harsh words for Love

by plinytheelder on Jul 21, 2008 10:34 AM CDT

This is from Chris Mannix's summer league review at si.com, thought I'd post it if only because he seems to be bucking the trend here - I think a lot of people are coming around to Love after the summer league, but definitely not Mannix. (ps Bryant Reeves? ouch!)

If you read this space regularly -- and I know there are at least three of you -- you know that I am not a member of the Kevin Love Fan Club. It's not that I don't see him having a long NBA career; in fact, I think Love can be a serviceable forward for the next 10-12 years. But when you are taken with the fifth pick in the draft (and traded for a potential star like O.J. Mayo), you are expected to be more than a more skilled Bryant Reeves.

Statistically speaking, Love acquitted himself well in Las Vegas: In four games, he averaged 18 points and a league-best 13.5 rebounds. He was unquestionably one of the most skilled players on the floor and at times showcased a well-placed mean streak. But dominating Lorenzo Mata-Real is a lot different than picking apart Tim Duncan.

"You see all those pump fakes?" an Eastern Conference coach said. "He can do that against this competition. But he tries that [stuff] against Duncan or [Kevin] Garnett and it's going nowhere. At the end of the day, you have to remember he's a 6-8 guy who plays below the rim."

Here's something more disconcerting: Love is considered by some to be a major injury waiting to happen. An NBA front-office source with a team who worked out Love described him as a "train wreck" physically, pointing to his surgically repaired knee as the biggest point of concern.

Then there is the question of Love's weight. Several league sources I talked to expressed concern that Love, who dropped 15 pounds and reduced his body fat from 15-16 percent to 11-12 percent in the months leading up to the NBA draft, will put that weight back on once the regular season starts.

Stay tuned.

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Defense is the question mark.

Immediately after the draft, it seemed like there was a 50/50 split on fans who liked or didn’t like the trade. I was one who didn’t, but my concerns had nothing to do with offense, and I think it’s almost irrelevant whether Love’s head-fakes will work on Tim Duncan. Jefferson is our low-post player and Love will help spread the floor and let Al operate. The summer league showed off some of Love’s offensive skills, especially his passing—which was justifiably hyped before the draft.

The main criticisms of the trade were that such a high pick should be used on a cornerstone piece next to Jefferson, and Love cannot be that piece if the two of them cannot defend the paint together. It’s a question that won’t get answered until the real season begins.

by Andy G on Jul 21, 2008 2:02 PM CDT 0 recs

My problem with Mannix's column

Mannix is entitled to his opinion of Love, although the Bryant Reeves comparison is patently ludicrous. What aggravates me are his quotes from unnamed sources that conveniently support his own opinion. If that source who thinks Love is a “train wreck waiting to happen” actually exists (I suspect that a lot of these kinds of quotes are simply made up), then he is in a small minority. Every medical report I read prior to the draft said Love checked out fine and that his knees are of no particular concern, short-term or long-term.

Love’s critics just don’t get his game. They think, “short slow white guy with no hops.” He is definitely outside the mold, a revelation that will soon dawn on the Chris Mannixes of the web world.

by kurosawa on Jul 21, 2008 5:52 PM CDT 0 recs

yeah I agree...

...the Reeves comparison is pretty dumb. Shows how spot-on your point is: because he’s difficult to categorize, people make silly comparisons.

I used to really dislike Mannix but I’ve sort of warmed to him, I think he makes interesting observations now and again, here’s hoping he’s wrong on this one.

by plinytheelder on Jul 21, 2008 6:51 PM CDT up 0 recs

no doubt

If he wanted to make a skilled-big man comparison, one whom also had a perceived weight problem (although with Love, the jury is still out) he shoulds gone for the big O (and i mean BIG) Oliver Miller or sweetney, super-talented, slightly undersized, but when their conditioning got out of whack, they were completely un-athletic. Reeves was tall, that’s all. Love is not even tall for his position.
Freakin’ lazy, possibly race-based comparisons.

by tkired on Jul 22, 2008 12:28 PM CDT up 0 recs

Yeah I agree...

...that is brilliant – especially since the Big O (whom I love – never a dull moment) once called himself “the best passer in the NBA”! Love has a ways to go before he can fill Miller’s shoes.

(ps apologies to Oscar Robertson for borrowing his nickname)

by plinytheelder on Jul 22, 2008 12:40 PM CDT up 0 recs

big O

didn’t he also liken himself to magic johnson in that interview?

i do have to say that there was one time during that glorious big O season when KG got our man the ball on a “fast” break—it doesn’t get much better than that.

by secretarykissinger on Jul 30, 2008 12:06 AM CDT up 0 recs

incidentally

The big O was last sighted on court in 2005, playing for the Arkansas RimRockers of the ABA.

by secretarykissinger on Jul 30, 2008 12:51 AM CDT up 0 recs

yeah I wonder what he's up to now...

