Game Recap: Wolves 90, Bobcats 100
via d.yimg.com
That was gross.
When asked why he turned to Cardinal, Wittman said: "I knew he was going to go in there and do what we were supposed to do defensively. Same with Kevin."
Ollie disagreed.
"Our young guys can follow the game plan," he said. "We're trying to find a combination out there that works. We've got to follow the game plan a little bit better. That's collectively, that's not veterans over young guys. It's all of us together. We're in this together."
I made a rookie mistake at the game’s start and took just one pen with me to the press seating area near the top of the first deck at what used to be called Bobcats Arena. Of course, the pen ran out immediately. Halfway through the first quarter, I went back downstairs and followed the maze of hallways underneath toward the press room. As I turned into the corner, I literally ran into Michael Jordan, one of the Bobcats’ owners. He was wearing, of course, a really nice suit (gold, I think) and looks like he has gained quite a bit of bulk since his playing days.
"There are going to be nights you don’t have it offensively," coach Randy Wittman said. "If you don’t continue to do things at both ends of the floor, then you can’t play. I’ve got to find people to play."
Wittman's starting to call out his players. That's either a sign of a coach worried about his job or of players tuning him out. Or both.
UPDATE
This trey has not been kind to Wittman. Quite frankly, it is much easier to criticize him right now than to find positive signs. No doubt Kevin McHale is compiling his own ledger of positives and negatives as he follows the team. But let's keep some perspective here. McHale engineered the ouster of Flip Saunders after he judged that Flip could no longer handle a roster that included Garnett, Sprewell, Cassell, Szczerbiak, etc. Then he replaced Dwane Casey because he didn't feel Casey's 20-20 record and 8th seed standing in the playoff race demonstrated enough consistency with a roster that included Garnett, Davis, Blount, McCants, etc. Now the pressure is inevitably mounting on Randy Wittman because McHale has stated that a roster with Jefferson, Miller, Foye, Gomes, etc. should win 40 games this season.
It sure didn't look like a 90-point game. The Timberwolves had eight turnovers in the first quarter alone, and though Randy Foye (23 points, four assists) led the Wolves in scoring, he's still having a hard time balancing his passing and shooting instincts unless he's being guarded by someone named "Allen Iverson." There are only a few of those guys, and only one of them plays in the NBA. So he's got some work to do.
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Comments
I’m starting to have Mayo regret. I still like the Love for Mayo deal, I think Love will be a really good player, though the ease with which guards score on him in the lane – like Felton in the 4th quarter last night, shooting a right-handed layup over him from the left side of the basket (!) – is disconcerting. But I find it ironic that neither of the 2 guys we have at that position, Foye and McCants, seem as good as Mayo. Foye has obviously been better over the last 7-8 games or so, and as I’ve said before I quite like his game. But can anyone really imagine him putting the team on his back and saying “give me the ball” like Mayo is supposedly doing? Granted, Memphis is terrible, and maybe I’m wrong. I’d just like to see Foye, when he’s having a pretty good shooting/driving night, like last night, tell people to give him the ball and get the hell out of the way. Maybe that’s just not his mindset.
by plinytheelder on Dec 2, 2008 9:44 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
The only thing that keeps me sane...
is my belief that is Mayo was here he’d be so mismanaged that we’d be having Love regret. Wait… that makes me just as insane.
by Pants_ on Dec 2, 2008 10:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed--
we’d be ruining mayo too. it’s no coincidence that all of our young talent is afflicted by the same underachieving mentality, the same inconsistency, the same lack of confidence. the only exception is shad, whose overabundance of “confidence” is probably just a mechanism for coping with the same managerial incompetence that makes everyone else gun shy and skittish.
don’t give up on love yet! he’s just turning the corner from his slump…
by secretarykissinger on Dec 2, 2008 11:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Any time...
