Penn Slapped
Seriously? What's next? Is Glen Taylor going to head on down to the Children's Hospital and sing songs to the sick tots about how Santa Claus isn't real or tell them that while on the way to the gig he backed over the Easter Bunny with his pickup? Perhaps he will simply hang out down on the corner in front of the Pantages theater offering up $100 bills to random strangers only to rip up the Benjamin in front of their faces in a fit of manic laughter. I'm not really sure what this damn team can do at this point to kick its fans in the face any harder. As you may have noticed by skimming down the page, we already had measured the drapes for Tom Penn's office. Here's a tidbit from my pre-written wrap-up post that will forever remain in the draft box:
Like it or not, this is Taylor's toy and the collaborative approach has worked fairly well since the KG trade. Penn is a hire that addresses a significant need while fitting into the operational culture (for better or worse) that Taylor prefers. Dennis Lindsey and Randy Pfund were simply out of his comfort zone. This is what it is and I will once again refer any disagreement to the fact that this hire effectively ends the Kevin McHale front office era. It's an outside hire from a winning organization on the cutting edge of modern NBA management. The guy is comfortable working in a collaborative setting. We can wish otherwise until the cows come home but ultimately, and with the factors of the current off season and owner's temperament taken into account, this is as good as it's going to get, and that, for fans who have had to watch the train wreck for far too long, is a good thing. This is as blown-up as it's going to get for the conservative business owner from Mankato. Hats off to Papa Glen for the solid move and here's hoping for the best moving forward.
We even had a reader send in an accompanying picture:
This was supposed to be it and they blew it. I don't give one red ass cent (is that even a saying?) about what Penn got from Paul Allen to stick around in Portland. Whatever it is, Taylor should have matched it and then some. Here was a candidate who a) was comfortable working in a collaborative setting, b) was willing to stomach Kevin McHale as coach, c) wasn't going to blow everything up, and d) addressed the long-standing and glaring front office need for creativity with the CBA...and they let him walk. The other guys walked because they couldn't have complete control. This guy walked because he was everything the team wanted (and needed) and Taylor wouldn't cut the check. As for the being outbid by Paul Allen nonsense, both Allen and Taylor are billionaires and we're talking about an annual salary that is likely well below $2 million in a multi-million dollar organization. We're talking about a franchise that had already been rebuffed twice, in public, by two previous candidates. You. Pay. The. Man.
Poor Dick put it very well in the comments section on the previous FanPost:
Think about what we believe he is telling prospective candidates:
1. You will work with Hoiberg on roster moves
2. You can’t clean house in the front office
3. Kevin McHale will decide if he wants to be the head coach or not—not you
4. I really don’t want to spend a whole lot of money to sign free agents or acquire quality veteransWith that in mind, I’m surprised the negotiations with optimal candidates got as far as they did.
Despite all of that nonsense, they had a talented guy who was willing to come aboard. Seriously. Despite asking for things which are, on their face, completely insane in terms of management and business operations, the guy was going to take the job and they didn't pay to keep him.
Now, I'm of two minds about this entire situation. On one hand, my brain is telling me that this was to be expected (from all the way back in January):
Hoopus Prediction:
Kevin McHale will remain at the head of the bench and Ron/Fred/Jim will man the front office with input from the head coach. The Pat Reusse conspiracy theory here is that as long as McHale is employed by this club he will have the last say on personnel matters. I think it is clear that those days are over. Papa Glen kicked McHale out of the front office and told him (explicitly or not) to coach or else. This year's draft is very important and bringing in a new GM would raise numerous schedule and logistical challenges. There is something to be said about continuity, even in down times.
Hoopus Prescription:
If the Wolves continue improving both their record and personnel development Kevin McHale should be retained and the front office trio should be allowed to operate throughout the draft and free agency provided that McHale's role is reduced to that of what Minnesota coaches have enjoyed in the past. If McHale is going to atone for what he did to Dwane Casey, then he should be treated like Mr. Casey when it comes to the duties of his old job. We have talked about bringing in a real GM quite a bit here at Hoopus but if pressed to make an actual change, the twin constraints of time and continuity make a practical change in this particular off-season (which just happens to be the most important off-season in team history; a make-or-break culmination of both the KG and Mayo trades) a tough proposition. Like it or not this is the crew that is going to see this thing through and that fact will not change. The time to make the change was at the firing of Witt. It didn't happen and this group, for better or worse, is what fans will have to deal with this off-season.
