The Case for Trading Kevin Love: A FanPost by Shogun and Andy G
by Andy G on Dec 22, 2008 10:10 PM CST
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PrintWhat should the Wolves do with Al Jefferson and Kevin Love? Although most speculation has centered around Jefferson (see much of this comments section), we want to consider the possibility of trading Kevin Love.
Why trade Love? First and most importantly, Jefferson is currently the Timberwolves' best player. He is the only player on the roster who has the talent to be a top flight star in the NBA. Second, Jefferson and Love play the same position, and the high-low complement that Kevin McHale envisioned has not looked promising thus far, with Love struggling on the perimeter and struggling to get his shot off on the rare occasion when he gets the ball in the low post. Third, Jefferson's ceiling is higher. He currently averages 22 points and 11 rebounds, his defense is improving, and he is already close to becoming an All-Star. Love's ceiling, on the other hand, appears to be a top flight "glue guy" and elite rebounder. Those are good qualities, but they're less attractive than what Jefferson brings to the table. Fourth, there are concerns about Kevin Love's body composition that suggest he will struggle to stay healthy, well-conditioned, and athletic enough to be an impact player of any significant value in the long-term. By NBA power forward standards, he is soft, with big legs that do not move around with any grace. Rather than having a lean body that will mature-well as he gets older, Love already looks like an old player whose body might wear down much sooner than most. If this happens, he could end up struggling in the low post even more in the future, as his body deteriorates. To be fair, Jefferson is no Dwight Howard - notice his "cankles" - but he can spin, slide and jump with a lot more ease than Love can and will be able to navigate the low post effectively even as his athleticism diminishes further with age. Add to that the couple inches of height that Al has on Love, and the long-term potential of the two players appears to differ about as much as their current value does, with Jefferson being the much-better short--and long-term prospect.
Although trading Kevin Love would be akin to admitting the failure of the draft day trade of O.J. Mayo, the move might be the team's best chance to recoup some of the value that he still has around the NBA. He was, after all, a Top 5 pick and Pac-10 Player of the Year in 2007-08. Also, his 15-rebound games, which were helped in part by rebounding a handful of his own stuffed attempts, look good on paper and could potentially lure a willing GM into a favorable trade for the Wolves. And now that Kevin McHale has been relieved of his personnel duties, Jim Stack & Fred Hoiberg may have the flexibility to explore trade possibilities for players brought in by McHale, which never would have happened with McHale still in his job as VP of Basketball Operations.
Trading a rookie less than halfway into his first season would not be unprecedented. 40 games into his rookie season, Donyell Marshall was traded by Kevin McHale for Tom Gugliotta. Marshall struggled in those 40 games and did not appear to be the kind of NBA player the Timberwolves' management had expected when they drafted him. After being traded, Marshall never went on to play an integral role on a winning team or to make an All-Star team. Gugliotta became an integral part of the Wolves resurgence, an All-Star in 1997, and arguably the Wolves' best player until he left as a free agent in 1998.
Could the Wolves make a similar deal, trading another rookie who appears not to fit in? What could they get? Below we suggest some possible trades. We want to emphasize that these are not substantiated rumors. We simply considered trades that might be realistic possibilities and also help the Timberwolves' long-term prospects. Each of these trades involves a trading partner who is rumored to be interested in trading at least one of the named players, or one player who reportedly wants to be traded. Each trade involving Love also involves Mike Miller, who at 28 years old does not realistically figure into the Timberwolves' long-term strategic plans. Some of the trades involve Minnesota dealing a "1st Round Pick." With up to four in the 2009 Draft, that could mean the best one, or the worst one, depending on what is coming in return. Also, each trade "works" on the ESPN Trade Machine:
Clippers
Kevin Love and Mike Miller
for
Eric Gordon and Chris Kaman
Trail Blazers
Kevin Love and Mike Miller
for
Jerryd Bayless, Martell Webster, and Joel Pryzbilla
Mavericks
Kevin Love, Mike Miller, and 1st Round Pick
for
Josh Howard and Antoine Wright
Wizards
Kevin Love, Mike Miller, and 1st Round Pick
for
Caron Butler and Brendan Haywood
Warriors
Randy Foye, Mike Miller, Kevin Love, and 1st Round Pick
for
Monta Ellis, Anthony Randolph, Ronny Turiaf, and CJ Watson
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A good post . . .
