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GameThread #22: vs New Orleans

New Orleans Hornets at Minnesota Timberwolves, Dec 9, 2009 7:00 PM CST


Chris Paul ruined Kevin Love's return, so perhaps the home court advantage will tip the scales for Rambis & Co.

See At the Hive for our sister site on the Hornets.

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Better get a win of the week tonight

Cuz we’re going to get killed by the Lakers Friday

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 6:45 PM CST reply actions  

Anybody else's league pass feed...

showing Toronto-Milwaukee instead of the Wolves?

by LoveTo on Dec 9, 2009 7:03 PM CST reply actions  

Very annoying. Hope they fix it.

by LoveTo on Dec 9, 2009 7:06 PM CST up reply actions  

i'm trying their live chat support

approximate wait time: 14 minutes.

league pass is leotarded.

by losDelFuego on Dec 9, 2009 7:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Let me know if it changes! Thanks.

by LoveTo on Dec 9, 2009 7:18 PM CST up reply actions  

for the time being, i'm resigned to watching bucks-raps

i can cheer for Bosh without feeling like a traitor. dude is nuts.

by losDelFuego on Dec 9, 2009 7:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Open up CLE HOU

Thats where the Wolves game is!

by Ailuridae on Dec 9, 2009 7:33 PM CST up reply actions  

league pass "support" is a joke

losdelfuego
The MIN-NOH channel is showing the TOR-MIL game instead.

AgentCraig
Yes this is a known issue and our technicians are currently working on fixing the issue as fast as they can. I understand this is frustrating and hopefully it is resolved soon. I have not received a time frame unfortunately.

losdelfuego
ok. apparently the game i want is showing on the CLE-HOU channel, but I didn’t pick them in my choice package.

losdelfuego
any way to get one of those teams temporarily added to my package?

AgentCraig
Unfortunately I have no way of doing that.

AgentCraig
I do apologize for the issues tonight.

Customerlosdelfuego
How about some financial renumeration, then?

Customerlosdelfuego
I’ve missed almost half the game I want to watch

AgentCraig
If you would like to try and request a refund feel free to contact our billing department. Here is the link just click on submit a ticket.

by losDelFuego on Dec 9, 2009 7:51 PM CST up reply actions  

I love that approach

“I don’t know how to help you, though that is my job description. Our general inadequacy is screwing you over, so I will direct you somewhere else where you can waste your time and patience with another dead end. I doubt the refund will be easy or worthwhile. Thank you for paying hard-earned money for our allegedly professional service.”

To be fair, the agent probably gets tired of letting down customers because of all the BS he’s likely wading through on the other end.

by nja700 on Dec 9, 2009 9:35 PM CST up reply actions  

No need to really

The truth is what made us competitive was moving Gomes to the 4. Love just adds to that.

He’ll start eventually, but for now, we know we play well and Jonny in particular plays well with Wilkins and Gomes as starters.

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 7:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks

I hadn’t seen any official comment on it, so I was wondering if anyone had heard anything – or had any guesses.

by Boss10 on Dec 9, 2009 7:18 PM CST up reply actions  

GAME STREAM

There is a stream…but you have to have streamtorrent to view it…google streamtorrent..download the software and click on the sportszone link posted here….

http://www.myp2pforum.eu/nba-basketball/47975-basketball-today-december-9th.html

by TonyO on Dec 9, 2009 7:13 PM CST reply actions  

Brewer is 0 for 2...

…on point-blank lay-ups? How the hell??

by Boss10 on Dec 9, 2009 7:14 PM CST reply actions  

Wierd..Brewer can't finish..

Brewer doesn’t even deserve a roster spot…Jesus christ..Note to David Kahn…we need a legit Shooting Guard..Not a hack like brewer…

by TonyO on Dec 9, 2009 7:15 PM CST reply actions  

If Brewer leaves the team

He’ll get picked up by the Spurs or Celtics or Magic, and ESPN will rave about his defense. Guaranteed.

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 7:19 PM CST up reply actions  

isn't it the truth...

untill they see his offense :)

by TonyO on Dec 9, 2009 7:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Ahem

Check out Shane Battier’s career numbers

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 7:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Shane Battier

8 points, 3 rebounds, 2 assists per on 41% shooting

Bruce Bowen’s numbers are generally even worse. You’re letting your hate of one aspect of Corey’s game blind you to everything else he brings to the team.

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 7:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Bruce Bowen was San Antonio's shooting guard

And Battier does not play power forward. Ever. He played shooting guard all last year.

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 7:28 PM CST up reply actions  

It's a fluid situation, and one position isn't technically right

For simplicity and positional purity’s sake, I’d say they are small forwards who guard multiple positions. Their sizes and skills seem to fit that description better. All 3 of them can and have played at anywhere from the 2-4 during different games depending on who is on the court at the time. Bruce Bowen’s assignments ranged from CP3 to Dirk.

