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Final Draft Board

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OK folks, here it is: the last draft board before the draft.  This one is going to differ from the last few boards because I have developed a system of rating college prospects that I'm going to be testing this year.  The basic thrust of the system is that it is based on a stat I created that measures the ratio of favorably ended possessions by any given player and then adjusts it into a more encompassing score by taking into account things like age, height for position, etc.  I'm still tweaking the formula and I'm not going to put it up here on the site yet because I want to give it a test run vis-a-vis the spread during the NBA season because if it works...well, then I'm going to place a few dollars down on it.

Anywho, the results this time around are a bit different and you may have picked up on this fact with recent attention paid to Kevin Love and my falling out of favor with OJ Mayo.  With no further delay, let's take a look:

  1. Michael Beasley
  2. Kevin Love
  3. Derrick Rose
  4. Brook Lopez
  5. Joe Alexander
  6. Mareese Speights
  7. Mario Chalmers
  8. OJ Mayo
  9. DJ White
  10. Chris Douglas Roberts
  11. Roy Hibbert
  12. Richard Hendrix
  13. Brandon Rush
  14. Ryan Anderson
  15. Joey Dorsey
  16. Pat Calathes

Buyer Beware:

  1. Jerryd Bayless
  2. Eric Gordon
  3. Anthony Randolph
  4. Russell Westbrook
  5. Donte Greene
  6. Deandre Jordan
  7. DJ Augustin
  8. Kosta Koufos
  9. Robin Lopez
  10. Bill Walker

I obviously didn't have the chance to run the numbers on every player.  I tried to keep it to a list of player that have been mentioned in boards or official news reports concerning the Wolves since the end of the year.  I also did not include international players as I have no idea how to grade them with the system I created.

Surprisingly, my little system suggests that this year's ditty is a two player draft: Beasley and Love.  They are head and shoulders above the competition and Love's stock would grow even more if he could find a team where he could have positional flexibility in the frontcourt to maximize his unique skill set and minimize any mismatches associated with his size.

Beyond Love and Beasley, this draft is packed with solid big men.  One of the things to consider in all of this is the relative value of a player like Speights or Hibbert if they could be had in the late teens/early 20s.

Another surprise in this draft is the relative weakness of the top flight guards.  According to a recent article over at Draft Express, one of the rules for draft success is to beware of the big men.  However, this year's crop of little guys are a) small, b) poor shooting, and c) questionably tied to team efficiency.  Outside of Rose, who went nuts during the tourney and the last few games of the regular season, guards like Bayless and Gordon are especially underwhelming.  I'm going to predict that Bayless will be viewed as one of the biggest busts in recent top draft memory and will be a bench player within 2 years.  Mayo is a bit better than Bayless/Gordon/Westbrook but he, like Rose, benefits a bit from coming on late.  Unlike Rose, who showed he could operate at a potentially elite level, Mayo's ceiling is more of a subdivision than a high rise.  When all is said and done about his game, I highly suspect that he will be viewed as the jump-shooting, turnover prone, low ppr, low fta, solid defending guard that he is.  Instead of my original projection of him having a Billups/Payton-like ceiling, I think his absolute high end is in the area of Steve Francis and Joe Jackson.  We're talking about a guy who shoots a lot of jumpers and will get paid an amount that doesn't necessarily match up with the value he brings to the bottom line of wins and losses.  18/4/4 is the sort of top-end production you can expect out of Mayo...or Randy Foye.

That being said, if the Wolves want a lead guard, Mario Chalmers is there for the taking and he may even be worth more in the mid-teens than any other player in the draft.  Hoopus commenter Jianfu has been on the Chalmers bandwagon for a long time and I have to credit him (or her?) for turning me on to the Jayhawk guard.  Chalmers is legit and if I'm going to believe my ranking system, I have no idea how he's not in the conversation for top guards in this draft; especially when compared to Gordon, Bayless, or Westbrook.  If you're a lottery team not named the Bulls and you are looking for a point, you don't need to move up to get the best one available after Rose. 

If the Wolves are unable to move their 2nd round picks, they should have some solid big man options at the top of the 2nd round.  Ryan Anderson may be sitting there for the taking, as could DJ White, and Joey Dorsey.  While I'm kind of disappointed that David Padgett didn't grade out as highly as I thought he would, even he would be a more realistic option than bust-bombs like Javele McGee or Deandre Jordan, especially at that point in the draft.