On the other hand, the way in which this search has unfolded has led me to believe that the team is being run by a ship full of boobs and that no matter how much wishful thinking I may have about their current assets, their future success is 100% dependent on random success, otherwise known as stupidity gone wild.
The really sad part about all of this is that this latest bit of nincompoopery transcends basketball boundaries. By being so absurd, it goes beyond notice in the sports pages and into the minds of people who either don't care about the team or are simply casual fans. The message is not ambiguous; it is a loud and clear signal that Glen Taylor cares more about Kevin McHale than he does about the fans of his team. He would rather deal with the baggage and up-is-down cracktastickness of a losing status quo than hand over control to a guy who would tell him with a memo or meeting what fans will with their wallets: that the future of this organization should not revolve around Kevin McHale and Fred Hoiberg.
Let's finish this thing up with a quick look at where the Wolves now find themselves. Tomorrow they will send Kevin Love to the Draft Lottery because they do not have someone in charge of Basketball Operations. You read that correctly: A "professional" basketball organization is only sending a player to the festivities because they don't have the necessary personnel to...well, do we even know if the Wolves will have a representative in the back room when the number combos are drawn? This team is 5 weeks away from the Draft. They don't have anyone running the ship. They are now being turned down for this position on a weekly basis. What on earth is going on over at 600 First Avenue? Here's hoping it has something to do with Sam Hinkie.
More later.
BTW: At this point, we here at Hoopus would like to one-up Bill Simmons' egotastic offer. We will run the team's personnel operation with a collective BasketWiki that will promote fan interest and interaction. We won't complain about McHale one bit. We will come on the cheap. We will do it for $40,000-50,000 and a 4% match on our 401k. Informed fans will get to vote on, scout, and opine on which players should come and go. You will be the first interactive franchise and you will get to keep your precious 86 Celtic. It's a win-win for everyone. Get-r-done.
BTBTW: While our Wiki offer is 1/2 done in jest, and while we are leaning towards this situation being the result of absolute boobery, this thing still could (theoretically) have a positive ending with someone like Hinkie or Lance Blanks taking the offer. This team needs someone with outside eyes from a winning organization who can deal with the CBA and manage the team's considerable assets. The problem with the "don't panic" approach is that this whole operation seems to be run by a bunch of drunken Keystone Cops. We all sort of know in the back of our heads where this thing ends up: With Hoiberg as GM and McHale as coach. The boobery comes from expecting that a new guy would be down with keeping that much absurdity around. When some poor schmo finally said yes, they didn't pay him enough to stick around. Hoiberg/McHcale 2009 here we come.
UPDATE: Jianfu makes an excellent point in the previous FanShot's comment section:
I’ll reiterate my belief that so long as Taylor’s hiring a GM to predominantly act as a cap guy, and force the candidate to retain the rest of the team’s management structure, then he may as well find a bored lawyer/economist who’s also a sports fan. Try to find a Tom Penn before he’s Tom Penn.
If he wants a promising assistant GM, then Taylor’s probably got to be willing to let go of the Country Club. I know Penn was on board and all that, but in the end coming to Minny likely was a lateral move for him (for the most part), and therefore it was rather easy for the Blazers to just give him a raise to stay. If the Wolves offer included fullblown honest-to-pete GM priviledges, then even if the Blazers offered a raise, a new title, a better parking space, or whatever, it wouldn’t be enough to stop him from coming to Minnesota. Because if he’s as ambitious as our Blazer fan friends are saying, Penn would figure “why go back when I can be Minny’s Kevin Pritchard?”
Taylor wants to have it both ways on this one. Ultimately, it will cost him and the fans....everyone but McHale.
UPDATE: Here's an edited version of a comment I left below the fold. I think it's the best way I can explain exactly what is wrong with the current GM search:
The Wolves are in the market for some sort of device that will get them from Point A to Point B. They want certain characteristics in this device and they are very specific about them. However, the problem is not that they have a good idea about what they want or that there may be some historical precedent for what they want; the problem is that they are in a car dealership trying to buy a bike. Either stop looking for a bike or go to a bike shop. Those are the options right now. They can stop pretending that the types of conditions being attached to this position do not substantially limit the field or they can change the types of conditions being attached to the position. That’s it. Until they do so, they will either get turned down (“You want to buy a what…here?) or a less-than-optimal candidate (”Yeah, sure…I’ll sell you that."). I completely get where Taylor is coming from on the collaborative approach. It’s actually worked pretty well since the KG trade and it is working in other places like Portland (where he was smartly looking). That’s to his credit. What is not to his credit is being unrealistic about the current market for this type of service. That’s where all the boobery comes into play. There is a price to be paid for this type of service and it costs a specific amount of responsibility and money.
