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Alternate Realities in the Timberwolves' Universe

Its_a_wonderful_life_1_medium

"Every man on that transport died! Harry wasn't there to save them, because you weren't there to save Harry." - Clarence the Angel

Now that Thanksgiving's over, it's ok to put up your Christmas lights (or winter decorations for any holiday you celebrate). In my family, it also means watching It's a Wonderful Life. If you hate America and therefore haven't seen it you can watch the whole thing here. Suffice to say that George Bailey is a man who runs into serious money problems and decides to jump off a bridge. But instead of plummeting to his death, Bailey is saved by Clarence the Angel. Clarence then does George a "solid" by showing him the world as if it had never been graced by George's presence.

Like Mr. Bailey, Wolves General Manager David Kahn has gotten some people angry with him as the team's 1-15 start has been softened only slightly by the recent win in Denver. After all, Kahn is the man responsible for acquiring 2/3 of the players on this year's roster. The criticism of Kahn includes, implicitly or explicitly, the assertion that the Wolves would be better off without some or all of the moves he made.

So to get us in the holiday spirit, let's consider life for the Timberwolves had this summer gone differently (whether David Kahn exists or not is immaterial at this point, so the tie-in to It's a Wonderful Life weakens... let's just move one). 

What follows are scenarios of varying plausibility with the corresponding win shares (defined here) and contract commitments (see here for details on options and such).

Thanks, as always, to Basketball-Reference.com for being the best stats site for the NBA. And for more Wolves What Ifs, check out Mike's recent post at TWolvesBlog. Thanks to Mike for getting me to finish my earlier draft of this post.

[EDIT: Not sure why I had the record wrong, thanks commenters.]

Star-divide

Before diving into rampant speculation, it's worth talking a bit about what they're based on: win shares. Did you read the linked explanation? If you're unfamiliar with win shares, do it. The biggest caveat mentioned in that article is attributing team success to individual players doesn't necessarily work. This is an obvious problem in the scenarios below, as Shelden Williams is one of the biggest win producers. Do  you think Williams earned his 1.2 wins all by his lonesome, or is it possible Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Rajon Rondo, Rasheed Wallace and Kendrick Perkins might help Williams' win share production? Right. Likewise, Corey Brewer's -0.3 win shares could be explained largely by his logging the most minutes on a team with only two wins, or it could be that the team only has two wins because Corey's playing so much. Such is the nature of win shares.

Current Roster

Here we sit after a whirlwind offseason, a couple quality players worth building around, some expiring contracts, some future picks, the rights to Ricky Rubio, and 2 measly wins. The future's bright, but the present is a complete downer.

Al Jefferson 0.7 $12,000,000 $13,000,000 $14,000,000 $15,000,000
Ramon Sessions 0.5 $3,670,667 $3,964,320 $4,257,974 $4,970,000
Ryan Gomes 0.4 $3,867,500 $4,235,000 $4,602,500 $4,970,000
Nathan Jawai 0.3 $736,420
Oleksiy Pecherov 0.3 $1,547,640
Ryan Hollins 0.3 $2,183,333 $2,333,333 $2,483,333
Brian Cardinal 0.1 $6,750,000
Damien Wilkins 0.1 $3,630,000
Jason Hart 0.0 $825,497
Jonny Flynn -0.1 $2,969,280 $3,192,000 $3,414,720 $4,329,865 RFA
Corey Brewer -0.3 $2,916,120 $3,703,472 RFA
Sasha Pavlovic -0.3 $1,500,000
Wayne Ellington -0.4 $1,003,560 $1,078,800 $1,154,040 $2,083,042 RFA
Kevin Love n/a $3,401,040 $3,638,280 $4,609,701 RFA
Mark Blount n/a $7,967,375
(Antonio Daniels) n/a $5,863,580
(Chucky Atkins) n/a $760,000
Total 1.6 $61,592,012 $35,145,206 $34,522,268 $30,934,534 $0

 

Alternate Universe 1

The trades with Washington or the LA Clippers never happened, nor was Ty Lawson traded to Denver. The the same picks at #6, #18 and #28 were made. In free agency the Wolves held on to Shelden Williams, Kevin Ollie, and Rodney Carney, but let Jason Collins walk. Facing roster glut, Bobby Brown and Mark Madsen were cut. This was in spite of Brown's superior performance to Corey Brewer and Wayne Ellington thus far due to financial commitments.

