Prowling the NBA: Nov 15 - When it rains, it pours
by Oceanary on Nov 15, 2009 10:18 PM CST
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PrintAs the saying goes, when it happens, it happens all at once, and en masse. And perhaps nothing personifies a downpour better than this young 2009-2010 season.
The Timberwolves and their fans are not the only ones stuck out in the rain. Read on to get up to speed on teams around the NBA that might be in even lower spirits than the Wolves, as well as a little point guard debate to sound off on at the end.
Alright, first up on this week's list of teams that have something to cry about:
The New Orleans Hornets have fired head coach Byron Scott, and in the process may have come up with the worst idea ever:
Firing your head coach after just 9 games (the Hornets' record was just 3-6 at the time) might seem a little harsh, but not entirely unexpected. Certainly one would expect a team led by Chris Paul not to have twice as many losses as wins, nor to get listlessly blown out on a nightly basis. After a dismal start to the year, including blowout losses to the Raptors and Suns and even a loss to the Knicks, the Hornets decided Scott had lost the ears of his roster.
But the Hornets' interim plan is nothing short of ludicrously idiotic. The team handed (forced?) head coaching duties to General Manager Jeff Bower, and promptly hired former NBA and college coach Tim Floyd as the top assistant. Yes, that's the same Tim Floyd who thoroughly washed out of previous coaching duties with these Hornets and the Chicago Bulls, then basically picked up a criminal record afterwards as the head coach at USC in a scandal that could have cost OJ Mayo his NBA eligibility.
Brilliant.
The Hornets have lost both games under the new/old coaching regime, and it doesn't figure to get any sunnier for them, since...
Chris Paul is hurt. And in more ways than one:
First, yes, CP3 is physically injured, having sprained his ankle during the Hornets' first game post-Scott, an 86-78 loss to the Portland Trailblazers (and a score that doesn't reflect how badly the Hornets really got beat). Paul will be out two weeks, which just adds insult to injury for New Orleans.
But Paul is also hurt over the coaching change, which brings to light the rift between him and his team, and could possibly be an omen about Paul's future in New Orleans (or perhaps more accurately, away from New Orleans). The relationship between Paul and the team has already been smarting after the Hornets dealt Tyson Chandler and Rasual Butler, two of Paul's favorite teammates, and now it appears CP3 and David West are at odds over Scott's firing....West was nothing short of ecstatic when asked about Scott's termination, but Paul has been icy about it at best.
"Obviously change needed to occur. I'm not sure that's what should have happened," Paul said. "I'm not sure it was all coach's fault. You can [only] play with the cards you're dealt. It's a tough situation. The team went a different direction."
"Coach was more than a coach to me. He was a mentor, someone who has made me the player I am today."
"I've been with this team for five years now and have been nothing but humble and all about the team. I wish I would have known, you know, before everyone else knew because it was a shock to me. You don't have to have my approval.... Just let me know."
Hornets fans expressed the same depressed outlook we Wolves fans have. They were expecting the team to power back to the level it was at two years ago, when the team reached the Western Conference Finals. Now everything is falling apart. They remember Floyd's subpar performance his first time coaching the Hornets (way back when the team still had Jamal Mashburn and PJ Brown), and are acutely aware of his problems at USC.
One said, "I felt Bower/Shinn should've given Scott the benefit of the doubt. The Hornets have
5 new guys (including 2 rookies) that they are trying to work into the rotation and it was obvious they were trying to build some chemistry. And it wasn't like their 6 losses came against bad teams, they just lost to squads better than them. So 16-19? A just dismissal, 6-9? Please. If they had any confidence in those players 1-13 they would've pull through."
Another simply said, "Tim Floyd? Really? Lmfao wow I am speechless."
A team firing its head coach and replacing him with the GM should sound familiar, because it is. McHale did it not once, but twice, during his tenure with the Wolves, which is something the national media hasn't forgotten. The question now popping up everywhere is...