Pat Calathes, Pat Calathes, Pat Calathes, Pat Calathes!!! Again, if the Wolves keep their 2nd rounders, they could do a lot worse than picking up Calathes. Someone is going to get a kick ass role player when they draft Mr. Calathes.

Brook Lopez is big and young and like Rose, he came on late.  The Wolves could do worse than the big guy and even though he's got some red flags, if you break his season in two, his 2nd half and tourney make me feel a lot better about his potential to be a solid NBA center. 

Getting down to the nuts and bolts of the 3rd pick, at this point there's only 2 players I'd feel comfortable with the Wolves taking at 3 without moving the pick: Beasley and Love.  If they move down, I think it is absolutely essential that they walk away with Love, Lopez, Speights, or Alexander (again, I'm not including internationals here). 

If they are able to move their 2nd round picks (or a contract + Shaddy or Foye) for a pick in the teens, there are a few players they should definitely not pass on: Chalmers, CDR, Rush, and Hibbert.  If the Wolves have Ajinca rated highly, this is a place to take him but I have no idea how to grade international players. 

After thinking about this draft for a long time and after applying my own rating system to the players, I think this draft is surprisingly deep for players that will develop into solid NBA starters or role players.  It is filled with some questionable players but thankfully for the Wolves, the "best" ones are at the position (combo guard) they have no business picking.  If the Wolves are looking for a point guard, they would be hard pressed to find a player like Chalmers in a future draft at the position he will likely go at.  They will be hard pressed to find an efficient wing like CDR at the position he will likely go at. They will be hard pressed to find bigs like Hibbert, Anderson, White, and Dorsey at the positions they will likely go at. There is value to be had in this draft and it is in the backcourt during the teens and the frontcourt during the 20s/30s. 

Getting back to the top players, as I have said before, there are only 2 players I'd feel comfortable with the Wolves taking at the top of the draft.  After that, players like Alexander, Speights, Chalmers, and CDR demand that a trade down happen.  If ever there were a draft to have a couple of picks in the 6-15 range, this is it. 

Ideally, I'd like to see the Wolves find a way to get Beasley.  He's that good and players like Foye, McCants, and Brewer should be used to bring him aboard.  If Miami wants Foye to make it happen, that's a no-brainer sort of deal...especially with 2 2nd round picks and Chalmers still on the board.  Short of Beasley, they need to end up with Love, Lopez, Speights, or Alexander by making a trade down no further than 8th.  Ideally, they would find a way to move both their 2nd round picks for a mid 1st as well as Shaddy/Foye + a contract and the Celtic pick for another mid 1st.  I have been saying it for a while: this is a great draft to have 3 picks and they should take advantage of players like Chalmers, CDR, and (if they have him graded correctly) Ajinca being available in the teens.  I have no idea why Chalmers and CDR are going to be available at that point in the draft.  Chalmers has been the best player on Kansas for 2 years and CDR was the best player on the 2nd best team in the country.  Come on folks!!!

Realistically, 3 picks is a tough one to pull off.  However, it does sound like they can get 2 1st round picks and here's a few acceptable situations assuming that the Wolves can move up to, let's say, the 15th pick as well as drafting between 3-8 and keeping 1 of their 2nd rounders:

Best talent

  1. Chalmers/Jaric
  2. Foye/Brewer
  3. Gomes/Brewer
  4. Love/Richard
  5. Jefferson/White

Best value:

  1. Chalmers/Jaric
  2. Foye/Brewer
  3. Alexander/Gomes
  4. Jefferson/Anderson
  5. Anderson/Richard

If the Wolves could magically pop off 3 1st rounders, here's the 2 best possibilities:

Best talent:

  1. Chalmers/Jaric
  2. Foye/Brewer
  3. Love/Gomes
  4. Jefferson/Richard
  5. Speights/Richard

Best value:

  1. Chalmers/Jaric
  2. Foye/Brewer
  3. Alexander/Gomes
  4. Jefferson/Richard
  5. Speights/Richard

Keep in mind that if the Wolves are able to move down, they should be able to pick up another player or two.

Let's also imagine that the Wolves are able to work out a deal with the Clippers and Heat to move Foye and the future Heat pick to grab Beasley.  If this is the case, I think they do their best go move up for either CDR or Chalmers and then enjoy life with Jefferson, Beasley, and, let's say, CDR as the tri-core of the future. I don't think a lineup like this is out of the realm of possibility for Our Beloved Puppies:

  1. Bassy/Jaric
  2. CDR/Brewer
  3. Beasley/Gomes
  4. Jefferson/Richard
  5. ?/Richard

It would be thin but that's about the best core you could walk away with in this draft.

