Surely there must be something else...

by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 8, 2008 8:21 PM CDT

As you most likely already know, it has been reported that the Wolves have moved a trade exception and a future 2nd round pick to Philly for Rodney Carney, Calvin Booth, and a future 1st that is believed to be the pick owed to the 76ers by the Utah Jazz.

While I'm a big fan of accumulating additional 1st round picks, I'm not sure this trade is a good deal unless the Wolves can move some of their assets for a backup (or starting) point guard. Keeping Carney on the squad simply doesn't make a lot of sense.

	Age	PER	PPR	usgR	FT/FG	eFG	ORtg	DRtg	RebR
Rodney Carney	23	12.26	-1.2	18.5	14	45.2	103	107	8.5
Gerald Green	22	7.9	-3.62	25.1	28	39.4	87	112	5.2
Kirk Snyder	24	13.50	-1.2	15.9	34	52.1	106	111	9.6

These are some basic efficiency stats for 3 players the Wolves had their hands on in the past year for very, very, very few dollars. First off, good ol' Cupcake sucks. He sucks in just about every way imaginable. His replacement, Mr. Snyder, was significantly better; he got to the line, carried a 50+ eFG, and his ORtg/DRtg +/- was far less horrifying than Cupcake's. Carney had below average stats for Philly. His PER was below Snyder's, he didn't get to the line as much as an athletic 6'6" wing should, he didn't shoot the ball well, and he's not that great of a rebounder. Basically, the Wolves had a slightly advanced version of Carney already on the roster. An additional 1st rounder is nice, but...

One of the most interesting things to note about Carney's game is that 52% of his shots in his senior year in college were from beyond the arc. He made 39.1% of these treys. In his freshman year, the ratio was 55/36.3; sophomore was 51/37.1; and junior was 45/32.5. During this time of massive 3 point jacking, he carried a FTRate (FT/100 FGA) of 28, 22, 27, and 26. Upon reaching the NBA, not only did his percentage of 3s decrease by a massive amount (18% in his 1st year; 31% in year 2), but his 3FG% and FTRate did so as well. Is it any wonder that a guy who can't get to the line or shoot the 3 struggles to be an average or above average player in the Association?

Let's imagine for a moment that the Wolves will keep Carney on the roster. Where will he play? What will happen to Ryan Gomes? Who will play backup point? Who will give spot starts at the point should something happen to Randy Foye? Here's how the roster looks right now:

Foye
McCants, Brewer
Miller, Carney
Love, Cardinal
Jefferson, Collins, Madsen

Unsigned: Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, Chris Richard, and Craig Smith. (I know that I'm not including Booth in this equation, nor will I as he's terrible.)

Additional 1st round picks are nice, but the only way this trade makes sense is if the Wovles can move some assets for a point guard. Otherwise...well, I have no idea what this trade accomplishes outside of that context. Carney is a very average player who seems to be a cross between 2 players the Wolves already had and let go. It's hard to get too worked up about Cupcake-esque athleticism with Snyder-esque numbers. He may play better d than either Cupcake or Snyder, but...I just don't get this trade if they don't make any more moves.

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There will be something else...

This will turn into a three-way trade with Memphis in which the Grizz gets Carney and the Wolves get Lowry.

by kurosawa on Jul 8, 2008 8:34 PM CDT 0 recs

I sure as hell hope so.

Hell, swing for the fences and offer up Carney, sign-and-traded Smith, the Celtic pick, and the Utah pick for Conley. Memphis’ GM seems to be crazy enough to allow for such a thing to happen. :)

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by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 8, 2008 8:39 PM CDT up 0 recs

According to Aschburner on KFAN

it’s rumored that the Sixers may actually be picking up some of Booth’s salary. I’m not sure how THAT actually works but if true then I mind it a little less. Being young, Carney probably does have some value in the league, so I think a deal for at least an experienced backup PG might be possible. Or, if they want to package one of those picks with Smith, McCants or Carney and get someone of higher quality, that might be possible. I’d take Lowry in a heartbeat.

by Peter W on Jul 8, 2008 8:38 PM CDT 0 recs

Can I hit on my Chalmers point again? :)

I think they should throw whatever they can at Memphis for Conley. Lowry would be nice, but Conley would be excellent. Give them 2 1st rounders, Carney and Smith.

