Prowling the NBA: Dec 5 - The best laid plans
Even as I'm typing this right now, the NBA world is burning. Greg Oden has, once again, gone down with a serious injury. He's a prodigy. He's overrated. He's athletic. He's injury-prone. He might become the best center in the NBA. He might never play again. No one really knows what Greg Oden is, and the jury is going to be out a lot longer now.
What we do know is Portland's master plan just went up in those flames. Outlaw is already out for the year. Batum might be too. Andre Miller is not fitting in and Roy is being a diva about it. And now the linchpin for the Blazers' hopes and dreams, the player who might actually be more important to them than Brandon Roy, appears to have been struck by the curse that seems to afflict all promising Portland big men.
There's other teams who are building up or tearing down their plans for the immediate future, and we'll cover those here too (as well as several Wolves items to talk about at the end), but let's start off with Oden.
Greg Oden is badly badly hurt:
I'm right now monitoring several boards and blog sites for updates on this, but just by watching that video, anyone can tell it's serious. The injury happened when Aaron Brooks collided with Oden's knee on the way to the hoop. Oden was down for a good 7 minutes, and ultimately had to be carried off the floor on a stretcher.
Via one of the boards I'm refreshing, a sideline reporter for Blazers Radio is saying it's a fractured left patella, which would effectively end Oden's season right now, and possibly even his career. The injury itself looks eerily similar to the one Shaun Livingston suffered two years ago, from which he is still trying to recover from to this day.
Ok, ESPN has just confirmed it: fractured left patella.
Blazer fans are in a panic. Browsing their threads and blogs for info, I'm coming across a constant cascade of direness that can effectively be summed up as "the season's over, time to tank for John Wall". I've even read a few posts heavily criticizing Portland golden boy Kevin Pritchard, who has already lost some luster over the Andre Miller saga.
Ah, Twitter update: Portland GM Kevin Pritchard says Brooks never hit Oden's leg. The injury is "non impact". Very definitely Shaun Livingston-esque.
I'm concerned by the lack of movement in Oden's leg while he was on the floor. You could see as the trainer was talking to him, his legs were spasming and he looked like he was trying to kick his left foot out, but couldn't. The knee was bent at a greusome angle, and the lack of tension in it that was preventing him from moving his left shin usually indicates torn ligaments or nerve damage.
Livingston's injury occured much like Greg's...no contact. Shaun landed awkwardly from an open court, routine layup, and ended up dislocating his kneecap and tearing both his ACL and PCL.
Oden will undergo surgery and a definite rehab timeline will be set then, but nothing in Oden's history or the nature of this sort of injury would suggest he'll play again this year, and it's possible he might be done for good if his rehab doesn't go perfectly. For now, we can simply pray Oden recovers from this.
Portland is now without Travis Outlaw, Greg Oden, and possibly Nic Batum for the season, and one top of that...
Portland is shopping Andre Miller. Plus the Rockets are shopping McGrady and the Sixers are shopping Elton Brand
Blazers: Oden's injury certainly changes the game plan here. The original intent was to trade Miller for an athletic wing to replace Outlaw for the year, but now finding a big man is a much more pressing concern for the Blazers.
Miller hasn't found a comfort level with the Blazers, nor the Blazers with him. As reported last week, Brandon Roy went as far as to subtly blame Miller for Portland's recent struggles, and Nate McMillan's somewhat baffling decision to let Roy decide how the team would handle that is certainly what has led the Blazers to look for trade options. Miller can't be traded until the 15th, but it seems basically inevitable he will be eventually.
Rockets: Houston don't want TMac back, it's as simple as that. They're 100% invested in Aaron Brooks and Trevor Ariza now, and don't want to jeopardize the chemistry they're building. But Houston is also having a hard time finding takers for McGrady because he's coming off of an injury and isn't playing.
If the Rockets want to move TMac, they're going to have to bite the bullet and play him at some point. The team has said it would be willing to take back long term deal as possibly an incentive to just unload McGrady hassle free, but I doubt any team will take him, even as an expiring, until it's proven he can play at least a little still.
Sixers: Brand is unhappy with his new bench role, but he also doesn't fit with the team. And other teams don't think Brand, who makes $14.8 million this season, has enough left to merit taking on that contract.
"No, I don't accept it," Brand said of not starting. "I don't think I've done anything to merit a bench spot. We're not winning either way, so I'd rather be out there and give us the best chance." Yet the Sixers put Brand back into the starting lineup tonight and he got lit up by Boris Diaw in a one point loss to the Bobcats.
Some team will eventually decide it needs post scoring and Brand is the best player available (Houston...?) Until then, Brand is a good player matched with a bad team, getting paid more than he probably should be.
And there's one more trade rumor...
The Bulls are reportedly discussing a trade for Al Harrington:
To which the immediate reaction should by "why???"
The rumored deal is Al Harrington for Tyrus Thomas and Jerome James. But that trade ultimately helps neither team. The Knicks get a half-year rental of Thomas and clear no additional cap space for this summer, which is the only way any mid-season trade will be relevant for them. The Bulls give up assets and still don't get the low post scorer they need.
ESPN's Ric Bucher said that he called around and no such deal was in discussion, but there are too many sources saying the same things for that to appear to be true.
If the Bulls are indeed seeking to deal Thomas for a player as generally bad as Harrington, should perhaps the Wolves be in this discussion?
Ok, now that we're past the trade chatter, back to the headlines.
The New Jersey Nets set a new record for the worst start in NBA history:
0-18 to start the season, after a loss to the Dallas Mavericks. But so much happened in New Jersey before this, and after.
Before:
The Nets have fired head coach Lawrence Frank:
It isn't entirely fair, but it was inevitable. "It's tough, because he was the hardest worker on the team," center Brook Lopez said. "He's so passionate about what he does. It was a rough situation, and he did a great job of not using our injuries as an excuse. He came in every night and had us prepared."
Frank, quite frankly, just didn't have much to work with. Mass injuries depleted the Nets early this year, with a few games where Brook Lopez was the only usual starter in the lineup. And even healthy, the Nets lack quality talent. Could Frank have gotten them to win one of those 18 if he had pushed harder? Probably. But the bottom line is you can't trade away your only franchise player, Vince Carter, and not expect to seriously fall off.
Nets fans weren't terribly pleased with Frank, but then again, they weren't pleased with any part of the team. They expressed regret over the firing, although they also echoed its inevitability.
"This is an completely undeserved termination RIGHT NOW. Frank got the most out of what he had & unfortunately it didn't translate too many wins. Firing him now i don't think was the best move, at least give him the end of the season. What bugs me out is that Kiki wanted to fire Frank when he first got the GM job but Thorn refused & went as far as to follow the team on their West Coast trip so he could scout the players. A little shady, but we'll see what happens."
"I guess management is trying to light a fire under the players or something. Good luck with that. I kind of feel bad for the guy. This start wasn't all his fault, but he's taking the blame. Still, this is much easier to understand than the Hornets firing Byron Scott."
As for what's next for the Nets...
Net's general manager Kiki Vandeweghe will coach the rest of the season, with Del Harris his top assistant:
Vanderweghe and Harris worked together as assistants in Dallas previously, so this makes some sense. Also sensible is that, with new ownership on the horizon, hiring a permanent replacement coach would almost certainly be a waste of money. Prochov will probably want to name a head coach he's picked next year anyway.
In the meantime, Vanderweghe is a solid, if somewhat reluctant, choice to finish out the season. When asked if he wanted to coach, he said, "Not until Rod called me yesterday. But it's a challenge, and you embrace the challenge. I'm sure all the coaches I've had are laughing at me right now."
As for a possible permanent coach...
Patrick Ewing says he'd love to coach the Nets:
Or any team, really. Ewing has been gunning for a head coaching job for a couple of years now, while working as an assistant with the Magic to develop Dwight Howard.
Ewing's permanent home is in New Jersey. The subject came up when the Magic visited Madison Square Garden to play the Knicks.
"Of course. I would be back home. I still live in New Jersey. I just want an opportunity. Yes, I would love to coach the Nets."
However, since firing Frank...
The Nets finally won their first game of the season:
A 97-91 victory over the Charlotte Bobcats. The Nets received a well-deserved standing ovation at the end of what can only be described as a gutsy performance, and took the win and it's context in stride. The Nets were most boosted by the return of Courtney Lee, who threw in 27 points, but Brook Lopez and Devin Harris both had strong performances as well.
