D-League
by Stop-n-Pop on Nov 15, 2009 8:39 AM CST
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David Kahn wrote another letter. This time from his seat on the plane to Memphis. The shorter version goes like this: We have lost a large number of games, we need to try hard, and more changes are on the way. One item in particular caught my attention:
We are 1-9, having lost nine in a row. Our record was to be expected – but it will not be accepted.
Big difference, I think.
That's not the difference Mr. Kahn needs to be worried about. Last year the team started out 2-9 over its first 11 games. This year they are 1-10 and a miracle 4th quarter comeback against the league's only winless team away from being 0-11. They have lost their last 6 games by an average of just over 20 ppg. They have tied team records for most points given up in a game and largest margin of defeat. They have toyed with putting up a franchise low in field goal percentage. During the game against Dallas, the first 8 Wolves on the court were two Dallas big man cast-offs (Ryan Hollins and Nathan Jawai), Ryan Gomes, Corey Brewer, Jonny Flynn, Brian Cardinal, Sasha Pavlovic, and Oleksiy Pecherov.
Put yourselves in the shoes of a casual sports fans. What do you know about the Wolves? They traded two starters (who are having good years with their new team) for a player who is still over in Europe and putting up modest numbers in very limited minutes. They sent two more rotation players to the Clippers for a player who never showed up and who was moved to Miami for a contract of a player that used to be here and who no one really liked. Here's his jersey:
It really rolls off the tongue, doesn't it?
Meanwhile, back in casual fan land the Wolves are 10 games into a new season where their shiny new point guard doesn't really seem to be able to distribute the rock and a point guard taken 4 picks after him just went off for 55 and is the early-season leader for the (Brandon) ROY award (to say nothing of the PG they drafted at 18 and traded away). The buzz from the local media is that the team's offensive system and its personnel don't exactly fit, and that the reason for this may have something to do with David Kahn's decision to wait for hiring a coach until well after the draft. The team's offense has fallen off a cliff and their defense isn't anything to write home about.
I'm going to watch these games no matter what. The league already has my money for League Pass and I've bought a Wolves hat and a warm up jacket for myself, and some shirts for my daughters. If I've rode out the storm for this long, I'm the type of fan that is going to know about, and stick around for, a cache of draft picks and cap space...no matter how small amount of faith I have at the people making draft day decisions or how little I believe in the chance of this team landing a top-flight free agent. This team needs to hit the jackpot in the draft and I'm hopeful that the Rubio thing will work out and that they will...well, 1-10 isn't always a bad thing for those of us sticking around for a while. Although, getting back to the casual fan, "Bring on John Wall!" isn't exactly something the team can actively promote during the season.
With Al Jefferson somewhere in the neighborhood of 75% and Kevin Love on the DL, this team is much, much worse than it was last year. Its top draft choice is in Europe and it is getting blown out on a nightly basis. The difference Mr. Kahn needs to worry about is the one that exists in the minds of the casual Minnesota sports fan; the one that views the current product as little more than a glorified D-League team that is worse off than last year's 24-win squad. You can bet your britches that some local columnist is already hard at work on the column that draws a line between the former D-League owner and his current team.
Anywho, there was a game last night.
- The Memphis feed on League Pass was the single most amateur TV production I have ever seen in professional sports. Aside from the fact that there was no scoreboard or clock on the screen, the Memphis TV crew kept cutting away to replays of the action directly in the middle of Timberwolves possessions. Guys would literally be driving to the hoop and the broadcast would cut away to a reply of Marc Gasol grabbing a rebound over Ryan Gomes. The sound was atrocious, the video sometimes didn't match up with what the announcers were talking about, the camera would zoom in and out during breaks, and did I mention the replays during the action? Simply awful. Here is an artist's rendering of their lead producer:
- The Wolves shot 9 free throws against the Griz. Non-Ramon Sessions Wolves took only 3 free throws. If you are a poor shooting team that doesn't move the ball well, free throws are your only friend. This team absolutely will not win without getting to the line. It doesn't have the shooters or the wing players to make that sort of thing happen.
- After starting the game 5-7, Corey Brewer spent the last 3 quarters going 2-12 from the field.
- Funniest story of the game: Somewhere in the 3rd quarter Nate Jawai went for a rebound and placed his forearm on the back of Marc Gasol. The European center promptly did what you expected him to do: act like he was shot with a high-powered rifle. Gasol drew the call but later fouled out when Ryan Gomes gave him the Connecticut version of the Euro Dive by overreacting to Gasol touching him in the back. Gasol had the last laugh. 8-8 from the floor, 16 rebounds and a victory will do that for you.
