still, it was a risky move that could have backfired, if not for getting a few role players last year and a relatively injury free year for the veteran trio. I admit he looks like a genius now, but he had a lot of money and market appeal to get it done.
McHale, the Timberwolves and KG had a lot of bad luck. Kg’s luck didn’t improve until he started wearign Green. McHales luck is all worn out.
by Andy B on Dec 17, 2008 4:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You mean that lovely photo from above taken while it was negative 6 wouldn't happen in Boston? ;)
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 17, 2008 5:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't want Isaiah near my daughter as well...
yeah, he’s been okay at some of that, but where has he been able to take those decent picks and build them into a contender? Toronto? Indiana? New York? Nada. They’ve all sent him packing, with pleasure.
Look at the Wolves talent. The problem is not that they don’t have any, but that it’s overvalued. A lot of these guys are situational role players who could come off the bench and give a good 5-15 minutes of effort, then sit back down and let the core players take over. They aren’t core players though, at least right now.
by Peter W on Dec 17, 2008 7:48 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
And, if Stack truly believes LBJ and Bosh are coming here...
I want those hallucinogens! Now!
I have to believe he’s saying that for the fans benefit.
by Peter W on Dec 17, 2008 7:49 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think we need to organize an intervention...
….with Stack. First traveling back in time to Jesus, then Alicia, and now 2 maxed out free agents. I guess I’d smoke a ton of weed too if I worked for the Wolves. Although this is more shroomy than anything else.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 17, 2008 8:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
PS:
I’d like to say I believe he’s saying it for the fans benefit, but with this crew…well, I think they’re true believers.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 17, 2008 8:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also...
…if this is just to placate the fans, it’s their biggest piece of bulls$%t yet.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 17, 2008 8:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Stack is the enemy
That is beyond stupidity. The Boston ‘system’ is really the only chance this team has for bringing in a star that they don’t draft. It isn’t easy but who said it was supposed to be.
New York, LA and Miami are the supposed great destinations who have this big free agent pull. Look at their current rosters are show me how they’ve created winners with free agency. EVEN THOSE TEAMS can’t do it. Two teams in recent memory have got a major star via free agency. Shaq to the Lakers because he wanted to be in Hollywood and Nash to the Suns and people didn’t realize what a big deal that was at the time.
How’d the free agent bonanza work for the Clippers and Sixers? STUPID STUPID STUPID
by Pants_ on Dec 17, 2008 8:10 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget the Carlos Boozer Shadiness...
But I agree with your general point. The Wolves should not be thinking they’re going buy their stars. (Nor should almost any team, really; as we’re noting, this isn’t a Minnesota inferiority complex talking, there’s only a small number of teams who have ever made a massive FA splash: LA, Phoenix, and Orlando…)
The Wolves need to look at Portland for their model…
by jianfu on Dec 17, 2008 7:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also..
…just to answer one of Wyn’s questions, the NBA does have in its history an example where a free agent helped win a championship. The league rewrote the free agency rules so that Shaq could go to LA. Hooray NBA!!!
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 17, 2008 8:18 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I was afraid someone would come up with that :)
I think Detroit signed Chauncey as a free agent too. But Rip and Sheed were acquired via trade, and Tay was drafted.
by wyn on Dec 17, 2008 8:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, it's clear that they need a new front office
regime—this crew has had enough time to show its ineptitude. And no, Lebron is not coming here. However, I wouldn’t sneer at cap space and the ability to sign free agents—depending on other teams’ cap situations, there might be good things that could be done, either through free agency or trades as we approach 2010.
The only example I can remember of a team that a) had enough capspace to sign more than 1 max free agent, and b) actually did so is Orlando, summer 2000, It’s hard to say that worked—the team didn’t really get better. McGrady emerged as one of the top players in the league, but of course Grant Hill got hurt and never was a factor for the Magic.
Of course you are right—they have to get better at drafting—something that obviously requires a new front office. it’s not as if they have the rumored talented young core. Still, better to have the cap space than not—it gives them more flexibility to potentially stumble onto players that are a better combination than this terrible crew.
by Eric in Madison on Dec 17, 2008 9:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Point taken.