Is Chris Paul this generation's Kevin Garnett?
http://www.nba.com/media/pow_300_080324.jpg
The similarities are eerily striking. Both are/were phenom talents on rosters that offer(ed) them no support. Both made the Western Conference Finals, only to fall well short of expectations the next season. Both have had their head coaches fired and replaced by the guys who built the bad rosters in the first place.
Paul has been more explicit than KG was when it comes to leveling blame for his team's shortcomings. Comments like "I'm not sure it was all coach's fault." and "You can only play with the cards you're dealt", are strong indications that Paul felt the team needed roster changes, not coaching changes, and who can blame him?
The Hornets have, to put it simply, nothing on the wings. Zero. Zip. Nada. Peja Stojakovic, whom Hornets fans have affectionately dubbed "Overpayed-a Stojako-brick" is averaging just 9.5ppg on dismal 38% shooting. Mo Peterson is even worse....6.5ppg on 34% shooting. The Hornets started off the year with Julian Wright in the starting 5, only to abandon it 7 games later after he chipped in just 3.5ppg. Scott was so desperate for shooting, former Timberwolf Bobby Brown was getting over 20 minutes a night until Scott was fired.
This would seem rather like a certain Kevin McHale, who thought players such as Wally Szczerbiak, Troy Hudson, and Rasho Nestarovic were enough to support Garnett in a title run. About the most help KG ever got outside that one year of Sam and Spree was Joe Smith, but who wants to get into that again, right?
At any rate, it appears the Hornets have already given up on this year, because...
The Hornets are reportedly discussing a trade that would send Emeka Okafor to the Kings for Kenny Thomas:
Kenny Thomas: The Kings' resident Mark Blount. It's a clear, 100%, get-us-under-the-cap move by New Orleans that rivals the talent discrepancy between Pau Gasol and Kwame Brown.
One would think every team lacking cap space to play this summer would be trying to get in on this. It's basically talent acquisition for free, and it's probably fair to say every player on the Hornets' roster except Paul is on the trading block.
Should the Wolves be in this one? Okafor would tie up a lot of the hard earned cap space Kahn has stocked up for the summer, but he also would instantly shore up the frontcourt and add some much needed defense to it as well. For Wolves fans who don't think the team will ever lure a blue chip free agent to the team, this is exactly the kind of cap deal the team should look into, right?
So the first four stories in this update are all about the Hornets collapsing. When it rains, it pours.
But now, moving on...
New developments in the Allen Iverson saga, including that Iverson is considering retirement:
Which would follow suit from what was reported last week: Iverson isn't going back to Memphis, and no one else wants him.
The rather shocking story that broke is that no one from the Grizzlies, GM Chris Wallace and coach Lionel Hollins, ever discussed Iverson's role with the team. Ever.
"That is, in a word, amazing," said one NBA executive told ESPN writer Chad Ford. "The guy has a documented history of resisting coming off the bench. The Grizzlies had a young starting backcourt of Mike Conley and O.J. Mayo. No one thought to explore it?"
Iverson himself confirmed this, saying, "I think that's probably the worst part of all this. That while all this is going on, we [Iverson and Lionel Hollins] have never talked to each other. That's probably why it's at this point right now. We've just never had a conversation, so it's probably going to always be hard for me and him to see eye-to-eye, because we've never even talked to each other."
Just another display of the mass incompetence harbored in the Grizzlies' front office.
As is this...
With Iverson gone, the Grizzlies have signed infamous malcontent Jamaal Tinsley:
The same Jamaal Tinsley the Pacers hated so much, they barred him from everything associated with the team last year. Tinsley didn't attend on practice, one meeting, one workout, one PR event, and didn't play in a single game with Indiana last year. Nor did he garner any interest from any other team in the league, despite Bird's attempts to fairly give him away.
Yet the Grizzlies sign him, and sound happy about it. Go figure.
It's enough to wonder if perhaps the Wolves really can steal Rudy Gay from them at the trade deadline...
