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Prowling the NBA: Nov 27 - What could have been...

Let's talk regrets. Everyone has some, no matter what they might claim. Especially people who play for or run professional basketball teams.

Nothing quite like having your mistakes make the front page around the world, huh?

It's a 24/7, CNN news cycle these days. NBA players, General Managers, Presidents, owners, they all come under constant scrutiny. Make one mistake, and within 24 hours everyone knows about it. Miss one opportunity, and everyone will blog about how the team is doomed for all eternity. Make one misquote to the press, and you're labeled a team cancer. Even taking a long view...well, it's a world of instant gratification, isn't it? Who wants to wait to be good?

This week's updates are heavy on unfulfilled potential and what-ifs. I've got a couple things that are sure to get people talking this week, including the continuing Allen Iverson saga, more debate on Flynn versus Jennings, and something I think no one ever expected to hear: Kevin McHale talking about what he regretted most about running the Timberwolves. Be sure to read to the end to get that.

But, of course, we start at the beginning...

Star-divide

Allen Iverson says he is retired. Maybe:

Iverson called up good buddy, former ESPN reporter and Philadelphia Inquirer blogger Stephen A Smith to report he is planning on retirement, which Smith immediately put up on Twitter.

Iverson-allen-091007_medium

But Iverson's "retirement" statement sounded more like a resume than a goodbye, including lines like "there's a lot left in my tank" and "I can still compete at the highest level". I would guess AI was completely serious about calling it quits, and threw things like that in to perhaps show he felt he was being forced into retirment than accepting it's his time. Or perhaps Iverson simply wished to save face while he bides his time for an offer he likes. It's a lot more respectable for a guy to say he's out of the game and have a team come looking for him than to sit in free agency and appear to draw no interest.

So what could have spurred such an abrupt farewell from Iverson? Well...

The Knicks decided not to make an offer to Iverson:

I reported last week that an offer was all but guaranteed, and at the time it appeared it was. Several sources said Iverson was scheduled to meet with the Knicks, and was willing to play for less than $500,000. ESPN reporter Marc Stein wrote that one souce close to Iverson said it was a "done deal", and that AI was shocked when the Knicks changed their mind.

That change of heart actually happened as I was writing last week's update. Thursday night, Knicks head coach Mike D'Antoni and President Donnie Walsh reportedly had a last minute, late night session to discuss Iverson. When asked, Walsh said, "You're 1-9 and you're thinking, 'We've got to get some help in here.' But when we rethought it and I talked to Mike and he talked to me, we feel that could hurt our development of the future, and so we want to go the way we're going."

D'Antoni simply said, "We just didn't think we wanted to have that dominant force on the team right now."

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The explanation is, to be blunt, stupid. The summary is the Knicks are "thinking about the future", to which the obligatory response is "what future?" New York has banked everything, figuratively and literally, on free agency this coming summer. Iverson wouldn't take up cap space because he wouldn't be there next year. Iverson wouldn't be a locker room headache because he wouldn't be coming off the bench. Even the bad influence argument holds no weight...the only players the Knicks have now that figure to be on the roster by next year are Gallinari and maybe Wilson Chandler. And well...aren't Al Harrington, Larry Hughes, and Nate Robinson already selfish chuckers with bad attitudes?

What could have motivated the Knicks to forego replacing train wreck Chris Duhon with the Answer?

Eddy Curry is kind of sort of playing agin:

And by kind of sort of, I mean he's played an average of 11 minutes in 4 games this year. Which is still more games than he played last year.

So naturally you must be thinking "why would Eddy Curry stop New York for signing Iverson?" Well...

The Knicks want to trade Curry to Houston for Tracy McGrady:

And to do that, they need him to play.

The logic here is that clearing Curry off the books frees up enough cap space for the Knicks to go back to their original plan: sign two max free agents this summer. This would explain why the Knicks have been so insistent that Curry get back on the floor, despite him being badly mismatched with the run-and-gun system, as well as having been practically banned from the team last year.

Would the Rockets do it? Maybe...

Tracy McGrady and the Houston Rockets are at odds about his return. Again:

McGrady wanted to be back by now. The Rockets...well, there's an agenda here that goes way beyond TMac's health.