You’re right that cap space is nothing to brush off. Using it to take a star off of a struggling team’s hands, re-signing your own players with ruining your cap structure, or signing those role player free agents are the best ways to use IMO. A second place reason to all those three (does that make it 4th place?) is going after a major free agent.
And yes, the free agent crop of 2010 may produce some significant and unexpected player movement, but I think the turnover will really be a lot smaller than we all expect. It almost always is.
by wyn on Dec 17, 2008 9:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We should overpay a top executive, not a top free agent...
… I said this before: identify the decision-maker you want and make him an offer he can’t refuse. Complete freedom to make the moves he wants, and a lot of money for his trouble. This would be the quickest way for Taylor to use his money to build a winner. I’m not sure who the perfect candidate would be, or even who would be acceptable, but how disappointing will it be if we go into next season with Freddy as GM and a no-name (i.e., cheap) assistant coach as our new head coach, who may or may not be a good NBA head coach,
by Shogun on Dec 17, 2008 9:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think a point lost in all of the 2010 hoopla...
…is that the league might be shut down at that point. Hell, they may have to contract a few teams the way things are going.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 17, 2008 9:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and i mean labor shut down not the league closing its doors because of finances...
…they may have to contract a few teams, but not close the league
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 17, 2008 9:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It runs through 10/11...
…and the league has an option to extend 1 year but the way some of these arenas are looking, and with the way some teams are trying to dump payroll for 10, my guess is that they negotiate before it comes to a head.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 17, 2008 10:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
other then baseball
I can’t think of one example where a championship was built off off of free agents.
the Celtics of last year where built almost exclusively around trades (paul pierce was the only starter drafted by boston), and while they did sign a large number of free agents last year, they were primaraly role players. all 5 starters were either aquired thrugh teh draft of by trades with other teams.
for the T-Wolves, we don’t have a lot of desirable pieces, but we do have a large number of draft picks coming up, this is the key to us building a contender. we must either make wise selections or trade the picks (along with other peices) to do a sign and trade for one of those 2010 bonanza players.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Dec 17, 2008 9:50 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
those examples being
the Hankies of the early 2000’s and the 2 florida marlins teams. but even the marlins are good at drafting talant to replace all the players they fire sale off.
we are best off finding what pieces we have that have value, trading them for things that can improve our team, (either more picks or one cornerstone type player) and build from their. but the first thing we need is a quality front office with an eye towards talant analysis. so we can target good trades and quality draft picls.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Dec 17, 2008 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
baseball is different because
they don’t operate with a salery cap that has any meaning.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Dec 17, 2008 9:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Any idea which worthwhile basketball minds might be movable?
… I just don’t know enough about front office personnel to give an informed argument on this. But I do agree with Wyn that this is the most important thing for the future of the franchise.
by Shogun on Dec 17, 2008 10:03 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
No clue...
….this is one area where I don’t have any opinion at all. I do like the idea of a tested head hunter coming in and doing the dirty work for Taylor however.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 17, 2008 10:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"….this is one area where I don’t have any opinion at all."
Whaaaa?!?!?! :)
I’ll come up with some names today… unless my job gets in the way. Which it will.
by wyn on Dec 17, 2008 11:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, wyn...
… looks like we’ve finally found a deficiency in the hoopus base’s knowledge. ;)
It’s an important enough strategic issue for the Wolves that I’m guessing it won’t remain that way for long.
by Shogun on Dec 17, 2008 11:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Can I tell you who I don't want?
:)
Trent Tucker is on KFAN right now dropping hints all over the place that he would like to be in the front office. No. Thank. You. Whoever gets this has to have front office experience on a winning club. I’m not so sure they can wait much longer the way this thing is going. They need to make a move but I they can’t really make a move unless they have an idea of who the coach and GM are going to be. I think we’re stuck with the Triangle of Non-Accountability with Stack, Babcock, and Hoiberg. They’ll bring in Sam Mitchell and…well, it’s not going to change. I’d be interested to see what the state of this team is in late January if they only have something like 6 wins. Nobody will be going to those games. They will have brought their already limited trade value down to nothing. If they’re waiting until the end of the year to make a big time front office overhaul, fine…I can live with that. If they plan on taping this thing up with Stack, Babcock, Hoiberg and a coach to be named later, sorry. I think I’m done if that’s the case. Time to find a new franchise that I can actually watch all of their games on League Pass with.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 17, 2008 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus...