Golden State is still in turmoil as well. And it's gotten worse:
Stephen Jackson played just 18 minutes in Golden State's loss to Indiana, after coach Don Nelson pulled him off the floor, claiming he was injured.
"He's got a sore back or hip or something," Nelson said. "I didn't think he was moving very well. I didn't think he moved very well at the shootaround. I didn't expect that he'd give me very much, but he gave me what he had."
But when asked, Jackson said he was fine. "Do I look hurt? I'm fine. My back is not sore at all."
This was followed by public complaints about playing time from both Anthony Randolph and Stephen Curry, both who play far, far less than they should, as well as a heated argument between Nelson and point guard Monta Ellis over who is to blame for the Warriors' early season struggles.
LeBron James publically declared he won't field any more questions about free agency the rest of the year:
James apparently wasn't pleased with the outburst over his comments during the Cavaliers' sole visit to Madison Square Garden a couple of weeks ago, which was followed by a slew of questions about possibly joining Dwyane Wade in Miami after the Cavs played the Magic.
"This free agent talk is getting old. It's getting old and I think I'm going to stop. Tonight will be the last time I answer any more free agent questions until the offseason," James said.
"I think I owe it to myself, and I owe it to my teammates. It's just getting old. I'm focusing on this season, and this is going to be a really good season for us. I don't want anymore distractions for my teammates, for my organization, for my family. This will be the last time I answer a free agent question for the rest of the year."
It's a smart move (bets are off on whether it will really work...) The Cavaliers have enough to deal with this year without James' pending free agency hanging over their heads. The team is still trying to adjust to the acquisition of Shaq, as well as prove they aren't irreparably damaged by their shocking loss to the Magic in last year's Eastern Conference Finals.
As a side note, LeBron has also said he will switch his jersey number from 23 to 6 next year, out of respect for Michael Jordan.
Last week I featured Chris Duhon and Mareese Speights. This week they make the update again:
For very sad, sad reasons.
Mareese Speights is injured. He has a torn knee ligament that will keep him out 6-8 weeks...a costly setback for both him and the Sixers. Philadelphia was contemplating moving him into the starting lineup and either moving Brand to center or the bench. Now the team is stuck with what they had, minus their best big man off the bench (and possibly their best big man period)
Chris Duhon, meanwhile has set a remarkable record of futility this past week, hitting just 3 shots in his last 5 games combined.
0-6 against Cleavland
0-4 against Milwaukee
2-7 against Utah
0-6 against Atlanta
1-7 against Golden State
All losses for the Knicks, of course. The cold streak has dropped Duhon's shooting for the year to a disastrous 22%. Keep that in mind next time Corey Brewer clanks a jumper.
Abdul-Jabbar being treated for leukemia:
Not much to report on beyond that. We wish Kareem the best...and perhaps request his presence on our coaching staff.
Now for some interesting news on a few NBA prospects...
Evan Turner is off to a fantastic start:
The Ohio State swingman is averaging 19 points, 17 rebounds, 7 assists and 2 steals so far this year. He's a jack-of-all-trades, and a player who should most definitely be on the Timberwolves' draft radar. Something of a Scottie Pippen clone...sounds like a perfect fit for the triangle, yes?
Tyler Smith is not doing well in Israel:
For those of you not familiar with him, Tyler Smith is the next step beyond Brandon Jennings. Not only is he skipping college to play overseas, he's skipping his senior year of high school, having signed a two year deal with an Israeli pro basketball team in Haifa.
And it's not going well. The New York Times sent a reporter to catch up on the situation. He reported:
"His coach calls him lazy and out of shape. The team captain says he is soft. His teammates say he needs to learn to shut up and show up on time. He has no friends on the team. In extensive interviews with Tyler, his teammates, coaches, his father and advisers, the consensus is that he is so naïve and immature that he has no idea how naïve and immature he is."
"Tyler has played little, has been fined for team violations, has fought with the coach and teammates ... all in a couple months."
Jennings too had problems with his team, Lomattica Roma, but nothing on this scale. So far Tyler has proven what most of us who have been following him expected: too young, too soon. Jennings wasn't by any means an adult when he left for Rome, but he was at least a high school graduate.