Wrapping this bad boy up, Chalmers would be a fantastic value for a team looking for a point guard in the teens.  He grades out better than Mayo and he'll likely go 10-15 spots lower than the USC Trojan.  If the Wolves are dead set on taking a 4/5 and they want to trade down a long way, Speights would be a pretty solid player to end up with, value wise.  Even if the team keeps its 2nd rounders, it will have players to choose from that will provide value to the team. 

Bottom line: the Wolves need at least 2 1st round picks.  The first should be Beasley, Love, Lopez, Alexander or Speights and the second should be Chalmers, CDR, or a center like Hibbert or (if they have him graded correctly) Ajinca. 

Also, there as been a lot of talk lately about how the Wolves have narrowed their search to 4 players.  Here's my best guess at the 4:

  1. Love
  2. Mayo
  3. Alexander
  4. Gallinari

Here's hoping for a good draft.

UPDATE/A NOTE ON METHODOLOGY: The bedrock used for ranking these players is a formula I developed that measures a player's ratio of favorably ended possessions.  I then used this number to account for 50% of a player's total score.  The remaining 50% was split 2 ways: 25% between 5 year historical comparisons with similar players on stats like ORtg, %poss, pts/poss, and ppr; and 25% on weighted factors like age, position height, and the ratio between their individual and team efficiency numbers. 

As for the actual ranking of the players: I am in no way, shape, or form suggesting that a player like DJ White be selected with the 9th overall pick.  What I am suggesting is that his college stats suggest that he has a pretty damn good chance to turn into a top-10 rookie in his 1st year and that he would provide a wonderful value for whoever took him in the late 1st/early 2nd as his talent and numbers clearly outpaced his placement in numerous mock drafts.  The opposite can be said about a player like OJ Mayo, whose perceived value greatly exceeds his actual performance and the way in which he could provide value to a team, say, with the 3rd pick, is to find a willing trading partner who wholeheartedly believes the hype and is willing to trade down (+ additional assets) to get their hands on the 6'4" combo guard from USC.

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You have Love at the 3 again...

...people aren’t going to like it :)

by wyn on Jun 23, 2008 9:31 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I know...

...I made fun of him during the year and now I feel bad about it because he had an amazing season. It’s really quite amazing how efficient he was. The guy had a better year than players like Brand, Horford, and Boozer.

Somebody set up us the basketball
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 23, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

BTW:

I’m not the only one who has floated the Love over Rose argument:

“The bigger question is whether a team can justify taking Rose ahead of Michael Beasley, whose 19.19 is the best mark by anyone in the six years for which I have data. Yes, Beasley appears to be a space cadet and that’s troubling, but what these numbers say to me is that the talent disparity is simply too big. That is, unless Beasley is such a train wreck off the court that he sabotages his own career, he’s probably going to have much better results than Rose. In fact, you can make a strong case that Kevin Love should rank ahead of Rose on draft boards, as well.”

Somebody set up us the basketball
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 23, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Slight confusion...

...I think. I was referring to Love at the 3 with regard to a depth chart.

by wyn on Jun 23, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ahhhhh...

...my bad. He’ll, I’ll take him there too. If not Beasley, then Love from Memphis + 28.

Somebody set up us the basketball
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 23, 2008 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Momentum for Wade

I was listening to Patrick Ruesse on Sunday Morning and he was saying the Wolves should select Mayo. He said he would get “phiysically ill” is the Wolves selected Love with the third pick and then went on a tirade boing on about what a stiff Love is. I don’t think Ruesse really has much to go on and I think his analysis is strictly intuitive. However, I wonder what impact the media and people like Ruesse have on the Wolves management. They shouldn’t have any. Frankly, I get a little queasy when I think the might actually take surveys of season ticket holders into account when choosing who they should draft. But, then again, this is the Wolves. So, a question for you.

Lets say the Wolves keep their three picks and don’t make a trade before or during the draft. What would be the best case scenario if the Wolves choose Mayo with the third and then get a couple of players to fill out their roster with their two second round picks. THis is a very likely scenario, imo. Do you go to camp with Foye, McCants and Mayo? Who do you sign of Telfair, Smith, Gomes, Snyder, Richards? Do you trade Walker now, or wait until the middle of the season? Who would you trade (Foye, McCants) and who or what would you try and get in return. WHich one brings greater value in a trade?