Yahoo Sports reported that McGrady got into a shouting match with Rockets GM Darell Morey and head coach Rick Adelman, both of which have since denied it happened. But make no mistake, relationships are tense here. "We have a difference of opinion," coach Rick Adelman said. "He wants to play. He's not ready to play. It's as simple as that." McGrady disagrees, saying, "Right now, I could play," and that he expects to be activated "very soon".

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So what's going on here? Let's call it a conflict of interests.

McGrady is in his contract year, coming off a major injury in what has been a long string of injuries. He wants to be on the floor to prove his health and worth and earn a new deal.

But the Rockets have clearly moved on from him. They're invested in Aaron Brooks and Trevor Ariza now, and are probably tired of McGrady stepping in and out of the lineup on a nearly nightly basis, messing up chemistry.

There's a bad divorce on the horizon here, and McGrady figures to take the worst of it. He finally participated in a full practice last week, which would seem to indicate he will indeed be activated soon, but who knows what his role will be, or if he'll even have one.

Anyways, let's get back to Iverson.

The Sixers are planning to make Iverson an offer:


Stephen A Smith just Tweeted it this morning, saying Sixers head coach Eddie Jordan is scheduled to fly to Iverson's Atlanta home this Tuesday to talk to the guard, who is also scheduled to meet with his former Gerogetown coach, John Thompson the same day.

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Could we be seeing this again? The Sixers badly need help at point guard since Louis Williams has a broken jaw that will keep him out two months (mid update update...only way to keep the flow). That leaves the team with just rookie Jrue Holiday to man the point. Philadelphia is where it all began for AI. There's a lot to be said about stars aligning and things coming full circle.

Also mulling an offer to Iverson are the Boston Celtics:

Which is more a statement about the Celtics than AI. This comes on the heels of the rumored deal they had to acquire Andris Nocioni, and both that and this smack of desperation.

The Celtics initially tried to acquire Iverson in 2006, when he was traded to Denver, and felt they had had a reasonable chance.

But this recent revelation is more about the state Boston feels its in.

The Celtics have problems:

Lots of them. Their record is very deceptive...their four losses were bad losses, and 3 of their wins were very close contests to the Wolves, Nets and Knicks. New York actually took them to overtime at Madison Square, and it took a last second, desperation jumper from Garnett for the Celtics to escape.

Start with Rasheed Wallace's ineptness this year. On paper, Sheed is a godsend for the Celtics. He's skilled, can stretch the floor, can play exceptional defense, and the Celtics have the kind of roster that can command his respect and keep him motivated. In reality though, Wallace is shooting just 37%....29% from deep....while hoisting an incredible 64% of his shots from three. 94 of his 146 attempts this year have been from distance. Add in that he's grabbing just 4 rebounds a game and not even tallying a full block, and suddenly Boston's big offseason acquisition looks a lot less intimidating.

Also a major major concern for the Celtics is Kevin Garnett's health, or lack thereof.

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His knee is clearly not 100% and his defense, both individual and team, is suffering because of it. During the New York game, the Knicks repeatedly iso'd Al Harrington on Garnett, who got by KG every time like he was Chris Paul going by Jerome James. It's also affecting Garnett's lift...his shooting has been a rollarcoaster of percentages, and he's averaging the lowest rebounding numbers since his rookie year.

Kirk Hinrich noted Garnett's low mobility and vertical after an early season game, saying, "KG's knee just doesn't look healthy."

So the Celtics and Sixers are talking Iverson. So are the anaylsts, and they all agree...

Iverson is not really retiring:

Charles Barkley was emphatic on that point, so much so that he nearly tipped his chair over when he said it. Both he and Reggie Miller are certain Iverson will be playing again by next year, if not sooner.

But both also agree that Iverson will need to change his attitude and understand that he sin't a franchise player anymore, and that that attiude is what is holding AI back from getting the kind of offers he wants.

Barkely's TNT deskmate, Kenny "the jet" Smith, took it a step further, saying teams aren't just afraid of his attitude, but also his image...the baggage, the entourage, the fashion.

 




I've always been and still am a huge fan of Iverson and I think an offer from the Sixers is the best thing that could happen for him. I want to see him at least end his career on a high note and show the teenagers who were probably in daipers in the 90s the all-NBA player he used to be and can still be in the right situation. The Sixers have a huge need for a starting guard, have Andre Iguodala who can facilitate for him and has chemistry with Iverson from his first stint with the Sixers, and it's where his career began and he's had the most success. But he most definitely has an ego he needs to get into check to make a comeback anything more than a trainwreck.

