Halfway to the Guns of Target Center
by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 31, 2009 6:23 PM CST
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Having already lost two games to the Wolves in the month of December, if there was one thing to be certain about in last night's tilt between Utah and Minny, it was that the Jazz would come out strong and the Wolves couldn't afford to play with anything but maximum energy.
I can't tell you how long it has been since I have watched a Wolves game where you a) knew that the other team was going to give it their all and b) that the Wolves would answer the opening bell. Granted, this is the sort of thing that you take for granted on a winning squad, but with Our Beloved Puppies, it's been a long, long time since they responded to the kicked down door with their hands on the trigger of their gun instead of on their heads.
One of the most encouraging things about the Wolves' recent play is the accompanying quotes about working hard and not viewing 2 wins in a row as meaning anything other than having to return to practice the next day. While they didn't win the game, the Wolves didn't get blown off the court by a team that had every reason in the world to come out an destroy them. This is a minor, but noted (by this fan, at least), accomplishment. Now, if only they could bring that Brixton attitude to the start of the 2nd half...then they'd be on to something.
Getting around to the actual game, this one is pretty easy to explain:
| Pace | Eff | eFG | FT/FG | OREB% | TOr | |
| Utah | 96.0 | 111.5 | 49.5% | 17.4 | 31.8 | 12.5 |
| Minnesota | 107.3 | 55.8% | 20.5 | 22.2 | 15.6 |
Take a look at the FT/FG number. Pretty good right? Well, the Wolves ended up going 16-26 from the charity stripe compared to 16-22 for the Jazz. Did free throw shooting do in the good guys? Considering they just lost to the Spurs while going 23-25 from the line, perhaps tonight was just an example of the team returning to their average level of performance. It's not like the Wolves were operating out of the bounds of what they normally experience at the line. On average, they give up 24.9 FTA/game (giving up 18.8 makes) while taking 22.6 (and making 16.4). Yeah, they didn't make a good percentage, but they made as many as they normally make while giving up less than they normally give up. Whatever it was, the free throws were well within the normal boundaries of what we typically see with the squad and the Wolves didn't lose the game because they couldn't hit their free throws. They lost because of the crooked number to the right of the FT/FG: they gave up a ridiculous amount of offensive rebounds.
The Wolves give up an average of 11.4 offensive rebounds/game. Last night against the Jazz they gave up 14. This led to an obscene amount of 2nd chance points and 40 shots taken at the rim or within 10 feet of the bucket. On the other side of the coin, the Wolves average 12.3 offensive rebounds/game. Last night against the Jazz they collected 8. This is where the script was flipped and the game was lost. The Wolves need to own the offensive glass, especially on nights when they shoot well and get to the line more than their opponent. This game was theirs to be had if they simply were able to do the one thing they typically do well: control the offensive glass on both ends of the court.
Since we're on the topic of offensive rebounds, it would be ridiculous to not talk about the Big Piranha, Kevin Love. Last night the guy grabbed 1/2 of his team's offensive rebounds while ending up one assist shy of netting the Wolves' first triple-double since Kevin Garnett. Love played a magnificent 4th quarter where he showed that he is capable of having the offense run exclusively through him. Let's go back to something i wrote during camp:
Kevin Love also looks like a new man. He hit a few mid-range jumpers as well as a nice corner three. As always, he controled the boards and he appears to have focused on defense over the summer. As many of you already know, I'm pretty high on Love and I think he has the potential to be something of an evolutionary player at the 4/5. With his combination of ball skills, shooting touch, and rebounding, I think he has the rare opportunity to be something we don't often see in the NBA: an upper level role player who is effectively unguardable while operating in the gaps of the offense. I honestly think he sees an All Star game before Al Jefferson. Scrapping, getting opponents out of position, crashing the boards, keeping possessions alive; Love is going to dominate these aspects of the game and the better the Wolves get, the more these things are going to be apparent and matter.