Shelden Williams 1.2 $825,497
Ty Lawson 1.0 $1,438,680 $1,546,560 $1,654,440 $2,544,529 RFA
Mike Miller 0.9 $9,780,937
Craig Smith 0.8 $2,300,000
Al Jefferson 0.7 $12,000,000 $13,000,000 $14,000,000 $15,000,000
Ryan Gomes 0.4 $3,867,500 $4,235,000 $4,602,500 $4,970,000
Kevin Ollie 0.4 $825,497
Rodney Carney 0.4 $825,497
Sebastian Telfair 0.4 $2,500,000 $2,700,000
Randy Foye 0.2 $3,575,761 RFA
Brian Cardinal 0.1 $6,750,000
Jonny Flynn -0.1 $2,969,280 $3,192,000 $3,414,720 $4,329,865 RFA
Corey Brewer -0.3 $2,916,120 $3,703,472 RFA
Wayne Ellington -0.4 $1,003,560 $1,078,800 $1,154,040 $2,083,042 RFA
Kevin Love n/a $3,401,040 $3,638,280 $4,609,701 RFA
(Mark Madsen) n/a $2,840,000
(Bobby Brown) n/a $736,420
Total 5.7 $58,555,789 $33,094,112 $29,435,401 $28,927,436 $0

 

Maintaining last year's roster may have improved the team's record to 6-11, but the franchise won't be players in next year's free agency bonanza (unless they let Miller, Smith, Foye and others walk for nothing) and there are four players (Ollie, Flynn, Lawson and Telfair) who require minutes at the point. They also don't have Ricky Rubio's rights and you may notice that they're actually committed less salary in this scenario than in reality. It's not a huge improvement in the win column, but it's an improvement none the less and the future is still rather bright. But we can do better.

Alternate Universe 2

In this scenario, the trades with Washington, the Clippers or Denver still don't go down and the Wolves have draft magic that allow them to draft the player with the most win shares from amongst the pool of available players (with this method, their 2nd round picks would have been AJ Price and Lester Hudson. Each has a win share equal to Brian Cardinal and therefore wouldn't have improved this scenario). Free agency, as before, brings back Williams, Ollie and Carney and shuns Collins. Madsen and Brown are cut.

Brandon Jennings (#6) 1.4 $2,969,280 $3,192,000 $3,414,720 $4,329,865 RFA
Shelden Williams 1.2 $825,497
Ty Lawson (#18) 1.0 $1,438,680 $1,546,560 $1,654,440 $2,544,529 RFA
Mike Miller 0.9 $9,780,937
Craig Smith 0.8 $2,300,000
Al Jefferson 0.7 $12,000,000 $13,000,000 $14,000,000 $15,000,000
DeJuan Blair (#28) 0.7 $1,003,560 $1,078,800 $1,154,040 $2,083,042 RFA
Ryan Gomes 0.4 $3,867,500 $4,235,000 $4,602,500 $4,970,000
Kevin Ollie 0.4 $825,497
Rodney Carney 0.4 $825,497
Sebastian Telfair 0.4 $2,500,000 $2,700,000
Randy Foye 0.2 $3,575,761 RFA
Brian Cardinal 0.1 $6,750,000
Corey Brewer -0.3 $2,916,120 $3,703,472 RFA
Kevin Love n/a $3,401,040 $3,638,280 $4,609,701 RFA
(Mark Madsen) n/a $2,840,000
(Bobby Brown) n/a $736,420
Total 8.3 $58,555,789 $33,094,112 $29,435,401 $28,927,436 $0

 

8.3 wins ain't too shabby, bringing the Wolves' to an 8-9 record. This scenario presents the same 2010 free agency problem as the previous one, but the future is a tad brighter with Jennings, Lawson and Blair instead of Flynn, Ellington and a future 1st. The point guard glut also still exists, merely swapping Jennings for Flynn. I know what you're thinking: we can do better. And you're right. 