Alright, now onto a couple video highlights...

Josh Smith and Michael Beasley both won games for their teams with incredible offensive rebounds and putbacks:

Judge for yourself which was better:

But incredibly enough, these aren't even the best video highlights of the week. This is.

Kobe Bryant hit a shot from behind the backboard:

You have got to be kidding me Kobe...

Alright, next up are a couple of logic-defying numbers.

The Warriors dressed just six players against the Mavs, and still won:

Yep, it would appear they still have Dallas' number. The Warriors only had Monta Ellis, Steph Curry, Vladamir Radmonavic, Anthony Morrow, Mikki Moore and Anthony Randolph, but walked away with a 111-103 win over the Mavs.

It's unclear what exactly the status is in Golden State. Officially the report is injuries, but with Don Nelson, you never know. Last season he shut down Stephen Jackson, Corey Maggette, Andris Beidrins and Jamal Crawford for extended parts of the season with "injuries", presumably to increase the Warriors' lottery chances.

Jason Williams leads the league in assist/turnover ratio:

Who would have ever though this would happen? Williams is currently posting 4.1apg to just 0.9to/g (as in fewer turnovers than games played), good for a lofty 4.83 ratio.

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Granted Williams has been solid with the ball since his days with the Grizzlies, but still, it's odd that a guy who used to cough it up 4 or 5 times a night with the Kings suddenly be the NBA's gold standard in playmaking efficiency.

Much how the Magic didn't suffer the suspension of Rashard Lewis thanks to Ryan Anderson, they haven't skipped a beat because of Jameer Nelson's injury thanks to Williams. The Magic are 4-1 with Williams starting so far, with a win over Boston in that time.

Now for some news on the Blazers...


Travis Outlaw has a broken foot and is out basically the whole season:

Officially the diagnosis is 3-5 months, but it's probably safe to say it will be 5 months, which puts his return sometime in April. Would the Blazers risk upsetting chemistry to try and reinsert him into the rotation during the playoffs? Doubtful.

But then again, the Blazers don't have great chemistry going for them right now...

Brandon Roy has thrown Andre Miller under the bus:

As Wolves fans no doubt remember, the Blazers tried out a three gurad lineup of Roy, Miller and Steve Blake earlier this year. They have since abandoned that experiment, party because of the defensive liabilities it creates, but also partly because Brandony Roy said so.

"I feel like we tried it (the three-guard lineup)," said Roy, "and you could say it worked at times, but me sacrificing hurt the team, so it should get back to me playing full-out and getting some other guys in other areas to sacrifice a little bit."

Kind of a selfish statement, isn't it? By "other guys" he clearly is talking about Miller, and by "sacrifice", he means Miller should sacrifice his starting job so Roy can dominate the ball.

Roy-miller_medium

It's a little unclear who ultimately shoulders the blame in this. Roy, for saying his desires supercede the team? Miller, for not playing his role? McMillan, for not managing this well? Pritchard, for making such an illogical signing in the first place?

McMillan backed up Roy, saying "I want to give the team back to Brandon. It's his team."

Portland fans are a little confused over the issue.

One said "Just with his (Roy's) comments about how everyone else needs to sacrifice or rather "guys in other areas" (i.e. Miller) so that he can get the best out of himself because he is the centerpiece of the team and no one else can play well unless he does, which is true in a way but it came across kind of arrogantly. At least to me."

Another told me "One has to wonder if McMillan is doing it for his own benefit. He's a notorious micromanager, and perhaps feels safer playing Blake and calling plays himself, rather than playing Miller and letting Andre run the floor."

A third simply said, "Blake is the new Anthony Carter. Crappy player who gets burn because his coach has a fetish for him."

In any case, the Blazers need to figure it out. They saw a tangible effect of it last night, dropping a bad loss to the Grizzlies because McMillan couldn't decide on a point guard, and neither produced as a result. Roy can say what he wants, but the reality is a team needs to have a reliable point man on the floor 30 minutes a night, or the team doesn't run smoothly. No one knows that better than the Wolves.

And of course, speaking of the Wolves, regrets, and their point guard...