Is it possible that Love is something more than a guy who can operate within the gaps of an offense? Can he be some sort of mutant cross between Vlade Divac, Bill Walton, and Wes Unseld? Is his ceiling more than Brad Miller + ridiculous rebounding? I don't know. What I do know is that it's getting harder and harder to ignore just how far and away better he is than anyone else on the roster. If he's hitting threes and dishing out assists all over the court (3 at the rim, 2 within 10 feet, and 4 between 16-23 feet), and he continues to rebound, and he continues to show that he can put the ball on the floor if need be, and if the Wolves surround him with some legit wing talent, I think the gap between he and Al Jefferson will become even more pronounced and the conversation about whether or not he is Brad Miller+ or something else (i.e. more) will become the front and center issue concerning the Big Piranha. Keep in mind that we're talking about a 21 year old front court player with less than 50 games started. (BTW: Hats off to devilzsidewalk for his sponsorship of Basketball Reference's Kevin Love page.)
OK, quick subject change:
MINNEAPOLIS (AP) -Former Minnesota basketball coach Clem Haskins made his first appearance at Williams Arena since resigning after a massive academic fraud scandal in 1999.
It appears all has been forgotten.
Haskins was in attendance Tuesday night for a celebration of the 1989-90 team he led to the NCAA tournament regional finals. The crowd gave him a thunderous standing ovation after his name was announced.
Haskins' former players pulled him from the stands onto the court and surrounded him with a group hug as the ovation continued.
Haskins coached the Gophers for 13 seasons, leading them to the Final Four in 1997. That run was wiped from the record books after the Gophers were implicated in the academic fraud scandal that also caused the NCAA to banish Haskins from coaching.
How on earth was that lying fraud let in the building?
That's enough for now. Have a happy New Year.
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The Kahn Plan seems to be working
Obviously Kahn was trying to accumulate assets last summer (as well as save money and cap space). I think he also wanted to free up enough roster space so that there was little doubt which seven or eight guys were going to get the bulk of the playing time (injuries aside). He’s giving guys like Love, Brewer and Gomes enough playing time to show where they will fit in the future. Love is definitely taking advantage. I’m sure if you asked Kahn today his assessment would be that Love is higher than a #4 on a contender.
Despite the lousy record, I actually feel better about the core of this team than I did last summer. This team definitely has two starters on a contending team (Love and AL), and should have at worst two players who are first off the bench on a contender (Corey and Flynn). If they hit on their first pick next summer they are only a player or two away, with a lot of assets to use.
That 4th quarter run
is just cray when you look at what Love did. He checked in with the Wolves down 101-84. The wolves went on an 18-4 run to get within 3 over 4 minutes of play. For those 18 points Love assisted on 6, made 8 on FG and 2 on FT. Brewer added the other 2 on a breakaway. Love also tossed in a steal. Too bad the Wolves couldn’t close that out, but they gave up way too many easy baskets all game, and at crucial periods in the 4th. They’ve got to alter their defensive schemes so that guys aren’t trying to close out on open 3s from 20 feet away. Either that or it is not a scheme it’s just poor execution.
Those types of runs
where one guy is either scoring or assisting on every single possession are usually only seen out of LeBron and a few guys like him. But Love’s run is at level, if a little shorter. On the 9 possessions we had after Love checked in, we scored on 8 of them (18 total points, good for a ORtg of 200) with Love scoring or assisting on 7 of those 8.
I might have to switch my crusade from demanding that Sessions be the starter to demanding that our offense run through Love. He’s really, really good.
Don’t forgot that he drew like 3 fouls in a row during that run on top of everything else. That was just awesome.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
You could tell he was doing well
by the way the announcers were trying to complain about offensive fouls every time he got the ball.
The KahnWagon
is definitely a ways off from coming to fruition. I appreciate the fact that he’s using the season to evaluate the roster fully and see what changes need to be made…which is all well and good and more power to him for sticking to his guns. The difference will be what choices he makes based on this and prior seasons. Realistically, I see three, maybe four potential core guys to build this team around:
Love is kind of a given. He’s quite possibly the best starting glue guy in the recent past. Better than Battier by a long-shot. He does all those little things that get forgotten on dill-hole teams like the Wolves and are applauded on championship teams.
