Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Tiger Woods Makes His 2012 PGA Tour Debut

Captain Kirk

T1_skileshinrich_medium

With rumors that the Wolves are interested in acquiring the services of Kirk Hinrich, I thought it would be a good idea if we took a look at what the former Kansas star brings (and doesn't bring) to the table.  

First, let's take a look at the positives.  Kirk Hinrich is a 28 year old point in his 6th professional season who would allow Randy Foye to remain off the ball, where he is, at this point in time, an undoubtedly more effective player than he is on it.  During his best season (06), Hinrich avaraged 16.6 points, 6.3 assists, 3.4 rebounds, and an eFG% of .514.  Hinrich is an above average perimeter defender who can handle the ball and who has led a team into the playoffs. 

Beyond this limited resume, Kirk comes with a rather large cache of negatives.  First and foremost, he is the proud owner of an albatross of a contract; four years 3 years remaining on a declining scale from $10 mil in 08/09 to $8 mil in 11/12.  That's 4 3 years and $26.5 mil for those of you playing along at home.  Should the Wolves be able to move Hinrich for Cardinal's contract (which, at this point, doesn't make much sense either) they would take a $3.25 hit in 08/09 and the full brunt of Hinrich's contract for the remaining 3 2 years.  In a year with 3-4 first round picks with a point-heavy field of players, is Hinrich worth a $33 $23 million investment?  Looking at his career arc, that answer is a resounding "no". 

Outside of his career best output in 06/07, Hinrich has been a player with consistently diminishing returns.  This is especially troubling in a 28 year old well paid player with nearly 15,000 minutes played. 

Hinrich is averaging 0.85 points/play while relying on the 3 ball more than he has since his rookie campaign.  If he were able to maintain his career high of 41% from long range, this wouldn't be a bad thing.  However, his current mark of .347 is more in line with his career average than his number in 06.  Since posting that high number Hinrich has put up .350 and .347 from long distance while relying more on the long ball to be modestly effective. 

His PER has also seen a steady decline since his career year, currently it sits at 12.9.  Even before his high water mark of 17, he posted rather average efficiency numbers: 15.3 and 15.5.  Would these numbers be attached to a player without such a large contract, they wouldn't seem quite so bad but Hinrich is being paid to be something other than an average or replacement level player when he is not. 

Hinrich currently sports a 0.7 WARP.  The good news here is that this would automatically put him in the upper tier of Wolves performers.  He is a net positive contributor who holds opponents below their averages while keeping his own offense afloat.  The bad news is that the Wolves would likely be significantly overpaying for what only amounts to average production. 

$10 mil/season, even with a declining scale, is a lot of money to spend on a player whose upper level appears to be a slightly above average performer.  I'll once again go back to this year's draft crop; a grouping of players which looks to be deep at the point.  In an environment with limited resources, would the Wolves be better served to draft a Ty Lawson, Jrue Holiday, or even Nick Calathes to share the point minutes with Bassy while spending $10 mil on Samuel Dalembert or Marvin Williams or would they be better off hoping to hit the big man/swing jackpot in the draft while putting their eggs in Hinrich's basket?  Remember, Bassy is not the problem here.  The minutes that Bassy is off the ball or on the bench are.  Is Bassy a starting point?  Probably not, but the Wolves, as a team, are a net + when he's out there at the point.  Is this a problem that requires a 4-year $10 mil solution, or is that money best spent at the 4/5 or 3? 

Let's take a look at two other rumors out there: Dalembert to the Wolves for Cardinal, Jason Collins, and Shaddy, and the Wizards willing to part with their 1st round pick for expiring assets. 

Dalembert is owed a lot of money.  He has 3 years and roughly $36 mil 2 years and roughly $25 mil remaining on his deal.  The numbers don't decline.  However, he immediately could take 30 minutes at the 4/5 while being an above average performer with defensive credibility.  He would immediately compliment both Al Jefferson and Kevin Love while filling a need that is not contained in spades in this year's draft: an athletic big. With Tyson Chandler off the board, Dalembert remains the Wolves' best hope for this particular type of player.  Over at our excellent sister site Sactown Royalty, Ziller lays out the case for Big Sam:

Chandler's reputation is much stronger than that of Dalembert, though I can't really understand why. The only real, measurable advantages for Chandler are that he is 17 months younger, that he refuses to shoot if he can't dunk (hence the higher FG%) and he doesn't put the ball on the floor ever.

