The presumed favorite in the Minnesota Timberwolves' quiet search for a new head of basketball operations has pulled out of the running.
San Antonio Spurs assistant general manager Dennis Lindsey, widely billed as the Wolves' No. 1 target, has withdrawn from consideration, according to sources with knowledge of Minnesota's search.
Lindsey is one of only two known external candidates, along with former Indiana Pacers executive David Kahn, to interview for the position, although one source said Friday that former Miami Heat general manager Randy Pfund could soon interview with the Wolves if he already hasn't.
Trying to import a head of basketball operations from San Antonio seemed a wise path for Wolves owner Glen Taylor to follow in his desire to find a new long-term successor on the personnel side to Kevin McHale. Front offices in Cleveland (Danny Ferry and Lance Blanks), Portland (Kevin Pritchard) and Oklahoma City (Sam Presti) are all run by recent Spurs alumni.
Lindsey could not be immediately reached for comment. The Spurs said Friday that he's in Germany this weekend scouting the EuroBasket final.
From ESPN.
almost 3 years ago
Stop-n-Pop
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I'm officially pissed.
Withholding comment for now….
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by wyn on May 1, 2009 4:38 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
And by withholding comment...
… I mean except for my reactionary disappointment.
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by wyn on May 1, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I changed the header on the blog
we are now the NBA leader in future OKC Thunder fans.
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Next stop, David Kahn
and a team full of thugs, like he put together in Indiana.
If Lindsey is out and Pfund comes into the mix
that probably means that Taylor really doesn’t want Kahn either.
I have a feeling if Pfund doesn't work out...
… we’ll just go with an internal hire. Sigh.
by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on May 1, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions
An internal hire would be embarassing.
And I’m guessing Pfund would still mean Taylor and others have influence. Change is so impossible for the Wolves.
This sucks...
Why the hell is Glen Taylor steadfast on using a management style that has almost completely ruined his team? This is frickin ridiculous!
Glen Taylor is like a girl that always finds herself attracted to douche-bag boyfriends (apologies to any Canis Hoopus readers that look like this guy and use the word “gay” as an adjective…I consider you to be a Douche Bag). All of her friends try to tell her that the guys she picks are complete a-holes, but she keeps going back for more. “Management by committee”, you are the douche-bag boyfriend.
If I could laugh right now, I would.
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by wyn on May 1, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Wasn't the problem...
More when McHale had the final say in everything? The committee approach the last two seasons has worked significantly better than what came before it. I wanted Lindsey, too, and if giving him full authority was what needed to be done, then that’s what needed to be done. However, the committee wasn’t the problem; it probably salvaged what might’ve been a worse situation.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 1, 2009 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't forget..
….that what this really means is that their #1 candidate, who just happens to come from the best franchise in the league, turned THEM down. He didn’t take the job because he didn’t think they had what it took for him to take one or 30 jobs in the entire world that run a pro basketball franchise and work the job like he would want to…i.e. in a winning manner. The reason he didn’t get what he wanted was because an ownership group coming off blown drafts, terrible free agent signings, embarrassing coaching decisions, and sub-25 win seasons, couldn’t bare to give up certain parts of the status quo.
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Right
Plus, Glen’s unwillingness to build a winner now will be more disastrous than it originally appears. He’s going to be competing for attention, ticket sales, and advertising in a terrible economy, in a town with a short attention span (especially for below-average teams), against a college football team with a shiny new stadium and a young baseball team with a shinier newer stadium—plus, the Vikings, and an improving Gopher basketball team.
I wish him luck.
The most significant thing...
Is that he’s made it more difficult for the diehards to continue following. The Wolves have made decent moves in the past two years, but the instant credibility of a hiring like this would give them a needed boost. No matter what they do, this will be in the back of many people’s minds. I, for one, would’ve given him more slack if this hiring would’ve been made. But maybe he’s okay with that. He’s certainly rubbing people the wrong way.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 1, 2009 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Disagree
From what I hear, Lindsay did not take the job because he asked for a long term deal at an upper level salary plus significant $$$ to upgrade the rest of the front office. Taylor balked because Taylor felt he was hiring an “unproven” candidate that did not deserve such $$$$. Taylor countered with an incentive based contract that might have gotten Lindsay close (if all incentives were met) Lindsay said no thanks – meaning, at least to me, Lindsay did not feel the incentives target were realistic.
It has nothing to do with McHale. (As I have said before, most Twolves staff expect McHale to gracefully bow out if an outsider is hired). Does not have all that much to do with control. It does have a bunch to do with $$$$. This job is not considered a “plum” and Lindsay wanted “combat pay” to take it.
My position continues to be that Taylor is managing the business far more frugally than in the past and $$$$ do really matter.
Finally, my source disagrees with Zgoda that Stack is in front of Hoiberg. Taylor believes the fans will be far more receptive to Hoiberg as a break from the past. Plus, Fred will be cheap.
To me...
…that’s even worse. How much are we talking about with a front office? Less than a MLE/year? Less than a guy like Bassy? I can’t say it enough: you pay for good things…good things like the SAS model.