you have a chance to get your hands on a potential star, you do it. That is why we messed up. A lot of people projected this for Mayo. A lot of people projected what we’re seeing in Love as well. Even if Love pans out to be a good player, I would rather have Mayo than a good Kevin Love and a good Mike Miller. Solid players are a lot easier to find then potential studs…..
by wolfen on Dec 2, 2008 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One thing to remember
is that OJ Mayo is currently involved with 23.4% of all Memphis plays. That’s higher than any Timberwolf. Love is only getting in on 10.3% of the Wolves plays, as a contrast. Mayo is playing about twice as often as Love. 42 would almost certainly be holding a double double right now if he had Mayo’s playing time.
by McCleak on Dec 2, 2008 9:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wolves Draft Picks
I don’t disagree that Wittman and Casey have misused their young players, but I also strongly believe that in each draft McHale has drafted the wrong player. I don’t buy the argument that Roy, Mayo, Granger, Thad Young, et al, wouldn’t be high-quality players for the Timberwolves. The problem is, we have Foye, Love, McCants, and Brewer instead. If you swapped our guys onto the Blazers, Grizz, Pacers, and 76ers, I have serious doubts that they’d be doing nearly as well as the guys we passed on/traded. I was a Mayo guy on draft night, and it really pains me to see him doing so well for Memphis. I know that it’s too early to make a final judgment about the trade, but I think a lot of Wolves fans are in denial about how it appears to be turning out. Hopefully I’m wrong, because we could use a bigger impact from Love.
by Shogun on Dec 2, 2008 12:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I doubt Mayo would put up quite the caliber of stats in MN that he gets in Memphis (at least as a rookie), but that’s more because of the way we (I guess by we, I mean Casey and then Wittman) treat rookies and the way Jefferson would have his head if he took too many shots. Still, he would look more physically impressive than Love and would fit a huge need, by being a two-way backcourt player.
As things currently stand with Love, it looks highly improbable that he’ll ever mesh offensively OR defensively with Jefferson. The odds of both happening are really, really low.
by Andy G on Dec 2, 2008 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it’s an interesting exercise trying to imagine what a mayo-wittman composite might produce. probably he’d be averaging 22 points a game and wittman would be browbeating him for not getting to the foul line enough.
by secretarykissinger on Dec 2, 2008 11:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The chips to seem...
to be stacked against a Love/Al front court, but I still remain hopeful that a line up in the mold of
PG: ?Felton/Rubio?
SG: Foye/Curry
SF: A Rashard Lewis type athletic and can shoot… Gerald Wallace would be a adequate. (i.e. what the Wolves thought they were getting in Brewer)
PF1: Jeff
PF2: Love
The above line up would need a star at either PG or SF to be a legit contender.
by Pants_ on Dec 2, 2008 2:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts...
1. McCants?!?!. Didn’t he used to be a decent basketball player? I am very close to giving up on him. And to think I suggested trying him in the starting lineup. He is the epitomy of an emotional me player. And one that can’t hit shots. At least if he was hitting shots he would be bearable, but he’s missing AND turning it over AND not passing.
2. Brewer – I think we’re going to miss him more than we realize. The closest thing we had to an athletic player who could do a lot of different things well.
3. Wittman – I really don’t think he coached to win the game, period. Sat Al and Telfair for long periods and played Cardinal and Ollie for long stretches. Ouch. Cookie monster should have played more as well.
4. Rotation – slim it down. Foye/Miller/Gomes/Love/Big Al with Telfair and Smith as the main subs. Throw in Collins when needed. Try to unload McCants for something. Keep Ollie, Cardinal, and McCants on the bench (and booth and madson of course).
5. Carney – Throw in Carney in there more and more, but tell him the only shot he can take is a drive to the hoop or a finish on a fast break. It’s a shame he doesn’t have an offensive game because he’s got such physical gifts.