…there’s always the Minnesota Swarm ;)
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 17, 2008 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good points...
… I don’t want Trent Tucker having anything to do with the franchise. He was entertaining as an announcer, but that doesn’t qualify him to run an NBA franchise. He should be angling for a recruiting/assistant coaching job for Tubby. He could learn a lot as his apprentice and maybe get a shot at a good college coaching job.
I almost renounced my Timberwolves fanhood after the Mayo trade, and it remains possible that I’ll do so in the future, especially if they maintain the status quo + Sam Mitchell. I live in northern California, and that’s close enough to Portland to catch some of the excitement that they’re building there. At least then I could claim that Brandon Roy is a member of “my team.”
by Shogun on Dec 17, 2008 12:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
When we had KG...
Tucker was always yammering about trading for veterans. He’d be like Isaiah trading for the Marbury and Francises of the world to “win now”.
by Pants_ on Dec 17, 2008 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Although...
…if I remember correctly, he advocated trying to trade Al Jefferson + Foye to the Bulls for a bloated salary and their #1 pick and then taking Rose and Mayo as the backcourt of the future. I think that’s a bit pie-in-the-sky, but it certainly would have been interesting. Still, even though I like In the Zone as it’s the only reliable source of hoops talk on the fan outside of H Lake, count me out on Double T.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 17, 2008 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Former Wolves Color Commentators
make great GMs. Billy McKinney and Mchale paved the way. It only makes sense that if we get rid of Stack, Hoiberg and Babcock that we replace them with Tucker, J-Pete and Mycal Thompson.
by Andy B on Dec 17, 2008 3:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No time to waste
They need to do something to shake the team up. Any one of the following would be fine with me: Get a shooter who will / can actually shoot. Get a slasher that can kick it out to Miller or anyone else who can shoot. Get someone who can help defensively on the perimeter or in the paint. Do something.
No one should be untradeable. At this point, I’m not sure we can or should move AJ, but everyone else should be available. We need to get Miller more looks so that his trade value actually goes up. I have no doubt that if we actually start running some plays for him, he may actually get open shots. He’s done it before.
But, of course, there’s that minor problem of that there’s a total vacuum in the decision making process, in that there’s no one actually capable of making these decisions. It boggles my mind that Taylor would hold McHale accountable (if he actually did) for the crappy state of the team and then not move quickly to put someone in place to start fixing his mistakes. I want to find someone from outside the club, and I recognize that will take some time. But waiting until the end of the year will be akin to buying out ratliff — another wasted opportunity. We need to shake up the roster, we have some tradeable assets, and watching these guys get blown out every 2nd half isn’t any fun. Something else has to give. Here’s hoping a new GM is coming for Xmass. I doubt it, but I’m desperate.
by Sterno on Dec 17, 2008 12:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Mike Miller, or why a rural South Dakotan shouldn't try urban wear.
Did you guys see the pimp hat Miller was wearing the other night during his post-game interview? Did he think it was Halloween, or is he the worst, most confused dresser in the NBA? I’m pretty sure he has his own line of hideous “urban wear.”
http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/stories/2008/02/11/tidbits1.html
The MM33 clothing link in that article doesn’t appear to be working, so maybe the “miracle” of the free market selected out Miller’s clothes as unsalable.
by Shogun on Dec 17, 2008 12:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
his suits are just as bad
one of them was anyway. I pray he doesn’t get injured just so I don’t have to see them. ;)
by plinytheelder on Dec 17, 2008 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't he wearing canary yellow and electric blue suits...
…while down with his ankle injury? I needed sunglasses just to look over at the bench.
by Shogun on Dec 17, 2008 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wish he'd shoot more, but
I ain’t got no problem with Miller’s choice of suits or hats. I think the NBA and urban kids could use a little South Dakota influence in their dressing.
Miller has a very unique look from his hair to his clothes. I’m not going to knock him for looking a little offbeat. I am actually a fan of his offbeat looks. He’s from South Dakota and I like that he’s not afraid to look a little different.
by Andy B on Dec 17, 2008 3:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Trade Speculation
Over on The Rake (I refuse to call it Secrets of the City), “Jim” has proposed an interesting trade between MN and LAC. SnP has correctly pointed out that any move that would involve Love is unlikely because it would require the front office admitting its mistakes, but I could imagine this trade helping both teams.