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also..
….it’s not like they’d trade down from the 1st or 2nd pick in the draft to save similar amounts of cash on similar unproven talent. My god, fill out the bottom 3 spots on the roster with D-Leaguers for a few years.
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PS:
Thanks for the take. I’ve heard the same thing about Hoiberg.
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Hmmmm . . .
Your story sounds both plausible, and logical, thereby denying me my outrage, at least temporarily.
SnP, you don’t have to make up the guest room for me after all, as I’m cancelling the trip to Mankato to egg Glen’s house. But keep the effigy of him ready, just in case.
You'll have to..
….have a good arm to egg that house. It sits waaaayyyyy back from us commoners. ;)
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Ouch
Pfund did a pretty good job in Miami, but as far as I can remember gave up when Riley took over all the important decisions. He also sports a win-loss record of 66-80 (.452) as a coach with the Lakers in case that is ever needed :)
Kahn seems to be the candidate recommended to Taylor by Stern, but I don’t know if that is truly the best option out there (or a better option than just letting an internal guy do it).
Congrats to Houston. Beat LA!
Going forward Blazers have 5 draft picks, and Rockets have none :)
I'm holding out..
….for Sam Hinkie at this point.
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Me too...
Rolling the dice on Hinkie seems like a vastly superior option to Kahn or even Pfund. I just can’t get excited about either of the other guys.
McHale as coach...
might be the deal breaker with any outside candidate. I noticed in an interview with Al where he said “when McHale leaves, thats when I get very, very angry.” Love threw his support McHales way on Rome the other day too.
I’m not feeling good about this…
by Minneapleseed on May 1, 2009 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Ya, but...
Remember when KG said he didn’t want to play for anyone but Flip? I think players respond to results, winning, and whatever will help them get another contract. In other words, there are a lot of short memories in professional sports.
Don't worry.
That’s the standard response from any player with a brain while a coach is on the way out. They would have also accepted, “We need to get it done on the floor” and "Coaches coach, and players play—it’s our responsibility to use what Coach tells us to win games.’
I wish someone would brainwash Taylor with this message...
I am the owner. The owner writes the checks. The owner does not meddle in personnel.
Maybe they could run that as a subliminal message at the places he frequents.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 1, 2009 7:53 PM CDT reply actions
This sucks...
I just read it’s because Lindsey didn’t think he’d have enough control or that Taylor was willing to spend the money to contend.
If we go with someone in-house, it’ll make us look terrible…
Is it possible...
That Lindsey’s taking a hard stance in his job search because he’s in line to replace Buford in S.A. and doesn’t have to take another job? I’m not saying he wouldn’t deserve decent money, but if he’s expecting to get paid like someone who’s been a GM before, that’s a hard stance.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 1, 2009 10:49 PM CDT reply actions
I look at it this way:
Someone from the league’s best franchise was willing to come to one of the league’s worst. The man has direct operational knowledge of SAS’s business and player-personnel structure. He could be asking for a clause in his contract that requires the team to provide him with weekly loads of fresh panda meat and I would still say give it to him. Unless he was asking for something crazy like getting Taylor to sign off on an attempt to bring in both Kobe and LeBron, there had better be a good explanation from PG when they end up with Hoiberg.
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SNP
What I think everyone is failing to see is the serious $$$$ loss the Twolves (and most of the NBA) have incurred the last few years. I am hearing that Taylor could have lost up to $25M just this year. Now it is one thing to have losses like that when your other businesses are generating great profits – helps to hold down the tax burden. But when all your businesses are down – a much more bitter pill to swallow.
This is by no means an apology for Taylor. Just a statement of where he seems to be at. Obviously, Talyor shares much of the blame for why the product is so less appealing to fans – I think all agree. But he is behaving far more like a stingy business man and far less like the fan who threw $$$$ at Garnett. The change has been very noticeable internally.
I hear ya...
…and I’m sure my brain agrees. That being said, if there were any part of the organization to put money into, it is this. They have definitely lost a ton of money. They lost it because of a terrible front office. They lost it because their front office is behind the curve in regards to other successful franchises. I get that there is a slow economy but this team is terrible because they blew a series of drafts from Ebi to Brewer. They then tried to put the blame on coaching.
On the other hand, I get what you are saying and where he is coming from. We have no idea as to exactly what Lindsey’s demands were or how much a change would have cost. Did he want a specific coach? Did he want a specific dollar amount for free agents? Did he want to upgrade the Target Center’s (relatively) poor player facilities? Did he want to subscribe to an expensive data service? I completely get that there is a cost/benefit calculation that needs to be made between this sort of approach and, say, Hoiberg. I just think that in the long run, this team is in need of what happened over at Winter Park after Red: a complete infrastructure overhaul. That’s going to be expensive but it will be worth it in the long run. Again, I wish I had some numbers to back this up but it’s just the hunch I get.
