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Learning to Love the Brewer

John Waters' favorite player discussing his contract extension with Al Jefferson.

More photos » Danny Moloshok - AP

John Waters' favorite player discussing his contract extension with Al Jefferson.

As I understand it "camp" refers to something that is so bad and distasteful that it becomes appealing by way of irony.  Watching last night's game versus the lowly Clippers, it dawned on me that the Wolves are in possession of the very first camp professional player in the history of the NBA: Corey Brewer. 

Mr. Brewer is impossible not to watch.  He is a wicked combination of moments of stunning brilliance immediately followed by moments of unreal incompetence.  In each and every single game you can be certain to see a professional basketball player miss a shot, flub a pass, or mangle a dribble in ways which you cannot possibly imagine before turning on your television.  You can also be certain to see a 6'8" toothpick move much faster than you first thought was humanly possible while blocking shots, stealing balls, grabbing impossible rebounds, and causing havoc within the reach of his awesomely long arms.  I am not sure if John Waters has a favorite NBA player, but if he does, the former Gator is surely it.

In 37 minutes of action against the Clips, Brewer scored 14 points on 6-21 shooting.  His shots included the final airball of the game, (which was called in advance by boss10), kamikaze drives to the hoop that had no chance of falling, and the occasional silky-smooth pull-up jumper off of a screen that no opposing player has the combination of speed and length to keep up with.  The amazing thing about Brewer's shot selection is that he doesn't really take a lot of bad shots.  This seems impossible but it is not. I have no idea how to explain it other than to point to the fact that he is such an interesting athlete and intelligent player that he has no shortage of situations where he is in exactly the right spot to get good looks.  From being the fastest 6'8" player in transition to being the most versitle athlete in the 1/2 court, Brewer, for the most part, takes shots that absolutely have to be taken.   He just happens to be such a terrible shooter that every attempt is an adventure. 

Adding to the so-bad-it's-good brilliance of his overall game is his typical 2009/10 off-ball stat line.  Last night Brewer grabbed 3 offensive rebounds, dished out 6 assists, stole 5 balls, blocked 2 shots, and ended up with a +1 during 37 minutes in a losing effort.  If anything, he was more disruptive than this line suggests.  He crashed passing lanes he had no business crashing; he flashed off his man to double unsuspecting Clippers; in every imaginable way, Corey Brewer made interesting things happen on the court. 

I know that the Wolves can't really market one of their own players on the basis of his weird combination of brilliance and incompetence, but if you are a fan of basketball there are few players more entertaining in the NBA right now, and none of them are a good watch for the reasons that make Corey Brewer a can't-miss attraction.  If you watch the Wolves you are almost guaranteed to see something that you have never seen before on an NBA court; whether that is an impossibly missed layup or a steal that you did not see coming...well, that's part of the fun and #22 will quickly become one of your favorite players to watch.

As for the rest of the game:

  • The Wolves ended the game without using a timeout on their final possession.  I wasn't paying a lot of attention to the post game Kurt Rambis interview but I believe I heard something along the lines of the team not having practiced in-bounds plays because they have been focusing on the new triangle offense. Did anyone else hear this?
  • For the second game in a row, Ramon Sessions took what is rightfully his: the starters' minutes. For the second consecutive game, he was the Wolves' best guard by a long shot. What happens when a team drafts a potential star point guard who won't come to the league for a few years, follows that up with a guy who can play right away, and then finishes it off by signing a guy who is better than the guy who can play right away?  Flynn will have his ups and downs but if this were a quarterback controversy, the promising young draft pick just is now dealing with a lower-round draft pick who worked his way into the starting lineup. 
  • Ryan Hollins can float.  He doesnt' just jump high, he floats. 
  • Hollins was fouled on his last-minute dunk over hillbilly Chris Kaman with the Wolves down by 3.  Hollins does his fair share of fouling but the refs blew a call that should have given Hollins the opportunity to tie the game at the line.  The action was best described in our game thread:

 

Hollins has to submit his resume as a legit NBA player to the refs union. After a careful review and numerous blown calls they might just decide that he deserves fair treatment.

When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

by Xand1 on Nov 3, 2009 12:02 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It’s a long process. Lots of paperwork and such.

asfd

by Xand1 on Nov 3, 2009 12:04 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

  • I'm not claiming that the refs blew a game where the Wolves shot 42% from the floor, but it is frustrating as hell to watch them not get a call on an amazing play that would have been gifted to someone like Shaq, Dwight Howard, or Chris Bosh.  
  • Speaking of the refs, it's good to see that Craig Smith is still not getting the benefit of the doubt.  At least we now know it had nothing to do with the large "Minnesota" on the front of his uniform.
  • News flash: the Wolves can't shoot.
  • For all of the talk about Kevin Love and Corey Brewer having their 2010 options picked up, the under-the-radar contract story of the year will be Ryan Gomes and his unguaranteed-before-June 31st $4.2 mil deal.  I'm pretty sure Gomesy signed a deal that priced him off of the 2010/11 squad, as I can't see Kahn giving that much money to a guy who can't really start at the 3 or the 4.  
  • How is Mike Dunleavy still in charge of a major league basketball team? 
Well folks, that about does it for today's wrap.  What did you notice about the game?

Until later.

0 recs  |  Comment 134 comments |

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Comments

Display:

Camp. Exactly.

Is that Benny Hill’s theme music I hear? Some sort of Keystone Cop piano thing?

I can’t believe we picked up the option at that price. It really shakes my confidence in Kahn’s judgment.

That there is a Freddie Hoiberg sort of a call in terms of talent. I wish someone, preferably Rambis, could explain it in terms that would sound like a break from the dunderheaded talent decisions of the past.

by feral on Nov 3, 2009 8:24 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

The Benny Hill theme music is perfect...

…anyone out there with some solid AV skills?

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Nov 3, 2009 8:29 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Suggesting someone is camp usually

Refers to some outward (and exaggerated) effete behaviour and is reserved for the more gay members of our community.

I thought I was learning something very new about Corey….

Judd: "...I've since watched some Steven Seagal movies and I realise that pressure points are no laughing matter.".

by Auswolf on Nov 3, 2009 2:21 PM CST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

:)

I thought about that as I hit the “publish” button. I have no information about that aspect of Mr. Brewer’s personal life and am only referencing his entertainment qualities ;)

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Nov 3, 2009 2:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This seems a bit

overreactionary to me. Brewer’s played 98 NBA games. He’s a whirling dervish on the defensive end and a project on the offensive end, much as was expected when he was drafted. Do you really think Kahn & Rambis plan to have Brewer jack up 21 shots a game long term?

by saudagg on Nov 3, 2009 9:29 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You hit the nail on the head

Long term, they need other players who will take the shots. Ideally, Brewer figures out a few spots on the floor where he can be effective as well as which drives work and which result in flailing shots, then limits himself to 10 shots/layups per game. On a team with a few great scorers, what he needs to be is a defensive star who settles for ten points per game while shooting 45% and getting a couple free throws.

by Rumblebee on Nov 3, 2009 4:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Strongly disagree, your outlook is shortsighted

You want to give up the rights to a promising young player so we can overpay some primadonna free agent next year?

Picking up Brewer’s option was a very good idea. Will he be worth 3.7 next year? Possibly not, but maybe, you never know, if you look at the long list of Wolves on the roster who have been overpaid, 3.7 for a guy with a great attitude and a lot of potential doesn’t seem like that much. Theoretically, if he were on the market right now for a one year contract from 2010-2011 he probably wouldn’t get that much, but what would he get? Maybe 2.5-3, but I’m just pulling that number out of my butt, but it seems about right.

