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Around SBN: Pacquiao vs Bradley: Potential Undercard Fighters

Is there anything we can do?

 

Witness


the most egregious superstar call in the history of superstar calls.  (First 1:00 of the video should be all you need.)

How big of a deal is this?  Am I overreacting?  What is the best way for us, the fans of small-market, perpetually screwed over NBA franchises to respond to this? 

Free agency isn't fair (Shaq forces his way to LA, Malone, Payton, Artest take major discounts to come there), trades aren't fair (Kareem, Kobe, Pau traded in lopsided deals), the Playoffs aren't fair ('02 Kings screwed out of a Title), and neither are regular season games.

I would like to see some sort of major gesture made by fed-up fans.  Some proposals I've seen elsewhere were to wear paper bags or makeshift Marc Davis/Tim Donaughy/Kobe masks to games, converging en masse on the next LA Laker game and staging a synchronized walkout upon the first bogus Kobe call, boycotting NBA products, or looking to Bill Simmons or Mark Cuban for leadership in organizing a grassroots movement to fix this.  What else can we, as fans, do to demonstrate our disapproval?

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Not sure what to do...

But the NBA has a serious credibility problem.

One idea:

On average how many members are on each NBA team’s SB nation blog? A few hundred or so? I have no idea. But these are clearly the NBA’s biggest fans. Perhaps these blogs should coordinate a petition to be delivered to Stern’s office demanding a serious look at the objectivity of officiating. If 5000 -10,000 of the NBA’s biggest fans spoke with one voice on this subject, I imagine the commissioner’s office would take notice.

by TWolvesFanInLA on Dec 17, 2009 1:53 AM CST reply actions  

Larry Brown

Coincidentally, I just read this bit from the Charlotte Observer…a vocal high profile coach or two would have a huge impact.

Brown: Refs treat superstars differently

I’m not at all surprised Charlotte Bobcats coach Larry Brown thinks superstars are treated differently by referees. I was mildly surprised he’d be quite this direct describing the phenomenon. This happened Saturday night in the pre-game media availability. You might have seen Brown’s quotes about how inconsistently NBA refs enforce rules regarding illegal screens and zones (the defensive 3-second rule). Brown said certain NBA players get liberties while dribbling that others don’t.

by TWolvesFanInLA on Dec 17, 2009 2:11 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm sure the NBA is hearing about this

Because everywhere I check, every NBA board, blog, forum, etc, is lit up with complaints about not just that call, but that whole game’s officiating. Even ESPN writers are commenting on it.

Whether that means the NBA will do something about it, or we can force them to do something about it, I don’t know.

by Oceanary on Dec 17, 2009 2:33 AM CST reply actions  

Update:

Here’s a link to a 25 page thread on the RealGM Milwaukee Bucks board discussing the call. You can read through it, but it won’t make you any less angry; I already tried.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=968378

by John Doe on Dec 17, 2009 3:21 AM CST reply actions  

One terrible call deserves another.

Time to hop into the WABAC machine, Mr. Peabody: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTKxxsDuDas

You were a daydreamer, a sass-mouth, and, not infrequently, a bit of a gigglepuss. Somehow I doubt twenty years of amphetamines and failure have done anything to improve that.

by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on Dec 17, 2009 6:24 AM CST reply actions  

Maybe some one can get

Kobe to admit that he wasn’t actually fouled? probably not thow. the NBA, where Truth doesn’t happen.

Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?

by the Real Thor on Dec 17, 2009 6:31 AM CST reply actions  

Couple things about that game

I was watching the 4th quarter and OT. As an aside, the Bucks missed a bunch of free throws late, including 2 just before the play at issue, that would have won the game for them.

Still, that’s not an excuse for that call, which was really egregious. What was bad about it was that the ref who was supposed to make the call got paralyzed—he knew it should go the other way, but he just couldn’t pull the trigger on making that call against Kobe. So another official jumped in and rescued him with the block call.

I don’t know whether the league encourages this sort of thing or not; but I don’t think it has much to do with market size. Kobe just happens to be a Laker. The Spurs have done fine recently, Lebron gets his calls in Cleveland—it’s a star driven game and the refs reward the stars.

by Eric in Madison on Dec 17, 2009 7:15 AM CST reply actions  

You shouldn't rationalize it like that.

“Oh they could have done this, they could have done that…” No. They did everything they needed to do to win. The rules say you need to win by one, not by one against Minnesota, by three against the Lakers.

