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Turiaf Takes First Shot at Young Bigs' Market

While backup point guard remains the biggest personnel question mark for McHale and the gang, I for one am very curious to see what happens with Ryan Gomes and Craig Smith. Both are a little short for the front court, but both have shown that they have a lot to offer teams at the NBA level.

Well, the market for young forwards and centers just got a little clearer.

from Press-Enterprise

The Lakers are in wait-and-see mode regarding Ronny Turiaf, who has agreed to a four-year, $17 million deal with the Warriors. ... His deal would start at $4.2 million per season, a substantial raise over the $770,610 he made last season.

Over at the old Hoopus, I put up a couple stories that looked at what Gomes and Smith might cost this offseason. I pegged Gomes at 5yrs/$25 million and Craiggers at 3yrs/$12 million.

Gomes is slightly more proven and combines perimeter shooting with smart defense and spacing. Smith is a monster-scorer on the low block, but is easily overmatched on defense. Turiaf, by comparison, has a jumper, but is no deep threat, and can bang with the giants of the league on D.

What does this all mean for the Wolves? I think Gomes will be more sought-after than Turiaf. He's more versatile and is known as a great team player not only on the court, but on the bench and in the locker room. In comparison to other positions, Gomes would certainly seem to be better than Beno Udrih (who got the full MLE, 5yrs/$32 million, from the Kings) but less valuable than, say, Jose Calderon (5yrs/$40 million from the Raptors). Not to mention the fact that only one team (the Clippers) looks like they're willing to spend more than the MLE, and it wouldn't be on Gomes. I'd put my best guess for Gomes at Pietrus money right now (4yrs/$25 million) and say he's well worth it.

EDIT: [Stupid return button, submitting my story...] Back to Craig:

Smith, I would imagine, will get less than Turiaf for one simple reason: he's smaller. Sure Craig can pull down boards and put points on the board better than most, but size is always at a premium and big men who are defensive liabilites are always a problem. DeSagana Diop got the full MLE, and Marc Gasol got $10 million over three years. Both are bigger, one's experienced and one's a rookie. Craig should still be somewhere in between.

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Comments

Display:

Is Gomes worth 4 yrs/$25m?

In a word, no. Giving those kinds of deals to sixth men-and let’s face it, Gomes’ ceiling on a contending club is first option off the bench at 3 or 4-is the kind of decision that quickly gets teams into salary-cap hell. Gomes is a great guy and does a lot of things well, but he has no special talents as a scorer, defender, rebounder, or playmaker. It will be very interesting to see if he gets an offer sheet anywhere close to that figure (which, by the way, exceeds the MLE).

My guess for his top offer: 3 years, $11.5 mil.

by kurosawa on Jul 10, 2008 9:50 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The money aside....

I don’t like to see a non-starter get more than 3 years.

by Pants_ on Jul 10, 2008 9:51 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pants...

...I think you hit it on the head. The years in these deals are what is really problematic. It’s one thing to overpay a bench player for 1-2 years, but 3 and beyond is insane.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 10, 2008 10:54 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You know...

...instead of Gomes, I’d like to see them offer a full MLE to Josh Childress and see what happens.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 10, 2008 8:21 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think...

...the only way that would work is after Josh Smith’s situation is resolved. If Atlanta commits to a slightly, but ultimately necessary amount for Smith, there’s a chance they’d let Childress walk. But, I also wouldn’t be surprised to see a team like the Clippers offer him a bit more. I definitely like Childress’ game though. I think he’d fit in well.

by wyn on Jul 10, 2008 10:31 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He's a...

....Super Gomes.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 11, 2008 6:40 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Turiaf worth more than Gomes

As good a guy as Gomes is in the lockerroom, Turiaf is even better. He also is better on D guarding Bigs. In addition, Gomes has played for losing teams in Boston and last with the Wolves. Turiaf was in the rotation and a valuable member of a team that got to the finals.

I would be very, VERY surprised if Gomes received a better contract that Turiaf.

by Andy B on Jul 10, 2008 11:06 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gomes is better, but

I’d rather have Gomes on the Wolves roster, but Turiaf is riding his role on a good team, just as Maddog parlayed his NBA final experience into a solid contract for the Twolves. Turiaf is every bit as good as Maddog on the bench and in the lockerroom and hes a better player too.

by Andy B on Jul 10, 2008 11:09 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gomes perceived value?

