Canis Hoopus: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Around SBN: The Record of Wrongs: Vanderbilt Commodores

LeBron and HasBeen + 10

Shaq-vs-michael-phelps-swimming-challenge-01_medium

(Shaq studying his playbook.)

The Cleveland LeBrons are in town tonight and this time they've brought along an aging reality show star who is a season or two away from being fired from the Donald on Celebrity Apprentice.  

Last year's Target Center appearance from LBJ marked something of a low point for the 2008/09 Wolves.  First, the entire crowd was treated to a fantastic display of basketball by Mr. James and they were clearly more enamored with #23 than they were with the home squad.  I don't think I have ever seen a home crowd give a standing ovation to an opposing player in the 4th quarter.  Second, it gave the Wolves a 4-21 record with little or no hope of improvement.  I'm pretty sure this is the game that let Papa Glenn know the team, fan base, security staff, Crunch, and beyond had tuned Randy Wittman out as being a possible catalyst for a mid-season turnaround.  Third, there were 4th quarter chants of "we want Mad Dog" (clap, clap, clap) and "let's go Vikings" (clap, clap, clap).  Fourth, the game ended to a series of boos that were much, much louder than the buzzer.  Fifth, the team was performing at a level below the 2007/08 version of the club in a few key areas:

 

2007 (rank) 2008 (rank)
SRS -6.25 (25) -7.41 (28)
OE 103.8 (27) 101.7 (28)
DE 112.2 (27) 110.1 (26)
Attendance 25th 27th
Points diff -6.8 (30) -7.8 (28)
eFG% 45.4 (20) 48.4 (29)
deFG% 51.3 (26) 51.4 (27)
TO 15.7 (20) 15.3 (13)
Oreb% 27.5 (11) 28 (8)

 

Sixth, and most importantly, the dearly departed Rashad McCants engaged in one of the most ridiculous actions in recent Wolves memory: He tried to get physical on defense with Mr. James while jawing off at the best player on the planet.  LeBron's response (if you could call it one) was to crack a smile and torch the bench warming malcontent with the greatest of ease.  For those of you who cannot or do not want to remember the on-court action from last November/December, it is worth noting that Shaddy was doing his jawing while putting up the following numbers:

Moving over to Rashad McCants, Shaddy is currently the only guard in NBA history (with the minimum number of minutes required to qualify for the scoring title) to average less than 35% from the floor, 25.5% from 3, 1 apg, and 10 ppg.  He is epically bad.  If you extend these numbers to forwards and centers, only a 36 year old Jerome Kersey (98/99), Manute Bol (89/90), and Chuck Hayes (current season) can compete with Shaddy's ineptitude.  Each and every single Wolves fan should quickly end any fantasy of Shaddy being traded for anything other than a toaster.  He may be the single most ineffective regular in the NBA.

You tell 'em Rashad!

It's been a long year for Shaddy.  Last year at this time he was starting and dating the future Mrs. Odom:

Khloe-kardashian-rashad-mccants_medium

He is currently out of the league and without a d-list celebrity girlfriend. 

Speaking of d-list reality stars and washed-up talents, Shaq now joins the ever-entertaining and spectacular LeBron James on his return visit to the Target Center.  While I am very aware that we are only two games into the new season, the Big RealityStar is reminding all of us just how quickly he can turn an entire city of admirers into a legion of fans who want nothing to do with the guy.  Whatever happens during the remainder of the season for the Cleveland LeBrons, you can bet it will be more recognizable to a TLC producer than Mike Brown.  At least the Wolves had the good sense to vote their self-absorbed reality-wannabe off the island, unlike the Cleveland Kates who just let Jon back in the door for another year of camera time and stripper money one more shot at glory.

Hey, you get what you pay for. 

0 recs  |  Comment 68 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

More from Canis Hoopus

Enjoy the season

Feb 2010 by Stop-n-Pop - 171 comments

Revenge on Casey's Revenge

Feb 2010 by Stop-n-Pop - 121 comments

Too close for comfort

Jan 2010 by Stop-n-Pop - 223 comments

The Jonny Pod

Dec 2009 by Stop-n-Pop - 142 comments

Comments

Display:

Shaq!! Shaq!!!

The Cavs have gone from Stellar Interior Defense to just medicore due to the downgrade from Big Ben to Shaq. You also have spacing issues created by drawing defenders into the lane taking away less driving space for Lebron. This just illustrates the point that more scoring isn’t always the answer.

