Notes from Kahn's Press Conference
by wyn on May 23, 2009 2:31 AM CDT
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PrintApologies for the delay, I spent every post-press conference moment of today traveling to Temecula, CA. After reading through the excellent comments in the initial reaction thread, I think you all saw and heard a lot of the same things I did. Hopefully, though, this brief, jet-lagged run-down can pull together some main points and a few specifics for us to ruminate over further.
Glen Taylor's opening statements outlined the hiring process and then moved to the rationale behind hiring David Kahn. He talked a bit about using the experience of hiring executives for his other businesses in this process, and even mentioned the use of an executive hiring firm. The candidate criteria Taylor highlighted were experience (specifically someone who'd served in the NBA as a GM or Assistant GM) and a successful background that included a strong mentor. Pretty standard stuff.
The Wolves contacted executives and coaches around the league to put together their initial candidate list and Taylor said he spoke with Commissioner Stern only as a reference for Kahn later in the process. I was surprised Taylor made it a point to mention that in the course of requesting permission from other teams to speak to potential candidates he received a delayed response from some of them. Taylor said it with a chuckle, but I can't imagine it will benefit his relationships with those owners. On the other hand, it seems a relatively insignificant statement in the grand scheme of things.
I found Kahn's statement interesting in a number of ways. I was definitely an opponent to hiring Kahn, and the situation he left in Fort Worth is still a big concern to me that wasn't addressed at all at the press conference. But he's on board now and hearing him today made me willing withhold full judgement until we see what he does in this pivotal offseason (feels like we've had a lot of those in the last few years, doesn't it?). Kahn's window to win over fans is extremely small, but he specifically acknowledged that fact today and repeatedly emphasized his desire to turn this team into a playoff team quickly with the obvious goal of being a championship team.
He was clearly on a mission to project confidence, authority (more than once emphasizing that whether McHale stays or goes is his call), knowledge, and his dedication to continually working toward a championship. He made no promises about keeping front office personnel, but mentioned multiple times that he will first listen to those who have been here before imposing his own vision due largely to the proximity of the draft. He also displayed a good sense of humor, even about not being the first choice (something Taylor coldly denied).
Kahn's experience as a journalist was very apparent today, especially alongside Taylor's defensive responses, as he had a clear message that he delivered comfortably.
I thought he responded very well to the concerns about his absence from the NBA, including two points: 1) his work in the D-League included a good deal of interaction with NBA front offices, including the sale of Tulsa's franchise to the Oklahoma City Thunder, and 2) he talked a lot about preparing to re-enter an NBA front office long before the Timberwolves' search was underway. He talked about the Wolves' season and included a few of his thoughts on a specific stretch of games. Either he did some very speedy and thorough research in the last few weeks, or he really did keep tabs on the Wolves' season.
I'm still not willing to overlook the issues Kahn left in Fort Worth, and that leaves me with a good deal of skepticism about how he will perform in his new position with the Wolves. But Kahn knew exactly what messages needed to be sent today and how to send them. He was confident, but open to criticism and other ideas, has a vision (although we have yet to see if he's got a plan), but recognized he'll make mistakes. WIthout having made any personnel moves yet, I'm actually more optimistic about having Kahn in charge today than I was yesterday. But I know that I'm only one of MANY Wolves fans who will not cut the new front office leader any slack if the team reverts to McHale-style team-building by plugging holes on a sinking ship. It's time for someone to refurbish the whole damn thing.
I'd be remiss if I didn't thank the team for inviting me. While the staff I've spoken with recognize that they've a long way to go in using new media to better engage fans, those staff members are working to figure out how to win back fans that feel beaten down after a dismal recent past. I hope for your and my own sake that they're up to the task.
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Given the short window
Kahn would appear to have to win us all over (and I gather this is going to be impossible for some of us) I wonder if there is a danger that in trying to make his mark he overeaches.
And in this regard I am specifically worried about trading for a big contract for a so-so guy who fills a position of need or worse still getting involved in some FA silliness and offering a one season wonder the full MLE.
well put...
