The Bill Clinton Test
by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 4, 2009 10:36 PM CST
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- Al Jefferson didn't have a great game (the interior defense was lacking tonight) but he did look a bit lighter on his feet than he has all season. He had a fast break dunk and a nice put back that was great to see.
- Corey Brewer must be in some kind of doghouse. Last night he logged just 17:28 and the majority of his lost minutes went to Wayne Ellington, who was able to hit some of the open shots that are frequently given to wing players in the Wolves' system.
- Speaking of wing players, as I mentioned up above, this game was conspicuously lacking anything approaching decent wing play on both teams. Both of these squads need better small forward play in a bad, bad way.
- As a 2 win squad the Wolves have no business chalking up losses due to referring, but last night's game featured some of the shoddiest officiating in recent memory, highlighted by one of the most baffling calls right before the half where Chris Paul jumped about 5 feet to the side just across half court to draw a three shot foul on Ryan Hollins, who just happened to be running up the court. I suppose the pro-Paul side of this argument could be that Paul was simply being the crafty veteran by taking advantage of refs who he knew would make the call in his favor, but in my mind this play is no different than flopping. Paul acted in a way that he (rightly) suspected would draw a call that had no business of being called. It was WWE/game managing referring at its very worst. It cost the Wolves 3 points. Later on in the game the refs looked away at a James Posey ball slam and there were at least 3-4 plays where Wolves players were hacked going to the rim. Again, not something that you can chalk up a loss because of but it was distracting nonetheless.
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It was nice seeing Love
back out there. His uncanny knack for rebounding is great for the Wolves. He just seems to be a basketball player. The thing I will be watching the rest of the season is Love’s long range shooting. If his shot really is better than last year he becomes the projected PF on this team for the next decade.
Not sure if Brewer is in the doghouse, but I prefer him being a 20 MPG player. He just strikes me as a player who will be valuable long term playing the right 20 MPG, but he loses value if he is on the floor too much and in the wrong situations.
As to Chris Paul, I can’t believe Shinn is going to let them have contracts like Taylor allowed or made McHale put together. Shinn doesn’t seem like someone who wants to lose money unless winning is guaranteed. Kahn keeps talking about how hard he works, I hope he is on the phone daily with the Hornets front office. Paul will get traded before the end of next season.
We saw the same game
As to Love:
My favorite T-Wolf. It was great to see him back, and great to see the energy that he brings. They were instantly a better team with him on the floor, and the glove is a nice (albeit hopefully temporary) look. The long distance shooting is something that can make him a truly magnificent player. One thing, though – I was to understand that he lost some weight over the summer, but he still looks a little wide. With just a little more quickness, he could be stellar.
Jefferson had a good line on the stat sheet, but as usual when he shot I many times felt a moment’s “oh no.”
The refs seemed to have decided before the game that CP3 would get the calls and taht the Hornets were to be favored. It didn’t decide the game, but it certainly swung a few points in NOLA’s direction.
And finally, echoing Britt’s point from the other day, there is every reason to believe that the team is not always playing to win. Sessions was great in the first half, and mysteriously absent in the second minutes-wise. I understand that Flynn needs reps, but this was a winnable game, and with the right lineup it could have gone the Wolves’ way.
In all, a very enjoyable game to watch. It’s great to have Love back. At only 21, he has the potential to be a top-30 player in the NBA during his prime. A win, or even a closer game at the end, would have been nice. But I’ll take the signs of hope.
I totally had us winning this one until I saw Paul was playing
Love looked pretty good though. Hopefully he can be consistent with that three point shot, and he should get to the line more as he gets over the mental hurdle of his injury.
I also was happy to see Wayne out there, and was miffed as well as to why Corey didn’t play much.
thought obvious
I thought it was obvious why Brewer was not playing more. He made several turnovers and other mental mistakes and Rambis just took him out of the game. He needs to play smarter sometimes. Still working on channeling that energy. Ellington looked good.
You were miffed?
Were you watching the game, or looking at the box score?
Corey had one nice early jump shot (while completely uncovered), and then a steal in the stretch right after Love came in when the Wolves made a mini-run on turnovers. Otherwise Mr. Brewer was atrocious in that game. People compared him to
a) Troy Williamson; and
b) a donkey
in the game thread, and nobody was exactly leaping out of their chair to object.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
Just that the team constantly talks about playong the young guys no matter what
That’s more where the confusion comes from.
Ellington did look really good last night though. Hopefully he can keep that up because we badly need deep shooting and some scoring punch off the bench.
Ellington isn't young?
What am I missing, here?
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
Love is the ideal player for that high post in the triangle.
Can’t wait to see the next few games and how things progress.
Love
I heard rumors that Kahn said we may be moving away from the triangle when Love is back to logging starter’s minutes, anyone know if there is any truth to this? As much as I wanna see flynn with more freedom as a PG I really wanna see how love can improve the triangle.
That would be backwards. If they aren't going to keep it in with him, they shouldn't have run it at all.