As someone who practically lives in Taylor’s back yard, I have friends and neighbors who have lost their jobs at Taylor Corp businesses. Glen does a ton in this community and that is much more important than the team. There is a greater perspective here than just basketball. That being said, the fan in me is still very disappointed that it would come to this after the needless excess and loyalty of the McHale era.
I, for one, am more worried at this point about bringing in anyone new that hasn’t been prepping for the off-season. In the Building a Winner post, I suggested that they keep Hoiberg, Stack, and Babcock because I didn’t think they could transition fast enough before the draft. My head still tells me that is the right course of action compared to a guy like Pfund. Now that I’ve had time to think about it, if it comes down between someone like Pfund or Kahn and Hoiberg/Stack, I’ll take the later in a heart beat. I just hope that those guys have a plan to change the infrastructure to something that is more consistent, repeatable, and longer lasting. I’m sure that if you know as much as you do about the goings on there, you know that there are certain key areas in which they are far, far, far behind the NBA curve. Player facilities and statistical operations being at or near the top.
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PS:
I still think fans deserve a good explanation as to why the #1 guy for the job turned them down.
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What Stinks...
Is that I had totally talked myself into the Jim Stack era, and would have been content if Taylor had just continued with Jim Stack but brought in an outsider as the coach.
I’m not too worried though, we can always interview Lindsey 14 years from now when the position is open again…ugh.
The problem is
it would be suicide for any team to do that – what GM/coach/etc would every interview with a team that did not maintain confidentiality.
So, it will be up to Lindsay to give an explanation – but don’t hold your breath waiting.
Hey...
…if this owner can call out the greatest player ever to play for him as a tanker, I don’t think it’s too far out of the realm of possibility. ;) You are 100% right though. We’re not going to find out. We’ll only hear positives about the new guy.
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Minority Opinion
I’m not saying I’m don’t think Lindsey could be a very good NBA GM. I wouldn’t go far enough to say he’s a surer thing than Fred Hoiberg. I really have no idea. It seems that we would be making unfair assumptions if we also think that every War Room or Scouting Department has uniform consensus regarding player evaluations. There are probably even general Basketball philosophies within NBA scouting departments.
After noting this recent NBA history has had teams hire GMs that maybe didn’t come from teams with the greatest previous track record (Internally and Externally)
Daryl Morey it should be noted got hired by the Rockets from a 33 Win Rocket team. Joe Dumars was an Internal Hire at a time the Pistons were sinking downward. Otis Smith took was an internal hire with the Magic when they didn’t have a lot going for him. I just wish to point out I wouldn’t let the current state of the Wolves do away with any notion that Fred could be a capable GM.
No one's a sure thing, of course.
I like Hoiberg… and if it’s going to be an internal hire, I’d take him over anyone else. I know I just want to see someone with an outside, fresh perspective. Not saying Hoiberg can’t provide us with a new direction, it just seems less likely.
I think we’re all getting a little crazy with how long this is taking. The waiting (damn you, Tom Petty) is the hardest part, after all.
by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on May 1, 2009 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Good points...
Though Morey was hired from the Celtics (not that they were great at the time). Also, I don’t consider Joe Dumars that good of a GM. But I do agree with the sentiment: personally, actions will speak the loudest. I’ve already decided on my fan incentive program where I go to a certain number of games based on how many moves they make that I like.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 2, 2009 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Once the initial bitterness...
…wears off, I think I’ll agree on the Hoiberg front. He could be decent. I think the difference with some of those other guys are that they had external training….and I agree with PSR that I don’t consider Dumars to be that good.
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This is the problem with fans
we are way too forgiving. Taylor needs to have his feet held to the fire but the local media and by the fans. I understand Just a Fan’s point (much appreciated) that Taylor is watching his money, it’s his right to do that. But he IS making a decision here: I am not willing to spend the money to seriously turn this team around. I am willing to try and pass off an inexpensive option as real change and hope that most fans are ignorant enough to buy it.
Granted, as others have pointed out, there are risks to hiring Lindsay. There is no guarantee that he turns the franchise around, just like there are no guarantees that Hoiberg runs like franchise any more into the ground. But, any business could say this. Gee, the gal with the great resume who happens to be more expensive, she could end up really failing at this job. And the guy with absolutely no experience and training, he could be a genius and he’s cheap. Let’s give him a chance. 99/100 times that’s a bad, bad, bad decision and you have to explain that horrible decision to your shareholders.
Taylor better not get out of this without being made to sweat a little a bit by the local media and the fans.
I'm voting with my wallet...
Because he’s not listening to anything else. What he’s not getting is that no MN team has a chance at being perennially successful in ticket sales because people in this state will stay away when a team isn’t winning or doing things that the fanbase dislikes. It’s happening with the Vikes and would’ve started to happen with the Wild if they hadn’t fired Risebrough. The Wild and the Twins are the most protected because of their stadium situations, but the Wolves don’t have the luxury of going half-assed.