Now for a more positive draft prospect story....
Latavious Williams has jumped from high school to the DLeague:
It's the latest in prep prospects' experiments to bypass the NBA's current mandatory year rule that requires a player to be one year removed from high school before he is draft eligible.
Williams originally committed to play for the Memhpis Tigers, but showed strong interest in playing overseas. He officially withdrew from Memphis when then-coach John Callipari left the school to become head coach of the Kentucky Wildcats.
It's not clear what caused Williams to abandon overseas play and stay in the States, but the development is certainly positive for many reasons. There's no culture shock or overblown media hype....good for the players. There's no one-and-done cycle to create an imbalanced dependency on overly aggressive recruiting....good for colleges (even Tubby Smith laments how bad it's gotten. College coaches are being forced to contact kids just 14 or 15 years old to beat the competition) And the DLeague system is set up expressly to teach players NBA basketball...ultimately good for the NBA.
Williams will play this season with the Tulsa 66ers (who also, by the way, have Wolf camp invite Mustafa Shakur on their roster). He's obviously ineligible for NBA callup, but expect the media to start talking about him as the season wears on and the NBA draft starts to become relevant for non-contending teams. Should he be successful, this could make the Jennings experiment irrelevant, as high school prospects would certainly prefer to stay in the States to get their mandatory year out of the way.
And of course, speaking of Jennings...
Brandon Jennings lit up...and I mean lit up....the Golden State Warriors last night:
55 points, 29 of them coming in the 3rd quarter alone. The single most defining example of a rookie taking over a game in recent memory.
Last week I reported that the Bucks had the best defense in the NBA. That's no longer statistically true, but when the two high-scoring affairs that bumped up the Bucks' OPPG average were wins over the Nuggets and Warriors...who cares?
Jennings was a one man show against Golden State, hitting from everywhere (7-8 from three) at anytime he wanted. The 55 points tied him for 4th on the single game rookie scoring record with Elgin Baylor, and left him just 3 points short of the all time rookie record of 58 set by Wilt Chaimberlain.
Which, of course, begs the question...
What's with Flynn?
Because the Wolves got blown out by those same Warriors and Flynn most definitely did not score at will in that game. 20 points and 6 turnovers. In the comparison of rookie point guards, Flynn definitely trails Jennings and Ty Lawson, and it could be argued he trails Steph Curry and Eric Maynor as well, who's been stellar for the Jazz during the last two games, filling in for the absent Deron Williams.
Jennings has the Bucks atop the Central Division and Ty Lawson has been nothing short of spectacular so far with the Nuggets (check out his sick dunk over DJ Mbenga in Denver's blowout win over the Lakers)
Meanwhile, Flynn has scored efficiently, but sparingly, in limited minutes, and has a very bad negative assist-to-turnover ratio. The Wolves has struggled to generate any sort of offense, and so far Flynn has facilitated even less than Randy Foye.
I think we’re at the point now of questioning why there’s such a disparity between Flynn and Jennings (and between Flynn and Ty Lawson). Is it the triangle? Lack of talent on the roster? Is Jonny just not as good as advertised?
What do you guys think?
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Terrific update
Really well done, kudos.
The Bucks still have the best Drtg in the league, which is hard to understand. I get their games, and I can’t really figure it out. They don’t have a ton of shot-blocking, interior presence. They just do a good job of challenging shots. Still, it’s 7 games; some of that is a reflection of small sample size.
Speaking of which, Jennings looks like a wonderful player—quick, under control, good vision, tough. But he isn’t going to shoot 50% from the field, and 56% from 3 for the season. (Of course, I’m expecting Flynn’s shooting percentage to go down too). Jennings can and does get in the lane and to the basket effectively, but he’s made a ton of jump shots so far. That won’t last forever.