….i’m torn between the trade-for-a-big-name-player (or two) approach and the stockpile-as-much-young-talent-as-possible approach that would pay off a few years down the road and with a bit of luck. i don’t want to see a “splash” move just for the sake of being decisive and to show the fans that they are willing to make a move. it has to be long-term. i think at this point, my preference is to see them take a 1/2 way approach: target 2 players in this draft and move assets to get them while moving the expiring contracts and either pekovic or the utah pick for an established player. this could even leave them with enough to sign an mle and still be in good shape in 2010. unless they throw everything at someone like paul, parker, d-will, or dirk, I think the 1/2 way approach might work with guys like hinrich, hamilton, and prince. i do think the most interesting free agent option this off season is hedo. he may ask for more years than he has left but i think the guy has at least 3 good years left and if they could trade for the 2 guys they want, move for hinrich and sign hedo, i think that’s about the best off season anyone could hope for short of a paul, parker, d-will, dirk coup. hedo would require a sign and trade but let’s imagine that they draft harden, curry, or derozan; trade for hinrich; and pull a sign and trade for hedo. would anyone be excited about that team? i think you could get it done while keeping love and jefferson. the hedo sign and trade would probably be the trickiest part.
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I'm on board
I’m ready for the David Kahn era…but I still wake up in cold sweats imagining a Brian Cardinal for Jamal Tinsley swap.
The Barreiro interview yesterday touched on Fort Worth
Basically Kahn didn’t respond in any detail to the Fort Worth situation, and we wouldn’t have expected him to be able to do that even if he’d wanted to.
His response amounted to “The D-League was a much more challenging environment than anyone can really understand from outside.” He mentioned meeting payroll out of his own pocket.
Kahn didn't respond in any detail to any of Barreiro's questions.
The man knows how to work with the media. You don’t answer their questions, you answer your own questions but make it seem like you’re answering theirs.
by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on May 23, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions
the sad part...
…is that it works.
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Two areas I didn't hear from Kahn, but that might be in the offing
The press conference and the Wolves’ other public statements didn’t quite touch on two areas I’m curious about:
- Might Kahn’s experience in the developmental league lead to the Wolves using that setting to develop players more effectively? Actually Glen talked a bit about the D-league in his preamble, but one could take that as a sort of justification for Kahn; he didn’t say in so many words that the Wolves might see Sioux Falls a little differently now.
- Is Kahn a believer in the “quantitative analysis,” which is to say Bill James-ish numbers grinding in talent evaluation? The Wolves’ page on the hire, from which we get our links to the recorded press conference, seems to have been written by a low-level writer and then hardly edited at all. The text there, though, mentions a few other GM types with “diverse” backgrounds. The names are Theo Epstein, Billy Beane, and Daryl Morey. To the casual fan those aren’t just “non-traditional general managers,” which is where the Web page takes things. They’re also GMs who, all of them, are heavily invested in using sophisticated statistical measures. Does the fact that the Wolves’ page even mentions “Moneyball” mean they have a clue about that? Or is our talent evaluation still “The talent people watch a lot of tape,” and that’s it?
Those two areas, or something very like them, would go a long way to convince me that “We will not be out-thought” is more than a rhetorical promise. Either of them would involve a modest investment by Glen in terms of money in order to realize a potential big return in terms of competitive advantage. Those are the sorts of things I want to hear from Kahn.
The guy can be as eloquent as he wants in press conferences. I’d give him a par for yesterday’s. I want to see the organization demonstrate that it’s not in the dark ages, relying on player personnel people in the scriptorium when other teams seem to have figured out the printing press…. That will mean Kahn and Glen following through on the necessary organizational changes.
I’m hoping it means that the Wolves buy a team and set it up the way other teams have. His other statements about stats were vague enough that, well, I’ll believe it when it happens.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 23, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
That'd be nice, but in today's economy is Glen going to go that?
Definitely a longer-term idea. Given Kahn’s background in the D-league and the current CBA, I’d settle for somehow addressing the possibility of a true® “farm system” approach at the moment.
Some of the smarter teams are already going that way — the Spurs, for example.
Even using their D-League affiliation for more than rehab would be a step forward. For example, if they keep three of this year’s picks on the roster, there’s no reason not to send at least one of them down.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 23, 2009 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Corey Brewer, case in point
“Corey — go work on your shot where you can see the ball more.” Ta-dum, the D-league is now a real developmental tool.
Even when players could help the NBA roster, there are definitely times when they’d become better players if they had that lower-level development time. Kevin Love could round out his offensive game, and so on. This is not that hard a decision to make.
Unfortunately Brewer’s going to be in his third year, and the CBA specifically makes that sort of thing possible only during the first couple of years I think. That’s why I really don’t see the “farm system” model happening until this next bargaining showdown.
It really should happen, though. After a half-generation of drafts in which kids from high school got drafted by the handful, the league still has no real way to develop them except by shelving them for a season or two and hoping they learn in practice. There’s a better way to do the whole thing.
My hope is that a player who is rehabbing can go to the affiliated team
And, that a young player can go down at any time for any reason the club deems worthy. We will see more of this in the next CBA (expires in Summer 2011).
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No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I'd love to see the charade...