''It's just one at the end of the day,'' guard Chris Douglas-Roberts said. ''It's one win. We wanted it to get it out of the way. It means a lot. We did it. We can't be satisfied with it. We've got to move forward and put something together."
''This game is a game of runs, and so we had our run and we knew they were going to come back and attack us again,'' Lee said. ''It was just if we had enough character and poise to take that hit and continue to play through it.''
''For me, I was happy for the players,'' Vandeweghe said. ''This has been a bit of a struggle. I'm not going to sugarcoat it. It was tough, tough on everybody.''
The Nets are still without enigmatic power forward Yi Jianlian, and all the off-court issues with the probable new ownership and possible move aren't helping either, but it's one step at a time for New Jersey. In the grand scheme of master plans, the Nets aren't even to the rough draft yet.
Now for the latest on Allen Iverson.
Allen Iverson has returned to the Philadelphia 76ers:
He's slated to re-debut with the Sixers Monday against the Nuggets (the irony...it hurts...)

I'll start by saying I'm delighted about this. I'm a big Iverson fan and this is the best situation he could have landed in after everything that has happened.
The Sixers are reeling, having lost both Louis Williams and Jrue Holiday to injury, and need scoring ability and guard play in the worst way. Iverson will have a chance to step in and immediately take over (or more aptly, pick up where he left off). The Sixers still have two key players from his first run with the team...Andre Iguodala and Sam Dalembert....and with Elton brand fuming, Iverson should and probably will have free reign on the court.
Iguodala immediately gave his approval to bringing back Iverson. "That was pretty easy," he said. "I think all the guys on our team, whether they've played with him or not, realize what he can do. He can play."
8 weeks from now? Well, that's another story. No one has said what Iverson's role will be when Williams returns, and given the revelation of that situation playing out badly in Memphis, one would think a long talk with Eddie Jordan is coming up for AI.
Also worth watching is how Iverson reacts to the presence of owner Ed Snider and General Manager Ed Stefanski, both of whom Iverson had tense relationships with when he demanded out of Philly three years ago. Remember, the Sixers banned Iverson from the team before he was traded.
Stefanski was welcoming in his words, deflecting away from their past issues and showing encouragement for Iverson. "If there's going to be a chance for him to do it and make it work, there's no doubt in my mind Philadelphia is the best spot for him to try and do it," Stefanski said. "He's like a rock star."
Snider was less hospitable, giving nothing more than a terse, "I support him [Stefanski] and his basketball decisions."
Iverson meanwhile was moved to the point of tears in his press conference. ''I thought my basketball life was over,'' he said. But then I got a chance to come home, it was an opportunity I couldn't turn down. This is a blessing, a great day for me. I have fans all over the world. But the relationship I have with the these fans is like no other. I have a love for them and they love me.''
Iverson is signed to a non-guaranteed (although it's basically guaranteed because of Philly's injuries) contract pro-rated off the veteran's minimum...pocket change by comparison to his peers, but "The whole situation wasn't about the contract and the money," Iverson's agent, Leon Rose, told The Associated Press. "It was about the opportunity and the chance to come to Philadelphia."
"Without really seeing him on the floor, I would like to compare him to Brett Favre, a guy who people think is too old to play and he's almost having an MVP year," Jordan said.

Ok so there might be an element of "I'm retired no wait I'm not" comparison in that as well...
And the other piece of Iverson news is...
Grizzlies owner Michael Heisley finally told the truth about what happened with Iverson. If you believe him, that is:
I'll let you read it yourselves:
"The trainer said I don't want him playing in the first two or three games but when he starts to play we should play him about 15 minutes. We're going to watch him very closely and bring him along slowly otherwise he's going to injure this leg again. So that's the directions Lionel got. He played him 18 minutes in the first game when we told him 15 minutes. Which was fine and Allen did well. He scored 11 points in 18 minutes I think."
"So in the 2nd game, if I remember correctly, he played 25 minutes and he scored like 17 points. Now he went to the press and started bitching about not being the starter. I think he was being a little ridiculous to think he could be put out there after he's coming off that leg injury and be the starter and that he had earned it like he said he wanted to do."
"Lionel then had a meeting with him and the team; with all of the stuff that was going on around the team and Allen was very upset. I was in the Middle East when this took place and I flew for 29 hours and when I got home I heard there was a problem and I flew out to the West Coast. I met with Lionel and I met with Allen and I thought things were going to be straightened out."
"Allen came to me that night and said he had a problem at home that he had to take care of, which I believed to be true and I still do believe, and I told him to take as much time as he needed to take care of his personal problem and so he left."
Yet frighteningly enough, that's not nearly the most disorienting quote of the week. This is.
Ron Artest says he drank before games and at halftime:
And I'm not talking Gatoraid people.
"I used to drink Hennessy ... at halftime," Artest said in an interview with the Sporting News, which is publishing the story in its Dec. 7 issue. "I [kept it] in my locker.
Hennesy is a French cognac. Hard liquor. Before games. At halftime. Are we really surprised? We should be, and yet, somehow I'm not at all. Just another bizzare aspect of Ron's borderline psychotic life I guess.
Now, before I forget again, I have something that I forgot to post in last week's update.
Jason Kidd is now second all time in assists:
Kidd overtook Mark Jackson in a game against Houston with an allyoop to rookie Rodrigue Beaubois to put his total at 10,335. It's an incredible accomplishment by one of the most creative faciliatators ever to play the game, even if he's understated about it.
"The stats will take care of themselves and after my career, I will reflect on them," said Kidd, who ranks third in the NBA with 9.4 assists per game this season. "Some records are meant to stay where they are, and the all-time assist number of John Stockton is going to stay there for a long time."
I would go as far as to say Stockton's record is permanent. We might as well perma-plaque it now. To put Stockton's assist total into perspective, Kidd, assuming he averages 9.1apg all this year, would need to average 20apg over the next three years to catch Stockton (15,806 career assists, first all time) in the same amount of time John played (19 seasons).
Stockton averaged 13 assists/game between 87-97. That, combined with nearly two decades of playing, makes his assist record basically uncatchable.
Even so, a standing e-ovation to Kidd.
Ok, finally we have some Timberwolves things for you all to talk about.
The Timberwolves are looking closely at Rudy Gay:
I broke this story earlier this week, so many of you have already posted your thoughts, but I have more to add now.
Originally, the story was first posted by Hoopshype:
An NBA source close to the situation informed your friendly neighborhood columnist this week that the Minnesota Timberwolves have eyes for Memphis Grizzlies swingman Rudy Gay. After turning down a contract extension that was reportedly worth $10 million a year from Memphis in early November, Gay is set to become a restricted free agent this summer.
The Wolves are in need of an impact wing player and believe Gay could be that guy. Minnesota is watching closely how he performs this season. The source indicated that the one concern the Wolves have with regard to Gay is whether or not he will develop that "killer instinct" late in ballgames.
Now, the interesting thing that came up after I posted this is that Dime Magazine, picking up on something the Pioneer Press posted, wrote that there was a potential trade offer to swap Ricky Rubio for Gay.
My take on that? Ick.
But Rudy Gay is most definitely high on my list of desired acquisitions. He's shown heart and has become a defensive force this year. And he is, as always, an extremely impressive athlete.
"So far he's played great since he didn't sign the extension," Grizzlies coach Lionel Hollins said. "His game is a lot more settled and poised. He's not as frantic as he used to be. He's maturing. He's scoring, his shooting percentage is up, he's rebounding better, he's getting to the free-throw line better. And his defense is picking up -- he's getting more deflections and just being more aware on defense. That's what you would expect from a guy who's been in the league for four years."
Our own Ryan Gomes added, "He looks like he's even more aggressive taking the ball to the basket. He's been a scorer -- it's not like his game has gone eight [points per game] to 20. But I'm thinking he has the contract on his mind. He's playing, maybe, with a little more chip on his shoulder. That can be a good thing. In order for them to win, he's going to have to keep being that aggressive."
Gay turned down a 5 year, $50million extension from the Grizzlies over the summer, and is reportedly seeking 5 years, $65million....similar to the contract LaMarcus Aldridge just signed with the Trailblazers. Is he worth that much? Probably not (nor is Aldridge...), but more importantly he's unlikely to get any offers that high. I think the Wolves could get him for 5 years, $55million over the summer, or even better, via a very reasonable trade (Gomes and a draft pick?) sometime in the next two months.