But it’s not that simple, they’re not just keeping it for the value, they’re paying first and foremost for the flexibility. That ‘restricted free agent’ thing is a huge bargaining chip in favor of the team and it would be foolish to let it go to save a few bucks next year. Usually other teams don’t want to go near those players, which means their is no competition and they end up saving a lot of money in the long run by offering a proven player less money than they would get in the free market. But at least it means they can match whatever he’s offered or they’ll get a longer contract below the free market price.

Secondly, it allows them to keep it as a one year contract. If they didn’t pick up his option, but decided to re-sign him next year they would have to give him a longer contract. In all likelihood we’ll know if Brewer is a real NBA player by sometime next year, if it turns out he’s not or he’s too injury prone and he’s on a long contract then those additional years are wasted. As it stands right now, if we realize that Brewer just isn’t good enough to warrant NBA playing time this year then he’s an expiring next summer, which may even be an important asset in a trade, if we realize next year that he sucks then he’s off the books the year after. Either way, it seems like a small price to pay for an insurance policy on him being great and a guarantee of a good contract length, so it’s kind of a no brainer.

I like Brewer a lot and I think he will be really good if he doesn’t get injured and the wolves are patient. I don’t know if his talent will translate into fan appreciation or praise from media pundits, but what do they know? I put much more value in the opinions of a guy like Rambis and he seems to like Brewer a lot. I realize many aspects of his game need work, but you could say that about most 2nd year players, but the thing separating him from being a bad/mediocre and good/star player is his shooting. It’s clear from his shot count that he’s been given the green light to shoot as much as he wants. That could be bad for short-sighted fans who want to see immediate w’s, but in terms of long term strategy it’s brilliant because if he can develop a reliable outside shot he’ll be a player. He had a +1 in a game where he went 6-21, if he had a career fg % of low 40’s, not great but barely acceptable and less than what he shot at Fla. that would translate into 9-21, that’s a +7 or 8 and that’s the difference between a w and an l.

by kiteman on Nov 3, 2009 10:37 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

For the *flexibility*???

The cap implications of this move are simply rotten. We weren’t just deciding on Brewer (a defensive-minded player whose offensive limitations are pretty staggering as Stop-n-Pop rightly observes). We were deciding on other things to do with that money.

We picked up Ramon Sessions for $4 million this offseason. You honestly think Corey Brewer’s got any chance of being worth that same money — with a shrinking cap, in next year’s free agent market?

They’re paying well, well more than market value. I like the kid, I’d enjoy seeing him play for a reasonable deal. But then, I felt that way about Marko Jaric, who didn’t make me wince absolutely every time he touched the ball.

by feral on Nov 3, 2009 1:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Next year’s market is a totally different beast from this year’s, though. Sessions was a byproduct of teams looking ahead to next year and fewer teams having money to spend in the first place. I can agree in principle, but you never know what might have happened – next year’s FA market is going to be wild, with at least one or two teams that missed out on a big name FA doing something unpredictable like offering Rudy Gay a deal at 10+ per year or signing Brewer to $4 million deal.

When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

by Xand1 on Nov 3, 2009 1:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Brewer would be *at best* a Sessions-type signing late in the FA period

He’d be maybe fourth or fifth tier talent by next summer’s standard. I don’t buy for a second that he’d wind up getting $4 million from anyone, not unless he somehow demonstrates that he’s a completely different offensive player than he is at present. That would be about like expecting a baseball player with horrible plate discipline to suddenly draw 80+ walks a year….

by feral on Nov 3, 2009 6:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Does it bother you that Brewer is on the team this year??

I haven’t seen many people demand that Brewer get traded or benched now. If his option for next year was the same price as this year would more people be in favor of bringing him back another year?
I am not a Brewer apologist, and have as many doubts as most. I just think if he is worth about $2.9 mil this year, does another $800,000 for ONE more year make keeping him foolish.
Whether keeping him another year pays off remains to be seen, and may even be less than 50/50, but I think most people would applaud the move if it was for $2 mil instead of $3.7 mil. I am of the belief that the extra money next season is not going to change what the Wolves/Kahn have planned, some gambles payoff, some don’t. Either way, this is not a Jaric/T-Hud deal and should not create damage if it doesn’t work, while the benefit if he does improve is huge (it means using all Assets to find two starters rather than three).

by Rumblebee on Nov 4, 2009 6:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's only a one year deal

so it is hard to call it a bad contract. Also, after watching Kahn this summer, do you have any doubt he knows how to free up some cap space next summer if he feels there is a guy really worth getting (that wants to come here)? I have no doubt he’ll find the cap space if necessary.
BTW, most of what I have heard from Kahn makes me think he plans his push after next summer, in 2011 either at the trade deadline, or that summer.
My prediction, next summer one or two major pieces from this team get traded (Al or Love), then one more year of integrating new players and draft picks. Then the big push for a free agent or two who complete the “Contending Team”.

by Rumblebee on Nov 3, 2009 4:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

In order to justify this deal

you assume as a provisional assumption that the Wolves are bowing out of 2010?

Was it worth it to sign Brewer to something like twice or three times his market value and concede that point a year in advance? Because that’s what we just did.

by feral on Nov 3, 2009 6:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What?!

Who did we just lose out on?
We will still be able to offer close to a max deal.
Who were we going to get for $18 million that we won’t be able to get for $17 million?
Dwayne Wade?

Please explain, because I’m befuddle how we just “bowed out of 2010”.

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by HumdingerTV on Nov 3, 2009 8:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Is signing Brewer to this deal for ONE year

any worse than signing an unproven Hollins for three years.
Sometimes teams have to take a chance, and one year is better than several or more.

by Rumblebee on Nov 4, 2009 6:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Like the point about the fact that extension only adds 1 year after this year .. wheres signing him to a new deal would add more years, thus damaging our flexibility.
That’s a real smart thought of ya

Official Kahn/Rambis band-wagon rider since 2009

by Wim (Belgium) on Nov 4, 2009 3:10 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Disagree

I think they looked at the market and saw that he could get this from another team. Not only that, but if they wanted to include him in a deal for a top wing, the contract is reasonable enough that they could.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Nov 3, 2009 12:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Which other team?

You go ahead and make the comprehensive list for me. Make it simple, so we’re not in the vague land of next year’s free agency:

Teams that will want to trade for Corey Brewer more right now, because the Wolves have made the shrewd decision to pick up his option for next year.

Get me that list. What GM out there is more willing to deal for Corey at this moment than he was last week?

by feral on Nov 3, 2009 1:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's worth keeping for a simple reason

In three years when they have their contending team, if Brewer leaves they will be looking for a player just like him as a defensive specialist. Might as well give it another year, mainly because in this case the downside of letting him leave is greater than the downside of keeping him for one more season.

by Rumblebee on Nov 3, 2009 4:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't have the time to answer that

I don’t concede your point but it’s not something I have the time to go through right now. But here’s a rebuttal: if the Wolves brought in a guy like Rudy Gay or Thad Young or (pie in the sky) one of the big names, do you really think the other team’s refusal to take Brewer back in a trade would kill the deal? If the Wolves have existing cap space and used it with his contract to take on a max deal, it would give the team losing a player at least a warm body with a short-term deal and a trade exception as opposed to losing them with no compensation.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Nov 3, 2009 5:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Okay -- do you think it's *plausible*?

No, I do not especially think a team allowing their big free agent to walk is going to be enthusiastic to take on Brewer’s deal. They themselves, presumably, might have other free agent fish to fry. And what are the odds they’d be after anything like Brewer at something like his contract? Not likely.

There are 30 teams in the league. There is no other franchise that’d overvalue Brewer to this extent. The danger of his getting an offer bigger than $3.7 million from someone else was crazily small.