…..ended and the NBA coordinate with the NCAA so that they can keep the feeder system they already have.
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Kahn did say he believes that Glenn wants to spend if it’s worth it.
He said at the start that one of the reasons he wanted to join is because he thaught Glenn wants to spend.
Then later he said that over spending is probably not a good idea because it’s not the most spending teams that are the ones winning championships …. which, in my free translation …. means he thinks Glenn wants to spend but not to a point where it’s not usefull anymore.
Beater of the early Thabeet drum ... but not so much of the late one
by Wim (Belgium) on May 23, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I can't say that I feel any better about this than I did before the press conference
which, let’s face it, is a dog-and-pony show. Taylor still sounded like a grumpy guy who doesn’t understand why he gets dinged, even though his team hasn’t been in the playoffs in 5 years.
Kahn sounded OK, but what would you expect? One thing I thought he got absolutely wrong was saying that there was no time for staffing decisions prior to the draft. There are 2 issues with that, it seems to me:
1. So he’s going to rely on the same clowns who got the Wolves into this mess? Great. That might be a little unfair-they’ve done some OK things in the last couple of years; still, it doesn’t inspire a ton of confidence. Plus, I’m not sure you can reasonably expect these guys to do their best work when they need to be looking for jobs.
2. Feral touched on this above, but it seems to me that the first order of business should be staffing—specifically he should be hiring someone who can make the best use of the available advanced statistics for the draft and other personnel decisions. I don’t want them going through this off-season without having the best available information, which I think will be the case if they stick with the current crew.
Of course I’m going to “give the guy a chance”-I don’t really have any choice, do I? But I’m not confident about the David Kahn era.
by Eric in Madison on May 23, 2009 8:57 AM CDT reply actions
I don’t agree with them not looking for a coach (short of talking to McHale) because that guy needs input on their moves. But other than that, I have a feeling that these guys will be professional enough to do their jobs and might be motivated to work harder in order to be considered for jobs after July 1. But I’m also in the camp who considers the work of the past two offseasons to be better than OK (I’d argue they’ve done a better job in those two offseasons than 2/3 of the other teams). If they’d made this decision three weeks ago, then yes, I’d say it’d be time to bring in the new staff.
But I do think Kahn has a sense which high-contract guys to go after and which to stay away from after hearing him clarify what he means by a superstar and after hearing him on Barreiro talk about taking a chance on risky players (he said more than 1 on a team is probably not a good idea). He also, unprompted, spoke of the need to do more scouting of NBA players for the sake of adding them in trades or free agency, which makes me think they’ll do their homework on those areas.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 23, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions
"Risky" players, and overpriced non-stars
Proof’s always in the puddin’, and one does blanche somewhat thinking of Pacers examples like Tinsley, Artest, Croshere, and Jalen Rose. Those all happened while Kahn was doing whatever he did for that franchise, didn’t they? In terms of stability and salary, they’re not wonderful exemplars of an organization that’s purring perfectly along taking carefully-managed risks. I give Kahn credit, actually, for saying somewhere that Tinsley was one of his more interesting acquisitions — that’s not a safe BS answer, and I’d like to hear his real reasons — but let’s just say I’m hoping he’s learned some lessons from that Pacers tenure too.
On balance I can live with the last couple of years here, though I’m still firmly in the “not really excusable no matter how you re-sift the timeline” camp on the Chalmers pick. That’s exactly the sort of lapse I think Kahn meant when we talked about not being prepared; he was saying he didn’t want that on his watch, and I don’t blame him.
I’m fuzzy on the timeline of some of those moves because Larry Bird took over the front office in ‘03. At the most, they had two guys like that on the team at the same time, since Rose and Artest were traded for each other (what was wrong with Croshere?). The trade of Harrington for Captain Jack happened after Bird took over. In general, I’d split the blame of what’s happened since the Artest melee between Walsh/Kahn and Bird/David Morway.
To be fair, Kahn was also there during the following moves (I’m not implying he was the prime mover in this because Walsh was still the head guy): drafting Travis Best, Hoiberg, Erick Dampier, Austin Croshere, Al Harrington, Primoz Brezec, Fred Jones, David Harrison, and James Jones; traded Mark Jackson for Jalen Rose (later getting Jackson back), Antonio Davis for Jonathan Bender, Dampier for Chris Mullin, Vonteego Cummings for Jeff Foster, Dale Davis for Jermaine O’Neal, Rose and Best for Artest and Brad Miller (which would’ve been much better if Miller didn’t force a sign-and-trade to Sacramento); and trading for Tinsley. In the years he was there, they made the playoffs in every year but one while having to replace a significant part of their core halfway through (Rik Smits retired, Mullin and Jackson got old, Rose proved he couldn’t handle being the top guy on a good team). During that run, they won 10 playoff series, made the conference finals 4 times and the finals once (they probably would’ve had even more success if they’d just hired Rick Carlisle instead of Isiah Thomas).
