Preseason Top 25 Under 25
Kevin Love cracks the Top 20, but no Jonny Flynn.
4 months ago
oldenpolynice
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How the hell do they have
Blake Griffin at #13 and Tyreke Evans at 20-somthing? Griffin before Love? That is quite a bold statement considering Love was very effective for a rookie last year. Plus I would argue that Love had the better college career. Griffin was slightly overhyped all year.
About Evans, the guy did say he was pushing the bandwagon…but damn.
by TheEvilProfessor on Oct 15, 2009 11:59 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
ha, good to see a couple GSoMers holding it down in support of monta in the comments. when the question “what makes him a better candidate for the top 25 than tyreke evans or ronnie brewer?” was honestly posed, my stomach turned a bit. i’ve got an easy answer there: his spectacular offensive game. i don’t think he’s a guy you build a title team around, but he’s better than some of the riff raff rounding out the top 25. ty thomas? child, please.
i don’t really have a problem with griffin at 13. he was the consensus #1 pick and seems to combine the things my two favorite fanbases adore about our young PFs (high ceiling, though not as high as randolph’s and he’s safe bet to be very effective, though not as safe as love).
wait on flynn. if he’s the real deal when the season starts, he’ll get the publicity. i’ll wait next to you for curry’s appearance on lists like this.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Oct 16, 2009 7:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It's an entertaining list, but...
I often disagree with this guy’s rankings. However bad Monta at 26 is, I think Josh Smith at 8 is worse. I’d say (based on how valuable I consider them, not necessarily how good they are right now, so upside counts):
1. LeBron James (1)
2. Chris Paul (3)
3. Dwight Howard (2)
4. Kevin Durant (4)
5. Derrick Rose (7)
6. Al Jefferson (6)
7. Blake Griffin (13)
8. Rajon Rondo (5)
9. Greg Oden (20)
10. Brook Lopez (10)
11. Andrew Bynum (11)
12. Anthony Randolph (17)
13. Andris Biedrins (14)
14. Michael Beasley (unranked)
15. Kevin Love (16)
16. LaMarcus Aldridge (9)
17. Eric Gordon (15)
18. Paul Millsap (18)
19. O.J. Mayo (19)
20. Rudy Gay (21)
21. James Harden (unranked)
22. Rudy Fernandez (unranked)
23. Monta Ellis (unranked) (sorry, cap’n hack)
24. Al Horford (23)
25. Josh Smith (8)
by John Doe on Oct 16, 2009 11:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You're big on upside
…I’m cool with that. But if upside counts so much, why is Al Jefferson ranked 6th? From a career perspective he has less potential than Lopez, Bynum and (possibly) Oden. All of whom CAN be great two-way players whereas Al Jeff is purely an offensive player.
Again, this argument is based on the fact that you emphasize upside so much on your list.
by oldenpolynice on Oct 17, 2009 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Short Answer: homerism
Long Answer: Yes I acknowledge the value of upside, but Al’s production is just too much to ignore. I fully expect a fair number of them to be better than Al eventually, but looking at each guy below Al individually, no one has much better than a 50/50 shot. In that event, the advantage goes to the guy who’s already proven.
So it’s some combination of those two answers.
by John Doe on Oct 18, 2009 1:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no need to apologize to me. i can at least see the logic in your list (and really like james harden). monta’s coming off an injury and has a lot to prove this year. you put guys ahead of him who could be very good NBA players. as olden points out, you’re big on upside. i’d keep your list about as is, but making a couple changes:
since i argued for it earlier, i better explain where i’d stick monta. i’d put him behind millsap, but both he and millsap ahead of eric gordon, who’s upside seems to be “great scoring, undersized two”. monta’s already got that, and has shown (albeit in limited games) some aptitude for the point last year.
i’d also drop LMA for all of the exceptionally well documented reasons i gave on the oden thread. probably between oj mayo and rudy gay (whose positions i would switch).
al jefferson’s not a top 10 guy to me. he’s a legit 20-10 guy, but he doesn’t score efficiently or guard anyone. he’s somewhere in andris biedrins territory. probably just ahead of him, but i could go either way on that one. that could be homerism, but andris is a beast on the boards and scores efficiently, if not frequently enough.
speaking of beasts on the boards who score efficiently, kevin love should be moved up a couple spots. just ahead of al/andris, but just behind randolph. i can’t put him ahead of randolph, so much upside, so much growth since his entry into the league, so much warrior fanhood. i do love kevin, and i think if i were a wolves fan, there’s a good shot i’d be on the other end of this argument. safe to say, both teams should be happy with their PF position for quite some time.
oden’s knees and foul rate scare me. can we move him out of the top 15? just for safety’s sake. i’m pulling for you greg; you’re a nice guy. stay healthy and stop fouling everyone. for me.
i’d switch durant and rondo. moral of the story: i love rajon rondo and kevin durant hates defense.
this was fun.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Oct 17, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Responses in a FanShot???
I thought I was the only one who knew about these!
Running down my list (and I’d love to see other peoples’ too), here’s my logic:
Monta: I’m biased against undersized guards who aren’t necessarily points (given the Wolves’ recent history, can you blame me?). There’s just no historical precedent for Arenas/Iverson types helping you win. On the other hand, I’m biased in favor of guards who can shoot, hence Gordon and Mayo maybe being higher than they should.
LMA: I fall entirely on the Love side of the LMA vs Love debate, however, I think he could be a better player playing in a system that didn’t encourage him to continue taking so many inefficient jumpers. Also, I’ve seen some reports that he’s going to be a monster next season, so I factored them in.
Jefferson: See my explanation above. Biedrins is a heck of a rebounder, but so is Al. I’m not sure Jefferson would do any worse in GS, rebounding-wise.
Oden: he’s got to be above Lopez and Bynum for me. Just too much upside, and it’s not like he was markedly less productive than Lopez last season. Bynum’s injury history is far more troubling, in my opinion.
Rondo: I think both he and Rose are extremely overrated right now. Rose could eventually be very good, but he isn’t yet. Rondo is good now, but I don’t see him getting anything but worse. He’s got absolutely ideal shooting surrounding him, masking his complete ineptitude there. Plus, he’s got free range to drive, since you can’t double off of any of his teammates, and he picks up maximum assists because anybody he passes the ball to is going to know what to do with it.
by John Doe on Oct 18, 2009 2:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i see where you’re coming from with all that. for the most part, we seem to have pretty similar thoughts on these guys (aside from rondo, who has become an excellent passer, an improving shooter, and an amazing rebounder for a point guard. i don’t see him falling off the face of the earth).
quick point on andris v. al in terms of rebounding. andris posted a 2.7% better rebounding rate than pre-injury jefferson (20.2 v. 17.5). that factors in pace. al can rebound, no argument there, but what andris does on the boards is spectacular. it isn’t just the blistering pace in oakland that makes him look that good; it’s his incredible skill on the glass. most guys just don’t stack up.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Oct 18, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I alluded to that, albeit obtusely
Basically, who else in Oakland is getting rebounds? Jefferson played alongside the best rookie rebounder in recent memory as well as above average rebounding wings in Gomes and Miller.
I am aware of the evidence that a players’ teammates’ rebounding doesn’t markedly affect his own rebound rate. However, logically, I have to think that a 2.7% differential could be explained away as such. At any rate, I don’t think Biedrins’ rebounding is so much better than Al’s that it warrants listing in an argument for his being better than Al. If they’re not equals, they’re darn close.
by John Doe on Oct 19, 2009 3:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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