If Bogut hits the free throw to go up one, who says we don’t get a phantom foul call on Kobe’s miss at the buzzer?

by John Doe on Dec 17, 2009 12:09 PM CST up reply actions  

As I said, that was an aside

it was a terrible call that absolutely cost the Bucks the game. Inexcusable.

by Eric in Madison on Dec 17, 2009 1:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Although I still think it is more than likely a charge

Bogut is still moving at the last second into Kobe. He sets up for the charge and then moves his left foot and shifts towards Kobe to better be able to take a charge. He wasn’t just standing there like a wall; he moved enough for me to see how the refs may be confused. That being said, I still think that call was too favorable to Kobe and I’d be more inclined to give it to Bogut for being there just long enough.

by nja700 on Dec 17, 2009 8:21 AM CST reply actions  

According to the rules

Set feet isn’t a prerequisite of every drawn charge. In a case as blatant as this, whether one of Bogut’s feet was only 90% set is inconsequential relative to how obvious it was that Kobe was out of control slamming into him while he held a legal defensive position. Feet don’t even enter the conversation.

by John Doe on Dec 17, 2009 12:14 PM CST up reply actions  

That’s far from the worst call I’ve seen. Honestly Bogut looks like he may have flopped a bit, and Kobe doesn’t appear out of control to me either. I expected more out of that clip. I cop to being a bit of a Laker sympathizer (not a fan, a sympathizer) just because I have a thing for the city, but I just don’t think that was terrible. Also, I’m not sure what the rules say exactly, but if one of the things we’d like to see is more consistency out of the refs regardless of whose hands the ball is in, what the feet are doing and whether or not they’re in the restricted zone seems to be the best chance at finding sanity in their decisions in a block/charge situation. So to say you can just throw that out of the equation seems off base when they’ve made it a custom to consider it for as long as I can remember.

by museum on Dec 18, 2009 12:10 AM CST up reply actions  

Terrible call

but I’ve seen that happen too many times to pick this one as an egregious example. LeBron, Wade, Iverson and all the superstars who initiate tons of contact get these calls sometimes when it’s obviously a charge. From the looks of last night’s game here, Eric Gordon will enter that club in due time. (Though he might want to work on his FT’s)

I don’t think it’s based as much on the team/market as the type of player. If we had a guy who consistently put pressure on defenses the way Kobe does, we’d probably get more of these breaks. It’s just a really lucky break and unfortunate for the Bucks.

by Andy G on Dec 17, 2009 8:46 AM CST reply actions  

I just love how the refs are focusing

on traveling calls when blocking/Charging is probably the biggest area in need of improvement. I just find it funny how the replacement refs where more fair and consistent than the real refs are. But of BS. No wonder I watch more college ball and pro ball.

by TheEvilProfessor on Dec 17, 2009 8:56 AM CST reply actions  

Here’s another good one. This game was memorable for 4 things: 1) the 2nd game of The Reason T-Hud Got That Ridiculous Contract; 2) that foul, which sent the game to OT; 3) KG (wait, isn’t he a superstar) fouling out because Robert Horry flopped while setting a screen; 4) Gary Trent and Marc Jackson winning the game in OT by going 5/6 from the foul line in the final minute. One of the 5 best Wolves games ever that rarely gets talked about, despite the refs doing everything they could to hand the Lakers the game.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Dec 17, 2009 10:36 AM CST reply actions  

I remember that one well

Sitting in the Red Dragon on 22nd & Lyndale with the whole bar in the front room watching and going crazy, the one Laker fan in the room being super vocal and everyone getting in his face when Kobe missed some late free throws. Then the bar turning the TV off when regulation ended because it was closing time and a riot nearly breaking out.

by museum on Dec 17, 2009 11:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Complaining about sports officiating is like complaining about traffic

It’s annoying, and sure if drivers complain enough, the DOT might add a lane that will ease the congestion a little bit. But even after changes have been made, traffic will always be a problem and there’s really nothing that people can do other than to plan for it and adjust accordingly.

by TimAllen on Dec 17, 2009 10:54 AM CST reply actions  

Let me get this out

I fucking hate Kobe Bryant. He needs to shut the fuck up and play basketball. I’ve never seen anyone complain to refs as much as him and he gets every call he wants. If I was playing and he complained to the refs I would want to punch him in the face.

by JiveLive on Dec 17, 2009 1:51 PM CST reply actions  

Wow, anger issues

Bryant certainly complains a lot, but so does pretty much every NBA player. Watch Tim Duncan sometime. Or Bron Bron.