If we can’t get Gomes for 1-2 years is his perceived value going to push him out of our rotation.

I know little to nothing about Carney but could McFail or someone in the FO figured out that in two seasons we are going to want flexibility so lets not sign a solid sixth man, Gomes, to a 3-5 year contract. I’d miss Gomes for his solid play and because I feel like he’s a solid character guy. I couldn’t blame him for wanting to jump ship to a contender either. Then again maybe he feels confident in what we are building here? I just don’t want to see us give up cap flexibility to have a guy that can play the 3/4 that’s only 6-7.

Will we be playing Miller at the 2 or the 3? Carney, Brewer, Miller, Gomes would probably be too many people vying for those 48 mn a night.

by DrakeSax82 on Jul 10, 2008 11:32 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Would be great to keep Gomes in a 2 year/ 10mil deal. That seems about fair to me. It might clear up space for Carney and others to play at the 3 but I really like his versatility and all that, you can use this kind a guy on almost any team.. which I think is very valuable.

Rhino has to go. It’s sad to find a pearl in the 2nd round and then to have to let him go but hey, it just doesn’t fit. I sure hope some kind of sign and trade will come and I definitly hope he’ll thrive in the NBA as a solid player.

i’m not really high in Turiaf, I got the feeling he looks better than he is because he’s playing on a good team… might be terribly wrong though.

by Wim (Belgium) on Jul 10, 2008 12:02 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hmm right after clicking that enter button, another thing comes to mind .. Gomes in any kind of sign and trade that gives us a very good PG (à la Conley) would also be great; though I don’t suppose that’s realistic?

by Wim (Belgium) on Jul 10, 2008 12:04 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wonder...

...how much CDR signed for with New Jersey….or what Chalmers will make in Miami. After thinking about it for a while, the thing that bugs me the most about this deal is that they had 2 1st round talents fall to them in the 2nd round without guaranteed money and they blew it. Screw Carney, they had a chance at a better player from Memphis who would have played the same position. Zero. Sense.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 10, 2008 12:05 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

re: CDR/Chalmers estimates

Chalmers: $700,000 / $756,000 / $812,000 (TO) based on this

CDR: $625,000 / $675,000 / $725,000 (TO) based on this

I’ll respond to the rest of the stuff later. Stupid work’s getting in the way.

by wyn on Jul 10, 2008 1:05 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agree Completely

I was dying when we had all of those guys fall to use with our 2nd round picks. I can sort of understand the euro pick because we’ll get him in a few years and by then maybe he’ll be a total stud and the Jefferson/Love/Pekovic front line. CDR and Chalmers not finding their way to our team really sucks.

I understand that we had sold that pick before it came to us but moving Chalmers…still gets me going. I was so PO when that happened, I almost threw the remote. Who knows maybe Chalmers will suck but he’d look nice here on our current roster.

Let’s hope we can move Gomes/Smith via sign and trade.

by DrakeSax82 on Jul 10, 2008 12:14 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would refer those of you...

...who are still clinging to resentment over the Chalmers and CDR decisions to the Jim Stack letter (posted at ESPN and other sites) for a detailed explanation of why the Wolves passed on them. These were VERY well-thought-out decisions.

by kurosawa on Jul 10, 2008 1:01 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I have several comments about this letter, I’m going to post them in a fanpost.. Re: what kind of deal Gomes will/should get: I have absolutely no idea, he’s a guy I find particularly difficult to evaluate. This is why I’m happy I don’t work in an NBA front office.

by plinytheelder on Jul 10, 2008 1:49 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Very well thought out...

....does not equal being correct. Has that email been verified? I emailed Mike Trudell about it but haven’t heard back yet. Has anyone received a verification? I think that their reasoning was very well thought out in its wrong-headedness. I get the Pekovic pick but it was inexcusable to give away that 2nd pick when those guys were still on the board…especially now that we’ve heard the lines about why Carney makes sense.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 10, 2008 2:32 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

PS:

I’m talking about the Chalmers/CDR aspect of the letter being wrong headed. Some of the other stuff is very interesting and solid…at least from my perspective. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 10, 2008 5:03 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was also murmuring a CDR mantra when our pick was coming up. I get it though that the trade wasn’t done yet, though even with the trade not done yet I don’t think they should have traded it. At least not for what they did.

