Gates of Hell
Over the last ten years during the Kevin Garnett era, the national media continually branded the Timberwolves as a small-market team, and frequently opined to their big-market readers that the Wolves would send KG to their team for pennies on the dollar, since MIN really needed those pennies.
Fortunately, Minnesota fans have dismissed this idea for several reasons. Minnesota is hardly a small media market. A quick look at the US TV Household Ranks puts us at #13 among 30 NBA cities. While three teams are significantly bigger (2x CHI, 3x LA, 4x NYK), there are several teams that are far smaller. Memphis, Oklahoma City and New Orleans are only about a third our size. The Twin Cities are affluent, so their are plenty of potential customers.
However, the Timberwolves have little market penetration, and are one of the lowest revenue teams in the entire NBA.
The Timberwolves were #29 in net gate receipts last year, averaging $350,118 per game. The top team, the Lakers, average $1.96 mil/game. After 42 home games, the Lakers have cleared over $68 million more than the Wolves. The Lakers plow a lot of this money right back into their payroll, and even after paying $43 mil in salary and luxury taxes over the threshold, they are still making $25 million more than the Wolves -- almost twice our annual gate receipts! The league average is $912,953, so clearly the Wolves have a long way to go.
The biggest problem is attendance. The Wolves were dead last in average tickets sold (7,372), which is only about half the league average of 14,095. The Wolves were #29 in actual attendance too, so nobody's there to purchase parking, concessions and souvenirs. Ticket prices are low (MIN can't set prices as high as places like New York), but they are affluent enough to stay out of the bottom five, so the potential to make money is there, if they can provide a product that will fill seats.
The Timberwolves aren't the only team to be suffering in a battle of the "haves" and the "have-nots." MEM, MIL, IND and CHA all withstood major losses. Teams like New Orleans, who are in a market that can't charge a lot for tickets, will lose money when they aren't selling out their venues with play-off runs. Small OKC may suffer as their payroll rises and attendance dwindles as the newness factor wears off. These are certainly potential trade partners, if Glen Taylor is willing to absorb bigger contracts despite the losses.
Fortunately, this may be the case. The Wolves are better able to withstand these losses with the sixth richest owner in the NBA, who has also shown he is willing to spend money for a winning team. However, no owner wants to pour millions each year into a business that doesn't create returns or increase in value. The franchise's value has been flat, and there are worries that there are no more buyers left anyway -- particularly for the have-nots.
So why are gate receipts so important? The NBA evenly divides the revenues from digital and national and international broadcasting among its 30 teams, and the luxury threshold provides some additional revenue sharing. However, for local broadcasts and arena revenues, these huge discrepancies may mean the difference between spending the money on a free agent, extending a talented player or trading him for cheap future assets, or even selling a franchise or contracting. The widening gap threatens to create a system without talent parity.
As players and owners begin to consider the next Collective Bargaining Agreement starting summer of 2011, these are issues that must be addressed. Glen Taylor now leads the Board of Governors, so the "have nots" will certainly be heard, but it will be difficult. How much should big-market teams need to subsidize less successful franchises? Shouldn't the Lakers be able to give a player like Andrew Bynum an expensive extension over the luxury threshold if they can afford it? And do they want to rule out the likelihood of another Pau Gasol-like acquisition?
In Minnesota, things are grim, but there is light at the end of the tunnel, because other teams have turned things around financially. Portland rebuilt with talented youth through draft and trade, and with a patient owner, they now have an exciting team that fans will come and see. I believe David Kahn and Glen Taylor are on the right path with their rebuilding. The wins may be rare right now, but they are trying to add exciting players like Flynn and Rubio. Al Jefferson and Kevin Love can already put on a show, and our young team continues to develop. Our new running style will help fans see more exciting basketball and eventually more wins that will, hopefully, spin the turnstiles.
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You'd think living in a state
where it is as cold as it is during the season, more people would tune in to the television during a Wolves game. Might lower ticket sales, maybe, but you’d think TV viewing would increase.
I think the numbers for last season are deceiving
Local interest in the team is definitely down, but that is largely a by-product of years of poor on-court performance and even worse personnel moves. I would think the Wolves market penetration was average or better as little as five years ago.
With a fairly large and well paid fan base, as well as several large HQs in the area, the Wolves will generally be at worst middle of the pack.