- Memphis apparently did not get a copy of the Wolves/GSW game tape. It took them the better part of 3 quarters before realizing that between O.J. Mayo, Rudy Gay, Sam Young, DeMarre Caroll, and Mike Conley they had more wing players than Corey Brewer could guard at once and that they could give the Wolves fits in transition. Perhaps Memphis' junior high TV crew is also responsible for gathering game film.
- Jonny Flynn had a 1:2 a/to ratio last night. It doesn't even begin to explain how poorly he facilitated the offense. Too often he catches the ball and just sits there out on the perimeter when he should catch and shoot or immediately drive before his defender can set his feet. Gone is the guy we saw controling the dribble in the lane during Summer League. Flipping over to the Bucks game and Brandon Jennings, we saw a player who controlled the dribble on nearly every possession. Granted, Jennings plays in a different offense but Flynn has the tools to control the dribble deep into the lane and to get to where he wants to go with the ball. Standing out on the perimeter is not an option for a player with his skill set.
- Kevin Love needs to come back, rebound the ball, and get to the line. He's not going to turn around the team but he will make things much, much better. Ryan Hollins and Nate Jawai are not cutting it.
Four Factors:
| Pace | Eff | eFG | FT/FG | OREB% | TOr | |
| Minnesota | 97.0 | 89.7 | 48.8% | 7.2 | 15.0 | 20.6 |
| Memphis | 100.0 | 50.0% | 21.3 | 28.6 | 21.6 |
Game Flow. Griz blog: Straight Outta Vancouver
OK, that about does it.
Until later.
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The main difference between Jennings and Flynn...
… is that Jennings makes quick decisions with the ball and Flynn does not. Jennings either makes the right pass as soon as he touches it, or he slices through the defense to create something for himself or others. Flynn, on the other hand, catches the ball, holds it & assesses the defense for what sometimes feels like an eternity, and then decides to pass or shoot. Some of this might be the different systems they play in, but I feel like a big part of Jonny’s failure to rack up assist numbers this year is that defenses have time to react before he makes his passes. Even if JF had better players to pass to, I’m not sure that his assist totals will be anything to write home about until he adjusts to the speed of the game.
The main difference between Jennings and Flynn...
Is that Flynn is a professional rookie, and Jennings already has a year of professional basketball under his belt.
There are a bunch of other differences to be sure, but it’s impossible to compare Jennings to a true rookie class when considering he has been a pro for over a year now. Let’s see where they are all at when the season ends. I’m fairly certain that Jennings will still be head and shoulders beyond Flynn, but hopefully for the Wolves he will have developed at least a modicum of decent assists to match his potential scoring output. IE: closed the gaps in his game that EVERY rookie goes through as the season progresses.
"When a hyper-intense guy looks for ways to fire himself up, yeah, it pretty much comes out as wild eyed psycho lunacy." - Jeff Clark from C's blog on KG
by Khalid El-Amin on Nov 15, 2009 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
Agree.
It is very obvious that the year of professional ball went a long way in both maturing Jennings as a person but also maturing his game, both his understanding of it and slowing it down. The Bucks have put the ball in his hands, and they are letting him create.
I think that Rambis is still trying to get Flynn to learn a very difficult system. It’s obvious that Flynn is thinking the system still and not simply reacting a game speed. This will be a work in progress. It seems that Rambis isn’t going to let Flynn have the freedom to play open until he has a strong understanding of what the system can produce. From watching his game, I’m pretty sure that Flynn can put points up with a PnR and dribble drive game. But, that is all that he’ll be if doesn’t learn how to run the triangle first.
by Krotz the Wall on Nov 16, 2009 10:06 AM CST up reply actions
Disagree
The one year in Europe is hardly a noticeable advantage over two years in the Big East. Especially when Flynn is older than Jennings and got way more playing time for his team than Jennings did for his. College ball is a phenomenal way for a player to develop his game. I don’t think Flynn can use two years of playing starting point guard at Syracuse as an excuse for being a less-productive offensive player than Jennings, who got bench minutes for 40 or so games in Europe.
The triangle offense is a whole different deal, though. If the players swapped roles, Flynn might look better. It’s hard to say. Jennings looked ridiculous against Golden State — part of that might be Monta’s incredibly weak defense, though. As much as it was fun to watch Jennings pour in jumper after jumper, that simply would not happen against a defender with more pride than that.