I want the Wolves to trade down and get two first round picks-grabbing Love with one of them. I hope Mayo’s stock rises the closer we get to Thursday and the Wolves make a trade after Miami chooses Beasley getting two first round picks in return and keeping one of their second rounders.

Heard a rumor of Miami trading Wade to Chicago for their pick and Tyrus and someone else so They could land Rose and Beasley. Trent Tucker proposed trading Al Jefferson for Chicago’s pick and one or two of their guys (Gordon, whomever?). Would this trade appeal to you. (It wouldn’t me.)

Is there anyway the Wolves can land both Love and Lopez? WOuld we want too? I see the argument for CDR or other scoring 3’s, but I still want to keep Al at the four and I am not too confident in another year of Richards.

by Andy B on Jun 23, 2008 10:38 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

If they grab Love...

...I think it’s essential that they get an athletic 4/5. I won’t claim to know the 1st thing about Ajinca, but he seems to fit the bill. Although, if you have a player like CDR on the wing-a guy who can get his own shot-you have a very nice and efficient tri-core of players with Love, Jefferson, and CDR. Those are guys who can quite simply put the ball in the basket. Plus, by all accounts, they’re all solid character guys.

I can’t possibly tell you how much I do not respect Reusee’s basketball takes. He’s the guy who once called women’s basketball synchronized tip-toeing. Pig, pig, pig, and more pig and I don’t think he knows the first thing about the modern game and he’s on cruise control from a time in his career where he actually cared and paid attention. I’m guessing this may have been the late 70s.

If the Wolves keep their picks, I’m hoping and praying for a Love, (White/Dorsey/Anderson), Calathes pick. For a while there it looked like Chalmers would slip, but I don’t think that’s going to happen now that people seem to have come to their senses. If that’s the case, Richard, Gomes, and Bassy get re-signed and you may see one of these guys start it out in the D League. I guess the lineup would look like this:

Foye/Bassy
Brewer/Shaddy
Gomes/Calathes
Love/Richard
Jefferson/(White/Dorsey/Anderson)/Richard

I think Trent Tucker is out of his damn mind if he wants to trade Big Al. First of all, the Bulls would want the 3rd pick. The Heat/Bulls are tossing around Wade and Thomas…the Wolves don’t have those kinds of bullets in the chamber to make a deal work where they walk away with 1 and 3.

Finally, I think Walker is untradable..Earlier this year when I got all bent out of shape about the Ratliff business, I made a point of saying that Toine’s deal won’t be as big of an asset as Theo’s was. Toine’s deal is worthless on its own and only somewhat useful with marginal assets like the Wolves have.

Somebody set up us the basketball
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 23, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wolves take Love

On the one hand, I think if this draft was preKG trade, the Wolves would select Love. McHale would have taken Love regardless of what others input was. He is McHales type of player. On the other hand, I think Taylor – perhaps rightfully – has taken a degree of decision making out of McHales hands by bringing others, including himself into the process. I think Taylor makes the ultimate choice this year after listening to everyone and when McHale says he likes Love, Taylor responds “Tell me why he is better than Mayo? You said Brewer last year and we could have had Stuckey. Why should we take Love and what happens if Mayo is an all star?”

McHale will give it his best shot, but in the end hes probably up against Hoiberg and Stack and others. And, I think they will lean Mayo if they keep the third. McHale’s only chance to get Love is orchestrating a trade down. Taylor is going to take Mayo if the Wolves keep the third pick because he’s got a business approach and everyone out there says Mayo is the safe bet at 3.

So, Mchale had better be talking to other teams if he wants Love, and who knows?, maybe McHale makes a good trade.

Ruesse is better on Baseball and he probalby has mailed it in on B-ball. I think he goes on tirades against the Vikings, Hockey, Lynx and Gopher athletics, as much to get the response of being called a fat pig as anything else. He’s more entertainer, than sports analyst. I like his writing and get a chuckle out of him most days and sometimes he finds a story that can actually pull on the heartstrings a bit. But, I would never take his opinion on B-ball too seriously. I just wonder if Taylor does. Something tells me he has asked for a spreadsheet from Hoiberg or someone listing every sportswriter, columnist, blogger, coach’s opinion out there on the draft and hes looking it over to see if he can find a consensus on who he should pick.

by Andy B on Jun 23, 2008 11:43 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It really would be interesting...