I think teams should be able to keep their best players, but there needs to be competitive balance (parity) in the league as well. IMO, one of the major problems the NBA in general has is how difficult it is to put a good team on the court unless a team is already good. Teams that are great seem to stay that way for years, which would not be bad, except the price is that bad teams also seem to stay bad for years. Even with high picks it takes a lot of luck to assemble a good team. This is bad for fans in areas like Milwaukee and Memphis.
wins. just wins.
gate receipts are a function of winning. If memphis won 55 games a year, they’d sell out regularly. Minnesota’s attendence has also been correlated with winning, other than in the inaugural season.
“exciting players” just don’t do it. Wins do.
Not necessarily – it depends on the market. That’s probably true for Minneapolis given that we have nothing else to do here during the Winter, but there are good teams that still have troubles filling seats. I’d wager that Atlanta this year isn’t pulling impressive attendance numbers despite being very entertaining, and I remember that the Hornets couldn’t draw fans even when they went deep in the playoffs a few years ago.
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.
Marketing the Wolves
The team is going overboard offering incentives to attend games, but their attempts to create interest outside the metro area are weak. Radio coverage is pathetic. Though, to be honest, the current state of radio coverage for the Twins & even the Vikings is poor, as well. I live 100 miles from the Target Center & I can’t listen to them at home or in my car. The TV package is also poor. Not the people on the air, mind you. I enjoy the TV team. Its the number of games offered on free TV and accessibility that are sub par. The product may be bad, it has to be visible to be relevant.
I asked the Wolves about Radio Broadcasts a couple of years ago
The response was that they offer radio programming for their games free of charge to anyone that wants it. Most out-state stations are still not interested as they figure they can do better playing music than broadcasting games. If they start winning, it might make a difference.
Gophers
Minnesotans like winners. Tubby filled the Barn quite quickly when competitiveness returned to Gophers basketball. It took the Twins a few years of sustained winning, but they regularly draw pretty well. The Wolves will be fine once they start playing better and can get a bit more distance from the only Wolves ball most of us have known or can remember (McHale ball).
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Dec 7, 2009 8:50 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Yes, the Twin Cities are a major metro media market
but one with all four sports and a Big Ten school. I would also guess that amateur and professional hockey have a bigger percentage penetration (that sounds disgusting) in the MSP area than any of the other larger metro areas. The Vikings are king, the Twins are runners-up, the Gophers will always be there, and the Wild have their small but rabid following. The Wolves need to win Big to get attention beyond the 1787.
From a fan attention perspective, this tearing-down-to-the-studs is the last, best move for the team. I applaud the strategy, as it’s better than overpaying 33 year olds to get to 45 wins. But if it doesn’t show progress in 2-3 years in both wins and fan support, I don’t like the odds of the team being able to afford to stay here—especially if there’s a lockout, and the Vikings don’t move.
The good news is that the Vikings don’t appear to be any closer to getting a stadium than they were when it was first brought up 20 years ago. The better news for Wolves fans is that many other NBA teams are in similar or worse financial straits, in markets that can’t/won’t provide even the tepid support offered to the Wolves by the Twin Cities. Short of contraction, there are going to be a lot of teams looking for help, and not a lot of cities willing to offer it.
As a quick side note....
….as much as I would like to see it happen, the Vikings will never, ever move. First of all, I highly doubt that the Wilfs are sharing their revenue figures with the state legislators. They may whine and moan about not having enough revenue to but a) everyone knows they are making money (just not as much as they would like) and b) they are competing. Second, there is a pretty damn good reason why football is not in LA and it has to do with the TV rules. If a team is positioned in the heart of LA they have to play by the same rules that make it impossible to watch other games here in the cities while the Vikes are on. Without a team there they can plaster Sunday in LA with 10 straight hours of uninterrupted football on two channels. That has to be a shit ton of ad money and I wonder how it would play with both the league and the yokels if suddenly the team from LA caused the NFL TV operation in the country’s 2nd largest market to lose a game or two/day of ad revenue. Third, the NFL isn’t going to move a profitable franchise out of the nation’s 13th or 14th largest media market and make up the gap with ad revenue from new games, especially with what will happen with TV ad revenue in LA.
The state needs to be crystal clear about the Vikes: Are you really asking us to spend hundreds of millions of dollars in a political climate where the 2012 biennium’s 3rd largest line item is a deficit of (probably) over $8 billion for a stadium for an already profitable franchise? No, no, no and more no. We have a beautiful new outdoor stadium that can be expanded by about 30k seats as well as a wonderful downtown spot that can be updated while you play at Gopher Nation for a year or two should you choose not to share full time. Oh, and go f yourselves for making a stink about this right now when the economy is in the tank. Call their bluff. They’re going nowhere and they’re making money.