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I said this in the previous thread, but even if Penn was willing to accept working with the Country Club largely intact (unlike Lindsey), it still probably cost them their man, because it made it easy for Portland to simply give him a raise and a new title. Why make a lateral move, then? Why function in largely the same capacity for a lessor franchise, outside of your comfort zone? With Portland’s new offer, why not just sit tight a little longer and wait for a real GM opening?
Had their job offer not come with it’s handcuffs; had it been a full-blown GM opening, then Penn probably doesn’t go back. Why would he when he could be Minnesota’s Kevin Pritchard?
I’m hoping Hinkie or Blanks can salvage this, but I don’t see it at this point. Unless these public rejections open Taylor’s eyes to the half-baked approach he’s taking with this hire, I’m afraid we’re either going to see an internal promotion (along with more of those suspicious comments of the team’s personnel intentions by the head coach) or a washed up exec desperate to get back in the game. Hope I’m wrong.
by jianfu on May 18, 2009 4:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wyn and I were discussing...
…about how we kind of feel that the whole Penn thing isn’t really the Wolves fault but that they’ve handled the overall hiring business so poorly that it overrides everything else.
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by Stop-n-Pop on May 18, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
PS:
I’m more worried about the washed up guys at this point. Pfund and Kahn are sharks and Pfund got out when he realized that no matter what happened, he could never have more of Taylor’s ear than McHale…thus he couldn’t elbow his way into where he wanted to be.
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by Stop-n-Pop on May 18, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're being unfair here
It’s not Glen Taylor’s fault that we were crowing about the hire; he has had the news from Target Center locked down tight. And I don’t blame him for Tom Penn, I would bet dollars to donuts that Penn was just angling for an internal promotion (promotions and raises don’t appear overnight, and that goes double for weekends. My bet is that Portland on the fence about whether to offer Penn the job, and so Penn leaked the news that he was leaning towards jumping ship).
As for hiring a new GM, I would rather the team wait until they get the right person, rather then moving aggressively now. As much as you’re mocking the appearance of the don’t panic mode of GM-searching, the panic move, right now, would be to give it to David Kahn. Thankfully, no one outside of Kahn and David Stern seem to want that. Other than Kahn, all the potential candidates have been guys from cutting edge, successful organizations (Dennis Lindsay, Tom Penn) or guys who have had recent front office success (Jerry Pfund, despite our suspicions as to his future success as a GM, qualifies). It seems to me that Taylor is targeting the right people, even if it hasn’t borne fruit. I’d rather see him get the right guy, the guy he wants, then to make a panic move. And if that means a season with Hoiberg as interim-GM, I’ll take that any day of the week over Kahn.
And to paraphrase Billy Beane: Whenever you think you have to do something, you’re fucked.
by McCleak on May 18, 2009 5:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I can't figure out...
….where to come down on this one. I’m torn between not blaming them (see above comment and paragraph from the never-to-be-published Penn celebration post) for this but on the other hand it is going so poorly, and the dysfunction is so obvious (what GM would take a job with some of these conditions?) that I can’t quite back away from the “they’re idiots” side of the equation. I agree that I do not want them to panic and I don’t want them to be forced into anything. I really think that they are low balling the realistic cost associated with the type of candidate they want to bring in. They don’t have to do it because their backs are up against the wall; they have to do it because it’s the cost of this type of transaction and they’re kidding themselves (and their fans) if they think otherwise. That part of it, I think, is fair to criticize. On the other hand, I completely get what you are saying about the team not being in control of the media cycle on this one. They can’t control the leaks and that hurts them and it’s probably not fair.
I also don’t think that Penn was engaging in some sort of Machiavellian maneuver for a higher contract in Portland. From stuff that Pritchard has said about wanting to spin off GMs to his past resume in places like Memphis, I think the guy was honest in his approach to the job. Ultimately, I think he’s level headed enough to realize that all of this is simply a cost/benefit calculation and that the amount of money he would get from the Wolves + the responsibilities he would and would not have was not a winning amount.