Brewer is quickly becoming a personal favorite of mine. The defensive specialist stigma could disappear in the next year or so and turn into a really good all-around player. I LOVE what the kid is turning into and his hard work seems to really be paying off.
The other two potential keepers are enigmas at this point. One is too young and raw to judge, the other is, quite frankly, dependent on how he adapts. Let’s begin with the first:
Johnny Flynn. Do you know how he’s going to end up as a pro? I sure as hell don’t. His ceiling is Isiah Thomas with a pleasant demeanor. His downside? Earl Watson? I don’t know, but his range varies depending on who you talk to. His retainability truly depends on the next few years, the Rubio situation, and the potential of nabbing Mr Wall in the draft.
And finally….
Big Al Jefferson. What’s all this about? Is he a center or a power forward? Is he a dominant post scorer or a defensive liability? I say all of the above. He’s undersized for a defensive….anything, and pretty much just an offensive spike strip. Does it get the job done? Yes. Does it bring the chase down to a standstill? Yes.(Quite frankly, I’d send him plus filler to the Bulls for Deng and Noah in a nanosecond). Is his value really worth what the team pays him, especially considering the direction the team is moving? Probably not. The man kills possessions, stifles Senor Amor’s learning curve(actually, he’s probably killing everyone on the team’s understanding of team basketball), and lacks any defensive presence whatsoever. I’m sure he’s an extremely pleasant young man, but his game is definitely better suited for a more talented, PG oriented team where he is the second option(like the Bulls).
The Wolves would be much better off with this trade:
PG: Flynn
SG: Brewer
SF: Deng
PF: Love
C: Noah
Does this not appeal to everyone more than our current roster like it does to me? Of course that are upgrades to be made. PG and SG could both be potentially upgraded. But seriously, who wouldn’t make this trade? I’d even throw in Gomes and ask for a 1st to make it happen.
What in the bloody hell does "thowed" mean?
The thing about AL
I agree with you for the most part about Al right now, but the thing about him is that by all – literally all – accounts I’ve read or seen about him this year is that he is working his @ss off trying to expand and adapt his game. Some of the stuff that he’s saying comes across as the kind of stuff a team leader says (paraphrasing, ‘I feel like the offense is stifling me, but I check the box and I’ve got 15 shots on the night. It’s the offense that’s failing, it’s me.’ Or his work recently with Rambis on practicing how pass quickly and effectively out of a double team).
Man oh man if Al could just develop a reliable and efficient defensive presence – not a shutdown defender, but a consistent average defender. At least be a guy who’s always in the right place at the right time, or is good at moving his guy towards where the help is, etc. In many ways he’s a great fit with Kevin Love if we could get his defense up to par. Love and Al would form a synergistic vortex of basketball offensive efficiency if complimented with some dynamic shooters and perimeter players. I’m not sure what Flynn will be, but I do think that he’s a guy I want on my team whether as a starer or bench guy. I love Senor Amor’s description of him, “a bulldog.” I guess in the end I have the feeling that Al would be reluctantly traded for the right opportunity/talent. I personally would love the Chicago trade for Noah, but I don’t think that would happen. Don’t know why, just seems like trades like that never happen in the NBA despite how much sense they make.
By the by, I saw Kurt Rambis tonight. Glad to see he was getting to spend some quality time with his family. I’m sure those moments are few and far between during the season for all coaches in the NBA. Also saw JPete. He’s a pretty funny guy. People kept coming up to him because they recognized him from TV, and he would then turn it around and quiz them about how much they really knew about basketball, all in good fun though. They’re both so gracious with anyone who goes up talks to them. Makes me proud that they represent our squad.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Dec 31, 2009 10:49 PM CST up reply actions
Wow cool
where did you see them?!