Alternate Universe 3

Corey Brewer's win share total of -0.3 is the worst among all players considered in this experiment, so forget his option and cut him. Ramon Sessions and Ryan Hollins, on the other hand, are in the top 14 in win shares for all of the considered players, so they're worth using the MLE on. Unfortunately, that means eating Brian Cardinal's salary, in addition to Madsen and Brown. But, hey, we're in this for wins, right?

Brandon Jennings (#6) 1.4 $2,969,280 $3,192,000 $3,414,720 $4,329,865 RFA
Shelden Williams 1.2 $825,497
Ty Lawson 1.0 $1,438,680 $1,546,560 $1,654,440 $2,544,529 RFA
Mike Miller 0.9 $9,780,937
Craig Smith 0.8 $2,300,000
Al Jefferson 0.7 $12,000,000 $13,000,000 $14,000,000 $15,000,000
DeJuan Blair (#28) 0.7 $1,003,560 $1,078,800 $1,154,040 $2,083,042 RFA
Ramon Sessions 0.5 $3,670,667 $3,964,320 $4,257,974 $4,970,000
Ryan Gomes 0.4 $3,867,500 $4,235,000 $4,602,500 $4,970,000
Kevin Ollie 0.4 $825,497
Rodney Carney 0.4 $825,497
Sebastian Telfair 0.4 $2,500,000 $2,700,000
Ryan Hollins 0.3 $2,183,333 $2,333,333 $2,483,333
Randy Foye 0.2 $3,575,761 RFA
Kevin Love n/a $3,401,040 $3,638,280 $4,609,701 RFA
(Brian Cardinal) n/a $6,750,000
(Corey Brewer) n/a $2,916,120

(Mark Madsen) n/a $2,840,000
(Bobby Brown) n/a $736,420
Total 9.3 $64,409,789 $35,688,293 $36,176,708 $33,897,436 $0

 

This is the most expensive of the scenarios and the 2010 free agency problem remains. In fact, the Wolves eat $9.6 million more than in the previous scenario and only gain 1 win (9-8). That's probably not something that would impress Glen Taylor or fans. And, stop me if you've heard this before, but the team's got Jennings, Lawson, Sessions, Ollie and Telfair seeking minutes at point guard. That is, at least, if you want to reap their win shares in the total.

These alternate realities may be attractive to fans concerned about the win column, since a 2-15 start does little to build excitement for the current season. But there are some fatal flaws in calling Kahn's summer a bust this. First, you probably noticed that picking the best player at each opportunity in the draft is highly unlikely. Moreover, it's far too early to determine which rookies were better picks. I've also pointed out the point guard glut that a reliance on win shares creates. Lastly, another flaw with the Win-share-way-back-machine Model (that's trademarked, by the way) arises from the depth chart: the sum of minutes needed by each player to achieve their win share is likely higher than minutes available.

Even if David Kahn had made what appear now to be the right moves, the Wolves would be about a .500 team, they'd be out of the 2010 free agency class, they wouldn't have the rights to Ricky Rubio, they wouldn't have enough minutes to go around to an unbalanced roster, and they look like a team whose peak is the Western Conference Semifinals.

If that doesn't make you feel better, go watch It's a Wonderful Life and curse that evil Mr. Potter.

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Comments

Display:

This is a good, neat summary of what we've mostly thought all along:

Kahn’s moves hurt the team’s record a bit now, but allowed the potential for much greater success next year and beyond.

I do think that we’ve all lost sight of that plan (and maybe justifiably) because of just how awful this year really is. But really, Kahn all but said when he was hired that this year simply doesn’t matter long-term. And at the time, everyone was okay with that. But I don’t think anyone expected 2-15.

by LoveTo on Dec 1, 2009 6:50 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Great Article..