What do you guys think?
Anyway, the other Wolves news is my promised weekly draft watch, starting off with some speculation from Chad Ford.
Weekly draft watch:
Chad Ford says:
GM David Kahn drafted three point guards in the first round last year -- Ricky Rubio, Jonny Flynn and Ty Lawson (he later traded Lawson to Denver). Then he signed another point guard, Ramon Sessions, as a free agent. Would he really draft another point in 2010?
(John) Wall has something that neither Flynn nor Rubio nor Session possesses -- otherworldly athleticism. Flynn is a great athlete, but undersized. Rubio has great size, but isn't a great athlete. Sessions falls somewhere in the middle. On the other hand, Wall isn't quite the shooter that Flynn is, nor does he possess the amazing court vision of Rubio.
Given all the complexity and assets at the point, it would seem like (Derrick) Favors might be a better fit. However, Kahn's other two young building blocks are Al Jefferson and Kevin Love -- two players who play the same two positions as Favors. While neither player has the length or athleticism of Favors, they are both more skilled, especially down on the low block.
(Evan) Turner would fill a glaring hole at the wing for the Wolves, but the question is, if the Wolves get the No. 1 pick, would they take him that high?
I did a little snooping around Minnesota and I think Wall would still get the nod there. There would be a robust trade market for Flynn and/or Rubio if the Wolves were to take Wall.
EDGE: John Wall
Personally I think Kahn would be split 50/50 between Wall and Favors if we land the top pick, mainly because Flynn and Rubio are his guys, while Jefferson and Love were inheritences from McHale.
Thoughts?
The status of our picks:
Charlotte pick - lottery protected, Cats currently 8th in the east
Utah pick - top 17 protected, Utah currently 6th in west
Currently we're on track to get both picks.
The draftees we're watching:
John Wall:
What's impressive - the poise. Wall is clearly a facilitator, born to run an offense. What's been most telling so far this year is his control and leadership. He looks far more polished and comfortable than Rose or Evans did at this point in their freshman years.
Wall struggled today in his first major test against UNC, posting a ton of turnovers. But he also scored well and led Kentucky to the win.
Derrick Favors:
What's impressive - the basketball IQ. Favors has done two major things so far this year at Gerogia Tech that show the kind of player he is.
First, he understands that, while he may be the popular new kid in town, the team belongs to Gani Lawal, and he's deferring to Lawal without being Robin. It's a very fine rope to walk, but so far Favors has shown perfect balance.
Second, he's shooting a ridiculous, and I mean absolutely ridiculous, 72% from the field. That's not only staggering efficiency, but a crystal clear display of something very few freshman ball players have: shot selection.
Evan Turner:
What's impressive - the versatility. Turner came into today's game averaging absurd numbers across the board: 20.6 points, 13 rebounds, 6.6 assists, 1.7 steals, 1.4 blocks. He can do it all at both ends of the court.
Unfortunately, as S-n-P posted earlier today, Turner fractured his back in a hard fall after a dunk attempt. So this update is going to be more of an injury report for the next two months, and has a good chance of ending with "returning for his senior year". Evan is lucky he wasn't knocked out cold; Shawn Marion and Gerald Wallace both have sustained multiple concussions on plays just like that.
Cole Aldrich:
What's impressive - the size. Which sounds like a really stupid thing to say since it's not a skill or ability, but honestly the most impressive thing about Aldrich is how he knows he's just bigger than anyone else and plays like it.
He takes up a ton of space in the post and uses his big frame to pin defenders under the hoop, box out on rebounds, and clog the lanes on defense. A lot of big men in college play small because playing big takes practice. Aldrich though is a natural.
Wesley Johnson:
What's impressive - the confidence. Johnson is a transfer to Syracuse, having spent his first two years at Iowa State. His second year was a disaster...Johnson was dealing with nagging leg injuries and a redefined role as a swingman, rather than a tweener forward.
This year has been pure resurgence for Wesley. He's not just back to his freshman level, he's exceeded it by all accounts. He's been playing some swingman for the Orange, but he's also been allowed to operate in the paint more as well, and is posting his best numbers across the board. He's athletic and dynamic, and knows how to score.
All battle plans fail when contact with the enemy is made.
The NBA is no different. Sometimes injuries happen. Sometimes salary caps go down. Sometimes players fail to meet expectations, or cause drama, or bail out.
The Wolves have a final draft of the master plan, but it's just now seeing its first contest. The team is finally healthy. Assessments can finally be made.
How will we look in 5 years? What things will have happened that will have forced us to adjust? Detour? Rewrite?
No one knows. For now, we take it one week at a time, and I think this week the best thing we can all do is follow the lead Kevin Durant just Tweeted:
Man please pray for my bro Greg Oden as well..
Will do Kevin.
Until next week...
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125 comments
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Comments
Great post
The two players that i really like in this years draft, even more that wall, are Aldrich and Turner. Turner off course fills a glaring hole at the 2 spot, but the player that i really want to get is Cole ALdrich. If you watch Aldrich play, it is very impressive. He can post up really well, and he can finish with both hands. He also plays great post defense, which is something that has remained non-existant since KG left. He laso makes Al Jefferson a trade assest, and out of that we can get either draft picks or a player like Rudy Gay. Imagine this, we trade Ryan Gomes and Sessions for Rudy Gay, then we trade Big Al for an extra top-ten pick. And with those two picks we can draft Cole Aldrich and Evan Turner.
Then we have a starting lineup of …
pg-Jonny Flynn, (maybe some low grade free agents, and then Ricky Rubio??? HMMM)
sg-Evan Turner, Corey Brewer, Wayne Ellington
sf-Rudy Gay, Corey Brewer
pf-Kevin Love, Nathan Jawai, Olgeskey Pecherov
c-Cole Aldrich, Ryan Hollins, Olgeskiey Pecherov<—-I know i spelled his name wrong
Thats a very young and very talented core with a lot of potential, what do you think, can this actually happen or is it just wishful thinking?
by AT-360 on Dec 6, 2009 9:19 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I've already begun to look forward to your regular posts
so thank you—the depth of around-the-league stuff is just right, and I like it being interpreted through the eyes of a Wolves’ fan.
Despite the turnovers, I still came away from the UK-NC game impressed with Wall. It was a big game for him, yet he looked cool in crunch time. A couple of times he got a long rebound and turned upcourt to go coast-to-coast. Between his size and quickness, there was no way to stop the guy other than to tackle him.
by PoorDick on Dec 6, 2009 10:49 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
UNC is by far the best team Wall has faced yet
He did very well all things considered. He’s both athletic and skilled, and has John Callipari behind him, and if Rose and Evans are any indication, guards coming out of the Callipari brand are bona fide stars
by Oceanary on Dec 6, 2009 3:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t forget CDR’s recent success as well.
Wall is going to be a total stud. That kid’s combo of size/athleticism/skill is ridiculous. I’d say he’s more of a lock than even Rose was to be a total star, and I doubt that opinion is going to change at any point this year.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
by Xand1 on Dec 7, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
im still pissed...
…About the wolves passing on cdr. He was the best player on a team with derrick rose. I think babcock said they passed on him because of foye and mccants.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 7, 2009 12:30 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
This is one of the things that doesn't get enough attention...
… when we praise or lament the Miller/Foye trade. We would still have more competent wings had we not done the deal, but would continue making personnel decisions accordingly. That is to say, Miller and Foye would be THE future at the wing for the Wolves. There would be no drafting of serious understudies or development of the next generation. We made a bunch of really, really bad personnel decisions because we were committed to incumbent starters, and I think if anything the trade cleared the ground for a little bit more perspective in the way we draft, maybe even a little bit more accuracy…
by TheH on Dec 7, 2009 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So basically, if McHale
drafts Granger over McCants and keeps Roy instead of Foye, the Wolves could have followed that up with CDR last year. WOW what a difference. Especially if they kept KG.
by Rumblebee on Dec 7, 2009 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, he still might not be drafted
because they already would have those guys. I think the point is more that they shouldn’t be doing that no matter what; they always need to stock as much talent via the draft as they can unless they can roll their pick over into an equal or better one in a future year (Charlotte’s – yes; Miami’s – not so much).
by pagingstanleyroberts on Dec 7, 2009 3:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Aldrich
I still wouldn’t take Aldrich over Al. There are other defensive big men available at the bobcats or Utah pick.