I think that trades like that don’t happen because only one side thinks they make sense (in this case, us). Obviously there are varying opinions on both sides, but I think MN slightly favors it while Chicago quickly turns it down. They see Noah as a building block, rightly so. They need someone to compliment Noah, they shouldn’t be trading Noah for someone to compliment him after he is already gone. I’d be surprised if they don’t go hard after Bosh once Wade falls through. I’d love it if it happens, but the popularest (yeah… I know… I just like how it sounds) opinion seems to be that Noah and Deng are a higher value than Jefferson.
I work at a restaurant part time
And they both visited last night.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
Funniest part, actually, is that I did a double take on Rambis when I first saw him, and not because I didn’t recognize him. It was rather because he was dressed quite casually (most people are fairly trended up at our place, but casual is always welcome). I’ve gotten so used to seeing him in suits that I forgot the stories right after he was hired about how the Lakers had to institute a dress code because of him.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
haha
I didn’t know they had to make a dress code because of him! That’s awesome. Good for him. I assume if the normal dress is a little more upscale, you are encouraged not to talk to guests like that? Or did you get to have a lengthy discussion about the triangle and what you would like to see him do with the team? Ok… maybe not that much, but did you say anything to him?
Nothing more than I had to
We get athletes in once or twice a month, or TV personalities, etc. I figure they have people talking to them all the time, so I usually just do what I have to and leave them to enjoy their night in peace. That’s what I’d want if I were them.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
Do you really think
people talk to Rambis that much now that he is not in LA anymore? I’d be interested to learn how many people actually know who he is… kind of sad. Everyone and their brother would know Childress and Gardenhire.
True
Many of the people I was working with didn’t know who he was. I still err on the side of respecting celebrities’ privacy, especially when they’re out with their families. Besides, after JPete was humorously grilling people about their basketball knowledge I had to think twice about whether I wanted to be that guy who tries to talk triangle with Rambis.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
I would have been in the same boat with you
but it would have been killing me to not say anything the whole time though. I probably would have waited until he was on his way out and then just said something in passing about I hope he is still with our Wolves in a few years.
Why would the Bulls Trade their 2nd and 3rd best players?
Why would the Wolves want Deng with his contract?
Valid question
I think, if the trade were to go through, it would be a value judgment kind of thing, meaning that the Bulls would have to believe that the inside scoring presence of Al would make all the other Bulls starters that much better. Giving up Deng is a lot, but also necessary in order to make the trade work. We could easily include Gomes, who isn’t Deng by any means but would also give you reasonable production fairly consistently. I also think people are fooling themselves if they think that Noah is going to become a dominant low post producer. Yes, we might end up with the same issues that Chicago has if we trade Al to them, but there are two caveats with that: 1. we have Pekovic, who probably is the best low post prospect out there right now (at least in terms of scoring); and 2. our system is perhaps less dependent on a low post scorer than Chicago’s, so losing Al’s production would be minimized for us, whereas the effect of gaining Al would be maximized for Chicago.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
Agree that people who think Noah is that good are a little off
but I’m sure there are plenty of people who say the same thing about us with Love (and also Jefferson). Noah has some potential, but I don’t think there is much offensive potential. But potential is a factor in trades just as much as actual talent, and his could be enough to sway the vote.
I completely understand
that Big AL is working hard. And I don’t doubt it. However, some people are given gifts and meant to use them. Al Jeff was given a gift, and he uses it. He was also deprived of the gift of defensive ability. I don;t care how hard the guy works(and he’s undoubtedly been busting his tail), it’s probably never going to happen for him. He’s just an offensive guy.
Don’t me wrong, the guy can score on pretty much on anyone(Howard included). However, he lacks the instincts to ever become even competent defensively. It’s become painfully clear that it just isn’t in his programming. I watched a play a few night ago where a PG(a PG. mind you) drove the lane, and rather than crashing the lane and challenging the shot, Jeff chose to box out his man and hope for the board. This is definitely not consistent with a defensive-minded individual whatsoever.