I do think we have to move on from it and see what can happen now :)

by Wim (Belgium) on Jul 10, 2008 2:00 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

With the draft, trades, and FA in mind

I think the Wolves are going to be that much more interesting to watch this next season. All last year I would watch the games on a possession by possession basis instead of a game by game basis. I knew that we weren’t going to be winning much if at all. I was looking for improvements and for hints for the future. I think the roster we have right now will be ten times more entertaining to watch. Even if I’m not expecting more wins but just better possessions.

I’ll expect Shaddy to jack up shots early in possessions. Foye to not work the ball down to Love/Jefferson. I can start to see how this team will shape up in 2010 and on. Love might work out might not but I’ll love those 5-10 outrageous outlet passes you know he’ll be making to you name it for some sort of ESPN Top Ten dunk (or lay-up in Telfair’s case if we bring him back).

If we can’t find a PG we should bring back someone like El-Amin instead of any of the dopes on the summer league team if anything just for the local angle. I know that would be totally stupid but whatever give him a few 10 day contracts and see what tred he’s got left. Maybe we could have a 10 day contract revolving wheel sort of magical PG deal. Every 10 days we bring in a new worthless PG, I’m sure the FO could find a way to spin that into a promotion.

by DrakeSax82 on Jul 10, 2008 4:08 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

arm over the eyes dee brown?

or went to illinois dee brown? cause don’t look now, but he just signed an offer sheet with the wiz!

by wyn on Jul 10, 2008 10:34 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good for him

No clue really how he fits in with the Wizards depth but good for Dee Brown. That injury he had in the playoffs was just unfortunate. I’m not sure he’s got NBA game but heck he’s making NBA money.

by DrakeSax82 on Jul 11, 2008 12:12 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

definitely Illinois DB…I think he’ll be a fine NBA backup, plus he’s got a dope website, “the one man fast break” -

http://www.deebrown11.com/

- on which he reports that his Turkish team (Galatasaray) didn’t pay him for this past year? What’s up with that, they are a huge organization, probably rich as f*, anyways if that’s the case glad he signed with the Wiz, fun player and good guy.

by plinytheelder on Jul 11, 2008 1:55 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Also had him on my draft board for our 2nd round pick there :)

by Wim (Belgium) on Jul 11, 2008 2:53 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They have a reputation

For not paying internationals. If I remember correctly Sol Cambell, the English National Team defender had some issues when he left Arsenal. Galatasary didn’t pay him that’s too bad but he’s getting NBA money now.

by DrakeSax82 on Jul 11, 2008 8:37 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Paul Shirley's book "Can I keep my jersey"

Is not only a really good read, but he talks about the problems with payment for some international clubs.

by wyn on Jul 11, 2008 10:20 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Get over it, it was only a 2nd round pick

CDR and Chalmers are nice players, but it’s a long shot that either will be a star in this league. At the time the wolves were drafting in the 2nd round they had a glut of point guards and off-guards. That all changed a few hours later, but at the time it DEFINITELY made sense to parlay the 2nd 2nd round pick into 2million and 2 2nd round picks next year. Great, these guys are tearing up summer league, so what? If one of these guys becomes a rotation player it isn’t a big deal. Only if one becomes an all-star will I get upset. Plus, now Foye and McCants are the main men and we’ll know by the end of the season if they are here to stay in Minnesota. If not, there are another 20 guards next year that are all in the same class as those 2 in the 2nd round. So please, stop the 2nd round pick complaining until one of those 2 become an all-star.

Peace.

by DR_JPK on Jul 10, 2008 6:10 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   1 recs

Do Over?

Not that they have any resemblance as players, but is it me, or does anyone else see some parallels between Gomes’ RFA and Trenton Hassell’s? Both were/are considered good role players and good citizens, and both do/did enough to interest other teams to the point where matching an offer may not be in the Wolves best interest over the long run.