I think, assuming that he recovers fine, that drafting Turner number one would be defensible. We won’t get to see him in the Ncaa tournament now, but there’s no reason why he couldn’t have played himself into number one contention by then.
I would love to add Rudy Gay, but not for Rubio. I think Gomes’ play the last few games has shown how much impact a guy like Gay could make for us.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Dec 6, 2009 10:50 AM CST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
You can’t do it if Wall continues to look this good. I love Evan Turner, as much, if not more, than the next guy, but you can’t be the team that passed on Wall. To attempt to make a comparison, would you pass on a chance at the next Wade for the next Caron Butler? Don’t dig into the comps too much, but if it’s superstar vs. solid starter/possible all-star, you gotta go with the superstar.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
by Xand1 on Dec 7, 2009 10:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If the Wolves are picking around #4 or #5 (why assume better w/ their lottery luck)
take Aldrich to go with Love and Al. Big guys usually take a few years to develop. Aldrich can play 20 MPG the first couple years while backing up Love and Al. Maybe eventually someone needs to be moved, but as they say, that’s a great decision to have to make. The front court could be set for 8 years in this scenario, and they have a tougher presence inside when necessary.
The two wings can be filled with some combo of Pekovic, Rubio, and cap space, not to mention the Utah and Charlotte picks.
If they somehow got lucky in the draft, pick Wall and trade Flynn or Rubio to get in position to draft Aldrich.
by Rumblebee on Dec 7, 2009 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
At this point
I am not sure that I would trade Flynn or Rubio to get Aldrich. You might be able to swing Pekovic + something to get a big exchange or something along that line. Hell maybe Pekovic + Sessions for the pick to get Aldrich and someother role player on the wing? Rubio has too high of a ceiling to trade for Aldrich and now that Flynn appears to be getting the whole PG position you are going to trade him to try to teach a new point how to play? I am guessing that they would like to either bring him along slowly to build him up right or get more from Flynn than a backup big. Just saying.
by TheEvilProfessor on Dec 7, 2009 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
From what I've seen so far, I'm not sure Aldrich will be any better than Brad Miller
He has more of a post game than Brad, but less court vision. The build and athleticism are similar though.
Maybe the best comparison is a healthy Todd Macculloch, for those of you who remember him.
I definitely don’t see Aldrich panning out at the top 3 pick he’s penciled as right now. Too many limitations, and he appears so far to very much be a system player. I think as the year goes on, Derrick Favors will strongly emerge as the best big man in this draft, because of the athletic and adaptability advantages he has over Aldrich.
by Oceanary on Dec 7, 2009 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was just throwing out that if the Wolves get the #1 (unlikely)
and Wall does project as a better PG than Derrick Rose, then they almost have no choice but to take him. The problem then becomes that every GM in the league knows Kahn has to move at least one of Flynn/Rubio, which could lower their trade value.
Also, sometimes a trade makes a team better, even when the trade isn’t totally equal. If the Wolves started next season with Wall and Aldrich, and the cost is nothing more than their own #1 pick and either Flynn or Rubio, I don’t see how that is bad. There front court is set for a decade, they have a likely All-Star at PG, and either Flynn or Rubio is still on the team and trade bait once Wall proves himself.
by Rumblebee on Dec 7, 2009 2:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or, as other people have pointed out:
If we get the number one pick, Rubio and Wall would have a chance to be a legendary backcourt.
by LoveTo on Dec 7, 2009 3:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pass on Aldrich with the top picks
He strikes me as the next BJ Mullens with a little more skill but less athleticism. As much as I really want to like the guy, I don’t like that DX’s take on him raises concerns that he’s a system guy and not necessarily a standalone stud. Granted it took Pryz a 4-5 years to figure it out, but he also was figuring it out before Portland got the young guys to be good. So Cole would need to figure it out 2-3 years earlier to reach the level of productivity that we’re expecting of him.
Having said all that, I didn’t like Brook Lopez either but he’s turned out really well. That’s the thing about big men-it’s such a crap shoot in drafting them. It seems like more often than not the ‘good’ ones (centers) under achieve while a handful live up to their promise, and more often than not a bunch of the best bigs come from really random draft spots, Europe, or somewhere else. Aldrich certainly passes the size test, and if he was the #7-10 pick I suppose I could live with it. But it just seems like he’s a combo between Thabeet and Mullens last year: like Thabeet he’s the best big available and thus will go far too high in the draft and won’t be able to live up to expectations, and like Mullens because you’re banking on the potential that he’s not a system guy but a real player (or in Mullens’ case, not just an athlete but a real player).
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Dec 7, 2009 4:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree for the most part
but you also have to remember that he isn’t a rookie. And that matters. Both in ceiling and immediate impact. Psycho T did it this year and he is nothing more than a modest contributor. He is what he is and probably won’t get any better or worse. Aldrich’s game is more suited for the NBA, so I think he will definitely be better than Hansborough, but he will never be a star. I’d take him with the Bobcats pick for sure if he was still on the board though.
by Mplax on Dec 7, 2009 5:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They would be taking Aldrich to be their 4-5 best player
and fill the role of the big lane clogger. Unfortunately big men get drafted higher than they are actually worth. It also comes down to the idea that there may not be an impact wing high in this draft, so might as well get a big guy who can fill a role for a decade. It also seems that big guys can work in the triangle without being great players. Even if he is little better than Luc Longley (how many titles does he have?) and only averages 25 MPG, he fills a role that needs to be filled.
IMO, if the Wolves enter next season with a front court of Love, AL, and Aldrich; along with retaining Flynn, Rubio, and Sessions at PG, they are set everywhere but wing for a decade. They then have the Charlotte and Utah picks, Pekovic, Flynn/Rubio and cap space to resolve those issues.
by Rumblebee on Dec 7, 2009 5:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
BJ Mullens sucked in college, though. Aldrich drops double doubles and massive block #‘s every game. Doesn’t the production count for something? The bottom line is that he’s a= 6’11 guy with massive length, solid athleticism, and decent skills who plays hard. That’s worth a lot in the NBA.
Not saying I like him as our top pick, but I think he’s going to be very useful, and a front court of Aldrich, Love and Jefferson would be among the best in the league.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
by Xand1 on Dec 8, 2009 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Box
Great point on production numbers between Mullens and Aldrich. I agree that adding Cole to our front court should dramatically improve it, but only at the right slot. I guess my main thing is that I’m not convinced he’s a top 5 guy, and there are far too many other guys available in the top 7 who, at this point, warrant a good look and may be able to help us more. I’m probably overvaluing some of them, but it’s still early in the college season. I’m sure this’ll all play itself out over the next few months.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Dec 8, 2009 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For sure. And I generally agree that if you’re talking top 5, you should be aiming for a star.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
by Xand1 on Dec 8, 2009 3:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My worthless opinion...
Aldrich is the second coming of Brook Lopez, with more upside because he is actually more interested in the game.
A few weeks ago someone disparaged Aldrich as just a 7 foot Kevin Love. Not a bad assessment, but if that is what Aldrich is, draft him high.
by timmuggs on Dec 7, 2009 10:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Greg Oden needs Phoenix, like Shaq.
Since O’Neal came to Phoenix, I don’t think he got injured once.
by KGMN on Dec 6, 2009 12:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Oden injured his left knee last February in a collision with Corey Maggette
The Blazers opted not to have Oden undergo surgery because they felt it was minor and they didn’t want to derail Oden’s progress. Obviously they’re probably second guessing that now.
Oden unfortunately has a very injury prone body. Pre-draft reports said his right leg is an inch longer than his left, which unevenly distributes impact from jumping up and down or even just running, plus some ligament problems in his knees, and the fact that he appears to carry a disproportionate amount of his weight in his upper body as opposed to his lower body.
It’s just not a good situation to be in.
by Oceanary on Dec 6, 2009 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely fantastic post! Keep it up.