With that said, their moves this summer will indicate as much to me as anything else. I’m willing to start buying tix again if they show the capability to make something good of their cap-clearing and pick-stockpiling efforts. To me, that means choosing a coach who can institute a system/style of play that works on all fronts, trading their expiring deals for a long-term starter (someone who could start for championship-contending teams), maximizing their draft assets so that they’re not selling picks or bringing in 5 rookies to camp next fall, and using the free-agent market to find rotation-caliber players (again, guys who could be in the rotation for a championship contender) who are having trouble finding jobs in this economy.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 2, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
agreed....
….I’ve said for a while now that they have me until next year’s trading deadline. If they don’t make improvements or get on the right track by then, I’m an OKC fan.
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I'm not willing to go that far...
But it’s not a problem to see others do it.
I just am going to stay away at a level proportional to his actions off the court and the coaching actions on it. I stayed away last year because he wouldn’t get rid of McHale completely and because of the Chalmers thing, and the KG trade made me commit to never go to any opponent games that he was playing in. I’m never going to buy a lot of merchandise because I think the Vikings fans who do look like they’re missing a chromosome, so the only ways to vote are not going to games and not subscribing to a cable plan that carries the stations that carry their games (which is very difficult because I don’t want to use my laptop for everything).
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 2, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
don't forget..
…that with league pass broadband, you are assured of seeing each and every single game of your favorite non-Wolves team…except the ones where they play the Wolves of course. ;)
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I'm technically blacked out from Blazer games
Because they show them in Seattle. How stupid is that?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
gotta love the cable companies
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cable companies
make me want to replace corporate monopolies with government monopolies. One dangerous idea for another.
by oblivionspocket on May 3, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
too bad the corporate monopolies...
…have been government sanctioned. It will really get fun in the next few years when your TV, internet, gaming, movies, and all other forms of entertainment are brought into your home via broadband. Once we’re down that road, and we’re down there with 1-2 viable providers in each market, it’s only a matter of weeks or months before they start charging per MB downloaded. There are a few companies that are doing volume trials right now. i don’t know if government monopolies on the services are the answer, but i do think that the government should own the infrastructure at this point in time. they could then license the use of it. either way, consumers are going to get stuck with the bill via increased fees or taxes. i just think the government will put more into infrastructure than will profit-motivated companies. part of the licensing could include a certain percentage going to building new/maintaining old infrastructure.
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What do we really know
about Fred Hoiberg?
I mean do we have any information on this guy? I really don’t mean to exaggerate here, but he might be a complete idiot. Do we have any idea what decisions he’s been responsible for? Would ANY OTHER TEAM in the league hire this guy as their front office leader? I say no way. Hopefully the wolves have private information about this guy beyond, he’s blond and from Iowa!
Man, what kind of news is this to wake up to .. guess I’m going straight to bed :(
Beater of the early Thabeet drum
Still hoping it might not be true, that Taylor will make un ultimate offer to change his mind … but I’m sucker for lost causes :(
Beater of the early Thabeet drum
by Wim (Belgium) on May 2, 2009 2:10 AM CDT up reply actions
I also
hold out for the slim chance that Taylor realizes that the franchise needs Lindsay and that he can compromise enough to that Lindsay agrees.
Once it started dragging out
I decided I wasn’t going to get too worked up about the GM choice. Assuming they hire someone with a decent track record (pfund) or an unproven guy from a quality organization, I’m fine with it. So much of this is luck anyway — look at the Bulls. They were a bust in 07-08, their GM was getting roasted, they hire a ridiculous choice for head coach, and then they get the #1 pick. They get a break when they get Salmons and Miller in a salary dump and all of a sudden they are the team of the future again. Nevermind that they are going to lose Gordon b/c they probably can’t pay him with the money tied up in Deng and Heinrich.
Of course, all bets are off on my opinion of Taylor and the Wolves if they go with an internal candidate or Kahn. We need someone credible and those two options aren’t credible at this point.
Success in the NBA =
massive amounts of luck combined with 51% or more competency from the GM.
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I would ask
How much the different OKC and the Wolves would look if you reverse luck in the 2007 Draft Lottery?
OKC vs. MN
I think the comparison with OKC is based on additional considerations beyond the current rosters.
I’m not the one to cite all the evidence but I think the conclusion reached by us folks excited about OKC
is that
1) they have a talented front office with a solid plan.
The conclusion that they have a talented front office is based partially on the fact that Presti is an SA alum, but also based on the great moves (not even considering Durant) that Presti has made as GM.
Granted the Wolves front office as somewhat emulated some of these these moves, like taking back salary for draft picks, etc. It’s just the accumulated f*ck ups over the past 13+ years that scream out for a big change. This is what OKC did, they swung for the fences as an organization by bringing in Presti. Keeping Hoiberg or Stack seems like a swinging for an opposite field single. It might be good baseball, but there’s little excitement and (given that no one’s on base) a limited chance to score a run. (OK, bad analogy).
There’s a lot of evidence that Lindsay would do a good job. This evidence includes his affiliation with SA and everything that implies (the success of Ferry, Pritchard, etc.). It also includes his experience with Houston and their success.
There’s much less evidence that Hoiberg will be effective.