. . . but I don’t see Love getting traded at all. He hasn’t demonstrated enough for any team to be willing to pay a high price, but he still has a enough upside and is sooooo young that the Wolves won’t just give him away, either.
Hindsight’s all 20/20, but I was happy the Wolves traded for him at the time. Especially with Miller included in the deal. But now it seems that “Duh—his strength is his intellect and hustle, which aren’t going to improve very much. His weakness is his lack of athleticism—which also isn’t going to improve very much.”
The teams you picked are good trading partners, with surpluses at positions the Wolves need. But unless the teams are looking for salary dump, I don’t think the current versions of Love and Miller will interest many GMs. And I still believe, sadly, that part of the motivation behind the Wolves’ “youth movement” is that they are more interested in saving money on salaries than they are in winning championships. If that’s true, it rules out players like Ellis, Butler, Howard, and Kaman.
I don’t see the Wolves trading with Portland until the Blazers are a player or two away from a championship, and need a guy from the Wolves’ roster. Otherwise, they are both young teams trying to get better (although one seems to be doing it a lot better than the other!).
Sorry to be such a drag, but I blame my pessimism on very bad coaching, a worse front office, and an iffy roster of players.
Oh, and society. I blame society, too.
yeah...
the trade proposals are admittedly optimistic, as a Wolves fan. The Butler and Howard deals might even require that we give up our top lotto pick, which is looking to be Top 5 or even Top 3. I figure if Miami’s pick is between 10 and 15, and we’re not enamored with anybody at the top of the lottery, it might be wise to use it in a trade for an All-Star and pick up a late lotto pick from the Heat on top of it.
You might be right...
… we’ll see if the Wolves management will put their money where their mouth is when their cap situation is fixed next year. If they actively pursue sign and trades for good players or try to lure free agents, it’ll be a signal that they’ve been upfront about the intentions of some recent moves intended to shed salary. But if they don’t, well, it would be just another example of Wolves false marketing.
Even if the wolves decided to start admitting mistakes, which they...
have a history of NOT doing at all costs, the other teams would never do these lopsided trades.
They might...
There’s a lot of speculation, for example, that the Mavs play better without Josh Howard. Given his antics over the past year, I could see them considering moving him for a young big for the future, a shooter who would help them right now at their weakest position (SG), a first round pick (future again). They need to think about getting some pieces so that they don’t completely collapse when Kidd retires and Dirk gets old, and this trade could help them do that. Not saying it’s going to happen; just saying it’s not impossible.
I added the tags and submitted it for SB distribution...
…FYI for all fan posts, if you add the tags and click the “submit for distribution” button at the bottom of the post it will be put on the sidebars of other SB Nation posts.
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Thanks for doing that...
… and that’s good to know re: tagging and “submit for distribution.”
I like the Clippers & Wizards trades the best. I really don’t see Portalnd trading with us and I’m not sold at all on teh Warriors people. I’m afraid Ellis may wind up doing the same thing as TB, but I could be wrong. If the FO could get the Clippers talking, that would be the best I think long term.
I am constantly amazed by my own lack of knowledge.
I personally like the Clippers trade best too...
Assuming that we’d still be a high lottery team next year and would have a good shot at Rubio or Jennings, next season’s lineup could look like this:
Rubio or Jennings/Foye
Gordon/Foye
Brewer/Gomes
Jefferson
Kaman
That’s a very solid young core whose strengths might be complementary. I’m not sure whether Gordon would be on the block anymore, though, since they traded Dunleavy favorite Cat Mobley.
Said it before,
but if you want to feel better about the Wolves, take a gander at the Clippers. If it takes 50 wins to get the 8th seed in the West this year, the Clips will have to go 42-12 the rest of the way. So they won’t be any closer to the playoffs than the Wolves, with big money committed to an aging and cranky Baron Davis, poison Zach Randolph, and fragile Chris Kaman.
If they try to get even more savvy veterans (a la Mike Miller), they’ll have to give up one or more of their young assets (Thornton, Gordon, or maybe Kaman). As hard as that is to accomplish, it’s a piece of cake compared to trying to “go young” and get rid of those hefty contracts in a hurry. And even if they do go even more “win now,” they will be screwed for decades by a lack of young talent.
A good lesson for the Wolves, and specifically Stack’s alleged willingness to “sign a max contract player or two.” Better off trying to stay just a step or two behind Portland, and wait for the other old dogs in the West to hit the “down” part of the cycle.
