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Revisiting the Final 08 Draft Board

As part of our ongoing effort for quality control here at Hoopus I thought it would be an interesting idea to revisit last year's final draft board to see where we went wrong (and right) with our college player rankings.  After all, the way this season is going (even of late), one of the most interesting parts of the year will still be wondering who the Wolves will select in the 09 draft.  Let's take a look at our top 10 players to watch from 07/08:

  1. Michael Beasley
  2. Kevin Love
  3. Derrick Rose
  4. Brook Lopez
  5. Joe Alexander
  6. Marreese Speights
  7. Mario Chalmers
  8. O.J. Mayo
  9. D.J. White
  10. Chris Douglas-Roberts

All in all, I think we batted about .777 (D.J. White is out for the year following jaw surgery) with our top picks being able to play well in the NBA.  CDR is getting very little burn (with poor numbers) in Jersey and Joe Alexander is doing much the same in Milwaukee.  The rest of the players are all shaping up to be solid NBA contributors.  I will add this to the ongoing Mayo/Love trade debate: the real issue is not Mayo v. Love but Foye v. Mayo and Love v. Lopez.  At one point during last off-season, the Wolves were staring at a Mark Madsen, Al Jefferson, Antoine Walker front line.  Brook Lopez is to Kevin Love what Brandon Roy (and O.J. Mayo) is to Randy Foye. 

That being said, let's move on to our buyer beware picks:

  1. Jerryd Bayless
  2. Eric Gordon
  3. Anthony Randolph
  4. Russell Westbrook
  5. Donte Greene
  6. Deandre Jordan
  7. D.J. Augustin
  8. Kosta Koufos
  9. Robin Lopez
  10. Bill Walker

Bayless is doing very little in Portland and is 3rd on the Blazers PG depth chart. Gordon is having a ho-hum year on a terrible Clippers squad.  Randolph is in Nelly's doghouse and apparently can't shoot from beyond 8 feet.  Greene is buried on the Kings' bench.  Jordan is a waste of nearly 7 feet of space.  Robin Lopez is averaging about 10 mpg coming off the bench in Phoenix, and Bill Walker is in the D-League.  I think the only clear screw-ups on my part here is Westbrook.  I don't follow the Thunder enough to tell you why, but he is performing like a #4 pick.  The jury is still out on Augustin and Koufos.  Koufos has the talent to be a versitile big and Augustin is playing point on a crappy team.  They are both playing like rookies with solid upside.  I suppose you could add Gordon to this list as well. 

I'd like to point out a few things from the original article:

Outside of Rose, who went nuts during the tourney and the last few games of the regular season, guards like Bayless and Gordon are especially underwhelming.  I'm going to predict that Bayless will be viewed as one of the biggest busts in recent top draft memory and will be a bench player within 2 years.  Mayo is a bit better than Bayless/Gordon/Westbrook but he, like Rose, benefits a bit from coming on late.  Unlike Rose, who showed he could operate at a potentially elite level, Mayo's ceiling is more of a subdivision than a high rise.  When all is said and done about his game, I highly suspect that he will be viewed as the jump-shooting, turnover prone, low ppr, low fta, solid defending guard that he is.  Instead of my original projection of him having a Billups/Payton-like ceiling, I think his absolute high end is in the area of Steve Francis and Joe Jackson.  We're talking about a guy who shoots a lot of jumpers and will get paid an amount that doesn't necessarily match up with the value he brings to the bottom line of wins and losses.  18/4/4 is the sort of top-end production you can expect out of Mayo...or Randy Foye.

I still view Mayo as a limited player more or less in the mold of Randy Foye.  He could be better but he's hardly the A-one-plus scoring option that many fans think they are missing with the juice down in Memphis.  (Note: While some readers think my recent column comparing Mayo to Ben Gordon was a politically motivated defense of the Love/Mayo trade, it was actually brought about after re-reading the above paragraph about Mayo's ceiling.)  Bayless has also proved to be underwhelming.  It's obviously early in his career but he hasn't done anything yet. 