Dalembert is an equal or slightly better rebounder, a far better shot-blocker, is slightly cheaper in salary and MUCH cheaper in terms of acquisition costs. If Chandler would have cost John Salmons and an expiring contract, Dalembert has the sort of stigma that might end up with Philadelphia pay the Kings to take him away.

I'll admit that I'm not a big Dalembert fan but his resume fits the bill of what the Wolves are looking for.  The costs of acquiring him are roughly the same as bringing on Hinrich and he wouldn't hamstring a team with 4 possible first rounders from taking a point in a point-heavy draft. 

The second deal is one that I think the Wolves should pursue with all hands on deck.  Should the Wiz maintain the status quo while landing the top pick, they are looking at a $26 mil price tag to keep that player.  The Wolves have expiring contracts (Shaddy, Colllins, and Calvin Booth), young cheap players (Craig Smith), and stashed 2nd round Euros without guaranteed contracts (Nikola Pekovic) that could provide the Wiz with everything they could hope to receive in such a cost-cutting measure.  Hell, it looks like the Wolves will not receive the Utah pick this year; they could even throw that in for the Wiz's unconditional first.  Even if they brought on Etan Thomas, Juan Dixon, and Mike James, they are likely not looking at a lux tax hit in 08/09.  Pekovic and the Utah pick could be pushed off into the future when Washington is not in salary cap hell and the Wolves could be left with two top 5 picks.  This option would cost significantly less than either the Dalembert or Hinrich options and it would leave the team with future cap flexibility when Thomas and James clear the books.  I don't have to remind you that having 2 top 5 picks in a 3 man draft puts your favorite team in a solid position going forward.  This option would also preserve Mike Miller and Brian Cardinal (along with James) as expiring 08/09 deals.  If there is any truth to this rumor, let's hope the Wolves are giving it serious thought.  Pekovic and a future Utah pick + expiring contracts are everything the Wiz need to avoid taking a massive cap hit next year if they are unable to move Butler or Jameson before the deadline. 

Wrapping this thing up, Hinrich is an average player with a ceiling that is just above average.  He is a net positive performer who can hold down the minutes that Bassy does not take at the point while allowing Foye to remain off the ball.  If he were a $5-6 mil/year player, this would be a no-brainer type of trade.  However, if he were a $5-6 mil/year player, the Bulls probably wouldn't be thinking about trading him.  The Wolves would be much better served filling their point guard gap in the draft while using their assets to pursue Samuel Dalembert or the Wizards #1 pick. 

Of course, the Bulls could make this deal more interesting by the inclusion of Ty Thomas or Joakim Noah with Mike Miller going back the other way.  But that's just a bunch of speculation.  Here's hoping for the best. 

Until later.

UPDATE: The Bulls just made a deal with the Kings for John Salmons and Brad Miller.  Amazingly, they were able to include Andres Nocioni in the deal.  If you look at the deal in Trade Machine, you will see that the Bulls are taking on about $8 mil in 09/10 salary.  In other words, you wouldn't expect a team like the Bulls to make this sort of move unless they had a way with which to move a player like Hinrich.  If I were a betting man, I'd say they have an agreed-to Hinrich deal on the table.  Who it is with, I don't know.

UPDATE ii: Keep an eye on who plays in tonight's Bulls/Bucks match up at 7:00 PM CST.

UPDATE iii: Thanks to a heads-up reader for telling me that Sham Sports is a bit confusing on Hinrich's contract information.  They have 2008 listed as this current season, rather than 07/08.  Hinrich has 3 years and $26.5 mil remaining on his deal according to multiple other sources.  Still...a lot of money for an average player. Dalembert has 2 years and $25 mil remaining.  I will make the changes above.

Comment 23 comments  |  1 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

I can dig it

But putting a 19-year old PG in charge of this team for any stretch is going to be a disappointment this year, as well as the year after. Seasoning Lawson/Holliday/Calathes behind Bassy and Hinrich allows them to bring the baby along at a measured pace, rather than throwing him to the Wolves (get it?) right away.