He is more suited to that high post spot than anyone else on the roster. I had a flashback last night to my 6th grade basketball coach talking about “triple threat” position. Love is a threat to make plays shooting, driving, and passing from that spot on the floor if the player movement and spacing is right. Big contrast to Al, BC, and the other guys who have taken a shot at it.
I thought Jefferson had his best game of the year . 10-17, 20 pts, 14 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 block, 1 turnover is a very, very good performance.
Kevin Love is going to be our best player this year. I can feel it.
Love and Flynn had a -1 for the game. Love and Sessions were a +4. I mention this because I’m wondering if PG performance is determined by how well the PGs work with Love (who, as everyone under the sun has mentioned, is the perfect high post player for the triangle).
Jefferson's legs were there last night, I agree
I don’t see that many games, but he looked loads healthier than even recent clips. There was a fast break he ran and finished high, as well as a tip dunk, that both stood out as stuff he’d never have been doing as of October 31st.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
The Beast is back!
That was a football lineman’s glove. Think Jared Allen, not Michael Jackson.
by Dave T on Dec 5, 2009 11:24 AM CST via mobile reply actions
As we said at the time
it was a padded bowler’s glove.
Though Hanny described it as “specially made for basketball,” we know the truth. Love looks more like a bowler, anyway.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
Love
It was good to see Love hitting threes. That’ll help him become a more useful offensive player. His stroke looks really good.
He got stuffed a few times, and I think that’ll probably be the case throughout his career. He’ll just need to continue to get smarter about shot selection, which probably won’t be a problem for him. He has a good BBIQ.
His return is going to help a lot. That was clear from last night’s game. Hopefully we can start getting a few W’s.
New Starting Lineup?
PG- Jonny Flynn
SG- Corey Brewer
SF- Ryan Gomes
PF- Kevin Love
C- Al Jefferson
I would like that lineup- rookie and everyone from last season.
Last night the consensus was:
PG – Sessions
SG- Brewer or Ellington
SF – Gomes
PF – Love
C – Jefferson
Though, I like putting Brewer at SF and bringing Gomes of the bench with Flynn…
Why?
I think it definitely should be Corey over Wayne currently. I like Wellington, but currently believe that Brewer is better and needs to start playing well THIS season. He hasn’t gotten injured yet, so this should be the year he must improve.
I like Sessions starting, but just think Minnesota will keep Jonny as the starter most of the time.
Love PER
Well, after 24 minutes of playing time, he is 12th in the league at about 25. If he can stay above 20 for PER this season, that would be solid.
As part of the discussion last night, Love has unique skills for a big man and is an absolutely nightmarish match-up if he consistently starts hitting the 3. For all of McHale’s failings as GM, he certainly identified Love as a special talent. McHale just had no idea about how to evaluate guards and wing players…
Anyway, the Mayo – Love swap that cleared salary and added Miller looks potential like the best trade of McHale’s tenure. Also, the trade of Davis and Blount would be tops right now. I’m not saying that McHale did a good job, but he and the FO made some strong decisions to get under the cap, prior to Kahn’s arrival.
With all that being said, I don’t think McHale would have traded away Miller and Foye. To me that was a necessary step to rebuild a championship team, rather than a mediocre team. Right now Miller and Foye for Rubio looks pretty brilliant by Kahn. Miller is winding down his career, Foye is hardly playing, and Washington is not any better. I bet they wish they’d drafted at 5 now…
Let’s hope the last 15 games have been rock bottom for the wolves, and they grow from here. This team has the assets and cap space to build a contending team, more so than any time in the last 5 years…
I have no doubt that Wiz wish they wouldn’t have made that trade. Foye is non-existent and Miller is, once again, out. Foye is probably one of the more disappointing players of this season. Boykins is taking all those minutes off the bench and once Miller is back Foye’s minutes could shrink even more. The rights alone to Rubio are worth significantly more than Miller/Foye today.
by TWolvesFanInLA on Dec 5, 2009 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
Rubio is worth significantly more than Miller/Foye only for the Wiz.
When you have a team full of all-stars or close to it, it’s hard to get Foye to play a lot.
Absolutely nightmarish match-up
Isn’t that a bit of a stretch? That’s how I’d describe Kobe, LeBron and Wade.
Even if Love becomes a consistent three-point shooter, the way Channing Frye has, I don’t think he’s quick enough to beat his man off the dribble or big enough to score on the block. His production will come off of rebounds and passes in the offense.
Love is a good player, but let’s not get carried away with how tough of a guy he is to guard. There are taller NBA players that are better perimeter shooters, who nobody would call a nightmarish match-up.
shorter
there are also shorter NBA players that are nightmare match ups in the post and dangerous from 15 feet. See Boozer, Carlos. Love is not too short, everyone gets their shot blocked, he’ll be fine.
I'd go further..