This was a bad deal in terms of market value, considered individually or as a question of other moves it interferes with.

by feral on Nov 3, 2009 6:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We just disagree on market value and on Brewer's value to the team

You’re underestimating his defensive and open-court value; maybe I’m overestimating it, but it’s not like Anderson Varejao is loads better on offense and he makes twice what Brewer does because most teams would’ve paid him that. Raja Bell makes $5 mil and is a limited offensive player. Gerald Wallace makes $9 million despite not being able to shoot. Does Jason Maxiell ($5 mil) have more impact on a game? How about Jeff Foster ($6 mil)? Or James Jones ($4.3 mil)? Would you rather have Kurt Thomas ($3.8 mil)? Maybe Matt Carroll ($4.7 million)? You can say that these teams won’t overspend, but they weren’t supposed to this year, and tell that to Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva.

Brewer has led the charge in this team’s defensive improvement and helped facilitate their running game. That’s not worth roughly 1/14th of a team’s cap? Also, it’s not like 2010 is the only year that the Wolves can add talent through free agency; they basically have until 2012 (when they need to decide on Jefferson and Love extensions).

by pagingstanleyroberts on Nov 3, 2009 6:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I concur o great one

Timberwolves - NBA champs 2013!
(used with permission - Wolf in MO)

by frankenhoops on Nov 4, 2009 9:32 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well the trend is holding: this team is a hell of a lot more fun to watch than past incarnations of the Wolves. All the promises of a fast-breaking, uptempo team are proving to be true, and I see a lot of potential in these guys.

With Brewer wreaking havoc on the wing and solid guard play from Sessions/Flynn, I think we’re one capable, two-way wing away from taking a big step forward. Imagine having an Iguodala type player out there duplicating what Brewer brings defensively while giving you 17-20 a game. Given the personnell and system we have now, this team is going to need to be able to defend the hell out of th perimeter and keep causing TO’s left and right, and a guy like that would fit right in.

Other than that, they need an athletic big who can consistently complement Love and Al. Here’s to hoping that Hollins can become that guy, but if not, we have no shortage of assets to use to bring one in. Either way, I like where this team is going. It’s still going to be ugly from a W/L standpoint, but there’s a light at the end of the tunnel, and the tunnel is kind of fun.

When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

by Xand1 on Nov 3, 2009 9:07 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Not only does picking up the option give us a completely unique player, it also gives us the right to match any offer in two summers, should Brewer finally synchronize his skills with his manic toothpicks.
He lead the team in assists, steals and blocks last night.
The shooting was awful, but that will go away once we have a high-volume, scoring wing.

Sports are Soap Opera for men, and right now, Brewer is the most entertaining storyline in this Wolves Drama.
Play On.

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by HumdingerTV on Nov 3, 2009 9:09 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Brewer’s liabilities will be much less exposed if he was playing with a very good scoring wing. But we can’t forget how much better his perimeter defense makes our frontcourt. He also aids us in getting more offensive opportunities than our opponents. With the right personnel, he will be a difference maker for a long time.

Both Brewer and Love are complementary players that require the right personnel at the 1, 2 or 3, and 5. If you can find complete players for those three slots, then you have a very good rotation on the floor. Every player doesn’t need to be a prototypical player. But you do need players to complement them to create synergy.

by TheEvilProfessor on Nov 3, 2009 9:20 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Corey Brewer

We’re 4 games in and Corey Brewer is now tied with Kobe Bryant for the league lead in steals per game! What is the over/under for the amount of times Tom Hanneman mentions this during our next game?

by Blakeley on Nov 3, 2009 9:21 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I’d say it’s set at 3..

How about the number of times he says “there’s something Brewing in (insert city) tonight!”

When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

by Xand1 on Nov 3, 2009 9:22 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll go with

1.5

I take the under at 3 and the over at 1.5

by Blakeley on Nov 3, 2009 2:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Another thing of note: This system really does seem to make it easy for Al to pass, and I thought he looked even better last night than the first two. The doubles seem to be predictable, which in turn creates predictable passing lanes, and he seems to be noticing this.

I really like the play (if you can call it that) where the two wing players in the triangle criss-cross after throwing it to Al on the left block, with the PG usually going baseline and the big wing going toward the top of the key. If the PG’s defender snaps back to double, the PG is wide open under the hoop. If he doesn’t, Al has a wide open baseline for a drop step. If the wing’s guy doubles, Al can snap it back out to him for an open J. Simple, yet effective.

Al actually should have had at least 3 assists last night, because Sessions got wide open on just that play and Al hit him perfectly. He was so open that I think he psyched himself out and blew the layup, but it was positive to see Al recognize it and make the pass as quick as he did (and someone got the offensive board and a putback because of all the defenders collapsing on Sessions).

Also, how about that biffed Flynn dunk! He might have missed it, but it was still ridiculously impressive, and I’d bet he puts it down next time.

When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

by Xand1 on Nov 3, 2009 9:32 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I swear I had spaces in that post when I submitted it..

When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

by Xand1 on Nov 3, 2009 9:35 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We are swtiching over...

….to a new blog format/style today. It’s a bit testy right now .

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Nov 3, 2009 9:36 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Just convincing myself that I didn’t wall of text everybody to death :)

When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

by Xand1 on Nov 3, 2009 9:50 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

My heart just can't handle walls of text.

Also: this new format feels so much more… white.

You were a daydreamer, a sass-mouth, and, not infrequently, a bit of a gigglepuss. Somehow I doubt twenty years of amphetamines and failure have done anything to improve that.

by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on Nov 3, 2009 9:53 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

News Flash

I’ve been holding this under my hat for a while, but now’s about the time to announce. On June 31st, I will be signing a max contract with the T-Wolves, thereby becoming the first player over 40 to ever do so.

Pining for a Troy Hudson/Marko Jaric backcourt.

by SBG on Nov 3, 2009 10:13 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

we look forward to your signing

our wing issues are solved! ;)

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Nov 3, 2009 11:31 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm Looking Forward to June 31st

When my ship will definitely come in.

Pining for a Troy Hudson/Marko Jaric backcourt.

by SBG on Nov 3, 2009 1:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Good things happen

On June 31…..

I’ll be signing on the 32nd to keep Jawai company. No one will eat Vegemite with him.

Judd: "...I've since watched some Steven Seagal movies and I realise that pressure points are no laughing matter.".

by Auswolf on Nov 3, 2009 2:27 PM CST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

It only makes sense as an option

When we’re signing free agents, we attempt not to drastically overpay people. As an option year, well, that’s a whole ’nother situation.

by feral on Nov 3, 2009 3:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So you would like to not re-up Gomes in June then? What about the cap space that K-love is using? This injury may just be the first of many. In what I’m looking at for 2010, signing Brewer for that one year at a reasonable price (that’s right, it wasn’t for 5,6,7 million) and being pretty confident that D-Wade, Bosh, LeBron or Shaq won’t be coming here next year, all Kahn did was sign a glue guy at a good contract and keep flexibility for the future. I mean, c’mon, he got someone to take Q Rich off our hands and if he isn’t overpaid, I don’t know who is!!

Timberwolves - NBA champs 2013!
(used with permission - Wolf in MO)

by frankenhoops on Nov 4, 2009 9:39 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Brewer is a blast to watch. I think that a big reason why he shoots so much is because there aren’t many guys on our team that can get their own shot. As we gather more backcourt talent, I don’t anticipate Brewer shooting 20 times very often.

Jefferson looked a little better last night. I hope his knee holds up and he can get back to his old self in a month or two.

by Andy G on Nov 3, 2009 10:18 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Exactly.