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Blackout Blackmail
I find this to be particularly offensive in the context of the NFL stadium request. Viking ticket prices are outrageous, and you know they would go up in a new stadium. I don’t know who can afford season tickets. They want taxpayers to finance $600-800M for a stadium, and then hold out the threat of tv blackouts to the same taxpayers.
I am a Viking fan, but they need to change their tone. As you point out, their alternatives are limited and they missed the party with the stadium handouts.
Oh, let's have the Vikes stay
I love it when people are all having that communal experience of the weekly game, and during it they stay the heck out of my way so I can do errands!
Seriously, I so hope they go on a playoff run. Even without their being in it, the Superbowl is a great day to go swimming at the health club.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
It is the best time to get things done...
…the only better time I’ve ever had was when we lived in Omaha during college football season and Saturday morning at the mall was like Will Smith in I Am Legend.
As for the Vikes and stadiums, I’ve long hoped that states would agree to funding only if significant broadcasting strings were attached. Namely, that blackouts would not happen during the term of the lease and that a cost-effective internet package would be made available by the team that would be no more expensive than 1/2 the cost of the cheapest ticket in the house or for free if the game is not available via radio in the area. If the citizens of Minnesota are going to pay for this, then they get to watch no matter what. I also want them to put strings on the ability of the Vikes to use seat licenses to double-charge people for tickets.
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The Web access thing
is as close to an “affordable seats” policy as I can imagine ownership getting. Are the blackout rules all tied to individual teams, though, or to the league? The NFL’s so bureaucratic, and so tied to TV money, I can’t imagine them leaving that entirely to locals.
Many things in life are beyond my understanding, and the fundamental level of demand that makes anyone, anyone at all pay for a “seat license” is one of ‘em. I can’t see that from close up or far away without finding it incredibly insulting. Apparently others don’t feel that way. Apparently they won’t string up their representatives for allowing it in stadium funding bills. The things get bought!
Heck, I don’t understand why people put up with monopolistic vending practices in stadiums. We prate all about capitalism and the virtues of competition, and then in the temples we construct to our sporting gods we charge $8 for a blistered hot dog in a stiff dry bun with ketchup spootched out of an old farm water pump. We should walk away from that inadequate offer. There oughta be limits. And there have to be better models for providing that service. The State Fair is cheap next to stadium food.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
mmmmmmmm
philly cheese steak sandwich.
by TheEvilProfessor on Dec 8, 2009 9:16 AM CST up reply actions
Demand what is rightfully yours!
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
It's interesting that the subject of going to a movie
(I Am Legend—The Story of Kevin Pritchard) has risen. I don’t care for seeing movies in theaters because of price/value, and sometimes other people show up to watch the movie which completely ruins the experience for me.
But I also don’t condemn the idiots good people who do choose to waste spend their hard-earned dollars seeing Hey Let’s All Be Vampires Now. Where I would get upset is if my tax dollars were going to subsidize the movie theaters and ergo their mouth-breathing popcorn-chomping talking-out-loud well-meaning patrons.
Yes, investing tax dollars in sports teams does offer some payback in the form of income taxes on employees/players, hospitality taxes, and increased property values on real estate that surrounds the stadium and facilities. But the supposed economic boost that a team or event provides has never been substantiated, at least not in an amount that justifies the cost.
If a “revenue neutral” stadium can be built, I’m all for it. But one that appears to boost the wealth of billionaire owners and millionaire players won’t fly with me or Minnesota voters.
Unless the Vikings win the Super Bowl. Then I’m fine with it.
There are always other options, too
Even in the realm of the economic arguments for stadiums, one can think of other better ways to spend the money.
Gee, how much more likely are you to visit St. Louis because the Rams play there? Would you be more attracted by that, or by the presence of the flippin’ St. Louis Arch??
There’s no doubt which one of those results in more hotel stays, and restaurant meals, and out-of-town travelers that specifically go out of their way to see Saint Louis. The arch is open almost every day of the year, too, whereas with football in particular? Jeez, 8 home games? And in any case the supposed new revenue generated by a stadium in some metropolitan area is obviously being taken away from suburbs and outstate places.
(As far as movies go: I just saw “Up” at a matinee the other day. Paid $2.50, in a theater with maybe ten kids spread around in small groups with their parents. They, and I, didn’t overpay for our little family outing. Somehow, maybe it’s the $4.00 popcorn bags, the theater stays in business. And there is a little bit of a group experience. The early montage in that movie reduced everyone in the theater to sniffles, I think…. It’s beautifully done.)