Obviously none of them play for their offensive gifts; the only difference is that Corey isn’t as physically limited as the other two and has potential. The other guys were basically relegated to corner-3 guys who concentrate on defense, much like James Posey.

If this period of development doesn’t help Corey expand his game and become more consistent, then I hope we can limit him offensively and let him do his thing on D. He’s downright putrid on offense right now, and if that never gets better then the offensive leash should yank him back.

by nja700 on Dec 9, 2009 7:58 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd also like to mention

That only in generic terms is Corey gonna be like Battier or Bowen or Posey. The common threads being far more valuable as defenders than offensive players and that

The skills all of those guys bring to the table are pretty different. The other two guys have limitations that Corey will never have, but there is no guarantee that Corey will be as good as them defensively at this point. I do think he’s worthwhile as a defender but we’ll know how worth it he is in a year or two. I’d love taking Battier’s career numbers from Corey if he can match Shane’s “no-stats All-Star” game.

by nja700 on Dec 9, 2009 8:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Flynn...

…sweet step-back jumper from deep.

by Boss10 on Dec 9, 2009 7:19 PM CST reply actions  

Roger Mason does nothing but shoot

There’s a reason he lost the starting job to a 40 year old Michael Finley

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 7:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, no thanks

Tweener guard who mainly shoots 3’s. He’s an okay player but I just don’t see any reason to get him on our young team. Not a guy that would make sense in our young rotation now or for the future. He’s a stopgap or bench player for a veteran team, not worth it for a team into player development whose development mainly centers around the guard spots.

by nja700 on Dec 9, 2009 7:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Flynn!!!

I feel like hes starting to get it.

by Stay Classy Joe on Dec 9, 2009 7:32 PM CST reply actions  

Whoa Nelly!

Ease up there!

Judd: "...I've since watched some Steven Seagal movies and I realise that pressure points are no laughing matter.".

by Auswolf on Dec 9, 2009 7:35 PM CST up reply actions  

We had to take Rubio

For PR’s sake if nothing else.

We’ll see what we can get for him. I have a feeling it’ll be something better than Curry Or DeRozan.

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 7:36 PM CST up reply actions  

The best part of bringing Love off the bench is...

…we actually have a bench. Love and Ellington give us a ton of quality play in comparison to most 6th and 7th men.

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 7:47 PM CST reply actions  

Ellington has to hit those wide open 3's

At the end of the day, that’s why he’s here

by Rascal Flatts on Dec 9, 2009 7:49 PM CST up reply actions  

No doubt

Kid is under 20% for the year. He’s in ‘leave him wide open territory’ now, which defeats his purpose.

Because there are no fours.
Toine

by CaliWolf on Dec 9, 2009 7:51 PM CST up reply actions  

The surprising though..

is that it doesn’t defeat his purpose, because he seems to be a Sessions-type really solid overall player. I didn’t see that coming.

by LoveTo on Dec 9, 2009 7:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Disagree

I see what you’re saying – he’s still useful. On the other hand, if he’s just decent without one elite skill he is replaceable. And if he can’t hit more than 1 in 5 3’s teams will adjust and slack off him to crowd the lane. He has to start hitting at least 1 in 3 3s or his effectiveness and value will never really be above replacement. But, I do agree his peripheral skills are better than I anticipated.

Because there are no fours.
Toine

by CaliWolf on Dec 9, 2009 7:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Replaceable, yes.

Bad value at 28th overall, no. In my opinion.

by LoveTo on Dec 9, 2009 7:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Good value

I thought it was a value pick on draft night. But I think the value of a guy who does everything well but nothing really well has less value than somebody who has no major deficits and one elite skill – which he should have, and hopefully it will start to show. If he can start hitting 35+% of his 3’s he will be a steal considering what else he is doing. If he can’t, just a decent pick and role player in the right situation.

Because there are no fours.
Toine

by CaliWolf on Dec 9, 2009 8:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Wow, Chicago is getting KILLED

76-46 Atlanta with 3 minutes left in the third.

I knew that playoff series last year was a fluke. That team is nothing without Ben Gordon.

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 7:49 PM CST reply actions  

Long term deal

Too expensive, and he’s overrated. Save the money for this summer

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 7:51 PM CST up reply actions  

More than likely have to over-pay for gay...Nobody want's to come play for the Wolves

Historically Bad Franchise…Extremely Cold Winters…nothing to me screams i wanna go play for the Wolves

by TonyO on Dec 9, 2009 7:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, John Salmons isn't the answer

Signing him or Travis Outlaw is the kind of move McHale would make. We need a star, and we won’t get one unless we try.

Though I think Gay is a lot more attainable than most people think.