I'm going to throw my two cents about Jennings and Flynn out here:

Which is the following three points:

1) Jennings isn’t more talented than Flynn. Or Lawson, or Collison, or Holiday, or Curry, or Teague, maybe not even more talented than Maynor or Beaubois. He just has the most opportunity. But individual games played by all those players has shown there's a very negligible talent gap between them, if one exists at all.

2) Jennings hasn’t exactly been spectacular every night. Ok, 55 points is damn impressive. But in the last three games, he’s averaging 12ppg on 28% shooting. He scored just 12 points on 21 shots against the Spurs, just 14 points on 15 shots against the Hornets, and was a complete non-factor in last night’s blowout loss to the Thunder, unless you count getting lit up by Westbrook being a factor.

3) The Bucks’ record has as much, if not more, to do with Andrew Bogut as it does Jennings. Bogut has been out almost two weeks now and the Bucks are sub-.500 without him (2-3) Also factoring in is the absence of defensive wonder Luc Ricard Mbah A Moute.

Without getting into the intricacies of the triangle, it's safe to say it limits point guard play, and there's any number of examples that can be brought up to support that. Jennings is playing in a system that's almost built specifically for him, because....well, what other choice does Milwaukee have?

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Bucks fans I asked about this were surprisingly encouraging. They understand Skiles' system and his history of point guards, echoing what Sessions said (Rambis is a big man, Skiles is a point guard) and supporting what Rambis said (Jonny could do the same thing as Brandon in the system Brandon plays in)

"Jennings has become a bit overrated since his 55 point game. Not to take anything away from him, he played fantastic that night, and he's been pretty damn good overall other than on the recent road trip.

As far as I'm concerned, most of the drafts prior to Jennings were good anyways. Flynn is going to be good, Evans is already good, Blake should be good as well... I'm not going to keep going on with this, you get the point.

Jennings is good, but Flynn is a hell of a PG himself. To say otherwise is a joke. Same goes for Lawson."

So is there someone to blame for this, like in the Roy/Miller issue? Should Kahn have picked someone else? Should Rambis stop running the triangle? Is Jonny just not very good?

I had Flynn ranked as the #3 point guard in this draft behind Rubio and Curry, and he was close enough to Curry in my mind that he might as well have been tied for second. He's got athleticism. He's got court vision. His numbers his final year at Syracuse were literally identical to Chris Paul's numbers his final year at Wake Forest. He's arguably the best defender of any of the point guards in this draft, with the possible exception of Rubio. And though it's hard to quantify it, his natural leadership and charisma are extremely important, especially on a team like ours that lacks those qualities. Jefferson is not a leader. Love quite honestly is too blunt for his own good to be a good leader. Foye did not provide any leadership whatsoever last year. We need that, and we've been needing that since Cassell was sent packing to the Clippers.

I definitely think it's way too early to write of Jonny. There's so much context and circumstance that needs to be accounted for. Like anything else with the team, this needs time.

Anyway, on to the part I'm sure you've all been waiting for.

Kevin McHale talked about what he regretted most from his tenure with the Wolves:

McHale was on SI's podcast this past week, and it ended up being a very interesting listen.

First up, he spoke about this summer's free agency and what teams look for in building a roster. He brought up the example of Chris Bosh, and how to build a team around a player who's not quite a one-man franchise (he said only Kobe, Wade and LeBron qualify as that), but who is significantly better than "just a second option". He noted how Andrea Bargnani perfectly compliments Bosh on offense, but leaves the team vulnerable on defense, and even mentioned that he thinks Bosh and Al Jefferson would make a great frontcourt (even though we wouldn't be much better defensively than Bosh/Bargnani...)

He also noted that Jefferson is a big lure for free agents, pointing out that the Knicks have nothing to offer free agents in terms of quality teammates.

So you can see his trademark come to the front...he's primarily concerned about fitting together an offense and almost completely ignoring defense...his MO while he was here.

McHale then talked about his playing days, saying the hardest guys for him to guard were Barkley and Rodman, because they did so much without the ball and crashed the offensive glass for easy putbacks. He also noted that players and coaches talked basketball a lot more in his era, versus watching movies or listening to music now, and feels that's why so many players from his era are coaches now, and why players now struggle more with fundamentals and basketball IQ.

Finally, the question came up about if he would have done anything differently while with the Timberwolves if he could go back and get a second chance on one thing. His answer:

"I would have kept Ray Allen."

