The Audacity of Maybe
It looks like the carnage is over, and the dust is clearing...what's left here?
Two bad teams trading assets, and hopes.
I'm not in the S&P camp that thinks this deal is highway robbery. I'm not a huge Kevin Love fan; the more the Iron Ranger says he likes somebody, the less I like the player. He's undersized and slow, and for Pete's sake he had to actually buy pre-packaged food just to pare down his weight for the draft. Let's hope he can find an non-fat replacement for chocolate milk, and it doesn't have an alcohol derivative. Facing the facts, McHale hasn't been a great personnel guy, and anything short of a slam dunk choice will always produce questions about his picks as long as he's a front office executive. He's always a "wait and see" VP.
But, since anyone other than Rose and Beasley were question marks for me in this draft, my threshold was if they were going to acquire Love, it would have to be with other players. That they clearly did. Getting rid of those contracts (Jaric and Walker especially) are huge; getting Cardinal's back is bad, but in the end is a net gain for Minnesota. I think Miller is a very good player, and underrated. Jason Collins is serviceable, Cardinal and Mark Madsen can complete for which one jumps off the bench quicker to cheerlead.
Chalmers getting dealt earlier in the evening makes resigning Telfair all the more important, unless more moves are going to be made. If Telfair isn't in the mix for contractual reasons, then they'll need to find a solid backup PG. And, there's the question of Rashad McCants. Unlike the Strib's Souhan, who in his morning column put Sebastian as the starting PG, I would think right now Shaddy and Foye would have an equal chance to be the backcourt tandem. If so, you have an undersized backcourt AND front court, with mouths to feed in terms of touches if you have Miller, McCants, Jefferson and Foye all starting. If Telfair does start, and Shaddy sits, that's a powder keg wating to explode. Wishing Shaddy would accept his sixth man role status is like me wishing I could dunk...or at least be six feet tall. Ain't gonna happen.
All in all, in a plus/minus environment, I think Minnesota did well last night. However, it's not robbery. The logic others (Souhan, Robson) used in their missives on last night's draft comes into play: if Mayo's a star, it becomes a net gain for Memphis. If you bring in the "20 games better" standard McHale mentioned, this might get them closer to 30 or 35, unless Love turns out to be a total stud. If he's decent or ordinary, then it's the play of Mike Miller that makes or breaks this deal for the Wolves, with howling from the peanut galley about how McHale AGAIN missed out on another player. It's like a bad Dr. Seuss book: Oh the Drama He Creates!
That they ARE making moves is a great sign though; the chatter the last few days has been wonderful. While the Wolves front office isn't quite Obama like in producing the audacity of hope (what can one expect from a predominately Republican group?), there's a buzz here. That's good for them, and us. It's the audacity of maybe-- good enough now for a long suffering group of fans longing to be relevant once again.
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Sorry...
...for putting my post up over yours. I guess we were writing at the same time.
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Problem solved...
...I timed it for later tonight. BTW: Did you catch Souhan’s 1st take before his somewhat reasonable one?
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Not a problem...
I’m figuring the opinions will come fast and furious the next couple of days. I only read Souhan’s piece this morning; what was his first take? Judging from the KFAN rube reaction, more people hated the trade than loved it (no pun intended), but really, getting Miller in the deal makes it a wait and see for me.
His first take was an article about how the Wolves completely made the right pick.
They’ve scrubbed it from the sitte. I cut and pasted a few paragraphs. Here’s a chunk:
The media got fooled into thinking the Timberwolves rated Southern California guard O.J. Mayo and UCLA center Kevin Love even in ability, and that it was going to be tough to pick between them with the third overall choice in Thursday’s NBA draft.Well, there never was any doubt. Wolves assistant general manager Fred Hoiberg verified Thursday night that Mayo was their choice all along.
Hoiberg said the Wolves never came close to making a trade. The truth of the matter is they think so much of Mayo that they wanted him on the team.
“Our people thought that Mayo had far more upside than Love,” Wolves owner Glen Taylor said. “And very important was the fact that Fred played for Tim Floyd at Iowa State, and we knew Floyd [who coached Mayo at Southern California] was going to give an honest scouting report on Mayo.”
He’s since done a 180 while cribbing Britt’s take.
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whoops...
..that was the Strib’s other joker columnist, Grandpa Sports. Here’s Souhan’s take (he still pulls off the 180):
The Wolves did the right thing, taking O.J. Mayo instead of Kevin Love, or any other distant Beach Boy relative.That Mayo is better than Love is easily quantifiable. Mayo and Love both played one year of college basketball in L.A., and Mayo made a lot more money.
If you’re drafting a college player to help your NBA team, you want the kid who has raised eyebrows at the IRS, not the one who is assumed to have played for cafeteria cheeseburgers and NCAA-sanctioned sneakers.
The Star Tribune ladies and gentlemen.
I get that real newsmen like Zgoda got the quote from Hoiberg and ran to put it in print and then later updated their story. That’s fine and it’s reflected in his stories from top to bottom. However, the columnists…well, let’s just say “journalism” isn’t a word that comes to mind when reading their takes.