Trading for Howard or Butler...
is certainly a risk similar to what LAC tried with Baron and Camby. Each player is 28 years old, and it would be a “win now” move that assumes Jefferson and an All-Star perimeter forward are enough to make us relevant.
I think I agree that the LAC move is one of the better ones. Gordon is pretty clearly on a track to become better than our current guards (he probably already is) and Kaman fits a need at a reasonably young age of 26. LAC could feasibly do the deal, if they like the idea of a Thornton-Love-Jordan front line for the future. It really isn’t a bad idea, considering how different Love and Jordan are and the potential chemistry they could have as a 4-5. Plus, Thornton is a pure scorer and would probably gel nicely with a passer and shotblocker next to him.
Poor Dick...
… I definitely agree that the Clippers are in a bad place, not good enough to win now but committed to too many vets to do a full rebuilding job. That’s why they MIGHT consider this deal, as it would continue to hedge their direction between rebuilding and trying to contend now. They’d replace Gordon with Miller, who would probably be more helpful to them than Gordon in the next two years in their pursuit of wins. Yet they’d also get Love and shed Kaman, who is unnecessary now that they have Camby and are grooming DeAndre Jordan. Love would be Zach Randolph’s apprentice (a horrible, horrible person to learn from) until Randolph is inevitably traded in a year or two, by which time Love will have learned enough about how to get his shot off that he will be a capable NBA starter. But yeah, things look bleak in LA. Signing malcontents like Baron Davis, Ricky Buckets, and trading for Zach Randolph just isn’t good for morale, and it isn’t enough for a title. I don’t know what their decisionmakers were thinking.
More good points
And one of their “decisionmakers” is officially retired. Maybe Dumbleavy can be convinced that Zach can learn a thing or two from Love.
Hollinger on Mayo
Did anyone else see what Hollinger wrote about Mayo in today’s PER Diem? This is just one more piece of evidence that I can cling to on the sputtering “Anti-Mayo” bandwagon. It also appears to be somewhat poignant in light of the current Kevin Love trade discussion.
That said, I can’t imagine he’s quite as good a shooter as he’s shown so far. For starters, Mayo is at 40.8 percent on 3-pointers — a range nearly all rookies struggle adjusting to. It’s possible he’s really that good, but he might just be shooting over his head.
But that’s nothing compared to his success rate on long 2-point field goals. Mayo is shooting 66-for-120 on long 2s this season for a 55.0 percent conversion rate. I can’t emphasize this enough: Nobody shoots that well. Last season, only two players with at least 100 attempts made more than half their shots from this range, Steve Nash and Mo Williams.
In the end I’d say that any trade that involves Love or Miller now is probably not going to be a good deal. Whether it ends up being necessary or not, at the very least I’d want to wait till each of their respective stocks was a little bit higher.
Thanks for the Hollinger info...
… I hadn’t seen that yet. One key assumption underlying our post was that there’s a good chance that Love and Miller’s stock might be higher right now than it will be at any point in the future, hence, it might be a good idea to be working the phones now. There’s no point in making a desperation trade, but if any of the deals we discussed came along, I think you’d want to give them strong consideration. It’s definitely possible that Love will turn the corner and become a very solid player, which could boost his stock. But I’d argue that there’s at least an equally good chance that his weaknesses will be exposed further and his stock will drop from where it is now. Think Randy Foye. He was involved in Iverson trade talks during his rookie year and McHale was reportedly unwilling to part with him as part of a deal. Now we’d be lucky to get half that value for him. Ditto Donyell Marshall. If we would’ve waited another year, I don’t think we could’ve gotten Gugliotta type value back. These are obviously isolated cases and Kevin Love is not Randy Foye or Donyell Marshall, but if the Wolves brass can see from practices, etc., that Love isn’t what they thought they were getting, they should trade him while he has value (of course no one except Jim Stack – eek! – knows what that value is).
Agreed...
…and if you’ve watched any number of Griz games, he’s not exactly throwing up a ton of easy shots. I have no idea how he’s keeping it as high as it is. 82% of his shots are coming off of jumpers. He’s only attempting 18% inside shots without getting to the line. Also, his outside shots come on less than 40% assists. In other words he’s dribbling into a lot of jumpers and that’s typically not a recipe for long term scoring success….especially for a rookie. Of course, if he continues this, then it’s another poke in the eye.