Again, we are “guessing” will all of this evidence and there are no guarantees. But still, I’m a big fan of making educated guesses and that the more knowledge we have the more likely we guess correctly.
I’m also with s-n-p that although it’s important for Taylor to consider the costs of Lindsay (and all his proposed changes) $$$$ there are also monetary benefits to Lindsay. In the short term there would certainly be increased interest from the fans. Perhaps I’m overestimating this increased fan interest, but maybe Taylor is underestimating it. In the long run, there’s a vastly increased change of a winning and stable franchise and this market loves winners.
Glen may not think he can afford Lindsay, but can he afford three more sub 30 win seasons? Can he afford to turn this team into the Clippers?
There are also implications for free agents. Would FA be more likely to come here if we had Lindsay? Will they be scared off because Lindsay rejected the wolves because of a lack of commitment to winning?
Bottom line: Hopefully Taylor is not forgetting the costs of not hiring Lindsay. I’m hope he’s not underestimating those costs because I don’t want to lose basketball in MN and/or watch 3 or more additional seasons of completely awful basketball. There’s only so long you can be excited about the potential of this team.
To more specifically answer the question...
Let’s assume that the Thunder still trade Allen to Boston for their #5 and still trade for Kurt Thomas and 2 Phoenix #1s. Best-case scenario, they now have Joakim Noah instead of Durant and still have Jeff Green. They’re still in a good future position but are missing a great scorer — a good comparison would be the difference between having Chris Kaman instead of Carmelo on the Nuggets.
For the Wolves, everything would’ve depended on whether they kept KG, how well the team had done, and whether he had opted out. I think they would’ve kept him because he would’ve been excited to play with Durant, but that might’ve also meant keeping Davis and Blount (as well as Hassell and T-Hud). Foye’s injury would’ve probably hurt their chances of making the playoffs. It would’ve still came down to whether Taylor wanted to extend his contract and whether KG would’ve had the fortitude to opt out and actually leave. Even with Durant, the team would’ve still needed to decide whether to keep on the same mindset (sacrifice the future for the present) or restructure with the idea that once Durant became a superstar, this team would have more of its ducks in a row.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 2, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions
also please note
that this Lindsay story has absolutely no legs nationally. ESPN is not emphasizing it nor is the local media. Damn you Joe Mauer and your home runs!
Taylor is counting on this story having no legs. Most MN sports fan will have no idea about this story. They’ll just look up and say: Oh, Hoiberg’s in charge, great no more McHale. Thanks, Glen Taylor. [The less waves this story makes the more it makes sense for Taylor not to hire Lindsay.]
It’s like the Twins resigning Nick Punto and selling as some big move. F*ing depressing and pathetic.
by littleboxes on May 2, 2009 11:11 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Hopefully Taylor reads this blog...
…and realizes how unpopular this move is with an important educated part of his fan base. Otherwise, I fear that littleboxes is correct.
Of course, we’ll all be aware of the long-term costs of not hiring a talented GM with big upside when the Twolves fail to improve much over the next five or six years, no one is attending games, and the franchise ends up moving to Seattle. At that point, this short-term game of dollars and cents will look like chump change for Taylor.
I think....
…they’re walking a thin wire here. On one hand, they have set themselves up nicely after the KG trade and they are in a position where they could matter in a year or two…at least enough for getting in the playoffs. On the other hand, in order to get there, this off season has to be done very well and they could fubar it to a point where they really screw themselves and they lose both the casual fans and the die hards. I think there won’t be too many die hards that leave. I think that’s the cost/benefit calculation with not forking over a ton of money for the new GM. They’re not going to completely walk away from 2 years of blueprint talk for a ton of money. I’d be interested to know if Lindsey wanting to blow up the blueprint had anything to do with this. In fantasy GM land, my first move with this club would be to see what the market was for Foye. I can’t imagine that subject not being brought up.
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You're probably right...
…but I also think that if this re-building project continues to lag, many hard-core fans will desert and it will have an impact on the overall base that the team has (or doesn’t have). Already by the end of this past season, I was rarely tuning into games, whereas in the past I’d always watched every game live on League Pass. I simply wasn’t interested in watching the pathetic weave offense being initiated by Mike Miller and Rodney Carney. I didn’t want to watch Bobby Brown doing his best Shaddy impression. I didn’t want to see Love playing center and being matched up against a seven footer each night. I didn’t want to see McHale limping around the sidelines as a reminder of how we acquired these horrendous players in the first place. I had work to do, other interests, books to read, stuff like that. Given the shenanigans going on with the team, I no longer felt obligated to follow the them.