This is what I’ve been thinking… Just be patient Wolves fans—we’re on the right track

by SF on Dec 1, 2009 7:29 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Miller, Foye

Foye – < 6 minutes PT tonight, Miller DNP

I am very happy we have the rights to Rubio!

by PoohRubio on Dec 1, 2009 8:36 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Boykins

Yes, for those lamenting the loss of Foye, note that Washington is giving Earl Boykins the majority of the minutes. Ouch.

by littleboxes on Dec 1, 2009 11:24 PM CST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

That trade misaligned Washington's roster

We sent them wings, but did nothing to clear out what’s become a clutter of SG types on their roster as a result. Foye’s actually played the fifth-most minutes on their roster (due to Jamison’s early injury status, granted). He’s just stuck amid a bunch of scoring guard-type talent, and they’ve wisely decided (again, because the NBA likes to re-make this determination every year) that he’s not really a point.

"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."

by feral on Dec 2, 2009 4:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

9-8 with jennings 2-15 with flynn...

I think we could of made the playoffs this year since 9 and 8 would tie us for 8 spot at least with love playing maybe 10-7 or 11-6…
 signed gay next summer back on track to be a contender in 2011.

by KahningPups on Dec 1, 2009 8:48 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Wrong.

We would be hurting with Jennings too. Jennings would be struggling to adapt to the triangle, and Rambis wouldn’t be letting him run pick and roll and otherwise play to his strengths, just as with Flynn. BTW, that’s some nice wishful thinking, magically making Love’s hand injury disappear with a few keystrokes.

by nextmove on Dec 1, 2009 9:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes wishful but still 9-8 seem not too far fetched on paper

figgure two
 Love injury culprit pech is not on our roster. so no injury :)
further Rambis would have 3 players that could start as pg in the triangle
the key to the triangle at pg is 3 point shooting a flynn weakness that he needs to address
 since Jennnings .500 average I assumed he would start here even with lower assist because of the system he would be better than flynn so far. Plus lawson could start if he sucks.
I know last roster sucked but I think adding Jennings and Blair to Flynn and Ellington
is plus 2.3 wins right there :)
Jennings, Lawson or Telfair could starter with all positive win share totals unfortunately Flynn has a negative win total.
we would get gay because our roster would be cheaper assuming foye does not resign.
just saying I like the second Alternate universe.

by KahningPups on Dec 2, 2009 1:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Would Rambis be here for scenario #4

or would McHale still be head coach? No triangle??

by Rumblebee on Dec 2, 2009 6:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wrong.

We would be hurting with Jennings too. Jennings would be struggling to adapt to the triangle, and Rambis wouldn’t be letting him run pick and roll and otherwise play to his strengths, just as with Flynn. BTW, that’s some nice wishful thinking, magically making Love’s hand injury disappear with a few keystrokes.

by nextmove on Dec 1, 2009 9:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why stop with these scenarios?

You can take the alternate universe idea to any level, but it doesn’t change the universe in which we currently reside. (And one can nit pick your alternate choices ad infinitum. I wouldn’t see Kevin Ollie in any TWolves universe. And I don’t know why we would still be so guard fixated, or that Ramon Sessions would choose to sign with us.) What I can see is that we are currently awful. I can’t see any free agent worth his salt signing with us. I doubt our two/three Euro-stashes will ever play for us, either. This team will improve through the draft and the maturation of their current roster. And neither of those occurrences is a sure thing.

by ogishkemuncie on Dec 1, 2009 10:54 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

there are absolutely a million different alternate universe's

and i’d welcome discussing any other scenario that anyone thinks would’ve put the wolves in a better long-term state than they are currently.

as i commented below, this is about recognizing that things aren’t so bad right now. and i don’t think the opportunities the wolves had to get the highest team win share possible to this point would’ve been worth sacrificing the future that kahn’s laid out.