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 7:58 PM CST up reply actions  

And Vinnie says ...

…he isn’t worried about his job. Yeah, good luck with that.

Because there are no fours.
Toine

by CaliWolf on Dec 9, 2009 7:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Someone asked David Thorpe when VDN was getting fired today on his EPSN

Can’t remember the answer…let me look it up.

The fact people are asking at all now is reason enough for him to be concerned.

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 7:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, when everbody has been deriding the guy..

..for being a terrible coach since the moment he was hired you can’t be secure. And when your team underperforms and everybody is calling for your job and you get blown out? Yeah, hope he’s lease is friendly.

Because there are no fours.
Toine

by CaliWolf on Dec 9, 2009 8:00 PM CST up reply actions  

God

Brewer can’t even make a FT

by JiveLive on Dec 9, 2009 7:56 PM CST reply actions  

Seriously

He needs to start rebounding and facilitating and getting into passing lanes here.

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 7:59 PM CST up reply actions  

would much rather keep gomes for a backup sf and not have picked up Brewer’s option

by JiveLive on Dec 9, 2009 7:56 PM CST reply actions  

Corey

Hit your free throws

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 8:07 PM CST reply actions  

7 points, 7 assists, 1 turnover for Jonny. Looking at his first career double double?

I feel like he could show Kevin-Love-like improvement throughout his rookie year. He seems more comfortable and like a point guard every game.

by LoveTo on Dec 9, 2009 8:07 PM CST reply actions  

agreed

give him time, he’ll be servicable

by JiveLive on Dec 9, 2009 8:08 PM CST up reply actions  

He's been steadily improving for a couple of weeks now

Second half of our last game against Portland, something clicked into place for him, and he’s been great ever since. Lots of assists, limited turnovers, very aggressive scoring.

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 8:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Seems the feed has crapped out...

I like seeing Flynn’s assist count rise over the last few games. Is this the triangle being used less often or Jonny improving?

Judd: "...I've since watched some Steven Seagal movies and I realise that pressure points are no laughing matter.".

by Auswolf on Dec 9, 2009 8:12 PM CST reply actions  

Both

I know when I was at the Utah game, the triangle was still being used a lot (could tell by the spacing of Gomes at the top and Wilkins, Jonny and Corey in the corners) and it just seemed like Jonny was a lot more comfortable.

He’s used to dominating the ball, that’s what he did at Syracuse. He’s getting better now at controlling the offense without needing the ball in his hands 90% of the time.

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 8:15 PM CST up reply actions  

The Best NBA Point Guard Poll they showed

Is the complete reverse of what is actually true. Tony Parker was winning by a long shot over (in descending order) Deron Williams, Steve Nash, and Chris Paul. All are fantastic, but I just don’t see how Chris Paul isn’t the best PG in the game. He averages absurd statistics on one of the slowest-paced teams in the league.

by nja700 on Dec 9, 2009 8:24 PM CST reply actions  

I wouldn't disagree with that

That’s who I’d take in that order for our team at least. I can see any argument for any order as long as Paul heads the list.

by nja700 on Dec 9, 2009 8:28 PM CST up reply actions  

San Antonio

is like randomly really active in online voting. Bruce Bowen finished like 3rd in All-Star game voting among Western conference forwards (?, think they listed him as a SF) and he wasn’t even getting regular minutes. So it’s no surprise that Parker would be on top.

by John Doe on Dec 9, 2009 10:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Pavlovic shouldn’t play-he doens’t even want to be on the team

by JiveLive on Dec 9, 2009 8:29 PM CST reply actions  

63% from the field as a team.

Who are these guys on the floor and what did they do with my precious Wolves?

You were a daydreamer, a sass-mouth, and, not infrequently, a bit of a gigglepuss. Somehow I doubt twenty years of amphetamines and failure have done anything to improve that.

by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on Dec 9, 2009 8:31 PM CST reply actions  

They can keep them, as far as I care.

by LoveTo on Dec 9, 2009 8:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Wilkins begins our precipitous decent back to earth.

You were a daydreamer, a sass-mouth, and, not infrequently, a bit of a gigglepuss. Somehow I doubt twenty years of amphetamines and failure have done anything to improve that.

by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on Dec 9, 2009 8:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Wilkins...

If you get the urge to shoot outside of 5 feet again, just breathe deeply until the feeling goes away!

by SoDakHmr on Dec 9, 2009 8:33 PM CST reply actions  

Ok, Love needs to get his head on straight

That was a good 2 minutes of pure suckage from him

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 8:41 PM CST reply actions  

Come on Wolves...

Hurry up and win already! Top Chef Finale on at 9!

by Volfie on Dec 9, 2009 8:45 PM CST reply actions  

Well, we're still ahead

And Jonny’s been really strong in the fourth quarter this year. Just gotta take care of the ball and not commit stupid fouls.

