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Building a Winner Update, pt. ii: the Draft

You can read the first part of our updated Building a Winner post here.

In this post we will begin to deal with the three main areas of personnel: the draft, free agency, and trades.  Let's take a moment to briefly look at what the Wolves have going for them. 

Currently, the Wolves have just over $50 million in 11 2009/10 contracts if you include the player option controlled by Bobby Brown.  They have two potential cap holds in Sheldon Williams and Jason Collins.  I would suspect that both of these players could earn end of the bench spots elsewhere in the league but you never really know in this economy. 

The team also owns approximately $21.6 million in expiring 2009/10 contracts spread across four players: Mike Miller, Brian Cardinal, Mark Madsen, and Craig Smith.  This number could be bumped up to $25.3 million should the team not pick up Corey Brewer's option.  Keep in mind that in any simultaneous trade, the Wolves can bring back 125% + $100,000 of the salary going out the door.  In other words, were they able to throw all of these players into a single deal, they could bring back an extra $6.3 million, or $31.6 million total, which would still (likely) place them under the cap and well below the luxury threshold.  In other words, they are in a nice position to use this year's draft + existing players to bring back some high level players.  They just need to find a willing trade partner(s) and, if successful, convince these players to stay aboard.

Draft-wise, the team owns three first round (#6, #18, #28) and two second round (#45, #47) draft picks in this season's draft  and two potential first rounders (Utah top 17 protected, top 10 protected pick owed to the Clippers) and two second rounders (their own, Houston's) in 2010. 

Putting some of this together, the big elephant in the room is the economy and looming CBA changes.  Do the Wolves want to make a splashy trade and lock themselves into inflexible deals shortly before changes everybody suspects are coming?  Rule changes can throw quite a monkey wrench into a team's plans.  Remember Trenton Hassell and the league's new hand checking rules? It's a lot easier to defend sans arm bar, right Trenton? Anywho, this is a risky environment, especially when the team is considering bringing back large chunks of salary in return for existing (and cheaper) assets. 

Let's set free agency and trades aside for a moment and take a quick look at the Hoopus Draft Board

 

Star-divide

This year we've made a few changes to our method.  We have divided the Hoopus Score into two parts: quantity and quality.  To give you a basic idea of how this formula works, the first number is a per-100 possession average of Four Factor related efficiency stats.  It deals with how efficiently a player scores, how well he gets to the line, how little (or much) he turns it over, and how well he cleans the glass.  The second number is a per-game tally of the number of net positive events a player accumulates.  We add up things like points, rebounds, assists, and blocks; we weight them and then subtract things like turnovers, fouls, and missed free throws, which are also weighted. 

We have also split our results into three player categories (guards, wings, and bigs) and three tiers (top, middle, and late).  Here are this year's top three tiers minus Blake Griffin, Ricky Rubio, and any additional international players (whom we have zero clue how to properly evaulate...we are learning, however, and hope to have a system in place by next year):

Tier One:

  1. Stephen Curry: 42.6/13.203 (55.803-guard) (10.4/8-17)
  2. Demar Derozan: 31.3/13.879 (45.179-wing) (7.8/6-12)
  3. James Harden: 38.4/10.393 (48.793-guard) (5.6/5-6)
  4. Hasheem Thabeet: 42.7/14.703 (57.4-big)  (3/2-4)
  5. DeJuan Blair: 37.825/15.578 (53.403-big) (14/11-20)

Tier Two:

  1. Ty Lawson: 35.275/10.616 (45.668-guard) (15.6/11-22)
  2. Nick Calathes: 33.3/10.575 (43.875-guard) (23.75/21-2nd)
  3. Eric Maynor: 32.875/9.558 (42.433-guard) (17.2/13-22)
  4. Terrence Williams: 26.775/11.06 (37.835-wing) (18.8/9-28)
  5. Jeff Teague: 35.525/7.813 (43.358-guard) (15.2/8-22)
  6. Marcus Thornton: 31.875/9.685 (41.156-guard) (26.3/23-2nd)