Moving on, here's my take on Chalmers and the 2nd round picks:

That being said, if the Wolves want a lead guard, Mario Chalmers is there for the taking and he may even be worth more in the mid-teens than any other player in the draft.  Hoopus commenter Jianfu has been on the Chalmers bandwagon for a long time and I have to credit him (or her?) for turning me on to the Jayhawk guard.  Chalmers is legit and if I'm going to believe my ranking system, I have no idea how he's not in the conversation for top guards in this draft; especially when compared to Gordon, Bayless, or Westbrook.  If you're a lottery team not named the Bulls and you are looking for a point, you don't need to move up to get the best one available after Rose. 

If the Wolves are unable to move their 2nd round picks, they should have some solid big man options at the top of the 2nd round.  Ryan Anderson may be sitting there for the taking, as could DJ White, and Joey Dorsey.  While I'm kind of disappointed that David Padgett didn't grade out as highly as I thought he would, even he would be a more realistic option than bust-bombs like Javele McGee or Deandre Jordan, especially at that point in the draft.

Here's my take on how the Wolves should have used their top pick:

Short of Beasley, they need to end up with Love, Lopez, Speights, or Alexander by making a trade down no further than 8th.  Ideally, they would find a way to move both their 2nd round picks for a mid 1st as well as Shaddy/Foye + a contract and the Celtic pick for another mid 1st.  I have been saying it for a while: this is a great draft to have 3 picks and they should take advantage of players like Chalmers, CDR, and (if they have him graded correctly) Ajinca being available in the teens.

And a note on the ranking system:

As for the actual ranking of the players: I am in no way, shape, or form suggesting that a player like DJ White be selected with the 9th overall pick.  What I am suggesting is that his college stats suggest that he has a pretty damn good chance to turn into a top-10 rookie in his 1st year and that he would provide a wonderful value for whoever took him in the late 1st/early 2nd as his talent and numbers clearly outpaced his placement in numerous mock drafts.  The opposite can be said about a player like OJ Mayo, whose perceived value greatly exceeds his actual performance and the way in which he could provide value to a team, say, with the 3rd pick, is to find a willing trading partner who wholeheartedly believes the hype and is willing to trade down (+ additional assets) to get their hands on the 6'4" combo guard from USC.

Getting around to the point of this post, my draft board had some hits and misses.  The Wolves were obviously in the market for a front court player and they had to choose between Love, Lopez, Alexander, and Speights.  There is also the question of value for the pick.  I think the Wolves got good value with their #3 pick.  I appear to be completely wrong about Alexander, but Lopez and Speights could have provided excellent value had the Wolves been able to make a trade down to acquire these players.  I stick by my call on the 4 players Minnesota needed to walk away with.

I've made a few changes to my ranking system this year and I'll start running the numbers near the end of the college season.  As of now, here's how our 2009 draft board stands:

  1. James Harden
  2. Stephen Curry
  3. Danny Green
  4. Tyreke Evans
  5. Nick Calathes
  6. Dark horses: Earl Clark and Tyler Hansborough.

    The next 5: Blake Griffin, Chase Budinger, Hasheem Thabeet, Patrick Mills, and Cole Aldrich.

Actually, that's not completely true.  I need to make a few updates to the board.  I've left  Ricky Rubio and Brandon Jennings out of the mix because I don't know how to evaluate Euro talent.  Here's my updated list:

  1. James Harden
  2. Blake Griffin
  3. Earl Clark
  4. Evan Turner
  5. Hasheem Thabeet

Dark horses: Tyler Hansborough and Tyler Smith

The next 5: Danny Green, Nick Calathes, Cole Aldrich, Stephen Curry, Ty Lawson

Internationals to watch: Rubio, Jennings, Victor Claver.

I've finally given in on the Thabeet angle.  This draft is so thin that he may be the only option depending on where the Wolves end up drafting.  Here's hoping Jennings and Rubio enter and are good.  You may also notice that I've completely removed Stephen Curry from my top 5.  This year's draft board is going to rely a bit more on a personal take than last year's edition.  Last year I just looked at stats and ignored some of the things that my eyes were telling me.  So, this year I will weigh personal opinion a bit more into the mix, and after watching what Purdue did to Curry I have removed him from the top of the list.

Anywho, I just wanted to go over last year's picks so that our readers can see where we went wrong and right before we start getting hot and heavy into this year's draft.  I think we have a pretty decent track record so far.   What do you think we got right?  What did we mess up on?  What can we do better?