Does Brewer shoot this much on a championship team? No. But we have to remember that our other off-guards (Pavs, Wilkins, Wayne) were a combined 1-11, with 2 rebs, 1 assist, 0 steals, and 0 blocks last night. I say let the Brewer-wrecking-ball swing until someone else steps up and commands those shots and minutes. As is oft-repeated here, if he inches toward 42-43% shooting and maintains the rest of his stat line, he’s an incredible asset.

by TheH on Nov 3, 2009 10:49 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

By the way...

who was Brewer’s primary defensive assignment last night?

by TheH on Nov 3, 2009 10:50 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Eric Gordon, I believe...

I don’t remember who he was guarding all the time, but I know he ripped Gordon and took it all the way for a dunk. But we were doubling down on Kaman sometimes, which led to a lot of scrambling.

by Andy G on Nov 3, 2009 11:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Correct

And Gordon didn’t have a great game. But he was doubling off of Gordon quite a bit, too.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Nov 3, 2009 12:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Eric Gordon's game

I’d rather have heard he was on Davis, Butler, or Thornton, who stunk it out. Gordon was the only Clippers player who had it going outside.

He shot .500, 6 for 12, was 2-5 from three, and added three clean FTs. Put up 17 points, 3 assists and 3 steals. Not in any way a bad night, was it?

by feral on Nov 3, 2009 3:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, somebody's all lathered up about Brewer

No, it wasn’t a bad night, but was there any point where you said, “we have got to stop Eric Gordon right now”? I also mentioned that Brewer was doubling off Gordon quite a bit, and Gordon didn’t exactly take advantage (scoring at about his average). Brewer also had five steals, which is good no matter how defensively-productive they are. But yeah, focus on the details that make you look smart.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Nov 3, 2009 5:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I hate bad contracts

It’s an instinct I have after watching the McHale regime overpay on its own free agents and potential free agents for so long.

I actually enjoy watching Corey Brewer play a big share of the time. I don’t think oversigning the guy particularly results in his being more likely to stay here over time, though, and I know it cuts badly into the cap situation next summer.

When someone’s carrying too much contract for his game, he becomes a cap management problem no matter who he is. As a Wolves fan, I should think we’d all recognize that, given that it happened to us with the best player in franchise history….

by feral on Nov 3, 2009 6:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Kahn has been more aware of the cap than anything else since taking over

He knows the impact picking up Corey and Kevin’s options has on our signing ability next summer. I trust he has a way to break even on this, the same as he did when we signed Hollins and Sessions.

by Oceanary on Nov 3, 2009 6:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I just worry

that the way around it will involve packing Corey up with a draft asset or something in order to clear more room on next year’s big FA.

Recall how we picked up Carney. That.

by feral on Nov 3, 2009 6:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And again -

Who is the “big” free agent that you think will be here??

Timberwolves - NBA champs 2013!
(used with permission - Wolf in MO)

by frankenhoops on Nov 4, 2009 9:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This position is a surrender

Whether you acquire talent in free agency or via trade during the talent shuffle next summer, cap space is what lets you do that.

To capitulate beforehand is a defeatist position, pure and simple. What Corey’s option did was close down several options in that respect, for negligible gain. I like the kid, but oversigning him doesn’t do anyone any good in even the medium term.

by feral on Nov 4, 2009 12:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The Octopus

Great write-up on Brewer. I wish I had seen last nights game. For some reason that I can’t quite put my finger on, deep down, I’m glad the wolves picked up Brewer’s option. As fans I think many of us really pull for the guy. He may never be an offensive dynamo, but wow he is an octopus out there….

by DR_JPK on Nov 3, 2009 10:43 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

agreed

I love the guy. Nice to see how thoughtful the writing (both in S/P’s post and in the comments) is here, especially compared to other places where all you read is “trade the bum.” Obviously no one knows exactly what kind of player he’ll develop into, but it’s nice to see people here looking at a guy who’s only played 98 NBA games with intelligence and nuance.

Love the John Waters reference too, I’m really eating it up…

I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it

by plinytheelder on Nov 3, 2009 10:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The oddest thing about Brewer is that his supposed length is all a myth. IIRC his wingspan was right in line with his height (i.e. 6’8 with a 6’8 wingspan), which is actually fairly short for a NBA player. They aren’t stubby, but when you have guys like McCants and Eric Gordon who are 6’3 with 6’10+ wingspans, you can’t really call Brewer “long.”

However, when all is said and done and you’ve watched him play, it doesn’t seem to matter. The guy just has a nose for the ball that, combined with his incredible quickness in any direction for a guy who stands 6’9, allows him project this illusion of being a lengthy terror who gets his hands on everything.

When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

by Xand1 on Nov 3, 2009 10:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yup

He has decent height for a SF or SG, but his wingspan is actually kind of short considering his height. I sometimes wonder if those measurements are off. Like you said, at the end of the day he plays long.

by Rascal Flatts on Nov 3, 2009 6:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't get to see entire Wolves games that often

But I did last night, living in Clipper-land as I do.

And I have to say, even with all the missed shots and unintentional comedy, I walked away from that game thinking Brewer is our best player.

Sure, he’s not the best offensive player (although he’s not that far off, since he, Al, and Flynn are the only ones on this squad who seem to be able get shots for themselves), but man, he makes a difference on defense.

It seems like the key to this Wolves team winning any game this season is going to be all the steals an fast breaks, and many of those get started by Brewer, his crazy quicks and his uncanny ability to just grab the ball out of people’s hands.

I guess what I’m saying is that Brewer is THE linchpin of the one thing this Wolves team does really well so far. And is, thus, our best player.

by princelyfrank on Nov 3, 2009 11:03 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

To be the devil's advocate here

It’s quite possible that Brewer’s vices are inextricably entwined with his virtues. The same scattershot scramble that disrupts opponents’ penetration and fills passing lanes at both ends of the court is why Brewer can’t gather and coordinate himself to finish a shot either at the rim or pulling up. Put another way, his shooting mechanics are worse than Bassy Telfair’s—remember the airball free throw vs. Phoenix? His career shooting percentage is 37.8; this year, in the triangle offense that is very favorable to his constant motor, he is shooting 36.1%.

I’m okay with that if Brewer isn’t one shot away from tying Al Jefferson for most FGA on the team. His shot selection belies claims about his high basketball IQ. The dude shares the floor with Jefferson and either Flynn or Sessions. I understand that he’s mostly taking “good shots” but that damns his mechanics further. I don’t subscribe to the theory that repetition will help him; I think team success is a better booster for his skill set, and in chicken or egg fashion, I think if he dishes to more capable scorers more often, he’ll feel less pressure to convert his own buckets when they arise; maybe then he’ll be able to slow down. I say this because Brewer always can establish a rhythm in practice or in pregame warmups; its the adrenaline of game action that red-lines his motor and screws up his coordination. You’ve heard the cliche, “letting the game come to you”? Well, Brewer succeeds on defense precisely because he goes and gets the game by the tail. But that doesn’t work in refining your stroke. So he needs to deemphasize the shots and maybe then he can relax when fulfilling that aspect of his game.

I think re-signing him is on balance a good idea, if only for insurance in case he figures it out. But I want to caution that he is incredibly frail physically for the NBA and will be curious to see how that particular aspect of the soap opera plays itself out in the months ahead.

At this point, with 20/20 hindsight, the Brewer pick seems not disastrous, but problematical. I’d rather have Brewer than Yi Jianlian, who was taken ahead of him, and probably more than Mike Conley, taken even earlier. But imagine if the Wolves had selected Yoakim Noah or Thaddeus Young. (For the record, I endorsed the Brewer pick at the time it was made.)

by Britt Robson on Nov 3, 2009 12:35 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Good points — Brew definitely struggles to relax on offense, and he just can’t seem to slow down, whether it’s on defense, transition, or the half-court offense.