As for the draft, I’m a little concerned with Turner’s latest injury and I actually think Wesley Johnson might be the better player. He doesn’t create as well as Turner but that’s not what the Wolves need, what the wolves need, is a finisher who is athletic, can create his own shot, can finish strong, play defense, and most importantly—play the 2/3. While Johnson is more of a 3/4 (though I think he could certainly handle the 2) he is everything else I just mentioned—and he’s the same age as our Love/Ellington/Flynn core. I’m 100% hoping he’s the player taken by the Wolves come June. I think he’d produce almost immediately
by SF on Dec 6, 2009 1:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Great post, thank you
This is some excellent reporting, comprehensive and deep. What a great site this is, so thanks to S&P too.
Turner’s injury might be good for us, as he may move down on the draft charts a couple of spots.
I’m an Aldrich fan, if for no other reason than it will shut up the folks that say we need a defensive big, yadda yadda. Drafting Favors will do nothing to fill that hole.
If we draft Favors, we trade Big Al, and we end up in the same spot we are in now, with more mobility. Or we keep Big Al, and we end up in the same spot we are now, with more mobility.
If we draft Wall, then we trade out Flynn or Rubio and maybe Sessions, and we start over at PG.
Seems like our team would be stellar if we end up with any two of Flynn/Rubio/Sessions at PF, Turner/Cory at SG, Gay/Brewer at SF, Love/Al at 4 and Aldrich at 5. The most expendable guy in that group, other than one of the PGs, is Big Al.
So I’m guessing that we see a trade for Gay, or a summer signing, and we draft Aldrich and Turner or another guy at that position. Big Al could be a piece in that trade.
I’ve liked Big Al, I think he’s getting it on offense with more assists, but he is the asset that will bring Gay or ALdrich or a Turner-like SG.
I’m not factoring John Wall into the equation because we are gonna win a lot more games from here on out, and the likelihood of getting the #1 or 2 pick is microscopic.
by timmuggs on Dec 6, 2009 1:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I like the Gomes/pick for Gay deal. If Memphis comes to the conclusion that they’re not going to match on Gay, replacing him with Gomes and getting a draft pick would seem like a better alternative. Not sure though if they’d do that, or if other teams over the cap might up the offer. They can have their local boy Brewer too if they want…please. Shedding Gomes and the pick would increase our cap number next year as well. If we managed to get rid of Brewer’s option and signed Gay quickly to an extention, we could potentially add another very good player depending on the cap number. Josh Childress? Brendan Haywood? Pekovic?
Draft? Turner’s injury makes him more likely to leave IMO. He’s going to be back in time to prove he’s healthy. He’s had 2 full years already and showed that he’s even better already. Why chance a more serious injury by staying in another year? Unless we’re #1 and have to decide about John Wall, Turner is my pick.
Someone mentioned trading Al for a top 10 pick? Wow. People are really eager to move a young 20/10 guy. If you’re going to move Al, it’s got to be for an established player. It’s one thing to trade guys like Miller and Foye (who realistically had a year left here), for the #5 pick, but to move a near all star big for even more youth? No way.
by Blond Ricky on Dec 6, 2009 10:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Al
I agree that Al is only 24 and too good to trade for a draft pick, and on top of that he has a pretty nice contract. The only trade Al should be dealt in is for a known player who is at or near his same level and age.
by Far East on Dec 7, 2009 2:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A second on Big Al
I agree. So many people want to get rid of Big Al. I don’t get it. He has the best low post moves in the entire league. We are seeing rumors of trades (Thomas for Harrington) that have us scratching our head. If we moved Jefferson, a lot of other people would be scratching their heads about us. And what is with the continual fascination with acquiring players with significant injuries? Turner just broke his back, but in the eyes of several posters it only serves to make him more desirable. I wouldn’t be in a rush to judgement about any college players. We also seem to be only focused on US players. I know we have two Euros-in-waiting, but some sites list other Euro players as high potential picks and we never talk about them. I trust the Wolves management is not ignoring their potential.
by ogishkemuncie on Dec 7, 2009 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Al needs to stay. While no player is untradable, you don’t throw players away. Plus we should all want to see any injured player come back to make sure they can still do the things that made them desirable in the first place.
by TheEvilProfessor on Dec 7, 2009 10:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The odds of a lottery pick...
being as valuable as Al Jefferson are not good. John Wall is obviously an exception, but all the others are up in the air, as they are every year. Derrick Favors could become Chris Bosh, or Tyrus Thomas. Evan Turner could become Brandon Roy or Ed O’Bannon. The Wolves can’t afford to make a stupid gamble like trading away Jefferson for an unknown commodity.
by Andy G on Dec 7, 2009 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed as well. You can put a big banger like Brendan Haywood behind Al and Love and cover up many of their flaws while always having a skilled offensive big in the game. Moving Al sets you back in a huge, underrated way because having a guy who can flat out get you buckets down low is a massive advantage in this league, and I find it unlikely anyone coming back in a trade/draft will be able to fill that hole.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
by Xand1 on Dec 7, 2009 11:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Flat out gets buckets.
A skill only undervalued by fans/teams with little experience in playoff basketball?
by TheH on Dec 7, 2009 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. Come crunch time, having a guy like Al down low to balance out a go-to perimeter scorer is a huge boon. I don’t think even an Aldrich/Love combo can give you that.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
by Xand1 on Dec 7, 2009 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Assuming Al continues to get healthier
he would be a top 3 pick in the next draft (certainly ahead of Aldrich). Trading him for anything less would be nuts.
by Rumblebee on Dec 7, 2009 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I also agree
and after seeing Kaman get smoked by Howard, I don’t think we need a big defensive guy very much. After all, if we are worried about who’s going to stop Howard and others like him, it’s time spent needlessly. He’s going to get his, one way or the other. Now if you have an offensive power to offset him, then you are onto something. That is where I’m at with Al, Maybe not the best defender on the floor, but he’ll get you some points and rebounds, fo’ sho’!! Keep Al and let’s get a good wingman. THAT is our biggest need right now.
Timberwolves - NBA champs 2013!
(used with permission - Wolf in MO)
by frankenhoops on Dec 9, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
When it comes to a Love Al frontcourt
people always overlook the matchup problem on the other end. They just look at the defensive matchups and say they can’t co-exist. But on the other end they are very versatile. Al on the block and Love can drift out to the 3pt line or grab the oreb and get a putback. I guess I look at a 15 foot arc where Al dominates and Love’s arc goes out past the 3 but isn’t as dominant but very solid. Having two frontcourt guys who average double doubles is very hard to defend.
But to really take advantage you need superior wing play to take advantage of the spacing caused by Love’s range. They need to be able to hit perimeter shots to make the defense stay honest and not sag. But they also should be able to take advantage of the interior space by slashing to get an Al feed from the block.
by TheEvilProfessor on Dec 9, 2009 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think to stop Howard
you must have good team defense rather than good individual defense. Obviously having a good individual defender doesn’t hurt though…
by Mplax on Dec 9, 2009 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My opinion on Turner now
is mostly the same. Everyone gets hurt sooner or later. He should be able to come back the same physically, mentally might be another question. It should lower his draft stock quite a bit just because he wont take it to the hoop the same way he has in the past for a while. Maybe we can nab him with the Charlotte pick? Injuries scare a lot of people away and not playing for a few months should too.
Nothing saying we cant draft him and Johnson if the opportunity is there and they are BPA.
My idea lineup (as I have posted a couple other times):
Rubio/Flynn
Ronnie Brewer or Childress/Turner/Brewer
Gay/Brewer/Brewer(or Childress)
Love/Pekovic/Hollins
Jefferson/Aldrich/Pekovic
We almost have too much talent in this lineup to go around. No one is really a star, but we have average shooting all around; tremendous passing at 1,2,4; athleticism 1-3; height 1-5; BBIQ everywhere except Gay and Hollins; GREAT defense 1-5; can easily go small and uptempo. The best part is, this lineup isn’t entirely unrealistic:
Draft Aldrich around 4, move up with the Bobcats pick and Utah pick plus whatever else we need (if we need to move at all) for Turner, sign Brewer or Childress in FA, get Gay and resign him. We still have Gomes, Ellington (who I still think would make a terrific PG in a crunch), and Sessions unaccounted for in terms of assets.
Obviously draft stock matters here and this might not pan out, but it’s not impossible (it could even end up that Aldrich drops and we take him with the Charlotte pick and Turner higher).
by Mplax on Dec 6, 2009 11:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Chad Ford and PG's
“There would be a robust trade market for Flynn and/or Rubio if the Wolves were to take Wall.”