I also think most scouts would say
Jennings has more natural PG skills than Flynn, in terms of pure speed, handles, and court vision. It’s the intangibles that were called into question by some, plus his ability to shoot the ball. So far he’s been the superior PG, but we’ll see. We’ve seen teams led by guys like Marbury and Iverson underachieve even though those guys are supremely gifted players. So far Jennings has been a huge breath of fresh air for a Milwaukee franchise that has stumbled along in obscurity for many years now.
by Rascal Flatts on Nov 16, 2009 11:26 AM CST up reply actions
This bodes well
For Ricky Rubio:
Jennings has more natural PG skills than Flynn, in terms of pure speed, handles, and court vision.
And Ricky’s playing more than a year in Euroleague and at a younger age than Jennings! Hey-ooooooooooooo!!!!!!!
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Nov 17, 2009 12:19 PM CST up reply actions
How do you figure that...
1 year of playing pro ball, against a generally better level of player, not being a star player so having to work for his minutes, fit in with the team, face actual adversity in his sport, and be in situations and places unfamiliar with him… be at all comparable as playing college ball for 2 years? I’m not saying that Euro leagues are comparable to the NBA. I’m saying that being a Pro ball player is a lot different than being a college ball player. Jennings has a step on Flynn in that area… experience at a different level of the game.
You might want to look back through what I wrote. I said that Jennings seems to be having a lot less adjustment issues to the NBA, part of which I attribute to his pro experience last year. I have a feeling that being back in the US, after having experienced what he did last year, he’s confidant, having a lot of fun, and somewhat more used to the grind.
I also made specific mention that part of what Flynn is facing a learning curve for an offensive system, and a coach that is holding him inside that system rather than letting him fly around and play the pick and roll or simply drive the basket. To me, that implies that I’m saying that Flynn’s numbers would be higher, at least his scoring numbers, if Rambis put the ball in his hands and said, “Show me what you can do… anything.”
by Krotz the Wall on Nov 16, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
I was also replying to the poster before you...
about the general idea that one year of being a bench player in Europe gives an advantage over two full seasons as a starter in the Big East, and everything that comes along with playing in a successful college program.
I was trying to agree with you about the offensive system remarks.
Question about figuring players out
Do NBA players get ‘figured out’? I would think yes, but I wanted to get a broader perspective. What I mean by figure out is that teams start to pick up the little nuances and ‘tells’ of a given player wants to do and either can anticipate (if playing man to man defense) or make a schematic adjustment (specific team help defense) to neutralize a given player. Unless you’re a Kobe, DWade, etc, and you can beat people whether they know what’s coming or not, do you think there will be noticeable different career development/achievement difference between letting a guy like Jennings play as if he’s a Kobe (relying on him beating opponents even if they know what’s coming) or making a guy learn a system to fall back on for production when a team game plans to stop/limit him?
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
I'd remind everyone..
…that Flynn didn’t exactly have a college record that set the world on fire. If it weren’t for that 6 overtime game he’s probably starting for Syracuse right now. I think he has more skills than I first thought but I think people forget just how underwhelming his college record was compared to other players in the draft. I think that, more than anything, is catching up with him right now.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Very true.
I was never under the assumption that Flynn would come in and set the world on fire. From what I’ve seen so far, i think that Flynn can become a very good starting PG in the league. He’s got an above average handle, close to a great handle it seems. He’s just never really been a floor general before. I think he’s got the smarts to add that to his game. I don’t have a problem with Rambis keeping Flynn inside the system right now… I just don’t think I’d be giving him starters minutes while doing so.
by Krotz the Wall on Nov 17, 2009 10:26 AM CST up reply actions
His crappy college stats worried the hell out of me.
And still does. People were comparing him to Chris Paul, and I was thinking “why?” Because they’re both short? Chris Paul is, and always has been, a phenom. I don’t know why anyone thought Flynn would be a better pro than Paul.
I am not too impressed with Flynn so far. He does not have a great handle, he seems extremely prone to bungling the ball away on unforced errors.
He does have good touch on his shots, though. Unfortunately, he doesn’t look like he’s going to be a better pro than Foye so far. I hope he improves.
by Princely Frank on Nov 17, 2009 1:27 PM CST up reply actions
I'm gonna compare you guys
to the best commenters ever. Uh, Thomas Paine? Confucius?
by Princely Frank on Nov 17, 2009 7:33 PM CST up reply actions
Sessions
The one thing I never quite understood was how Flynn got the starting nod from the get go this year, no questions asked. This is not a Derrick Rose-Kirk Hinrich situation, where one guy is a potential franchise changing PG with massive upside and the other guy is a steady vet that has hit his career plateau. Sessions is still young himself; why is he any less likely to be our long term answer at PG than Flynn? Sessions hasn’t been great, but he is clearly the superior PG right now.