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
Interesting side note..
…about Pixar: Up director Pete Doctor is a Bloomington Kennedy grad and Woody in Toy Story is named after former Kennedy teacher Woodrow Bjork, or so I have been told. And yes, the first 10 minutes of Up will melt your eyeballs.
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Not to alarm anyone in the Twin Cities
But this sounds pretty similar to the arguments made out here in Seattle before they got sold to some out of towners. I still think we made the right choice on stadium financing, but as long as other cities are willing to blow huge chunks of cash to enrich millionaire’s hobbies, no home team is safe.
That also happened before the economy went REALLY sour
I don’t know a lot of cities that are dying to get a NBA team right now and give the deal that OKC did.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
From my opinion
a case can be made that the state should support the basics / infrastructure for a new stadium just as it supports the basics / infrastructure for art centers, museums, parks, etc. I am OK seeing some value in the state supporting all those items as it leads to a quality of life that keeps us a healthy community.
I am a small business owner. When I built my first plant, the state and city paid for the infrastructure needed to prepare the land for me. They reimbursed me for some of my basic construction costs too. They do this for many, many firms, large and small. Its OK to do it for the Vikings too.
The Metrodome is a basic, though worn, facility. I can support a State funding that provides another, basic facility, similar to it. But what gets me is all the ad on needs – for on site parking, luxury boxes, video boards, premium seats, restaurants, on and on. Those things are NOT required – they are wants that generate additional revenue for the team. They should be paid for by the club – an investment that also provides incentive for them to stay. The Twins have upgraded a number of things at Target Field on their dime – quite appropriately. The Vikings need to do the same.
I saw a year or so ago, that the cost to rebuild a “MetroDome” clone on the existing site was under $500M. That should be the limit of all public support. That also means the Wilfs and friends would need to add ~$400M of their own money – a far cry from the current offer.
Finally, the unemployment rates in the construction industry are so high, that a good argument can be made for doing a project now. Keeping 3000-5000 people working on a new stadium, who would otherwise be unemployed, is not an insignificant item.
Agreed
The limit I have for any state support is the MN tax paid on the players and staff of the team, plus any property taxes paid by the team assuming they would own the stadium. I can’t stomach the creating jobs line people throw out with stadiums as if a couple hundred concession jobs is worth a couple extra million. To me football suffers from a lower usage rate on the building. At least for basketball, baseball and hockey you have 40+ games. With the proper setup (actually has a roof) where it can be used for multiple purposes it makes a little more sense from a utility standpoint.
I personally do not want another metrodome. It sucked from day one and I hate watching games there. Short of getting really close seats (row 15 or better) you always feel like you are really far away. If you are going to build a stadium, make it somewhere where it is fun to watch with every seat having a good view etc. Any luxuries that wilf wants…he can pay for.
As a fan I have no problem chipping in a little directly to the team, but I don’t expect the state to do anymore than this. The limit for any state should be the proven tax revenues to be gained by having the team here.
by TheEvilProfessor on Dec 8, 2009 2:25 PM CST up reply actions
One thing I missed
in the original post is the value of having a large indoor stadium for other events. The Metrodome is used ~250 days of the year. Granted, 82 of those were Twins games but that still leaves a lot of other events – events that will be homeless because the Dome is not self supporting without the Vikings. (Frankly, I am not sure it even is with the Vikings – but it is close enough) We would need to annually subsidize the Dome sans Vikings – a point that many people fail to consider. That subsidy amount can properly be applied to a new stadium, from my perspective.
agreed
I find it sad that there are a lot of hard numbers to use to create a reasonable funding level that never get talked about.
The tax benefit of the MN income tax on players salaries alone is almost 160M.
by TheEvilProfessor on Dec 8, 2009 3:01 PM CST up reply actions
You really, truly think the other arenas couldn't catch a whole lot of those events?
How many monster truck rallies are there in the MetroDome-Dome-Dome, exactly?
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
a lot of those are the football and soccer championships for the states.
There are also some leagues that play games at the dome.
by TheEvilProfessor on Dec 8, 2009 4:15 PM CST up reply actions
Hmm. This argument is not convincing me yet. It could, but it has not.
I’m pretty sure the Sports Center up in Blaine would be able to handle the State soccer championships, and I’m absolutely certain that would be a better surface to play on for either of those sports. Moving those games doesn’t seem like the sort of crisis we need to shell out $500 million to avert.