All of that being said, I completely agree that they can’t panic and make a crazy hire just to fill a spot. These positions shouldn’t be filled all that often and they should take as much time as needed to get the right guy. I just don’t think they have a clear idea how much the right guy is worth on an open market. He’s probably worth a lot more than what they’re giving in terms of salary and responsibility.
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by Stop-n-Pop on May 18, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's how I see it
if you blame them for the Penn situation, then you need to assume that they got scammed by Penn. Otherwise, it’s just a rich owner (Allen) doing what it takes to keep a person he believes to be valuable around.
And I just don’t see Penn thinking both jobs are equal. They may be equal today (and frankly, the pay in Portland could be better) but the upside potential is absolutely with the Wolves job. If he came in and was everything we hoped for, within 3 years he would absolutely be running the show by himself, if he wanted to. If you look at that, the fact that all the leaks on the news came from the Portland side of things, and the speed of the turn around from “new Wolves GM” to “Portland promotion” (which tells me he didn’t even bother trying to parlay it into a better offer from Taylor), I think he either has his heart set on staying in Portland (which doesn’t fit everyone’s description of him as ambitious) or he used Taylor to set himself up for something better down the line (which does). By the way, I’m don’t truly believe that Penn scammed Taylor, but if he did, the timeline of events would look almost identical to what we got.
As for Taylor, I don’t think his back is against the wall. Based on Lindsey and Penn, I think he’s approaching this 1 candidate at a time, which necessitates a slowness of movement. And as I said, he definitely seems to be leaning towards the stats/new school way of thinking, which is a very positive sign.
by McCleak on May 19, 2009 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree....
…with any of that. I think the problem here is that the Wolves have a misguided idea about what the going rate and responsibilities for an outside GM is in today’s NBA. That’s the heart of the matter. Too little money and too much shared responsibility. The blame here for Penn is not for him specifically; rather, for demanding conditions that will ensure them being left at the altar…repeatedly.
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by Stop-n-Pop on May 19, 2009 6:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You'll be fine without Penn...
…but the guy would easily be re-hired in Portland because of his work, and the more-money and new-position (I even believe it was semi-made up so he could be “promoted”, but what he does largely remains the same). I don’t think he was angling for a new job aside from moving up in the basketball world.
Your certainly correct that the fact this happened on a Sunday, as quickly as it did, showed that Portland was serious about keeping him. He’s not the guy that picked Roy or who plucked Rudy Fernandez late in the 1st round, but he’s the guy that used trade exceptions and sly salary moves to make it happen for cheap. He gets a lot of credit in Portland for what he does, and many Blazer fans were seriously bummed that he could be moving on already. I don’t think Portland was on the fence for keeping him around.
If he could be a real GM, not a GM in name only while working on a commitee, I’d be shocked if he didn’t take the offer. Being a real GM is a big deal, of course, even in less-than-ideal conditions. Maybe Portland underperforms next season, maybe the luster and hype fades from the team… that would seriously affect Penn’s ability to get a GM job elsewhere, if the general consensus is the front office causing the downfall with failed chances or bad choices (as a Blazer fan I don’t think this is likely, but if I was an employee like Penn is, it’s impossible to say what will happen. Maybe this was his best shot at getting a GM job).
If I was Penn, I would wait for a better situation (it really did just sound like a lateral move with a better job title), especially if the Wolves’ owner isn’t willing to budge from what he wants.
Maybe the bright side is, Taylor realizes he needs major change or they won’t get ANYONE worthy of the job.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on May 18, 2009 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the bright side is, Taylor realizes he needs major change or they won’t get ANYONE worthy of the job.
That’s the hope right now. The Wolves are an extremely isolated entity; maybe this whole process, brushing elbows with others from around the league, will act as an epiphany for Taylor.
Personally, with McHale asking for a 2-year minimum contact (after publicly complaining about the coaching lifestyle; sort of like holding the GM gig for over a decade despite openly despising agents, negotiations, the CBA, pretty much the entire modern NBA), I hope this could finally be where Taylor draws the line with McHale. Say no to a multi-year deal. Maybe McHale would finally just leave. I just don’t see this team moving forward until they get out of his shadow. Particularly if they appoint Hoiberg as the defacto GM.
by jianfu on May 18, 2009 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't like to swear a lot on this blog...