I felt all along that
Flynn needed to earn his minutes this year like Love did last season. I really believe rookies respond to this challenge and learn the correct way to play. Those who don’t respond are probably not the long-term player you need anyway, so find out early.
The TV "Broadcast"
The reason the Memphis feed on LP was the “single most amateur TV production I have ever seen in professional sports” is because it wasn’t a TV broadcast. Their local TV affiliate didn’t carry the game either. What we saw and heard was their radio feed and the video from the scoreboard. Thats why replays were so often and in such bad places. That broadcast’s primary audience isn’t League Pass or TV viewers, its meant for the people in the arena.
I can say this with 99.99% certainty because I work with broadcasts at my college. When we aren’t doing a game for TV, we still need to broadcast it online, so we take the feed off of the scoreboard. While it is annoying as a viewer, I understand that it the alternative for a game like that with no TV is to have no video available on League Pass at all.
I don’t know about you, but I’d rather have what we saw over nothing at all.
So it's still bush league?
I know what it is. It’s still a pro sports team with a JV broadcast.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Granted that the TV-crew shouldn’t be blamed but the onces responsible for League Pass. If you say people can watch every game they expect to be able to watch every game the way it’s supposed to.
If this was on a pirated stream we’d have no problem with it .. but letting us pay to watch every game possible but not having a tv crew in there is what’s wrong.
Either way, thanks for the info; already expected there was something going on since we got the radio feed.
Official Kahn/Rambis band-wagon rider since 2009
by Wim (Belgium) on Nov 16, 2009 2:32 AM CST up reply actions
The more Kahn writes this stuff
the more unimpressed I become with him. (By the way, the staff finally figured out away to get me, a long time partial, 4 seat, lower bowl, between the baseline season ticket holder, on the mailing list!!! Way to go guys!!)
I was quite concerned when Kahn did not rehire McHale, not because I had all that much love for McHale, but because it signaled to me that Kahn, out of the league for what 5+ years – was going to try and put his immediate stamp on the franchise. That struck me wrong for 2 reasons
1- I did not think Kahn had enough current NBA experience to do it (but even worse)
2- it demonstrated that he had an ego that was just a little too big for what I considered to be needed for a rebuilding job. Frankly, the history of the NBA is littered with 1st time GM/VPBO who flamed out with these 2 characteristics.
Kahn then committed the 2 biggest mistakes a newcomer can make – he ignored the recommendations of the existing staff (sorry – can’t comment too much here) and he f-ed up the restructuring of the team.
Franchises that have successfully rebuilt themselves have restructured in this order:
1- Owner hires a sharp. progressive GM who then
2 – hires a coach he feels can work with him, who together
3- establish a style of play that they feel will be successful from which
4- the GM retools the roster to supplement/replace existing players to play that style while
5 – the coach focuses on existing player development
Kahn did it almost backwards. He blew up the roster, settled on a style of play, then hired the coach (who really never supported that style of play) and left him with a roster where the best player does not fit with the style of play.
I will personally be thrilled if Kahn’s process works and we are in the playoffs in 2 years. He will have broken a paradigm in the way NBA franchises are turned around.
But if I see lots more comments like the other night I will be a former season ticket holder next year. (when Kahn threatened to blow up the roster some more for lack of effort – HELLO – who brought those guys here – it was NOT McHale (only 4 of those guys left and Cardinal/Brewer always play hard, Love has not played, Big Al – well…..),
He needs to stop writing these things
It just reeks of panic and I think the thing we’re all worried about is that he’ll make a crazy trade in a panic. You can’t just go threatening to blow up the roster again after 10 games…especially with the 2 best players out of action and the majority of the roster being brought in by the guy saying he’ll blow it up. BTW: I’ve heard the ignored recommendation stuff as well. I don’t think Jonny Flynn was a pre-Kahn favorite.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
I like the letters.
Maybe specifically threatening to blow up the team was bad form (and really, how much of a threat is that? You mean, unless they shape up, you’re going to send them away from a 1-10 team?). But as a concept, I actually like that Kahn bothers to keep the fans connected and up to date on what he is thinking. It’s a big example of Kahn running a professional organization, where McHale ran a country club and didn’t give a hoot about the public’s perception.
I'm missing something
Where is the threat to blow up the team?