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by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 8, 2008 8:42 PM CDT up 0 recs

I'd agree with Conley over Lowry,

but I also agree with Peter W, I’d take Lowry in a heartbeat. Maybe now with Mayo and Gay as the obvious (or seemingly obvious) starting backcourt they’d be willing to part ways with Conley, I’m sure he’d rather be a starter, which I think he’d become immediately for the Wolves. Plus Carney may be attractive to Memphis since he went to school there, bring in some of the Tigers fans.

By the way, am I really going to be the first one to make an Austin Powers Carney reference?

by plinytheelder on Jul 8, 2008 8:52 PM CDT up 0 recs

You shouldn't look much past the 1st Round pick...

since that alone makes it a great deal for Minnesota. I don’t know these guys’ salaries, but they probably aren’t big, and getting a future 1st Rounder for a cap exception seems logical to me. This is the first negative reaction to this trade that I’ve seen.

I’ve hardly seen Carney since his Memphis days, but he was a lotto pick 2 years ago, and is more athletic than any of our current players, so he’s worth a shot for no risk and little salary.

Are the Memphis ideas just ideas, or have there been rumors about Lowry or Conley? I’d get much more excited about Conley. I’ve hardly seen either player in the pros, but Lowry at Nova was a scrappy player without much of a jumper and Conley has pretty bigtime potential with his explosiveness and passing ability. Plenty of people compliment Lowry since he’s joined the league, so he must have improved, but, like with Mike Miller, he couldn’t have been too great if he wasn’t the best player on one of the worst teams in the entire league.

by Andy G on Jul 8, 2008 9:08 PM CDT 0 recs

I don't agree...

...about the 1st pick making this worthwhile. Having a low-to-mid 20s pick is just another guaranteed salary that will have to be traded if Miami improves and Boston stays where they’re at. The Wolves could have 3 picks in the 20s. That’s 3 slotted rookie salaries. They obviously can’t keep them all and again: they need to move some of these assets for a point/backup point.

This trade is a good thing if they can make the next move (it could be great if they get the right player). If not, they’ve picked up another slotted rookie salary in the 20s in a draft where they’ll likely already have 2 while doing nothing to address their point guard situation.

Also, the Lowry/Conley stuff is speculation.

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by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 8, 2008 9:12 PM CDT up 0 recs

plenty of time to trade our picks...

I don’t think it would be a bad thing to have every pick between 20-30 in the ‘09 draft. Those seem to have value, and like our 34th in this draft, we can sell or trade whatever we don’t want. I just think it gives more flexibility—-and we’ll need that when we lose our own pick in 09 or 10 to LAC. You’re better-informed than me with the cap rules, but I think Utah’s pick (what Britt reported this would probably be) will be something between 23-27, and some team could use it, if we can’t, and would be willing to give us something of value in return.

by Andy G on Jul 8, 2008 9:22 PM CDT up 0 recs

There just....

...has to be something in return for some of these assets, and it likely has to come before the season in the form of a PG. They can’t go into the season with just Foye.

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by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 8, 2008 9:28 PM CDT up 0 recs

is lowry any better than Telfair? The FO sounded like they want to bring him back. Agreed, though. I don’t even like Foye as a point, let alone the only point. He showed absolutely nothing on the playmaking front last year and it seemed to have a negative effect on Jefferson’s game at times. You’ve gotten my hopes up on Conley. Maybe McHale is on the horn with Mitch Kupchack, asking for advice.

by Andy G on Jul 8, 2008 9:32 PM CDT up 0 recs

Lowry...

....is no better than Bassy. I like what Bassy showed last year and I think he’d have similar improvement this year if he is brought back. Here’s hoping for an out-of-the-blue Conley deal. They’d have to give away a big chunk of next year’s draft as well as Smith and Carney, but who knows? If Memphis is going to trade the best big in the draft for a 6’4” combo guard and a bunch of locker room trash, who knows what they’ll do?

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by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 8, 2008 9:48 PM CDT up 0 recs

Maybe instead of Conley/Lowry

we could get Cotty Lowry, put up images of him all over town, and then deface them?

by plinytheelder on Jul 8, 2008 9:21 PM CDT 0 recs

That may be...