Jim’s text below:
“How about Love, Miller and McCants for Kamen and Eric Gordan? We gain two unquestionably talented young starting players who fit their positions and the Clippers get veteran shooting and a young big man. This trade works for both teams. It adds an exciting young player in Gordon who is explosive going to the hoop and has shootnig range as good as anyone in the league in addition to a legit center to pair with Jefferson.”
by Shogun on Dec 17, 2008 12:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm actually happier trading Lord Jeff
I think this team has even less chemistry than it has talent. Jefferson is more talented than Love, but his impatient scowls haven’t helped matters at all. If they’re not going to surround Jefferson with serviceable veterans (i.e. Hinrich, Wallace, etc.), then trade him for the best possible 1,2,3 or 5 and make Love the 4 of the future. Then draft for need from Griffin, Thabeet, Curry, Rubio, Jennings next year. If in 2010 a player at a needed position is deserving of max-level money and and wishes to come to Cold Omaha, then sign him.
by PoorDick on Dec 17, 2008 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think they could actually...
…get value from Jefferson at this point. They sold KG for pennies on the dollar and I think Jefferson could be used to bring in a nice player. How about Jefferson + Miller to the Clips for Kaman and Gordon and the return of the #1 pick?
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 17, 2008 2:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess the difference in the two deals would mean...
…. assuming that the first round pick that we would get back would be better than the difference in ability between Kevin Love and Al Jefferson. I like Love, but I think he’s always going to struggle to get high quality shots in the low box because of his height/athleticism. I like having Jeff down there. Having Kaman and Love next to each other might be redundant too, as each is a rebounding specialists in sort of the same manner as the other. Unless we were confident that the pick we’d be getting back would be in the top 10, I’d probably rather do Jim’s deal. But throwing in Jefferson is interesting to think about.
by Shogun on Dec 17, 2008 2:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's one big area...
…where I think the Wolves are really, really, really flawed: you don’t build around a 4 or 5. I’m not sure if this has anything to do around small ball, but it’s like building a team around a running back. Jefferson compounds the problem by being so imbalanced. He’s every bit the liability as Love is on defense and his offense requires the rest of the team to grind to a halt. This team needs real perimeter players. I didn’t think Mayo would be it but…well, that’s past. I just don’t think Jefferson is as valuable as we think he is in terms of overall success for this team…now and in the future.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 17, 2008 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve tried to watch more of Mayo—like last night against New Orleans, and I actually think he’s the exact type of guard that should play next to a low-block scorer. He has the slow-down, half-court mentality and makes REALLY TOUGH dribble jumpshots with very strong moves. He’s not a finesse, cute passer, or anything but just the kind of guy you can go to war with in a 2-man game. I think Ricky Rubio (if he really is a Steve Nash-type) would be a bad fit in a Jefferson offense. He’d want to dribble all over the place and set up jumpshooters and running big men (an exciting style, but not a good fit for a low-block scorer). Al Jeff needs a Sam Cassell to savor the half-court sets and make the jumpers with a hand in his face.
by Andy G on Dec 17, 2008 2:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I saw a bit of the MEM/NO game last night
and Mayo had a fantastic block against Paul.
by wyn on Dec 17, 2008 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You don't build around a 4 or 5
Just like the Spurs didn’t, or Boston didn’t, or the three-peat Lakers didn’t. Certainly Houston in the mid-90s didn’t.
Going back to the mid-80s, you have two of the worst champions ever (Detroit and Miami, who really should have lost to 7-foot Nowitzki), and the Bulls led by Jordan and the Pistons led by Isiah. So really, it should say you don’t built around a 4 or 5 when you have a top-20 of all time player on your team.
Bear in mind that I’m absolutely not disagreeing about the dire need for quality wings on the Wolves.
by McCleak on Dec 17, 2008 6:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Duncan and Shaq are top 20 all time players...