Tier Three:

  1. Jordan Hill: 33.999/12.451 (46.45-big) (4.6/4-5)
  2. Chase Budinger: 29.575/10.953 (40.528-wing) (21/11-27)
  3. Damion James: 31.05/9.3 (40.35-wing) (2nd/UFA)
  4. Tyreke Evans: 31.4/8.414 (39.814-guard) (9.4/7-15)
  5. Gerald Henderson: 30.5/7.808 (38.308-guard) (13.2/10-20)
  6. Sam Young: 29.8/8.196 (37.996-wing) (26.5/22-2nd)
  7. Lee Cummard: 30.6/11.359 (41.959-guard) (2nd/UFA)
  8. Tyler Hansbrough: 39.375/13.766 (53.141-big) (23/20-2nd)
  9. James Johnson: 29.375/10.77 (40.145-big) (15/11-16)
  10. Toney Douglas: 31.25/8.842 (40.092-guard) (2nd)
  11. Wayne Ellington: 27.3/8.828 (36.128-guard) (20-2nd)

We have made a few changes on this version from the college year-end board.  We have continued to downgrade Tyreke Evans.  His shooting is simply too big of a red flag to outweigh his intriguing positives.  Not only is he not that efficient, but his net per-game positives aren't anything to write home about.  In his place we have bumped up Jeff Teague and Marcus Thornton. 

You will also notice a second parentheses with two additional numbers.  The first number represents the average mock draft spot taken from 4 outside mock drafts plus our very own.  The second number is the range on those mock drafts.  This isn't meant as any sort of definitive metric; rather, it was suggested to us by someone familiar with the NFL draft process as a way of best figuring out what other teams will do as a way of setting value.  It is merely meant as a slight guide post.  In the version that was suggested to us, the draft group has someone research each and every single team and not only attempt to make their draft board, but recreate how they think other teams will realistically draft.  They then put together an average and a range and use this is as a general guidepost for expected (not necessarily acceptable) player draft ranges.  Since we have neither the time or access to do this on our own (we will add it to our Wolves PersonnelWiki), I'm just going to average out some mock drafts as an example/modest guidepost.  Along with our own, I'm using DX, Chad Ford, Real GM, and NBADraft.net.  I'm throwing out any outliers that exist beyond a pre-set range. 

Putting this little tool to use, we see that the top draft board ranked players are as follows, with their average draft position:

  1. Thabeet- 3
  2. Hill- 4.6
  3. Harden- 5.6
  4. Derozan- 7.8
  5. Evans- 9.4
  6. Curry- 10.4
  7. Henderson- 13.2
  8. Blair- 14

Value-wise, the Wolves, picking 6th, are in a weird spot.  Luckily for them, 5 of these top 8 players are tier one players.  If Thabeet or Harden are available at 6, they would both be a tremendous value.  Curry would be a nice pick, but they could likely find him later on in the lotto were they able to move down.  Ultimately, this tool is useful for judging value, not BPA, which is what the Wolves should take no matter what with their top pick should they choose to stick with the status quo.

With the 18th pick, it is quite likely that the Wolves will be able to make a value pick, ideally with someone from tier two. 

The 28th pick should not be overlooked.  This is not a pick that should be traded away for cash.  It should be used on either the BPA or a EuroLeague player that can come over in 1-3 years.  Here are a few international players that would be of great value to the Wolves:

  1. Victor Claver
  2. Omri Casspi
  3. Rodrigue Beaubois
  4. Nando De Colo 
  5. Antoine Diot

Unless the 28th pick is packaged in a larger deal, it should not be moved on its own.  There are simply too many options for it to sell it for cash.  As of now, and keeping with the status quo, here are the top 5 picks for each of the Wolves' three picks:

#6:

  1. Stephen Curry
  2. Demar DeRozan
  3. James Harden
  4. Hasheem Thabeet
  5. DeJuan Blair

#18 (if any of the first group are still available, they go to #1 in this tier):