This is true, but I think it’d be difficult to get full value for them. They project to be very good players, but last year’s PG-heavy draft and returning PG free agents filled many team’s plans for the point guard position. We even benefited from the lack of buyers by getting Ramon Sessions on a discount contract.
I still believe that if you have the #1 pick, you take the very best player, which at this point appears to be Wall. Besides his play, the #1 player brings tremendous publicity, which is something the wolves desperately need to increase ticket sales (I’m working on a column on that right now). However, I don’t expect that we’d get full value trading Flynn or Sessions, and maybe not even Rubio. But if you have a chance at John Wall, the Wolves need to take it.
by shrink on Dec 7, 2009 10:49 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
If this is really the case, and I agree that it is
then would it make more sense to maximize overall value?
Drafted player – traded player + acquired player = added team value
In other words, is Rubio + Turner worse than Wall + Brewer? It’s tough to say and you would really have to check your alternatives when they present themselves. Also something to think about, does Wall stay here after his rookie contract? Does Turner? Aldrich? I’d think the last two would and Wall would head for Hollywood when Kobe is retiring. Obviously a rookie contract of Wade is more important than years of Butler, but it’s something to keep in mind.
If the player being sent out really does have that much higher of a value of what is coming in, then part of me has to wonder if Wall is the correct choice. Is Kidd and Carter really worse value than Wade and Beasley? Tough comp, but I can’t think of too many above average 1-2 punches that would be a decent comp right now.
by Mplax on Dec 7, 2009 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't a competitive team entice Wall to stay?
If Wall came in here, and was given the reigns on a team with a ton of young talent that as we all hope, should turn into a playoff contender within the next year, wouldn’t that be added incentive to stay?
I honestly see no reason that Wall would immediately jet for LA after his rookie deal unless it was clear that it wasn’t his team or for some reason he doesn’t connect with the team/fans/city. The second one seems so farfetched though as this city is starving for another KG type superstar and if Wall lives up to his potential he would be deemed the messiah.
Here’s a great article on Wall discussing how he is very down to earth. It also talks about how he decided on Kentucky, against his advisor’s wishes, because he felt he could thrive there.
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=jn-wall120409&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
But who am I kidding, we will never land the #1 pick.
by jballer_13 on Dec 7, 2009 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha
yes we would have to buck all sorts of odds and curses to end up witht he first pick.
Very good article though, thanks for posting that.
But there are a lot of good character guys who still want money and limelight. Maybe we can convince him that our offense is perfect for him and then he will want to come here like he wanted to go to Kentucky?
by Mplax on Dec 7, 2009 4:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The next CBA is going to make it harder for players to leave
the teams that drafted them. That is a league priority. Stern knows it is bad for the league when guys like LeBron and Wade have more power than the teams, he wants this to end. Not saying there won’t be free agency, but incentives to stay home will be even greater than today.
by Rumblebee on Dec 7, 2009 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wall
Not having looked at all the bad teams and not having a crystal ball, is it possible we could get some value for the #1 pick and a Gomes or Brewer? Would the value be able to fill a need for the Wolves? I’m sure the FO is hypothesizing (sp?) these scenarios, but I haven’t heard anything about trading the #1 pick. There is the “Can’t pass up John Wall” club, which I understand, as an advocate of BPA picks, but if we can get a need filled with a top quality NBA player, wouldn’t that be the BPA?? We know Wall is a freak athletically and looks like he could play in the league, but we have all seen “sure things” fall flat.
Great article as usual and I appreciate the effort you are putting in O.
Timberwolves - NBA champs 2013!
(used with permission - Wolf in MO)
by frankenhoops on Dec 7, 2009 12:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I know you acknowledged the point, but I just have to stress:
Superstars >>> need.
If Wall continues to look this good all year, you can’t move him. Just can’t.
To flip it around, however, I think you could probably fill a need with some combo of Rubio/Flynn and picks/players, and I’m totally cool with that.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
by Xand1 on Dec 7, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
To prove your point
Would you rather have a team with 5 players drafted for need, or a team with 2 Superstars that fill in the blanks around the Superstars. I’ll take option 2.
by Rumblebee on Dec 7, 2009 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Superstars >>> need
ABSOLUTELY! My only real sticking point is we don’t know for sure if Wall will be one of those superstars. I hate playing the “what-if” game on the negative side, but you can see the possibility that he turns out like Kwame Brown or LARue Martin.
I know, the possibility is he’s the next CP3- Steve Nash- Jason Kidd – Magic- BigO. I guess my question is, not saying that this is a possibility, would you trade the #1 pick in the draft for Brandon Roy, or Joe Johnson, or Rudy Gay?
Timberwolves - NBA champs 2013!
(used with permission - Wolf in MO)
by frankenhoops on Dec 9, 2009 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Brandon Roy, probably.
Johnson and Gay, absolutely not.
by LoveTo on Dec 9, 2009 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We are not going to get the #1 pick
Sure, we might still win the lottery. But with Love back, this team is gonna win some games.
Rudy Gay is the answer to the question “who can we get” for a swing man who can score. I’d rather ask the question “who do we want”. We need someone who will pass, not just shoot. No I don’t want Mike Miller back. Miller last year was all pass, no shot. Gay is all shot, no pass. We also need a good three-point shooter. I mean, come on, Love has been out there taking 3’s since he came back. That shows you what this team needs, but who else you got?
by Dave T on Dec 7, 2009 1:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Pray that Andre Iguodala becomes available at some point?
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
by Xand1 on Dec 7, 2009 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I love Iggy.
I’d be thrilled if we could swing some kind of trade to bring Andre to the wolves, but I can’t think of a very realistiic scenario where that could occur, unless we traded Al to get him. Even if we offered that, I’m not sure the sixers go for it.
by Princely Frank on Dec 7, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if we get the #1, you could sign Gay to a reasonable deal, then, once Philly realizes they have to rebuild (only a matter of time), turn around and swing him + Rubio + expirings (find a way to get one) in a year or two.
Just throwing something out there, of course, but you never know what’s going to happen down the line. It pays to have a stable of resources ready to move.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
by Xand1 on Dec 7, 2009 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rudy Gay
I’m not entirely sold on Gay, either. I could see him thriving in a system where Rubio was creating shots for him. But, in this triangle deal with Flynn running the show and Love-Jefferson being the focal point, I don’t know if he’s a great fit, and I really question whether he’s worth a huge contract. Oh, and Rudy is a mediocre defender. That’s a big problem at the wing position, as we learned the hard way with Foye-Miller.
by Andy G on Dec 7, 2009 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Mediocre defense and bad passer means he’s not worth a big deal, and that’s my problem with him. For a reasonable deal, say in the neighborhood of 8-9 per year you could overlook those deficiencies, but not for 10+.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
by Xand1 on Dec 7, 2009 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Although he is looking much better this year, at least according to 82games. He’s way outproducing his guy at the 3 spot and though the defense is a push when he’s on/off the court, the offense is much better with him on. I waver on my stance when I see these things, although I’d still be leery of overpaying.. For 10+ per year you better be getting an all-star.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
by Xand1 on Dec 7, 2009 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
$12 million = Al Jefferson
Ain’t no All-Star.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Dec 7, 2009 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
just sayin’.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Dec 7, 2009 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
His play is (or was) all-star caliber.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
by Xand1 on Dec 7, 2009 2:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
and I don’t mean to bash Rudy Gay — he’s certainly a good player. But I wouldn’t feel comfortable giving him a huge contract. He has never been known as a high character guy or hard worker, even dating back to his days at UConn. With a bunch of guaranteed money, he could easily end up being one of those “league’s worst contract” guys in a hurry.
by Andy G on Dec 7, 2009 2:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ya
You never know how players will respond to big money. Hopefully he follows the ‘Melo mold, as Melo wasn’t regarded as the most mature guy when he was drafted. Somewhere along the way his desire to be remembered as one of the best trumped his desire to be immature or selfish, and the results have been pretty good thus far.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Dec 7, 2009 4:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Wolves have a lot of room to get better with Love playing
and still end up as the 2nd worst team record wise.
by ckb on Dec 7, 2009 3:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gay for Rubio is not happening
Maybe my memory is wrong, but I’m pretty sure one of the reasons Rubio fell to the Wolves was his agent’s insistence that he would not play for Memphis. I think the only way the Wolves get Gay is a 3-team trade involving Rubio, or the Wolves have to give up some assets like Pekovic and the Charlotte #1 pick.