6. Give Foye the reigns. The offense should go through both he and big Al. Let Randy penetrate and either dish or score. Use him on pick and rolls, especially with Love, as Love needs to develop that pick and pop game. Keep Foye in there at the 2 when Telfair comes in. Right now we have no offense unless Foye is in there.
by wolfen on Dec 2, 2008 3:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
brewer-
not to mention that he was the only dude playing defense!
we’ve got to make some personnel moves here or there’s going to be trouble. someone’s going to get mccants for pennies on the dollar and i’m super curious to see what transplanting him to more fertile soils might do. perhaps it will leave those soils barren too, who knows.
by secretarykissinger on Dec 2, 2008 11:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I for one think that Carney might be able to fill the Brewer gap quite nicely, not as good as Brew, but still good. If only he’d get a shot at it…
by Wim (Belgium) on Dec 3, 2008 4:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just to clarify,
I’m happy the Wolves took Love over Mayo, I might be wrong but I think we need more time to see how each of these guys turn out. What I was trying to say in my comment above is that it’s ironic that MN has taken 2 guys at that position recently, 3 if you count Brewer, and Mayo seems like he might already be better than all of them.
Isn’t it ironic
Don’t you think
It’s like rain
On your wedding day
by plinytheelder on Dec 2, 2008 10:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Mayo v Love
Looking at their record and their stats, I’m not sure Mayo has made Memphis a much better team. Obviously Love hasn’t made us better, but Mayo’s superior #s are directly a result of how many touches he gets and how bad the rest of the team is (particularly their PGs). Note also that his assist/TO ratio is about 1, meaning he certainly wouldn’t have solved our PG issues.
Love went through a rough stretch, and he’s now playing better. I wish he got all of collins’ minutes, but Collins will help against the Shaqs/Howards of the world who are just too big.
Finally, given all the minutes he’s played, I’m curious to see what it will be like when Mayo hits the “rookie wall.”
And Foye has shown signs. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The influx of quality PGs such as Rose, Paul, Wiliams, etc. have made it look like becoming a top-flight PG is something that you’re born with. Obviously that’s true for some folks, but for others, like Billups, it’s something you grow into. I think we’ll have to see where Foye is at the end of the year and if he’s consistently putting up 16-6-5 and getting the ball to Jefferson and Miller, then I’m beginning to think it will be a success. Can we win a championship with him as our lead guard? Doubtful. But they will have actually developed a player that they drafted, which will be an accomplishment.
What I really want to see from him is better defense. Ever since Billups got him in foul trouble, it seems to me he’s been less aggressive. It will be interesting to see how he handles D. Harris, who’s been on fire recently.
by Sterno on Dec 3, 2008 7:42 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Funny thing about the trade...
is that it might have been bad for both teams.
Memphis:
Conley
Miller
Gay
Love
Gasol
Minnesota
Mayo
Foye
Gomes
Jefferson
Madsen/some other stiff we pick up in free agency or minor trade
I think Kevin Love would fit in really well next to a bruiser like Marc Gasol, and he wouldn’t take the ball out of Rudy Gay’s hands, the way that Mayo does. For Minnesota, we’d still need to find a center (but we do anyway, even with the trade…unless you think Collins is a long-term solution) but we’d have a Mayo-Foye backcourt with Jefferson down low.
by Andy G on Dec 3, 2008 8:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've never thought about it that way before...
…but I think it’s definitely closer to the truth than saying that Mayo is going to help Memphis. They’re a 4 win team just like the Wolves. I still think Love is going to be a fantastic player. I think he’ll be a better 2 way player at the 4 by the end of the year than Big Al.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 3, 2008 8:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
not JUST LIKE the Wolves...
Memphis has 4 wins, while starting three rookies, a second-year player and a third-year player. Minnesota has 4 wins and starts Mike Miller and Al Jefferson, who are supposed to be high-quality veterans.