...most recent thing I can find on the interweb is a video of him being interviewed earlier this year, but it doesn’t say what he’s up to:

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/ex-swc-star-oliver-miller-at-the-hall-of-fame/1574197540

I also read about a pretty disgusting incident with him and the mascot of the Phx Suns:

http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/news/sports.html

including this excellent quote from players union director Bill Hunter: “I don’t know what a gorilla has to do with the Valley of the Sun.”

by plinytheelder on Jul 30, 2008 2:07 AM CDT up 0 recs

O

man, that Phoenix-Miller story kind of bummed me out. And by what measure was that gorilla the “premier mascot in all of team sports”?

by secretarykissinger on Jul 30, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up 0 recs

I think the editor (if there is one for this column)...

...should be fired. Enough with the anonymous sources crap. I’d bet the guy just cherry picked or made up the quotes.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 21, 2008 8:11 PM CDT 0 recs

I read this too, it’s laughable, absolutely laughable. The guy is just trying to pull attention to himself by going against the flow and being negative.

Sure there are some concerns for his weight but how would he know that Love is going to put that fat back on. As if nobody in the world has been able to successfully loose weight, let alone professional athlethes who hire nutricionistinsitnsitnsitn (sorry that one’s too hard for me :p) and whatnot. Has this guy got a crystal ball or something that he now already knows what’s going too happen. Come on, if he really was a train wreck waiting to happen to T-wolves medical staff would have figured that out, don’t tell me they haven’t checked him and know in exactly what medical condition he is in…

Sure he’s not Lebron, he’s not gonna go 18 and 15 like he did in Summer League. Sure he’s gonna struggle against KG (who doesn’t? even the Lakers struggled against the Celtics D), but you know, that’s obvious, he’s a 19 yr old rookie, he’s not supposed to dominate KG or Duncan. Not right away anyway.

A certain part of the inward signing song from Tenacious D comes to mind here. This guy is just naysaying, just for the sake of it.

by Wim (Belgium) on Jul 22, 2008 1:49 AM CDT 0 recs

I've been told by numerous sources...

...that Chris Mannix likes goats…big ones with soft fur.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 22, 2008 7:55 AM CDT 0 recs

Hate to disagree, but I agree

I may be in the minority here, but I kind of agree with Mannix. Not about the “major injury waiting to happen” part, cause that is just dumb.

But the rest of it is spot on. He is 6’8” and plays below the rim. We can hope his “instincts” make up for the athleticism he’ll be lacking, but that is wishful thinking if you ask me. He was dominating guys two-thirds of whom will not be on an NBA roster in December. He’ll be a solid NBA player but he his best attribute is being a 6’8” passer. As a team we will be scary-bad on defense and still are lacking a center. When

Miller + Love is greater than Mayo, but Mayo comes into the league with an NBA ready 3-pnt shot and NBA ready defensive skills. In the long run he is potentially your 2nd best player. Love brings us NBA caliber passing skills and at best will be a third or fourth option.

And finally, if you want a good comparison for Love look at Christian Laettner. Probably a better attitude but you are looking at a solid career but never better than a third or fourth best option.

by GopherNation on Aug 12, 2008 4:53 PM CDT 0 recs

I think these are good points, but I’m going to take a wait-and-see attitude re: Love. I think he’s more athletic than people think. I’ll have to respectfully disagree on Laettner – I basically think Love is head and shoulders above where he ever was – far more athletic, gets off the ground better (people might laugh but Love has had some really nice dunks), much stronger, better shooter, more creative passer and player in general. If Love turns out to be another Laettner, this draft will have been a dismal failure for the Wolves.

by plinytheelder on Aug 12, 2008 6:39 PM CDT up 0 recs

Thanks for the comments GN and welcome...

...I think there are legit concerns about Love’s game and that my complaints about Mannix have to do with his poor journalistic method.

If Love can rebound at a high level as well as pass within an NBA setting while being a 3rd or 4th scoring option with an especially nice mid-range game, I think the Wolves will be quite happy with the choice. Defense is the big concern. I think he will rebound at a very high rate and have a very developed high post game. If this is true and if his outlet passing and interior passing are as advertised, OJ Mayo would have to pan out as a perennial All Star to make the deal look bad.

I tend to agree with plinytheelder that Love is a better player than Laettner, especially in terms of pro potential.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Aug 12, 2008 6:58 PM CDT up 0 recs

Well, I don't know

Love certainly might not pan out—plenty of guys don’t. I like him—I think it’s clear that he has particular skills that can translate.

But here’s what irritates me, because it’s SO lazy: the “…he won’t be able to do that against Duncan or KG…” well, yeah. Those guys are perennial all-stars and the best big men in the game—it’s an absurd standard. Can he succeed against NBA caliber players is the question that deserves serious thought.

by Eric in Madison on Aug 18, 2008 1:23 PM CDT 0 recs