  1. Ty Lawson
  2. Nick Calathes
  3. Eric Maynor
  4. Terrence Williams
  5. Jeff Teague

#28 (same rule as above applies here):

  1. Euro player (see above list)
  2. Marcus Thornton
  3. Chase Budinger
  4. Damion James
  5. Sam Young

Adding in the value concept, here is how the top five look when taking into consideration estimated draft position:

  1. Hasheem Thabeet
  2. James Harden
  3. Demar DeRozan
  4. Tyreke Evans
  5. Stephen Curry

(Ed Note/UPDATE: With the news that Calathes has signed with a Greek team, it probably makes little sense for the Wolves to draft him at 18, and such an adjustment would be made with the value concept.  Talent-wise, we have him listed near the top of tier two and that is the main point here.)

In a perfect world, and regardless of other personnel moves, we hope that the Wolves would walk away from this draft with James Harden or Stephen Curry with the top pick and Ty Lawson or Nick Calathes with the second pick.  The wild cards here are two players that could perform well in workouts and finally start living up to their potential: BJ Mullens and Austin Daye.  Both of these players represent physical models of everything the Wolves need at the backup 4/5 or 5 and the starting 3.  While they both underperformed at the college level, the Wolves could do a lot worse than select one of these players in a weak draft.  Potential matters in a draft like this and both of these players could have put up much better numbers had they stayed in college a year longer.  Short of the (Harden/Curry)/(Lawson/Calathes) draft, the Wolves certainly could do worse than to take Mullens or Daye at 18 if they keep the pick. 

The big wild card in this draft is Tyreke Evans.  There is no other player in the draft that can change the Wolves as much as Mr. Evans.  6'6" guards with a nearly 7 foot wingspan who can play on the ball don't exactly grow on trees.  By drafting Evans, the Wolves could continue to start Randy Foye and he could even play off the ball.  Of course, the same could probably be said about James Harden, but Evans represents a much more intriguing NBA skill set: a dribble drive game that can get into the lane and to the rim.  Unfortunately, he has a jump shot from hell and this will likely hurt him beyond belief at the next level. 

I have seen it written over and over that the Memphis offense serves to inflate Evans' numbers and that this should also be taken into consideration.  Folks, John Calipari runs a system that not only teaches players how to play (rather than what to play), but it is probably the single-best transitional system between high school and the pros that exists in the US.  DDM is not a fluky system and it encourages traits that work well in the NBA: being strong with the ball in one-on-one situations, getting to the rim, learning how to kick out and rotate the ball against the defense, etc. This is why Calipari was able to jump to Kentucky and immediately bring in an amazing recruiting class.  One-and-doners want to be with the guy.  

Moving on, should Harden and Thabeet be off the board at 6, the Wolves will have a tough decision to make between Curry and DeRozan.  In all likelihood, they can find a decent point guard with the 18th pick but they also could settle for the Mullens/Daye option or someone like Chase Budinger which would allow them to go with Curry, who is one of the most intriguing pick-and-roll prospects to hit the league in the last 10 years.  While my impartial mind tells me that Thabeet and Harden are at the top of the Wolves' board, my heart is really pulling for Curry--a player who I really think could turn in to a special, special player if paired with Kevin Love. Curry is bigger than Sebastian Telfair, can shoot the ball like no one else that has come out of college in a long time, and has shown that he can be on the ball a great deal.  The big downside with drafting a guy like Curry is that he is likely incompatible with Randy Foye in the starting backcourt.  With Evans and Harden, the Wolves probably could get away with the Foye-at-2 experiment because both of these players have legit size to guard the off-guard.  Curry does not.  Foye does not.  We'll revisit the Foye issue in the summary post.

OK, we've mentioned that this is the list in terms of the status quo.  We full expect (and recommend) that the status quo will be thrown out the window and that 1, 2, or all 3 of the first round picks will be traded for additional assets.  Due to the length of this post, we are going to extend this series.  In the next post we will talk about trades and free agency. 

Until later.