Until later.

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Considering...

how well you did in draft predictions, I don’t think you should give your personal prejudices more weight.

by McCleak on Jan 9, 2009 8:12 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I've been debating that...

…but Curry scares me. I really like the guy but I saw that entire Purdue game and he was abused by the type of d he’ll see at the next level.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 9, 2009 8:27 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

not even a month ago

you were raving all things curry and wanted us to take him with our top pick when we currently had like the 3rd worst record in the league

by roundhouse on Jan 10, 2009 3:42 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Also, as someone stated further down

and draft board that has beasley and love over rose is an epic failure

by roundhouse on Jan 10, 2009 3:49 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks!

This is just a general thanks to the Hoopus community for all the great Wolves and basketball talk, it is truly a pleasure to stop by here each day.

by sgdtv on Jan 9, 2009 8:14 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the compliment...

…the comments make the site so we appreciate the input.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 9, 2009 8:26 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Eric Gordon

Eric Gordon has had a great couple of months having 2 30 point games and a couple 20 point ones shooting at a high percentage. He is really playing very well, and is a lone bright spot in the early clipper season. Once he got consistent minutes he began performing at Rose/Mayo/Westbrooks level. Rookie of the month is his to lose. Bayless’ minutes are starting to get more consistent with Roy out and he has done some good stuff on the floor. Augustine is playing great out there outplaying opposing guards on many occasions, and his ability to play with Felton (another PG) is maximising his time. I think its fair to say 18/4/4 isn’t top end production from Mayo.

I have been reading this site for at least the last year. I remember seeing articles complaining about McHales interest in Love, and articles pro-mayo. As time went on and Love looked more certain you obviously changed your mind and your articles reflect this. Last years draft was deep with talented 6’-6’4" guards and those are at the top of the Wolves shopping list at this years draft. Blake is a great talent but this team cant function with 3 PFs

by WhaHuh on Jan 9, 2009 8:59 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

It's definitely true...

…that I started out viewing Love as a quasi Dukie known for nothing more than his outlet passing. That was before I saw him play and before he built up enough of a stat sheet to say otherwise. However, as his season played out and he put up the numbers he did, I think my take on him had far less to do with it being more certain that the Wolves would take him (this wasn’t certain until midnight on draft night) and more to do with him being a freshman winner of the Pac 10 POY.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 9, 2009 9:13 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

For the sake of openness...

…here’s the original post I had on Love:

http://hoopus.withawhy.org/blogs/stopnpop/2007/12/19/cold-sweat-picks

It was about picks I didn’t want to see. Written on Dec 19th, 07:

Kevin Love, "C", UCLA- Mr. Love is a highly regarded freshman with a purported knack for pristine outlet passes. He’s also a questionable 6’9" with modest athleticism and little to no promise of guarding legitimate Association 5’s on a greater level than Big Al. On the plus side, Love is a hoops junkie (he watches tapes of Wes Unseld) who is supposedly a coaches’ dream (he proactively sought out the advice of John Wooden) with a high b-ball IQ. Can you think of a player that could possibly appeal more to Kevin McHale than Mr. Love? That fact alone should scare the bejeezus out of you…to say nothing of a 6’9" pseudo-Dukie who is best known for his outlet passing. Just what the Wolves need, right? Fear the Love.

I think the McHale attraction part still holds but I didn’t know he’d be that good of a performer. His stats were fantastic and he’s shown he has the skills to be an elite rebounder in the NBA. Who here among us is not a bit scared when McHale takes to a player? Hell, it’s a running joke that made its way into a Chad Ford draft chat wrap last week.

Also, Gordon is still sporting a sub 14 PER while playing for one of the crappiest teams in the league. He is definitely headed in the right direction but he’s not in the same conversation yet as Rose, Mayo, or Westbrook. He does next to nothing besides score. Bayless has now played more minutes in January than he did in all of December and it took 3 games and a Brandon Roy injury for that to happen. 12 minutes and 3 points a game is a bit more consistent but nothing too awesome. I do think that by the end of the year I will have screwed up on Augustin and most likely Gordon.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 9, 2009 9:26 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Gordon

can put the ball in the basket, and last time I checked, that is how basketball games are won. He also plays pretty good defense from what I’ve seen and read. He fell further than he should have in that draft—one of the alternatives to keeping Mayo that I would have supported was a swap with LAC for Gordon and our future 1st Rounder. I bet they would’ve done it for their USC guy, and we would’ve gotten somebody that is arguably in Mayo’s class (although maybe not quite there) and our draft pick.