…he’d be effectively unguardable if he hit the 3 near 37%. He’s not the type of guy like you mention who can go one one one, but for what he is in the team’s system, he’d be an amazingly tough guard.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Shane Battier
Is one of the most offensively and athletically limited players in the NBA by far. He is basically a spot-up shooter with no ability to create whatsoever. His worth is his defensive ability and his knowledge of how to play the game and (like Love) make every play he can go in favor of his team.
As limited as Love is, he has far more offensive versatility than Shane. It wouldn’t be a stretch to say that he’s better than Shane in all 3 phases with the ball in his hands (shooting, passing, dribbling) as well as being a ridiculously good rebounder. Shane is orders of magnitude better as a defender, but I really think you’re selling Love short in comparison just because they’re both smart and not too athletic.
Put it another way...
Would you ever double team Kevin Love?
And if not, wouldn’t you agree that a player who commands a double-team is automatically a tougher matchup than him?
It takes a lot of explaining to support this notion that Kevin Love is a nightmare matchup, but I’d welcome anybody who can give it a crack.
I'm with you.
He’s a fabulous player, but I’ve always seen him as someone who can take advantage of a lack of attention, not someone who commands a lot himself.
Right...
And I really like Love as a player, and I’m growing to his fit on this team. But I still get frustrated with what I think is hyperbole used to discuss his game and his value.
I hope he has a great game tonight, and can’t be guarded by Boozer or Millsap.
Speaking of which, time to head to the game. Hope it’s a good one.
Kevlar
the way he’ll attract doubles is in attempts to keep him off the glass. His presence in that area beyond his 11 rebounds last night can be seen in the Team vastly outperforming there previous rebounding numbers. I’m a bit confused why you would need to double a big 22 feet away from the basket. I would say Love would require quite a bit more skill as a finisher before he gets to the level to require doubles on the block. Although last year’s late season- Utah Home Game leads me to some thought he could develop into that kind of player.
it doesn't matter...
…that they don’t double him. what matters is what he does with his coverage, and with the coverage he is going to get, and with the way he can pass, he’s a matchup nightmare if he can hit the 3. he’ll be a top 20 player without really being a top20 player….if that makes any sense. and no, i don’t feel that way about battier because he doesn’t have anywhere near the offensive tools as does llove.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
"the coverage he is going to get"
That’s kind of my point — he’s not going to get the serious defensive attention that “matchup nightmares” get. If he were Carmelo Anthony or LeBron James (true matchup nightmares) there would be specific gameplans to help the opposing coaches sleep at night.
Hopefully, Love will be able to develop a role where he gets open jumpers off of Jefferson’s post game, and pick & roll action with Flynn and Sessions.
I’m going to stop commenting on the Love hyperbole so much — I really enjoy watching the guy and want to see him succeed. I’m just not seeing the hall of fame potential that others see. If the Wolves become a 50+ win team, make a few deep playoff runs, and Love is our best player, I’ll obviously change my thinking.
I agree
In that putting Love as a “nightmare” might be hyperbolic (while pointing out that you might be exaggerating his praises as HOF potential beforehand). But he doesn’t need serious defensive attention to be a tough matchup. A big man who can stretch the defense, make passes all over the court, and rebound like a madman? That’s a rare breed of player.
His versatility is the matchup problem because he’ll still be effective no matter what way opponents try to mitigate him. His matchup problems will stem from the fact that he’ll make his teammates more effective and keep possessions alive.
Opponents have to be prepared for anything. Unless you’re a force of nature like your Lebrons or Shaqs of the world, balance and versatility are the best ways to keep opponents on their toes with matchup difficulty. If you have one fantastic skill and very few other strengths, they can make you ineffective pretty easily. Not true if you have too many options for most post defenders to effectively control.
Not exaggerating
There are posters here who think Love is headed to the Hall. Read some of the comments — I know Jose Cordoba feels that way, given his “better scoring Wes Unseld” remarks. Unseld was a league MVP and voted Top 50 of all time. A better version of him would be a first ballot hall of famer. SnP isn’t too far behind — he just wrote that if Love can hit the three (which it certainly appears he can) he’ll be a Top 20 guy. Top 20 guys are All Stars, and possibly Hall of Famers.
There are people that view Love as an incredible player, with almost no equal in the league. That’s who I have disagreements with.
I suppose that makes sense
I guess I just assumed the HOF dreams were so out of reach that you must’ve made it up, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe everyone’s misreading each others’ projections and comparisons a little bit (me included).
I think SnP’s “Top 20 without being Top 20” possibility is Love’s best-case. I see more of a possible uniquely-skilled All-Star peak than an Unseld/Barkley comparison. I think it’s safe to say he’s a starter on a good team, especially on a team that meshes well with his strengths and weaknesses.
I know it’s been posted before, but you are right to point out that Kahn inherited (v. created) most of the roster flexibility the team has now. I wouldn’t go quite as far as brilliant on the Rubio trade – depends on if/when he comes, and what kind of trade value they get if he is traded.
Love could be a really unique player and tough draw for defenders every night. It’s projection right now of course, but the signs are there. Watching him develop this year will be reason enough to follow the team.
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