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ATHENS, Greece -- Josh Childress signed a reported three-year deal worth $20 million with the Greek club Olympiakos after leaving the Atlanta Hawks.

Olympiakos announced the deal Wednesday. The guard was a restricted free agent, but the Hawks do not have the ability to match an offer from a European team.

"It's official. I've signed," Childress said. "I was in a situation that I really didn't know what my answer would be when I got to Athens. But it's a great city and a great team, and they did everything to make me feel at home."

From ESPN. This is huge. NBA teams cannot match offers from Euro squads. Brandon Jennings and Childress have opened up a can of worms that are going to change college and pro ball forever.

Link 11 months ago Img_2487_tiny Stop-n-Pop Comment 22 comments 0 recs |

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Another interesting storyline in the NBA. The Spurs-Cavs finals seem so far away…

I wonder how the NBA is going to try to tackle this. I sure hope they will for the sake of watching games. If the best talent gets scattered around the world the NBA will be less fun to watch. All the best talent should be in one league.

by Wim (Belgium) on Jul 23, 2008 12:05 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wow! Very interesting developments this summer…

It’s interesting that you say that Wim, but I agree.

I think that the danger for the NBA is mid-tier guys like this, but it seems to me top talent is not in jeopardy of leaving, not yet.

by Matty_P on Jul 23, 2008 12:12 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The way...

...this needs to be addressed is for the NBA’s CBA to be rewritten to allow for teams to match Euro offers on some sort of sliding scale that takes into account the tax advantages and exchange rate. The problem with this is that high-end guys will find that this sort of thing would benefit them even more than mid-level guys.

I ultimately think that this (and Jennings) is good for the game. I’d love to see the NBA shorten its regular season, crown a reg season champion, and then have a tourney that would get the best 2 teams into a final 4 playoff with Euro teams. This is an international game that should be right along side of soccer in terms of a true world championship and appeal. There needs to be a 4 year FIBA tourney as well as a champions league style tourney. I want to get all crazy and dress up in red, white, and blue and go cheer on our best league team in a true world championship. I also want the NBA to have its owners move closer to a club style model. I think the NBA should partner with college teams and pipeline talent from high school to the pros. The NCAA is too high and mighty to make it work but the NBA could pressure them to make it work.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 23, 2008 12:58 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not sure I agree with Wim on this, I don’t mind talented players going elsewhere, soccer doesn’t seem to suffer for the talent being scattered in different countries. Love the idea of a shorter season, I don’t know how many games the good teams end up playing in Europe (between domestic leagues and international tournaments) but surely it can’t be the crazy number NBA teams play? Boston for example played 108 games not including exhibition – to me that’s absolutely ridiculous. I think 50 games is plenty. I don’t know what all the ramifications of this are, revenue obviously becomes a problem, but hey the Euro teams do it.

I like the idea of a world club championship too…but will you wear just red and white without the blue when the Raptors make it? ;)

by plinytheelder on Jul 23, 2008 1:12 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If the Raptors make it...

...well, I’ll have to hope that I get transferred to Toronto first. :)

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 23, 2008 1:38 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If the Wolves...

...wanted a 1/2/3, I think he just left the country. Would he have taken the full MLE to come up here? I guess we’ll never know but I had said it a few times a while back: Childress > Gomes.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 23, 2008 4:17 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

“I don’t mind talented players going elsewhere, soccer doesn’t seem to suffer for the talent being scattered in different countries”

The problem with this is that you can’t compare European countries to the US country. A European country should be compared to US states. Most US states are even bigger and have more people in them than European countries. So actually the soccer talent from all over the world is only scattered over the European countries while basketball talent is only scattered over the NBA states.

The difference is that the NBA just has 30 teams, geographically dispersed as much as possible so that everyone has a team close to home. Soccer has lots and lots of teams and just wastes a season first to sort out the best 30 and THEN lets them compete in the Euro league. These national competitions to determine the best 30 teams are extremely uninteresting in my view. Because we have no rules on spending, no draft, etc.. the outcome is always the same. It always about the same 30 teams that make it. The level of play in national leagues is also very low, especially here in Belgium because all big name players are playing in Italy, Spain, ...

The NBA system is way better. I’d kill for a system where every Euro country had just one team and that money didn’t really matter. I think I’d be great to have a team like “The Belgian Lions” that has an equal chance to be the best team of Europe compared to the Italian Boots or the Spanish Matadors. European soccer competition isn’t interesting to go watch because all we can see is our Belgian teams getting completely obliterated in the first round.

So actually the talent is concentrated in about the same amount of teams in soccer as it is with basketball, just in a different way.

I think I’d be a pain for European soccer fans if they suddenly had to start watching not only the UEFA but also the Brasilian or the Chinese league to see quality play. For the same reason I wouldn’t like that I’d suddenly have to see 4 leagues to see some quality play.