Kahn was quoted
in the Minneapolis paper about saying roster changes would be made if effort did not improve after the Golden State game.
My question – who is responsible for bringing in these players who are putting out this poor effort? If, after 8 games, they need to be sent out, is the same person going to bring in the next wave?
Changes = blowup?
Overstating a bit?
If Kahn were as serious about a roster blowup as you were stating, then yeah, he should take some heat. I read his quotes as doing a typical try to ruffle feathers kind of thing. There’s young uns on the squad and having the boss demand effort seems like the expected thing.
More than half the roster is just placeholder anyway. If Kahn truely thought that Flynn, Sessions, Ellington (and maybe Brewer since he picked up the option) needed to go already, then yeah…criticize away.
Weren't we all
assuming that roster changes were coming before the trade deadline anyways? I don’t think there’s any news in any of this, with the possible minor exception that Kahn is trying to keep fans in the loop more via his letters. Otherwise none of this is anything any of us didn’t already know or assume.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
Don't disagree with some of it but
Lack of NBA experience isn’t an issue here. Obviously, being away from the league on daily basis for 5 years is a strike against him. But in the aggregate, he had as much experience as anyone they could’ve hired besides Randy Pfund (seen by some as Pat Riley’s caddy). And it’s not like he was forced out of the league or left in disgrace; he resigned to be closer to his very successful wife who has business roots in Portland.
As for this whole process thing, he did get the coach he wanted. And it’s not like they’re in a position where they’ve cashed in all of their chips on guys who clearly don’t fit or that the players who might or might not fit in the system (though I’m skeptical when people say a low post guy can’t work in an offense that featured Shaq, who never strayed from one of the blocks his entire career). It’s simply false that this process was completely ass backwards.
The paradigm by which franchises turn themselves around without a bit of luck doesn’t exist. The Blazers would be a fringe playoff team with Foye instead of Roy, the Thunder would be the envy of no one with Yi Jianlian or Joakim Noah instead of Kevin Durant, and the Spurs’ run would be nothing if Chauncey Billups or Tony Battie would’ve donned the black and silver instead of Tim Duncan. The Cavs are a dominant team in spite of Danny Ferry, the Magic have made cap moves that will ruin the second half of Dwight Howard’s career, and the Lakers are fortunate that Kobe nixed a Bulls trade because he thought the Bulls were giving up too much. Even a team staying competitive while cutting salary like Denver has been lucky that perennially-injured big men like Nene and K-Mart have stayed healthy, that Detroit took Darko instead of ‘Melo and gift-wrapped Billups, that they could get guys like the Birdman and Earl Smith III for pennies and have them pan out. Teams have always built themselves up on the mistakes of others, and the key will be to not make those mistakes and take advantage of others’ mistrakes.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Nov 15, 2009 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
I hope that in a few years...
People will say something like: “The Wolves are lucky that Memphis, OKC, and Sacramento all passed on Ricky Rubio, and that Team X gave them Thaddeus Young/Rudy Gay/Kevin Martin on the cheap.”
I think they...
…have a shot in this draft, but yeah, we really have to hope that Rubio works out and that they can get 1 (maybe 2) additional starters in moves.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Great comment psr
Very well put. I know I have a hard time not reading too much into every little game, but I think I’m going to take (for the rest of this season) a minimum 20 game perspective on players and on court production. Reading everything reminds me too much of when I get frustrated that the Twins had a few bad series in a row. I’m going to take the sum of the most recent 20 games to frame my observations for both players and coaches because this team is far, far, far from a complete package.
And let’s get over that too-this team won’t be a complete NBA team this year. I repeat, it will not be a complete, 5 NBA legit starter (or even 3-4 legit starter) team this year. Neither Kahn, or Rambis, will be fired either. To talk Twolves is this year is to accept those conditions, in my opinion. Doesn’t mean that they’re right, but we can’t change that, and I for one don’t want to listen to an entire season of pissing, moaning, and ‘what-ifs’. The truth is we don’t have Roy, we don’t have Jennings, we don’t have Lopez or Mayo. It doesn’t matter at this point. Time will tell if Rubio is our luck. And perhaps Flynn will be our lucky guy, as it took Billups some time to turn into what he became.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
Great comment psr
Very well put. I know I have a hard time not reading too much into every little game, but I think I’m going to take (for the rest of this season) a minimum 20 game perspective on players and on court production. Reading everything reminds me too much of when I get frustrated that the Twins had a few bad series in a row. I’m going to take the sum of the most recent 20 games to frame my observations for both players and coaches because this team is far, far, far from a complete package.