…and I want to begin by saying that McHale was one of my favorite players growing up, but who in the fuck does he think he is? Seriously. We’re not talking Red Auerbach or Hubie Brown here. It’s a guy who hasn’t coached a single full season in the NBA. That’s what the hold up is? This guy? He may be the second coming of (insert your favorite coach here) but nobody knows that and for this thing to be held up for a guy with this unproven of a coaching record (and this proven of a bitching record) is insane. Pardon my French with the f-bomb.
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by Stop-n-Pop on May 18, 2009 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like the aggression...
… especially since many of the problems stem from McHale. It’s pretty clear (at least I think it is) that McHale does not plan to step aside unless forced to. If he did, he would’ve done it by now. I fully expect him to be on the bench next year because Glen will not fire him. That means we won’t get a good GM (because a good GM would demand to be given autonomy to make decisions, including who the coach will be), which means that even when McHale is not the GM, he’s still hamstringing our decision-making structure. This is completely maddening, and both McHale and Taylor seem to be at fault in different ways. But I’m with you, SnP (we finally agree on something!)—McHale is really pissing me off.
by Shogun on May 18, 2009 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hooray for agreement!
;) It’s ridiculous at this point. The guy is a Hall of Famer and one of my childhood favorites but he doesn’t deserve this sort of deference as a frickin’ coach. Even if he’s good, he’s still a GD unknown.
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by Stop-n-Pop on May 18, 2009 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can understand
Proven commodities dictating terms- but unproven commodities I question their ability to dictate terms to employeers. In case you couldn’t tell I’m talking about the GM position.
If Taylor demands McHale be kept (McHale seems to have some promise as a Coach- this is a sentiment that’s been expressed by Britt, David Thorpe, and Bill Simmons) this can’t be worked around for a season or two. A two year deal is no sort of long-term commitment in the NBA. Thier is zero chance any one would commit to coach an NBA team without a 2 year commitment. I wish Marko had been signed for 2 years. It’s not like Kevin is some divisive figure in the organization.
As far as keeping Hoiberg, Stack, Babcock, Philo, Baby Clem, and Zarko. I can’t say how good or bad these people are but they’ve been around the game long-enough I doubt they’re totally devoid of insight from an scouting perspective.
You might not get to dictate every term possible- but at the same time (How many employeers grant individual managers this right). If someone is incapable of working within the current structure- it’s fair to question their leadership ability and fit for the job long-term.
I’m not trying to insult Dennis Lindsey or Tom Penn. I’m just not of the mindset- Glen needs to submit to every whim of Carroll Dawson’s Former Assistant.
by Jose Cordoba on May 18, 2009 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But...
…if you’re in the market for a widget you can’t pretend that you can buy a fancy one with a bunch of nothing. That’s what this all comes down to. There is a going rate for young, up-and-coming GMs and part of the price is that a certain amount of control and salary is handed over. On the other hand of this is a 24 win dysfunctional franchise. I’ll go back to the broad theme argument; fans see Glen Taylor favoring the status quo over legitimate change. They see guys the team targeted turning them down because of the status quo. Fair or not, that’s the theme moving forward and it’s a losing one. If this were an election, the Wolves are down by 30 points with no ground game. It’s terrible.
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by Stop-n-Pop on May 18, 2009 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Considering
how Taylor ended up, in the long run, getting burned by having McHale be a one man band, I can absolutely understand the reticence to the idea of giving one guy full authority over the team. Because at this point, failure on that level would probably shut down the team.
by McCleak on May 19, 2009 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In using a comparsion of a situation
When Bryan Colangelo took over the Raptors in 2006- he was under obligation to keep Sam Mitchell around. Colangelo had a vastly more proven track record at this time than anyone the Wolves are considering while Sam had no proven track record as a Coach.
by Jose Cordoba on May 19, 2009 6:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he lasted...
…how many games?
Here’s the best analogy I can come up with: The Wolves are in the market for some sort of device that will get them from Point A to Point B. They want certain characteristics in this device and they are very specific about them. However, the problem is not that they have a good idea of what they want or that there may be some historical precedent for what they want; the problem is that they are in a car dealership trying to buy a bike. Either stop looking for a car or go to a car dealership. Those are the options right now. They can stop pretending that the types of conditions being attached to this position do not limit the field substantially or they can change the types of conditions being attached to the position. That’s it. Until they do so, they will either get turned down (“You want to buy a what…here?) or a less-than-optimal candidate (”Yeah, sure…I’ll sell you that."). I completely get where Taylor is coming from on the collaborative approach. It’s actually worked pretty well since the trade and it works in other places like Portland where he was smartly looking. That’s to his credit. What is not to his credit is being realistic about the current market for this type of service. That’s where all the boobery comes into play. There is a price to be paid for this type of service and it costs responsibility and money.