re: the free agents, i think ramon sessions and ryan hollins are both worth their salt. it’s not sure thing that they’ll be with the team long-term, nor are they franchise changers. but things like teammates, facilities, and strong leadership are what attract free agents. kahn has upgraded all of those things for minnesota.

lastly, i’m not sure why you’re so doubtful rubio or pekovic will play for the wolves. if they ever want to play in the nba (which rubio clearly does) they’ll either play for the wolves or get us something in return via trade.

i concur about the draft and maturation road, but they’re never a sure thing. what i am more sure of, though, is that the team, as constructed last year was never going to be a championship team.

we are closer to a championship with kahn’s overhaul than we would’ve been maintaining the status quo.

www.canishoopus.com

by wyn on Dec 2, 2009 10:04 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I like the analysis

The last 2 statements get me though.

“i concur about the draft and maturation road, but they’re never a sure thing. what i am more sure of, though, is that the team, as constructed last year was never going to be a championship team.”

Absolutely agree. But then

“we are closer to a championship with kahn’s overhaul than we would’ve been maintaining the status quo.”

is a statement that I just don’t share. We are definitely going backwards in hopes of taking bigger leaps forward. I am not philosophically opposed to that. But the options created are not a sure thing. So, I think it is a stretch to say we are getting closer. I think a more fair statement would be that neither last year’s, nor this year’s, roster puts us in the ballpark of competing to win a championship. Which leaves us to debate the wisdom of the incremental improvement in assets vs the step back in current talent. (Everyone knows my position on that)

After all, we are still dependent on 2 things – 1) the ability of Kahn and others to make wise choices and 2) luck. Yep – luck. We will need a superstar, top 50 all time type player to get to be a championship team. That is not coming via free agency – that will need to come from the draft. So, will we be lucky and get the top 2 pick in a 2 deep draft or get the #3 instead? (Laettner) This things happen – unfortunately more to us than anyone else.

Did Kahn’s moves increase our chances of being lucky? I hope so.

by Just A Fan on Dec 2, 2009 10:26 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't forget trades

Here’s the list of All-Stars who’ve been traded for quarters on the dollar in the last decade: T-Mac, Carter, KG, Billups, Shaq (early Miami Shaq), Iverson, Allen, Gasol, Baron Davis, Caron Butler, Jason Kidd.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Dec 2, 2009 4:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Would McHale still be coaching

in your version of scenario #4?

by Rumblebee on Dec 2, 2009 6:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

these "what if?" posts are getting really frustrating.

…the reality is what it is…let’s post about that instead.

by davechisholm on Dec 2, 2009 12:13 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I'd argue...

That this is a post about reality. Wyn’s point is that you can be frustrated about the current product on the floor, but it’s most likely a necessary evil if we wanted any chance at long term growth.

by Blakeley on Dec 2, 2009 8:03 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i agree that what if posts/comments/discussions are frustrating

reading posts, comments and articles about how stupid kahn’s summer was are more frustrating to me, though. so i chose to illustrate that alternatives to the present state wouldn’t necessarily be that much rosier.

but, as blakely alludes to, there are ways i could’ve been more direct with my point.

this year has been frustrating and disappointing for players and fans alike, but what did we as fans expect with all the hedging kahn did on his moves this summer?

www.canishoopus.com

by wyn on Dec 2, 2009 9:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What, which movie did you want?

Did you desire a post based on “It Happened One Night,” in which Kahn woos a free agent like Clark Gable won over Claudette Colbert?

"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."

by feral on Dec 2, 2009 4:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Putting aside the reasons we took Flynn at 6

Under these alternate universes would we really take Lawson at 18 after taking Jennings at 6? Neither had the hype of Rubio coming into the draft. The position duplication makes even less sense.

I wonder how it would look with Claver, Casspi or Mullens taken at 18?

Judd: "...I've since watched some Steven Seagal movies and I realise that pressure points are no laughing matter.".

by Auswolf on Dec 2, 2009 2:14 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Casspi has 0.6 win shares

and Claver and Mullens haven’t played at all.

