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Make that three candidates to withdraw from the Minnesota Timberwolves' search for a new head of basketball operations.

Portland Trail Blazers assistant general manager Tom Penn on Monday took his name out of the running for the position after receiving a promotion from the Blazers.

Penn's pullout, on the eve of the NBA draft lottery, follows the withdrawals of initial top candidate Dennis Lindsey of the San Antonio Spurs and former Miami Heat general manager Randy Pfund.

Terrible, Awful, No Good news from ESPN

8 months ago Dr wyn 57 comments 0 recs  | 

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This is bad

Maybe now is the time to bring in Bill Simmons. At least you know he won’t turn it down.

Blogging at RidiculousUpside, where we converse with recently fired mascots.

by Scott Schroeder on May 18, 2009 1:13 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

OMG; how did this happen … We’re totally f*** … what are we going to do…

Beater of the early Thabeet drum ... but not so much of the late one

by Wim (Belgium) on May 18, 2009 1:18 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Well

The key is to not make a panic hire. Perhaps you can take a closer look at Sam Hinkie now that Houston’s out of the playoffs or wait for Lance Blanks to become free. This probably increases chances that Hoiberg is going to be running this team’s draft.

by Jose Cordoba on May 18, 2009 1:21 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Sam Hinkie is the only option I can get excited about right now.

by revprodeji on May 18, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I cant' say I'm shocked

Considering Paul Allen’s deep pockets along with Penn’s role with the team. If he can make similar money in Portland- this makes some seem.

by Jose Cordoba on May 18, 2009 1:24 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I just called the Timberwolves

I just called the Timberwolves to tell them that at least they are consistent. Not only are they incompetent in draft and trading, they are incompetent in hiring front office personnel. It is as if they are trying to piss off their few remaining fans.

by jgale on May 18, 2009 1:24 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

man

I actually can feel this punch in my gut right now.

by Pants_ on May 18, 2009 1:26 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Not surprising

It really sounded like a lateral move for Penn, since he’d have Hoiberg—instead of Pritchard—making the big decisions. We won’t get any quality candidates to join the GM by Committee idea of Taylor’s.

by Andy G on May 18, 2009 1:33 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

This is killing me. Should I apply?

by revprodeji on May 18, 2009 1:41 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Good God

This is ridiculous

by Blakeley on May 18, 2009 1:42 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Uggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh.

Just when the light at the end of the tunnel seemed within reach, our favorite FO comes in and yanks the carpet out from under us. I can’t say I’m surprised, nor do I want to be too doom and gloomish, but come on Glen, find a good candidate and offer him what he wants. This is your chance to actually redeem the franchise and reconnect with your fan base, and you’re going to screw it up.

by Xand1 on May 18, 2009 1:44 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

A conversation going on right now:

David Stern: Glen, it’s me, David Stern

Glen: What can I do for you?

Stern: Announce Kahn as your new GM

Glen: I’m not sure I want to do that—he doesn’t sound like my kind of guy

Stern: How would you like the second pick in tomorrow’s lottery drawing?

Glen: Deal.

by PoorDick on May 18, 2009 1:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Haha!

You guys sound like us Blazer fans did during the Jail Blazer era. Don’t worry, what goes around comes around.

"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."

by GonzoFan on May 18, 2009 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK as another Blazers fan ...

What exactly is that the wolves have done to “deserve” something “coming around?”

by nikolokolus on May 18, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You might be right.

But still, nothing (even futility) lasts forever. Jeez, nik, I was only trying to make ’em feel better.

"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."

by GonzoFan on May 18, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gotcha

I was just confused about the “what goes around comes around” comment. Usually people say that to people who have routinely racked up bad karma, as a way of saying “you’ll get yours in the end.”

by nikolokolus on May 18, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm a little deeper into the saying.

The planets and the patterns they travel are in circles for a reason. It’s all magnetic based and effects everything from sunsets to individual fate. Right now, they are paying for their dumb-dick deal that sent KG to Boston. Funny thing about that is, Boston will be paying off the same bad karma for years while paying off KG’s ridiculous contract. That deal was bad both ways.