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FSN
I saw a scroll this morning that FSN North is going to carry a news conference at 1 this afternoon.
That they ARE making moves is a great sign though; the chatter the last few days has been wonderful. While the Wolves front office isn’t quite Obama like in producing the audacity of hope (what can one expect from a predominately Republican group?), there’s a buzz here. That’s good for them, and us. It’s the audacity of maybe—good enough now for a long suffering group of fans longing to be relevant once again.
right on
by DedicatedFollowerOfFashion on Jun 27, 2008 10:06 AM CDT reply actions
Chalmers
I have been driving the Chalmers bandwagon for the past week or so and giving him away made sense while they had Mayo, but if they knew they were dealing Mayo they should have hung on to Mario. He was a great pick at 34.
Apart from that, I really like Mike Miller and he was my choice for who I wanted the Nuggets to acquire at the trade deadline last year.
This is totally off-topic but how bout the Nets! First they get a potential star in Yi (supposedly 8 years younger than the admittedly very good player they gave up), then they get Lopez all the way down at 10, then they get CDR at 40! Is there something I’m missing about this guy? He’s 6’7 and can flat-out score – he pretty much took Brandon Rush apart during the final. I guess there are questions about his athleticism, but to my mind he is at worst a Dell Curry-type guy – instant offense off the bench from the wing. Instant offense at 40! Anyways these are some very good young players. Now if they can just get rid of Carter…
If you need a guy to totally revamp a team in a quick amount of time...
Kiki Vandeweghe is the one. I think he got screwed over a little in Denver, when Karl came in, and he needs a “premium owner”, in terms of ability to maneuver above and beyond the cap, but he’s decisive, and I would trust him to make controversial moves more than I would the Iron Ranger.
The Nets, Blazers, and Indy...
...had amazing drafts. Here’s the take from Blazer’s Edge:
Here’s the compacted version:Blazers acquire: Jerryd Bayless (Pick #11), Ike Diogu, Nicolas Batum (Pick #25), three second-round picks from the Chicago Bulls, and a second-round pick from the Los Angeles Clippers.
Blazers give up: Jarrett Jack, Josh McRoberts, Brandon Rush (Pick #13), Darrell Arthur (Pick #27), Joey Dorsey (Pick #33), and Mike Taylor (Pick #55)
Here’s the practical version:
The Blazers netted Bayless, Diogu, Batum and four second-rounders and only gave up Jarrett Jack and Josh McRoberts.
And they still have enough assets to make a run at someone else. Meanwhile, Kiki blew up New Jersey and made them one of the youngest teams in the league with a move to Brooklyn (and maybe Lebron) on the horizon.
Indy got Rush, TJ Ford, Hibbert, and Rasho to go with guys like Granger and Dunleavy.
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Indy
These are minor points I guess, but being a Raptors as well as a Wolves fan I can tell you that my estimation of TJ Ford has gone down a bit over the last couple of years – he can be very explosive (remember that amazing dunk here in MN?) but I really question his decision-making (though he’ll be a step up from Tinsley I think), and his outside shot needs work.
There’s also a rumor floating around that the Pacers will buy out Rasho, at which point he’ll re-sign with Toronto.
by plinytheelder on Jun 27, 2008 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
"Marbury"
I wonder if after all these years the Wolves management isn’t still spooked because of Marbury. Maybe they look at Mayo and think: yeah he might turn out to be another Deron Williams, but here’s a kid who went to LA to play his year of college ball, who clearly wants to be in a glamorous setting, and who will pick up and leave after three years. Contrast that with a guy (Love) who has talked again and again about his desire to be in MN. I’m not saying this is the right way to run a basketball team, but maybe they’re thinking: this will give us three cornerstones (Love, Big Al and Foye) who have talked in really committed ways about being here.
I didn't buy into the...
...Mayo won’t want to play here talk before last night. But when the Wolves made the pick, his face told the whole story. He’s clearly a professional and he held it together, but maybe this is a good thing with the 2nd contract.
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if that’s the case then I wonder what he’ll think of Memphis hehe
by plinytheelder on Jun 27, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I have a soft spot...
...for Memphis so I’m probably not an impartial source of info on that one. I LOVE Memphis but some people can view it as something of a rathole…plus, it’s not exactly NYC.
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I've been doing...
...an impression of the Mayo Face all day. The key is 3 seconds of showing no emotion then smiling like your mouth is being pried open with hooks.
Damn dude that is hilarious! You need to take a photo of yourself doing the “Mayo Face” and post it here immediately!
by plinytheelder on Jun 27, 2008 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions
bigs
SNP aren’t you the guy who was an undersized post player in HS? Hope so because I have some questions about Love. First, you (and others) make the comparison to Horford. I just don’t see it. Horford is a traditional big man, a back-to-the-basket player who is basically a C who sometimes plays PF. Love’s entire game, virtually, is a face-up game. Maybe I’m missing something here – can you say more?