I also keep hearing that Memphis ultimately plans to put Mayo at PG. Not sure this is true, but as long as it is a possibility I would think Memphis would prefer getting back a swing player for Gay.
by Rumblebee on Dec 7, 2009 2:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I hope nobody helps Portland out of the jam they are in...
…considering how they threatened teams last season in the Darius Miles deal, and the overall smugness of the Portland organization and fans, I hope they have to go through this season as-is! Let Roy, Miller, and Blake turn on each other as the season progresses.
If I’m the GM of another team, I wouldn’t do anything that was not a lopsided deal in my favor when dealing with Portland, let them struggle.
Then next summer the Wolves can offer the #1 overall pick (Wall) and Kevin Love or Jefferson to Portland for Brandon Roy!
by Rumblebee on Dec 7, 2009 2:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Stupid
If I’m the GM of another team, I wouldn’t do anything that was not a lopsided deal in my favor when dealing with Portland, let them struggle.
This is one reason why you would never make it in an NBA front office. If you are a GM and Portland is offering you a trade that makes sense for you, you make the trade.
Also, do you even know the full details of the Darius Miles situtation? I would venture to guess that you don’t know shit. Darius Miles was/is a lazy bum that didn’t put forth any effort to come back from injury to help a team that gave him a lot of money. Take a look at the league rosters this year. Do you see Miles on any of them? No. The only reason that Memphis signed him was to screw over Portlands cap space for the future. The letter that the Blazers Team President, Larry Miller, sent out was not a good move but I totally understand why he did it. Did you know that Portland tried to pick him up before the “letter” and was denied by the league. How is that legal? I think that the Blazer’s recent sucess had really irritated a lot of the GM’s and they were/are all out to screw over Pritchard. Really childish and detrimental to their teams if you ask me.
Blazersedge mods suck
by lrh86 on Dec 7, 2009 3:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It will be interesting...
…to see if anyone deals with them. I think it’s probably deeper than the Miles situation that might cause opposing GMs to think poorly of Pritchard. I’d like to think that teams would deal simply on the basis of talent but maybe that could even be looked at as not bailing out a promising young team that suddenly has a hurt core player and who overpaid for their #2 guy and who made a horrible free agent signing. I don’t think that is stupid and there definitely is a competitive component to not wanting to deal with them for these reasons. There’s also the dope factor in all of this: With a real point guard and the right type of back up for LMA they could be a monster team and who wants to be the other GM who puts it all together for them (especially for a guy who has reportedly rubbed it in like Pritchard)? Portland is in a pickle. Granted, it’s a pickle I’d like to see the Wolves in but this is where we’ll see how good Pritchard is and how badly he rubbed the other GMs the wrong way.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 7, 2009 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Add to it that teams are just flat out wary or dealing with Portland
Traded Ty Thomas for Aldridge, traded Foye for Roy….word around the league is teams are afraid of dealing with Portland because no one wants to be the next GM that gets fleeced by Pritchard. KP’s early brilliance may have been too much for his own good.
by Oceanary on Dec 7, 2009 4:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Like the Twins with Terry Ryan
Although Bill Smith might be undoing that rep with incredible efficiency. Time will tell I suppose.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Dec 7, 2009 4:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This happened to Lou Nanne years ago (North Stars reference here)
When he became GM he made several trades that benefited the Stars. It got to where he couldn’t make a decent trade anymore because other GMs wouldn’t deal with him unless they obviously got the better deal.
by Rumblebee on Dec 7, 2009 6:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My original comment was trying to goad Blazer fans a bit...
..however, it is also true that a good way to make your own team look good is to keep another team down. Wolves fans can relate to how fast a Superstars career can pass by. If nobody trades with Portland this season it becomes another lost season with Roy. A couple more and the pressure really starts to build as it did with KG and the Wolves. One thing with Portland is that while they have been proclaimed a contender in waiting, they no longer have cap space to play with. Looking at their roster, if another team does not bail them out not only will they not contend this season, they will not contend next season either. They also run the risk in a couple of years of being a two or three headed monster that really lacks depth.
by Rumblebee on Dec 7, 2009 11:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree with Stop-n-Pop on competitive part
I’m guessing that most GMs are pretty consumed with trying to build a winner and deal the injuries, salary cap, luxury cap, internal chemistry issues, etc. “Pay back” is probably pretty low on the list.
However, I do think it only makes sense that Western Conference GMs are not going to want to help complete a power house. They already have to worry about an LA team that is dominant and not terribly old. OKC is on the way up. No need to feed the POR monster.
The other issue is that POR seems to really, really like their own guys. I’m amazed they haven’t made some ‘depth for quality’ trades. I wonder if, after all his diligent scouting, Pritchard is loathe to give up any of ‘his guys’. I’ll bet the asking price for Rudy, for example, is much higher than anyone is willing to pay.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." -- Yogi Berra
by Wile E Coyote on Dec 7, 2009 4:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Completely agreed...
…that Pritchard’s big blind side is overvaluing “his guys”. The guy had Outlaw, Webster, Batum, and Fernandez at the wing and he didn’t move a single one of them for help at the 1 or 4. Now they have a full roster with a bunch of injuries and they’re probably forced to make a trade to field a healthy team rather than making one before the season to really set things in place. I’m just glad they didn’t walk away from the draft with Lawson or decided to get Sessions in free agency.
Another thing that would be interesting to know is what sorts of trades Pritchard has been asking for over the years. If they’ve been lopsided “hang up the damn phone” types of offers then I’m sure that some GMs are enjoying their chance to return the favor. That’s the sort of “payback” I’d bet is going on; not just rejecting legit offers because they don’t like the guy.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 7, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Think Kahn
should call him up and try to talk him out of Roy for Henk Norel and a bag of Skittles?
by Mplax on Dec 7, 2009 4:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not Henk!
How else will be persuade Rubio to come over? Rudy Fernandez, on the other hand…
by aarendsvark on Dec 7, 2009 4:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pritchard had deals for Vince Carter and Richard Jefferson on the table last year
And both were pure theft on Portland’s part because the key piece they were giving up in both deals was Raef LaFrentz.
But apparently Pritchard thought he wasn’t getting a good ENOUGH deal. Maybe he got so used to stealing talent he thought it was normal…? I definitely agree the Blazers screwed up not turning over their wings, especially since the money they saved from letting LaFrentz’s deal expire didn’t land them Hedo.
by Oceanary on Dec 7, 2009 4:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pritchard's made a few mistakes
but does anyone think not getting Hedo was one of them? If I were a Portland fan, I’d be ecstatic that he didn’t end up there.
by aarendsvark on Dec 7, 2009 4:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Those deals were purely speculation.
No one knows what was actually talked about. Maybe the Nets and Bucks were being unreasonable in who they were asking for. You don’t know that.
Blazersedge mods suck
by lrh86 on Dec 7, 2009 6:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Both deals were documented as having been on the table
For example, ESPN confirmed that a trade that would send LaFrentz, Travis Outlaw, and Sergio Rodriguez to Milwaukee for Jefferson and Luke RIdnour was a done deal, pending Pritchard’s approval.
by Oceanary on Dec 7, 2009 6:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You actually believe the garbage
that is spewed in the ESPN rumor section?
Blazersedge mods suck
by lrh86 on Dec 8, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And yet you played...
the “Rubio-won’t-come-because-the-Wolves-drafted-two-PGs” card. Straight from the garbage-spewing ESPN rumor section.
by LoveTo on Dec 8, 2009 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Unreasonable in that they wanted one of your beloved Blazers back in return maybe? How dare they!
:)
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
by Xand1 on Dec 8, 2009 10:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Blazer's fans still trolling
I feel bad for Oden and the team and coach…. just not for the GM….
by DR_JPK on Dec 7, 2009 4:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know this much about Darius Miles...
…Portland got what they deserved!
by Rumblebee on Dec 7, 2009 6:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And Minnestota got what they deserved...
when they drafted two point guards at five and six in the draft. No wonder why Rubio didn’t come play for the Wolves.