...the most inside Mpls reference we’ve had on the site yet :)

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by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 8, 2008 9:24 PM CDT up 0 recs

WOW

well played!

by wyn on Jul 8, 2008 11:23 PM CDT up 0 recs

Grizzlies will not part with Conley…they wouldn’t give him up in the proposed trade with Heat for Beasley. They previously tried to get Carney from Philly so a Carney/Lowry swap may be doable. T-Wolves should throw-in one of their many 2nd rounders to make this happen if they can. Lowry may not be better than Bassy, but he’ll probably be cheaper and there is no guarantee T-Wolves are going to be able to bring Bassy back.

Grizzlies don’t see redundancy with Conley/Mayo so they’re not going to unload Conley b/c of Mayo trade. Conley will be PG, Mayo will be SG and Gay will be SF.

by TWolvesFanInLA on Jul 8, 2008 9:57 PM CDT 0 recs

Even though Brown says he still wants him

I would also explore whether Felton could be had. Also, if they hold on to all the picks, I really don’t mind it. It gives them flexibility at the trading deadline or next draft day to make a deal. As opposed to all those years where we were devoid of picks, having an abundance of them-especially when rebuilding-seems like decent karma to me. That’s why I have a hard time believing the Iron Ranger is pulling all the strings.

I’m looking for crystals and magnets around 400 1st Avenue when I go back down to watch a game…

by Peter W on Jul 8, 2008 10:07 PM CDT up 0 recs

I think you've hit it...

...it’s decidedly un-McHale-ish. Even though I’ll quibble about the fact they have no backup point, they’re gathering assets like crazy and are positioning themselves well for getting another asset or making a splash in next year’s draft. There are a few teams that have “extra” pgs: New Jersey (Williams), Charlotte (Felton), and Memphis (1/2 their roster).

I’ll also completely agree with you that I’d be happy with Lowry and I’m reallllllly hoping they worked out a sign and trade with Smith and Lowry during the Love/Mayo trade.

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by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 8, 2008 10:20 PM CDT up 0 recs

And here we go...

From Marc Stein, ESPN:
“The Philadelphia 76ers have apparently won the Elton Brand free-agent sweepstakes.

NBA front-office sources told ESPN.com on Tuesday that Brand has informed the Sixers that he will accept a five-year deal worth an estimated $82 million and spurn what was presumed to be a slam-dunk return to the Los Angeles Clippers to hook up with Clipper-to-be Baron Davis.”

The Clips, and Davis, must be bummed. The Sixers, given the rest of the Eastern Conference other than Boston, just got a little better.

by Peter W on Jul 8, 2008 10:13 PM CDT 0 recs

again, this is slightly off topic, but...

I’d like to make the case that the east was better than the west last year. After all 3 east teams gave the Cs a better fight than the team that breezed through the west…and doesn’t this make 3 of the last 5 nba champs from the east?

Anyways, less tongue-in-cheek but just as off-topic: Philly is going to have a really nice team next year, they are going to unseat Toronto as the 2nd-best team in the east, maybe (depending on signings) even challenge the Cs?

by plinytheelder on Jul 8, 2008 10:28 PM CDT up 0 recs

I'd argue that...

Ray Allen going from terrible shooter back to one of the best shooters in the league made the C’s a much-different team in the Finals, and even East Finals, than they were when struggling against Atlanta and Cleveland. I don’t think the disparity is big at the top, but teams 5-8 in the East are a big step behind teams like Phoenix, Dallas & Houston (and unfortunately for Wolves’ fans, Portland will quickly join that group). However, I think Brand takes Philly from a 7-seed pretender to possibly a very competitive 4 or 5 seed in the East that would be equally solid in the West. Couple that with Rose to the Bulls/Beasley to the Heat and I think the depth is on the way in the Eastern playoff picture.

by Andy G on Jul 8, 2008 10:34 PM CDT up 0 recs

sorry,

I meant 2nd-best in the Atlantic Division

by plinytheelder on Jul 8, 2008 10:34 PM CDT up 0 recs

And Maggette signs

with the Warriors, the Clippers are reportedly going after Josh Smith.

Damn. This is getting interesting.

by Peter W on Jul 8, 2008 10:16 PM CDT 0 recs

I wonder...

...if Baron Davis will put a hit out on Elton Brand. The guy walked away from just as large a contract to pair up with Brand. I think Elton just pulled a worse a-hole move than Boozer back in Cleveland.

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by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 8, 2008 10:21 PM CDT up 0 recs

PS...