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I watched the 2nd Half of LAL-Memp last night...
and OJ had a pretty nice mix of shots—but definitely taking (and making) tough jumpers. He also made some nice assists off of dribble penetration and transition. I’ve only seen two or three of his games, so I don’t know if this is always the case, but he looked like an all-around quality guard last night and nearly beat the best team in the conference.
Shogun’s point is worth repeating—a big part of this post was the idea that Kevin Love might have a high trade value right now, that is going to drop somewhat as the year goes on. Particularly in LA, where the Clips wouldn’t mind bringing in a local college hero (if you can call a one-and-done player a hero…but c’mon, these are the Clips…) Love’s trade value might be highest.
On Mayo...
The scouting report on Mayo has always been that he takes and makes a lot of jumpers, sort of like Ray Allen does. I’ve watched five or six Memphis games this year and he’s consistently shot and made tough jumpers with supreme confidence. He looks like the polar opposite of Randy Foye—an uber-confident guard who knows when to pull the trigger and how to put the ball in the hoop. Mayo never hesitates when he has an open shot, like Foye does, which I think helps explain Mayo’s success and Foye’s lack of success. Mayo knows when to shoot and Foye doesn’t. I don’t know whether Mayo can keep hitting at this clip—it would be unsustainable for almost any guard—but it’s clear to me that he’s going to be an upper-tier guard in the league for a long time.
I find it funny that Hollingers complaint about him is that he is playing too well. I think we will have to wait at least 3 seasons to see if he is really THAT great or is merely good like other 20ppg scorers.
I thought the same thing...
… it would be a nice problem to have, wondering if your first round pick was a star or merely a really, really good NBA player.
No Pressure or Distractions
It is odd to think of but right now playing in Memphis is probably the lowest pressure Mayo has had to deal with in the last 4 years. And on top of that he really has no responsibilities other than playing basketball.
Hollinger has a point that the numbers look unthinkably good. Maybe Mayo just is the best shooter to hit the league. He’s played so many games without hitting a slump it is clearly not a fluke.
Given that Miller has been solid for quite a few years in a row now it went without thinking that he’d either help this team take a step up or be the quintessential extra shooter to trade to a contender. He’s been rubbish.
If Love was being well coached and well used he’d be doing a 10/10 right now. And before the season started we wouldn’t have though that was bad.
Love Improvement
In saying that Love’s value might actually be at its highest right now, I think you’re underselling a few things…
1. By all indications Love is an incredibly hard worker and VERY competitive.
2. Love is an intelligent ball player with a high basketball IQ.
3. The combination of both of the above traits should make it very unlikely that Love does not significantly improve over the years, and correct some of his current issues. Players much smaller, with less athleticism, who weren’t very intelligent, and not more motivated than Love have been able to get their shot off down low, why not Love too.
4. Finally, and I think this is the most important. Kevin Love has yet to be put in a situation that actually utilizes his many talents (with o-rebs being the one exception). Kevin Love can shoot from long range, we saw this from him in college, and we saw this during the pre-season. But Randy Wittman, in all his infinite wisdom, complained that “Love was taking three’s when he couldn’t even make a lay-up”. Probably not the optimum route for a young player like Love with waning confidence. We’ve also yet to see Love in a position that actually capitalizes on his passing ability even though he may be the best passer on this team. Richard Pryor’s comedy acumen should not be judged by his occasional crappy movies, Kevin Durant shouldn’t be judged by last year’s Shooting Guard disaster, and Kevin Love shouldn’t be judged by his brief stint as a pure bruiser.
In the end…Love will be fine, and he’ll be a better player than Mayo. It’s just a matter of putting him in the right situation. I would prefer that that happens in Minnesota.
I’m glad to read defenders of Love, because I’d like him to succeed as long as he’s on the Wolves.
I agree with your Points 1 and 2, and I made those same arguments for why Brewer would become a good player, last season, when he was struggling.
I don’t agree with your Point 3, where you say that players much smaller and less athletic than Love were able to get their shot off down low. Not to harp too much on the same point, but Love has a worrisome combination of small and slow, when you’re talking about starting him down low in the NBA. Hansbrough will have the same concerns next year, but will get drafted about 15 spots later (in part, because teams will say “Look at Kevin Love…”)
As for Point #4, I agree. However, it gets the the Love-Jefferson Problem, and it’s not going away until one of them is traded. As explained in the original post, it would be better to part ways with Love, before his stock falls.