Blazersedge mods suck
by lrh86 on Dec 7, 2009 6:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The last troller
Pack it up man, leave!
by DR_JPK on Dec 7, 2009 6:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hooked one!
Was hoping for a few more, maybe they’ll show up later.
by Rumblebee on Dec 7, 2009 6:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It'd be fun, but
I just feel too bad for Oden. He really is a good guy and he has taken so much crap for stuff out of his control… How many teammates apologize to their team after getting injured!
Your right though, it’s karma. Pritchard messed with Darius Miles, so the basketball gods messed with his prize draft pick….
by DR_JPK on Dec 7, 2009 6:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I still can't believe that people still stick up for Miles...
He is a fat lazy bum that epitomizes everything that is wrong with the NBA. All he ever did in Portland while “rehabing” was hang out in strip clubs and smoke weed. He didn’t put forth any effort to actually getting back on the basketball court until he was out of portland and even then it was just to screw portland over.
Blazersedge mods suck
by lrh86 on Dec 8, 2009 11:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Who sticks up for Miles? Guy sounds like a clown.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
by Xand1 on Dec 8, 2009 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Xavier Henry
Am I the only one who thinks he is the best pro prospect in the freshman class, and quite obviously the long-term answer for the wolves at the wing? I think he’d be putting up 25 or 26 a game and dwarfing Turner’s numbers if he played at Ohio State. The fact that he’s stepped in and is arguably the best player on the best team in the country should not go unnoticed. Paul Pierce redux?
by voiceofharlanspast on Dec 7, 2009 5:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
a 6'6" lefty shooting guard..
….who can really stroke it from outside….yeah, the Wolves should definitely be keeping an eye on him. plus, he’s an okie so you can’t go wrong there.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 7, 2009 6:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Would take a healthy version of Redd.
Might be a good pick up with one of the picks the Wolves will have in the teens next summer.
by Rumblebee on Dec 7, 2009 6:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's fun to make up nicknames
for guys with names that start with X.
by Princely Frank on Dec 7, 2009 11:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A healthy, (relatively) cheap version of Michael Redd would be amazing.
by aarendsvark on Dec 8, 2009 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Might be better if he stays where he is
He’s projected to be available when our Charlotte pick comes up. So if no one catches on, we could draft Favors at the top and still get Henry around #16
by Oceanary on Dec 7, 2009 6:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta think he goes higher if he stays this efficient, but man that would be awesome. I’d be looking hard at ways to move up in the draft to get him if it looks like his stock will put him out of reach with Charlotte’s pick.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
by Xand1 on Dec 8, 2009 10:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What keeps his stock down is he's on a stacked team
So no one’s sure if he’s the man, or a support player to Aldrich and Sharron Collins. He’ll have to sharply differentiate himself to get up into the top 5.
by Oceanary on Dec 8, 2009 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So, we could be looking at Wayne Ellington mk.II
I’d agree that unless he blows up, I’d rather see the Wolves take a shot at a true #1. Even if it is John Wall or Favors (and I’d lean Favors).
by aarendsvark on Dec 8, 2009 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
not sure...
I don’t know if the “stacked team” card works. There are a lot of examples of players on great college teams that were taken at the way-high end of the lottery, despite not being huge stat-stuffers. Deron Williams, Derrick Rose, and Marvin Williams quickly come to mind. Last year, Ed Davis would have gone in the Top-5.
If Henry has the physical tools of a bigtime prospect and plays reasonably well as a freshman I think he’ll get taken about where he should — (wherever that is.)
by Andy G on Dec 8, 2009 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wall and Favors are better prospects, but Henry is still intriguing, especially for the Wolves. If there’s any way at all to nab him with Charlotte’s pick or to move up by combining Utah + Charlottes to get him, that’d be awesome.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
by Xand1 on Dec 8, 2009 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In other news...
Rudy Fernandez is now out for an undisclosed amount of time due to a microdiscectomy procedure.
Link
Just freakin great ;-(
Blazersedge mods suck
by lrh86 on Dec 8, 2009 2:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
On the bright side
everyone is going down in a year that seems to be shot for Portland anyways. by the time all the people back and healthy (got my fingers crossed for Oden), the team should have sorted out all the issues.
I guess it sounds like an empty comment, but would you rather lose your guys in a year like this or lose you starting (and backup) PG when you are the best team in the league and playing in the Western Conference Finals?
by Mplax on Dec 8, 2009 2:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I would definitely rather it happen this way than go all the way to the WCF and have your hopes dashed. What could have been… The thing that sucks though is the fact that some of these injured Blazers are young guys that could be using this time to develop.
Here’s the list
Greg Oden(knee)
Nicolas Batum(shoulder)
Travis Outlaw(foot)
Rudy Fernandez(back)
Jeff Pendergraph(hip)
Patty Mills(foot)
Blazersedge mods suck
by lrh86 on Dec 8, 2009 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True
but Mills wouldn’t be getting much PT because of their current PG issues anyways. And Pendergraph would not be getting any big minutes (although I’m sure the few minutes backing up Przybilla would still be nice). I’m interested to see Batum in his prime some day though… I see Ronnie Brewer v2.0… not that I know much about either.
by Mplax on Dec 8, 2009 3:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Pendergraph will be getting some PT when he gets back next month. I sure hope he can produce but I’m not really holding my breath. As for Batum, I actually think he has a little higher ceiling than Brewer. This summer with the French National team he was easily the second best player on the floor for France behind only Tony Parker. Some nights, according to reports, he was the best player on the floor. I don’t agree with some of the super homer Blazer fans that he will be a better version of Tayshaun Prince but he will definetly be a productive player for many years.
Blazersedge mods suck
by lrh86 on Dec 8, 2009 3:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also..
Not to pull the “feel sorry for me” card but here is a couple more injuries/illnesses affecting Portland;
Paul Allen, Owner (cancer)
Nate McMillan, Coach (achilles tendon)
Blazersedge mods suck
by lrh86 on Dec 8, 2009 3:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Others:
Non Blazer Fans (ruptured ear drums)
Tiny Violin Manufacturers (blisters from too much work supplying Portland fan base with their wares)
Basketball Karma (recovering from being Pritch Slapped)
;)
Sorry, I hope all of those real people enjoy quick and full recoveries. I just couldn’t resist ;)
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 8, 2009 5:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I probably deserved that ;-)
The only one that is real serious is Paul Allen’s cancer. He is fighting for his life. All the players are just months away from resuming their everyday lives of basketball. Paul Allen may never get that chance if his treatment doesn’t go well.
Blazersedge mods suck
by lrh86 on Dec 8, 2009 5:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
didn't he..
….buy a house in Memphis just to get an organ transplant in TN? I remember reading that somewhere while in Tennessee for some business.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Dec 8, 2009 8:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is there a reason you're posting all Blazers stuff on a Wolves site
Rather than on BlazersEdge?
by Oceanary on Dec 8, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you noticed...
A big part of this post discusses the Portland Trailblazers. I was just joining in on the conversation. I do try to stay away from polluting the purely Wolves based posts with my Blazers centric commentary but I have found this site and it’s authors to be very interesting, therefore I spend a good amount of time browsing the site.
Blazersedge mods suck
by lrh86 on Dec 8, 2009 2:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Glad to have you
always (usually?) enjoy the view from the other side of the fence.
by Mplax on Dec 8, 2009 2:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also there is this little matter of me not being allowed to post on the Blazers Edge site due to some due to some biased moderating. You have to be part of a certain group over there to get away with certain things. I am not part of their little clique therefore I got banned.
Blazersedge mods suck
by lrh86 on Dec 8, 2009 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just curious
Rudy’s injury is really something that affects only the Blazers
by Oceanary on Dec 8, 2009 3:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The title of this post is; Prowling the NBA. Does this news not pertain to the NBA?
Blazersedge mods suck
by lrh86 on Dec 8, 2009 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True, but Rudy’s injury isn’t like, season altering for the Blazers. There’s a lot of little odds and ends injuries I don’t bother to post because they ultimately have little significance to the NBA as a whole.
But like I said, just curious.
by Oceanary on Dec 8, 2009 3:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why is Rudy
Missing time to dissect a worm in a junior high science class? How long can it take? It’s not like worms are the most complex creatures out there.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Dec 8, 2009 2:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs





