As for Chris Paul—a little early to call him KG, no? He’s 24. Lots of people are salivating over him perhaps being traded, but if I’m NO, I don’t even think about it. I know my salary situation is bad for the next 2 years, but I try once more to build a winner with Paul. How often do you get a player of that caliber? Wolves fans know the answer to that.
Which raises a question: how often is a point guard the best player on a team that wins the championship? It’s been a while—Isiah Thomas with the Pistons, I guess. You could make a Billups argument, but that team was unusually balanced; it isn’t clear who their best player was. I don’t think that really means anything—I think it just means that Michael Jordan, Shaq, and Kobe came along, (and Duncan), and they were the best players and have thus dominated the championships since then.
Wow. Iverson and the Grizzlies didn’t even have a honeymoon at all, did they? It’s like there was an annulment during the wedding reception.
As for Flynn…he looks like a rookie with talent, to me. He clearly does some things well, but there are going to be turnovers and mistakes. I would feel better about the “system,” issues if I thought any of the players other than Flynn (and maybe AL) had any real chance to be significant members of the next good Wolves team. Why put the ball in the hands of wing players who simply aren’t good enough and won’t be around anyway? I get that Rambis wants to instill a particular way of playing, but I’m not sure it helps with the roster they have.
I didn’t think Flynn was the 6th best guy, but it’s clear that he has some ability. Not clear yet what the pecking order of this draft class is going to be, but he could wind up the 2nd best point guard in the group. Or not. I don’t think he’s a franchise altering talent.
by Eric in Madison on Nov 16, 2009 8:47 AM CST reply actions
If the Bucks' defense continues, I have to take off my hat to Skiles
Count me among those who said Jennings was a questionable fit with Skiles, too. Thus far he’s had quite the successful early season.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
Minor correction
Jeremy Tyler is the name of the high school-aged player over in Israel, not Tyler Smith.
Wow
Charlotte saves a few dollars this year, it looks like, but adds more salary for next year. They are an absolutely horrific offensive team, so maybe Jackson will help on that end.
Go Bobcats! Give the Wolves your draft pick!
by Eric in Madison on Nov 16, 2009 10:32 AM CST up reply actions
Top 12 for this year’s pick, top 10 next year I believe.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
Probably won't be 2010 then...
which is fine. Charlotte is probably going to struggle, even with S-Jack and will be in the bottom 12.
I hope we get this pick in the same draft that we lose ours to the Clippers.
I think they'll get it
Larry Brown is a guy who can handle difficult players, and even if the ‘Cats aren’t playoff-bound, they were close enough last year that swapping Bell for Jackson (an upgrade) and Okafor for Chandler (could go either way) while adding Gerald Henderson (decent role player) might keep them in that hunt. Either way, though, it should be a valuable chip.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Nov 16, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
Run Along With Cap'n Jack.
Finally something to cheer for, and it’s Captain Jack at that. I nominate this song as the official song of the “Bobcats Pick Watch,” now one of the most interesting story lines to the Wolves this year:
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
Ya, it figures something would happen the day the update gets posted
Ah well, something for next week’s update.
As an Iowa State fan, I feel Tim Floyd isn’t getting a fair shake here. He had absolutely, positively no chance in Chicago. They could’ve had their choice of coaches, living or dead, and they still would’ve sucked. And the Hornets got worse immediately after letting him go last time he was there. And I don’t think what got him in trouble at USC is going to be an issue.
As a fantasy owner of Chris Duhon, please stop mentioning him in your column. It’s depressing.
Kinda agree
Floyd can coach on the college level, particularly defense, and OJ Mayo’s issues had something to do with him and Bill Duffy as well as Floyd.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Nov 16, 2009 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
Are you in a 32 team league or something
Because otherwise, I can think of a number of points better than Duhon who should be available.
Happy for the Bucks
I have a sentimental place in my heart for the Bucks. First, they are a fellow Midwest team that has been slogging it out in obscurity for years. Second, they do have a history with some good teams and wonderful players in the 70s and 80s. It’s really unfortunate how they’ve fallen off the radar for so long. Third, I love Bogut. He is such a steady force in the middle to compliment the dynamism of Jennings. Congrats to the Bucks for a solid start to the year!