I’d been planning on getting excited about the team again this off-season because of the lottery, the draft, and the new front office. There were some signals that Taylor was going to right some wrongs and hire a guy like Lindsey. All of those things would’ve been signals to fans like me (and I assume a lot of others who read this blog) that we should come back and give the team another chance. I’m less inclined to get excited about this off-season if Jesus Jim or Iowa Fred is calling the shots (although I like to think Fred would’ve kept Mayo, which I still think would’ve been the best course of action ;). I’m less inclined to think we’re headed in the right direction if we don’t clean house and bring in a young, up-and-coming guy who is from a winning program and has a background in both stats and scouting. Those things should be pre-requisites for the job. Sam Hinkie would be a good candidate. Randy Pfund wouldn’t. The entire way that Taylor seems to be going about this transition is truly disturbing from a lot of angles and inspires no confidence that things are going to get better anytime soon. Maybe we should just throw up the white flag and see if Wittman is free for next season—I’m sure he’d coach for cheap.
I would also consider wanting to move Telfair
If the idea is to bring in Jennings. Or even Tyreke Evans.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I would only move Telfair in exchange for a genuine asset.
Like it or not, right now, Bassy is our best and only reliable point guard. He’s durable and signed to a very reasonable contract. Maybe he isn’t going to will us to a championship soon but it’s not he’s what’s holding us back from that championship.
If we draft a PG we expect to be the starter, I suspect we’d still want Telfair as the primary backup, as well as the cooler when the rookie starts to get out of control. I certainly wouldn’t want to get rid off Telfair as some kind of salary dump or hairbrained “addition-by-subtraction” concept.
by princelyfrank on May 3, 2009 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions
There's a lot to respond to here-
Several Points
1. The Great Oklahoma City Franchise that we’re supposedly to fear the Genius of Sam Presti has won 20 and 23 games the last two seasons (Minus the Injuries the Wolves Endured). In that time- he also hired a highly regard Assistant Coach from the Spurs that turned out to be a disaster in PJ Carlesimo. As far as thier Overall Roster it is worth noting again at similar ages to Durant/Westbrook- Garnett/Marbury won 40 games and were in the Western Conference playoffs. It should also be noted that their are plenty of holes still with this roster as Kevin Durant had a terrible plus/minus rate, Jeff Green probably isn’t a good enough rebounder at the 4 going forward, and Russell Westbrook has issues shooting and running and offense. They do have youth and Cap Space I’ll grant that- but their are still issues here going forward.
2. If Dennis Lindsay’s is so great- why did Houston hire Daryl Morey instead? Could it be something to do with Carroll Dawson’s record being mixed at best? Granted the Spurs
3. As far as bringing in a proven GM Candidate- by far the most proven GM in Franchise history was Trader Jack. In fact his track record is vastly superior to Dennis Lindsay’s
How did this work out for us?
4. As far as throwing up our hands and declaring the post KG rebuild a failure. This seems highly premature since Portland’s rebuild took 5 years. I will grant you that they switched GM’s during this time. We probably would have won around 30 games this season if not for injuries.
http://dberri.wordpress.com/2009/02/12/depressing-news-in-minnesota/
Considering where the roster was at the end of the 2006-2007 Season- they’ve made solid progress toward the goal of building a winner. Considering where the roster was at this time- where we be a realistic place to be right now?
5. Lastly- if OJ Mayo is so great why did Memphis only win 2 more games with no major injuries?
hmmmm
All worthwhile points, except #3. Trader Jack was a washed up drunk who came cheap by the time he walked through the Wolves front door. My impression is that everyone in the league knew that move was a joke.
My recollection is that the Morey move was more of the Houston owner looking to really move in a new direction, as opposed to him thinking Lindsay was not qualified. But sure, if Lindsay was God’s gift to man, Houston probably keeps him.
But, yes, OKC is not perfect, I just find more reasons to be hopeful about their future. Very little about the wolves makes me hopeful. And I agree, OJ Mayo isn’t that good.
And how did Portland rebuild, by trading Randy Foye for Brandon Roy. Ouch! Maybe that’s luck, maybe that’s smarts.
I’m glad you are here, being optimistic. I actually really need in order to remain a dedicated fan. As others have said, it’s becoming more difficult to sit and watch all the games, to look for signs of progress. This past season, for the first time I found myself forgetting about games, not paying attention, and turning them off mid way through. Every year since 1989 I’ve listened to games on radio if I had too, but not this year. It’s not just the bad front office, we had that before, but the franchise was young and I guess so was I. But now, after 20 years, to just have no or limited accountability and to have a chance to be viewed as more legitimate around the league, and to blow it! ugh.
This franchise is, rightly or wrongly, a joke to most national sportswriters and apparently a joke to others in quality organizations. how sad. It doesn’t have to be this way. We’ve got at least two professional teams in town that are highly respected in their leagues.
Why no hope for the Wolves?
I know the organization’s a joke that’s run by idiots, but still, our rookie this year turned out to be a one-of-a-kind stud, the kind of player people will be telling stories about decades from now. K-Love, as the best player we’ve drafted since KG, is reason enough to have at least a little hope.
by princelyfrank on May 3, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Good stuff..
…I’d say that you’re selling OKC short by a long way however. They went 7-7 in January, 3-9 in Feb, 7-8 in March, and 2-6 in April. They improved down the stretch with solid defense. They picked up Thabo and Krstic and their offense will continue to improve while their defense is already ahead of it. They have one of the dominant young players in the league, an amazing trio of perimeter defenders and a boat load of cap space.