So, with Casspi instead of Lawson at #18 it could’ve been 8.9 win shares.

There are absolutely flaws in the scenarios, but I was aiming for the maximum wins over anything.

www.canishoopus.com

by wyn on Dec 2, 2009 10:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Claver is still in Spain, isn't he?

And I thought he said before the draft he didn’t want to be taken in the first round because he’d be bound by the rookie scale. Wouldn’t surprise me if he comes after Rubio does.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Dec 2, 2009 4:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Great look. Honestly, the Wolves need to suck for a while in order to improve. No one likes watching what’s going on right now, but it’ll end. Eventually.

by Vic De Zen on Dec 2, 2009 10:03 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Great Analysis

My preferred alternative universe looks a little different.

I don’t do the Washington trade.

I hire Rambis before the draft.

I get Curry at 6, Mullins at 18 and Ellington.

I don’t bring back Carney, Williams or Ollie.

I do make the Telfair, Smith, Madsen for Richardson Trade but I don’t make the Richardson for Blunt trade.

I do sign Sessions and Hollins

So my roster is Foye, Curry, Sessions, Miller, Richardson, Brewer, Al, Love, Hollins, Mullins, Gomes, Cardinal, Ellington + a free agent signing,

I don’t have the talents to make the table that you’ve made. Would you be willing to do it for me? Thanks!

by Just A Fan on Dec 2, 2009 10:42 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I wish there was an EDIT key

Part of the reason I do this, is I am convinced that at the Trade Deadline – Miller and/or Richardson would have great value to either a 1) team in contention that needs a specialist piece or 2) a team that needs to dump salary. I think we get some great assets back. Meanwhile, we get to use their talents while putting our younger players in better development roles this year.

by Just A Fan on Dec 2, 2009 10:47 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

BJ Mullens

I don’t know much about Mullens, i know that he was the only other C in last years draft besides Thabeet. Yes i know we need a center but the Thunder have one of the worst starting C’s in the NBA in Nenad Krystic and havn’t played Mullens once, also i don’t even think he started in College, so why would we want him? I also think that Flynn is a better player then Curry but i do agree that Curry would fit the Triangle better, so ya i would either say run a dif offence or draft Curry instead of Flynn.

by JacobA on Dec 2, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Krystic

Im not saying he is a bad player, just saying he is one of the worst starting C’s in the NBA, honestly name 5 starting C’s who are worse, maybe McDysse, Chuck Hayes, and Samy D but besides that i dono, plus there are some backup C’s who i think are better like Birdman, Rasheed, Przbilla, and maybe Big Z, Brad Miller, and Gortat, plus when Blake Griffen comes back (if he starts at PF) then Camby to.

by JacobA on Dec 2, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Truthfully

Mullins might not develop. But it would set up a great competition between him and Hollins for playing time while allowing us to get better insight on just exactly what type of 5 we need to have if we keep both Love and Al as part of our key players to build around.

by Just A Fan on Dec 2, 2009 1:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So in other words, Glen Taylor isn't your owner
My preferred alternative universe looks a little different.

I don’t do the Washington trade.

I hire Rambis before the draft….

I disagree about the Washington trade based both on talent and on cap considerations, but leave that aside. Kahn was just off the boat on draft night, having only been hired himself that afternoon. We might want him to have had a coach in hand, but really the only realistic option then would’ve been to keep McHale on.

"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."

by feral on Dec 2, 2009 4:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno man. Now you are arguing that rookies learn best by being on the bench. I just don’t buy it. What we have now is, a lot of minutes for our young players.

by Dave T on Dec 2, 2009 11:08 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I am arguing

that rookies develop best when used in situation that maximizes their chances for having some success. For example, I believe that a rookie playing 20 minutes a game against 2nd teamers with success is better than a rookie playing 32 minutes against 1st liners and getting their heads bashed in.