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It’s still not going to hurt his draft status. If anything, a team can take him in the 20s and let him play over there for a year. Adding in the value part of tier two probably moves him down simply for the fact that he will be looked at in the late 20s. I agree with that. I just have him listed as being near the top of tier two.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on May 26, 2009 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

PS:

You’re probably right about adding a caveat about Calathes’ late round draft status. We’ll make a note of that in our final draft board. I think he’ll go in the 20s but I think he’s more talented than that.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on May 26, 2009 7:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you think...

He did this in hopes that he’ll fall to the 2nd round and can play up his value beyond a rookie-scale contract?

by pagingstanleyroberts on May 26, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think...

…there are probably a number of reasons. His ethnic background probably has a lot to do with it (he has dual citizenship). Beyond that, it just makes sense. He’ll get financial security and a chance to play at a higher level no matter what happens. He’ll have a buyout in his contract and he won’t have to worry about slipping to the second round with no guaranteed contract.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on May 26, 2009 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So it might be just a good hedge in case he falls. I don’t think he will fall out of the first.

by pagingstanleyroberts on May 26, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Plus, there is some value to

saving his reputation if he slips in the draft.

by PoorDick on May 26, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Moving Foye + expirings for that nr5 pick would be excellent. Curry+Harden and we’re set … nice thing is could even happen .. People always like to talk about the Foye/Roy deal .. but remember that Boston was the one holding that pick … they traded TELFAIR for Roy.. no reason that we can’t trade Foye for a nr5… :)

Like your article again. I’m more and more warming up to just going with Curry @ 6.

Beater of the early Thabeet drum ... but not so much of the late one

by Wim (Belgium) on May 26, 2009 8:00 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

excellent point....

…about what it takes to move around in the draft. If you look at what has been traded in the past, you won’t find too many big hauls.

BTW: I made an update to the post to clarify the Calathes situation.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on May 26, 2009 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That deal in its entirety was Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff and an ’08 second-rounder to Boston
for
Dan Dickau, Raef LaFrentz and Randy Foye.

(That’s the sort of trade Penn would have made his mark on, in a big way. The cap aspects of the deal were as important as the talent involved.)

by feral on May 26, 2009 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

my bad; I thought I was leaving something out but it seems my memory detoriates faster than I though ^^; thx 4 clearing that up

Beater of the early Thabeet drum ... but not so much of the late one

by Wim (Belgium) on May 26, 2009 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

also

I’d sub in Gomes for Foye in that trade

Beater of the early Thabeet drum ... but not so much of the late one

by Wim (Belgium) on May 26, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, no "bad"

I just thought the complete trade had some interesting traits to it.

by feral on May 27, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not picking up Brewer would be a real shock

Excellent article. My expectations are rising for this site, if not so much for the team it covers just yet.

Can we imagine the Wolves not picking up Corey’s option? Kahn is fresh off the boat, and he’s saying that he has to listen to the people here and respect their “excellent” work in front of the draft. Hoiberg, who seems to be our main talent guy from outside, has used Brewer’s injury as one explanation for the bad year; the team line is that Corey was about to turn that proverbial corner, and Freddy’s been on the radio with that. You hear the same thing from the players. For Kahn to cut bait on Corey Brewer would mark a significant break from orthodoxy. (It might reflect a new respect for stats work, too — Brewer not being a big favorite by numerical measures of success?) I’m not sure Kahn’s ready for that — and what’s the timetable for deciding?

If the Wolves were to get extremely aggressive on the grounds that this offseason is more of a buyer’s market than next, they might need to do something like that. It’d be, in outline, a little like the Brand signing by Philadelphia last year. We’d have to shave off Brewer a little like the Sixers trimmed Carney, in order to clear more money for some big-money hire (or trade pickup, more likely).

I doubt the team would have its act together to do that in time, even if Kahn was prepared to pull the trigger on moves of that kind. Thanks again, Glen, for kicking that can from December to May.

by feral on May 26, 2009 8:44 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Hoopus is great

Of all the sports blogs I visit, Hoopus consistently ranks near the top in its quality of writing and analysis. Great job guys!