Appreciate the comments, though, and again—I hope everything you say is right. I’d just prefer we go the Donyell/Cut Your Losses Route on this one.
I'm trying to think of "little" PFs who've dominated the post...
….and Charles Barkley is the only one I can think of, and Chuck had springs in his legs, so I don’t think that’s a great analogy. Others like Corliss Williamson and Gary Trent come to mind. These are guys who dominated the interior in college and then had to adjust their games somewhat in the NBA. Both turned into serviceable players, but I don’t know if that’s what we’re hoping for from Love. You’re definitely correct that Love will improve some as he gets older and more experienced. It’s just that his ceiling doesn’t look high. And as we said in the original post, Love isn’t going to beat out Jefferson for that job, so it might be best to trade him while teams still think he might be the next Wes Unseld.
point #3
did you see the Cleveland game when Love had the ball on the block and was unable to get a shot off on Wally???? rookie or not, if you are a PF in the NBA, drafted in the lottery you better be able to get that shot off 10 out of 10 times (unless you are unathletic, slow and undersized).
what you say here can, and will, be used against you
by GopherNation on Dec 29, 2008 5:38 PM CST up reply actions
yeah, I saw that...
… and cringed. It was embarrassing. Fortunately, K-Love has been playing better as of late (albeit against inferior competition), but I still don’t like him next to Jefferson. One of them has to go, and I hope it is Love.
Interesting with watching San Antonio
Duncan’s great, Parker’s getting there, and Manu is a special player. But this supporting cast is so pedestrian. Yet all they do is win. It’s inspiring to see what a star, great coach, and good front office can do. So far the Wolves are Ohferthree.
SF
small forward is the only answer. he wont gt traded, its not worth it for either team. The type of rookies that get traded are scrubs or second round players who arent getting enough chances. Not top 10 picks
... SF would be the best case scenario...
…. but I think it would be a criminal misuse of Love. His identifiable skill, apart from rebounding, is passing from the low block and (if he can learn to get his shot off) scoring with his back to the basket. He has looked like a fish out of water when he’s played on the perimeter this season, plodding around the arc as the ball gets reversed and trying to set a screen before the ball moves again. These have been some of the worst looking offensive sets we’ve run this season, which is saying a lot. And this doesn’t even get into the trouble he has defending SFs…
I’m sympathetic to the argument, though, because it would be nice to be able to use Love and Jefferson next to each other. I just can’t see how it’s going to work.
The thing about Love's offense
is that he did a lot of shooting (IIRC) from the 10-18 ft range at UCLA, which the Wolves don’t let him do. Also, I’m not sure the Wolves have drawn up a play for Love since McHale took over the bench. He’s left with broken plays, buzzer shots, and putbacks.
If Love ever gets his confidence back...
… he’ll start making those shots again. He was shooting them in the pre-season and the beginning of the regular season, but he missed most of them and lost his confidence. Now he’s left to play for scraps on the interior, where he is also struggling. I agree that they should try to run a play or two for him, which might open up something for him and boost his confidence. It’s painful to watch him struggling like this.
One of the more frustrating parts of Love’s struggles is when he’s squaring up his man, and he successfully up-fakes his defender… it’s frustrating because it should be effective, but he’s way too slow to drive by his man—even with him off balance. Add to that the fact that he gets stuffed at the rim by help defenders, and I don’t like his prospects as a square-up, perimeter/mid-range type of player. He just doesn’t have the tools for it. He could hit wide open shots, but so can every other competent NBA forward—Ryan Gomes, for instance.
Ryan Gomes could...
last year. And when he was the Wolves almost always in the game. This year he isn’t and they aren’t. I think you are way to quick to write off a PF who can rebound and hit jump shots. Though I will agree with you that unless his interior game improves from it’s current status (rubbish) he won’t be an effective player.
I wonder what it'd take to get Mayo back...
… I’m thinking a whole lot more than Love/Miller.
That Clippers trade is looking more feasible
Zach Randolph just went down, and you know they didn’t sign Baron and trade for Camby to build for the long-term. But why not get a fresh start for both teams:
Clippers send the Wolves:
Kaman
Gordon
Thornton
Ricky Davis (yeah!)