-On the international tourney thing

To make it a bit competitive Euro teams would have to get a lot stronger.
If Euro teams can get good enough without weakening the NBA I’d be OK with it. If the gap is closed by weakening the NBA to make the Euro league stronger I’m against it. We’d then get into the same system where there’s first a lot of national competition that has low level of play. I simply think there’s not enough talent around (yet) to make Euro teams compete with NBA teams without sabotaging the NBA teams.

I’m thinking that for the chance to dress up in red, white and blue it might turn out that it’s no longer intereseting to dress up in regular T-wolves blue because too many of the interesting players have gone away.

Besides, you guys are best at making sports a true form of entertainment! No doubt about that.

Not sure I’m getting all of this right though. Feel free to comment on this!

This must be the most edited post of my life, 2 and half hours straight ^^.

by Wim (Belgium) on Jul 24, 2008 5:02 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wim, thanks for your thoughtful post. I have a few friendly objections, but I think you raise a lot of excellent points.

I see what you mean about the sheer number of soccer teams in Europe, and the disparity between the big and the small leagues. Not sure I totally agree – I know the smaller leagues have a lot of trouble, but in the big leagues – Italy, Spain, England, Germany and France – the quality is pretty high across the board. (Even the smaller leagues sometimes end up producing excellent sides, like Porto a few years ago, or Galatasaray a few years before that.) Also let’s remember that Europe is much bigger – almost two-and-a-half times bigger, population-wise, than the U.S. – and that soccer is the clear number one sport, hence there will be a bigger pool of good soccer players to choose from.

Of course, there are a few giants from these leagues that usually win their domestic leagues, and compete against one another for the European competitions. The problem here, of course, if we move back to basketball, is that these teams don’t have an nba-style salary cap – hence you have Real Madrid simply buying the best players from, say, Atletico or Celta Vigo (or Anderlecht, for that matter), or Chelsea from Everton. Clearly, this is a problem – at least in the nba, in a place like Minnesota, we can have the hope of being competitive despite the fact that New York, Dallas, etc. are much richer clubs. (Then again, haven’t LA and Boston won something like half of the NBA championships between them?) So I agree with you, this is like comparing apples and oranges, and I also prefer the nba system to soccer. One could imagine a scenario in which an nba team with a salary cap was competing against a rich European club without one – and in a way this is what happened with Childress: the Hawks simply couldn’t offer him as much as Olympiakos, which is not even one of the real giants of Euro basketball.

You make an interesting point about diluting talent. I agree that this makes for poorer-quality basketball. I just don’t know what to do about it. After all you can’t force a guy like Childress to sign for less money here than he would get in Europe. It makes me think of all those summer-league guys about whom we all said “there’s no way he’s good enough to play in the nba” – but they will be very soon, if more guys like Childress leave. I guess that all I can say about this is: we’ve had it pretty good here for a while, seeing basically all (well at least 95% or so) of the best players playing here. But I think this will become less and less the case, and I don’t see what anyone can do about it.

The point has also been made that Childress is something of a special case. The guy is extremely bright, scored very high on his SATs, went to Stanford, and regularly travels in the summer. I know that when I was his age all I wanted to do was leave home and see the world (well I still do, but that’s another matter). So people make the argument that only “kids like Childress” will want to go abroad. Frankly I’m very uncomfortable with this argument, I won’t go into all the reasons why but I will say that for me, it doesn’t hold much water – who wouldn’t want to live in luxury in Europe while making twice as much as could be made in the U.S.?

Anyways this comment is already too long so I’ll stop. Last point: I think there’s an interesting philosophical discussion to be had about the seemingly egalitarian structure of the nba versus the “rich get richer” structure of European soccer and, it seems, basketball. In a way it seems to contradict the “spirit” of both places: after all, don’t we always think of the U.S. as a place where capitalism has gone wild, while Europe is seen as much more socially even, with smaller wealth disparities, etc.? Anyways enough already.

by plinytheelder on Jul 24, 2008 10:57 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good points!

When typing down my most-edited that same thought from your last paragraph here came to my mind too ^^.

by Wim (Belgium) on Jul 24, 2008 11:44 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks – oh and I forgot to mention in my post, love the team names you suggest! Spanish “Matadors” and Italian “Boots”? HILARIOUS! Just one suggestion though: if they get comical names, shouldn’t the Belgian team get one too – maybe instead of the “Lions” they should be the “Waffles” or something? The “Cyclists”? The “Plat Pays”? ;)

by plinytheelder on Jul 24, 2008 12:41 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

:D. Really digging the Waffles. The Belgian national team is already called Lions I think so that name wouldn’t be available anyway ^^.

by Wim (Belgium) on Jul 24, 2008 12:45 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Euro teams get stronger...

...by taking the NBA’s mid-level talent and aging stars. They also keep the home grown talent. I wouldn’t be surprised to see that Russian team knock off a pre-season game or two this year. The gap isn’t that big in team ball. Over a 7 games series it probably is, but not in a short tourney (Final Four) or single game matchup. If last year’s Wolves won 22…anything can happen :)

The NBA will have to resign themselves to lose the mid-level talent while adopting a different relationship with college. Either they change it or it changes them. I’ll have a post on it in a while.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 24, 2008 5:34 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’ve seen all of the Europe Live tour games so yea, the difference for only a few games could maybe work. Looking forward to your post :p

by Wim (Belgium) on Jul 24, 2008 6:37 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hmmm...