Bayless is one of the few lottery picks that definitely falls in the “it’s too early to judge him” category. He’s on a title contender that can’t have a 20-year old messing things up. Kevin Love, and probably other lottery picks, would see just as little action on that team as Bayless has. He looked very solid in Roy’s absence against the Pistons. I’m not a “Bayless-guy” but I can clearly see his situation for what it is, and until he gets older or on a team that isn’t as deep as Portland is, he won’t have a chance to show off his game.

by Andy G on Jan 9, 2009 9:42 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

As of today...

I always say draft BPA. And this year should be no different. Until we have an all-star at a particular position then no position should be passed up if all-star talent is on the board at the time. That being said I think Thabeet and Harden will be gone by our picks. Also I believe you are wrong that this draft is not deep. There are some really good players emerging this year that look to have excellent NBA potential. Jordan Hill, Greg Monroe, DuJuan Summers, Jonny Flynn, and others. Whether or not they’ll come out this year is another thing. All that being said, I believe the front office thinks that Foye is the answer at the 2 and that Brewer may not be a the SF. I believe they will target a PG and a SF with 2 first round picks and trade any other 1st round picks to make other deals. On PG and SF:
Guys I say yes to at PG
Rubio, Jennings, Curry, Lawson. Lawson COULD be the perfect point guard for this team. He can do everything Telfair does, but even better, and play better defense, and he does look to shoot better than Bassy as well.
I haven’t seen enough of these guys to make any educated comments on:
Holiday, Mills, Maynor.
Guys I say yes to at SF
DuJuan Summers, Earl Clark
Need to see more of Al-Faroug, Damion James, DeRozan, and others.

by wolfen on Jan 9, 2009 9:09 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Love the Draft analysis

Please keep it coming.

If I remember right, as the Wolves got closer to draft day your analysis in the ‘08 draft gave increasingly high marks for Mayo and even suggested he was not that far removed from Rose. That said, you also were not too fond of Love and predicted McHale would pick him but as the Draft approached you became increasingly more impressed with Love’s game as well. Not that it reflects anything on how the draft actually turned out, but I just thought I’d throw out my impressions of your very informative analysis last year.

About Curry, I can understand the hesitation about him and why he might scare some people. I’m not sure you take him over others in the draft or that he should be a top 5 or even a top 10 pick. But don’t you have a hard time predicting that he will be a draft bust too. I mean he just seems to have an ability to score and I think he can adjust to what defenses throw at him. Obviously, he has been scouted much more thoroughly this year than last year and he is seeing new things, but lets see where he is come tournament time. My prediction is that he will adjust and teams will find it harder to take him out of the game as the season goes on. He will probably suffer a similar and more pronounced learning curve in the NBA next year too. I think he needs to get a little stronger. But, I’m pretty sure he figures it all out and will become a 18-20 ppg player in the NBA eventually. Please keep providing analysis of his progression and also how well you think he is improving as a potential PG in the NBA. That seems to be the biggest question mark, right?

by Andy B on Jan 9, 2009 9:12 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Curry

He did score 29 at Duke. That was no small task. Could he become a Tony Parker type in the NBA? Maybe. Parker isn’t exactly a physical specimen and he is a flat out stud as we have seen all too well.

by wolfen on Jan 9, 2009 9:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think he's quick enough

offensively, but defensively he’ll probably be just average. Below is from nbadraft.net. The part I like best is ability to create his own shot in crunch time. We need a dagger kind of guy. Curry has a chance to be that guy.