Say what you will about Al Jeff…..I think he’s more valuable as trade bait.
What in the bloody hell does "thowed" mean?
I mostly agree
but I think I am oh-so-slightly less extreme in my opnion. I think Al Jefferson has the ability to improve on defense, but as you pointed out, he absolutely NEEDS to learn how to defend the easy layup while not completely opening up a passing lane. He’s got about a foot on these guards when they are both standing straight up with hands overhead and he needs to recognize the kind of advantage this provides. He has the potential, but the window for meeting it is closing quickly. If he is trying this hard to improve during practice, it’s amazing that we still haven’t seen much of an improvement in team defense. Makes me agree with your opinion that maybe it is just not meant to happen. Still got a bit of hope though!
Might be more valuable as trade bait, but I don’t know what kind of deals are on the table for him, so maybe he is a ton more valuable in a Wolves uni.
"I'll get to recap the story of ending up with a drunken Courtney James in a day room at Comstock Hall"
I don’t really care how you lost your virginity, I’m just happy to know that it happened.
by PoorDick on Jan 1, 2010 12:12 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
;)
Bump, set, and nicely spiked. That really was a poorly worded sentence, wasn’t it?
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Let's hear it.
Kudos to PoorDick, but as a long-time Gopher season ticket holder who felt a big mismash of emotions when i saw Clem get on the court…well, I’d like to hear more.
Short version:
I was over at a lady friend’s room in Comstock Hall during the week and not wanting to have to make The Walk back to Pioneer Hall the following morning I left between 1-2 when I thought no one would be around. On the way to the elevator there was a big guy slumped in a chair of the day room right before the elevator. I poked him and it was Courtney James. I asked what he was doing there in the middle of the night and if it would be a problem if anyone found him sitting there drunk (this was his freshman year). The response was something along the lines of “Don’t worry about it, Coach Haskins will take care of stuff like this.” This was pretty much the same response that James gave to the Strib reporter who confronted him with the domestic battery report (i.e. “You’ll have to run this by Coach Haskins before you print it.”)
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
The Jefferson trade
is purely hypothetical. All I’m saying is that he’s not the ideal center for this team going forward. I’m not saying he’s not an incredibly gifted athlete, but I don’t think he’s going to be the center of the future for the Wolves(or any other organization, for that matter). The poor guy is an incredibly gifted offensive PF forced to play Center. He’s out of position, out of scheme and out of future success with this team. It’s time to cut ties and take what you can get.
The Deng+Noah trade is purely hypothetical. I’d love it, but you’d obviously have to include some contracts or something to make it work. I’m not a cap expert by any means, and haven’t researched the implications of such a deal, but I think we could throw in some filler and make it work. D-Rose gets a partner in crime on the low block who is more than willing to pass the leadership torch, we fill the pivot plus a much needed wing scorer.
What in the bloody hell does "thowed" mean?
Again with Jefferson trades...
The incessant drives to trade big Al continue. Apparently we must trade our best offensive weapon. Even after returning from a major injury, accepting constructive criticism, and working hard on improving his game & playing within a new system. All of that from our best player. I call him that because he is still the player most likely to be our next All-Star. Love is a fine player. Love is more versatile than Al. But Love’s inside scoring will never approach Al’s. A team really needs that punch. The Bulls team with Deng+Noah is struggling (particularly with low post scoring) and their fans are up in arms. Give them Al and we may be merely assuming their problems. Keep Al. Draft your way to a better team.
Are the wolves better with Jefferson on the court?
Looked at adjusted plus minus for last season, before Jefferson was hurt.
His adjusted plus minus was better than anyone we have on the team now. So he was scoring and DEFENDING ENOUGH to make a difference.