I’m not going to say he deserves credit for any of these moves, but if he can’t be blamed for the bad moves and then not credited with the good moves. The same goes for the current Wolves FO. As for Chalmers, I think it was a bad move but am reserving final judgment until we know what they got out of the two picks they received for him. I think Chalmers is a good role player, but role players can be found in the mid-second round, no matter how weak the draft.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 23, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions
What I mean by role-player is a guy who’s in the rotation but not a potential star.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 23, 2009 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Those were half "risky" and half "overpriced"
The few examples I tossed out there were just meant to remind us that Indiana, while it was looking like a legitimate championship contender at the moment Kahn left, had its share of both head cases and overblown deals on the roster. Croshere has to be considered a bad contract, and Jalen Rose got shovels full of money for them despite, as you say, being worth less. It wasn’t just Artest in the stands at the Palace, either.
That isn’t scathing criticism of Kahn or Donnie Walsh. Just a nod in the direction of how that team imploded. What Kahn said the other day doesn’t quite dovetail with that history, is all.
I understand that
But they had a long run of success before that implosion. This wasn’t a situation like the Wolves in 03-04; they made the conference finals 4 times as often during the KG era as the Wolves did, despite never having a player as good as him. They took some chances, and they didn’t work out, but their primary success occurred before they ever traded for Artest. Also, Bird and David Morway made the decisions starting in 2003, which would include trading for Stephen Jackson.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 25, 2009 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Totally agreed about Glen.
His entire preamble was about his frustration with the press. Hey, Glen, you have a chance to shape these stories, and instead you’re exacerbating the problems you complain about. Get out ahead of it, man.
That was worrisome for a couple of reasons
1. It shows how out of touch he is with the reality of the situation
2. The attitude of “unfair treatment” could enhance the justification in his mind if he gets an offer to sell/move the team.
It’s Minnesota passive/aggressive. The fans aren’t going to boo Santa Claus, but if the team doesn’t win, they’ll just head up to the cabin. So the media step in to get attention by making up rumors (Sid and Shooter), griping about every move by every pro team (Souhan and Reusse), or just reprinting other people’s takes to get a piece in on deadline (Sansevere).
I think someone needs to hold a blogger ethics panel for Shooter and Sid
The original dirty bloggers. I think one of the big problems with the local media in terms of the Wolves is that they don’t have a columnist whose big #1 sport is basketball. Britt’s place is the only real place to go to get that sort of thing. We’re in the beginning stages of a really good stretch of league wide action and we get guys who are still thinking of things as they were back with Starbury.
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Yes, but without Shooter and Sid
how would we know who’s the new Assistant Tennis Pro at Minnekhada (Don’t Print That!), or about the baby girl born to the JV Cross Country Coach at Normandale Community College?
The rapidly-accelerating Death of Newspapers is being hastened by the motto of “It’s Not Good, But It’s Local.” LeBron’s shot last night won’t be covered, except by an AP piece, or if the strength coach at St. Cloud State once knew a guy who drove LeBron’s mother to the airport.
Britt is great, and Jerry’s doing the best he can with the resources he is given. But it’s still not enough (of course, which is why I’m here with y’all).
And I should add
that KFAN’s “In the Zone” on Saturday mornings does a fantastic job of devoting time and attention to the NBA in general, and the Wolves in particular.
(Except Trent phones it in)
If everything Kahn says about wanting people to be prepared is true, he could never have lived with Trent Tucker as a radio “analyst.” Between him and Kevin Lynch I think we’ve had two all-time lazy, unprepared radio guys.
That show would be so much better if Trent did the tiniest bit of homework.
Lynch was classic
He was so beyond “phoned it in” that he circled back around to “maybe he prepped to be this bad”. Of course, one shouldn’t expect anything less from a Jefferson Jaguar.
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God forbid
you should ever need a vital organ, and it turns out that the only willing donor is an alumnus of both BloomJeff and Duke.
Imagine your moral dilemma . . .
Dilemma solved...
…I will see them in hell.