Wolves send the Clippers:
Love
Miller
Bassy
Shoddy
Gomes
All the minutes/pts/asst/rebs and salaries match up pretty nicely. The Wolves get their (eventual) starting center, whose skills complement Lord Jeff’s. Plus, a more-effective swingman than Gomes, plus the poor-man’s Mayo in Gordon.
The Clippers get the suspended Davis off the team, some youth in Love (along with help at the 4, and some L.A. popularity bump). They also get some cap room when Miller’s deal goes off the books, and serviceable players at low salaries in the rest. This should still give them some wiggling room to overpay another free-agent in the future to supplement Baron and the rest.
I’m more than willing to toss in a pick to make it work.
ummmm
The Clippers are giving up perhaps the 3 best players in the trade… yeah I’d take that.
I agree the talent is tilted in the Wolves favor . . .
But so was the trade that brought Camby to the Clippers in the first place. Which was brought about because of the unfortunate salary situation of the Nuggets. Now, the extreme disappointment that is the Clippers have put them in a similar situation. They have three good young players (Kaman, Thornton, and Gordon), and three overpaid/overaged players (BDavis, Zach, and Camby).
If they’re going to take advantage of the huge money and long contract they gave to BDavis, they need to win NOW. Which they’re obviously not doing. So, they can trade younger assets for near-term future cap room (see the trade above), or try to jettison Davis, Camby, and Randolph before they come off the books (good luck) to create room to sign the young players, as well as an FA or two.
Right now, it appears that Kaman, Davis, and Randolph alone will occupy almost $35mm in salary in 2010-2011. It appears that it will be difficult to extend both Gordon and Thornton, and still be active enough in the free agent market to improve a team that is projected to a 20-win season this year.
I'd do that deal...
… but I don’t think we could get Thornton too. And the way Gordon is blowing up, they might not want to move him either. I think the ship might’ve sailed on this deal (if there ever was a ship).
Even with Kaman, Gordon, and Thorton packaged in the deal, I’m skeptical of any trade involving Ricky Davis. Teams always do worse when they have him on their roster than they had been doing just before he arrived. It’s almost as if he were a double agent who would take a shot at your own basket.
by oblivionspocket on Jan 12, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions
Ricky Davis has a great basketball mind...in a weird, selfish, team cancer kind of way
he shot on his own basket because he knew he only needed one more rebound to get a triple double!!
best thing about that moment
is how the guy who was guarding him basically gave him a forearm smash as he turned back upcourt. I think Davis’s team (the Cavs I think?) was up by a bunch at that point, man I’d have been pissed if I’d been on the other team too.
by plinytheelder on Jan 14, 2009 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
I thought Nellie wanted to trade Randolph...
Wasn’t Nellie all but telling him to pack his bags? I’d like him on our front line.
monta
is the reason the warriors trade couldn’t happen. foye, miller, love and a first for monta wouldn’t happen. much less if they had to throw in turiaf. over on gsom, there’s been a lot of discussion about randolph. it’s certainly debatable whether or not he’s tradeable, because that debate goes on everyday. he’s got a lot of skill, but no basketball iq. the dumb, dumb mistakes are constant. he could learn how to play ball, and be really good. he also might not. i’d be open to making a trade that shipped him out if the right pieces were involved. the suggested deal did not include those pieces, not if monta and ronny would be gone too.
if you guys want to talk randolph, a first rounder would be a lovely starting point (given the ridiculous front office situations of both franchises, they might as well ask us, right?). i’d like to see a respectable post defender for randolph too. if you guys want, marcus williams is available to sweeten the deal…
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Thanks for the post..
What exactly is Monta’s situation? I just read that article linked above, and the writer seems convinced that he’s through in GS. If I were a GS fan, I wouldn’t want him to go, either. I’m just going off that speculation that he could be out.
As for the other guys in that proposed trade, I had a hard time making salaries work. Maybe something simpler is possible, without giving up Turiaf, etc.
tk seems to be running with some wild speculation there. at least about monta. if i were him, i would definitely not be pleased with the organization right now, either. how could you be? it’s unclear who’s making personell decisions and the team is terribly put together. it will take some good moves to get out of the mess, and no one knows who will be making those moves. i’d be very surprised to learn that monta was done in oakland, but until we know who’s making baskeball decisions, i can’t make any definitive claims on that.
and you probably had a hard time making the salaries work because turiaf is the only guy who’s on a reasonable pay scale who isn’t on a rookie deal or andris or monta. like i said, you can’t be happy with the way that team is being run, the warriors had a good salary cap situation this summer and now are saddled with maggette and crawford and jackson for too much cash. ugh. anyway, good luck with the rest of the season. i want to see you guys play like you did last night, living in st. paul means that the wolves are the team i get to watch the most, so i’ve got a strong interest in seeing good basketball from you.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
TK either knows something...