I think Brewer stays, simply because he’s the only competent wing defender on the team. Add in that he’s young and still hasn’t established a ceiling yet, is reasonably priced, and seems quite coachable, I don’t think Kahn will ca(h)n him. Whether he’d be packaged with a guy like Foye to sweeten a potential trade (let’s say to Washington, who’d get a great defensive wing sub to pair with Arenas at the end of games), I just don’t know, although that seems a lot more probable. It makes just too much sense to keep him if you’re going to try and bring in some shooters through the draft, especially if you go for Washington’s pick/Curry (assuming they’re targeting Harden).

However, if they get Derozen, I’d expect Brewer to become very available to other teams.

My hope is that Foye gets moved. I think his value is highest right now (or that it will only go down as teams realize what he is), and I think this is a great market to convince another team of his worth and get future picks/current players for him. Maybe I’m wrong and just don’t see how to use Foye susccessfully. I just feel like he’ll never live up to the role ‘Sota fans have in their minds for him, and thus he’ll be seen as a failure if he’s anything other than a starter or 6th man of the year. Besides, I think this team needs a new direction centered on an inside/outside game with Big Al and Kevin Love. Foye is too streaky and too, I don’t know the right word—too ’doesn’t get it within the team/scheme concept’ for me. Maybe a new coach will help, maybe not.

Someone please enlighten me further on the case for and against Foye, because at this point I’d like to see the Wolves just move him for what they can and start fresh at how they plan to use the 1 and the 2 (with Bassy and Brewer the backups).

"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."

by biggity2bit on May 26, 2009 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like Foye for that 6th man role

but you bring up good points about Foye and the fans both benefiting from a change of scenery for him. I think he has great character and good skills, yet he’s been hampered by his status as a tweener, and his injuries (ironically, his durability was one of the reasons the Wolves preferred him over Roy).

More importantly, in spite of playing just 191 games for the same team, he has endured trying to learn to play PG while undergoing a succession of coaching changes (Casey, McHale, Wittman, McHale, and sooner or later someone else).

I hope the Wolves find a way to keep him, though, as I believe he is a player who could flourish as a role player for a contender.

by PoorDick on May 26, 2009 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks feral and b2b

Always appreciated (and keeps us warm on the cold nights of a 13-game losing streak).

Re: Brewer, I think it would be ridiculously short-sighted for the Wolves to not exercise his option for a very simple reason: he’s only played 94 games in two seasons.

His size, shooting and confidence weaknesses were painfully obvious at times, but those three are all fixable (size to the least extent). Where he was picked and who else was available (things we’ve talked about a lot ’round here) are irrelevant as far as determining whether or not he deserves further evaluation.

Maybe it’s a bit contradictory, but I also don’t think Brewer should influence our draft selection. We have enough question marks up and down the roster that any position besides power forward should be considered on June 25.

www.canishoopus.com

by wyn on May 26, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Brewer

Isn’t his option for the next summer? The wolves would watch him play this season and then decide next off season if they would rather have the cap space?

by swheatle on May 26, 2009 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok, you're right swheatle

Brewer’s contract is guaranteed next season (per exercising of his option last October)

www.canishoopus.com

by wyn on May 26, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you’re unsure you can check out our excellent contract info page, here:

http://www.canishoopus.com/pages/contract-info

(harr harr)

Beater of the early Thabeet drum ... but not so much of the late one

by Wim (Belgium) on May 26, 2009 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

:)

the page was accurate. my memory? not so much.

www.canishoopus.com

by wyn on May 26, 2009 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

héhé, just wanted to take my chance in promoting the excellent contract info page. Do I get 1 buck for saying excellent contract info page? You bet I get an extra dollar for saying excellent contract info page.

Beater of the early Thabeet drum ... but not so much of the late one

by Wim (Belgium) on May 27, 2009 6:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Excellent contract info page.