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Thanks to some intern at SOTC
Here is the transcript of the presser yesterday. I apologize if someone has already posted this.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 23, 2009 1:54 PM CDT reply actions
Kahn said a lot of what I wanted to hear
but all in all that means very little. He’s got some major decisions coming up soon, including deciding McHale’s fate (I’m hoping he lets him go) and making something work with the draft picks we have. The opportunity to wheel n’ deal is available, according to John Hollinger:
Also, I didn’t realize this (maybe I’m a little late to the party) but apparently Rubio is pulling a Jianlian and trying to dictate where he’ll end up:
http://www.draftexpress.com/blog/Jonathan-Givony/#NBA-Draft-Roundup-May-20-3224
These links may have been posted earlier and I missed them, if that’s the case I apologize for the repeat info.
Listened to his press conference and the Barreiro interview. He sounds alot sharper than I had expected. I have plenty of confidence in his ability but some justifiable reservations regarding his motives.
The worrisome aspect of his background stems from his past business practices as exhibited in the fort worth article posted above. Sounds like he doesn’t have any problem trying to move a team and or leverage a move for new facilites.
We all know what Stern’s mo is in that regard. The last one of Stern’s buddies to take over a franchise was Clay Bennett and I’m sure every Sonics basketball fan rues the day they heard his name.
Notice he (Kahn) kept referring to doing what was right for the Timberwolves organization but not necessarily for the city, state or fans.
Three thoughts
1. Just read the Hollinger piece linked above. I think the Wolves could get Washington’s pick @ #5 for Gomes and the #18 pick. This would allow us to grab a couple of good youngsters (DeRozen, Curry, Harden, Jennings, etc.) without giving up Al/Kevin and would still give us room for the right free agent. Or we package #s 5 & 6 to move up for Rubio.
2. As a Sioux Falls resident, I would be thrilled if the Wolves solidified their relationship with the Skyforce. I, too, am a firm believer in turning the D-League into more of a “Farm System” rather than a “feeder” league.
3. A head coach. I hope DK will be creative in his search for a new (please) coach. Don’t limit yourself to the same old retreads. How about Memphis assistant Dave Joerger, who won 5 CBA/NBDL titles with Sioux Falls and the Dakota (Bismarck) Wizards? Or ex-players Michael Cooper and Bill Laimbeer, who’ve proven themselves in the WNBA and the D-League. Heck, even Paul Westphal, who did a good job with Phoenix, has been away from the pro game long enough to bring a fresh perspective.
I really like...
…the 5,6 idea. I think they should do everything they can to get that pick, draft Harden and Curry and walk away with the back court of the future to match Jefferson and Love. It’s an insanely efficient group. Going after the Wizards pick is one of the best things they can do.
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I have mixed feelings about this idea
in theory, I like it too—getting a new, more talented back court to go with the team’s two best players in the front court.
In reality, I think it would be hard to properly develop two rookie guards, and you are going to lose a boatload of games if you give them the serious minutes they would need. Also, that particular combination you advocate—Curry and Harden to go with Jefferson and Love might be efficient, but it’s also pretty unathletic and, relatedly, dubious defensively.
by Eric in Madison on May 23, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions
to me..
….that’s part of the draw. it’s completely outside of what anyone else is trying to do and i think it would force them to play a very entertaining style of ball. it’s the minnesota twins approach to basketball; it would be the equivalent of the piranhas. ultimately, i think they could pull it together with team defense and a solid (and long) 3. defense is more about effort and smarts than athleticism. it would be unlike anything else in the league. i also think that if there were two college guards that you could do this with it is harden and curry. they both seem to be guys that can be team players and blend into a situation greater than themselves.
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I might
go DeRozan/Curry, Jennings/Harden, or ‘Reke/Curry. That way you get a big-time upside guy combined with a more refined skill-set. Curry/Harden is very refined, but to Eric’s point, it further compromises team speed and athleticism. By the same token, I probably wouldn’t take any combination of Jennings, DeRozan, and ‘Reke. ’Reke/Curry seems like the most intriguing because the two would switch roles on offense and defense, with ’Reke playing PG on offense, SG on defense. Can you imagine the Chris Paul’s and Tony Parker’s of the world chasing Curry all around the court coming off of screens? And no way could they match-up with Evans, who could easily post them up.
by Rascal Flatts on May 23, 2009 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, I certainly am willing to consider it
They obviously have to do something. I sort of like that cross-match Curry/Evans suggestion from Rascal Flats.
by Eric in Madison on May 23, 2009 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Getting the number five pick for Gomes and #18 would be a steal...