I wouldn’t bring this up except it illustrates a point I made about Big Al a few days ago. He just doesn’t seem to fit with the rest of the talent being constructed on this roster.

Kahn seems to have a fondness for Slashers who attack the rim and get to the line. This is a lot hard to do with a player whose game is dependent on being near the low-block. This is why I suggested trading Al for a Mobile Rebounding, Defensive Big. The three names I threw out being Horford, Noah, or Varejao. These sentiments were expressed before Wed. My basic thoughts are losing Al’s scoring could be off-set by gaining Defense and better spacing. You get a capable defensive center in here- the Wolves D could move into the Top Half of the league easily.

This sentiment takes nothing away from our need for shooters. To prevent defenders from collasping into the paing.

by Jose Cordoba on Oct 30, 2009 8:10 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Big Ben does not play stellar defense anymore.

by museum on Oct 30, 2009 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He had some ridiculous...

…+/- from last year’s Orlando series. They were something like -50 with him on the floor.

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Oct 30, 2009 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I may have to take this back

Been watching the Pistons tonight, he’s been doing a ton. Maybe the return to Detroit energized him.

by museum on Oct 30, 2009 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wallace

Last Year with the Cavs had the Best/Plus Minus on the Team.

by Jose Cordoba on Oct 30, 2009 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's the post..

….with the playoff numbers:

The 57 minutes when Ben Wallace played, and they didn’t have Joe Smith in there, they lost by 58 points.

Wow.
How could they let that happen? Ben Wallace didn’t have to play. He totally sucked. The rest of the series, the Cavaliers won by 43 points.

Didn’t you feel like Cleveland sunk into Lake Erie when the Cavaliers lost that series? It didn’t have to happen. The 57 minutes they lost by 58 points … you didn’t have to play Ben Wallace. They had Joe Smith. When Joe Smith played instead of Ben Wallace they did OK.

How could they not know that?

Adjusted +/- are here:

http://basketballvalue.com/teamplayers.php?year=2009%20playoffs&team=CLE

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Nov 1, 2009 7:58 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

my dream...

is Horford and Marvin Williams for Al, but to be honest I’d do Horford and a bad contract for Al. Yes, I like Horford that much. He’s a flat out better player, please spare me the PER barrage folks…I am talking defense, hustle, selflessness and all around winning attitude…unquantifiable, but easily observed.

Cleveland’s panic attempts to surround LeBron with talent just get worse and worse don’t they? If they had just been patient a few years back, they’d have at least one ring by now.

by DougW on Oct 30, 2009 8:23 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Horford could easily average 16 ppg, if he got more than 5 shots a game or whatever he averages for Atl. He wouldn’t command a double team, and we’d lose 7 points a game, but we win in every other aspect…including, most importantly, wins.

by DougW on Oct 30, 2009 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s probably not hard for Horford to show off that winning attitude when he plays next to Joe Johnson and Josh Smith in the mighty Southeast Division.

Undersized centers that put up 11 & 9 are a dime a dozen. Horford works hard and does a nice job for Atlanta, but you don’t trade a guy with All-Star talent for him.

I won’t be shocked if Al does end up being traded, but it would only happen a) if and when he gets healthy; and b) for a star player—not a Horford-type.

by Andy G on Oct 30, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed. Horford is not better than Al. If you trade Al, it has to be for a guy who can create his own offense, not a role player.

When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

by Xand1 on Oct 30, 2009 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Horford and Williams

I think this is actually a great idea! I love the trade. I would then target getting Pekovic to come over, and then signing Ronnie Brewer.

We make those moves, and I bet Dave Berri predicts that a healthy Wolves team can win 55 games in a season.

by Blakeley on Oct 30, 2009 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

again with the stats

We need a mobile big man, who can pass and play good enough defense to hold his player below their averages and give KLove a little help. Check, check and Horford is good on the boards and has a decent (if unpolished) offensive game. We lose very little and gain so much. Horford is underutilzed in ATL and forced to play out of position, but he plays his ass off night in and out and does the grunt work without complaint…and does a damn good job.

Did you happen to catch Al Horford leading the Gators to back to back championships or help lift the Hawks into the playoffs his rookie season, where they gave Boston their biggest challenge en route to a title? Really, I am not making this up, the guy is a winner.

by DougW on Oct 30, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please

Give me an example of a player that would be worthy of trading Al for. I really want to hear what you think he’s worth.

by DougW on Oct 30, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We would need to get a young player who is either already an All-Star or shows the promise to become an All-Star. Because that is what Al Jefferson is. I’m not the only one who thinks so — read just about any analysis of him and the Wolves by a respected source and you’ll read the same thing.