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 8:47 PM CST reply actions  

How is it possible?

We’ve committed 9 fouls and they’ve shot 19 FTs? No techs. We’ve committed 9 shooting fouls, and obe ob a 3? And nothing else? We have 12FTs after 14 NO fouls.

Because there are no fours.
Toine

by CaliWolf on Dec 9, 2009 8:50 PM CST reply actions  

oops

i/m an idiot, read 3Pt attempts as FT attempts. ignore

Because there are no fours.
Toine

by CaliWolf on Dec 9, 2009 8:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, especially when leading

You want to get beat by 2-point jumpers, not open 3’s. It’s not that difficult to key on a guy like that.

by Rascal Flatts on Dec 9, 2009 8:54 PM CST up reply actions  

turnover!

So many dumb passes, killing us

by ChicagoViking on Dec 9, 2009 8:52 PM CST reply actions  

Corey from the right side is hopeless.

He should never shoot from the right side. Never.

Because there are no fours.
Toine

by CaliWolf on Dec 9, 2009 8:56 PM CST reply actions  

Not sure what he's done tonight,

but prior to tonight he is 5 for 40 from the right side (not including layups or ‘close’ shots as defined by NBA hot spots). 5 fer effing 40, includin 0 -13 on 3s. An NBA player should be able to hit 13% from anywhere less than 27 feet away.

Because there are no fours.
Toine

by CaliWolf on Dec 9, 2009 8:59 PM CST up reply actions  

This is unacceptable.

by LoveTo on Dec 9, 2009 9:00 PM CST reply actions  

That's their run.

We have the ball down 4, 7 minutes left. Plenty of time. Just play, we are so in this.

Because there are no fours.
Toine

by CaliWolf on Dec 9, 2009 9:02 PM CST reply actions  

I'd like to see..

Jonny Flynn get assertive here.

by LoveTo on Dec 9, 2009 9:02 PM CST reply actions  

Don't worry, he will, you'll know when...

..he gets whistled for a charge

Because there are no fours.
Toine

by CaliWolf on Dec 9, 2009 9:03 PM CST up reply actions  

agree

flynn to the line to tie

by ChicagoViking on Dec 9, 2009 9:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Athde stream up

finally

Because there are no fours.
Toine

by CaliWolf on Dec 9, 2009 9:02 PM CST reply actions  

Charge!!!

Because there are no fours.
Toine

by CaliWolf on Dec 9, 2009 9:04 PM CST reply actions  

sorry, thought fer sure

Because there are no fours.
Toine

by CaliWolf on Dec 9, 2009 9:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh, great

Corey’s shooting free throws again…

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 9:06 PM CST reply actions  

that is wayne's spot

his only spot so far 5-9 there, 2-24 everywhere else beyond the arc

Because there are no fours.
Toine

by CaliWolf on Dec 9, 2009 9:06 PM CST reply actions  

brutal shooting

two open shots – two misses.

by ChicagoViking on Dec 9, 2009 9:06 PM CST reply actions  

When was the last time....

Ryan Gomes scored more than 20 and we lost?

Judd: "...I've since watched some Steven Seagal movies and I realise that pressure points are no laughing matter.".

by Auswolf on Dec 9, 2009 9:09 PM CST reply actions  

need a w.

really Friday, we lose by <10 and I am surprised.

by ChicagoViking on Dec 9, 2009 9:11 PM CST reply actions  

Winnable

5th game in a row?

Because there are no fours.
Toine

by CaliWolf on Dec 9, 2009 9:12 PM CST reply actions  

Stay home on defense

Run them off the three point line. Man, this is the kind of game where I wish we had a shotblocker down low

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 9:13 PM CST reply actions  

exactly

been getting killed by the 3 all year

by ChicagoViking on Dec 9, 2009 9:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Wow....terrible shot from West

Was that really the best they could draw up out of a timeout?

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 9:15 PM CST reply actions  

flynn saves corey

Because there are no fours.
Toine

by CaliWolf on Dec 9, 2009 9:16 PM CST reply actions  

then pisses it away

rook

Because there are no fours.
Toine

by CaliWolf on Dec 9, 2009 9:16 PM CST up reply actions  

execute

Because there are no fours.
Toine

by CaliWolf on Dec 9, 2009 9:18 PM CST reply actions  

what do you think about your offense's execution?

“I’m all for it.”

Because there are no fours.
Toine

by CaliWolf on Dec 9, 2009 9:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Don't forget the TO

by Corey dribbling into a crowd.

Because there are no fours.
Toine

by CaliWolf on Dec 9, 2009 9:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Not one good look

Flynn never looked back to Love rolling off the pick for an open 3. Tunnel vision

by dropstep on Dec 9, 2009 9:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Missed free throws...

