Hart for Tucker+ Swap
by wyn on Dec 29, 2009 4:50 PM CST
45 comments
This is the type of deal David Kahn had in mind when he said during his introductory press conference that he'd look to take advantage of teams with poorer financial situations than the Wolves
Via Jerry Zgoda's Twitter account, here's the deal:
Alando Tucker, 2nd rounder in '10 and cash for [Jason] Hart.
For the Suns, it's purely a financial move. They'll likely waive Hart, given that his contract isn't guaranteed until next month. If they did so today, they'd still owe him about $306k. That's $766k less than Tucker's contract and since the Suns are in luxury tax territory, that difference is worth double to them. They did give the Wolves cash to cover the remainder of Tucker's contract (about $675k), but it still means the Suns can save up to $857k on the deal.
That, apparently, is worth losing a 2010 2nd round pick. No word yet on which pick the Suns gave up (they've got picks from Charlotte and Cleveland in addition to their own).
For the Wolves, Kahn and Rambis get a free look at a prospect. The Suns declined Tucker's option for next year, so there's no financial commitment for Minnesota.
There is a small concern with losing Hart in that if Flynn or Sessions goes down with an injury, the Wolves will have to scramble to sign a backup point guard. That shouldn't over-shadow Tucker's acquisition, though.
The 6'6", 200 lb. Tucker is in his 3rd year out of Wisconsin (Badgers, WHAT!) but has seen only 400 minutes of NBA action. His shooting hasn't been great in that time (.422/.294/.783) but with such spotty minutes on a contender, there's not much opportunity to find one's niche/flow/rhythm. He's a Bo Ryan product, though, so his ability to play a team-game and defensive abilities should be welcomed by the Wolves.
The really good news is that Tucker's played well in his D-League time. In 21 games over the last 2 seasons, Tucker posted averages of 28 points, 6 boards, 1.5 steals with percentages .526/.402/.849. Yes, it's the D-Leage. But it's a sign that Tucker has potential.
The Wolves backcourt and perimeter have been shaky to say the least. While Tucker is no surefire upgrade in talent, he'll get a chance to take minutes from Damien Wilkins, Wayne Ellington and Sasha Pavlovic. I vote for Pavlovic, who's with me? Judging by the comments so far today, almost everyone.
Now let's go pick-up Marcus Landry, Kammron Taylor, Joe Krabbenhoft and Brian Butch. Who's with me on that one? Fine, we can sign Spencer Tollackson too.
[UPDATE: Pick and cash details from Paul Coro of the Arizona Republic]
Phoenix traded Tucker and a conditional second-round pick to Minnesota for Jason Hart, a point guard with a non-guaranteed deal that the Suns will waive. Minnesota gets the Suns' second-round pick in the June draft unless it falls in the top 40. In that case, Minnesota would receive the Cleveland second-round pick that is owed to the Suns.
The Suns will pay the remainder of Tucker's $1.07 million salary and give the Timberwolves an additional $100,000. The Suns' savings come from how much less they will be taxed for being over the luxury tax threshold.
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Upside with minutes?
Found this blog entry from last year. Basically they say that he just needs minutes. Already very skilled at moving the ball and knowing when to shoot and when not to. No wonder Kahn and Rambis were interested.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
He's a great guy.
One of the smartest players Bo Ryan ever had at Wisconsin, and that’s saying something. Too small for the three, too slow (and can’t shoot from the outside) to play the two. Old—he’ll be 26 in six weeks. But can bang inside for a smaller guy, and he will do whatever the team asks and needs. If he sticks with the team, he will be liked by fans, players, and coaches. Love will love him. It will indeed be interesting to see how differently he plays on a team without 3-4 potential All Stars. My guess is he’ll be a lower-cost version of Gomes.
He’s a laid-off man’s version of Jared Dudley (and without the three point shooting), another Sun that I would like to see in a Wolves uniform.
The Dudley comparison...
…is frighteningly accurate. Looking at both of their college numbers, if you shave 10% or so off Dudley’s numbers you get Tucker’s stats with the only real difference being scoring (Tucker shot more). Phoenix played him more at SG, but he seems better suited to SF; he’d be undersized, but as Dick mentioned he can go to the glass. I’m not sure I see him that similar to Gomes; I almost think he’s a little more like Rodney Carney with better shooting but less defense, and roughly the same upside.
Hmmm...
Not as exciting as Devin Brown (which is saying something there) but not bad overall. A young prospect with no commitment. Just fine. So are we sticking with just 2 PG’s?
I'm not too familiar with Brown
what’s his deal? He isn’t young so it’s not youth… his numbers don’t jump out at me. What are your thoughts?
Nice Write Up Wyn
Its a great day for me when the Wolves do a financial trade!
I like the feeling that Kahn is a predator .. I mean “helper” .. dealing with teams that are facing luxury tax problems. He acquired Sessions at a discount this way, and now got a free look at Tucker and a late 2nd.