2008-2009 adjusted plus minus [for players still with the wolves]
Jefferson plus 5.04
Cardinal plus 4.09
-—————————————————————
Love minus 7.63
Gomes minus 8.76
Brewer [not enough data]
Thats not to say that Jefferson is the best player on the team. Love very well might be, especially if he can learn to play against and score through double teams. [Love hasn’t proven himself against double teams, which every great player must content with, Jefferson gets all of that attention.]
But to go from Love MIGHT be better than Jefferson to, we must trade Jefferson is a leap.
If Jefferson was surrounded by some “quality” teammates would he win. I’m sure he would. People forget Pau Gasol was considered too soft and too weak a defender to win while in Memphis. But surrounded by good teammates suddenly he’s Kobe’s Tonto.
Even Kahn has said Jefferson is NOT a number 1. Jefferson has accepted that.
Maybe my eyes are bad but in the last few games I’ve seen jefferson play decent team defense, pass the ball and even become a shot blocker.
In his last 4 games, Jefferson has had 4, 5, 3, & 4 assists. Thats pretty good for a guy who can’t pass. He had 5 blocks in his last game and rotated well enough to block the middle.
People also seem to forget that Jefferson is coming back from being hurt.
His numbers have improved each month back.
Oct – 10.5 pts, 6 reb, 30% FG
Nov – 16.6 pts, 7.8 reb, 47% FG
Dec – 18.7 pts, 10.3 reb, 50% FG
in his previous two seasons he averaged about 22 pts, 11 rebounds and shot 50%. That was playing with virtually no offensive support being constantly double and triple teamed.
He’s also a really good kid. He always supports his coaches and teammates. He took a home town discount to sign with the wolves. When he signed everyone said he could get a max contract. He took $11 million in his first year, when others said he should have gotten $15 or $16 million. He took less so the wolves could build a team.
All I’m saying is give him an opportunity to prove he can play decent defense and pass.
When healthy, Jefferson is one of the better “go to” scorers in the NBA and one of the few big men who can play that role. People forget how good jefferson was before he was hurt last year.
I can confidently say, if Jefferson is traded he will join the pantheon that includes: KG, Billups, Ray Allen and others who came and left and we regretted it.
by Kevin Love Jefferson on Jan 1, 2010 10:16 AM CST reply actions
Considering he played 2 games in October
I think I would throw those two games into the November category.
I think the biggest reasons people think Al needs to go come from before his injury when he was putting up those numbers. His TS% maxed out at .535 with us, which is not good at all for a big man who can’t play defense and is supposed to be the best player on your team. Obviously he was double and even triple teamed, and to his credit, it didn’t seem to matter how many people were guarding him, he still shot about the same percentage. In Boston he was up around .54 and .55ish, so there is definitely hope that, once he stops being focused on by the defense, that he can improve upon that number. It’ll be pretty telling if he couldn’t get a TS% of at least .570 within a couple years. If he doesn’t reach this and his defense doesn’t improve any, then he will always be a guy leading a .500 club. If he can improve to .570ish and Love can stay up there too, while playing even just average defense, then we are gonna be golden. Right now though, a high volume, relatively low efficiency shooter can’t improve a team enough if they are also playing below average defense.
Because of this (and maybe I am wrong), there seems to be a divide between those who a) think he is already a commodity to a winning team b) those who think he will get there when surrounded by talent and c) those who don’t think he will improve enough after 5 years in the league and think he would make better trade bait to a team where he fits a need better (like Chicago).
On a side note, I don’t think it’s too far out of the realm of realism to suggest that Love is better than Big Al. Love currently (small sample size noted) leads Al in PER and winshares, efficiency ratings, FTA, FT%, rebounding, passing, stealing, and o/rating and d/rating. The crazy thing about his offensive and defensive ratings, is that he has a 15point favorable spread. That means when he is on the floor, we are winning by 15 points per 100 possessions. Small sample size or not, WOW. For arguments sake, we can take Jefferson’s numbers from last year and Love still has him beat everywhere except he loses out on PER by .1 (considering it’s a scoring-weighted stat, that’s still a win for Love, imo). So Love loses out to Jefferson on blocks, turnovers (which is pretty good for both players), and post moves. It’s an interesting debate and I’d love (no pun intended) to hear other peoples’ thoughts on who is better considering Jefferson’s stats from last year and Love’s from this year. Or maybe who will be better.