… and I doubt Washington would do it even if it would save them some money. But it’s fun to speculate. My favorite combination is Jennings (assuming he has good workouts)/Harden. Jennings brings athleticism and pure point guard ability (something Curry and Evans lack). Harden brings bigtime scoring ability and nice size and length at the two. The combination would be good with Love and Jefferson and allow us to move Foye to the sixth man and to limit Bassy’s minutes. We’d still need that “rim protector” to matchup with some of the bigger teams and to cover up for Jefferson and Love’s defensive shortcomings, but we’d instantly be a young team on the rise. We could look like this:
Jennings
Harden
Brewer
Love
Jefferson
Foye
Telfair
C. Smith
Cardinal
Again, I think we’re a shotblocking seven footer from serious competitiveness, but Jennings/Harden could help turn around the franchise….fast.
yeah, I know...
Washington probably wouldn’t do the deal just for Gomes and the #18. We’d probably have to move Smith and a future pick and take back Etan Thomas (who would probably be more effective than Jason Collins, but who wouldn’t!) or Darius Songaila. My only point was that the Wiz can’t afford the #5 and might be willing to make the right deal before the Arenas/Jameson/Butler window closes. It’s the kind of bold move I hope the team is at least willing to explore.
So why dump Foye and Telfair...
just to get two other young players with even less experience and not necessarily more upside (quickness being ever more important for the perimeter game)? Stop-n-Pop I think you should revisit your outstanding analysis of Foye’s year. People seem to forget this was still a very competitive team (barely losing to the Lakers, among other things) in their last month, despite all the ailing bodies. And while Foye has been criticized for being a bit lost as a point immediately before he was sidelined, we gotta remember he was playing hurt… so much so that when he was finally yanked (definitely against his wishes!), he was denied the green light by the medics to return. A serious injury, and one which should be considered in evaluating his talent. (Kind of like the game where KLove got dumped on and downgraded on ROY ratings for having only scoring two points and eight rebounds in a game… that he spent a good part of filling up the puke bucket on the sidelines)
We’re losing sight of the talent we already have. Will we be doing the same whining next year about the how the admin was so idiotic to trade off these guys? (…and I include Gomes, who I personally think is the most underrated T-Wolf)
Foye, Telfair, and Gomes
are who they are, for better or worse. I like what I know about them as people, and as players—just not starting 82 games each. Perennial lottery teams have to keep throwing new players at the wall until they get an above-average starter. Part of it is about improvement as a team, but more of it is selling “hope”—to the fans in general, and season ticket holders in particular (especially around renewal time).
And yes, if the Wolves take Curry/Harden/Evans/DeRozan to take minutes away from Foye/Bassy/Gomes, we’ll likely be complaining about at least one of them by this time next year or the year after. But rarely have the Wolves kicked a player to the curb, only to see him blossom into something we never knew somewhere else.
Gomes/Foye/Telfair
Is Gomes underrated? Judging by the dollar amount on his contract I would tend to say no. He doesn’t defend, or rebound well enough to be a starter at the 4. He does have some value in that he’s a good enough shooting that he can draw bigs away from the basket giving minutes at the 4- but his other weaknesses offset this.
At the 3- he doesn’t use his size or strength to intiate a lot of contact thus drawing on his greatest strength here. His perimeter defense while OK isn’t going to have elite scorers shaking in thier boots either. He’s just not explosive enough athletically to be a starting NBA 3. This isn’t to say he doesn’t have real strengths in his game especially as they relate to setting screens, ball-movement, and general defensive effort.
Foye- I’m actually of the mindset- he could potentially give a team solid minutes at the point. Not so much in the Jason Kidd/Bassy sense of a Pass-First- Floor General more in the sense that he could adequate run a defined offensive game plan for 20 minutes a night. I’m thinking more in the Mo Williams sense. The issues – he needs to improve his decision-making and handle. It’s possible with work and experience he improves these skills enough to give a team solid enough minutes at the 1. For Foye is also not a selfish player and he’s a capable passer. He’s just lacking in the areas I mentioned above. His Defense though is nothing I would write home about also.
If you look at Foye’s monthly splits- it would be hard to argue their weren’t serious consistency issues their last year. His shooting splits were so bad some months- it would be hard to argue he’s a long-term NBA starter given his other skills. Second- anyone would watched the team in depth saw the Offensive issues at the beginning of the season before he began to play more off the ball.
Bassy- I’m a fan in the sense that I think he’s a solid NBA player. His shooting though can be a liability for the Offense as a whole by allowing defenses to collaspe inside. This is why I advocate a player like Stephen Curry to replace him.