I guess I agree with the sentiment that so long as the deal isn’t more than 3 years, they should be fine. More than that and you’re asking for trouble. And to be fair, teams in general seem to be acting more restrained now than they did when Hassell signed his deal, so perhaps they’re safe. And seeing as how the Wolves are acting differently than in the past -either because they’ve learned from their mistakes or they’re simply operating under a different mode (rebuilding)-I’d be surprised if they paid retail on a decent-but-limited player like Gomes. Or Smith. We’ll see.

by jianfu on Jul 10, 2008 9:03 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

FAs and Summer Leaguers

Other than Chauncey Billups, can anybody remind me of a player who the Wolves let go to another team via free agency, and then the player had a great deal of success? I remember moaning, “Why?? Why?” when they didn’t match Rasho’s offer. Look at him now.

And Loren Woods averaged a double-double one summer league. That is all.

by BOOM!I'mChrishHanshen on Jul 10, 2008 9:34 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was really heartened...

...by McHale’s comments about the Wolves being a 22 win club and that they weren’t going to loose too much sleep over not resigning any of the free agents. As long as they keep 2010 relatively clean and they use some of these assets…then they’re good.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 10, 2008 10:00 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What, there's no THud out there?

I’m beginning to be convinced that we may be living in the twilight zone. Anyone else feel like a few years ago, Taylor and McHale would be out there saying how they had to resign Gomes and Telfair because they are a critical part of our future? Now they’re actually being rational—nice players, but not cornerstones, and they certainly didn’t move the needle in terms of wins last year. Or maybe it was KG telling them that they had to resign THud after that great series against the Lakers. . .

Gomes is a nice player and other than AJ he was one of the few guys who was consistently fun to watch on the court this year. But he’s obviously much more valuable as a key role player on a (very) good team, but we certainly don’t need to overpay him or give him a lot of years at this point (why not overpay him for two?). Plus, Carney at least makes Gomes a little more redundant, assuming you really don’t expect to be THAT good next year. There are worse things than starting Brewer & MIller at the 2 & 3 and letting Foye play the point. That way you have two shooters on the perimiter with Love & AJ and Brewer can presumably help on Miller’s defensive deficiencies. You then have McCants/Carney as backups and can play Foye some at the 2 if you have a competent backup point guard (Telfair). I’m not arguing that it won’t make us worse if Gomes leaves, but it doesn’t really impact the long-term plan. If we’re competitive in 2-3 years and we need to use the MLE to overpay for a key role player (the James Posey equivalent in 2011), that will be a GREAT problem to have. And if you don’t have Gomes, Smith becomes a more viable backup at the 4 at significantly less cost and shorter contract.

Telfair is a tougher one to me, becuase a) he’s going to cost significantly less than gomes, I think, and b) the team is going to have to find a backup point guard one way or another. And there has to be some benefit to the fact that Telfair has proven he can run the system and knows his teammates. Seems to me that continuity at point guard is just more valuable because he’s the guy running the offense. Telfair is not perfect, but playing 12-24 minutes he can be valuable, and if Foye proves to be injury-prone, he’ll be worth that much more. I’d hate to see the Wolves save a few bucks on aother guy who then has to come in and try to fit in when you can get Telfair for a modest amount.

by Sterno on Jul 10, 2008 11:22 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We need a point

I understand that if we had kept Telfair as a restricted FA we would have had to give him a fairly decent sized contract next season. Letting him go and attempting to resign him to a smaller deal made sense from that standpoint and at the time we had what three other PG on the roster. Now, we’ve got Foye so it looks a little more silly but where Jaric and Buckner reliable back-ups at the point? Again we’ve got two years to get the PG position fixed so let’s not blow our flexibility on a guy (Telfair) that’s probably just a back-up.

Same thing should be said about Gomez. I could deal with over-paying for 2 years. We’ve got a ton of picks coming in the near future. Let’s see if Carney has anything. Then just stock-up on late first rounders and random seconds and just roll the dice for two years.

We’ve got to be trading some of these picks right? We can’t honestly plan on bringing in four or five guaranteed three year contracts over the next two drafts with what another four or five second round picks. Maybe we’ll just stash a team over in Europe via second rounders. We’ve got a full-time scout over there now don’t we, well I think he’s full-time but maybe he’s located in LA still.

by DrakeSax82 on Jul 11, 2008 12:21 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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