Jefferson's TS% is lower than many "bigs" because he creates his own offense!
Most “big’s” get their offense created for them. They might play on a running team like the suns and get layups or dunks that way or they have great passers who get them shots.
If Al was “given” more layups/dunks by good passers his shooting percentage would jump.
With player of Al’s offensive ability even that’s not really necessary. If the wolves has a couple of good wings who could knock down three’s it would prevent so many double and triple teams. If he was playing one defender rather than two or three, his FG% would jump also.
Unless we manage to trade Al for a true superstar like a lebron or kobe [or KG 3 years ago] we will definitely regret it.
I think Kahn has the patience to wait for Al to improve his defense and passing. The triangle works best when you have a great low post scorer. There are very few of those in the NBA today. We are lucky enough to have one of those unique players. Don’t trade him. It will make Foye for Roy look like a smart move.
by Kevin Love Jefferson on Jan 1, 2010 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
Jefferson is injured this year
If you compare PER for Al when he was healthy vs Love they are about the same. [Al’s PER last season was 23.1 about the same as Love’s this year.] Win shares last season Love was 5.3 in 81 games. Jefferson was 4.9 in 50 games. If jefferson’s win shares is prorated for 81 games its 7.9 Love has improved his win share this year to an 81 game rate of 10.3 which would be better than Al. But Love hasn’t shown he can carry an offense when the defense is designed to stop him. Most of Love’s offense is designed to be complementary. He doesn’t take over games offensively as we have seen jefferson and other star players do. Even in the closing moments against Utah when Love scored all of those points, he was open because the opponent was worried about jefferson. Thats how Love had wide open 3’s. If Love was “the star” he would be double and tripled and sometimes before he got the ball. We haven’t seen Love handle that type of pressure yet. We have seen Al dominate even in those circumstances.
I want both Love and Jefferson to stay wolves the rest of their careers. I hope fans argue back and forth who is better for years to come. In a few years I want the media to talk about them like Robinson and Duncan.
Add some shooters and a passing PG to jefferson and love and we go deep into the playoffs. Jefferson will become an above average team defender and passer. Thats a promise.
by Kevin Love Jefferson on Jan 1, 2010 2:26 PM CST up reply actions
I'm trying to respond
but you just agreed with everything I said by rehashing everything in your own words… so I don’t know what to respond to.
I’ll try though… First, it’s hard to double or triple team someone who is spacing the floor to the perimeter. Second, I won’t pretend to know what Utah’s strategy was for the end of that game, but whether they were focusing on Jefferson or not, Love knew right where to be to take advantage of that. Finally, to be a better player, you don’t need to score more points. So far, in two seasons, Love has made our team better while he is on the court. In terms of offensive and defensive ratings, Love has always had a winning rating while Jefferson is yet to post one. It’s kind of like saying Ben Gordon is better than Kevin Garnett because he scores more points. I’m not suggesting that there is this much talent disparity, I’m just pointing out that Jefferson gets us points about 53% of the time he shoots while Love seems to get us points 57% of the time he shoots. In addition though, Love seems to get us points in other ways while Jefferson’s contribution seems to stop there. Hard to quantify beyond assists (and they only tell half of the story), but I think it’s definitely recognizable.
Let me begin by saying that I luv Love!