Sometime I would love to see financial arguments from towns that have lost their teams. Los Angeles, say. The Rams (and Raiders, though that was wrong to begin with) left town. Granted, the Silver and Black stayed in-state. How much economic loss was there after those departures, though? What does the city suffer financially, and what does California suffer, for not having them around? That’s a much bigger market, so presumably the losses are greater….
You’d think in an economic situation like that there’d be more than the yearly scuttlebutt about whatever team might move there based on the usual potential owners’ interest in having a team. There’d be huge groups of citizens pounding on the sidewalks.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
I think the most the state should shell out
is up to 300M. If Ziggy can’t pony up the rest or get fans to contribute to a keep the vikings in MN fund then have fun in LA.
by TheEvilProfessor on Dec 8, 2009 5:03 PM CST up reply actions
The dome
currently has those events for a reason – other sites must not be big enough / location not right.
I don’t see any of this as a crisis. What I would rather see is an informed discussion leading to a defined value for the facility rather than the “no taxes for millionaires” response.
amen to that
I just hate the spin jobs. I feel like I can’t trust any of the arguements because they are so one sided.
by TheEvilProfessor on Dec 9, 2009 8:18 AM CST up reply actions
In a norrmal economy..
…I completely agree with you, however the 2012 forecast is horrifying and I’m not sure a successful and profitable business with a working facility gets to go to the head of the line, especially with the T&I issues this state has. There is definitely a place for government-based capital investment in private industry but there is a loooonnnnnnngggg list right now and I think in terms of necessity, the Vikes and the Dome are pretty far down the list right now. As a small business owner, I’d suggest to you that the Vikings money be sunk into something like a tax incentive package or regulatory reform to help the business climate in this state (which kind of stinks) compete with our neighbors rather than a stadium. If we’re talking construction jobs, then let’s clean out MnDOT’s waiting list and make the drive on places like Hwy 60 from Worthington into Iowa a bit less embarrassing for us Minnesotans. Putting aside the snarkiness of my original post, I think the Vikings are probably deserving of a stadium at some point…just not now, and not just because they’re bluffing.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
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I am not interested
in playing the poker game either. If the Vikes feel they can leverage us into a bad deal – go ahead and try it. I will be the first to tell them “Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out”.
I have a customer in Dodge Center – I’d rather fix MN Hwy 56. So I here you on the roads. The fact is, there is only so much road construction MnDOT (and their contracts) can do at once. I read where most of the TCF Bank worker force have been laid off. I would not be opposed to them being rehired.
Another part of the equation – bond financing is at the lowest point in years. Which is why the state is looking at a huge (1.8B) bonding bill this year. Something else to consider.
By the way – I am not a big Viking fan (much prefer the Gophers) and never buy tickets. Watch only if there is nothing better to do. Still would like to see a more enlightened discussion.
"Still would like to see a more enlightened discussion"
Amen. But I’m guessing since it’s political to the hilt, highly visible, and taking place during a global financial downturn and while the state’s in a fiscal crisis, I doubt there will be much “discussion”, much less “enlightening.”
I mean this as a compliment, but most people aren’t like you. They feel one way, and nothing is going to change their minds. They won’t say that, or admit it, as they think they arrived at their conclusion through common sense/intelligence/wisdom.
You hit on the key to getting it done: J-O-B-S. Especially in the construction business, since there won’t exactly be a huge amount of building happening in the next decade. The purported stimulative affect of putting those TCF builders to work will be more palatable to more people.
The stuff like bars and restaurants mentioned up thread seem superfluous, but so did Women’s bathrooms when Met Stadium was built fifty years ago. Milwaukee was able to get Miller Park built, Green Bay revamped Lambeau, Madison piled another level on to Camp Randall—all of these much-less-economically robust areas were able to get improvements/replacements done, so I don’t see why the Twin Cities can’t do a liquor tax/racino/seat license/bond issue deal to augment what the Wilfs will have to pony up.
My dad's favorite saying seems more true today than ever
Don’t tax you
Don’t tax me
Tax that fellow
Behind the tree.
I do love...
…how gambling is suddenly viewed as a morally acceptable way to balance a pocketbook. At least when we go down, it will be with some humor.
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What about liquor?
Tobacco? Speeding tickets? D.A.R.E. impounding cars for having a pot seed in the ashtray?
It's not what drugs you're strung out on...
…they care about so much as who’s.
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Yes
Pfizer is apparently okay…but JD’s homegrown is gonna cost you.
by TheEvilProfessor on Dec 9, 2009 10:09 AM CST up reply actions
I wonder...