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by Stop-n-Pop on May 19, 2009 7:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
whoops...
….what is not to his credit is being unrealistic about the current market.
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by Stop-n-Pop on May 19, 2009 7:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mitchell- lasted 2 plus years.
Which really isn’t the point. It is rather the idea that unproven candidates should be able to make absolute dictations when Bryan Colangelo couldn’t make such demands.
Also what is a realistic amount of power to be given in a collobrative approach? Being a final voice and arbititer along with the abilitity to work gradual change seems to be sufficient. Coming in with all sorts of house-cleaning demands seems to be the opposite of such an approach.
I can’t speak to the money involved. I can’t imagine that Penn’s agent got as far in the negotiations without having a pretty good idea of what they were offering.
by Jose Cordoba on May 19, 2009 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unproven or not...
….there is a going rate for up-and-coming GMs and that involves a certain amount of responsibility and money and 3 candidates have now said the Wolves aren’t offering enough. I have no idea what a realistic amount of power is. I agree that what you write is reasonable and, in general, acceptable. Whatever it is, 3 guys have now said no and it likely has to do with a combo of money and responsibility being insufficient.
Ultimately, none of us know what the demands are. On that front, it’s unfair to Taylor. However, with each new time being left at the altar one has to start questioning whether or not the bride has realistic expectations about her man instead of whether or not she’s being jerked around.
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by Stop-n-Pop on May 19, 2009 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to Penn's agent they had not yet reached the point of discussing McHale
See Zgoda’s latest blog post
by Norsktroll on May 18, 2009 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll buy that for 1/2 a penny
Let’s just say that Penn has a nice agent with other clients. Saw the post, heard otherwise…so has Jerry; read the comments.
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by Stop-n-Pop on May 18, 2009 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand taking time but a couple of items enter in here . . Why do we seem to be waiting until now to be interviewing candidates and why did PG say he’ll have this done in two weeks. That just makes him seem like a bigger dodo than we already think he is. I want the right person and I want him NOW. Yes, I am “impatient” but let us remember that we have been waiting since December to hire a new guy. To quote Larry " GIT-R-DONE"!!
Sometimes the obvious is hidden.
by frankenhoops on May 18, 2009 5:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
In totally unrelated news, Tom Penn was promoted to Trail Blazers Vice President of Basketball Operations today
by Norsktroll on May 18, 2009 5:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Thank you. Thank you for pointing that out. Awesome. Great. I feel so good now.
by biggity2bit on May 18, 2009 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to admit this is Pretty Funny
by Jose Cordoba on May 18, 2009 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The press release makes no mention of Penn almost jumping ship
Only Pritchard is quoted with “…I’m pleased that he will remain and continue to help us build this franchise”
by Norsktroll on May 18, 2009 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good God
I don’t see how we don’t blame Taylor for this disaster. There are 32 of these freaking jobs and he can’t find someone to take it? F-I-A-S-C-O.
How can he expect to hire the most qualified, progressive candidates when he makes these absurd demands on them in terms of the management of the franchise? I really don’t understand why he’s so freaking protective of McHale and Hoiberg. McHale especially has presided over a completely unsatisfactory ball club. And Fred might be a fine fellow, and might even be good at evaluating talent, but if he’s really worth the demands Taylor is making on GM candidates, then why isn’t he the new GM? (A terrible idea—they NEED new blood without ties to the current regime and roster who can evaluate dispassionately).
I mean, christ, WTF? There aren’t a lot of excuses anymore. This is a club with 4 straight losing seasons, in which they’ve not gotten better. They have had 3 different coaches in those years, and it’s not clear whether they have a coach now or not. I just don’t get it.
by Eric in Madison on May 18, 2009 6:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I feel bad for the sales staff
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by Stop-n-Pop on May 18, 2009 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, good point
Not much to hang your hat on when your trying to sell tickets for this crew. Even winning the lottery might not do much for sales—since there isn’t a really high profile top pick or two like Beasley or Rose. (I mean for the average fan),
by Eric in Madison on May 18, 2009 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps this is just me
I’m not sure that a guy the average fan hadn’t heard of till 2 days ago was really going to impact ticket sales much.