Second, what do you think about Love’s ability to make up for his size deficit, e.g. footwork, smarts, etc.? I have read some reports that Love is not as unathletic as everyone says – e.g. McHale last night said he had a 39-inch vertical? (btw as much as I question McHale still being GM, I love his Wes Unseld reference – again, a totally different player, but anyone who brings Unseld’s name into the conversation, any conversation, is cool by me.) Having seen Love play he looked plenty athletic to me, I wonder if people just see his wide body and think “he’s slow and can’t jump.”
Finally, speaking of bigs, how about some love for Jason Collins? He has a huge body and is a beast on D and the boards when he wants to be. Played great for the Nets when they beat Toronto in the playoffs a couple of years ago, outplayed Bosh for long stretches – pushed him out way beyond where he likes to set up. I think this is a good pickup, both Al and Love can learn from him defensively.
I was a 6 foot forward
So yes, I guess that qualifies me :)
I actually think that Love has a chance to be better than Horford. I only make the Horford comparisons because Love gets labeled “slow and white” when, in fact, he’s pretty damn athletc; so much so that he measured out with the same athleticism as a guy who is decidedly not slow nor white.
Love has a far more versitle game and I may have been unclear in previous comparisons, but this has more to do with athleticism than anything else. Love is a damn talented player and the slow/white nonsense is the reason why Horford gets brought up.
Finally, I’ll say this about being undersized: I was a crappy, crappy HS basketball player on the JV squad. I was 6 feet tall, slow, and I couldn’t jump for shit. After HS I joined the military, lost about 20 lbs, grew 2 inches, gained about 8-10 inches on my vertical and became a point guard on a couple different big base teams. However, the biggest thing that helped me when I finally filled out was to have had played very, very small for a little while. If you learn how to operate in little spaces, you can get stuff done against much more athletic opponents (who after a while weren’t more athletic). While I’m not even in the same city as Love’s ballpark, I’m very sympathetic to players who a) get the slow/white rap because they “look” a certain way and b) play horizontally. Horizontal play doesn’t always mean you’re unathletic. It may simply mean that you played a lot of soccer and you view things like spacing and angles as being more important than speed and jumping ability.
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Ah, now I understand the Horford comparison: not playing style but athleticism. I agree, that’s a pretty nice comparison if you’re Love.
I agree with your spacing/angles take too. Examples here would be Nash or Brandon Roy, neither of whom is exceptionally quick, but each of whom seems to be always a few seconds ahead of everyone else in the development of a play. (Or, to use your soccer analogy: Juan Ramon Riquelme.) I think this argument works not only for offense but also defense: it has recently been pointed out that the Celtics are a great defensive team despite only having 2 great defenders (KG and Rondo) among the 5 starters, simply because they play so well together, know what the others are doing, force opposing players into bad/unproductive spots on the floor, etc.
by plinytheelder on Jun 27, 2008 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Peter...
...you’re not the only one with stuff showing up in MSM outlets. I just read an Aschburner article with this:
With all the Celtics’ nostalgia unleashed this month by their Finals appearance and 17th championship, it’s quite likely that McHale is chasing a proven old model. Think of Love as a poor man’s Bird, a passing, shooting and slightly unorthodox fit with a fierce competitive streak. Think of Jefferson as McHale, a low-post terror. Foye, if he’s lucky, gets to be Dennis Johnson, a clutch combo guard. And Miller is Ainge with more height and better range. That leaves, who, Collins as Robert Parish? Or maybe, in time, Thursday’s No. 31 pick, Serbian big man Nikola Pekovic.
Where have I heard that before?
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Here's...
...the original:
If ever you wonder about what the Iron Ranger is thinking about with the current crop of Timberwolves, all you need to do is ask yourself this: How does player x relate to the 86 Celtics?
As has been pointed out many times before, McHale’s entire basketball outlook is encased in the amber of the 86 Celts. As far as he’s concerned, basketball reached its pinnacle on the parquet floor in Boston 22 years ago and it’s been downhill ever since.
The way things stand right now, McHale has the updated version of himself in Al Jefferson. That’s about it. Randy Foye and Rashad McCants are both listed at 6’4” but neither has the game or grit of Ainge and Johnson. Foye seems to have the mental potential while McCants has the physical game, but it remains to be seen if either of them can put it together enough to be the 6’4” combo guard that McHale loves to the tune of Dennis and Danny.
Soooooo…if you subscribe to this take, here’s a few questions to answer:
Who is more Larry Bird: Danilo Gallinari or Kevin Love?
Who is more Robert Parrish: Brook or Robin Lopez?
Is OJ Mayo more Danny or Dennis than either Foye or McCants?
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I watched the press conference
I watched the press conference this afternoon and a reporters asked about Love’s size. McHale answered that Love will be fine because there are not a lot of ‘Yaos’ in the league anymore. He was explaining that Yao has that hookshot and no one can really stop that and Yao is going to do what he does, but a good number of the other teams out there, there are not a lot of good big men and Love should be able to exploit that.
I thought that was an interesting take
by DedicatedFollowerOfFashion on Jun 27, 2008 4:44 PM CDT reply actions

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