… or he gets paid on commission for speculation. He made it sound like things are pretty bad between Monta and the Warriors, especially Nellie. I doubt Monta’s value is Foye/Miller/Love/first round pick, especially given that no one knows if he’ll come back strong from his moped accident and he seems to be feuding with Nellie and the front office. Also, it is unknown if he’ll do well (or as well) in a non-Nellie system. I think his value is probably pretty low right now, which is one reason why he might not be on the market. Anyway, I’d still love to have him in MN because I was very impressed by his development before the accident. Still, I don’t know if you could get more than Mike Miller & Kevin Love for him at this point.
agreed
right now, monta has essentially no value. there really can’t be much interest in trading for him until it is known how his ankle is healed up. the only offers we could get would be offers like miller and love, and that would be an atrocious trade for the warriors. every offer made to the warriors should be with the idea that monta might not be the same firmly in mind. every offer the warriors consider should be on the assumption that he’ll be back at full strength or at least close to it. which is a big reason why he’s not moving any time soon.
and speculation is rampant about roster moves in the bay right now. no one knows who’s making decisions, so if you talk to anyone who works in the warriors front office, right down to the mailroom, you could be talking about a potential decision maker. you could hear any trade rumor you wanted to right now. so, talks of moving monta in a mess like this are tough for me to take seriously.
quick point about monta in a non-nellie system, too. his value to the team is based less on don nelson than anyone else in the organization. what makes him so great is that he shoots for an amazingly high percentage for the volume he shoots. it’s sort of an anti-nellie calling card. if anything, you might see that ridiculous shooting percentage go UP if he were traded. the guy is unstoppable from midrange. the worries should be about his speed, post injury (and for the most part, they are).
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
I want MONTA on the wolves!
purely for the fact that we don’t have any exciting players to watch on our roster
good last point...
… his midrange game was truly amazing. He was like a souped up Tony Parker with a slightly better jumper from there. I hope he can recapture that when he returns.
When are the Warriors gonna get their front office in order? It seems like this feud has been running for a long time. They need to get rid of Mullin or the other guy and let one of them go to work…preferably Mullin, I’d think, since he built the only Warriors team in the past 15 years that made a nice playoff push.
i'd be fine
with cleaning out the whole front office if it can’t be determined who made the mess the team is currently in. the past year was really, really bad for management. mullin’s been hit and miss as a gm. he’s made some great draft picks, some bad ones, some good fa signings and some terrible ones (if you want to make a warrior fan think about firing him, just mention troy murphy and mike dunleavy. or the fact that the team is still paying foyle…). he did steal jack and harrington to make up for the bad signings, but did luck into that. the situation in indy required a fire sale. i don’t know who i’d want fired, but being able to say “i want that guy fired,” would be a good step for the organization. it’s a huge mess that may or may not get resolved any time soon.
either way, i’m sure you don’t want to hear a rant about the warriors abysmal management situation right now. not after you made a solid first step in handling your problems so recently. on that note though, i haven’t heard much about a new gm for the wolves yet. i don’t follow the team as closely as i’m sure you do, so i’m curious if there have been rumblings.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
There's nothing going on the GM end
When Garnett was traded, a local writer, Britt Robson (plug: he’s one of the best NBA writers in the country. Check him out here: http://www.secretsofthecity.com/magazine/blogs/ball) had a Q&A where he asked Glen Taylor why he didn’t fire McHale before the Garnett trade, and Taylor intimated that the reason was none of the inhouse personnel were ready yet. And as much as I think there’s a real opportunity to turn things around dramatically by poaching a talented assistant from somewhere, this offseason is going to be so complex that if the Wolves don’t have a new GM by the end of the season, I’d rather stick with the Triangle of Authority until after next season.
I think Kevin Love has far more value as a player than a trade asset. Play him and develop him and his trade value will grow to higher heights than it is today.
I do see the Al Jefferson/Kevin Love combination as a long term issue, and that one of them will likely need to be traded at some point in time. I just don’t think this is the right time for that.
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