I tend to disagree with SNP on certain issues relating to the organization and the league as a whole. At the same time- his assesment of the curent Timberwolves roster is generally spot on (I disagree on Brewer). I can’t really argue with the consensus that these guys mentioned are role players on a good team. This is why fans like Poor Dick and Myself tend to advocate for the drafting of wings/pgs in the draft.
a 1 and a 3
are what they need more than anything else. here’s a deal i’d really like to see them pursue:
To the Wiz:
- Mike Miller
- Randy Foye
- Rights to Pekovic
To the Wolves:
- Nick Young
- JaVale McGee
- Etan Thomas
- #5 pick
The Wiz get 2 guys who can contribute right away with an expiring deal and a small contract. They also get a big that can come over in a year or two and defer salary until they are in a better cap situation. Miller is the best player of the bunch and Foye is better than Young so there is enough value going one way to justify the #5 pick being included. The Wolves give up a lot of outside shooting but not as much as at first glance if you consider Miller’s performance and Foye’s sneakiness. In return, they get the athletic 4/5 they need, a shooting guard backup and a chance to draft 2 of the following: Curry, Harden, DeRozan, Jennings, or Evans. Another way to package this deal is to include Thomas, Mike James, McGee and the #5 pick for Miller, Foye, and Craig Smith. Either way, McGeee + the #5 pick allow them to plug a huge number of holes while ending up with a rotation with more size and athleticism while not taking away the positives of what they already have. This scenario could even be worked to keep a potential trade with the Bulls. The Wolves could pick the Bulls’ guy at 5 and then move him + Cardinal for Hinrich. Here’s the Hinrich-less scenario with Harden and Curry:
1- Bassy/Curry
2- Harden/Brewer (these could be flipped; I just don’t think they’d start 2 rookies in the back court)
3- Gomes/Brewer
4- Love/McGee
5- Jefferson/McGee
They’d still have 18 and 28 with which they could hopefully draft a long 3 like Austin Daye or Victor Claver. They could then move on a guy like AK-47…although they’d be running out of contracts to move and that would be a tough proposition at that point. Here’s the Hinrich scenario:
1- Hinrich/Bassy
2- Harden/Brewer
3- Gomes/Brewer
4- Love/McGee
5- Jefferson/McGee
Again, they’d have to use 18 and 28 to get an Austin Daye/Claver type player to really pull it all together.
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I really like the idea
that if we aren’t targeting a veteran, then we unload anything we can to swing a deal with the Wizards to get their pick. Foye in a year is going to prove a difficult scenario when we have to determine his worth on the open market. Trade him and pick up a younger set of guards with skill sets that better match what this team needs.
That being said, the combo I prefer is Curry and Evans. Evans is a slasher who would play good defense at the 2. He is a poor outside shooter, but is a great finisher at the rim, and can drive and finish or drive and kick, and the timberwolves don’t really have a player to do this as Foye and Telfair don’t finish. Evans weaknesses of outside shooting would be exposed if he had to be paired in the backcourt with Bassy, but with Curry in the backcourt, defenses couldn’t crowd the paint. Ideally with a Curry, Evans backcourt we’d want someone at the 3 who could shoot and play defense, to further mask Evans’ weaknesses; so hopefully Corey’s at the Gym continuing to shoot jumpers.
I don't think I would do this if I'm the Wizards
I look at it like I’m giving up 2 young, promising players with cheap deals AND a fairly large expiring deal (Thomas) to get a slightly bigger expiring contract and a young player who is a year ahead of my guys so I have to make a decision about him sooner. I get more experience at the wing (Miller), but I already have Butler. Maybe there’s a marginal upgrade in here, but the 5th pick is heavy price to pay for that.
I can’t figure out the Wiz, honestly. They talk about saving money, but the one deal you would think they would like to move is Jamison’s; but don’t you need him to make a playoff run? Would either team do a Miller and 28 for Jamison and 5? From the Wiz perspective, they are giving up a 20 & 9 guy AND their pick for Miler…that’s a lot, but they do save money down the line. From the Wolves perspective, they add another frontcourt scorer/limited defense guy, and blow their cap flexibility just to get the 5th pick.
Frankly, I’m having a hard time seeing a fit with the Wizards. What they really need is a team under the cap right now (or holding a trade exception) so they can unload some salary for next season, where they already have 75 million committed. I don’t think the Wolves are in a position to do that.
by Eric in Madison on May 25, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Wash Trade/Atl Trade
I doubt Washingston goes from the proposed trade.
First of all the guys they’ll want to unload are Songalia and Stevenson who go till 2011 on their contracts.
Second of all I highly doubt that they’re going to want to trade Javale McGee as a throw in to a trade they give up the 5th pick.