...to see what their criteria are for making this pick.

Somebody set up us the basketball
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 23, 2008 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's how my board breaks down with Hollingers (mine listed first then his):

1- Beasley/Beasley
2- Love/Love
3- Rose/Arthur
4- Lopez/Speights
5- Alexander/Augustin
6- Speights/Rose
7- Chalmers/Alexander
8- Mayo/Lopez
9- White/Chalmers
10- CDR/Bayless

I differ with him on a few players quite a bit. Rose absolutely dismantled Augustin in the tourney and I know it’s just 1 game, but Augustin is sub 6 feet and that’s problematic. I also don’t see the Arthur selection. Plus, Bayless is going to suck. I’m convinced of that.

Somebody set up us the basketball
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 23, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rose is a classic....

... eye test guy. When the pressure was up he was rock solid with the ball in his hands. He seemed completely unaffected by pressure.

Plus everything about Memphis, from the amount of talent they had, to the way they run their offense, was working against Rose from the piling up stats perspective.

by Pants_ on Jun 23, 2008 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did you see Speights play?

I didn’t know Speights was a major prospect until after the season so I didn’t make a point to see him play. 25 minutes, 14 points, 8 rebounds on over 60% shooting last year seems great. I don’t get why I never heard his name.

by Pants_ on Jun 23, 2008 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I had someone...

...ask me about him over at the TWolvesBlog forum and I hadn’t seen much of him at the time as whenever I would catch Florida, I was paying more attention to Nick Calathes. After that, I paid a bit more attention. He’s an efficient players. He had some crazy 40 minute numbers and that’s one thing that really catches peoples eyes when they look back at his season.

Somebody set up us the basketball
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 23, 2008 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think even McHale knows that Reusse doesn't know what he's talking about

When it comes to basketball. I think we can safely assume that.

I’m not too worried about Taylor ignoring/underweighting McHale’s advice (we should be worried about the fact that he’s taking it at all). He could have said to him last year,” we had Roy and traded him for Foye and cash, and Roy was the ROY. So why should we take Brewer?” I doubt there was real dissagrement within the organization on that, and I’m guessing there will be little in this instance.

Seems to me if there was a serious concern about accountability regardign McHale’s performance in the Country Club, after the last three draft picks, we’d have a new guy in charge. We don’t. So i’m guessing we’ll have the consensus discussion and McHale’s opinion will count as much/more than anyone’s (though i could see him being overruled if there is a consensus for someone else).

Also, I’m pretty sure all McHale will have to do if he thinks that Taylor feels OJM is the “safer” pick is to bring up the real/imagined character issue, and Love all of a sudden starts looking like the “safe” pick.

by Sterno on Jun 23, 2008 2:16 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

If there's one thing...

...I kind of overdo on this site, it’s get on McHale for some of the draft picks. McCants was the right pick at 14. Granger would have been a nice addition but McCants graded out as a stud and he still could be an excellent scorer in this league if he could wrap his head around the 3rd guard role. Hell, he has the tools to be a starting 2 in this league and a pretty damn good one at that.

Foye v. Roy was a mistake but I think in 4-5 years it won’t look as bad as we now think it does as Foye has a pretty decent chance of hitting numbers around 16/5/5. He was a good player coming out and even though he had red flags, it looks like he can start at this level for a while. That being said, the pick was compounded by the fact they already had McCants and they proceeded to sign Mike James (who is listed as Foye’s ceiling comparison on DX :) ) Brewer was the dumb pick. There’s no getting around that one. I thought at the time that Brewer passed the eye test and….well, I went back and applied my little ranking system to him and yuck. That pick was made even worse by the fact that it was made with KG still on the roster. Had the KG trade been done before the draft when it should have, they’d have had the 5 pick (Jeff Green) or they would have picked up a legit big man. I like Brewer as a player and I think he does the cliched “little things” well enough to make up for some of his inadequacies, but I think that’s the only pick McHale can really be hung over the coals for if we’re just talking individual picks. However, if you view all of these picks together, the guy is insane. It’s just too much of the same thing…and that thing hasn’t worked.