Jefferson is much more valuable than Horford because his skills are a) more important and b) less common. There are a lot of players around the league that can provide energy and defense. There are very few that can be consistently relied upon to score baskets down the stretch of a game. If the Wolves had enough talent to play in more close games, this would become more obvious.

Last night, Carmelo Anthony (another guy often criticized for defense and passing) showed why he’s now an MVP candidate. He totally dominated with his scoring down the stretch and his team won at Portland. I’m sure there have been a lot of Denver fans that pined for a less-talented, more defensive-oriented player in his position in the past. Had they traded him (and it sounds like they almost did, at one point) they would have gotten pennies on the dollar.

This isn’t college ball. There is less ball movement and more need for guys that can score one-on-one and command double teams. I’m not saying that energy/hustle guys aren’t important, but they are more common and have less importance in any given ballgame. If that weren’t the case, Corey Brewer would be valued higher than Rudy Gay. But, that just isn’t reality.

by Andy G on Oct 30, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed again – couldn’t have said it better myself.

As far as who I would move Al for, if it comes down to that, well let me start with: Definitely not Horford, Varejao or Noah, or at least not those guys primarily.

If it comes down to it, I look for players with, at the very least, all-star potential to center a package around. Guys like Anthony Randolph or Brook Lopez. Not defensive role players. That’s just bad return on your asset, and no argument you guys can make is going to convince me otherwise, because as Andy G says, those guys just aren’t as valuable as Al. You don’t get better by taking a step backward without the potential to take two forward.

When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

by Xand1 on Oct 30, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good Luck

Getting Brook Lopez-

As far as Anthony Randolph-perhaps. He’s not what I’d exactly call a finished product at this point in his career either. I’m still sticking by my suggestions as good fits.

by Jose Cordoba on Oct 30, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you are trying to maximize value in a trade that involves your #1 guy, you’re most likely going to have to gamble on an unfinished product with a high ceiling. It’s rare that a team is going to offer you a similar caliber player straight up, so you’re stuck either taking back lesser players and giving up value or rolling the dice like we did with Al in the KG deal.

When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

by Xand1 on Oct 31, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The move Al campaign begins now!

He has a reasonable contract and if we could somehow flip him for a comparably flawed 2/3 we’d be better off in the long run. Having seeng Pekovic play (granted just one game of Euro league playoffs) dude is dead ringer for what Al brings to the club (sick post moves, nice face up j, limited passing/defense).

Whenever he comes over he’ll be good enough to play major minutes, throw in Love and Al is looking mighty disposable.

If there was some way we could flip Al for someone like Igoudala I would do it (although I understand salary-wise that’s not a match). Al is good enough to be the second best player on a good team – if he ever starts playing defense (which I would argue is unlikely at this point).

Looking forward to Big Mac Shaq and Lebron showdown tonight.

by Dikembe is Immortal on Oct 30, 2009 8:55 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Al is paid

like the 2nd or 3rd best player on a contending team, so unless you guys (Jose, Doug W, etc.) think his value to the team is less than that, then it would be tough to get equal value in return for him. I think we need to let this season play out and see how he adapts to Rambis’ system. Remember that last year not only did he sport a sparkling PER, but he also had a solid net +/- rating. We were better defensively and offensively with him on the court than off it. I agree that trading him may end up being a good option, but I’m not ready to make that conclusion just yet.

by Rascal Flatts on Oct 30, 2009 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

let's not forget

that this season is little more than Kahn and Rambis seeing what they have to work with. If they feel that Al can’t work in their system, they will see what they can get for him. No one on this team is untradable.

by TheEvilProfessor on Oct 30, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That does nothing to dispell the notion that trading Jefferson for Horford is a bad idea. It’s a significant drop in talent, regardless of system.

by Andy G on Oct 30, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly. No one is arguing that he’s untradeable, merely that he’s worth more than the names being thrown around here.

When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

by Xand1 on Oct 30, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But, the system is everything

If you are going to make that argument, why not take it a step further, why not just assemble a team with the best offensive stats, regardless of position or playing style? We can have ten 6-9 double, double guys that all hate to play defense and never pass.