MIN still has the ability to “help” before the February 19th trade deadline. Even without unguaranteed deals or traded player exceptions, the Wolves could take back additional money in a deal within the 125% + $100,000 cap matching restrictions of the CBA. The most likely targets .. um .. the teams who would receive the most value mathematically from 2009-10 cap space are the ones that are getting closer to the lux threshold, and a potential additional payoff.
HOU, MIA, NOH are closest. UTA, DEN, and PHO are in the neighborhood.
BOS, CLE, DAL, LAL, NYK, ORL, SAS, and WAS are also over the lux.
NOH "has another deal in place with Devin Brown?"
Hoopshype suggested that the Hornets may have pulled out of the Devin Brown deal last night because they had something else cooking. There’s no reason we couldn’t help:
MIN GETS: Hilton Armstrong + Devin Brown + Sean Marks + ? ($4,734,267)
NOH GETS: Olesky Pecherov + Sasha Pavlovic + Nathan Jawai ($3,707,640)
This deal creates a TPE so beautiful that it nearly maxes out the salary decrease within 125% + $100,000 for the Hornets .. in fact, its only $2,500 inside the range. The Hornets subtract a little over $1 mil from their payroll, so $2 mil with lux. They also benefit because they pull within $2 mil of the luxury threshold, or well within the land of other team’s TPEs.
The deal also adds some needed size to the Hornets.
But what would we want in return? I think its tough to ask a cash-strapped team for cash, though they may be willing to pay it because pf the lux savings. Maybe swap a 2nd for a future protected 1st? If we included $3 mil cash ($5 mil total?), could we get a pick swap between the 2010 NOH pick and the UTA pick? They may not mind avoiding the cap hold next year.
What was the original deal for Brown?
I haven’t read the other threads yet so I apologize if it was in there, but were we getting a pick or cash or what was the deal there?
Maybe not the right place to put this, but...
…it appears the snag in the Brown deal was his trade kicker. He has a 10% kicker on $1.1M. He was asked to waive part of it, but refused, and that made it not worth it to either us or them. To that I say…huh? His kicker was $110K, somebody killed the deal over less than $100K? Really?
Because there are no fours.
Toine
who knows
maybe the wolves wanted to maintain some room under the luxury tax to make additional deals and felt that the extra money they could save by the PHO deal was more valuable than a better current talent. This seems a little more reasonable.
by TheEvilProfessor on Dec 30, 2009 2:40 PM CST up reply actions
I thought it killed the deal
because the salaries didn’t match:
Jason Hart = $825,000
Devin Brown = $1,100,000
In order to trade, 125% of Jason Hart’s salary + $100,000 has to be greater than or equal to $1,100,000. If you do the math the number is $1,131,000, so the deal worked. My guess is that with Brown’s 10% (or $110,000) trade kicker, they wanted him to waive $79,000 so that the salaries would match exactly. Combined with his likely loss of a starting position if he came here, I can see why Brown wouldn’t want to part with almost $80,000.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
Good call
I guess I assumed the deal must work with the signed contracts and then be adjusted. Changing contract terms on the fly to fit the rules seems sketchy and…aren’t you just begging for cheating?
In any case, can’t blame Brown at all. His next contract likely will be more than $30K larger next year by playing in NO. And he doesn’t have to move to Minnesota in January.
Because there are no fours.
Toine
I know Biggity2Bit gave you the answer
but on a sidenote, I don’t think Kahn is a man who sees it as 100K… I think he sees it as a deal where he loses 10%. And that’s a big deal.
Interesting Deal
I’d like to see that deal be
Hilton Armstrong, Devin Brown, Sean Marks and 2nd round pick?
Brown would have filled in a depth Need at shooting guard..Armstrong would been a nice fit coming off the bench behind K Love and Marks would have probably just been the bench warmer…With Cardinal being in a suit every game.
Most likely, we'd just split the lux savings
Both teams split the $1 mil in lux tax recovered on the deal.
MIN GAINS $500,000 (Pays $1 mil in payroll, Receives $1.5 mil in cash)
NOH GAINS $500,000 (Receives $1 mil in lower payroll + $1 mil in lux taxes – $1.5 mil in cash)
Maybe more importantly for Hornets, they get within sniffing distance of the luxury threshold. If they could shed the last $2 mil in 2009-10 payroll, it’d save them about $8.5 mil, so there is a lot of incentive.
May be a dumb question......
how are any of those players an upgrade in anyway?
by TheMorningAfter on Dec 29, 2009 5:49 PM CST up reply actions
Armstrong and Brown
would definitely be upgrades over Cardinal and Pavlovic.
Would love that, Big al, Klove, Armstrong and Hollins .. now that’s a nice big man rotation. Throw in some cardinal for when someone gets hurt .. nice
Official Kahn/Rambis band-wagon rider since 2009
by Wim (Belgium) on Dec 29, 2009 5:45 PM CST up reply actions
Prophesy from Brightsideofthesun
Talk about nailing a prediction. Well, besides naming the wrong players.
I like Alando Tucker way more than Devin Brown
I used to watch Tucker all the time tear it up at Wisconsin. He’s not a great shooter, but a strong scorer, good defender, and has a polished post game for a swingman.