"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."

by GonzoFan on May 18, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Except for the lone NBA championship...

…they added to their already crowded and more than respectable rafters.

"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."

by GonzoFan on May 18, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It wasn't like the Wolves had much of a choice

Sure, if they could have traded for Pierce, and then added Allen, and then survived the West, maybe the shoe would have been on the other foot. But with the team as it was, and KG wanting that gajillion-dollar extension, they had to take the best offer they could.

Boston overpaid for KG’s extension, but the chips fell and they got a title out of it. My guess is that even with hindsight, both teams would do the same deal again.

by PoorDick on May 18, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

precisely

I think Al Jefferson is one helluva consolation prize for having to trade KG. That was and still is a good trade.

by nikolokolus on May 18, 2009 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Wolves aren't paying for that deal...

Maybe a person could argue that they could’ve done it sooner, but that was a better move to make than extend him for what Boston did. They made some dumb moves before that, but I’d do that deal again in hindsight, and other fans would probably agree.

This has nothing to do with karma. There hasn’t been a single misstep by this franchise that hasn’t been unduly punished and probably more harshly than necessary.

by pagingstanleyroberts on May 18, 2009 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Karma doesn't have to be bad.

I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

by haildablazer on May 18, 2009 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've met Karma

and she’s usually been good to me.

by PoorDick on May 18, 2009 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

what goes around comes around

by Pants_ on May 18, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh yeah, she's great...

… as long as you keep slipping singles into her g-string.

by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on May 18, 2009 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually,

The Karma I know takes a buck and gives you three quarters in return.

She may not be classy, but she’s no b*tch, either.

by PoorDick on May 18, 2009 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why did he even bother....

to look outside of the country club? If you’re willing to go outside, then he of all people must know you have to pay a premium. This happens all of the time when a company goes outside of it’s own organization to find a new CEO. They have to pay a premium and often give the person far more control (e.g. chairman of the board duties in addition to CEO) than easing someone up from the inside. It appears now that both decision-making authority and budget was constrained by Glen. So with that being the case, why didn’t he just pick Stack or Hoiberg and get on with it. We’ve wasted so much time and the only thing gained is a more cynical fan base.

by Rascal Flatts on May 18, 2009 1:56 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

ouch,

sorry guys…

I am no longer able to participate in this discussion due to a moderators request...
by TrentEdwardsHoF2018

by Screen Name on May 18, 2009 1:58 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think

this says a lot about how the Twolves, in particular, and Minneapolis, in general, are regarded by the NBA caliber players/coaches/personnel. We are simply not an attractive destination and we are ALWAYS going to have to over pay.

Now the question is – will Glen over pay to do it? My answer – NO. We will get Hoiberg.

by Just A Fan on May 18, 2009 2:02 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

"we are ALWAYS going to have to over pay"

And I’m not sure Glen is even willing to do that. Think about what we believe he is telling prospective candidates:

1. You will work with Hoiberg on roster moves
2. You can’t clean house in the front office
3. Kevin McHale will decide if he wants to be the head coach or not—not you
4. I really don’t want to spend a whole lot of money to sign free agents or acquire quality veterans

With that in mind, I’m surprised the negotiations with optimal candidates got as far as they did.

by PoorDick on May 18, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can't win a bidding war...

…with an owner like Paul Allen. Overpaying or not. Still, he hasn’t gotten us a championship…yet.

"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."

by GonzoFan on May 18, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As a blazers fan ...

I actually do feel bad for T-Wolves fans. Penn wouldn’t necessarily have been the draft/talent evaluator, but his head for the CBA and finding loopholes in it have made Portland a very nimble team on draft day.

I think it’s pretty clear that Taylor’s insistence that McHale be given the choice of whether to remain coach or not is a major stumbling block for any prospective hire; GMs want to be able to make decisions about who is working for them (be that talent evaluators or their coach).