Strengths: Made transition from SG to PG this year, but he is more of a combo guard that makes good decisions than a true PG … Best scorer in the NCAA so far at 31.9 PPG … Puts a lot of pressure on defense with his scoring ability and quickness … Looks fearless on the floor and plays under control … Can get any shot he wants and has great shot efficiency … Teams are completely focusing on him defensively, rotating different players at him, so he’s under pressure at all times and still finds a way to hit difficult shots every game … Very confident shooter, especially when the game is on the line (vs. WV struggled the whole game and was not afraid to take over at the end) … Curry can put the ball on the floor and create his own shot from anywhere on the floor and he doesn’t need much space to get his shot off (he will cross-over, trough the legs dribble, behind the back…) … Gets defenders off balance using pump fakes and uses defenders overeagerness to his advantage … Very difficult to guard because he possesses a quick and consistent release on his shot (on the move or under pressure as well) and has NBA range … Moves well without the ball. Great footwork when coming off screens, always ready to shoot … Curry is good at changing speed and direction and handles the ball well … In the open court he can stop on a dime at full speed, with his feet in perfect position (under control) and separate from his defender for open jump-shot … Great vision while driving to the basket and control with the ball … Defensively Curry is crafty and a smart defender with good hands 2.9 STL (not a lockout defender); moves his feet well on defense and stays in front of his defender without gambling much … Solid lateral quickness. Possesses a great will to win. Excellent free-throw shooter .874 … Doesn’t show too much emotion, even keeled. Has been around the game his entire life which gives him an edge knowing what it takes …

Weaknesses: Far below NBA standard in regard to explosivenes and athleticism … At 6-2, he’s extremely small for the NBA shooting guard position, and it will likely keep him from being much of a defender at the next level … Although he’s playing point guard this year, he’s not a natural point guard that an NBA team can rely on to run a team … Struggles defensively getting around screens … Can overshoot and rush into shots from time to time (vs. WV) … Hasn’t had to deal with getting benched due to poor performance (shooting) which has allowed him to shoot through any slumps. Will have to adjust to not being a volume shooter which could have an effect on his effectiveness … Doesn’t like when defenses are too physical with him … Not a great finisher around the basket due to his size and physical attributes … Makes some silly mistakes at the PG position. Needs to add some muscles to his upper body, but appears as though he’ll always be skinny …

by wolfen on Jan 9, 2009 9:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

thanks

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 9, 2009 10:47 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

...and I do think that Curry's position will depend on someone biting on his PG skills.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 9, 2009 10:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i think we need to remember

that stephen curry is the ONLY good player on Davidson. It’s not like he’s playing with even average college basketball players. Put him on a team with 4 other capable basketball players, and I think he will score A LOT. Also, I don’t think his size is really an issue if he stays at PG.

by RoyalFlush on Jan 10, 2009 5:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

After looking at your board...

I don’t know if you can call any system that rated Derrick Rose behind Beasley and Love a “success”, so it may be better that you use your own opinion too. Can you imagine what we’d be saying if McHale had passed on Derrick Rose?

My question for you guys is if you re-made your “big board”, how would it look? I’ve always been a fan of the tier approach and this is how I see it right now (people in the tiers are in no specific order)…

Tier 1… (future superstars)
Derrick Rose

Tier 2 (All Star to valuable 2nd Banana potential)…
O.J. Mayo
Russell Westbrook
Michael Beasley
Kevin Love
Eric Gordon
Marreese Speights
Brook Lopez

Tier 3 (Mid-Level Exception type players)…
D.J. Augustin
George Hill
JaVale McGee
Mario Chalmers
Roy Hibbert
Darell Arthur
Nicholas Batum
Jason Thompson
Courtney Lee
JJ Hickson
Luc Mbah a Moute
Kosta Koufos

Incolmplete…
Jerryd Bayless
Danillo Gallinari
Joe Alexander
Brandon Rush

by Blakeley on Jan 9, 2009 9:51 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

From a statistical standpoint...

…I don’t see how you can build a model where failure is based on a single subject being placed out of order. Drafting is about compiling as high of a batting average as possible and there will be some swings and misses. I think I screwed up on my evaluation of short guards. Augustin, Westbrook, and Gordon were not placed correctly. I come at this more from a standpoint of placing bets. I try to view this as much like someone placing bets as possible. I’m not going so much for guessing who will have the biggest payoff so much as who will provide the most value. It’s not working well with short guards. That’s the biggest correction I need to make.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 9, 2009 10:10 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Right...