I will say this if they get Ricky- I might consider up my games attended from more than a quarter to around half.
by Jose Cordoba on May 18, 2009 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree with that...
…because it’s gotten to the point where it will bridge into the consciousness of the casual sports fan and non fan. It’s a running joke at this point and I’ve heard it on MPR, KFAN, AM1500, all over the place. Penn isn’t what would have driven ticket sales but getting left at the altar once again makes them look like a bunch of clowns. The ticket buying public is only going to see the broad themes of this ongoing drama and they are the most comical ones of all.
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by Stop-n-Pop on May 18, 2009 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it isn't WHO they were hiring
It’s just that they were hiring someone, it looked done, and he ditched ‘em. The average fan doesn’t care or know about Tom Penn, but they know they were ‘left at the altar’, like you say.
Morty
by Mortimer on May 18, 2009 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh
If you look at Dave Berri’s stuff, it’s pretty apparent the only thing that drives people to basketball games is wins. It wouldn’t matter if the Wolves were projecting an air of thinking 50 moves ahead of the competition, because if they don’t win butts won’t be in the seats.
by McCleak on May 19, 2009 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
again...
…i don’t disagree with that but i think it’s pretty hard to get there with a group of people running the ship in this fashion. if they have success, it will probably be by accident.
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by Stop-n-Pop on May 19, 2009 6:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I’m sure those people weren’t counting on the Penn bump in ticket sales, or maybe it was Pfund’s personality that they were going to sell. We are diehards who care about these decisions most likely too much, but the results tomorrow night at the draft lottery will change the sales staff’s fortunes more than a prospective GM. Fans see potential results with names they’ve heard of joining the team. A top 2 pick and correspondignly wins or the hope for wins, drives sales, Capologists and Talent evaluators unfortunately for the vast majority of the ticket buying public, do not.
by Ebomb on May 18, 2009 7:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What idiots.
Taylor’s conditions (if reported correctly) pretty much guarantee that the only person who will take this job will be one who is convinced that there is no way he will ever get another GM job somewhere else.
Everyone else will turn it down, because a GM job where you can’t make trades or fire the coach is not really a GM job. And it it’s not really a GM job (and with the added knowledge that you’ll probably be fired shortly to somehow make McHale look good) it’s really not an attractive job for anyone who doesn’t hate himself.
This is all reminds of the Onion’s headline the week after the election last November: “Black Man Given Worst Job in America”
by princelyfrank on May 18, 2009 7:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That's a really poor characterization of the situation
I don’t think there is a GM in any sport that has the power you’re imply. Everyone has to, at least, lay out the plan to their owner before making a trade. I’m sure other GMs have to run it be accounting (Grizzlies, Clippers) or by the coach (Golden State, Elgin Baylor’s last two years with the Clippers). Unlike those situations, the Wolves one seems to be about Taylor being badly burned by McHale, and not wanting to put all his eggs in one basket. If a new GM was successful, I’m sure his reward would be increased power (and probably a larger paycheck).
And your McHale comment is simply laughable. Taylor wants to give him one year to prove himself, no more. The idea of Taylor bringing in a sacrificial lamb to appease the gods of fandom for McHale’s sins reeks of the worse of Dan Bareirro’s lame-ass “Country Club” refrain.
by McCleak on May 19, 2009 12:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think at the very least you have to slam Taylor
For the flip flop on McHale. First he says he wants to keep him. Then he says the new GM will have say over who the coach is. Now he says he wants to leave it up to McHale. That part, at the very least, is a COMPLETE JOKE.
It’s almost if he was hoping that he could find a GM who would agree to keep McHale, so he could say it was the GM’s choice. As soon as all the candidates expressed interest in bringing in their own guy (which Taylor said they could do), he’s now changed back to keeping McHale.
That, to me, is the biggest factor that is turing this into a fiasco. GMs come in all the time and don’t totally clean house. In some instances, keeping someone like Hoiberg (at least through the draft) would be good for continuity. But to hire a GM and not give him control over the coach HAS to be part of the equation here. You just don’t see so many offers being turned down in other situations, so either a) McHale’s an issue, b) money’s an issue or c) Taylor is getting played and there really haven’t been that many offers, but people are using the media to play them.
by Sterno on May 18, 2009 7:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'll go back to what I wrote in a comment above...
…at this point they’ve developed several broad themes that every potential ticket buyer in this market knows about. This isn’t just about Penn; it’s about an ongoing culture that creates a specific and predictable line of action in everything they do. It’s unavoidable, increasingly tiresome, and, as you nicely put it, a complete joke.