And let’s get over that too-this team won’t be a complete NBA team this year. I repeat, it will not be a complete, 5 NBA legit starter (or even 3-4 legit starter) team this year. Neither Kahn, or Rambis, will be fired either. To talk Twolves is this year is to accept those conditions, in my opinion. Doesn’t mean that they’re right, but we can’t change that, and I for one don’t want to listen to an entire season of pissing, moaning, and ‘what-ifs’. The truth is we don’t have Roy, we don’t have Jennings, we don’t have Lopez or Mayo. It doesn’t matter at this point. Time will tell if Rubio is our luck. And perhaps Flynn will be our lucky guy, as it took Billups some time to turn into what he became.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
While Kahn had the Pacers GM title
Team President Donnie Walsh ran the team. He hired Bird, Thomas as coach, made the FA acquisitions and trades (including the Jermaine O’Niell trade).
It would have been the equivalent of giving Jim Stack credit for being the Twolves GM during Kevin McHale’s VP tenure. Title but no power.
I do believe that his stint as a sportswriter makes him qualified to write letters (little gallows humor – take no offense)
I didn't say anything about what he did in Indiana
My point was that his experience and decision-making level were similar to Tom Penn and Dennis Lindsey, the two “hot” candidates. I’m not claiming he deserves credit for the Pacers’ success, but neither do Lindsey or Penn for their respective teams.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Nov 15, 2009 4:20 PM CST up reply actions
2 biggests mistakes?
It’s a big mistake to ignore the opinoins of those who built one of the worst rosters in the league? Sorry, but I don’t think it wise to follow the advice of a staff that ran the team into the ground.
As far as restructuring, I agree this might not be the best of Kahn’s actions, not because of the timing, but because of who he chose. Or, better, the coaches style.
The triangle is an obscure offense and that’s the problem I have with the Rambis hiring. How would having Rambis in place predraft have helped us? What prospect exactly would have Rambis pushed for to run the triangle. Jennings isn’t a triangle PG. Derozan…he’s not exactly lighting it up? Curry can shoot (or was projected to), but isn’t exactly a top tier defender, or ripping it up right now either.
I think it’s fair to fault Kahn on who he chose, but I don’t really care about the when. Basketball is a fundamentally simple game offensively. There’s the more radical triangle offense, but most of it isn’t that complicated. It’s pace, matchups, etc. I don’t think it’s too much to ask a professional coach to adapt his style to fit the personnel instead of forcing a system that no else can run without a superstar wing.
Paradigm of how franchises are turned around? I can’t think of a team that did all the things you mentioned in that order. Most teams turned around with the acquisition of marquee player(s). Doc Rivers went from hot seat to championship when he got KG team with Pierce.
As far as the comments? Did I miss other comments other than the letter? I missed in there where he threatend to blow up the team. I remember some comment after the GS team about changes, but changes can mean more/less playing time, a minor deal, a signing. I missed the blowup comment.
At this point any coaching hire Kahn made would be getting criticized!
Unless Kahn had brought in a proven coach (impossible last summer), any former assistant or college head coach brought in would have a similar record right now assuming Love still broke his hand. People would be criticizing the inexperience or something else.
As far as Rambis and the the triangle, don’t forget that Rambis’ specialty is Defense and teamwork. I think this is why he focuses on the triangle right now (build teamwork). I am hopeful that when better talent arrives, the triangle will be taught but only about 20% of the offense (when running doesn’t work). The long term MO of this team is going to be Defense setting up the running game.
This makes some sense…although we’re really not doing anything defensively either. But again…no talent.
Reminds me of the Vikings
Childress has been a mediocre coach W/L-wise until this year. Now he’s 8-1 with Favre. All the great coaches in the NFL had outstanding talent to work with. It’s just like Bud Grant said-a team’s success stems from its players, not its coach. Does anyone really believe that Mike Brown can take a team without Lebron to the ECF? Coaches can have a negative effect (see: Wittman, R.), but talent wins games and wins playoff series, not coaches (as a general rule).
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
There is a lesson with Childress though. Sometimes sticking with a plan is more important than being/having the best coach or having the best/perfect plan. You can’t turn over coaches and/or significant pieces of the roster every two years and win. That talent needs to have some consistency in what they are asked to do and who they play with.