Heck, Derrick Rose has been hailed as the point guard of a generation, performed admirably with verygood players at the 2-3, and the Bulls have still been a major disappointment (VDN for UnCoach of the Year?).

I don’t like taking on Hinrich unless Noah is with him. But the Bulls might be willing to move Noah to get Hinrich off the books.

by PoorDick on Feb 18, 2009 3:24 PM CST reply actions  

I think they can get buy with the 19 or 20 year old...

…at 20 mpg for the first 2 years. I know I’ve said I’ll go radio silence on him, but with the Heat pick I think they can get max value with Calathes while hopefully landing someone like Harden or Turner with the top pick (or better…i.e. Griffin).

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Feb 18, 2009 5:19 PM CST up reply actions  

The Chicago Tribune

is putting the rumor out about Hinrich for Collins/Cardinal, and calling it a salary dump (an interesting perspective from the other side of the trade is up at Blogabull. Until this afternoon, they were certain Nocioni would never be able to be peddled).

The optimal deal is still the one for the Wizards’ pick. But the next one might be Miller for Dalembaert (plus another one of their picks?), and then either adding Andre Miller in for whatever it takes, or signing Andre Miller to a short contract in the offseason. I’d love to see what he could do for the last few months of this season, or 20-25 minutes at the PG for the Wolves next year. He might be a value veteran until the young PG develops enough to start.

A veteran point guard plus Dalembaert and a healthy Al Jefferson is enough to put this team into the playoffs next year, especially if Dallas, Golden State, the Clippers, Phoenix either stay the same, decline, or blow up and start over. Then by the time Hinrich/Miller and Sammy are off the books, we’ll have Bassy, Foye, Al, Love, CoBrew, plus the three rooks added in this draft to take over a declining Lakers, Spurs, Jazz, and Nuggets teams. T’Wolves, Blazers, OKC, and Memphis will be competing to be the West Coast champ for years to come (Small Markets Represent!).

by PoorDick on Feb 18, 2009 5:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Two things:

1. I don’t mind Dalembert. A capable big who can rebound and, more importantly, defend? A big that would allow Big Al and Love to guard other players and create more offensive mismatches? I’m OK with that. I’m not convinced the upcoming draft will solve that problem (meaning there aren’t any Love type bigs with excellent basketball IQ. I could be wrong, though).

2. Going for the Wizard’s pick would be awesome. However, the only thing that makes me really nervous about it is the fact that we don’t know who’s in control of our FO. Assuming we did the trade and ended with 2 picks in the top 7, do we trust our guys to not mess it up?
A brief reminder of TWolves top sevens:
’90—Felton Spencer, #6
’91—Luc Longley, #7
’92—Christian Laettner, #3
’93—Isaiah “My pipes froze” Rider, #5
’94—Donyell Marshall, #4
’95—KG, #5
’96—Ray Allen, #5
’99—Wally World, #6
’06—Brandon Roy, #6
’07—Corey Brewer, #7
’08—OJ Mayo, #3

Granted, if we’d held on to some of those guys we’d be looking quite good, but I guess that’s (in part) my point—do you trust the FO to hit on two very high picks?

by biggity2bit on Feb 18, 2009 3:27 PM CST reply actions  

The current front office can’t really be connected to anything that happened before 1995, and since then the biggest screw ups have been trades and later draft picks like Will Avery and Ndubi Ebi or whatever his name is. Top five picks are a precious commodity even if it’s a bit of crap shoot. Even if you have a big fat idiot running the draft, you have a fair chance of getting a good player, something like a 2/5 to 4/5 chance depending on the draft and the exact spot of the pick.

by oblivionspocket on Feb 18, 2009 4:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Agreed...

….well put. The liklihood of getting the type of player this team needs is much, much higher in the top 5:

http://82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Feb 18, 2009 5:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Don’t know if this would affect any Bulls/Wolves trades, but the bulls apparently traded Nocioni, Gooden, and Cedric Simmons to the Kings for John Salmons and Brad Miller.

by oblivionspocket on Feb 18, 2009 4:33 PM CST reply actions  

wow...