…we can lament all night long, but if we win it won’t matter.

by Boss10 on Dec 9, 2009 9:19 PM CST reply actions  

With Brewer out there...

the Wolves are going 4 on 5 at the offensive end

by SoDakHmr on Dec 9, 2009 9:19 PM CST reply actions  

flynn

waited too long to set up a shot. I’ll take an early 2 over a late prayer

by ChicagoViking on Dec 9, 2009 9:19 PM CST reply actions  

Held on to the ball to long

He needs to learn to go with about 8 seconds left and execute a play, not just try and go one on one

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 9:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Just don't let it be

 a bail out call for CP3.

Because there are no fours.
Toine

by CaliWolf on Dec 9, 2009 9:20 PM CST reply actions  

it was correct

blame the rule not the refs. they initially got it wrong. the rule let them get it right. sux but true

Because there are no fours.
Toine

by CaliWolf on Dec 9, 2009 9:23 PM CST up reply actions  

wtf

are you kidding

Because there are no fours.
Toine

by CaliWolf on Dec 9, 2009 9:23 PM CST reply actions  

Predictable yet we didnt defend it.

by Stay Classy Joe on Dec 9, 2009 9:24 PM CST reply actions  

flynn

play d, why is he looking at the passer

by ChicagoViking on Dec 9, 2009 9:24 PM CST reply actions  

exactly

Because there are no fours.
Toine

by CaliWolf on Dec 9, 2009 9:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Terrible job by Flynn

got caught looking and moving toward the ball. Gotta stay with Paul there.

by Eric in Madison on Dec 9, 2009 9:24 PM CST reply actions  

I just wonder

If it was a poor choice of defensive playcalling. I don’t think Flynn is so ignorant as to leave the best PG in the game, after inbounding the ball, to streak to the basket. He obviously had the guy receiving the inbounds in his head from the get-go; it’s either a pretty stupid move or a poor coaching choice.

by nja700 on Dec 9, 2009 9:28 PM CST up reply actions  

how were the three guys on the backside the only ones in the building that didn’t realize it would be a straight give-and-go to paul? Horrible help defense.

by WMCL on Dec 9, 2009 9:31 PM CST up reply actions  

The Celtics game is the best example of that..

but if yo’uve been watching games you’ll see that Flynn does that ALL THE TIME.

His defense is terrible. He’s like a half notch above Randy Foye defensively right now.

by roundhouse on Dec 9, 2009 9:32 PM CST up reply actions  

That was exactly my question from last night...

…where is this evidence of Flynn being a great on-ball player? he hasn’t shown any promise in playing defense thus far. just completely lost out there. and isn’t wohl supposed to be a defensive guru? how about spending some extra time with jonny there, buddy?

by BVP on Dec 9, 2009 11:26 PM CST up reply actions  

So this is

the important learning experience that we’re giving Flynn by playing him at the end of winnable (and losable) games?

by dropstep on Dec 9, 2009 9:25 PM CST reply actions  

What kind of play was that?

A long three by Wayne when we’re down by 1???

by KGMN on Dec 9, 2009 9:27 PM CST reply actions  

Free throws, poor shot selection...

and sloppy 2nd half execution. One wing player that can shoot 50% would make this team 10 times better.

by SoDakHmr on Dec 9, 2009 9:30 PM CST reply actions  

WHAT

was that last play? NO AL??? Get it inside off in bounds pass to AL. Not burning a TO at the end of the 3rd bad move by Rambis. He let the game get away from him there.

by Conned on Dec 9, 2009 9:31 PM CST reply actions  

I f*cking hate Jonny Flynn!

Goddamnit! Flynn with -10, Sessions with +11, and Flynn singlehandedly costs us the game on both ends of the court!

What is it going to take for Sessions to be the starter?

by John Doe on Dec 9, 2009 9:32 PM CST reply actions  

I think if Flynn kills Rambis' dog...

he might be benched but it’s no guarantee

by roundhouse on Dec 9, 2009 9:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Keep in mind Flynn is playing primarily against Paul

Sessions primarily against Collison. It skews the +/- numbers.

One could argue that Sessions started the Hornets on that run with back-to-back turnovers and a charge.

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 9:33 PM CST up reply actions  

The way Collins

was abusing Ellington why didn’t Rambis put in Sessions. I know Sessions can’t shoot but he might have defended Collins. Heck, Wayne can’t shoot either for that matter.

by Conned on Dec 9, 2009 9:37 PM CST up reply actions  

That I don't know

I was thinking Flynn and Sessions should have both been out there too

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 9:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Coulda put in Sessions for Brewer

Sessions on Collison has more of an impact than Brewer on Peja, and it keeps the number of nonshooters at one. But heaven forbid we play our third best player important minutes…

by John Doe on Dec 9, 2009 9:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Corey was just not with it

I think the only reason he was in there was because Wayne and Damien were equally bad

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 9:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Exactly.