Tough break. If you guys weren’t in the same division/conference I’d be quietly rooting for you, since I’ve liked Al Jefferson for awhile and I like Kevin Love (local Portland kid).

by nikolokolus on May 18, 2009 2:11 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm sorry as well, Minny fans

I wish ya the best, and I just have one question—

Was Tom Penn expected to share basketball decisions with Hoiberg, and others? IS that a promotion, when he’s in a similar situation in Portland?

I’m sure everything will be fine and you guys will find a great young mind to lead the way (maybe you already have him, in guys like Hoiberg and others). If Penn was really expected to just be another voice in the committee, and not really having more responsiblity, it’s not surprising to hear he turned it down.

I’ve also read he is ambitious, so if he was given more of a say than he has now, maybe he’d think it over. I dunno— I don’t know the guy. I don’t know how good he has at player evaluations, which has always been reported as KP’s strength. All we know, is he knows the CBA, and how to find loopholes and remembers all the different rules and tricks one can use to help make deals. I dunno if anything more than vice-whatever (a helper to the lead guy) is best for someone with his strengths.

He’s not famous for the Houston’s GM type stuff… using advanced stats to uncover hidden gems and a player’s true value. He’s great at salary cap and under-used trickeries. Maybe he can do more, but it’s what he has done thus far and I’m not sure if he’s the answer as a head GM.

Portland was a much less attractive destination than Minny not too long ago, and you got a great pick coming up and young pieces to build with or use in a trade. Everything certainly isn’t perfect there, but SOMEONE will come in and turn things around as long as your owner is looking for that. He seems to be looking for a change, which is what was needed for us and for you guys.

Basically, losing out on Tom Penn isn’t the end of the world, as long as you got faith in your current executives player evaluation abilities now that McHale isn’t the head-GM. Tom Penn helps in other ways that are valuable, but having someone you can trust to make good player evaluations is more important.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on May 18, 2009 2:12 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

nice analysis, Mort!

I’m still glad Penn is in the Portland, but I don’t think the T. Wolves lost out on the next great GM. Though I hope Tom Penn proves me very wrong!

I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

by haildablazer on May 18, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Predictable

This has been a very predictable scenario.
The end result is we hire from within on the cheap.

And do we really want a guy willing to stick with Taylor’s blue print that is flawed?

Rob

by bigwolffan on May 18, 2009 2:15 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Time to clean house in Minny.

How much does the team cost anyway? There’s an old saying in corporate America: “The fish stinks from the head down.”

"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."

by GonzoFan on May 18, 2009 2:16 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I keep getting calls from the Wolves tix office...

That I don’t answer regarding buying tix for next year. Here’s an answer: maybe if the owner didn’t continue to figuratively slap the fans in the face year after year, I’d be more inclined to go to a few games.

As for Minneapolis not being an attractive destination, I agree in regards to the players because they don’t need to and therefore might not choose to spend the nice part of the year here. But the executives have to be there the entire year, and the twin cities area has a pretty good quality of life for that type of person. Wouldn’t a guy rather live here than in Milwaukee or Indianapolis or Detroit or Memphis or Salt Lake City?

by pagingstanleyroberts on May 18, 2009 2:22 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Minneapolis may have a decent quality of life

But let’s not pretend it does not have it’s drawbacks. I lived in the Twin Cities for 25 years and have sinced moved to Seattle . Although Minnesotan’s think their Summer’s are the good part of the year, in Seattle we get 70-85 degrees with little rain, no mosqiutos, mountains, the ocean, lots of lakes, etc. Furthermore, Neither Minneapolis or Saint Paul have the density to make the core city attractive to those who like night life.

I love Minnesota, I was born and raised there, but from the arctic winters, to the humid hot summers, it is not a great place to live with those without roots in the upper midwest.

Although I agree with you in regards to Milwaukee, Indy, Detroit, Memphis, it’s not like people are clamouring for those position either.

When you get down to the Timberwolves be the least popular of 4 major sports in a city with a large college program as well, the oversaturation of the sports market may become an issue to a guy who has to run the business side of things.

by Ebomb on May 18, 2009 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

True...