Yes, that is ridiculous, but that is the extreme example of talent over need. This is a team game, it’s not fantasy basketball where players just put up stats in a vacuum. The right player in the right system can make his teammates and the team better, the wrong player can have just the opposite effect.

Also, you guys say you want a player that is at least as good and promising as Lopez or A.Randolph. I just don’t see those guys as being available for a Jefferson quality player. Their current teams are very high on them and Lopez, in particular, looks like he could be a better player than Al by the end of this season. Teams don’t trade guys with this kind of upside, unless they have to.

We all seem to agree that for all of Jefferson’s talents, he has some significant flaws. I would argue that “star” players do not have significant flaws after six years in the league. And I think it is completely unrealistic that we are going to get a star player in return for him, much less a young player with superstar potential (and right or wrong, I believe that is the Nets/Warriors view on Lopez/Randolph).

I’d happily settle for a very good young player who meets a glaring need. Horford fits that bill well. My fear is we couldn’t even get him for Al.

by DougW on Oct 30, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The point

is that Al can be very good in someone elses system. Everytime you change systems you just don’t unload anyone who isn’t an ideal fit for pennies on the dollar. That is poor resource management.

by TheEvilProfessor on Oct 30, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You’re letting your apparently very pessimistic opinion of Al lead you to believing that he’s that undervalued league wide, which is something I find hard to believe. I

‘m not necessarily arguing that Al is a great fit, and certainly not that he’s untradeable, just that we could get much more for him than you guys think. I’m willing to bet that Horford goes down as a solid team player with a PER in the 16-18 range for most of his career. He’ll be a nice player – more than a role player, but far from a star, and what he brings is not as rare as what Al brings. In fact, we already have a guy who almost exactly what Horford does, aside from some minor skillset differences (i.e. blocks), in Love.

All of this is moot, luckily, because there’s no way the team gives up that much value in a trade.

When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

by Xand1 on Oct 30, 2009 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’d trade Al for Brook Lopez right now, I wouldn’t even think twice.

by museum on Oct 30, 2009 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5264741
significantly less cap space but good trade for us system wise either way al doesn’t fit

by KahningPups on Oct 30, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

First off, just to be clear, I’m referring to the Jefferson that played last year. He looked bad the other night, and I’m assuming that’s due to rehabbing the knee and whatnot. Most guys recover well from ACL tears, so I’m assuming he’ll fall in that group.

With regard to system, it’s sort of important, but not really. Two reasons: (1) The talent drop is too significant to make the system matter. Monta Ellis is a perfect guard for an up-tempo system. But you still wouldn’t trade Kobe Bryant for him. Same with Jefferson and Horford. (2) Systems, aside from 7SOL in New York, are mostly the same. Rambis and Kahn can talk about fast breaking until their heads spin, but it won’t change the fact that the NBA is first a half-court league, and (distant) second, a fast break league.

The anti-Jefferson crowd seems to have an obsession with players that cannot be relied upon to score. Rather than have a lineup of players like Carmelo Anthony and Al Jefferson, they’d rather have Marvin Williams and Kevin Love. The anti-Jefferson crowd did not watch the Wolves without Jefferson, last year. Or they weren’t paying attention. Or something. That basketball, with a bunch of scrappy guys that can’t get their own shot, is not fun. It sucks when you need to pass 17 times just to get a Bassy trey in the corner. Kevin Love, for all his hustle and willingness to pass, does nothing to draw defensive attention and create easy shots. He needs guys like Jefferson to do that. Horford can’t help there, either.

It’s just too easy to defend a team of non-scorers. Nobody gets double teamed, and you’re going to take a lot of off-balance shots.

by Andy G on Oct 30, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The anti-Jefferson crowd did not watch the Wolves without Jefferson, last year. Or they weren’t paying attention. Or something.

…or they realize that this is a better team, with a real coach, and a real GM who actually have a clue and a vision for the future, and like where things could be headed and see Jefferson as a valuable trade asset that could help us get there sooner.

by DougW on Oct 30, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jefferson is a valuable trade asset. So is every young star player in the league. But you don’t trade him for a role player. That slows the development process.

by Andy G on Oct 30, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

not to mention

that due to the double teams on Big Al, if Al can master the elbow pass, he and Flynn can do the give and go allllll night long. Flynn is just to fast for Al’s defender to catch him.

by TheEvilProfessor on Oct 30, 2009 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've sat through some pretty Horrendous stretches with Al

Where the Wolves weren’t exactly helped by His D. Clearly having only 1 competent post player didn’t work.