They have gone all-in on building for the future, whereas we’re not sure what we’re doing… looking around at the top rookies, Rose gets to play with Ben Gordon and Luol Deng, Beasley gets to play with D-Wade and Marion, Oden gets to play with Roy and Aldridge, and Love gets to play with Al Jefferson and Mike Miller. OJ’s the only one who has basically been handed a team. 4 wins isn’t a LeBron-like rookie performance, but he’s exceeded just about everybody’s expectations. He looks like a savvy veteran out there, already putting up numbers and looking pretty good doing it. There’s no way that a starting five with three years combined experience is going to win games. Nobody can pin that on OJ.
by Andy G on Dec 3, 2008 9:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're right...
…about him being thrown the lot, but I think what you see already is what you’ll get with Mayo. He’ll be a high volume guy on a bad/mediocre team for his entire career.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 3, 2008 9:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gay is taking 17.6 shots per game and Mayo is taking 17.8 shots per game. Look over the Memphis roster and see if that seems too high, for either. Mayo is hitting 46.4% of his shots and 38.8% of his threes. There is no way to get around the fact that he’s on a ridiculously young team that is only going to get better. Just because OJ takes shots doesn’t make him a loser of a player. He’s the best scorer on his team and it’s the best way to help his team win. It would be like saying Jefferson is a high volume guy (shoots slightly more often than Mayo) on bad mediocre teams for his entire career. It might prove to be true, but it will depend on his teammates and coaches more than just his role as a scorer. Being a scorer is a positive—perhaps the most positive—characteristic that an NBA player can have. Being an efficient scorer like Mayo is even better.
What we should all hope is that what we see is NOT what we get, with Love. Because, what we’ve seen, is an overmatched player whose physical tools won’t ever allow him to be better than average. It just seems unbelievable to me that people can still feel good about that trade…it’s not about stats or situations, or even minutes-played…it’s about the visual evidence through a handful of games that show one guy looking like a future all-star and another looking like a career reserve.
by Andy G on Dec 3, 2008 10:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm guilty of a bit of short hand here...
…but it’s more than simply taking shots. It’s the amount of time he has the ball in his hands and…well, we’ll just have to see how it plays out. He’s had a nice start and it will be interesting to see if he can maintain it and if it eventually affects his team’s w-l record.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 3, 2008 10:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I still defend Corey Brewer against Al Thornton and Thad Young—and I waited until very recently to stop defending Foye against Roy, so I understand your position, and with Love-Mayo, we’re only 15 or so games deep. I just opposed the deal on draft night, so it’s easy for me to pounce on the early results. Obviously, I hope Love becomes a great player here, and at times, I’ve liked what I’ve seen. But, like with Telfair and Brewer, I often feel like I’m trying to convince myself of things, rather than actually seeing them on the floor. I think Love needs to do something about his body, or conditioning…whatever can help him gain a little bit of hop in his step. Also, he needs some sort of game plan or position that works better with Jefferson. In the short-term, I just wish he’d see more minutes.
by Andy G on Dec 3, 2008 10:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I definitely feel...
…what you’re saying. Having been burned so many times before by this team I feel like Charlie Brown getting ready to kick a football with my support of the Love deal.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 3, 2008 10:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It comes back to the front office, doesn't it?
To me, the Love v. Mayo thing will play out over many years. If Memphis makes a Portland-like leap next year, and Love isn’t starting and averaging 14-10-3, then we can call it another Foye-Roy disaster. However, I’m skeptical that Mayo really IS that good (i.e., really better than an average 2 guard if he were on a good team). He doesn’t have the assist/To that Roy does and in the end wins and losses are what matter and he hasn’t helped there.
I also think that looking at the trade mano-v-mano is unfair, since I think the Wolves really got the better end of the rest of the deal — better players AND better contracts. So we supposedly got more flexibility down the road AND some expiring contracts that are assets in and of themselves. To SnP’s most recent post, if you have even a halfway competent FO, you would feel good about this — swap Miller for Wally’s expiring deal, use your draft picks and the cap space in 09 to get a real influx of talent, and settle Gomes, Telfair & Smith into their rightful place as role players and/or benchwarmers.