Good point
Reminds me a bit of Shiancoe as well. Lot’s of skills, but almost a Corey Brewer type his first season and half here (right place, right time, drops the pass = maddening). Now he’s become very reliable and one of the better TEs in the NFL, not to mention a very valuable component for what the Vikes want to do.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
Shiancoe's play really improved
His game got better immediately after everybody saw his dong on TV. I think it helped his confidence.
Perhaps that’s the solution for Corey? Show his penis to America?
by Princely Frank on Nov 17, 2009 1:29 PM CST up reply actions
Totally agree
With very few exceptions (Jerry Sloan perhaps), coaches can’t get more out of players than they have to give. Although bad coaches can screw up a good thing. That’s why I never turned on Tom Kelly, when he had players they won, simple.
but gosh
I thought nothing made young players do better than having the big boss rattle their cages….
What more was expected
Last year they started 2-9, they traded two rotation players for a future asset, now they are a game worse. Not surprised, the team was better last year, this was THE PLAN.
For different perspective, I would ask this – Is the team (w/ Love sidelined) any better than an expansion team. Been a Wolves fan since the beginning and really think the first team had more talent than this team w/o Love.
I think what I wrote is being misread here...
…I like the direction they are going and I think Kahn is making the right moves (outside of the letter writing and threats after 10 games). My point here is that this is a near-impossible sell to casual sports fans and I think they (and myself) misjudged how this aspect of the team would play out. Casual sports fans don’t want the 2 steps back to take a step forward approach.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
It doesn't help that they have to compete in a hockey state, either
But I agree that the start isn’t helping. Hell, I’m thinking about not buying tickets until Love’s return because of the start. I would say, though, that they can’t worry about the casual fans because those are the same ones who complained about not making it out of the first round. Casual fans can have it whatever way they want, essentially, and the best way to get more diehards is to build a consistent winner.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Nov 15, 2009 4:24 PM CST up reply actions
Casual Fans
I don’t think there needs to be too much concern about casual fans. They probably don’t care and aren’t really reading this blog much. If they do, they’ll learn a thing or two, but worrying about them seems to be a big theme here.
I didn't misread
just was using the record you referenced. I was speaking to those who were expecting 30-35 wins this year.
I support Kahn
After years of hoping for McHale’s exit, I won’t rush to judgment on Kahn just because the team living up to expectations. Seriously, did anyone think that we were going to be good this year, even with a healthy Al and Love? Kahn talked about 16 months and that’s what he should get. Unless you really expected him to take a franchise in the gutter and transform them immediately…we should have hired David Copperfield then?
The reasons for trading marginal starters and role players for prospects and cap space has been covered ad nauseum. We don’t need to go there again. I
The most interesting thing to me is going to be the coaching this year. I’m skeptical of an offense that no one can run without having Jordan or Kobe.
Again...
…I don’t disagree with a lot of this but I’m not who the sale needs to be made to. It isn’t unreasonable to think that a 24 win team could have walked away with the 6th pick, Sessions, Foye, and Miller and been competitive. I like Kahn and what he is doing but I’m not the mark here. There aren’t even any casual fans left to jump ship and the ones who pay a modest amount of attention are going to see some of the things he has done as short term blunders that are right in line with what the team has done in the past. I think some long time season ticket holders may even feel the same way. In fact I know some who do.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Again...
…I don’t disagree with a lot of this but I’m not who the sale needs to be made to. It isn’t unreasonable to think that a 24 win team could have walked away with the 6th pick, Sessions, Foye, and Miller and been competitive. I like Kahn and what he is doing but I’m not the mark here. There aren’t even any casual fans left to jump ship and the ones who pay a modest amount of attention are going to see some of the things he has done as short term blunders that are right in line with what the team has done in the past. I think some long time season ticket holders may even feel the same way. In fact I know some who do.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
These games are absolutely brutal to watch...
and the reason is no Kevin Love and recovering Al Jefferson. Love’s return will mark an immediate turn for the better, and we’ll probably start losing a lot of close games, instead of blowouts. Jefferson’s ongoing recovery will gradually help increase the win total and make games more enjoyable.
Remember, this team wasn’t fun to watch when Jefferson was out last year. They lost a ton of games against teams that were facing the typical late-season issues that usually lead to more lax competition.
Had we kept Foye and Miller, we’d probably be 2-9 or 3-8, tops. The losses would be a little closer, but Rubio’s rights are more important to a team that is facing the high-lottery, regardless.
Exactly.
Our two best players are out with injuries. You could make a good argument that Kahn should have held on to one of those veteran front court players he traded for cap space, but on the other hand Hollins and Pecherov are getting some much-needed experience. The challenge for the coaching staff is, to keep these guys interested in playing hard and learning how to play better, knowing that they are going to still get beat.