And if he gets every call he wants, why would he complain that much in the first place? He would have nothing to complain about if he got every call!

by TimAllen on Dec 17, 2009 3:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Complaining about calls is a huge part of the problem.

The more Kobe whines, scowls, and gets in the faces of refs, the less likely they are to make calls against him. If you look at the video of the Bogut charge, the ref nearest to the play blows his whistle. He knows the call that needs to be made, but he freezes up, too afraid to make it, giving Marc Davis the opening to come in from the other side of the court and call a blocking foul.

Individual calls are a much bigger deal in the NFL, yet you don’t see players there yelling at refs. If Stern wanted to, he could crack down on this sort of thing, and it’d go a long way toward preventing travesties like what happened last night.

by John Doe on Dec 17, 2009 4:55 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah they all complain

but not nearly as much as kobe. He whines when he straight up misses a shot

by JiveLive on Dec 17, 2009 7:15 PM CST up reply actions  

This is why the NFL is the dominant sport in America

They have bad calls as well, but fans in any market know the system gives their team a chance to be competitive, if not now then in a few years (except in Oakland perhaps).

It’s also something that is amazing about watching golf, these guys police themselves and will actually sacrifice a tournament for the good of the game.

Insert your jokes here about how they need to police themselves better off the course.

by Rumblebee on Dec 17, 2009 7:19 PM CST reply actions  

I think one of the big issues

of the Donaghy thing that might have gone over the NBA’s head is how bad the less-angry-than-expected reaction was for them. I feel like they think they got away relatively unscathed, but it’s been a sad commentary about how resigned fans of the NBA are to the awful refereeing and how not shocked sports fans in general were to the situation. People weren’t saying “no big deal” so much as a sarcastic “well, you don’t say,” and it’s not good that the dominant reaction seemed to be indifference. They really, really need to get a handle on this, I think it’s one of the biggest obstacles to the NBA’s relevance increasing in this country, if not the biggest obstacle.

by museum on Dec 17, 2009 11:57 PM CST reply actions  

Bad calls happen at all levels.

The biggest problem the NBA has is that their rules stop the flow of the game. There is way too much emphasis on calls that don’t affect the play, then the refs swallow the whistle when someone gets mugged under the rim. My other big complaint is you frequently see them wait to see if a basket is made before blowing the whistle. If it goes in, no call, if missed, they call it. A foul is a foul regardless of the shot outcome.

I would like to see them abolish two rules.

1. Defensive three seconds just stops play. Most fans never see it and it is not needed. If you are going to allow zone, allow zone. After all, it works at the college level and doesn’t make it boring to watch.

2. The touch fouls on the perimeter. Again, these just stop play and very rarely affect the play. I would continue to call “reaching in” because that can affect the play.

If the NBA took out these, the flow of the game would be better and would make for a more entertaining product for the fans. Every game that I attend, I note that many high school games are officiated more competently.

by mnjayhawk on Dec 18, 2009 6:37 AM CST reply actions  

Could not agree more

Especially with defensive three seconds. Is there a more boring way to entertain an arena of fans?

by oblivionspocket on Dec 18, 2009 7:37 AM CST up reply actions  

Bill Simmons and Malcolm Gladwell talked about this in their recent back-and-forth

This has been reported elsewhere, but according to the FBI, Donaghy was 80% accurate in picking games. I’ve never bet on NBA games but can’t imagine being that good considering how much variability there is from night to night. His secret? He knew which refs had things for/against players and used that information to bet. Not that these refs had overt biases, just that they subconsciously called games a certain way due to more subtle likes/dislikes of players.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Dec 19, 2009 12:52 AM CST reply actions  

So this conversation didn't really go as I hoped

I was hoping I could rally some sort of cohesive community effort to singlehandedly rid the NBA of biased officiating. This problem could have been fixed by now!

Anyway, here’s the results of one guy’s effort. He set up a comprehensive database of every Milwaukee Bucks game, including who the referees were, and then created a bunch of referee statistics based on them. It’s a work in progress and doesn’t yet include the full NBA, but it has potential to be a fantastic resource for monitoring which teams and referees are most often associated with fishy officiating. Ofishyating. Just thought I’d pass it along.

http://www.nbarefstats.com/

by John Doe on Dec 19, 2009 2:51 AM CST reply actions  

And to reflect on the difficulty of this

let’s all bow our heads for a moment in remembrance of MLK…

And then to reflect on how easy this is sometimes,
let’s all shake our heads in disgust as we remember Hitler…

by Mplax on Dec 19, 2009 10:49 AM CST up reply actions  

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