I’m just saying that if you used your own judgment along with your statistical system, then there is no way that you take Beasley and Love over Derrick Rose.

by Blakeley on Jan 9, 2009 10:52 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That is a very good point.

S-n-P is doing analysis and he’s doing very good analysis along with other’s out there. Unfortunately, GMs and franchises don’t get to look it in batting average terms. If a GM passes on Rose (Jordan) for Beasley or Love, (Bowie), fans and media outlets are not going to be convinced by the batting average argument and listen to what the GM had on its draft board on draft day and how overall their board looked pretty good judging by the success of the top players. All that matter is the one pick and if you miss on that pick you are going to be judged harshly.

by Andy B on Jan 9, 2009 11:01 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I also view this in terms of being a Wolves fan...

…who wishes the team’s Basketball VP would have batted .500 over the last 5 years. I suppose if I were in the room making the pick and I also had access to the behind-the-scenes stuff…well, you’re probably right, Rose would have been hard to pass up. I think if you bat about .750 in the draft you’ll have an excellent team. With the number of picks the Wolves have, I think this is the approach they have to take.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 9, 2009 11:10 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Also...

…looking back at the draft I think if I knew then what I know now, I’d try to trade with New Jersey for Lopez. I wonder how much value they could have gotten out of a deal with the Nets. They had multiple picks too. I think that’s the one place where they could have really maximized the #3 pick’s potential with Rose and Beasley off the board.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 9, 2009 11:12 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Not saying that Lopez is heads and tails better than love, but he is in the same category, and he plays center. We could have filled that need, and got even more assets to work with. Hindsight is 20/20.

by wolfen on Jan 9, 2009 11:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think they could have received both picks...

..+ a player.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 9, 2009 11:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

we could hav

had lopez, AND nic batum or darrel arthur. plus a player. wow… heck i’d almost rather have arthur straight up himself instead of love. at least arthur can finish at the rim and can hit his outside shots. not the rebounder love is of course….

by wolfen on Jan 9, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i take back

what i said about arthur. brain cramp….

by wolfen on Jan 9, 2009 11:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Even...

…Ryan Anderson would have been solid at that pick…the guy who they ended up with.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 9, 2009 11:49 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I hadn't noticed

the run that Speights is on until I saw you list him in the Tier 2. Interesting. I watched Bayless in his minutes of play against Detriot and I fairly impressed. I think he scored his 8 points consecutively for the team. Bayless was incredibly fired up. I remember reading before the draft that he tends to have a chip on his shoulder and I could really see that coming out. I didn’t see him take a jump shot but overall I was fairly impressed.

by Pants_ on Jan 9, 2009 2:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I like Bayless too...

… and I think he actually has a significantly higher upside to Foye’s (which Foye might be at playing right now). I won’t be a bit surprised if Bayless gets a chance somewhere (Portland or for another team) and averages 20 ppg for a season. He has great instincts, and he was hands down the best player in the summer league, surpassing Love, who was good but not nearly as impressive as Bayless. He can really generate contact in the lane, so he is always getting to the line. He’ll end up as a good one.

by Shogun on Jan 9, 2009 3:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Has Bayless been playing

PG mostly? I say we threaten Portland with this – we offer a 2nd round pick for Bayless and if they don’t take it, then we sign Darius Miles. BRILLIANT!!!

by wolfen on Jan 9, 2009 3:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

lol

As long as we don’t put it in writing.

I’m not totally sold on Bayless, I know he was good in summer league but that’s essentially pickup ball, which to my mind is so different from actual games that it should almost be considered another sport. I wish I’d seen that Detroit game.

by plinytheelder on Jan 9, 2009 8:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Westbrook at OKC

Westbrook has only recently become the starting PG but he also plays SG when Watson comes off the bench. This means that he is playing alot more minutes than he did initially under Carlissimo as a backup PG. I think its great for his development that he plays alot with Durant and Green, hopefully making a good core for the future

by WhaHuh on Jan 9, 2009 10:36 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Good call on Evan Turner. I like him, too.

Here’s my prelimanary board:

BPA’s: Griffen, Aminu, Harden (2 PFs, unfortunately for the Wolves; Rubio’s here if he declares)

Potential steals: Evan Turner, Tyler Smith, Willie Warren

Meh: Earl Clark, Lawson, Curry

Potential lotto picks who scare the bejeezus out of me: Thabeet, Monroe, DeRozan, Jennings (seems like Telfair v2.0 by my eyes)

I reserve the right to change my mind as things play out, of course. :)

by jianfu on Jan 9, 2009 4:41 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Solid...