Can't say I agree
… with you Andy G on last year’s team, though I do agree that the present lot is tough to take. In my books, last year’s team was usually very competitive with many losses being by six points or less (someone ran a story on this here somewhere). They had a 62% team shooting effort one night on a running offense (post Al injury) and even took the eventual Champions down to the last minute in a late season game. If you check back on the schedule and the standings, there were very few games where the opponents weren’t fighting tooth and nail for a playoff berth. For my money, the games were usually great entertainment, though I didn’t catch a few just-home-from-a-tough-road-trip apparently miserable performances that got a lot of play here.
But, the question remains: where to now?
"some local columnist is already hard at work"
“local columnist!” “HARD AT WORK!”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!
(Not including Britt, of course).
Hey...
…Sid works hard for his money. ;)
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Did Truman Capote once say
that Jack Kerouac’s works were not “writing but typing”? Would not the same apply to Sid?
Jottings
I lost my favorite pen. I think one of the nurses stole it yesterday during my afternoon nap.
You were a daydreamer, a sass-mouth, and, not infrequently, a bit of a gigglepuss. Somehow I doubt twenty years of amphetamines and failure have done anything to improve that.
by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on Nov 16, 2009 8:17 AM CST up reply actions
predicting this year's record with last year's players
I don’t think you can in any way say that you know for sure our team’s record would be nearly the same if we had retained much of our old roster and merely added two or three high-quality rookies. Again, imagine if all of these changes had taken place with McHale as GM and how posters here would be reacting. This team has been incredibly bad. There is only slight prospect for improvement any time soon (I hope I’m wrong) & Kahn has been behind all of it.
Imagining these moves being made with McHale at the helm is pointless, because they never would have happened. He would have kept blundering on with his favorite non starting-caliber tweeners while drafting guys who won NCAA titles in hopes of eventually getting the 8th seed. Ugh. I’ll take the ugliness in the short-term if there’s the chance of something better down the line as opposed to continued mediocrity. To each his own, I suppose.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
Yes but,
Maybe Ty Lawson would be our point guard.
I don’t think he’s a better pro than Flynn. You think if Lawson was the starting point guard with Brewer, Gomes, Hollins, and Jawai out there with him, he would look better than Flynn? You think he would have double-digit points every game? I doubt it.
Lawson is a great guy to put in the drivers’ seat when you’ve already got a nice Mercedes. He’s not a franchise point guard, and if we had traded Flynn and kept Lawson, I would bet solid money that we’d be pissing and moaning about that instead.
Good points.
I didn’t want Lawson then, and I don’t want him now. He’s a great guy to back up Billups, but he’s not the guy who will improve a bad team.
I’d certainly agree with that. Lawson landed in a great situation that was like what he had in college. He gets to rely on a bunch of talent around him and just facilitate. He also has little pressure on him to make an immediate impact.
Lawson's caveat
Lawson gets to play with Carmelo Anthony, behind Chauncey, with Nene and Kmart, etc.
Flynn gets to play with Brewer and Gomes, Jawai and Pecherov, and Damien Wilkins.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
our only consolation is that at least we didn’t select Brandon Jennings in the draft and then trade him to Milwaukee. That somewhat breaks the trend. But Jonny’s Flynn’s inability to do anything remotely similar to what Jennings is doing is due to the way he is being coached. Again, the master plan at work. Enjoy its fruits.
It's been approximately 10 games
Let’s see how these guys are doing at the All-Star break and at the end of the season. Remember that Foye looked great for January, but a hot-streak does not a career make. And we don’t know yet if Jennings is on a hot streak or not.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
If Rambis was to let Flynn run around and do his thing would that really be beneficial in the long run? Yes Jennings is tearing it; but just because he is doesn’t mean Flynn will. I would rather him be forced to learn new stuff now so that later he is multi-dimensional and ultimately a much better player when it matters.
That's all true, but it's hard not to see the difference
in natural abilities in watching these two. Jennings is the superior talent, make not mistake about it. The question is who ultimately becomes the superior floor general and leader for his squad. Jennings’ heroics as a scorer may backfire once the talent around him gets better and he needs to be more of a facilitator, picking his spots to score more judiciously. I give Jennings credit though. Skiles is as old school as they come; Jennings had to have shown his coach that he is a worker and a good listener to be given this kind of PT and freedom. We’ll see if any tension mounts between these two as the season progresses, but so far so good.
by Rascal Flatts on Nov 16, 2009 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
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