I'm sure that when you read this at the top of this update, you immediately thought "Roy/Foye", or maybe Sprewell, maybe Jaric. But for those of us who are old enough and have been around the team long enough, this is exactly the right answer.

The Wolves drafted Ray Allen 5th overall in 1996, then immediately traded him and Andrew Lang to the Bucks for the #4 pick, Stephon Marbury, because the team, as McHale said in the podcast, "needed a point guard". (We really did)

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McHale says he was and is a fan of Marbury, but said that because of the rookie pay scale being implemented and Marbury being a year behind Garnett, that KG's big contract started off a "streak of jealousy" in Starbury that...well, we know how the story ends. McHale said that Allen has been "solid his whole career", while things "just haven't worked out for Steph".

Undestatement of the decade there...

Certainly there's an element in that of having watched Allen and Garnett win a title together in Boston, but the truth is, had McHale known the jealousy Marbury would develop and had therefore kept Allen, the Wolves probably would have been perennial contenders from about 1998 to possibly all the way up to right now, and McHale would have been hailed as one of the best GM's in the NBA. It's the ultimate mix of regrets and unfulfilled potential, both for what KG and Allen could have been, and for what KG and Marbury nearly became, and the guy who made the call that probably ultimately cost him his job and possibly his reputation.

The NBA is full of promises that never get realized.

And as Mark Jackson likes to say, father time is undefeated. Wishful thinking about second chances is just that....wishful thinking. What if Jennings was a Timberwolf? What if Allen had been? What if Iverson had been? Remember that we all but closed a deal with the Sixers to acquire Iverson for Randy Foye....another trade that might have rescued McHale's management career.

But in the end, what we have is what we have, and we can only go forward from here. Despite our current record, I think David Kahn is off to a pretty good start. Let's hope we still feel that way when he finally cashes in the assets he inherited.

Until next week...

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Interesting...

I scrolled down to the McHale stuff because I thought it’d be good, and it was. I think he’s using hindsight to say that, but his main point seems to be that there was enough evidence out there to suggest that Allen was just as good as Marbury with less potential for problems. That said, Flip was the GM back then, and he without a doubt had input on that decision, as did the press about KG and Steph becoming good friends and the way a PG-big man combo can really build a good foundation (which was a bit forced since KG was playing the 3 and Googs was an All-Star 4 for them). Not to mention that the team had Terry Porter to mentor Marbury. I don’t hold it against McHale for that decision; it was the way he handled everything once Googs showed no interest in returning. But it’s pretty obvious that keeping that pick would’ve set this team up better than it was, since Allen’s been a good soldier most of his career and only been traded when his team didn’t want him.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Nov 28, 2009 6:56 PM CST reply actions  

I'd love to see a list

of things McHale got wrong compared to a list of things he got right. Obviously we would have to keep this reasonable and not say “by not drafting player x who got taken at 53 over the guy he did draft at 6.” It’d be a long list nonetheless.

by Mplax on Nov 28, 2009 11:07 PM CST reply actions  

I tried to do this on TWolvesBlog

And was ripped because they thought I was being too favorable to McHale. Here’s an abbreviated version.

Franchise-altering gaffes: the Joe Smith deal, Roy-for-Foye, not trading Googs to the Lakers with Peeler for Elden Campbell and Eddie Jones

Mistakes at the time and now: not re-signing Terry Porter, not re-signing Chauncey, matching the offer sheet for Hassell, re-signing T-Hud, trading a #1 for Marko, trading a #2 for Ronald Dupree, Ndudi Ebi instead of Josh Howard or Kendrick Perkins, drafting Paul Grant, trading a #2 for Darrick Martin in ’96, signing Stojko Vrankovic to be the starting center in ’96, not re-signing Dean Garrett and then being forced to give up a #1 to get him back (along with Bobby Jackson), signing Rasho with 2 games left in the ’99 season which moved his free agency up a year, signing Mark Madsen to a 5 year $10 million deal, signing Eddie Griffin (RIP) to a 3 year deal, trading the #34 pick to Miami instead of using it on DeAndre Jordan/CDR/Mario Chalmers, firing Casey and hiring Wittman, signing Mike James, Chris Richard instead of Marc Gasol or Ramon Sessions