Yeah, it's sweet to see the Bucks do well
The Cassell, Allen, Robinson team made for one of the greatest video game teams of 2001.
Flynn
It’s clear that Jennings has free reign with the Bucks, so I’m not as concerned that Wolves picked the wrong guy in that respect. What Rambis is doing is conceding that Flynn as currently constructed is not good enough to be unstoppable by just doing what he currently does, and he’s trying to accentuate his current strengths by working on his weaknesses. Both Jennings and Flynn are good enough to be stopped with good strategy, but Milwaukee is letting it ride for now while the Wolves are trying to work on Flynn so he doesn’t develop bad habits.
Lawson? The bigger question in that has to be whether the #6 pick could’ve received fair value to make it worth the Wolves’ while to trade that one and keep #18. It seems like they could’ve done better than Charlotte’s pick, but I’m not so sure about that. Either way, Flynn is 2 years younger than Lawson, and Lawson is the backup in Denver. The only way a fair comparison could be made is if Billups was hurt and he became a temp starter.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Nov 16, 2009 12:43 PM CST reply actions
“Jennings and Flynn aren’t good enough that they can’t be stopped with good strategy”
Sorry, error on my part
by pagingstanleyroberts on Nov 16, 2009 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
Completely agree
In the future i see Flynn as being the better point guard. I would advise most people to not be so focused on his assists. That is somehting he will be able to pick that up once his leash gets a litlle bit more loose. And the best thing about Flynn is how he has handeled it. I don’t think Jennings would have acted with as much composure and maturity as Flynn is about not getting to run the offense the way he wants to run it. But the only thing that concerns me about flynn is the amount of turnovers he is getting, he needs to cut that down some or he will be riding pine for the majority of the next few games.
What's most concerning about his TO's
is the ratio to assists and possessions. He is just awful in this regard. It’s one thing to pile up turnovers when you’re also piling up points and assists; it’s another thing when you’re doing it without all of the goodness that is supposed to come along with being a dynamic playmaker.
by Rascal Flatts on Nov 16, 2009 7:06 PM CST up reply actions
Again
Don’t cancentrate on the amount of assists, because while playing the triangle offense, the point gaurds main job is to bring the ball up court and get it to the wings. So in this regard, he would be getting low assists numbers. But his turnovers are very alarming, a big part about being a great point guard in this leaue is taking care of the ball, and thus far Flynn hasn’t shown the ability to do that, of course some of those turnovers come from having inexperienced teammates, with average to lower level talent, but still he needs to take care of the ball
For all that has been said about Flynn's assists and turnovers
His advanced stats show that he is only 20.1% to Sessions’ 21.8% assist% and 22% to 19.3% on turnovers. And his usage rate is also 25.4 to 17%, meaning he is finishing a lot more plays by shooting while Sessions is passing. I don’t know about anyone else, but I would much rather have Flynn finishing the plays at a 55.1 TS% than anyone else on our team (the only two above him right now are Hollins and Pecherov).
Speaking of stats though, Big Al has always been extremely underrated on his turnovers. With a usage rate of 25.2%, he is only turning the ball over 7.7% of the time, leading our entire team. That’s incredible. And plus, he has an assist rate of 14.6 this year. If only he could put it together on defense and get his legs back under him, he would be special.
Handy example of the usefulness of percentage stats
Flynn’s % number reflects the common-sensical observation we all know is true: It’s danged hard to get an assist on a team with nobody else who can put it in the bucket. (The AST% number is based on the percentage of made field goals, while the player was on the floor, that he recorded an assist on.)
Excellent and unexpected points ’bout Jefferson. We really are down our two best/most established players right now, in him and Love.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
Exactly
I have actually commented on a few game threads multiple times per game where Flynn should get chalked up for another assist when a teammate misses a moderate to easy difficulty layup (see Hollins, Ryan and Brewer, Corey) or a wide open jumper (see Timberwolves, Minnesota).