….and even they needed Kobe, Manu, and TP. This is a wing player/guard league and it has been for quite some time. I don’t think you can win anymore without an upper-level perimeter player. You need that more than anything else.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 17, 2008 7:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I really don't think Shaq needed Kobe for those three
The man averaged a 30/15, which is just nuts. And Duncan didn’t need Manu and Parker for the first two championships (and probably the third, as I seem to remember Manu slipping in the last two series).
by McCleak on Dec 17, 2008 8:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Shaq was definitely..
….the best player in the world during that run.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 17, 2008 9:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He was MJ dominant during that time
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 17, 2008 9:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hadn't realized there were headhunters for the NBA
- can you give me an example of how they found someone? (I’m not doubting, just trying to learn.)
Kevin Pritchard moved up from within the Blazer organization. He was a scout with the Spurs when he was hired as Portland’s Director of Player Personnel. Towards the end of his first season he was named interim coach when Mo Cheeks was let go. Although he had head coaching experience in the ABA I don’t think he was ever considered a candidate for the coaching job (and probably didn’t want it.) Then he was promoted to Ass’t GM and then Acting GM before being named GM early in 2007. Another GM with Spurs’ experience is Sam Presti with the Thunder. Even though they haven’t come together yet he seems to be highly respected. As you are coming up with names you might check resumes for experience with the Spurs under Buford. (Not just my opinion.)
As far as coaching … tell me why Dwane Casey was fired and how did the fans feel about it? Did he get a long enough trial? He was an assistant under Nate McMillan in Seattle and they are still tight. I thought of him when I read the comments in Secrets of the City about the Wolves not knowing how to play as a team. They seem to need a coach to take them back to the fundamentals, something McMillan has done admirably with the Blazers. It almost seems like Casey would be a good fit at the moment, but since I don’t know his history there perhaps it is blasphemy. If so, my apologies. As an emerging supporter of the Wolves I have lots to learn ; please be patient with me.
by jorga on Dec 17, 2008 1:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think..
…the headhunter thing is just a way to remove the decision making processes of building a new front office from a guy (Taylor) who doesn’t appear to be very good at that sort of thing. I guess you could call it a consultant; someone from outside the organization who will come in and have complete control over hiring/firing new front office staff and then who will step aside and let the new team operate.
Dwayne Casey was stabbed in the back with a shiv and thrown out in the cold. It was an unforgivable offense on the part of McHale and it really marked the first time, for me, that I knew McHale was going to absolutely run the team into the ground in order to place the blame on anyone but himself. He was fired while coaching a lottery-bound team with Marc Blount and Ricky Davis to a 20-20 record. It is rumored that Taylor wanted him gone because he had “lost” the bench. Whatever the reason, it was FUBAR’d beyond all belief and it provided a template for hypocrisy for the firing of any McHale/Taylor-picked coach from here on out. He was regarded as being too loosey-goosey, which was why they put in the disciplinarian Wittman….who has been replaced by the loosey-goosey McHale. It’s all a big joke.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 17, 2008 2:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Casey did
not get a fair shot. that team was not great, He was doing the best he could with not a lot of talant, and they replaced him with a head coash who was a career “loser.” I don’t know enough about him as a coach to say if he would be a good fit to lead the team on the court again though. and even if Taylor offered him a contract, Im not sure he would sing it. plus I think taylor is still paying him, so that probably wouldn’t be necissary.
As for next years coach, I am most in favor of bringing back Flip Saunders. Winningst coach in team history, and still young enough to get it done. and since he still has ties to the community, he might just be willing to come back.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Dec 17, 2008 5:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Stack’s “one or two max free agents” follows my prediction. Given that there’s only a tiny number of players genuinely worth that sort of investment and yet we’ll likely have too many teams out there with space to accommodate them, we’re going to see some really bone-headed contracts given out. Mike Miller must be licking his chops.
This assumes the economic rut is on the upswing by then.
Of course, wouldn’t it be fitting if the new CBA severely limits contracts as a reaction to down times? Remember, guys like Lebron and Wade intentionally avoided signing max deals after their rookie contracts expired because they had an eye towards becoming free agents in 2010, when a new CBA would be drawn up. Their assumption/gamble was the new CBA would be more lucrative than the current one.
by jianfu on Dec 17, 2008 7:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

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