However, anyone who’s followed this franchise since 04 is justified in having ZERO confidence in the organization, from top to bottom. Since we aren’t getting a new owner in this economic climate, the next highest head should roll (really he should fall on his sword, since I’m using a lot of metaphors).
by Sterno on Dec 3, 2008 10:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be overjoyed...
…with the following trade:
To the Cavs:
Mike Miller
Rashad McCants
Brian Cardinal
To the Wolves:
Wally
Eric Snow
Cardinal clears the books before Lebron’s big year and they get McCants. I’d try to get their 1st rounder but this would be more about clearing 09 cap space and roster filler than anything else. That’s $16.5 off the books next year. That puts them under $30 with the cap and in very good shape to sign a free agent. I’d also get on the horn to the Bulls to see if they can’t work out a Jefferson deal that involves a 1st round pick + Hinrich/Hughes + Noah/Thomas. Any combo would work for me, preferably 1st rounder + Hughes + Noah. I can’t believe it happened this quickly but when teams like Portland have a better 2nd five than the Wolves’ starting 5, I don’t think they can get too picky with who they protect. No one is watching these games anyway; they may get as many assets as possible. If they could enter next season with under 30 on the cap, 5 1st rounders, and a “core” of Foye, Brewer, Love, Gomes, and Noah…with a new front office….well, that’s about the only thing that will make me a happy camper. They’ve built a team that is 99% geared to run with a best player (on one end of the court) who is not. The rest of the core is a bunch of bench players. I’m not sure there is really even much to blow up.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 3, 2008 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We can’t press the panic button on Jefferson until he plays for a decent coach in a decent system. If Jerry Sloan or Gregg Popavich were coaching the Foye-Jefferson combo, I suspect it would look a tad more coherent and lead to a few more wins. Jefferson has shown off his skills, and they are tremendous. He just needs a team that can use them to get wins.
by Andy G on Dec 3, 2008 12:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder...
…what the internal dynamic is between the two. I saw that Foye had a quote about the team needing to stop bickering at one another and he has repeatedly been at the wrong end of Big Al’s yelling. I address the panic button issue below. I just think that if you see a fatal flaw with a team you need to correct it ASAP.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 3, 2008 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No doubt about the Foye-Jefferson problems… AJ has been out of line on many occasions, and Foye’s remarks before the Boston game about “how nice it was to play with KG, and how he’d always pick you up when you were down…” were certainly backhanded shots at Wittman and Jefferson. But, I guess my bigger point was just that we have a coach who can’t figure out how to use his players’ talents. I don’t think Foye is as talented as Deron Williams, but I bet Jerry Sloan could have him looking like a pretty damn good point guard, by now, with Jefferson being a huge beneficiary of that.
by Andy G on Dec 3, 2008 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hold your horses...
That’d be selling Jefferson for pennies on the dollar. I’m not opposed to trading Al, but I definitely believe that we could get significantly more in return. Al is putting up gaudy stats – filthy, really – that a lot of teams would covet, defensive warts and all. He has the best low post game in the NBA, and that should net more than a first rounder, a malcontent (Hughes), and another role player (Noah). Hughes’ attitude would replace Shaddy’s as the most destructive, and although I like Noah, I can’t think of many teams that would have a worse front line than Gomes/Love/Noah. Yuck.
I’d be interested in that Miller trade, though I’d like to do something that could net a first rounder. We’d have to turn the crown jewel of the Mayo trade into more than just cap space, right? Otherwise it’d just be Love for Mayo, and the 15 remaining fans would see that the Miller angle was just a bald faced lie to give McHale and excuse to play out his pre-draft infatuation with Love, and there might be an open revolt.