Mistakes in hindsight: Wally Szczerbiak instead of Rip Hamilton or Shawn Marion, Will Avery instead of Ron Artest or Andrei Kirilenko, Louis Bullock instead of Manu Ginobili, trading Allen for Marbury, McCants instead of Danny Granger, giving Wally a $10mil/yr extension, Corey Brewer instead of Joakim Noah or Thad Young

Franchise-altering good moves: drafting KG, hiring Flip as coach

Good moves: drafting Rasho and Craig Smith, signing Chauncey, T-Hud, Hassell, LaPhonso Ellis, Fred Hoiberg, Dean Garrett, Sam Mitchell, Terry Porter, trading Mayo for Love and others, trading Ricky D and Blount to the Heat for expirings and a first-rounder, getting a first rounder from the Sixers for taking Booth and Carney

I might’ve forgotten some things.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Nov 28, 2009 11:51 PM CST up reply actions  

AWESOME

Although I would dispute the Eddie Griffin as a bad move thing. Think of him as our current day Ryan Hollins, with more upside.
Let’s see if I can come up with any more off the top of my head….
Could we consider the KG deal a bad one? Considering what was on the table anyways. i.e. would we rather have Bynum and Odom (think they would still be here?), or Deng and Noah I believe the offer was (and now people are saying they would trade Noah straight up for Big Al), and I’m sure I am missing more. Personally, I’d classify it as a franchise-altering gaffe.
Did he have a part in not ensuring we kept Tom Hanneman (he was the announcer that coined all those awesome nicknames, right?)?
Not trading Foye for Iverson was mentioned somewhere, correct?

I think you covered it pretty well. Good job!

Should we start a list for Kahn so we don’t have to think back so far 10 years down the road? haha

by Mplax on Nov 29, 2009 12:13 AM CST up reply actions  

Am I understanding...

that the Bulls would trade Noah straight up for Big Al, Mplax? Wouldn’t other players have to be in that deal for salary reasons? I would gladly trade Al for Noah. More Athleticism and D, especially if they are giving us expirings.

by Wolf21 on Nov 29, 2009 12:55 PM CST up reply actions  

No sorry

I meant it as the deal on the table from Chicago (I was wrong, as PSR pointed out) was Garnett for Noah and Deng. Whereas instead we got Big Al, Gomes, Bassy, and picks. What do you think is better? Because a lot of people have said they would trade Big Al straight up for Noah, so Deng on top of that just makes me feel like we missed out on the better deal.

by Mplax on Nov 29, 2009 8:50 PM CST up reply actions  

The Bulls offer...

Was the Knicks pick used to take Noah, either Deng or Gordon (can’t remember), and Tyson Chandler, but that would’ve been done in ’06 because they traded Chandler for P.J. Brown later that offseason.

I think the KG trade is one that can’t be determined yet. I defended the trade over other offers (like Biedrins, the #8 used to take Brandan Wright, and Ellis I think) because it seemed like Al was the best player being offered at the time and because they got back the first rounder traded with Wally for Ricky Buckets (though not holding out for either Rondo or Kendrick Perkins instead of Gomes or Gerald Green was a mistake). The pick was a biggie for me because having two picks owed to other teams was kinda scary. In reality, they haven’t made that pick yet because they would’ve had to give the Clips their pick before giving the Celtics theirs. But it’s not like Bynum’s been any healthier than Al or shown that he’s an integral part of the Lakers’ success (good player but they hardly missed him when he was hurt and he didn’t help much when he came back last year), though they might’ve been able to flip Odom for at least another pick to make up for the one the Celtics would’ve kept. It’s also not clear whether Bynum would’ve signed an extension here like Al did.

I wish Tom Hanneman would go back to being the sideline guy. Listening to him after having guys like Kevin Harlan, Gus Johnson, and Chad Hartman call the games is a major step down.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Nov 29, 2009 1:13 PM CST up reply actions  

I think I was thinking

of Kevin Harlan. He was a solid announcer.

by Mplax on Nov 29, 2009 8:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Eddie Griffin

He had some monster games. Of all the moves made out of desperation during this era, I was glad we took a flier on this kid. So much potential. And a really decent person, from everything I heard. Too bad he wasn’t able to make things work. Rest in Peace.