…they got rid of Nocioni. That’s amazing. He’s awful.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Feb 18, 2009 5:22 PM CST up reply actions  

BTW:

I think this increases the chances of Kirk Hinrich landing with the Wolves. Here’s the trade in Trade Machine:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b4cgwy

The Bulls are taking on an additional $8 mil in 09/10 salary. That isn’t exactly favorable for their cap and Hinrich’s deal would put them back where they probably want to be.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Feb 18, 2009 5:28 PM CST up reply actions  

The Chicago Tribune is saying that

Hinrich to the Wolves for Collins and Cardinal…. i dont know if this is a for sure or not but. heres the story.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi090218-chicago-bulls-trade-kings-timberwolves,0,6447170.story

Updated 45 minutes ago…interesting.

by Tony_O on Feb 18, 2009 5:40 PM CST reply actions  

http://www.justin.tv/intevision4

Seems a bit choppy but here’s hoping it smooths out. Good audio for a change.

by TMiss on Feb 18, 2009 6:40 PM CST up reply actions  

ok...

..game thread is up

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Feb 18, 2009 6:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Ugh...

I’ve always said it’s one thing to raze a terrible team and get into good position (and the Wolves have done that); it’s quite another to construct something in its place. Hinrich would not accomplish that, and in fact would erase much of the “favorable position” the Wolves have achieved. Hinrich has a flat out bad contract, and short of Noah getting thrown in, the Wolves should want nothing to do with it. As SnP noted, they’re virtually guaranteed some PG options in the draft (and don’t get me started on how they had a PG who has the exact same strengths as Hinrich—defense, steady ballhandling, and shooting—fall to them in the 2nd round last year in Chalmers, whom they sold off for a future 2nd pick; maybe they’re still too busy patting themselves on the back over that move to remember this?)

And what really burns—if this happens—is it would be evidence Taylor and the Wolves are one of the rare teams out there right now willing to add salary. As a fan, what a golden situation. To come out of it with just Hinrich would be a huge missed opportunity. So goes the conundrum of Glen Taylor: he’s an owner who will invest in his product; he just doesn’t have the right people in place to do it wisely. He’d be better off investing some change in a front office upgrade. If the team had any sort of confidence in its evaluation ability, they wouldn’t need to chase marginal return guys like Hinrich.

by jianfu on Feb 18, 2009 6:39 PM CST reply actions   2 recs

Minnesota Timberwolves – Miami Heat

LIVE

http://www.iddaliyim.tr.gg

by iddaliyim on Feb 18, 2009 6:40 PM CST reply actions  

T-Wolves should only be considering this if Bulls are including Noah. There has to be a premium paid for taking Hinrich of their books.

by TWolvesFanInLA on Feb 18, 2009 8:00 PM CST reply actions  

Easy on the Noah love...

I’m a T-Wolves fan in Chicago. I see Noah play all the time. He shows up about once every ten games. DO NOT be fooled by the occassional highlight on SportsCenter. He is a nutty, pothead, troublemaker. We want no part of him.

Now Tyrus Thomas…if we could get him…now we’re talking. He is just starting to get it, and could become a dominant defensive player with decent offensive skills.

"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"

by mutleyil on Feb 18, 2009 10:50 PM CST up reply actions  

YES to Sam...soft NO to the Capt...

I have been holding Sam Dalembert up for years as the perfect example of the Center we need. Big-time shot blocker and alterer, good rebounder, and no need to run offense through him since he’s a “Clean-Up Man.” Great complement for Big Al or Big Love, and would allow us to push up and play better perimeter D by giving us a legitimate basket protector.

Can’t say I love the idea of Hinrich, but if we can get him for Cardinal and Collins, I will drive him from Chicago to MSP. He is a great perimeter defender (which we need), can run a half-court set, and hit the occassional 3.

Bottom line: I like the Dalembert deal. I only like the Hinrich deal IF it is done in conjunction with the Dalembert deal, or else it’s pointless to do it this year wih the depth of PG in the draft. If both of these things happened, it would mean we could package some picks to trade up for a stud 3, but unfortunately ther aren’t any of those in this draft. I would rather take the available deal for Sam. Then package picks, expiring contracts, and Shaddy to get 2 top 10’s this year. We could easily score a PG like Lawson, Holiday, Collison and a SG/SF like DeRozan.