My earlier comment that more backcourt talent would prevent so many Brewer FGA’s is more geared toward the idea that Brewer wouldn’t have to touch the ball so much. But with this team that has almost no perimeter scoring ability, Brewer seems to end up with the ball in his hands, in attack position. Whether that means a curl screen, an open jumper in the corner, or dribble penetration with the shot clock winding down, he seems to be able to get himself good shots. You are right, though — his adrenaline is not helpful to his offense and it certainly leads to airballs on a regular basis.

One guy that many called for on that draft night was Al Thornton. I remember arguing in their rookie years (when Thornton was doing much better, statistically than Brewer) that we made the right choice. I still feel that way. Thornton’s game hasn’t improved a lick, and he does nothing to make the Clippers a better team. Brewer makes a noticeable difference every single game on defense. Not many young players in the NBA can say that.

by Andy G on Nov 3, 2009 12:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Those are good points...

David Thorpe mentioned how good Brewer’s shot looked when he was down working with him at IMG. He really put it best: “Corey Brewer is a disaster in waiting with the ball in his hands. But an action thriller when it isn’t.”

I was mostly in favor of Noah because I thought he would’ve filled out the frontcourt rotation nicely with (at the time) KG, Rhino, and Blount. I also remembered him being touted as a top 3 pick the previous year if he’d come out and that he and Horford were really the straws that stirred the drink for those Florida teams. Young was intriguing but raw at the time and benefited from being able to play smallball PF in an uptempo system until he was comfortable enough to move to the perimeter. What’s weird to think about now is that a lot of people (commenting on your 3-pointers IIRC) thought the Wolves should’ve taken Al Thornton during their rookie year because he was so productive at the time. Ultimately, though, I like the extension if only because he was hurt all of last year and his style of play requires a longer look than 2 seasons.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Nov 3, 2009 12:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ahh Thornton, the Nickelback to Rudy Gay’s Creed.

When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

by Xand1 on Nov 3, 2009 12:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's only unfair in my eyes

Because by Rudy being much better than Al, it implies that Creed is somehow better than Nickleback, when both are as low on the totem pole as it gets.

by nja700 on Nov 3, 2009 3:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t know, I think Nickelback is a notch lower than even Creed.

When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

by Xand1 on Nov 3, 2009 3:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm hoping...

….that it’s simply a matter of needing an offensively-adept 3 next to him. He’ll still have tons of great looks due to his ability to run and his ball IQ, but in the 1/2 court I’m hoping he can be hid a bit by a legit wing next to him.

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Nov 3, 2009 1:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You have to think that, as of right now, he’s been given the green light in the name of player development. I don’t see him actually thinking taking 21 shots is a good idea, at least not if the coaches hadn’t told him to fire away. I’m fine with him shooting if it will help hone his skills in the long run, even if his ultimate role will be to take far far fewer shots.

When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

by Xand1 on Nov 3, 2009 1:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But how and why does more shots develop him as a player? That’s like saying bringing the ball up will improve his ballhandling. If he does it well enough to bolster his confidence, yes. If he doesn’t, then not necessarily. A handful of embarrassing misses and 36% overall is not a healthy process for any shooter, and won’t improve him.

by Britt Robson on Nov 3, 2009 1:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How and why? Repetition of the very same in-game situations you mentioned above. The more chances he has at pulling up for a jumper at full speed or going in for a putback after an offensive rebound in a real game, the better he should get at it. Or maybe he’s a complete idiot who never improves. I guess I can’t speak for his mental makeup, but I’m of the philosophy that it’s better to let him try figure it out on the court than take touches away from him and all but guarantee he never moves above 5th option on the floor at any time.

I’d like to think that eventually he’ll learn to slow it down during those crucial moments before taking a shot, and that will in turn help him knock more of them down. Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems to me that if this is going to be a player development year, we should be helping our players develop. If he still shows no sign of growth after this year, then you can probably close the book on him, but until then I’d give him a fairly long leash. I’m not saying I agree with him taking 21 shots, but I’m fine with him shooting it if he can get himself a good look.

When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

by Xand1 on Nov 3, 2009 2:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

adrenaline

if the adrenaline rush of the in-game situation is what throws his shooting off, then getting reps in during the game is going to be much more helpful than at practice.

by Dib432 on Nov 3, 2009 2:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The thing about Brewer

Is that if converts the 2-3 layups and tip-ins that he seems to miss a night, his shooting average will jump up to the upper .400s, his scoring average goes up 3-4 points a game, and suddenly he’s on par with the Rudy Gay’s and OJ Mayo’s in terms of both fga/game, pts/game, and fg%.

Nobody is ever going to mistake him-or expect him-to be the next Wally World or Ray Allen. The fact is that in some ways he’s not all that far away from improving his OE dramatically. Brewer needs to learn how to play offensively under control. I think the fastest way you do that, especially for a guy who seems to have a pretty good Bball IQ, is to give him experience. Brewer wants to do well and will put in the work to figure it out. This is Shaddy McCants we’re talking about, or even Stewie. It’s like Love’s offensive game-these guys are smart enough and have so much desire to be great that they’ll learn from what works and what doesn’t and figure out how to fix it.

Lastly, from DraftExpress:

While at Florida he was most effective as a catch and shoot player or taking advantage of defensive rotations to explode off the dribble going left and finish with a finger roll

Brewer’s shooting has a ton of potential as we saw in the Final Four this year, where he was named Most Outstanding Player for those who forgot. His shooting mechanics are clean and very fluid, with a crisp, quick release, good balance, and the ability to get his shot off almost whenever he wants thanks to his height and length. He shot around 70% from 16-17 feet out from what we charted, and about 60% from the NBA 3. Those are decent, but definitely improvable numbers, although it’s not hard to envision him becoming a very solid NBA shooter considering his mechanics and work ethic. His shot can flatten out at times in terms of the arc he gets on it, something that he’s already working on from what we were told. He put up a ton of jump-shots in the time we saw him, and was pretty streaky overall.

Are we all saying that Brewer lost all those tools overnight and isn’t going to get them back? Could he simply be suffering from confidence issues and playing too out of control? Give the guy some more time. He’s only played in 98 games. Sessions, by comparison, has played in 100. It seems like we all assume that Brewer’s a more veteran player than Sessions, but really they’re about equal. Do we really expect Sessions not to improve?

"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."

by biggity2bit on Nov 3, 2009 2:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sessions can stay on the floor

Would Corey, if the Wolves had any other starting-level wings in hand?

by feral on Nov 3, 2009 6:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not comparing the two players, but what about the difference in shooting for Trevor Ariza during last year’s playoffs? He regularly shot under 30% from 3 but started knocking them down in the playoffs. To me, that’s a feature of the triangle offense: take good shots every game, even if they’re not going in, and if they start to go in, it’s a bonus. The point isn’t that more shots develop him as a player; it’s that taking open shots that are within his range help show that the coaching staff is behind him so he’s more confident taking one in a tight situation.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Nov 3, 2009 5:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So what you're saying is

That you improve just as much as a shooter taking 0 shots as you do taking 20 shots?
Then why do people practice?

by Mplax on Nov 3, 2009 5:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm of the opinion..

….that someone needs to sit down with Corey and go over things like hot zones, which direction he shoots better going in, and so on and so forth. He is smart enough and athletic enough to get a lot of good looks. If he can maximize his good attempts by just a little, then I think he can become a better player simply by taking shots he has a better chance at making…relatively speaking.

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Nov 3, 2009 2:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Very true, and my above post is predicated on him actually taking good shots. Someone also needs to teach him not to lead with the ball when going up for layups, because he gets swatted an awful lot for a guy with his size and quickness.