by nextmove on Nov 29, 2009 8:56 PM CST up reply actions  

He just had far too many life issues

And unfortunately I think it was his personal life more than anything that made it so difficult for him to put it together. As we all know, he had issues with drugs and depression, which is why we brought in a couple of the guys we did while he was here. I loved watching him play when he was on the top of his game (I remember watching an 8 block performance and being super excited that we had him), unfortunately he was not a good offensive player and never got the chance to become on beside Garnett. And of course, as you said, RIP.

by Mplax on Nov 29, 2009 9:06 PM CST up reply actions  

I think Terry Porter's problem was his agent

SOmething about misfiled or non-filed paperwork if I remember right. Major blow to the Wolves though in any case…Porter was Marbury’s mentor, the way Mitchell was KG’s. That year we had nearly beaten the #1 ranked Sonics in the playoffs because Marbury was lighting up Payton. If Porter had been back, maybe Starbury’s jealousy would have been managed better and we would have been the contender we looked like we were becoming.

by Oceanary on Nov 29, 2009 9:57 PM CST up reply actions  

You might be right

The Sonics were the #2 seed, though. From what I remember, they never made Porter an offer because they were too fixated on Googs. That’s what was reported in the paper IIRC.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Nov 29, 2009 11:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Also

did you see Williams had 10 assists and 0 turnovers tonight? Phenomenal

by Mplax on Nov 28, 2009 11:09 PM CST reply actions  

He's always been a great talent...

who never got much respect. He was a key piece on that Miami Heat championship team, and was arguably the least washed up of the Miami Heat Washed-Up All-Stars (Shaq, Gary Payton, Antoine Walker). I’m glad he’s playing again.

I’ll never forget his pass in the Rookie game on All-Star weekend. On a fast break with two teammates behind him, he made a behind-the-back pass to one trailer but bounced the ball off his other elbow to bounce it back to the other trailer for the dunk. Awesome.

by Princely Frank on Nov 29, 2009 3:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Idea for a section to add to your posts

“Draft Pick Watch”
Keep us updated on how Utah and the Bobcats are doing (as far as record and where they would draft if the season ended today)

by Mplax on Nov 28, 2009 11:18 PM CST reply actions  

After last night’s win Charlotte is 7-9 and in 7th place in the East. Keep it up Charlotte!

When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

by Xand1 on Nov 29, 2009 11:44 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm thinking of adding that next week

Both in terms of where our picks stand and college players to keep and eye on.

In terms of current status, the Stephen Jackson trade is the best thing that could have ever happened for our Charlotte pick. That team suddenly just can’t lose.

by Oceanary on Nov 29, 2009 9:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Great idea

Obviously the big two are Evan Turner and Cole Aldrich. I’d love to get some updates on Canis about theirs and some other front runners’ games though.

Yeah, unless you think Charlotte is set to implode and would rather have a higher lottery pick 2 years from now than next year. I’m neutral as I can’t tell the future. Both sides have good points.

by Mplax on Nov 30, 2009 1:21 AM CST up reply actions  

I'll make a fanpost later asking everyone who they want to have watched

Pick maybe the top 5 or 6 guys and follow them every week after that

by Oceanary on Nov 30, 2009 10:29 AM CST up reply actions  

Can I just take a time out here and say that Barcelona v Real Madrid (in soccer), the biggest game in all of sports, starts in about 20 minutes, and that I barely know what to do with myself I’m so pumped?

FORCA BARCA!!!
CATALUNYA IS NOT SPAIN!!!

by museum on Nov 29, 2009 11:44 AM CST reply actions  

As far as hindsight...

Picking Starbury back in ‘95 is the equivolent of picking Brandon Jennings this year. I still think Starbury was more talented than RayRay but he squandered it. I could easily see Flynn and Jennings comaring the same way as RayRay and Steph do now. BJ might be more talented but I’d still rather build around the character guy.

by SF on Nov 29, 2009 2:06 PM CST reply actions  

Jennings not a good character guy? I’ve heard otherwise.

by museum on Nov 29, 2009 2:19 PM CST up reply actions  

He has cornrows!

Nah, just kidding.

He talked a little joking smack about Rubio before the draft, plus I think some NCAA guys like to cast dubious aspersions about him because he spurned their system.