That is the key to assists – it’s a two man game. Jonny hasn’t been Steve Nash out there, but he’s made some solid passes when the opportunity is there, but there’s not much you can do when Hollins gets stripped by a 6’2 guard on a dunk attempt you spoon fed him or the guy you happen to be kicking out to for a wide open 3 is Corey Brewer.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
Al’s passing #‘s are really interesting this year. He’s always been a remarkably low TO player for a guy with such a high usage rate, probably due to the fact that he can always get off a shot (albeit not always a good shot). I’d imagine it goes hand in hand with his somewhat middling effficiency. Still, if he can keep dishing assists at a solid rate (for a non-transcendant passer, at least) that would be a huge improvement for him. Now we just need to get him to actually try on defense.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
Yeah
But the good news is that he seems to be buying in to Rambis’ strategy. And his defensive win share even seems to be up (granted it is a small sample size, and unless mine eyes deceive me, he is still terrible) for how many wins the team actually has so far. Hopefully this means that he is improving beyond what looks may tell.
Keep in mind
Ty Lawson is playing on a pretty good Denver team, with plenty of talent around him.
Jonny doesn’t exactly have that luxury here
From the only TRUE North division
by thewild_viking_twins on Nov 16, 2009 7:43 PM CST reply actions
Billups
Not only is Lawson on a good team but if you read that big write up on ESPN last year about Billups you can see that he has a great mentor. Billups is a player that worked hard to get where he is, he wasn’t a natural. That is a lot of knowledge that can be passed down, something we don’t have the luxury of doing. Sessions in year two and Hart isn’t exactly an All Star.
From what I've seen, I do think it's the triangle
Because we saw Flynn do the things Jennings is doing in summer league, before Rambis was hired and when he WAS allowed to play his game.
Maybe a better question is, is teaching Flynn the triangle worth it? The talk that we would have drafted different if Rambis had been hired by draft night really isn’t true….there was nothing left but point guards, so it if hadn’t been Flynn, it would have been Curry or Lawson or Jrue Holiday.
But how much does Flynn really get out of the triangle? How does his game benefit? I’m not saying it doesn’t, but at some point you have to question if this is really necessary.
I think they will only run the triangle
at certain times and are using it as a teaching tool to show players how to make decisions. Once you teach a player how to play, then you let them do what will be effective. Just a guess though (I hope).
by TheEvilProfessor on Nov 17, 2009 8:15 AM CST up reply actions
That’s what Rambis has said, which makes sense. I can endure the uglyness in the short term if something good will come of it.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
If he tries to run the triangle
after we get good players and as a result he doesn’t get the most out of his players, then I will be upset.
by TheEvilProfessor on Nov 17, 2009 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
Evan Turner would look great in the triangle.
He’s perfect for it.
by Princely Frank on Nov 17, 2009 7:37 PM CST up reply actions
Don't worry about the triple post
Jerry Z. talked about it this morning in his article for the Strib. Jordan averaged 30 ppg in the triangle. Pippen averaged something like 15-20 ppg. The triangle made Luc Longley look like a good player. Think about how deadly Steve Kerr, Toni Kukoc, and all those other bit players looked in it.
I think the effect on the triangle is not detrimental in anyway to good players. Jordan’s PER for the three seasons immediately preceding Jackson’s arrival as HC and succeeding it are basically identical:
Group A: 29.8, 31.7, 31.1
Group B: 31.2, 31.6, 27.7
However, after Jackson’s arrival in LA Kobe’s PER jumped above 23 where it has stayed since. (Although part of that is due to Kobe coming into his own after four seasons).
The point I’m trying to make is that the triangle isn’t going to ‘diminish’ or hurt good players.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Nov 18, 2009 11:32 AM CST up reply actions
I think this is absolutely right.
Good players will excel with most reasonable structures in place, but bit players will only excel with reasonable structures in place. So the barometer of triangle success is not Flynn, but the bit players beneath him. Keep in mind that we have such players now, but they are being asked to do more than they would ever be expected to do on a big time squad.