Somebody set up us the basketball
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 23, 2008 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't make myself as clear as I could have

You can argue about an individual move, but taking a look at what he’s done with this team over any length of time longer than 1 year and you would have to say he should be fishing somewhere right now rather than still in charge. So if Glen was going to discount his opinion, I would think that would have happened a long time ago.

And I should call myself on my own hyporcricy here - I liked most of those picks at the time (I was pulling for Granger, just because McCants seemed like the headcase he was). And maybe there is a plan - if you look at Foye’s offensive #s for his second year, they look a lot like Billups’ second year (right down to fewer games due to injury), and McCants’ #s aren’t all that different from Hamilton’s second year (using the second year to adjust for the microfracture surgery). I’m not saying they will become those players, but it’s worth noting. But if you are going to go the pistons route, then you better hope Brewer becomes Teshaun Prince (though he’s at least 3 inches shorter and missing one jumpshot), which I guess means Love will have to fill that ‘Sheed role of passing, rebounding and 3 pointers (though I don’t think he will be as good defeinsively, given the height differential). Jefferson would be an improvement on the McDeyss , but of course that doesn’t take into accoun tthe individual/team defense those guys play, which was an obvious weakness of the Wolves.

by Sterno on Jun 23, 2008 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can argue about an individual move, but taking a look at what he’s done with this team over any length of time longer than 1 year and you would have to say he should be fishing somewhere right now rather than still in charge

I think the whole fishing thing is what got him in trouble in the first place. :) I get what you’re saying though.

Somebody set up us the basketball
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 23, 2008 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

One thing...

that would be nice to see (a few years done the road, obviously) is some information on the power structure in the Wolves front office since the Cassell/Spreewell area ended. I’m wondering if KG didn’t get a bigger say in the decision making than people think. This is totally an inference, but if you look at how McHale has done since the trade versus before, it’s like night and day (and I’m absolutely hoping that continues into the draft). There are a number of possible reasons for it, from Taylor putting pressure on McHale to McHale actually paying attention to McHale having (somewhat) a direction to move the team, but it feels really weird how the front office has improved in the last year. Of course, I think he should be fired for the Casey/Wittman debacle straight out, so…

by McCleak on Jun 23, 2008 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm with you...

...on the Casey debacle. That was ridiculous and the guy should still be coaching the team. They’d have lost the pick to the Clippers and that’s probably one of the reasons why he was let go. Pathetic.

Somebody set up us the basketball
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 23, 2008 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Would it be possible...

to get a numerical value for your picks? I’d like to see how far Love is from Beasley, and Rose from Love.

by McCleak on Jun 23, 2008 8:13 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'll give you a range for the top 5...

...the problem with the number is that it’s just for 50% of the overall score. For the other 50% I used rankings and differentials and basically awarded points based on how they compared to historical averages and team play vis-a-vis their peers. This is the favorable possession stat:

Beasley: 27-30
Love: 26-29
Rose: 22-25
Lopez: 21-24
Alexander: 21-24

I measured total possessions in 2 ways and they came out with about a 3 point differential. The actual score is somewhere in the middle. I’m going to tweak this a bit and see if it works for NBA games and betting purposes so I want to keep it kind of close to the vest but I am working on a watered down version that doesn’t use some of the weighting that would give away the whole shebang if it works to a tune of 60% or above. Of course, I don’t have any sort of historical perspective to tell you what a good number on this scale is. I suppose I could go back in the past and plug in a few numbers but I’ve already invested way more time than I would have like to in this and…well, I have a new guitar that needs playing.

Somebody set up us the basketball
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 23, 2008 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So Love...

is right up there with Beasley, while there’s not a whole ton of difference from Rose to Alexander? I’m starting to think that Love is going to be a good test for stats analysis versus traditional scouting in basketball. Most stat guys have love as #2 or a close 3, while the top teams are being told that Rose is the #1.

by McCleak on Jun 23, 2008 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know...

...if I’d say that there’s not a lot of difference between Rose and Alexander. They do different things very well and Rose gets a bump from some of the other scores I weigh the favposs number against. I guess I’d say that they do what they do to a similar extent rather than they’re not all that different. It’s like having a good set of tools; the hammer gets the nails and the Fubar gets the crown molding.

I’m also not claiming that my system even works all that well yet. I simply don’t have a track record and we’ll just have to wait and see. I may be overestimating the importance of big men as I don’t like to give a lot of importance to assists and I may be short changing guards by focusing on things like ppr and TORate. It’s just one of those things where we’ll just have to wait and see. I’ll keep a running track of it during the year.