But honestly, it makes me sad the way journalists sometimes seem to judge guys’ character based mainly on their haircuts.

by Princely Frank on Nov 29, 2009 2:53 PM CST up reply actions  

I think a lot of it was also

how he handled the whole draft process.

by Mplax on Nov 29, 2009 8:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Hindsight

I agree with McHale’s regret on Marbury, but from a talent standpoint it was a good move and had Marbury meshed with Garnett, instead of feeling slighted by KG’s contract, we also could have been very successful. Steph’s leaving was also a falling domino that led to other unfortunate moves. I agree with pagingstanleyroberts player personnel assessments. Oceanary’s call about Anthony Carter & Steve Blake may be off, I feel. Players like those two are steady, professional and do a good job of managing the game. They are very valuable to a team, even if they aren’t stars or don’t start. And their ego doesn’t get in the way, which showed up in Roy and is, by far, the primary problem with Iverson. While I appreciate his talent, any team with AI will not be a championship team. Lots of players can score tons of points and not influence the outcome of a game.

by ogishkemuncie on Nov 29, 2009 2:30 PM CST reply actions  

Can I tell a Steve Blake story?

A friend of mine played high school ball at one of the big MPLS suburb schools, I think Minnetonka. They played Oak Hill Academy when Blake was there, and they were beating them at the half. The entire Oak Hill team, led by their coach, came into their locker room during the break and talked trash. That’s always blown my mind.

by museum on Nov 29, 2009 2:38 PM CST up reply actions  

If Marbury hadn't had jealousy issues, it'd be a totally different story

And in fairness, that’s not something McHale could have seen coming. At the time, we very badly needed a point guard, and while Isaiah Rider was far from an ideal character guy, he was a 20ppg scoring swingman.

by Oceanary on Nov 29, 2009 10:06 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't agree

Not that McHale shouldn’t have rolled the dice on Marbury (I thought it was the right move at the time and I think it’s still defensible today), but the notion that Marbury’s prima-donna attitude was unknown before the Wolves picked him is bogus. Marbury flat out told Vancouver and Milwaukee not to pick him because he didn’t want to play there. The Wolves were probably only acceptable to Marbury because of Garnett. If it did come as a complete shock to the Wolves that Marbury would pull a stunt like that, they weren’t paying very close attention.

by SeanTO on Dec 1, 2009 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

KG trade

I think we did pretty good in the KG trade, we got Al Jefferson, Kevin Love and Mike Miller (Miller also helped us get Rubio) from trading Mayo with our 1st round pick we got back from Celtics, Wayne Ellington from the 1st we got from Celtics, Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green (i think we later traded him for a 2nd round pick, but atleast we got to chear for him in the dunk contest), Sebastion Telfair (kind of traded him along with Craig Smith for Blount’s huge expiring contract i believe), and Theo Ratliffs big expiring contract to. Honestly we wern’t going any were with KG and we needed to rebuild and i think this really helped us start.

by JacobA on Nov 30, 2009 4:26 PM CST reply actions  

I guess I tend to think it all depends what we turn Jefferson in to

because I don’t see him leading us anywhere either. So unless Rubio pans out, I don’t think Jefferson and Love were the best we could have gotten for KG.
It’s one way to look at it (what came out of what came out of the trade), but we also have to consider what might be if we had taken another trade. I doubt Odom and Bynum would have stayed for long so it’d be interesting to see what we could have gotten for them. Also, Deng, Noah, and Chandler would have been a nice team. Look what happened to NO after Chandler left and look what happened to Charlotte’s defense with him anchoring the post. Noah and Brewer would have been nice for those two to be more comfortable, and Deng is starting to look like a borderline star again. Who knows what could have come of that.

by Mplax on Nov 30, 2009 4:41 PM CST up reply actions  

ya

I agree that we need a good low post defender, i think we should either sign Chandler in the offseason, i believe he is a free agent, or draft Alabi who i think is kind of like Chandler.

by JacobA on Nov 30, 2009 4:49 PM CST up reply actions  

chandler could be a great pickup for the wolves, but only if he came at a reasonable price that allowed for the pickup of a wing player too.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Nov 30, 2009 6:36 PM CST up reply actions  

To Kobe "Circus Shot"

Kahning Pups just posted a video about Marco Belinelli showing him doing almost the exact same thing. I never even heard about that. To be honest, Kobe’s looked easier if anything. Think Kobe would like being compared to Belinelli?

by Mplax on Dec 1, 2009 9:05 AM CST reply actions  

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