I think f*cking hating Jonny Flynn is a little harsh. He had, for the most part, a very good game, was one of the primary reasons they were ever up by 16 in the first place.

I saw a playmaking, dynamic point guard who screwed up a few times like any rookie would.

by LoveTo on Dec 9, 2009 9:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Too bad Corey's bucket was wiped away

Right call, but it took Jonny’s double double and a win away from us.

To be honest, I’m not sure why Sessions has a +12 tonight, because he was the point guard in the game when the Hornets rampaged on us in the third…

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 9:48 PM CST up reply actions  

That's not even close to being true

Sessions played against Collison for 3 1/2 minutes in each of the 2nd and 4th quarters. A small percentage of his overall plus came at the sart of the 2nd against Collison. The Wolves had their biggest lead at 78-62, (with Flynn in) and it fell to 80-75 before Sessions checked in, so he can’t be responsible for that run. The lead got as high as 7 with Sessions in but was at 4 (87-83) when he checked out for Flynn. I don’t know what Hornet’s run you’re referring to that he started.

by dropstep on Dec 9, 2009 9:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Specifically

Which stretch? The lead dropped from 16 to 5 with Flynn in the game, not Sessions

by dropstep on Dec 9, 2009 9:50 PM CST up reply actions  

It also...

ballooned to 16 with him in the game, throwing alley-oops to Gomes and thread-the-needle passes to Hollins, and getting to the rim at will against Chris Paul.

Right?

by LoveTo on Dec 9, 2009 9:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Sure, I'm not saying Flynn had a horrible game

I’m just not going to sit back and let Sessions get blamed for starting the Hornets run.

by dropstep on Dec 9, 2009 9:53 PM CST up reply actions  

It was pretty decidedly a team effort

But it happened without Sessions on the court

by dropstep on Dec 9, 2009 9:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Fair enough.

My point is that while Flynn definitely has a wild streak and needs to be reigned in (and forget all those zone defense principles he learned at Syracuse), it’s very clear from watching him, especially lately, that he has tons of talent.

It’s unfortunate that some of his miscues may have helped blow a lead and lose a close game, but to expect different from a rookie point guard is a little unrealistic.

At the end of the day, the Wolves have a jet-quick, strong, competitive point guard who already can get to the basket against anyone and show excellent court vision in transition (only in transition, but still). He is a playmaker. He clearly lacks polish and the nuances of the game, but how freaking good could he be if he learns those? And what reason is there to believe he won’t?

by LoveTo on Dec 9, 2009 10:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I've got no problem with Flynn's potential

But right now I’m not sure why he starts and, especially, finishes.

by dropstep on Dec 9, 2009 10:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Right.

And on a team with eyes on this season, he wouldn’t.

But do we agree that Flynn has considerably higher upside? (Not a rhetorical question, by the way.) And perhaps he gets enough developmental minutes early in the games. But I think the handling of this Flynn/Sessions thing is proof that Kahn and Rambis are going balls to the wall with this “player development” thing, and as frustrating as it is, it could (should?) pay dividends in a year or so.

by LoveTo on Dec 9, 2009 10:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh, that run

I was talking about the run that took the Hornets from down 5 to up 4.

That run that got the Hornets to withing 5…was really Love’s fault, to be honest.

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 9:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Sessions left the game for good

With the Wolves up 87-83. At that point Flynn and Paul came in, NO went to the 2 PG offense with Collison staying in, and in the blink of an eye with offensive fouls on Hollins and Brewer it was 87-91.

Don’t put it all on Love either.

by dropstep on Dec 9, 2009 10:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I just remember we were up by like 12 when Love checked in

He immediately turned the ball over, picked up a bunch of fouls and got whistled for illegal defense. We were only up by 5 when he went back out.

Another reason why +/- is a deceptive stat…Flynn didn’t do anything positive or negative in that time, yet his stat would have gone down by like, 10 just for being on the floor.

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 10:48 PM CST up reply actions  

And I acknowledge that.

But Sessions is consistently positive, and Flynn is consistently negative. It’s a trend that goes well beyond just this game.

Also, we’re talking a 23 point disparity between Sessions and Flynn this game. It would be a marked difference with or without that 7 point swing.

by John Doe on Dec 9, 2009 11:04 PM CST up reply actions  

I definitely agree with that

As well as with the statement that, at the least, Jonny and Sessions should be on the floor together at the end of these kinds of games.

We’ll have to see…the fact that the coaches always turn to Jonny no matter what indicates to me that Ramon isn’t going to be here next year…maybe not even next March.