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by Stop-n-Pop on May 18, 2009 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His words really make me wonder...
About his “honesty” during situations like the numerous comments about KG and Flip and so forth. Is he honest, or a guy who spouts opinions to keep the fan base somewhat interested? Either way, he ain’t winning over the diehards. He can’t jerk people around about McHale; smart people see right through that, and it’s a touchy enough subject that saying something new is worse than saying nothing.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 18, 2009 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Check his interviews with Britt Robson
He’s a guy who usually just speaks off the cuff. I’m willing to bet he’s feeling conflicted about McHale, and unsure as to whether give him a graceful exit with a farewell tour, or leave his fate to the decision of the new GM.
by McCleak on May 19, 2009 12:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If that's the case...
Then he makes himself look bad by going back and forth on the issue. If he just said, “I’m not sure,” that would be much better than what his approach is.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 20, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
On another note
if I’m Taylor, and I’m absolutely getting killed by the few people who still care about this team, I stop this hiding nonsense and make a public statement.
He’s gotta try to spin this situation as best he can—deny that offers were made, announce that they still have several active candidates, hell, lie to us. He’s gotta try to get out front of this spiraling situation as best he can.
by Eric in Madison on May 18, 2009 8:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I dunno
It would be nice to hear Taylor come out and talk about where he wants to take this organization. On the other hand, I imagine most of the guys he’s talking to would prefer their dealing not to be made public simply as a matter of course.
by McCleak on May 19, 2009 12:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just wanted to add as a Blazer fan
we sent Brandon Roy to the draft lottery in 2008 and came away with the #1 pick despite amazing odds.
just saying. have hope. love can do it.
:)
by GreatOden'sRaven on May 18, 2009 8:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The following teams will be sending (ex) players this year (OKC sent Durant last year. Well, got them Westbrook)
- Kings: Chris Webber (sent some season ticket holder last year. That defied the luck goddess, she had already used all her luck)
- Wolves: Kevin Love
- Knicks: Allan Houston (pretty ironic. Didn’t they have to create new cap rules to get rid of his ginormous contract in the end?)
- Bobcats: D.J. Augustin
- Pacers: The Real Bird
by Norsktroll on May 18, 2009 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the Update
and the bike car dealership example. I completely agree. If Taylor wants to go this route, he should make Hoiberg ot Stack GM and then go find a CBA and stats expert to join the team and work under them.
I nominate S&P for the position. He’s got the instincts. Give him full-time pay and let him focus fully on the task and Portland/Penn won’t have anything on the Twolves.
by Andy B on May 19, 2009 9:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
My first order of business...
…will be to fire myself and give Lindsey or Hinkie whatever they want. ;)
I do think that Taylor should come out and say what he is looking for and that they are in the market for a cba guy to work with Hoiberg. They feel that Hoiberg has the goods on the player eval front and they need to have a guy who can handle contracts, the cba, the stats operation, etc. I think people would respect that and be more understanding. That’s not a dysfunctional situation or even something that’s less than desirable. They just are going to have a different type of candidate. The guys they are looking at are full control up and comers.
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by Stop-n-Pop on May 19, 2009 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
An outsider opinion
I think Papa Glen is an idiot. Not because he’s the Wolves owner, or because he’s made mistakes. An idiot thinks he can’t pay talent for what it’s really worth within the current market.
While the Kings situation in Sacramento is probably pretty tenuous due to the arena situation, it is guaranteed that their team won’t have problems figuring out what talent they want in the draft. Geoff Petrie is the top dog, and to that end, he usually picks the player he wants.
Papa Glen can do anything he wants with his team; hell it’s his right. But, he wants up & coming NBA talent to work within his current power structure and live with his ultimate decisions (like keeping McHale).
What I really don’t understand is how the Wolves expect to keep their own standing within the community if fans don’t believe the franchise has any idea of what it’s doing. Hell, even Kevin Garnett was mad that Glen Taylor chose Kevin McHale over him. (I won’t cry for KG.)
I’ve been following this search because it’s intriguing to me to see if one of the worst run franchises in all of sports could actually change it’s own insider culture by changing how it did things from the very top. Apparently it’s not the case. Glen Taylor is an idiot because he’s pissing on the Wolves for no apparent reason because he can’t bring himself to change anybody at the top. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
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by pookeyguru on May 19, 2009 3:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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