As far as loving players like Marvin Willams? Yes- Since Scoring in many ways is a function of opportunity. So LMA, Rudy Gay, nor Jeff Green are great scorers they only shoot a lot.

by Jose Cordoba on Oct 30, 2009 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

less than or equal to

I see your point about matching up the salaries, but the two counters to that are 1) you are making an assumption that all players current salaries are fixed at their current worth, when in fact the group of players we’d probably most like to target are still on rookie deals 2) regardless of all of this….you can make any deal work by throwing in any odd non-core or expiring contract.

I honestly do think that Al may be the third best player on this team, behind Flynn and Love. He may still be the most talented, but no longer the best in a more uptempo, ball sharing system.

by DougW on Oct 30, 2009 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

True

But a guy like Horford is up for an extension soon. Those rookie deals are mighty short when it’s a really good up-and-coming player that teams want to lock in. The bottom-line is whether we can deploy that 13-14M of salary on talent(s) that will help the team more than keeping Al Jefferson around. I’m open to the propect that the answer is yes. But I also believe most folks around the NBA consider Al’s contract a solid value for what he produces. The uptempo, ball-sharing system is fun to watch and can be effective, but when it comes to a grind-it-out 7-game playoff series, it doesn’t hurt to have a big horse you can throw it into when in need of a bucket. You may be right on this, but I’m not quite there yet.

by Rascal Flatts on Oct 30, 2009 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you're so close, I know you want it :)

I think everything is pointing you towards the light, but you keep going back to:

“when it comes to a grind-it-out 7-game playoff series, it doesn’t hurt to have a big horse you can throw it into when in need of a bucket.”

Newsflash: we are still one of the worst teams in the league. Building this team for a seven game series is putting the cart before the horse. We need to define our playing style and structure a cohesive team before we can even begin to think about the playoffs. Furthermore, a go to guy can just as easily be a perimeter player that can get to the line at will (Hello Jonny!). Go to offensive players don’t grow on trees, but I don’t think it is too much to expect that we can find one that fits into our system as well.

by DougW on Oct 30, 2009 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s not just 7 game series, it’s 82 games a year. And forgive me if I’m not ready to call a guy who has one game under his belt a sure thing to take on that role.

by museum on Oct 30, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't mean that

Although, I certainly hope that this small sample size from Flynn is no fluke. I just wanted to give an example. Plenty of teams rely on a guard as their go-to player. In fact, that seems to be where the league is heading.

Not having a go to guy is indeed a serious hole, but so is awful interior defense. Lets face it, we have several holes. I think a Jefferson trade could fill a couple, even if it does open one new one temporarily.

by DougW on Oct 30, 2009 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, I’m down with Flynn. Don’t get me wrong, I think he could be awesome. And of course the go-to player can be a guard, I don’t know if anyone would argue that.

And yeah, we definitely have a lot of holes. I firmly believe that interior defense is the one any team would prefer to fill though, as opposed to having a go-to scorer.

by museum on Oct 30, 2009 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, about trading for Horford – I’m not sure if they’d be more or less into the idea with Joe Johnson a likely candidate to be leaving after the year. Maybe more into it, with the need for a scorer being greater. But Al would need to have a healthy year.

Not saying I’d do it, but I’d consider it.

by museum on Oct 30, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also:

“Go to offensive players don’t grow on trees, but I don’t think it is too much to expect that we can find one that fits into our system as well.”

We’ve found either one or two in 20 years, depending how you want to classify Al.

by museum on Oct 30, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's not completely fair

we’ve had Jefferson for two and had KG for 12 years. So 14 of 20 years this team has had a go-to scorer. And what about Ray Allen and Brandon Roy :)?

They wore a Wolves hat.

I don’t think its quite as hard as guys like McHale and Trader Jack made it look.

by DougW on Oct 30, 2009 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We've had that type of player for 14 of 20 years

That shows teams generally hold on to those players when they get them. And I think that they’ve got good reason to.

Also note that we had to trade the first one (KG) to get the second one (Al). These guys are really, really difficult to get on your roster, at least when you’re not an attractive free agent destination.

by museum on Oct 30, 2009 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

when you are one of the worst run sports teams in the country

then yes, it is difficult to get good players. But McHale is gone…and even he managed to get three of them (Allen, KG, Roy) and probably would have inadvertently stumbled on at least one more if Stern hadn’t stripped all of our picks.