I've got an idea.
Let’s use that cap space to build a time machine, go back and draft Jennings instead of Flynn.
There’s probably some other cool stuff you could with a time machine too, but I can’t really think of anything off the top of my head.
by Princely Frank on Nov 16, 2009 10:44 PM CST reply actions
Love Jonny Flynn but...
though its early, reigns are on him, triangle, etc, he definitely seems suited for a great high energy back up scorer type PG getting 20+ minutes per game that Kahn described after the draft.
Keep Rubio and bring him in next year in the off chance we land LeBron or DWade this summer or following year if we get a second tier FA wing or via draft than performs next year.
I never would’ve gone Jennings over Flynn, but real loser is DaJoka and Knicks fans for not taking Jennings.
by PoohRichardson on Nov 16, 2009 10:51 PM CST reply actions
Glad someone else see that too
talk about needing a point to make the SSOL offense go.
by TheEvilProfessor on Nov 17, 2009 8:17 AM CST up reply actions
Thorpe agrees
Just said the same thing in his chat, suggesting he does not look like a playoff caliber starter.
I’m not sure I’d put that limit on him, but the more I see this season play out, the more I’m convinced that the sole purpose of the 2009 draft was to ensure that every team except the Clippers, Kings and Knicks were set at PG for the next decade. Which is fine, except that when you have the number 5 and 6 picks you expect to end up with better product than the 20th, 21st, and 25th picks. The unproven guys with high upside are not looking like they wil bust (certainly not Jennings, and when Holiday starts getting more than 3 min a game he’ll be fine). The guys with great college stats but supposedly limited upside have looked like starting material (Lawson, Collison recently since taking over for CP3, even Maynor, whom I doubted). Even Curry, who wasn’t supposed to be a PG, looks very good at the point, and Beaubois could be a stud (long time starter claims Thorpe). I think Flynn will be solid, and could end up near the top of this group, but his selection was never a swing for the fences. I still think Rubio will be a star, pure and simple. I just hope he plays in MN.
I just wish that we had known we would be getting Sessions, and instead drafted a riskier, high potential guy. I understand there was no way they’d draft Jennings after his ridiculous showing in his workout for the team. They could have gone for Holiday for his long term potential and his immediate defensive impact. I’d definitely let Sessions run the team and Holiday develop slowly. However, I’ll leave that kind of speculation to someone with special powers beyond my own. I’m speaking, of course, about Captain Hindsight.
I'd have liked to see Holiday for sure
If his defense is as good as its touted to be, he woulda been great on this team. We absolutely need defensive guards to make our bigs look better defensively.
worth noting
that Jennings had his season of learning a crazy style of basketball was last season in Italy, so at least in that sense he’s a bit ahead of Flynn. Jennings’ future didn’t look so good, from a purely statistical perspective.
Good point
Jennings’ first season in “pro” ball did not get rave reviews.
by lookatthosetwins on Nov 17, 2009 10:31 PM CST up reply actions
And he struggled
With a lot of same things Flynn is struggling with.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Nov 18, 2009 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
Brandon Jennings
Well, we failed to draft him. I don’t care what the situation was, this was a huge blunder.
Ten games into a season...
… and this is crystal clear, eh? I’d love to see the turnover on a roster you assemble.
I would like to point out that when the Bucks played the Wolves, Jennings looked VERY human. I would like to think that Flynn had a little to do with that. Did not see the game in person, but looking @ popcorn machine, I see that Flynn was out there almost all of the time Jennings was. Just sayin’.
Another great article. While none of the info was new to me, it was nice to see other viewpoints.
Timberwolves - NBA champs 2013!
(used with permission - Wolf in MO)
I would also like to say that we are only 10 games in and we knew it was going to be rough starting out. Let’s keep our eyes on the big picture.
Timberwolves - NBA champs 2013!
(used with permission - Wolf in MO)
by frankenhoops on Nov 18, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
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