When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

by Xand1 on Nov 3, 2009 2:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sometimes a missed shot is essentially an assist. If Corey can attack the basket and get the ball up on the rim, Jefferson and Love (two of the more aggressive offensive rebounders in the league) will clean up his mess. It doesn’t make the stat sheet look very pretty, but not every missed shot is a bad one.

by Andy G on Nov 3, 2009 2:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

another question to ask..

…is what is the probability of a better shot from other guys in the offense? I don’t have the data in front of me but I wouldn’t put money on Gomes, Sessions, or Big Al being better jump shot options in the 1/2 court. It’s not always what is happening on the court but what doesn’t happen. if Brewer is taking shots that have a better chance of going in than, say, Sessions 20 footers or Big Al shots from the right side of the key…well, along with being kind of scary that’s not a terrible thing…relatively speaking on this squad.

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Nov 3, 2009 2:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

but..

…to go to what Britt is saying, I’m not sure how that helps him develop. I think his development will consist largely of discretion with his shot.

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Nov 3, 2009 2:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But

Didn’t you already say that he was taking the shots that he was supposed to be taking in this offense? It’s not like he’s Stewie out there.

"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."

by biggity2bit on Nov 3, 2009 3:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i think it can go both ways..

….because he’s taking shots he probably shouldn’t be passing up but there is nobody better to take them…which says a lot about the roster right now. who else on the wing should be taking these shots? it’s ugly. once he is surrounded with good players, i’m hoping he exercises discretion. that’s what i was going at.

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Nov 3, 2009 3:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with this . . .

. . . Those of us who like Corey the person / player all hope that Brewer has Bowen-like upside — the guy who can shut down the opposing teams’ best wing and hit the corner 3 when left open, makes the right pass, and doesn’t try to do too much.

The challenge, obviously, is that you can only be Bowen if you have a lot of championship-level talent around you.

So the extension becomes interesting — I think ti’s the right move because it does seem to me like Brewer has the ability to become a very good defender, and that alone should make it close to worthwhile from a value perspective. Add on top of that the option value of retaining his rights and either getting the benefit of his upside or trading him seems to be pretty low risk to me. If you need to clear cap space next summer, I would think you would be able to find someone to take him off your hands, though you may have to throw in a protected 1st rounder (a la the Booth/Carney/Utah’s 1st trade).

What is intriguing to me is the fact that it clearly seems like he’s gotten the green light from the staff to shoot. More than 20! shots last night is pretty remarkable considering we’d all be encouraged if he made 8-9 of them instead of 6. Clearly the coaching staff is going to let guys like him and Ellington (as noted below) work some things out on the court, which is probably good from a development standpoint and a draft position standpoint. Of course, it begs the question: if the Celts can hold Charlotte to 59 points, how many can they hold us to tomorrow night?

by Sterno on Nov 3, 2009 3:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Charlotte has the worst offense in the league

We are actually not that bad right now (mostly cuz of pace though).

by Mplax on Nov 3, 2009 5:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

in terms of points per 100 possessions, the wolves are tied for 24th with my beloved warriors. not to be rude about it, but this is very disappointing for the boys by the bay. we’re a team full of scorers that isn’t any better offensively than a team that features corey brewer for 37 minutes a night. all the more reason to hope and pray for a deal for our mad gunner, stephen jackson to go through very soon…

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on Nov 3, 2009 5:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

Stephen Jackson is a rich man’s Brewer… unless you are talking about attitude. Then Jackson is a destitute man’s Brewer.

by Mplax on Nov 3, 2009 10:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Some positive Brewer developments/ Flynn & Sessions together ever?

Having watched the game in its entirety the thing that really stuck out to me was that even though Brewer still can’t finish around the rim or shoot worth a damn he does appear to be improving his ball handling. That play in the second half when he went behind his back with the ball in traffic with Baron Davis on him and than kicked out to Sessions for the J (may have been Ellington) had me double-taking. There were many times during Brewer’s rookie year when it didn’t look like he could even dribble, let alone shoot. It’s pretty obvious he’ll never be a two-way player but if he has shooters to pass to and looks to find them in transition rather than go up with a head of steam for yet another bricked lay-up things could take a turn for the better.

Also Britt would be curious as to your thoughts on whether Flynn and Sessions could be played together for even 5-10 mins a game, it’s pretty clear they’re two of our top 5 guys (particularly with Love down) and I just can’t wrap my head around worrying about size and position issues on a team with this little talent. Seems like a waste of both of their talents having them alternate 20 minute nights.

by Dikembe is Immortal on Nov 3, 2009 1:05 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Rambis taking no shortcuts

It has been extraordinary to see how thoroughly Kurt Rambis is building for the future. I kept looking for the sarcasm (toward the officials, mostly) in the handclapping he did as the Wolves went down to a previously winless team last night, but I think he was genuinely regarding a glass half-full and setting his gauge and perspective on the fact that the squad has played 4 and has 78 games to go.
What that means in terms of not pairing Flynn and Sessions is that I don’t believe Rambis feels that is ever going to be a viable long-term strategy, and so he isn’t going to indulge it in the short term either. Check out the minutes, roster-wide: He’s given more time (barely, but still) to Pecherov than to Cardinal, more time to Ellington than to Pavlovic, and more time to Hollins than any of those four. Corey Brewer leads the team in minutes by a fairly substantial margin.
Meanwhile. Rambis is installing a system, come hell or high water, that has Al Jefferson with as many assists as Ramon Sessions— and only one more rebound in 20 more minutes played. In other words, roles in the triangle are flexible, in reaction to the opponents reaction. And that’s just the half-court sets. More dramatically, Rambis is paying more than lip service to uptempo offense and disruptive defense—Wolves are among the league leaders in steals, a stunning 180 from their entire history as a franchise, and it is more than Brewer doing the pilfering.
I don’t know what all this will produce by the end of the season—it could be chaos. But I don’t think so. And I’ve seen enough of how Rambis wants this team to play to believe that Kevin Love is damn near perfect for the system, provided he gets healthy, can stick the midrange and outside jumper, and can fight through the inevitable double-teams enough to grab some weakside rebounds.
But finally, back to your original question: Why not Sessions and Flynn together? The most succinct answer is, because it doesn’t fit into the long-range push for a championship. I too would be intrigued by the pairing. And I admire Sessions for being such a team player about the situation (imagine if Rubio was on the roster). But Rambis has shown me enough to wait and watch awhile before I criticize.

by Britt Robson on Nov 3, 2009 1:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Imagining is fun

I’ve also thought a lot about what it would be like if Rubio was here. The media has been so quick to pick on Kahn this year, they would tear him apart if minutes were split 24 a piece.

Speaking of imagining things. If we still had Mike Miller, and I was able to do a brain transplant and switch Mike Miller’s brain with Corey Brewer’s brain, would I then be able to say that I had created both the best offensive Wolves wingman (Mike Miller with Corey’s gunner mentality) and the best defensive Wolves wingman (Corey Brewer with Miller’s facilitator mentality) of all time? I say yes.

by Blakeley on Nov 3, 2009 2:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Triangle

Is the triangle the way to go then? Flynn, Sessions and Al are 4 of our best talents, but don’t seem like natural fits for the offense.

The NBA really seems like a players league. It just seems counterintuitive to force a system on players.

by Blond Ricky on Nov 3, 2009 4:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But all teams adapt the system to the players to some extent

There’s give and take both ways because no team ever has the exact players they want to run a particular system.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Nov 3, 2009 5:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think the triangle focuses the offense on the wing position

So from that perspective, we don’t have the main ingredient and it would also explain why Kobe Brewer is taking so many shots.

by Mplax on Nov 3, 2009 5:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Great points Britt. It’s easy to get wrapped up in short-term thinking and not look at the big picture, but the Sessions/Flynn thing makes a lot more sense when viewed through that lens.