A lot of basketball (any sport really) is confidence. Rookies that are asked to do too much, too soon, usually suffer from a lack of confidence.

by Just A Fan on Dec 2, 2009 1:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

While I agree in theory

Arenas’ story doesn’t. I remember him talking about how he went up against Gary Payton his rookie year and just being scared as sh!t and I think he even said he got beat up a bit that game too, but he turned out pretty good. And I’d be surprised if this was the only game it happened to him. And while there are obviously exceptions to the rule, I think there needs to be a happy medium between the two. Protecting a guy from reality too much is gonna hurt in the long run, but throwing a guy to the lions won’t do it either (unless he proves he can handle it).

by Mplax on Dec 3, 2009 1:27 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It all comes down to Rubio.....

All of the old Wolves players Kahn traded away, where on last year off deal, except Bassy. When you add in Hollins and Sessions, Wolves have less money next summer than standing pat. What value does Rubio have in the league? I don’t know the answer to that. I’ve seen him 3 times this year on NBATV, very unassuming play at best, the games I saw. He’s not a shooter that much was evident. Kahn talked about adding/needing a superstar, I got the impression that he felt he had one in Flynn and Rubio after the draft. Too early to say no on Flynn, but I’d like to see him make better decisions and simple point guard plays to give me hope that he can be special……. So it comes down to Rubio to be special or trade him for something special or else all this suffering is for nothing.

by Conned on Dec 2, 2009 11:55 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Expirings

in my scenario the wolves would still have

Richardson at $9,352,500
Miller at $9,750,000
Cardinal at $6,750,000

Coming off the books. That is still quite a bit of money if we choose to accept them as expiring contracts rather than trade some for assets.

From what I have seen of Rubio on NBA TV, I think he is a star player in the right system, but not necessarily a player to structure a franchise around.

by Just A Fan on Dec 2, 2009 1:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What did you see

that said star to you on Rubio? I saw a guy who turned down shot after shot to move ball on to less open players than himself. Rubio plays hard and has good vision, but I didn’t see the quickness to beat Euro league guards much less NBA players.

by Conned on Dec 2, 2009 3:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

My question is -

If Love DOESN"T get hurt at the beginning of the year, how many wins would we have? I know that we have lamented not having him around for some of these games, but are we as despondant if we are 5-12 or 6-11? I think not. Am I overrvalueing Love to this team, possibly, but having him softens the blow of not having a 100% Jefferson also. I did not expect 2 wins after 17 games, and I don’t project that they will only win 15 games this year, either. Jefferson is getting better, Love will be back (as one of my fantasy trading partners said, “Love is injured, not dead!”), Flynn and Ellington will get better as they get used to the competition. We all knew this was a growing season, so let’s remain positive and not let some of these nay-sayers get under our skin.

Nice piece, by the way, Wyn. I enjoyed it immensely. We knew what we had with last years team. This team is still a work in progress. GO WOLVES!!

Timberwolves - NBA champs 2013!
(used with permission - Wolf in MO)

by frankenhoops on Dec 2, 2009 12:27 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Not a nay-sayer

but the fact that this team is a terrible shooting team (with or without Love) will be the reason they lose this year. When AL gets going, he’ll see double teams steady without anybody to make them pay. Neither Sessions or Flynn are shooters, they need driving lanes and shooters to spread floor to give them space to attack rim. Best shooter on team from 16’ is Hollins. Just don’t think that Love can make up the -13 point differential per game the team is suffering after almost a 1/4 of season is in the books. Love will help a great deal but for 1 guy to make up a double digit average in point differential is monumental. They will be more fun to watch though.

by Conned on Dec 2, 2009 4:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

no but the extra 5 rebound he will get versus anyone else

should be about 5 points in the wolves favor. His shooting can’t be worse so be might get another point or two with him versus without him. That is half of that gap and in the handful of game where we were right there…it becomes a win and a completely different outlook on the team.

by TheEvilProfessor on Dec 3, 2009 11:54 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Dream large

Apparently our “alternate universe” ideas need to be complete do-overs, and not confine themselves to things like Jefferson or Love not suffering injuries. Get with the program!