...from the get-go this year, I’ve always said that Josh Smith is the prize of this year’s free agent class. He has the potential to be a superstar glue guy in the mode of KG. I’m not calling him KG, but he’s the type of player who can fill in the gaps on a team in a superstar-like fashion.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
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by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 8, 2008 10:24 PM CDT up 0 recs

Smith was..

the most impressive player that I watched in-person last year, compared to what I expected to see. He’s probably the league’s best shot-blocker and one of the best running big men. However, ATL won’t let him go. He and Johnson give the Hawks their first sign of life in over a decade, and they would probably step to the front of the “Who wants to become the Sonics?” sweepstakes if they lose him.

by Andy G on Jul 8, 2008 10:29 PM CDT up 0 recs

For any doubters...

...I will corroborate that SnP was calling Smith early. I know, because I completely disagreed with him. It certainly looks like Smith will benefit from Davis and Brand’s signings, but I still don’t think he’s a good long-term building block for a young team. All talent and athleticism, no control or maturity.

by wyn on Jul 8, 2008 11:29 PM CDT up 0 recs

He'd be perfect..

...between 2 guards who can shoot 40% from 3 and 2 possibly defensively challenged frontcourt players. I think the Wolves had a guy like him in mind when they took Brewer.

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by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 9, 2008 6:43 AM CDT up 0 recs

In no way was this a worse a-hole move

Boozer was let out of a very low contract by the team when he’d clearly told them he’d resign (obviously that isn’t on the up and up). In contrast Brand had every right to ditch his contract. The only reason he is a jerk is because he’d told people he was doing it to improve the team. If he reached out to Baron to convince that they should both do what they did I’d be inclined to think Brand is a jerk. But if Brand opted out so that he could play on a winning team (be it the clippers or someone else) I wouldn’t think poorly of that.

by Pants_ on Jul 10, 2008 7:45 AM CDT up 0 recs

well...

I’m sure people in the Bay Area aren’t crazy about Davis either…

by plinytheelder on Jul 8, 2008 10:23 PM CDT 0 recs

That too...

...but at least he didn’t walk back on what had to have been a hand-shake agreement.

BTW: I’m in Little Rock, AR right now and I think I just saw Sasha Baron Cohen in downtown Little Rock. Completely unrelated, but I could swear I just saw him.

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by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 8, 2008 10:25 PM CDT up 0 recs

walk up to him...

and ask him if he’s a racialist! ps I wasn’t aware of the handshake agreement, that is indeed cold. Not to mention that the Clippers, with him, Davis and Kaman, looked pretty damn strong. Guess he’s had enough of being a Clipper, being a team guy (if memory serves, didn’t he sign with them a few years ago when everyone was telling him to move to greener pastures?).

Brand and Boozer…what is it with these Duke guys?

by plinytheelder on Jul 8, 2008 10:32 PM CDT up 0 recs

Brand

Seems there was some kind of agreement, this from the LA Times:

Last week, Brand reportedly had neared a verbal agreement with the Clippers for five years and $70 million.
Brand and David Falk, his agent, had said earlier that the player’s decision to opt out of the final year of his Clippers contract would be made with the notion of freeing up cap space for the Clippers to land a proven point guard. Brand and Falk have not been reached for comment since then.

by plinytheelder on Jul 9, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up 0 recs

Cohen

Well, I’m sure there are plenty of six-foot-three British Jews walking around Arkansas. But The Smoking Gun says SBC is wreaking havoc in the state right now . . .

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0708081bruno1.html

by BOOM!I'mChrishHanshen on Jul 8, 2008 11:20 PM CDT 0 recs

Well...

...here’s hoping he does something in Little Rock.

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by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 9, 2008 6:40 AM CDT up 0 recs

One day

I go shopping for ONE day, ONE day and you guys start posting 33 posts behind my back.. I knew I shouldv’ stayed home :p.

My Take:

Smith or Carney for Lowry < I’d do it in a heartbeat. I’d even like resigning Telfair for a small contract and move Foye over to the SG more .. though there’s not that much room there, even with Carney gone. cough trade Mccants cough.

If Memphis wants to give up Conley for Smith/Carney and any amount of picks next year < I’d do it in a half heartbeat.

and this one made me laugh out loud:

“Memphis (1/2 their roster).”

by Wim (Belgium) on Jul 9, 2008 12:41 PM CDT 0 recs