I am 100% happy that Pavs and Wilkens aren’t getting significant minutes, and that guys like Hollins and Ellington are. I’ve cried for player development for years, so it’s a relief and a pleasure to see it finally emphasized.

I’m also really looking forward to Love coming back. I can’t wait to watch him in that pinch post role dishing to cutters and popping jumpers.

When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

by Xand1 on Nov 3, 2009 1:37 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

The Triangle responsbile for defense?

After having the free preview for league pass this last week, I can’t help but be impressed the philosophy of the triangle. Many teams in the league run lots of isolations, low post feeds, and demand the PG break down the defense, but the Triangle seems to require all 5 guys getting involved in Offense. Big Al is not just being forced fed the ball down low and being told to score, he is having to pass, read the defense, and make smart basketball plays, and that has applied to all the players on the court. This has translated to improved assist numbers across the board for all Non Point Guards on the roster. I can’t help but notice that keeping all 5 guys involved on the offensive side of the court seems to make them more motivated to play defense.

by Ebomb on Nov 3, 2009 1:58 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

It could

Jackson’s best teams have been good defensively as well as offensively. There’s probably not a quantitative measure but it makes sense that it keeps players more into the game and able to make those spontaneous plays.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Nov 3, 2009 5:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

There's also your basic talent thang

Brewer’s that “disruptive” player defensively, and the marginal free agents Kahn added over the summer have some of the same traits. Damien Wilkins and Sasha Pavlovic are also defensively okay. Sessions can “get after it” (S-n-P says so) and Jonny Flynn’s been a decent rookie defensively at his size.

(One of the more undersold failings of the McHale regime was its inattention to defensive play. Mac hired Wittman to scold it out of guys like McCants, but you really wanna draft for it to some extent, and the Wolves weren’t doing that.)

by feral on Nov 3, 2009 6:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

One conclusion we can already make about Kahn .. He did some excellent free agent signing. Sessions is already widely recognized but I think Hollins was also a very good deal, especially since he seems to be able to knock down some shots.

Big Oily was funny in that he looks like an all star when his shot is dropping… I think the announcers of the Clips were correct in that a Big Man shooter is indeed a nice complement for Jefferson on the offense. Here’s hoping Love indeed gets his shot good.

Official Kahn/Rambis band-wagon rider since 2009

by Wim (Belgium) on Nov 3, 2009 2:41 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Agree 100% about Hollins. Raw as heck, but he has a good base to build on with his nice little jab-step jumper and his activity level.

When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

by Xand1 on Nov 3, 2009 2:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hollins has been a pleasant surprise

Gotta give some credit to Rambis for preparing young Mr. Hollins for this early season. When Love went down, the prospect of watching Ryan put up 4 fouls in the first half of every game was looking pretty likely.

by feral on Nov 3, 2009 6:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I’ve been happy with Hollins as well. Energy off the bench in a Madsen kind of way. He brings more though with his length and athletcism.

by Blond Ricky on Nov 5, 2009 7:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Did anyone see the Wolves Weekly?

With clips from inside the Wolves war room. It was fascinating. I learned a ton of new things…

1. We would have taken James Johnson with the #18 pick if he was available because Kahn claimed he was a top 5 talent.

2. You basically see Kahn admit that he took both Rubio and Flynn because he felt they were the only two with superstar potential, and then use the 2 point guard argument as strictly a marketing ploy. It really seemed like it was purely a play for more assets.

3. That one of 2 things happened. Either Kahn did not care at all about what anyone else in that war-room had to say about players, or Kahn at the very least wanted it to appear to the public that he had total control over everything. I say this assuming that Kahn had to approve of any video from the war room put on TV, which seems pretty standard.

Anyone else see it and get other impressions?

by Blakeley on Nov 3, 2009 3:06 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Good info, I hadn't heard this

Bust have suspected #2 all along. Thanks.

by Rumblebee on Nov 3, 2009 4:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Top 5 talent?

Seemed to me like he was Ryan Gomes v2.0

by Mplax on Nov 3, 2009 5:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

With the exeption of Hoiberg, I didn't see any management people in the room

No Stack, Babcock, obviously no coaches….my guess is all the others were PR or human resources people, so that’s probably why Kahn was more telling what was going to happen rather than asking for opinions.

I did hear him say Johnson was a top 5 talent though, and couldn’t disagree more.

by Oceanary on Nov 3, 2009 6:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Whose judgment would that be on Johnson?

Had to be Hoiberg and the existing scouting staff, didn’t it?

Kahn has never been primarily a talent guy, and he basically had a toothbrush in a drawer at Target Center as of draft night. Whatever talent assessments the Wolves were banking on, I have to think Hoibs was the guy feeding that to Kahn.

by feral on Nov 3, 2009 6:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Don’t know. Hoiberg’s never struck me as a guy who would overrate a draftee like that either. Maybe the team saw something we didn’t at one of the workouts or something.

by Oceanary on Nov 3, 2009 6:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Stack was there...

STack was the guy creepily clapping right next to Kahn after every draft pick. I also saw Jerry Sitchting, Glen Taylor (asking who Nick Calathes was and what team he was going to), but I didn’t see Babcock either.

One thing that I suppose shouldn’t be discounted is the fact that no front office people had actually secured jobs yet. It’s a little harder to blatantly disagree with your boss and say “two point guards, are you fucking insane!” when your job is on the line.

by Blakeley on Nov 4, 2009 6:16 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It was on at halftime of the Phx game as well

1. I’ve heard the rumor that we had the Flynn + Johnson deal in place with Sacramento for Tyreke Evans. I was hoping to see the clip again to try to determine if this footage where he said Johnson at #18 was really at the draft or if they did some film editing in there to not offend Flynn.

If we really are that high on Johnson, and Chicago really feels like they have a shot at LBJ or Wade or Bosh, they seem like our most likely trade partner before the trade deadline. I could see the following deal going down:
Luol Deng + James Johnson for Cardinal + Wilkins
Chicago sacrifices a bit this year to free up enough cap room for one of the big three
Minnesota takes on a long risky contract in Luol Deng, but he is really the type of wing player we are looking for and only need to give up expirings to get him and get one of our favorite players from the 2009 draft thrown in.

2. Yes – I found this interesting as well. I also found it interesting that Kahn was saying “not in a million years did I expect him (Rubio) to be there”.

3. I found it weird how calm the room was when they picked. It almost seemed like it was staged after the fact. There really wasn’t any discussion at this point. To paraphrase, Kahn just said, “OK heres what we’re going to do, we’re going to take Rubio at 5 to help with his buyout and take Flynn at 6 – unless someone knocks our socks off with a deal before then.”

I’m hoping to see this again – maybe someone will post it on youtube, or I can try to find a Wolves weekly re-run.

by Biff Cooper on Nov 3, 2009 5:12 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

If that Bulls trade happened

I would be one unhappy camper. And they better throw in Taj Gibson’s hustle to make me a little happier. Thats 5 years at 10M for Deng that he probably wont earn.

by Mplax on Nov 3, 2009 5:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't see what's so special about James Johnson

Ryan Gomes v2 is right. He’s a classic tweener, and doesn’t have any one standout skill. Just a bunch of solid ones.