I also believe that he could be better than Jefferson someday and could become an important NBA star. [Not because Jefferson is a bad player but because Love could a a GREATER one.] But to say love was better than Jefferson last season is simply wrong in my view. Love didn’t make everyone on the floor better last season.
plus minus for Love and Jefferson last season [when jefferson was healthy]
from 82 games
http://www.82games.com/0809/0809MIN.HTM
Jefferson was plus 3.9
-———————————————————-
Love was (minus) 2.8 for the season
Roland Rating
Jefferson plus 5.4
-——————————————
Love (minus) 0.7
adjusted plus minus
from:
http://basketballvalue.com/teamplayers.php?year=2008-2009&mode=summary&sortnumber=94&sortorder=DESC&team=MIN
Jefferson plus 5.04
-———————————————————
Love (minus) 7.63
by Kevin Love Jefferson on Jan 1, 2010 7:15 PM CST up reply actions
My apologies if I made it sound like I meant last season
I was actually comparing Jefferson’s numbers from last season instead of this season to give Al the benefit of the doubt in terms of the injury. But I was taking Love’s numbers completely from this year (small sample size, but also seem to be backed up by his summer league performances). So basically I was comparing Love this year to Jefferson last year. Again, my apologies for the misunderstanding. Didn’t really make that clear when I was typing it up.
And I certainly hope that your promise comes true!
I like the optimism.
Don't know of an appropriate place to post this
but just thought people would find it interesting to watch the end of the Boston/Warriors game a few days ago. I’ll summarize for those who don’t want to youtube it.
Basically they had Perkins and Garnett both guarding the inbounds and waving their hands and jumping… good strategy if the team doesn’t have a timeout for sure. But Nellie calls a timeout after a few seconds of not finding a pass because CJ Miles was too small to see anything. He puts Radmanovich on the inbounds instead. Now to me, the smart thing to do would be to spread everyone out evenly on the floor, specifically with one person on each corner of that baseline then with the other two spread out from the free throw line to somewhere just behind half court towards the other baseline… there are only 3 guys to guard this when there are two guarding the inbounds…. But Nellie being the mastermind that he is (yes, huge sarcasm here), has Radmanovich hail mary the ball to the far corner where Monta just barely catches it over Tony Allen right near the Celtic hoop and just nearly avoids going out of bounds. Wow… and this is AFTER a timeout! At the very least you lob it up at your own hoop and let Maggette or Randolph go for the alleyoop so it is at least not RIGHT next to the opposing team’s hoop for the easy tie. Nellie… you’re a moron.
I should add
that they ended up winning the game after Monta got fouled… then Ray Allen had a chance to miss a freethrow for the putback but missed the rim completely and got a violation. Interesting end of the game, I’d definitely recommend a watch.
It should be noted that Love was 2-8 through the first three quarters...
…and something like 3-7 from the free throw line. He got caught trying to play outside his game, especially in the third quarter. Admirable fight to keep playing and “break even” in the fourth, but let’s be honest: Love was a big reason we went down 18 in the first place.
Also, saying he's better than anyone else on the team...
…speaks more about how bad the team is, not how good Love is. Only his rebounding really stands out as special. To me, the rest just seems special because of who it’s being compared to.
Yet he still ended up a net positive
while many of the guys who were in with him did not. So they still contributed more to that -18
Indeed
Just pointing out that Love wasn’t great all game. Wolves fans have had a habit this year of hammering on Al and Flynn and Corey for every little thing, but never criticizing Love at all.
Oh for sure
Love doesn’t come without faults by any means. But overall, he has done better and been more consistent than the rest of the team.
have to agree with you
I think everyone could just tell how much better (relatively) the team got with him back and as a result we don’t tend rip him too hard on anything. Love’s biggest weakness in my opionion has to do with turning the ball over on the offensive end when he is in the pinch post. When he passes and he isn’t using his full strength, the angle he takes makes the passes much easier to steal.
by TheEvilProfessor on Jan 2, 2010 9:57 AM CST up reply actions
Olympic Squad
Let’s hope Jerry Colangelo has taken notice of Love’s play. There is no question he would look great wearing a USA uniform and being the perfect complimentary piece to the superstars.
He had a great showing at the Team USA Select camp
Third best behind Durant and Rudy Gay, by the reports. Love’s game is really suited for that style of play.
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