Measurements are Out
by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 3, 2008 12:18 PM CDT
8 comments
Here they are. As far as the Wolves are concerned, here's the biggies:
Michael Beasley measured at 6-7 without shoes, and 6-8 ¼ with. His wingspan in 7-0 ¼ and his standing reach is 8-11. He did fairly well in the combine, lifting the 185 bar 19 times, jumping 35 inches on the max vert, but measuring a slightly high body fat at 7.7%
Derrick Rose came out a bit shorter than advertised, at just 6-1 ½ in shoes and 6-2 ½ in. He has a 6-8 wingspan, a 40 inch vertical and ran the 3/4 court sprint very fast at 3.05.
Brook Lopez is a legit 7-footer in shoes. He also has a phenomenal 7-5 ½ wingspan and an outrageous 9-5 standing reach. He did not do very well at all in the combine though, jumping just 30 inches in the max vert and coming dead last in the lane agility drill at 12.77.
Kevin Love measured out reasonably well—6-9 ½ in shoes (6-7 ¾ without), with a 6-11 ¼ wingspan and an 8-10 standing reach. His body fat is still very high at 12.9%, but in the combine he jumped 35 inches, lifted the 185 bar 18 times, and ran very well (11.17, 3.22)
O.J. Mayo is 6-3 ¼ without shoes, 6-4 ½ with, with a 6-6 wingspan and 8-3 standing reach. He had the second best vertical leap at 41 inches and ran 11.04 and 3.14.
I guess the thing to note here is that Michael Beasley measured shorter than his numbers at last year's Nike Hoop Summit. Does this mean that Kevin Love is the same kind of athlete as B-Easy? They are essentially the same size with the same sorts of abilities. Something to think about? Does this increase Beasley's chances of falling to 3 as Chicago and Miami don't need a small forward? Does it make him a small forward? Is Love big enough to play the 4? The 5?
Finally, for those of you who think that Kevin Love is Sean May pt. ii, here's his official measurements. You can draw your own conclusions.
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Here’s a quick comparison:
Height in shoes
Player A: 6’9.75”
Player B: 6’9.5”
Weight
Player A: 246
Player B: 255
Wingspan
Player A: 7’0.75”
Player B: 6’11.25”
Reach
Player A: 8’11”
Player B: 8’10”
Body Fat
Player A: 9.1
Player B: 12.9
Standing Jump/Max Vertical
Player A: 31/35.5
Player B: 29.5/35
Bench Press Number
Player A: 20
Player B: 18
Agility
Player A: 12.15
Player B: 11.17
Sprint
Player A: 3.37
Player B: 3.22
Player A was was considered to have a prototypical NBA 4 body, with plus-plus athleticism and speed. He went 3rd overall last year: Al Horford. This is cherry picking on my part, but I did so because Horford was the first and most recent guy I could come up with who was considered a prototype frontcourt player.
Player B of course is Love.
So we see Love’s a smidge shorter and fatter, but, at least combinewise, which isn’t on-court but also not exactly a place you’d expect Love to show better agility and speed than Horford, is very much in Horford’s league athletically.
Love, at 19, is as tall as Big Al was when he was in predraft camp, although Al had a better wingspan and reach.
Anyway, very intriguing. I usually find this stuff to be almost comically overanalyzed (this coming from a guy who just did a measure-for-measure comparison) but in a case such as Love’s, where nobody disputes his body of work and his position will all come down to questions about his size and fitness, I think it’s pertinent.
Also, I think I heart Pat Calathes at one of those 2nd round picks. Awesome size for a 3.
by jianfu on Jun 3, 2008 1:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Pat Calathes...
...is a must if they keep the 2nd round picks. It’s not like he won’t be there with one of they don’t trade away the picks.
Wouldn’t it be funny if Love grew like 2 inches in 1 year after being drafted? Suddenly, he’d be a physical specimen: a 6’11” player with a 35 inch vertical who can bench press a ton.
by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 3, 2008 2:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Love comparisons
seeing him stacked up next to Horford makes me wonder if Love can’t play the 5. Horford is definitely of legitimate size to play Center.
by wyn on Jun 3, 2008 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Something
Love and his agent certainly weren’t oblivious to the fact that there were many doubts about his athleticism, so I have to wonder if Love trained specifically for these drills. What if Love was running the agility drill for the hundredth time and aided by professional instruction, whereas everybody else was running it for the first time without the benefit of such instruction? I mean, is Kevin Love really a better athlete than Corey Brewer?
by Sulla on Jun 3, 2008 3:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Drills
I don’t doubt Love had worked on this stuff, but I also find it highly unlikely all the other prospects (particularly those with agents) had not. I’m sure all the serious prospects have been prepping for the agility drills and what not since the end of the season. (They do in the NFL, at least.) There’s money lost for each draft slot lost, after all. And since these measurements are a potential avenue to separate your client from the others (good or bad), any agent worth his salt is going to make sure his guy goes in prepared.
And even if that weren’t the case, the fact that Love posted better agility times than noted athlete-first players such as Alexander and Dorsey is just a testamant to his work ethic/coachability.
Also, some of this stuff is more pure athletic ability than skill. Jumping and bench-pressing, for instance. I know there is some coaching involved in that, but I’m not sure how much it can add to an individual’s natural ability.
That’s not to say this absolves Love of everything. Running 3/4 court in a good time is fine and all, but for a guy with some weight issues, that doesn’t reflect his conditioning. Will he be able to run the floor in the 4th quarter if he stays in his current shape?
Nevertheless, for me, in terms of the Wolves, if the choice is going to come down to Love or Lopez, this should essentially seal it. Not only does Love have the far superior performance record (in the same conference at a younger age), but Lopez stumbled around at the combine while Love was impressive. I don’t really care if Lopez has superior size; if he can’t offer efficient play and athletically all he’s going to do is get in the way, then what’s the point? (Also, I don’t get where this idea in some MN media circles that Lopez is some Chandlerlike marvel who’s going to fly up and down, rebound, and protect the rim comes from. This combine data, along with his pedestrian collegiate rebounding, suggests otherwise.)
by jianfu on Jun 3, 2008 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This isn't the NFL
Combine results don’t carry as much weight with NBA GMs and scouts as they do with in the NFL, so I kind of doubt that any of these prospects really take the drills too seriously. Have you ever seen an NBA player’s stock rise or fall based on his lane agility numbers?
Like I said, how else do we explain Love outperforming Corey Brewer?
by Sulla on Jun 3, 2008 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DX posted an older link of theirs that highlight some of the limitations of combine measurements, as well as some stranger things that have happened in the past (things that make Brewer v. Love look calm in comparison):
http://www.draftexpress.com/blog/Jonathan-Givony/
I don’t know if Love’s a better athlete than Brewer-I think Love’s better at some things while Brewer’s better in others-I think Love had a better combine day.
But I do take away that Love should be fine. Like I said, if he can’t get in shape, I’d be concerned how effective he might be in back to backs, but he should be fine. I thought he was a very good prospect before this; the solid measurements and better-than-advertised athletic scores just reinforce that.
by jianfu on Jun 3, 2008 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everybody trains for these drills..
...also, Love and Lopez went head to head a couple of times and Love got the best of him each time. I agree that this should seal the deal in Love’s favor vis-a-vis Lopez…if it wasn’t already sealed before. Love went from a spare tire lug to an athlete in less than 2 months. That’s the type of off-court leadership that matters no matter if he is an average or above average player on the court.
by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 3, 2008 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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