….Warren has been interesting. Tyler Smith is another interesting player and he seems like the kind of solid pick the Wolves could make with either the Utah or Boston pick should they keep them (and if he lasts that long). I haven’t seen Aminu yet. I have another dark horse I’ll have to add: Jarvis Varnado. I was in Little Rock for the tourney last year and Mississippi State stayed at our hotel. I had the opportunity to listen to an asst coaches breakout session about their defense and it was very interesting to hear some of the things they had to say about this kid. He’s an amazing shot blocker and is one of those guys that could have potential to give 15 mpg off the bench as a defensive sub. He’s averaging 5.5 blocks per game this year.

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by Stop-n-Pop on Jan 9, 2009 7:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What’s incredible about Varnado is, for such a prolific shot blocker, he doesn’t really foul that much. Pretty impressive. I’m skeptical about his strength (or rather lack thereof), but he’d an intriguing scratch ticket later on.

I actually started following Aminu as a potential SF; he’s definately not a perimeter player. But I think he’s a very interesting prospect as a matchup/hybrid 4 (the patron saint of this type of player being vintage Marion, which we might never see again, but there’s nothing wrong with the Thad Youngs and Josh Smiths of the world, and Aminu might be a more potent scorer than those two).

Wake’s real good this year, so I hope to catch some more games of him.

by jianfu on Jan 9, 2009 9:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Evan Turner

is a poor man’s Brandon Roye. He even says he patterns his game after him. I like him a lot. I’ve seen him play a lot. He probably won’t come out this year but if he did, I would not be upset at all if we took him in the middle of round 1.

by wolfen on Jan 9, 2009 9:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If the Wolves are lucky enough to be in the position to draft Griffin...

They shouldn’t hesitate to select him and trade Al Jefferson. By nearly all accounts Jefferson is a poor to very poor defender and it appears that he lacks great leadership skills. To contend for an NBA championship a team’s best player and leader can’t be its worst defender and lack leadership skills. Griffin is a franchise cornerstone prospect who plays with great intensity and possesses of the charts athleticism; the wolves would be remiss if they passed him up. Jefferson is an asset that would command a king’s ransom on the trade market.

The aim should be to build a team that can contend for a title; not a team mired in continual mediocrity that, at best, contends for a spot in the second round of the playoffs.

by Brokenteeth on Jan 9, 2009 8:17 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

griffin

the board above is the first one that i have seen that didn’t claim that griffin was the number one pick. he seems to have a head and shoulders edge over the rest of the draft pool. in order to get him, the wolves would need the #1. the confusing logjam at the pf slot on the team should not dissuade them from grabbing the player who, by nearly all accounts, is the best one in the draft. trade jefferson or love or both to build around him. there’s a lot that can be gained with griffin that can’t with the current front court and a lot that can be gained in a trade if the current front court is moved. it seems like an easy win for the wolves if they get the chance.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Jan 9, 2009 9:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hard to disagree with this...

…although I suspect if things remain status quo in the team’s management, the idea of trading Jefferson would be considered sacreligeous. I think they think they’ve got a bonafide face of the franchise.

I am curious about Jefferson’s trade value. He’s young, productive, and signed to a fairly friendly contract. But it is a contract that has a lot of years on it. With the current CAP SPACE!!! craze, I wonder if you might find yourself limited to players under similarly long deals (although you can still come up with some interesting ideas even limited this way). I also wonder if he’s not considered a bit of an anachronism in today’s game; most teams prefer the perimeter attack now. But that might be overblown.

by jianfu on Jan 9, 2009 9:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that you take Griffin...

but you trade Love—not Jefferson.

by Andy G on Jan 9, 2009 9:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

buyer beware

with Griffins knees.
Harden has some talent, which is saying somethign considering ASU is hell on earth.
If rubio is there. TAKE HIM.

Blazer fans tell me, where were you,
When our Brandon Roy dropped 52?

by GreatOden'sRaven on Jan 10, 2009 1:46 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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