But those teams didn’t get rejected several times, either. Actually, their choices were to either hire someone with ties to the organization or area (Dumars, Bird) or pay someone who wants full authority (like John Hammond in Milwaukee) or bring in a guy with the kind of experience that isn’t necessarily good (Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Wallace!). Unfortunately, option #2 isn’t on the table for Taylor, but then again, it’s not like Hammond made an inspired choice as coach (hiring Scott Skiles = a couple of years of 1st/2nd round playoff exits followed by the inevitable tuning out of the players and dismissal).

by pagingstanleyroberts on May 18, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What was Penn promoted to?

Did he just get a new fancy title, or did he and Pritchard swap offices??

by Biff Cooper on May 18, 2009 3:10 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

VP of Bball Operations and a a raise

I’m guessing it’s mostly a nameplate promotion, but I’m sure they’ll try to find something for him to do to justify the increase in salary.

by nikolokolus on May 18, 2009 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't imagine their actual roles changing much...

…prolly just more money, new title, and KP is still in charge the same way he was before.

I mean, Tom Penn, the scouts, Nate, Paul Allen, they all have a say and try to convince each other. When making basketeering decisions, they are in the room together talking. I can’t see how Penn could get more involved, have MORE of a say than before. It’s still KP’s call (and Paul Allen’s, but he seems to trust what KP and the scouts say, so it’s really KP and the scouts).

Maybe Penn’s “new” position infringeds on Larry Miller’s turf more than KP’s? I dunno, really.

He’ll still be doing the same sort of thing, as far as fans are concerned— remembering loopholes, salary cap tomfooleries, different trade exceptions and contract shenanigans to use, and so on. The stuff that got us Rudy Fernandez and what not.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on May 18, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Start selling yourself on the idea of Kahn or Fred. We are a mediocre team. I think now we just decide if we are content with mediocre or if we jump ship.

by revprodeji on May 18, 2009 3:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Correction

The Wolves are currently about 20 wins away from “mediocre.”

by PoorDick on May 18, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That’s disappointing news. I was hoping the Wolves would hire Penn.

by NBR on May 18, 2009 3:35 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Hinkie is our only option left, but still it’s already too late because the lottery is TOMORROW…

Beater of the early Thabeet drum ... but not so much of the late one

by Wim (Belgium) on May 18, 2009 3:46 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Because the GM is involved in the lottery?

by WinTheLottery on May 18, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would be extremely disappointed if Taylor isn't on the phone with Hinkie...

… he seems to be the only good option left (although I still like Chris Mullin, but that’s a non-starter for Minnesota/Taylor). Still, even if Glen is calling Hinkie, I can’t imagine Hinkie accepting the job without some authority to clean house. Which isn’t going to happen. Which means we’re stuck with Hoiberg or Kahn. Which is very depressing for Wolves fans.

We should mutiny!

by Shogun on May 18, 2009 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because

The lottery is the point where you know where you’re gonna draft. Which is the point where you know what your base is for “are we trading up, are we trading down; do we trade for a veteran combined with a trade down or …..”

So it’s not about having a GM for the lottery .. it’s about having a GM at the time of the lottery .. sorry for the not being clear :)

Beater of the early Thabeet drum ... but not so much of the late one

by Wim (Belgium) on May 19, 2009 3:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Few Observations

1. All this doom and gloom is perhaps over the top. Mortimer makes some valid points as far as Penn’s background. This isn’t to say he couldn’t have been great at evaluating talent- but his strength was the CBA. While it sounds like he was quite good at this. I think someone like David Kahn could be equally well-versed in this area. I think Penn though sounds like somone that would have really structured and ran the Basketball operations well.

2. There are plenty of decent candidates still out their: Chris Grant, Sam Hinkie, and Lance Blanks. Although it seems like Taylor’s preference is to go the direction of a Business guy.