”..this needs to be addressed is for the NBA’s CBA to be rewritten to allow for teams to match Euro offers on some sort of sliding scale that takes into account the tax advantages and exchange rate. The problem with this is that high-end guys will find that this sort of thing would benefit them even more than mid-level guys.”

The issue here is that the Hawks can’t stop Childress leaving the country; this scenario cannot be regulated from within the US. Atlanta retain his FA rights whenever he wishes to return, but if he never comes back, that is all they will have. FWIW, I imagine ATL will come up with a better deal this time next year or trade his rights.

The only way to stop it would be to have an international contract/release system run by FIBA. I can’t imagine the NBA givng over that right to FIBA.

by Auswolf on Jul 24, 2008 5:56 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bad for us, good for everyone else

No one would be mroe bummed than me if the talent dropped off (or even leveled off) in the NBA. Needless to say seeing the “best players in the world” (American, European or otherwise) come through Target Center is something I look forward to, even when our team sorely lacks talent. If that happened quickly (which is doubtful to me), I’d be bummed.

But hopefully this is a shot across the bow for the NBA (and ESPECIALLY the NCAA). Competition is good. Particularly for the NCAA, where the NBA’s “1-year post high school” rule has allowed them to keep their gravy train rolling by getting talented kids who clearly have no intention of staying 4 years and graduating. All the hype that has been generated by Durant/Oden and Beasley/Rose/Mayo/Love the last two years has certainly benefited March Madness, the NCAA and CBS. If Europe becomes a viable alternative for young players who don’t have the inclination or aptitude to get into college, that’s great. Maybe the NBA will set up a true minor league where players can actually get paid real money. This in some ways addresses the inconsistency as to why baseball players can be drafted immediately out of HS and get big signing bonuses but basketball players can’t.

I agree this will not be the answer for everyone. Take Gomes: apparently he just had a kid. So it’s not just moving himself over it’s moving his wife and young child (or not). A little different for Childress (assuming he’s not married with children). But I bet more players will start exploring the world, which will be a really good thing. If I’m an agent (or a street runner), i’m definitely playing up the drinking age in Euope, let alone the fun that can be had legally in amsterdam . . .

by Sterno on Jul 24, 2008 3:22 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed...

...though frankly, if I’m Gomes and someone offers me a ton of cash, and as long as my wife was cool with it, the kid wouldn’t matter – if anything I’d be looking into getting him an EU passport!

by plinytheelder on Jul 24, 2008 3:43 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Delfino to make more than Ginóbili

OK I know I have a million posts on here so sorry about that, but this is interesting: I just read that Carlos Delfino, moving from Toronto to a Russian team next year for – get this – $30 million over 3 years, will be making more than Manu Ginóbili. I kid you not. I don’t want to take this too far, and I know that Russia is flush with money right now (well rich Russians anyways), but I’m starting to wonder how NBA teams are even going to compete.

by plinytheelder on Jul 24, 2008 9:40 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The CBA...

...will have to be changed to reflect the new realities. Of course, Stern hasn’t and likely won’t do anything here because his job is to make owners money and right now, the market is slow and his owners stand to make a lot if stuff like this happens on a small scale. There is a tipping point however, and he’ll act like a smug asshole until it’s too late.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 25, 2008 5:20 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agree

Stern will probably wait too long. I think that the NBA might have a tough time by say 2011 or so heck maybe even earlier. The NBA is going to have to get something going pretty soon though.

by DrakeSax82 on Jul 25, 2008 9:34 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Great discussion, all

I have often wondered why minor league basketball has struggled so much here when minor league baseball and hockey systems seem so established.

In terms of restructuring the CBA, I wonder if first round draft pick contracts (ie guaranteed, money & terms non negotiable) will stay the same.

Don’t have much else to add except: that if offered to play basketball professionally and get paid millions exists for 18 year olds HS graduates, you can bet many will be following the money. Even if they never get to the NBA.

This Childress/Jennings stuff seems to be the tip of the iceberg.

by Matty_P on Jul 25, 2008 3:48 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

One more thing

Continuing on the rookie contracts, if a highly touted rookie wants more than ~$4 million a year, why doesn’t he just go to Europe and get paid like Childress?

I don’t know how long draft rights are held, but could someone conceivably forgo the rookie contract and go right to becoming a UFA?

The downside to this (for the player financially) would be that a team wouldn’t hold his Bird rights and since every team is almost always over the salary cap, it would be hard to get a max contract without first playing in the NBA for 3 years.

by Matty_P on Jul 25, 2008 3:53 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think Jennings....

...is actually the NBA’s biggest threat (which is a good thing). If high schoolers can go over there and make good money while getting their teams big buyouts when they’re drafted, that’s a tough thing to compete against.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 25, 2008 4:46 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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