The two guys I would have held out on with that #18 pick were Earl Clark and Austin Daye.

by Oceanary on Nov 3, 2009 6:34 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Deng..

is actually escalating, so 10.4 this year, followed by 11.3, 12.3, 13.4, 14.3. It’s pretty obvious he isn’t going to play up to that contract. However, I would value Deng at about 8-10 mil per year. I’m really trying to figure out right now what other assets Chicago would need to offer us in order to make up the difference in his value to what he’s getting paid. He is still only 24 years old, he’s a solid player both offensively and defensively, he’s 6’-9" and fairly athletic SF, he seems to be a good person, have a good work ethic, and a pretty good BBIQ. If he wasn’t on such a huge contract, he’d be exactly what we are looking for.
So does Deng + James Johnson + Taj Gibson for expirings work? Deng + James Johnson + 2010 1st? Deng + James Johnson + Taj + 2010 1st?

by Biff Cooper on Nov 3, 2009 7:03 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather have Tyrus Thomas than Johnson or Gibson

But I don’t want Deng at all. If we’re going to go for a high potential, relatively unproven small forward, Rudy Gay is a lot more interesting.

by Oceanary on Nov 3, 2009 7:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Deng & Gay

have similar offensive numbers, but Deng is currently far superior defensively. Also, Deng is only a year older than Gay. I am actually becoming OK with Gay, but I think he is best suited if we try to limit his game a bit – tell him to focus on defense, hit the open shot when he has it, try not to do too much on offense and let the game come to him rather than making his own offense. He doesn’t seem good enough to ever be a superstar, but he could become a boarderline all star.

However, you take the risk in free agency that Memphis matches or somebody else offers more than you are willing. Then you are stuck with the decision of what to do with your cap space.

Lets say we did Deng + Tyrus Thomas + Chicago 1st at the trade deadline then instead of including Johnson & Taj. We would then be over the cap and able to use our MLE to acquire another free agent. If we try to use the cap space to sign a free agent like Gay, that would be it. Glen Taylor may disagree because it’s more money out of his pocket, but personally, I would prefer:
Rudy Gay
or
Deng + Tyrus Thomas (resigned with our RFA rights) + Chicago 1st + a MLE free agent such as Anthony Morrow, Ronnie Brewer, Travis Outlaw, (or Pekovic)

by Biff Cooper on Nov 3, 2009 7:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

oops

flip it around – would prefer Deng, Thomas, Chicago 1st, + MLE FA to Gay

by Biff Cooper on Nov 3, 2009 7:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just really not willing to trade assets for Deng

He has a history of being injured and failing to meet expectations and that contract is enormous. The numbers are similar, but I really think Deng is about as good as he’s ever going to be. Rudy Gay still has a world of potential in him….trading for him now would cost us next to nothing. Signing him this summer would cost us just the money.

It kind of feels like last year when everyone was clamoring for a Kirk Hinrich trade. I mean, Kirk is a good player, but that would have been extremely expensive and Hinrich really is at his ceiling already.

I understand the feeling that we’ll never lure a free agent here, but I think in Gay’s case…I mean, as many negatives as there are with our location and mediocre history, we’re still in a worlds better situation than Memphis.

by Oceanary on Nov 3, 2009 7:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I object to never

right now, maybe not, but the future still has promise, right?? ;)

Timberwolves - NBA champs 2013!
(used with permission - Wolf in MO)

by frankenhoops on Nov 4, 2009 11:29 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How is Memphis giving up Gay for next to nothing?

Why take back only expirings for Gay when they could just let him leave as a FA. There’s no sense to them dealing him unless they’re getting something and as gunshy as they are about the Gasol screwup there’s no way they dump Gay for nothing.

They reportedly offered him $50 million over 5 years on an extension…that shows some strong interest? More than expirings anyway.

by Blond Ricky on Nov 5, 2009 7:52 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I’ve heard reports that those #‘s were incorrect. Don’t know much beyond that, however.

When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

by Xand1 on Nov 5, 2009 10:28 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Gay will be an RFA

I would guess any reasonable deal will be matched leaving overpaying as the option to get him. Rudy is headed to volume scorer who never took advantage of his considerable athletic gifts…I’m quite leery of paying him big money hoping he turns it around 4 years in.

by Blond Ricky on Nov 5, 2009 7:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If Memphis is willing to trade Gay for expirings before the trade deadline,

then I am not opposed to that deal. We would then have a trial run at him before we had to commit our RFA rights to matching an offer for him, and would then still have our MLE to use on Anthony Morrow, Ronnie Brewer, Travis Outlaw, (or Nickola Pekovic). If we wait until free agency for Gay, then we lose another way to add an additional young player with the MLE. Next offseason is all about maximizing the young talent we simultaneously have under contract. I think I still prefer the Deng deal however, depending on what additional assets we can get out of Chicago. Since this is the last time we are going to be under the salary cap for a while, the value of a Gay vs. a Deng salary really makes no difference in acquiring new players unless Glen Taylor is going to balk at paying the luxury tax. Deng’s injury history seems quite minor.

by Biff Cooper on Nov 3, 2009 8:35 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I just think Gay is better and has more upside. Deng’s never struck me as even having the potential to be a #1 scoring option. Although tonight probably isn’t the best night to say it.

by Oceanary on Nov 3, 2009 9:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

In no way do I project Deng to be a #1 scoring option.

In no way do I project Gay to be a #1 scoring option either though.

by Biff Cooper on Nov 3, 2009 10:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This is Gay’s 4th year. How much better will he get since he’s stagnated last year and is looking similar this year?

by Blond Ricky on Nov 5, 2009 7:53 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why would Memphis dump Gay for expirings?

by Blond Ricky on Nov 5, 2009 7:49 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Anybody checking out the Lakers-OKC game?

Just went to OT. OKC’s putting on the Lollapalooza of basketball brilliance while shooting airballs every other possession. If such a thing is possible.

by museum on Nov 3, 2009 9:30 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Well that was nuts. Durant airballs at the end of regulation and OT. Green and Sefolosha were both great. I can’t recall many performances that were so astonishingly all over the place. It’s like a death metal band comprised of black stallions. The raw force and brutal power are there, but they’re destroying their equipment and stampeding through the audience. You can’t take your eyes away and the press loves it.

by museum on Nov 3, 2009 9:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm more impressed by Dirk wasting the Jazz

And I mean WASTED the Jazz.

40 points, 11 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals, 5 blocks.

29….TWENTY NINE….points in the 4th quarter.

by Oceanary on Nov 3, 2009 9:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Brewers Physique

I know there has been some discussion about how skinny Corey is. Has anyone noticed how emaciated Durant looks? That kid is supermodel skinny. How long do you think he’ll play if he stays that thin?

Timberwolves - NBA champs 2013!
(used with permission - Wolf in MO)

by frankenhoops on Nov 4, 2009 11:33 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Remember how hard it was for Joe Smith to keep weight on?

There’s something about the 82 game schedule that makes it very hard for some players to add or even maintain there weight. A lot of it is variable from player to player though. There are certain players that really struggle with it. I remember people saying that Brewer will never be a truly good defender because of his weight and thinking that if Tayshaun Prince, who once looked terribly svelt, could be called a great defender, Corey Brewer could be too one day. According to their player bios though, Tayshaun is more than 20 lbs heavier than Brewer. That doesn’t seem like it’s perfectly correct, but I don’t know where to find more accurate numbers.

by oblivionspocket on Nov 4, 2009 3:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Deng and Gay

Maybe it’s just me, but it seems that we’re expecting a lot in the FA/trade market next year.

Throw in 2 previous first rounders to take Deng who’s still a productive player averaging 17/10 this year with good D?

Gay for expirings?

Maybe Chicago would incentivise us taking Deng’s contract, but how often does that happen for still productive players? Gasol to LA is the kind of deal we’re hoping for right if we end up using our cap space for trade and LA sent 2 late firsts to Memphis in that deal. Gasol wasn’t that hot of a commidity at that time. Assets get sent back (1st rounder in the Philly Carney deal) for players who don’t have much talent in order to take a contract.

by Blond Ricky on Nov 5, 2009 7:59 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

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