I agree that we don’t have much to peddle, but I’d be more open to a Love/Miller trade for Gerald Wallace. No, I haven’t checked it on the trade machine, but other pieces could be included to make the salaries match. It would solve our Jefferson/Love problem, bring us some athleticism, defense, AND offense at the three, and be a tangible return for Love/Miller. Personally, I’d have strongly considered a draft day trade of Mayo for Gerald Wallace, and I still would. (I’d probably slightly prefer Mayo because of his longer-term potential, but still, Wallace is a helluva player, and more than a role player). Maybe we could toss Shaddy into that deal to give Jordan his Tar Heel and to do addition by subtraction on our side. Just thinking aloud, here.
by Shogun on Dec 3, 2008 11:32 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
JJ Hickson
What about trading for JJ Hickson? I haven’t seen him play, even once, but I read this on Thorpe’s chat, today:
Gordon (Cleveland, Ohio): Now that JJ Hickson has been getting ample playing time he is really starting to show his potential. People forget he was one of the best players in the Summer League. He is quick for his size and can jump out the roof, pair his athleticism with his good low-post game and I think the Cavs may have an answer for their old frontcourt problem, albeit a few years from now. What do you think?
David Thorpe: (12:33 PM ET ) I love him. Just wonder if they’ll use him and Wally to get some immediate help and see if they can win it all.
Now, couple that with this idea from Bill Simmons:
"For instance, let’s say they traded Wally, J.J. Hickson and $3 million to Minnesota for Mike Miller, and $10 million worth of Brian Cardinal and Mark Madsen in 2010 … "
…and I think that sounds like a good idea. Hickson isn’t a center (I don’t think) but he sounds athletic, and we need an athletic big—whether it’s a 4 or a 5.
by Andy G on Dec 3, 2008 11:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also......
…Hickson wouldn’t be bad but he’s a more athletic (and bigger) version of the Rhino. I just don’t know where they’d put him unless they unloaded Smith. I think Shaddy and Miller are like gold for Cleveland and the Wolves should be on the horn yesterday.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 3, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe a three-way deal then...
and another team would want Hickson, and we could pick up a shot-blocking center. Who knows, but if Cleveland is ready to deal for a half-panicked run at the title, I hope we jump on it, the same way we jumped on Philly’s rush decision to clear room for Brand.
by Andy G on Dec 3, 2008 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think they have to...
….as the only way to keep Lebron is to make him have to walk away from a title….if that makes sense.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 3, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Jefferson...
…is worth more to fans than he is to anyone else in the league. Trading Miller would just be Theo Ratliff part ii. Last year McHale said “here’s what a shot blocker can do next to Big Al” right before he was released. The team then did nothing to fill this need (or plan…if it ever was one) in the off season. Again: stick. eye. poke. Jefferson will always be worth pennies on the dollar for what the Wolves bought him for. It’s like trading in a Ferrari for a Ford F-150. Yeah, you can do a few nice things with the pickup, but you had a freakin’ Ferrari before. I don’t even think this is a panic button with the guy. He’s a fantastic player and I’d love to see him stay, but he doesn’t work well with the rest of the team and I think what we see now is what you get with him forever: 20/10 and no defense or passing. Whatever the team does, they have to rebuild. Either around him with new coaches and a ton of draft picks, or without him with new coaches and a ton of draft picks. My guess is that both would take an equal amount of time.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 3, 2008 12:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Think of it this way...
Let’s say that (and I know this CAN’T happen to the Wolves, but…) we get Rubio next year, and he’s the next CP3/Steve Nash or we get DeRozan and he’s the next (pick a great athletic two guard)…
Anyway, on the slim chance that one of those things happens, would you rather have Jefferson, or Noah and Hinrich? Hinrich is roughly Foye’s equal (not in player-type, but in player-caliber), and Noah’s skill set (rebounding/intensity) is much more easily acquired than Jefferson’s skill set (low-block scoring machine). I just think we have to hold onto Jefferson—especially given his reasonable contract—until a huge offer comes in the door. And Noah-Hinrich-Mid-1stRnder is not huge at all. It just takes our only possible All-Star, and replaces him with average NBA starters. “Average NBA starters” are on every team—even the great teams—but they don’t replace the superstars, and Jefferson is much-closer to a superstar than he is an average player.
by Andy G on Dec 3, 2008 12:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hear what you're saying...