"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."

by feral on Dec 2, 2009 5:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It bothers me how much difficulty Flynn has finishing at the rim. I would’ve expected him to figure it out by now. I do think he’s improved on it though.

by NugNugz on Dec 2, 2009 12:28 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Did you expect to him to shoot 100% near the hoop? This is the first I’ve heard of him struggling to finish. Subjectively I’d consider him well above average for a 6’ guard in this area.

When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

by Xand1 on Dec 2, 2009 12:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

In what I’ve seen, Flynn has done well around the basket. Much better than Telfair ever did, and this in his first month as a pro.

by Andy G on Dec 2, 2009 12:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not unrealistic. but i’d be curious to see what is percentage is around the hoop. tony parker and steve nash are both above 50% and neither have Flynn’s athleticism

by NugNugz on Dec 2, 2009 12:34 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

NBA hotspots

http://www.nba.com/hotspots/

Flynn 45/80 56.3%
Parker 47/80 58.8% (a little lower than typical for him)
Nash 32/49 65.3%
Jennings 42/97 43.3%
Evans 69/138 50.0%
Devin Harris last year 55.3%

So, not bad for a rook.

Because there are no fours.
Toine

by CaliWolf on Dec 2, 2009 12:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't know where to get those

would you mind giving us CP3’s for this year and last year? He is having an out of this world season as far as shooting goes. Too bad he got injured.

by Mplax on Dec 3, 2009 1:31 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The link has it all

CP3 this year 24/42 57.1%
        last year 281/467 60.2%

Parker last year 399/668 59.7%

Somebody probably has he numbers split into bunny jumpers, uncontested layups, in traffic, etc. It seems incredible to credit Parker with 8 close attempts per game.

Because there are no fours.
Toine

by CaliWolf on Dec 3, 2009 10:53 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh I missed the link completely

I would have thought Paul would have been higher this year, maybe its just cuz he is bombing from outside.

by Mplax on Dec 4, 2009 12:42 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Those guys are also two of the best PG’s in the league, and in Parker’s case, probably the single best finisher under 6’3 in the entire NBA. Not sure what you’re going for here. I’d wager the stats back up that Flynn is a pretty darn good finisher near the hoop. His errant 3pt shots are what is dragging down his FG%.

When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

by Xand1 on Dec 2, 2009 12:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Tony Freaking Parker?

Tony Parker for his career has been legendarily good at finishing around the hoop for a short guard. Steve Nash took years to work on that. You’re asking a bit much, I think.

Flynn’s problems are, and are going to be, more to do with having an outside shot that keeps defenders honest.

"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."

by feral on Dec 2, 2009 5:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Forget

his finishing at rim or jump shot it’s his 1/1 ast/to rate that should concern everyone. Foye had over a 2/1 ast/to ratio as a rookie and the feeling was he couldn’t play point. Flynn will have to improve in this area big time.

by Conned on Dec 2, 2009 5:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hard to argue much

Even on a team with no shooters to speak of, Flynn’s assist numbers haven’t been impressive.

That’s not what this post was about, however. (And frankly, your troll nickname doesn’t strike me as indicating that you can see straight anyway.)

"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."

by feral on Dec 2, 2009 7:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't pull the troll card yet

he has had some decent posts around here that I have seen. Most of them negative (then again most posts are now adays), but with at least a bit of thought in each one.
I would definitely give Flynn more time though, both his assists and his turnovers have gotten better the last few games.

by Mplax on Dec 3, 2009 1:33 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I dig the reality check. It’s going to be a long season, but that’s basically been what we knew going into it.

by edkohler on Dec 2, 2009 6:54 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I like the way things were out all things considered, however...

…If I could do an alternative scenario it would be trading #6 and #18 to Sacramento, make everyone think Rubio is the Wolves choice, then select Tyreke Evans. Was it possible, we’ll never know.

by Rumblebee on Dec 2, 2009 7:04 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

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