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 11:12 PM CST up reply actions  

The play by play is easy to access

You’ll see that the lead was 13 when Love checked in. He promptly turned it over leading to a three pointer, lead was at 10. Brewer brought it back to 12, and then Paul brought it back to 10. Then it took only two empty possessions from the Wolves, a missed jumper by Flynn and a turnover by Hollins and wham it was 5. Gomes had a turnover after that, which along with Love’s subsequent illegal defense did not hurt the club when Peja missed the FT and Paul turned it over. So Love’s turnover was equally damaging in the run as was Flynn’s missed jumper. As I stated, it was a team effort.

by dropstep on Dec 10, 2009 12:58 AM CST up reply actions  

So we can't put all the blame on Jonny either

Or Corey for that matter.

That’s the point I’m trying to make

by Oceanary on Dec 10, 2009 1:05 AM CST up reply actions  

Of course not

You can’t put the blame for a game on one player. Or a run. 16 point leads don’t disappear because of one guy, or on only one end of the court. But you tried to blame first Sessions then Love for the collapse. Now over one or two end of the game possessions it becomes a little easier to start pointing fingers…

by dropstep on Dec 10, 2009 1:15 AM CST up reply actions  

I just think Jonny's taking an unfair amount of flak here

And I’m pointing out other players who are at fault too.

Although I don’t find it a coincidence that Love checks in and our lead goes from 13 to 5 in a matter of 3 minutes…

by Oceanary on Dec 10, 2009 1:24 AM CST up reply actions  

To repeat:

I understand that +/- numbers aren’t very reliable for individual games. But it’s been a running theme, where every game Flynn is extremely negative and Sessions is neutral or positive. That’s no fluke, and when I cite this game, it’s with the implied subtext of it being a particularly egregious example in a long chain of failure.

More than that, there’s the fact that Flynn got crunch time minutes against Toronto in a game in which he was outplayed by Sessions and was instrumental in screwing things up us. So one night later, the same situation once again presents itself, and Flynn once again blows the game in crunch time.

by John Doe on Dec 10, 2009 2:52 AM CST up reply actions  

Yea but Flynn is a high 1st round draft pick...

canishoopus members will make excuses for him for at least another 3 years

by roundhouse on Dec 9, 2009 9:50 PM CST up reply actions  

you're just salty still cause you had that one post on Twolvesblog that everyone ripped to pieces

Seriously it wasn’t personal, you mostly write good stuff, but that was a bad post.

by roundhouse on Dec 9, 2009 10:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Ugh

Isn’t it a generalization to say that posters on here will make excuses for Flynn for the next 3 years? Obviously making excuses for guys like Brewer ring hollow with anyone who watches the game but it’s not a stretch to say that Flynn has played decently compared to other top 10 rookies or to say that what a player does in the first 2 months of his career doesn’t determine how good he’ll be.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Dec 9, 2009 10:36 PM CST up reply actions  

I really like Flynn

but his half court game and shot are suspect. He needs to calm that wild streak down on O & learn basic man, ball, rim principles on D or he’ll never “get it” as a big time starter.

by Conned on Dec 9, 2009 10:10 PM CST up reply actions  

I am hoping that there will be

a lot of game film breakdown this summer with Flynn and the coaching staff to show him what his responsiblities are in each of those situations he blew.

by TheEvilProfessor on Dec 10, 2009 8:03 AM CST up reply actions  

missed the game

take it though the wolves blew it again in the fourth

by uncle rico on Dec 9, 2009 9:38 PM CST reply actions  

moral victory?

at least they weren’t blown out

by uncle rico on Dec 9, 2009 9:38 PM CST up reply actions  

ok, thanks.

seems as though they’re playing better ball with Love.

by uncle rico on Dec 9, 2009 9:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Love is a beast

I’d take him over OJ any day.

by Conned on Dec 9, 2009 9:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Rambis spit the bit

in 3rd with no Time out called during that run. Wolves lost mojo and a listless Hornets team, til that time, smelled blood.

by Conned on Dec 9, 2009 9:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe something he learned from Phil?

Phil Jackson has always had the reputation of not calling a T during a big run to try and let his players figure it out. Of course, the players he was having figure it out were considerably more talented. Whatever the reason, we’re wracking up a lot of “learning opportunities” this year.

by aarendsvark on Dec 9, 2009 11:06 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree

Flynn has raw ability, but his wild streak with the ball & lack of defense scares me.

by Conned on Dec 9, 2009 9:50 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree

Flynn has raw ability, but his wild streak with the ball & lack of defense scares me.

by Conned on Dec 9, 2009 10:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Absolutely ridiculously, to the level of altering the game. the discrepancy on those calls between the 2 teams was some of the worst reffing I’ve ever seen.

When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

by Xand1 on Dec 9, 2009 11:18 PM CST up reply actions  

During our 15-game losing streak...