Think Bozi Wells guys.
This is a “why not” move. Nothing spectacular but can’t have anything against it. Which 2nd rounder it is makes a difference though.
Official Kahn/Rambis band-wagon rider since 2009
I'm ok with that
Ramon Sessions and Nate Jawai were basically why not moves too. Kahn seems to have a talent for finding these sorts of deals.
Noticed it too and also think it’s a good thing! though I still think his best move of all was the trade for the 5th pick.
Official Kahn/Rambis band-wagon rider since 2009
by Wim (Belgium) on Dec 29, 2009 5:46 PM CST up reply actions
INFO on the PICK
Minnesota gets the Suns’ second-round pick in the June draft unless it falls in the top 40. In that case, Minnesota would receive the Cleveland second-round pick that is owed to the Suns.
So 41-60, huh?
This should end the mid-season Sessions trade talk
Unless another move is made for a backup PG, Sessions is here till the off-season.
Like some sort of deal with the knicks. (This sounds like a horrible trade)
Sessions, Blount’s Expiring and Cardinal’s expiring for Danillo Gallinari, Nate Robinson and Eddy Curry’s contract.
Hart
We can always sign Jason Hart if Sessions or Flynn goes down. He was cut immediately.
by Mac of the MIAC on Dec 30, 2009 9:08 AM CST reply actions
I think
we have to wait 30 days, but this is definitely an option.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Dec 30, 2009 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
Good trade
I think this shows that Kahn knew how much money would influence this season and helped shed salary in the off season to be in a good situation now. This also shows that Kahn has the green ligth to add some salary this year when the deals are good. We got a 2nd rounder for around $1 million, which is a good deal. I would love to see Tucker take Palvovic’s time, although since the team option was no used on Tucker I have very modest expectations for him and doubt he will be here next year. I like this trade better than the NO version. Kahn is definitely harder working that McHale. He reminds me of the old Meinike Muffler commercial, “I am not going to pay a lot for a small forward!”
What other moves will Kahn do? Except the Wizards trade all of them have been like this, doing minor tweaks. I forsee more of the same unless a great deal comes down the line. The Simmons NYK proposed trade is interesting though. The Knicks still need to dump salary to make a major signing. We are in a position to help and Kahn is a screwd negociator. Let’s make them pay for their desperation.
Actually we didn't pay $1M for a second rounder
The suns are paying the rest of tuckers salary. We no longer have to pay Harts salary and get a second round pick. They threw in the pick instead of sending us more cash than just Tuckers salary to share the luxury tax savings they will receive.
by TheEvilProfessor on Dec 30, 2009 9:57 AM CST up reply actions
A mili
We could have cut Hart and saved $1 million ourselves. I maybe over simplifying, but we could have cut Hart before his salary became gaurenteed.
Yes...
but Phoenix paying us to pay Tucker has essentially the same cost savings. And now we have a pick and a look at Tucker. There is no loss here…
only gain
a player we might actually use and a pick for free. We effectively waived Hart, Tucker elected to play for us for free and got a 2nd round pick. Not too shabby.
by TheEvilProfessor on Dec 30, 2009 2:38 PM CST up reply actions
Do you really think Tucker won't be around?
I think he’s a much more appealing option next year for Pavs’ role, or even Wilkins’. Here’s my thought process: Wilkins will either be traded to someone as an expiring, or we will keep him and use his expiring for savings ourselves. He may be resigned, but not for as much as he’s making now. Pavlovic has played himself out of returning next year. Gomes won’t be back, I don’t think. As much as I like him, he’s just too expensive for us with not enough production. That’s at least otwo openings, if not three for a SG/SF on this roster.
I am assuming that we will draft a 2 or a 3 next year, and/or will sign and trade for one (be it a star or not). So at worst that’s two more guys at the 2 or 3 coming in who represent upgrades over Wilkins and Pavs. Tucker, as a young talent who simply needs PT, seems to have solid role player written all over him. With a probable third spot open for role playing bench guy, I think Tucker has a great chance of coming back again next year. Who knows – maybe he becomes 20 mpg guy for us? He certainly sounds like a great fit for the triangle, like he just knows where to be and when to shoot and when to pass. I know his shoot is funky, but if he’s getting open looks it might work out alright.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Dec 30, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
I agree completely
I really like Wilkins and I hope they bring him back on a vet minimum (he doesn’t deserve more, especially with the changes in salary cap). He seems like a great veteran presence with his head on straight and he consistently contributes everywhere when he is in the game. He hustles and plays within his game all while playing good defense. This is a perfect role model for young guys coming in during practice and in the locker room. I still think Tucker, if he works out, has a better spot on this team. Like biggity mentioned, Gomes and Pavlovic are as good as gone as well as Cardinal (who really wont change it too much…). That really only leaves us with Ellington, Brewer, Tucker, and drafted players. Unless we make a signing of a guy like Gay, Brewer, or Childress, Tucker should definitely get a second shot unless he really sucks this year.
Ronnie Brewer, right?
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Dec 30, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
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