3. It’s unfair to expect a bidding war with Paul Allen when Glen lost $30 Million dollars this past season. If Penn doesn’t want to come here- “I’m not going to shed any tears”.

4. Something good can still happen to us- this week.

by Jose Cordoba on May 18, 2009 4:13 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I’ll reiterate my belief that so long as Taylor’s hiring a GM to predominantly act as a cap guy, and force the candidate to retain the rest of the team’s management structure, then he may as well find a bored lawyer/economist who’s also a sports fan. Try to find a Tom Penn before he’s Tom Penn.

If he wants a promising assistant GM, then Taylor’s probably got to be willing to let go of the Country Club. I know Penn was on board and all that, but in the end coming to Minny likely was a lateral move for him (for the most part), and therefore it was rather easy for the Blazers to just give him a raise to stay. If the Wolves offer included fullblown honest-to-pete GM priviledges, then even if the Blazers offered a raise, a new title, a better parking space, or whatever, it wouldn’t be enough to stop him from coming to Minnesota. Because if he’s as ambitious as our Blazer fan friends are saying, Penn would figure “why go back when I can be Minny’s Kevin Pritchard?”

And I don’t think it’s in Taylor’s DNA to let someone come in be the new sheriff. Not unless these increasing public rejections wake him up a bit as to the state of his team.

Maybe I’m wrong about this. We’ll see.

As for Penn specifically, I would’ve been on board but I wouldn’t have been giddy or anything. I liked his reputation for using his CBA knowledge to creatively construct trades, as I’m convinced the Wolves need to do some wheeling and dealing here. And working under Jerry West and Kevin Pritchard is a plus. But I wasn’t convinced he was the savior or anything. I’d be much more excited with Hinkie, I think.

by jianfu on May 18, 2009 4:25 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

"Try and find a Tom Penn before he's Tom Penn"

That’s what I suggested to my friend Norsktroll over at Blazers Edge… if you want Hoiberg to be the player evaluator captain, and want a cap guy to handle the Tom Penn crap, then get a Tom Penn cap whiz kid legal mind who is also a basketball lover while he’s still Joe Nobody (and desperate for a great chance like being a LEADER in a NBA front office).

There has to be SOMEONE like that working under someone. Hell, hire TWO guys who memorized the CBA and know the cap rules inside and out, and they can talk to each other all day. Ya know what? I’m going all in— hire THREE guys to do it, and let Hoiberg bounce stuff off of them and still make Hoiberg and the scouts in charge of who to pick, and who they wanna keep.

Or do what Portland did, where they made our Hoiberg (KP) the GM, but still had someone to handle the business crap (Larry Miller from Nike), and someone to handle the CBA stuff (Tom Penn). A CBA whiz should be subervient to a player evaluation type anyways, because that is what should come first— and the cap whizzes help make the player evaluation guy’s dreams come true.

I dunno how good Hoiberg is, but from afar it seems like MOST of you like him. If he handles player and talent evaluation, and someone else does the Tom Penn thing, that isn’t bad, is it?

I don’t think you’ll get a name brand, independent person if the stipulations for the job are true.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on May 18, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That would be a good solution

Although Penn is a bit more than a CBA kid, he also was a trained lawyer, a player agent and worked for the Grizzlies before. But yeah, someone like him or Hinkie should be findable. I just fear a guy like Kahn who is more a team president isn’t the ideal GM, and someone like Hoiberg would be better suited to work with/for another GM who handles the negotiation/contract and business side while looking to Hoiberg and the scouts for player advice.

by Norsktroll on May 18, 2009 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah...

…while I think that’s a creative take (and I linked to a similar one in another post), ultimately Penn’s resume outweighs any smart grad student with a cool paper on player value in the NBA. If pressed on it, I think Hoiberg will be a good player evaluator. Penn was a perfect compliment to that and I think the big problem with the Wolves is that their idea of the cost associated with hiring a guy who would do that part of the front office job while giving up some control is fantastically short of what it should be….as in hundreds of thousands of dollars off of where it should be.

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by Stop-n-Pop on May 18, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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