Every poster here seemed to want the Wolves to just “be competitive.” Well, they’ve clearly moved out of the Blown-Out-Every-Night phase. It’s a good thing, but these close losses are considerably more frustrating than the boring blowouts.

Hopefully sometime later in the year, we can move into the “Winning Almost as Often as Losing” phase. For this middle section, though, one gets the feeling we’re going to be lamenting a lot of clutch screw-ups…

by LoveTo on Dec 9, 2009 9:54 PM CST reply actions  

Frustrating yes

But another step in the right direction.

by Rumblebee on Dec 9, 2009 10:02 PM CST reply actions  

Not sure what to think. I’m willing to let a rookie learn from mistakes, but that’s just bad execution all around: sag off Paul or bring help before he gets in the lane (though it looked like West had Gomes pinned, which may or may not have been legally). And the final play wasn’t executed, either. Losing games like that sucks because they weren’t necessarily outplayed or beaten due to lack of effort.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Dec 9, 2009 10:19 PM CST reply actions  

If nothing else, one of the coaches should have said something to Jonny

Rookie mistake by Rambis too. I mean, when you see Paul as the inbounder, you have to know the ball is going back to him.

by Oceanary on Dec 9, 2009 10:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Not to argue

but rookies should know to defend the inbounder. High school kids do. Well, I didn’t see the game and should refrain from posting.

by uncle rico on Dec 10, 2009 3:22 AM CST up reply actions  

No, you're right...

It was a bonehead play by Flynn. He was guarding the best player on the floor and immediately lost sight of him after he threw it in.

I don’t agree with what seems like a lot of Flynn-bashing, though. For one thing, until Love’s return he was one of two players (along with Jefferson) who were capable of doing anything offensively for the team. For another, he’s playing his first NBA games and deserves a longer leash than a guy who has been in the league for a couple years. He makes rookie mistakes, but has a clear upside that’s higher than Sessions’.

by Andy G on Dec 10, 2009 7:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Random Thought:

At the Kentucky-UConn game (which John Wall completely took over at the end, by the way) they showed Pat Riley and Michael Douglas sitting next to each other.

And if there is ever a movie about Pat Riley, Michael Douglas will play him. I guarantee it.

by LoveTo on Dec 9, 2009 10:50 PM CST reply actions  

a PG with a 2:7 assist to turnover ratio?

i’m not saying that wall isn’t good, and i didn’t watch the game, but 2 assists against 7 turnovers is not a good performance from a point guard.

by BVP on Dec 9, 2009 11:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Played great

It wasn’t a good performance, but a great one, regardless of the box score. I think Wall is more concerned about winning than stats, and he needs to be risky and aggressive with the ball to give his team the best chance at beating good teams.

It’s pretty amazing that UK is undefeated with freshman leadership after playing all these good teams.

by Andy G on Dec 9, 2009 11:41 PM CST up reply actions  

12 of his team's last 15 points, including a ridiculous and-1 in the last minute down by 1..

is a phenomenal performance, no matter what position you play. Although Wall does seem to be a freakish mutant version of Jonny Flynn, in that he’s more attacker and scorer than orchestrator. Good Lord, I have visions of Rubio-Wall.

by LoveTo on Dec 10, 2009 12:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Better not go there.

When we finish with the worst record but don’t get the first pick, it’ll make it all the more painful.

by LoveTo on Dec 10, 2009 10:10 AM CST up reply actions  

Indeed

this monikering may just jinx the Wolves.

by uncle rico on Dec 10, 2009 10:25 AM CST up reply actions  

Gomes

Has been very solid the last two weeks. Averaging 19 per for the last 5 games. Is the consensus still that picking up next year’s option is too much? If we were able to land a more athletic wing (Gay), Gomes would be a high quality 6th/7th man.

by TWolvesFanInLA on Dec 9, 2009 11:40 PM CST reply actions  

Gomes is a good deal at his money

he’d be a great guy off the bench. Hollins had a 20 point game in his hands….. IF HE COULD FLIPPING CATCH THE BALL. He runs so well and catches so bad.

by Conned on Dec 9, 2009 11:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Good Time to Trade Him

Next Tuesday could be an interesting day when people who signed over the summer can be traded. Maybe trading Sessions and Gomes could fetch us something nice.

by Jaughn on Dec 10, 2009 1:46 AM CST reply actions  

Not Sure How I Feel About That

I think it is imperative to get a high draft pick in the 2010 draft and I really don’t want to add any quality until we are staring down at least a Top 5 pick. Then I am not sure I want to trade assets for a player that we can get over the summer through free agency. I would absolutely love to add a great wing shooter, like Anthony Morrow.

by Jaughn on Dec 10, 2009 2:41 AM CST reply actions  

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