Somebody set up us the basketball
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 24, 2008 7:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's how Hollinger has them broken down with 3 year PER:

Derrick Rose 14.69
Joe Alexander 14.58

I’m not claiming that Hollinger is the end-all for these sorts of rankings but it’s nice to see that I’m in the same ball park as far as the differences between some of these players go, stat-wise.

Somebody set up us the basketball
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 24, 2008 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great post

And thanks for the props, SnP. Indeed Chalmers has been a personal favorite of mine for a long time. I think I’m a sucker for those players who are the secret engines for their teams. To me, the play that best captured him was the final possession in the Davidson game where Stephen Curry, averaging about 80 ppg in the tourney, brought the ball up for a final shot attempt to win. Kansas had Rush on him, initially, but Rush got tangled up in his own feet as he was backpedaling. Curry began to pick a spot, but out of nowhere Chalmers was on him like a bulldog. Curry, surprised, dribbled right, but Chalmers stayed in his grill so severely that Curry-the guy EVERYBODY knew would shoot-simply had no choice but to give the ball up.

One concern about Chalmer’s prospects-and it’s admittedly a sizeable one-is he’s a bit too perimeter-oriented when it comes to his scoring. But he’s a bit of a weird player in that most outside-dominant players tend to be one-trick ponies (think JJ Reddick). Chalmers, OTOH, is absurdly good in a lot of very important categories: defense, steals, PPR, very few turnovers, eFG%... I like his chances of becoming at least a role-playing regular, and if the Wolves took Love, Chalmers could be a very good PG playing off the double post. That could be a real headache to defend.

(I also wonder if there’s something systematic with Bill Self teams. Self had Deron Williams at Illinois. I’m not going to compare Chalmers to Williams, but Williams too was a guy who was way more perimeter oriented than he is now as a pro. Like those Illinois teams, Kansas ran a trio of psuedo-PGs out there and, if you could shoot, asked you to bomb away. Again, I’m not comparing Chalmers to Williams, not by any stretch, but his numbers indicate he has the athleticism and skill to potentially be a bit better working inside-out than he currently is.)

But this is likely moot. The Wolves didn’t work Chalmers out, so I’d be surprised if they considered him. I doubt it’s a case where he’s not on their radar; I just think they’ve hitched their wagon to Foye at PG, at least for the time being.

Anyway, fantastic post. Your approach seems extremely interesing. It’ll be interesting to see how it fares.

Also, DX reported a rumor today the the Clippers are hot for Mayo and may offer their #7 pick, their 2009 pick (protected), and the pick owed by the Wolves in the Jaric deal. Wow. Things are getting interesting. That doesn’t quite pass the smell test for me (seems awful rich to move up 4 spots), but who knows?

by jianfu on Jun 23, 2008 10:52 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That Clipper trade definitely...

...doesn’t pass the smell test. That’s way too much for Mayo. Although, I’d be a happy, happy camper if they pulled that off.

I’m hoping that Chalmers was part of the Houston workouts. I haven’t seen any list of players yet and I’m hoping and praying they’re playing it close to the vest on him if they decide to move Foye for a trade to get Beasley. But that probably won’t happen either as you are correct that the wagon is hitched to Foye. When Glen Taylor said that they think they could have 2 of their big 3 in place (or something to that effect; maybe it was something along the lines of Foye needing to step it up to be part of the big 3), that kind of made any trade talk involving the guy moot…even though Beasley would be more than worth it.

Thanks BTW. It will be interesting to see if this works. I’m going to keep tabs on it during the year. I think the most important thing in basketball is ending a possession favorably. That’s what it all breaks down to and I’m trying to find a good way to measure how well players do that/100 possessions. The weighting aspect of certain stats (esp things like blocks or anything that keeps a possession alive) is what probably will hurt me on this stat.

Somebody set up us the basketball
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 24, 2008 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

EDIT

Actually, I just looked it up: Self had Williams for just one year at Illinois (his freshman year). So, that maybe throws some water on my “system” hypothesis…

by jianfu on Jun 23, 2008 11:13 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I WANT OJ!

"Don't take anything for granted, because tomorrow is not promised to any of us."

by Twins Territory on Jun 24, 2008 10:00 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You may get him...

...as I have a bad feeling that the Wolves will draft him thinking they can force somebody’s hand in a trade that won’t work out.

Somebody set up us the basketball
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 24, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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