"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"

by mutleyil on Feb 18, 2009 10:44 PM CST reply actions  

Addendum...

I know DeRozan hasn’t been talked about in lottery circles. I’ve watched a lot of Pac-10 lately, and this guy is turning into a man among boys. He has been taking over a lot of games lately, offensively and defensively. He reminds me a lot of Mayo, only he doesn’t lose interest as much as OJ did when he was in college.

"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"

by mutleyil on Feb 18, 2009 10:56 PM CST up reply actions  

That's great to hear

Aside from Blake Griffin and maybe Greg Monroe, DeRozan is the only guy (assuming these guys all declare) in the ‘09 Crop with huge upside. I hope USC makes the tournament and we get to see DeMar on a bigger stage. The guy is a freak, from the little I’ve seen.

by Andy G on Feb 19, 2009 10:17 AM CST up reply actions  

good points...

but I have to say, to me the thing that really intrigued me about the Hinrich deal was Sefolosha (sp?). I’ve only seen him play a couple of times but it’s enough to convince me that the Bulls are really misusing him. I think he could be really good…would have been nice to see him be really good for the Wolves. Probably not worth Hinrich’s contract, it’s true, but I did get excited when I saw his name out there.

by plinytheelder on Feb 20, 2009 9:36 AM CST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Canis Hoopus is straight T-Wolves straight from Minnesota.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
Singing the Memphis Blues: Wolves Report Card 2/8/12
Img_2198_small
Not another Spaniard... hold up... wot?
George_mikan_small
I was there the Night Anthony Morrow scored 42 points
Small
Not 'yet another spaniard'...
Small
Another Spaniard fan! thanks for this forum :)

Recent FanPosts

Small
An Idiot Abroad
Small
D12? Welcome to the Island of Misfit Toys (With Poll!!!)
Small
2/10 Dallas -2 at Wolves
Small
My thoughts on the game last night
148822_1678175523391_1507601904_1661509_8222729_n_small
Austin Rivers?
Me_small
I'm Going to Friday's Game Against the Mavs!
Beard_small
2012 NBA Rumor/Happenings Thread
Small
Trade Love - It Just Makes Sense.
Small
All around the globe

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Canis Hoopus Twitter

    follow me on Twitter

    Hoopus Features

    HOOPUS FAQ

    Salary Cap Info

    Draft Info

    Player Movement Flow Charts

    Draft Boards

    Former Tag Lines:

    • In desperate need of an epic dose of basketball Viagra
    • Your source of radical left wing politics cleverly disguised as basketball fandom
    • Palin-Free since before statehood
    • Despairy Home Companion
    • The world's leading exporter of small area quickness
    • Sorry…I have no idea who is Joe Mauer
    • Home of the Peja deep douche
    • Vote McGrady!
    • Bork, bork, bork, bork, bork
    • Wir Sind Darko
    • Weird, unhealthy Darko mania
    • les goûts et les couleurs ne se discutent pas
    • Basketball success makes character issues forgivable
    • Building the Boogie Bandwagon
    • Building the Dream....One Power Forward At A Time
    • Kids, Puppy Dogs, And Long Walks In The Park
    • SWITCH THE FLIP!!!
    • Team Red Pill.
    • December is Bunny Month. Survive it with insincerity and Merle Haggard.
    • Like having a really good seat at a beheading.
    • We've got to have rules and obey them. After all, we're not savages. We're Wolves fans, and Wolves fans are best at everything.
    • Getting Real Mythological
    • Trapped in Punxsawawney
    • BIIYYYOOOMMMBOOOOOOO!!!
    • Estoy llevando mi talento a Minnesota
    • Where sharks do battle with giant eagles
    • You don’t put a saddle and reins on a magical unicorn, you bareback it and put faith in nature
    • Toeing the line between nerd and loser

    Hoopus Recipe Book

    Let's Settle This:


    Self-Promotion

    BallHype Sports Blog Rankings


    Managers

    Dr wyn

    Journey_small Stop-n-Pop

    Rviy7fbgmhz5ht2dpgo6q0jfu_small TimAllen

    Editors

    Wolveslogo_small Oceanary

    Authors

    Small SG

    Hrbek_small Jon Marthaler