OKC is one lotto ball away from being Portland squared (maybe cubed) in the next 2-3 years. God forbid they land Griffin.
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What would happen to the Wolves if they land that first overall pick?
Do they take Griffin?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
It’s been discussed somewhere else but we have so much draft chatter going wild that I can’t find it back again. I think the consensus was that it would involve a lot of trying to figure out who the nr2 team wants, they getting that guy and trying to force a trade.
I also believe there was a slight bias for Rubio over Griffin, the margin was very slight. The differencemaker is the better fit for Rubio and the fact we have less time to give at the front court.
Beater of the early Thabeet drum
by Wim (Belgium) on May 3, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
That's what I figured
Try to figure out a way to get rid of Madsen or Cardinal (or both), and trade down for a player like Evans. That’s surely one way to move forward.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Um, what?
They’re going to pass on getting Rubio or Griffin just to get rid of contracts that expire soon? And to add Evans, who many mocks have in the mid- to late-first round, and can’t shoot from the outside?
They better get an almost-All Star in return, as well.
Can't understand that either
You take Rubio if you can, and laugh all the way to the bank. It’s just one possibility was all I was really saying.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Or just take Griffin!
It’s not like three big men is too many. It’s just enough. Griffin would only take minutes from Cardinal and Smith.
by princelyfrank on May 3, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Nice work, JC--
There are those of us who keep thinking that there will be a nice linear progression of ten more wins every year for five years until the Wolves win every game, forgetting how many herky-jerky years almost every team goes through. Look at the much-discussed and sometimes-envied Trailblazers: they were just trounced in the playoffs by a flawed and short-handed Rockets team, an outcome that disappointed most of us when the Wolves did it how many ever times in a row, and not too long ago.
The OKC point is interesting...
I still think they’re in better shape going forward, but they’ve got some questions to answer: 1) Can Westbrook be the PG on a good team? 2) Can Green guard bigger PFs? 3) Will Krstic stay healthy? 4) Can Durant become more of a force in an area besides scoring? 5) Will Sefolosha play better than he did with the Bulls? They’re further ahead due to roster balance and athleticism, but it’s debatable to me whether Durant is any better than a healthy Jefferson.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 2, 2009 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions
More OKC
I would probably agree that Oklahoma City is in better shape going forward primarily due to the fact that their roster is younger. I’ll also say that if the Wolves end up with a big-time guard Wall or Rubio in the next 2 years things could look very different. I think the Jefferson/Durant comparsion has some merit in due to similar liabilities as ball-players.
Here’s a terrific article on Durant’s Defensive Shortcomings from Slam Online-
http://slamonline.com/online/nba/2009/03/is-kevin-durant-the-anti-battier/
by Jose Cordoba on May 2, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Take a look...
…at what a 20 year old Durant did to improve from a 19 year old rookie:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duranke01.html
Age Tm Lg G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS
19 SEA NBA 80 2768 15.8 .519 .451 2.8 10.9 6.9 12.0 1.4 1.9 12.9 28.1 100 110 0.4 2.0 2.4
20 OKC NBA 74 2885 20.8 .577 .510 3.0 16.4 9.6 13.5 1.7 1.4 12.2 28.3 111 109 5.3 2.8 8.1
KD is on the verge of something big….and he’s 20. If he figures out how to play closer to the rim and get to the line a bit more, we could be looking at a 6’10" player who shoots at or over 50% from 2, and at or over 40% from 3. It’s like Dirk but more so. He is a scary, scary player. He’s longer than Big Al and plays with the agility of a shooting guard. And he can shoot the hell out of the ball while having a solid handle.
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I don't think
there would be much debate in the Wolves office if, with the salaries not considered, OKC called Minnesota and offered to swap Durant for Jefferson even up.
At least, I HOPE there wouldn’t be much debate, but that assumes there’s even anyone there to pick up the phone.
My point
Was that their similar players in being great offensive players but lacking on the Defensive end of the floor. Durant has clear issues on the Defensive End that need to be recitified before he becomes an elite NBA player. His Plus/Minus has been terrible both years in the league as mentioned in the Slam Online article. This doesn’t change even if he scores 35 Points per game (Which is possible). I’ll put it this way he’s not close to the player Kevin Garnett was at 20. This isn’t to say their isn’t a lot of potential there. I’m only pointing out why the Great Kevin Durant needs to improve his game to truly be elite.
by Jose Cordoba on May 3, 2009 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
I understand the sentiment...
But still disagree. Obviously, if Durant turned into Nowitzki, that’s a different story. But he’s not there now. I’m not saying Jefferson is clearly a better player, but I also think some GMs would rather have him than Durant because interior scorers are more difficult to come by and because Durant’s an average to below-average rebounder/passer/defender. I like Durant but get the sense that some think it’s a slam dunk that he’s a better player than Jefferson right now; it’s not.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 3, 2009 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Okay, okay,
but in Durant’s favor, he’s—
1. Younger
2. Better size/length for the position
3. Jefferson’s probably an above-average rebounder, but a below average passer and defender (for the position)
No doubt, his potential is higher...