The Wizards site had a great post on potential trades of Number 5 this week worth checking out-http://www.bulletsforever.com/2009/5/22/883698/trade-scenarios-from-atlanta-to
I agree with E-Bomb’s thoughts on pairing Curry with Evans. The one trade I would love to pursue is a Sign/Trade with Atlanta for Josh Childress. I went off more about my desire for Childress in this post- http://www.canishoopus.com/2009/4/15/839594/on-the-draft#14269281
I just figure that Childress is vastly more proven in his skill-sets than Evans. So looking at Childress’s relationship with Atlanta why not offer them something of value for him
Example:
Ryan Gomes, Number 18, and Mark Madsen for ST Josh Childress.
Brian Cardinal and Number 18 for ST Josh Childress
I figure Childress is worth more than the MLE based on his Win Shares last year along with his solid defense.
I would then really be liking the line-up of
PG- Curry
SG-Brewer
SF-Childress
PF-Love
C-Jefferson
You could then rock a bench of Bassy, Foye, Smith, Miller, and Shelden along with any other options you pursue.
You make up for your lack of size inside by really bolstering your length on the wings. This is kind of a modified Orlando model. As I’ve said before Childress has the skill-set to play as a point Forward on occassion hopefully freeing up Stephen Curry for looks. I really do think this would be a 40 win team next year with the possibility of 50 wins 2 years down the line.
by Jose Cordoba on May 25, 2009 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Washington..
….still ends up with the best two current players in the deal plus a center who isn’t on the books right now. Between Blatche and a healthy Haywood, a 2nd year center isn’t needed on a team that seems to be putting as many eggs in the win-right-now basket as possible. Miller and Foye give them a lot of flexibility, outside shooting, and they both can play from the start. I think you are overestimating McGees’s worth. Nice player, yes, but look at what it takes to trade for a pick; the Wolves are giving the 2 best players and, arguably, a center who would go in the lotto of this year’s draft. As much as fans may be attached to the guy, he’s still very movable piece for a team in complete win-now mode….especially with 2 other centers on the roster. In this weak draft, I think Wiz fans are going to be in for a let down as to what the value of a number 5 pick is (ditto the Wolves with #6). Finally, I’d also remind Wiz fans of who their new coach is and how much he relies on guys like Foye and Miller over big men.
I do like the idea of Childress. He had some interesting things to say about staying in Europe after the riot during his last game.
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Here's something that seems more likely for the Wiz
Thomas, Stevenson, and the 5 for Miller. This saves the Wiz a few dollars this year, and gives them a shooter. I’m not loving ths as the Wolves, but I’d think about it. Thomas remains an expiring contract, and I’m just adding Stevenson’s 4 million for 2011.
I don’t know about this one if I’m Kahn…
by Eric in Madison on May 26, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions
All of our pitter patter about role players and rookies
cracks me up when I watch the Cavaliers, with arguably the best player on the planet and one the greatest ever, who are so deep that guys like Ben Wallace, Anderson V., Joe Smith and Wally are lucky to get more than a few minutes of burn at a time, and they’re looking to be on the short end of the stick against an Orlando team with an over-rated center in Howard, and under-utilized swing man in Lewis, and without a starting point guard.
Orlando has showed the virtue of a team that can shoot, so let’s hope Miller starts shooting like he’s supposed to, and the Wolves get Harden/Curry to start raining threes. But Orlando is really showing that successful teams have to have talent, but talent alone doesn’t account for success (think about that when you’re deciding if you’re excited or worried that McHale might be coaching this team next year).
WOW, Howard overrated?
I know he’s pretty short on offensive moves and he’s got free throw woes (although he’s doing pretty well this series), but overrated?
Who’s a better center than Howard? I can see the argument for Duncan and Yao, but beyond that I don’t think anyone touches him. He’s automatic 3 feet from the basket, and his defensive abilities allow Orlando to trot out two small forwards (although they’re taller than average) in the frontcourt.
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I get it
I love Howard, and I think he’s getting jobbed on calls in the Cleveland series.
But these play-offs have been my first chance to watch him for several games in a row, against several types of defenders. And your admissions are the exact reasons I think he is very, very good—just not great, and especially not historically—yet. I was surprised at just how limited his offensive game is, and how well Perkins pushed him around in the Celtics series (which, if Garnett were healthy, would have easily neutralized Howard’s game).
With as close as he is being watched by the refs, the Cavaliers could completely take him out of the game by driving at him, and using Gordon/Anderson/Z to foul him if he gets the ball within five feet of the hoop (I think the previous game’s FT’s were an outlier). Make Pietrus and Hedo drain those threes to beat you—sooner or later, they’ll have an off night, and Lewis’s disappearance acts won’t be enough to offset the loss of offensive production.
Geez, they shoulda been fouling him in overtime last night.
While I didn’t see the foul on LBJ at the end of regulation, Howard was definitely NOT fouled by Varejao immediately after.
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