We have never been in a better position in terms of cap space and draft picks. We are holding a lot of cards to make this happen.

This whole “we have to hold on to any talent we can get”, because we are the Timberwolves and we are in Mpls and we suck attitude is so defeatist. Yes we have a go-to scorer, but ironically, he is a terrible defensive player, a reluctant passer and a slow footed, lane clogger on a team that is otherwise built to run and get to the hoop. We can do better…yes we can.

by DougW on Oct 30, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe it’s defeatist, but if you’re going to tell me top tier NBA free agents will come to MN, show me the evidence.

That doesn’t mean we can’t build a winner. We’ve done it before.

Also, Roy and Allen don’t count. Try that argument if you want, but nobody has the arms to make that reach. To say that we had them is just evidence that you shouldn’t let players slip through your fingers.

by museum on Oct 30, 2009 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

I think one major problem with the “scoring is overrated” argument is that you have to have a guy to go to for a basket when you need one. If you don’t have that, you have a serious hole. And that hole is probably harder to fill than any other hole you can have in the NBA. Al is a guy that if he stays healthy (knock on wood) will be capable of that for a long time. We’d have to get another player who’s capable as well, Al isn’t so good he can do it on his own, but you don’t sell off guys like that for good role players.

I do like Horford though, mainly for what I think he will be.

by museum on Oct 30, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You typically need at least two of those guys, which is the problem with trading Al for a guy who is most definitely NOT a go-to player like Horford. All the championship teams had at least two go-to guys, typically one inside and one outside. Shaq/Kobe, Duncan/Parker/Manu, Pierce/KG/Allen..

When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

by Xand1 on Oct 30, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Few Points

1. His backups consisted of Jason Collins and Mark Madsen. He should have a positive plus/minus considering. We had pathetic size without Al minus the Speed to off-set it.

2. Al’s production doesn’t bottom-line translate to wins. I’m beginning to wonder if the holes in his game (Defense, and Passing) tremendously downgrade his scoring abilities. It should be noted that Portland traded Zach Randolph coming off a PER of nearly 23 and increased their Win Total by 8.

3. I’m not against keeping Al nor playing Al with Kevin long-term. I’m just questioning the fit with the rest of the roster.

by Jose Cordoba on Oct 30, 2009 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Much as Shaq is a self-centered dope

I have to give it up to the way he played here late last year.

A couple of games after the Suns got nixed from the postseason, Shaq showed no quit at all against the hopeless late-season Wolves. At one point he went headlong into the Gatorade behind the Wolves’ bench.

He might be a bad fit in Cleveland, okay, but summer show or no, I have to respect that kind of effort. The Wolves on the floor weren’t doing it, and they had a lot more to prove.

by feral on Oct 30, 2009 9:07 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Shaq May be a Has Been

But, what he Once Was was one of the top ten players of all time. Let’s not forget that.

Pining for a Troy Hudson/Marko Jaric backcourt.

by SBG on Oct 30, 2009 9:45 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

you...

…Definitely can’t take that away from him. I don’t deny that orson welles was one the greatest but that doesn’t preclude me from taking shots at the fat guy doing voice work in a transformers cartoon.

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Oct 30, 2009 9:55 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

I enjoyed the post

Shaq is funny, and used to be awesome, but it’s now fun to take some shots at him.

Looking forward to the game, tonight. Brewer defended LBJ pretty well as a rookie, and that matchup will be interesting. Obviously he’s not going to shut him down, but if he can do what Pietrus did in the playoffs, and make him work for everything—at the expense of his teammates involvement, we could make the game a close one.

by Andy G on Oct 30, 2009 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did you guys watch either of the other Clevleand games? How did Boston defend LBJ? Did they aggressively double him every time he tried to get into the lane and force him into either passing or contested jumpers? That’s what I’d do if I were Rambis, I think. We’re obviously not as gifted defensively as the C’s, but pack it in near the hoop and send a 2nd defender every time LBJ catches it and looks to drive. Make the rest of them beat you and make LBJ work his ass off..

When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

by Xand1 on Oct 30, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I saw the Boston game

and it was more of the same, LeBron up top, a quasi 1-2-2 zone in front of him, with a defender (Pierce) slightly sagging and inviting long jumpers. No imagination from the Cavs’ offense, and no contributions from LBJ’s teammates.