Because he’s 20. I’m not sure about Jefferson as a passer; he doesn’t pass much, but he turns the ball over less than anyone else on the team. His assist % was low but was higher than Love’s or Gomes’s. Durant’s assist % was higher but so was his turnover %. They had similar usage %s and similar defensive ratings. Also, Jefferson’s one of the top 10 rebounders in the league.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 4, 2009 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Is a Wolves representative in Berlin to scout the progress of Pekovic in person?
The Spurs are running around here in full strength: Buford, Lindsay, Popovich. Don’t be surprised if they come up with some vet like Siskausas next season. Raptors, Mavs and Kings also have their GMs in the house. Likely a few others as well.
"The playoffs now are my grind. My grind for a championship,'' Roy said. "Whatever needs to be done to get there I'm gonna do it.''
yeah..
….they’ve scouted him a ton and the Wolves’ Euro scout actually runs the Euro camp that comes up in a few weeks.
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they're probably over there...
….still trying to talk Splitter into giving it a go. If they get Splitter and sign a guy like Sheed they’re back in business for another 1 year run.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
Interesting comment in reference to Kahn
While we haven’t really discussed David Kahn as much, I thought it was interesting to see this on the bottom of Zgoda’s blog comments today. A user named “Steve” said…
I have followed the D-League for a while and have never heard anyone say anything positive about Kahn. Rumor had it he alienated a lot of local people in the markets he was in, think he was getting sued by investors in Texas. Not surprised he sold out or was forced out in all of them.
Shortly after a user named Maury Brown said this…
Interesting, take, Steve. I’ve never met you, or know of your interest in following the D-League, but I have been following this blog, and the comings and goings of the T’Wolves GM search with great interest. Let me say this.
I know David Kahn personally, and have known him for some time.
In my opnion, David Kahn saved the NBA D-League. There’s no two ways about it. He stepped in when nobody else would, at the behest of Commissioner David Stern, and was put in an impossible situation, running four teams in a league that had no visibility and awareness nationally.
Before Kahn stepped in, the league had failed in nine markets — let me repeat that — nine markets! Kahn has started teams in five markets and four of them are alive today. To use a baseball analogy, that’s an incredible batting percentage in minor league sports.
My understanding is that Kahn never missed a payroll during his time as an owner and even though David wouldn’t admit it, he had to fund some of these expenditures out of his own pocket. He worked tirelessly, 24/7.
He also has hired some incredible coaches. He hired Sam Vincent (who, within two years, was head coach of the Charlotte Bobcats), Michael Cooper, Jeff Ruland (now rumored to be a candidate in Sacramento), Quin Snyder, the late Dennis Johnson and Jay Humphries, among others. Those coaches will swear by him. One of his teams won the D-league championship and all of his teams were always in playoff contention.
When you are in minor league sports, there are all kinds of complications that you never deal with at the major league level — and that’s if you own one team. Kahn owned four. There may have been some bruised feelings along the way, but as I said at the start of this post, I know David Kahn personally and know that he did an incredible job under the most trying of circumstances — he saved the D-League, and his fellow owners at the D-League respected him for it.
Incidentally, if anyone remembers when Britt Robson broke the news on David Kahn, he linked to an interview from 2007 that David Kahn did. The person that conducted that interview was also named Maury Brown. You can read that interview at this link
I’ve said this in reference to Kahn and I’ll say it again, picking David Kahn seems more like a move to replace Glen Taylor as lead decision maker then it is a move to replace the Stack/Hoiberg/Babcock triumvirate. All of Kahn’s experiences seem more focused on business rather then talent evaluation. Honestly, I really would not be surprised to see Taylor pick Kahn, and then keep Hoiberg as a “Director of Player Personnel” with Kahn focusing on the business side and Hoiberg focusing on the basketball.
Maury Brown
Maury Brown might be a decent guy but it’s hard to tell. The bizofsports websites he runs make him seem like a bit of a self promoter. He also seems to have a personal interest in Kahn being hired by the Wolves because of his various responses to online criticism, even in obscure fan posts. I wouldn’t be surprised if he had something to say right here. He has also worked with Kahn before, so maybe he would be hired by Kahn if Kahn should get the Wolves’ GM job. Of course, that’s terribly speculative on my part. I’m just trying to be wary of hidden agendas. I can’t say if they’re present.
Anyway, here is a bio
http://businessofsportsnetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6&Itemid=15
by oblivionspocket on May 2, 2009 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Kahn pissing off a few investors isn’t necessarily a terrible sign though. Sometimes you have to ruffle a few feathers to get a job done. Sometimes people get mad at you for doing the right thing because the right thing is not in their best interest.
by oblivionspocket on May 2, 2009 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions
kinda like
Glen Taylor getting mad at Dennis Lindsey for telling him the truth about his organization. maybe