…and I think of it this way: if both of those players are available to the Wolves, they will find a way not to draft them. At this point, I’d rather have a new front office with a lot of draft picks and cap space. If they received a 1st from the Bulls with Hinrich/Hughes + Noah, I’d take the Bulls offer. If the Heat give them an additional lotto pick, they have 3 of the 1st 15 picks in the draft and 3 shots at a top 3 pick. They’re average players but so is Jefferson by his play on the defensive end of the court. It’s even worse this year.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 3, 2008 12:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
At some point, there's a line...
and I guess I just think it falls before trading Jefferson at a discount. Fire McHale. Fire Wittman. Trade McCants. Trade (others?) Draft better… … … but don’t trade Jefferson—not yet, at least. Not until he’s allowed a good opportunity to win.
by Andy G on Dec 3, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're discounting Jefferson too much...
He’s one of only a few NBA players who averages over 20 and 10, and he isn’t Zach Randolph. Yes, he’s bad at defense, but with proper coaching that might change. I don’t know if you watch the Gophers, but Lawrence Westbrook came into the program as a certified gunner who played no defense (kind of like a high school version of Bad Shaddy). He played this way the entire year he played under Monson. But when Tubby showed up, he got Westbrook to buy into the team concept and play great defense. Now Westbrook is known more as a defensive player than an offensive one, and it has paid off for the team. I’m not saying that we’re going to hire a coach who will have an impact like Tubby has had or that Al is like Westbrook, I’m just saying it’s possible. We have a very special offensive player, and I can understand how fed up you are with how the season is going (I am too), but trading him for more role players and a late lotto pick isn’t the answer. Many of close games we’ve lost this year wouldn’t have been close if Al hadn’t been scoring again and again, at least helping us stay within shouting distance of the opposition. I’m not saying he’s the only player to build around, but getting rid of him out of frustration and piecing together a team composed only of role players would be a horrible mistake, imo.
by Shogun on Dec 3, 2008 12:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I agree with what you're saying...
…but who is that coach? Where will he come from? Either the Country Club lucks into victory or it has to go. Tubby is a fantastic, fantastic college coach. Where will the Wolves coaching leader come from?
PS: I do watch the Gophs. I had season tickets while I went there before the Barn was remodeled. David Grimm’s senior year was my last season there. I went to several Clem Haskins camps and it took a while to recover from what he did to the program, but I think they have the right man for the job right now and hopefully he stays for a long time. I get the feeling that Tubby knows what a good thing he has here and that he will stay and become synonymous with the program. Every now and then I dig out my “Play Hard” shorts from the last Clem camp I went to. I was able to be a starting guard on John Thompson’s squad during that camp and it was a blast to be able to play with someone like that.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 3, 2008 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
jefferson is excellent but ill suited to contribute to the team as it is constructed, as has been pointed out above. unfortunately, he’s the great player that we have, and he is flawed and so is everything around him. watching other teams’ broadcast streams, though, you get a sense of some of the sheer admiration his offensive game inspires in people who haven’t seen him before. i don’t think we’re overrating him, we’re just not in a position to utilize him properly (cue discussion about never following through on the shot-blocking center “plan” from last year).
but furthermore, the decision never to move jefferson is ensured by the current front office makeup. mchale’s never going to send him away, given that he’s the negative imprint of the KG trade. if we trade him away, then what we have to show from that epochal event is basically gomes and telfair — basically one guy that’s borderline starter material, and as a ‘glue buy’ at that — a draft pick that we’ll screw up, and whatever pennies we’re able to recoup in a market where we’re so obviously desperate to sell. no way that that would happen, right?
by secretarykissinger on Dec 3, 2008 1:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's right...
..they’ll never move him. He has to be KG 2.0 in their minds to make this work. I guess where I’m coming from on this is that he’s good…but he’s in a position where he’ll never be utilized correctly…just like what happened with KG. This front office literally needs to be backed into a player that is upper level. The best way to do that is to horde draft picks and hope for the best.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 3, 2008 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

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