It’ll be important to avoid turnovers, tonight. The Cavs don’t look to push the ball, unless there’s a steal, and in those cases, it ends with a huge LBJ dunk.

by Andy G on Oct 30, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’d have to imagine we’ll play him the same way, or at least we should. It helps to have Kg, Sheed and Perk up front, but having two people coming at him is always better than single coverage. May as well guard him with a wet paper towel if you go 1 on 1..

When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

by Xand1 on Oct 30, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hah! The Wolves have Corey Brewer for wet paper towel duty…

by levi_mn on Oct 30, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stick Shaq on the Wolves Right Now

And he’s the best center in club history. I’m not ready to write off the Cleveland club just yet — or Shaq in a Cleveland uni.

Pining for a Troy Hudson/Marko Jaric backcourt.

by SBG on Oct 30, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey--good idea for some diversion

when the Wolves are like, 4-11.

Rank the Wolves centers throughout history, from “Below Replacement Level” at the top, all the way down to “Paul Grant.”

Then, as Shaq inevitably declines, note when he passes each one on the way down. With a discussion of how at say, the age of 52, and the fact that he can’t walk, and is 100 pounds above his playing weight, is he still better than Gary Leonard, or not.

by PoorDick on Oct 30, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, that was Damning Him with Some Mighty Faint Praise

Although Randy Breuer did throw in 40 that one time.

Pining for a Troy Hudson/Marko Jaric backcourt.

by SBG on Oct 30, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

True

My personal belief is that he would be best used off the bench to pound on opposing team’s 2nd unit big men. This probably maximizes his value to the squad while also allowing the starting lineup to streamline into a much more mobile and versatile unit (I like the LeBron-as-PF idea). I just don’t think Shaq’s ego would allow him to accept that role.

by Rascal Flatts on Oct 30, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

who goin to de game yall?

ima be der again mayn luv me o hate me mayn yall cant say i aint de bigess wolves fan der iz mayn ima be chiefin on de kill an sippin on de 7 dolla miller lites mayn nahm sayin mayn on de real mayn. mah season seats iz way too thowed os look out fo me ima be de wun yellin MAYN HOL UP! Dis W would be amazing fo de wolves mayn less git it!

MAYN HOL UP!

by MAYNHOLUP on Oct 30, 2009 1:08 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

We're going to get steamrolled tonight.

I think LeBron will see a game against Minnesota as the perfect opportunity to hang a 30-point victory and shut some critics up.

by LoveTo on Oct 30, 2009 2:48 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I’d much rather they be 2-0 than 0-2.

by museum on Oct 30, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

May well be the best chance for Nathan Jawai

to use his considerable bulk tonight.

I might go and check what the bookies have on offer for a LBJ triple double…..

Judd: "...I've since watched some Steven Seagal movies and I realise that pressure points are no laughing matter.".

by Auswolf on Oct 30, 2009 3:41 PM CDT via mobile reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Canis Hoopus is straight T-Wolves straight from Minnesota.
Start posting about the Timberwolves »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Small
Comparison of PER's for draftees for 2010 and 2009 (top 25 for each yr)
Small
Wolves Draft History: Stats people please help?
Small
An Attempt to Clarify the Argument
Small
Are argument to get Rubio here next season! the new CBA could reduce salaries and guaranteed money for rookies.
3358_small
Vote Corey over MJ NOW!!!!
Wolfen_small
The Point Guard Conundrum
Dsc00186_small
Kahn: Kevin Martin NOT coming to Wolves, in so many words!
Wolveslogo_small
Prowling the NBA: Feb 7 - BOOM SHAKALAKA
Small
Rookie Comparison
Small
I've got to know

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Canis Hoopus Twitter

    follow me on Twitter

    Hoopus Features

    Salary Cap Info

    Draft Info

    EuroWatch

    Stats

    Draft Boards

    Former Tag Lines:

    • In desperate need of an epic dose of basketball Viagra
    • Your source of radical left wing politics cleverly disguised as basketball fandom
    • Palin-Free since before statehood
    • The world's leading exporter of small area quickness
    • Sorry…I have no idea who is Joe Mauer
    • Home of the Peja deep douche
    • Vote McGrady!

    Misc:

     

    Self-Promotion

    BallHype Sports Blog Rankings

    SPONSORS


    Managers

    Dr wyn

    Img_2487_small Stop-n-Pop