..if Tiger will get an Ambien sponsorship.
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I'm guessing some kind of T-Mobile
“Hundred Whores and Hookers” deal, where all texts and voice mails are free to and from anyone with implants. New customers will get 90 days free protection from spousal access to all inbound and outbound messages.
I can't wait..
…until everyone figures out what Deadspin reported on yesterday: Rachel Uchitel isn’t just a hook up, she’s a madam. I’m pretty sure Elin figured this out before she took a swing. I see that Rush Limbaugh used Tiger to make a segue into a commercial about an identity theft protection product. Just wait until we find out that Tiger was hooked on prescription pain meds…then Rush will really have a tie in.
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Vikings and Twins
seasons don’t overlap that much with the Wolves. However, Wild, Gopher Hockey, and Gopher Basketball all overlap with the Wolves season. These are the competitiors with the Wolves rather than the Twins or Vikings. I agree with pretty much everything else you said including needing to show progress in the next 2-3 years both in wins and fan support.
If....
We win they will come. In every negative there is a positive, now I hope we can help out some other struggling franchises by taking a star or two off of their hands.
Like B2B said, the Twins are a great example.
I think that should be Canis' new slogan
If we improve it, fans will come.
The Wolves don’t have to win a championship in order to get the fans back. They need a minimum of two things:
1. Be competitive in every game, and win maybe half of them.
2. A player who is also a rock star.
Yup, you guessed it. The Wolves need Rubio more that Rubio needs them. No flash, no fans.
I don't know if they need exactly that
But the team did fine economically when KG was here. A star and moderate success would go a long way.
Market saturation yes, but basketball indifference too
7 major sports for 2.8 million people is probably the most saturated of any market in the world. Difiicult to sustain.
Then, remember that MSP ranks last or second to last in national NBA broadcast ratings. TNT, ESPN, playoffs – we share the bottom every time with Pittsburgh. The appetite for hoops here is very limited.
This just in
Dick Day (no, that’s not another name for “April Fools Day”) is leaving the Minnesota Legislature to run the campaign to bring “racino” to the state. Ostensibly, some of the revenue would go toward paying for a new Vikings stadium.
Day did not confirm or deny rumors that he was going to be promoting Cock Fighting as a fallback alternative.
I guess I picked the wrong time and place
to expand the Foxy Boxing franchise to Minneapolis-St. Paul.
That may be true
But Denver and Pittsburgh are also listed as being among the most overextended, and I don’t think the Broncos, Nuggets, or Avs are in any danger in Denver, nor are the Steelers or Penguins in Pittsburgh. The Pirates just got a new stadium as well.
My guess is that this study is similar to Hollingers Euro stats transfer numbers, in that Hollinger simply took a bunch of Euros and charted what happened, on average, to their numbers once they came over here. Great for general guidelines, not reliable for a specific case. Ergo, it is ludicrous to suggest:
Los Angeles, an oft-rumored relocation site for the Vikings if they don’t get a new stadium, has the largest capacity to support additional professional sports teams — enough, in fact, to support five NFL franchises.
It’s like saying that if we had five guys who could rebound like KLove out on the floor every night we’d get 60 rebounds every time.
Anyways, I agree that the TC market itself may be overextended a bit, but I also take that assessment with a grain of salt. There’s a reason why two NFL franchises left LA, and four franchises have been created in other cities since then, including in a tiny market like Jacksonville (Jags, Browns, Texans, and Panthers). There’s also something to be said for our home teams’ range to include the Dakotas and even parts of Montana as well.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
Having the U in the Twin Cities hurts a lot in this
I don’t know a lot of major media markets that also have to compete with the major state university in their city. LA, obviously, but those schools don’t have hockey teams. The U of Illinois is in Champaign, OSU is in Columbus, U of Michigan is in Ann Arbor, UW is in Madison, U of Texas is in Austin, U of Colorado is in Boulder, U of Arizona is in Tucson. It’d never happen, but it’s too bad the U isn’t in a more rural location. I suppose they could move their main campus to Morris or Duluth :).
by pagingstanleyroberts on Dec 9, 2009 12:46 PM CST reply actions
The flipside of that is
that by being in a major metro area, the schools have much better relationships with business and the U has leveraged that into top research status and a fairly respectible business program. As they say…business makes the world go round.
Of course the U does a horrible job of selling itself to rural MN as many people support schools like NDSU, UND, and WI.
by TheEvilProfessor on Dec 9, 2009 12:55 PM CST up reply actions

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