Who do I see for my dollar????

www.canishoopus.com

by wyn on May 27, 2009 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let's hope

Glen and Kahn and (insert future coach’s name here) do their jobs at least as well as SnP and Wyn do theirs. This is the best site to go to for the Wolves, and hoops in general.

But one of the most interesting things to me is that I spend a lot of time on sites that cover topics more “serious” and supposedly-intellectual than professional basketball. Yet the quality of discussion, high level of courtesy, and reasoned, well-researched opinions expressed by both moderators and commenters are much higher here* than they are at the other sites.

*Note: Praise of canishoopus commenters does not apply to everybody—and you know who you are.

Kidding!

(mostly)

by PoorDick on May 26, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gracias

Your check is in the mail.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on May 26, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brand and the 76ers

Ugg, please don’t do what the 76er’s did. Honestly they are a better team without Brand and his 100 million dollar contract… I’d rather see the wolves continue to develop their past draft picks, and add some new guys via draft or trading expiring contracts for young guys…

by DR_JPK on May 26, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In Foye we trust

The biggest nugget of the off season – new GM and maybe new coach is exactly that…

Foye needs to blossom and should have last year…now I don’t mean to pick him apart while I am dominating YMCA leagues but he had no reason to show us what he was about LAST year so he would not be so much of a enigma cloud over the team. I expect that we would not know how the Wolves value until they are on the clock at number 6 <where is the lotto teddy bear love!>.

I assume that Thabeet and Rubio and the Jewel of the draft will not be available at 6. I fully expect the Wolves to take a C <been looking for one since Garrett, Dean days> and Rubio would be too good to pass up. If the Wolves pick Curry then Foye is gone…either trade or bench role because he can not consistently guard bigger 2s. If they pick De De then Foye is still gone because he is not a floor leader to lead a young slasher and feed post players. A Harden/Evans pick would be equivalent of putting faith into Mr. Wade lite + a few feet on his jumper, because it would allow Evans to dominate the ball or Harden to be the leader on the floor.

Yes, Foye has had coaching changes but this is no the NFL – you have to show talent and outside of a 15-25 game strech every season, Foye has disappointed…he can not have just two moves in an arsenal – step back J off of his left hand that may go 20 feet into the air and his "I will go back to my right hand" drive that gets blocked 30% of the time…

Show up…Love did…Al did

by majinman on May 26, 2009 9:31 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Kind of my take too

Perhaps Foye suffers from more of a perception or expectations issue than anything else (specifically the fans expectations of him). It’s not that he’s necessarily a bad basketball player, but the reality is that he’s not a starter, and simply hasn’t shown the talent or ability to adjust and excel at the NBA level. He’s a great role player/spot starter, but does he have more value than a Ryan Gomes caliber player? Foye would be a killer fourth or fifth option—imagine him playing next to a Kobe or Lebron, or even on a team like the Spurs or Magic. That, to me, is Foye’s ceiling—bench role player on most teams, a killer on very good teams. If he was more than that, we’d have seen it by now.

And I think the NFL comparison is a good one terms of coaches and learning to play PG—the best PG’s just get it, like Adrian Peterson gets how to cut and run. How long did we wait for Michael Bennett to ‘learn’ how to run? Some guys have great athletic ability or some above average skills, but why not call Foye what he is—a Michael Bennett-type player who fans expect to be (or become) Purple Jesus?

"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."

by biggity2bit on May 26, 2009 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed...

with most of that, except I think Foye could be a starter on a team like the Lakers or Magic. He just cannot be relied on to be a primary, or even secondary option. I love him as a shooter—and he’s also effective in transition. He just needs to be a scoring specialist, since that’s what he is, at heart. I repeat this a lot, but I think Jason Terry is the guy for Foye to model his game around. Jet Terry looks for his own shot more than he creates, but he’s not the point guard, and he’s not the first scoring option. Both Terry and Foye are tremendous three-point jumpshooters.

by Andy G on May 26, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Couple of thoughts

- By no way, shape, or form should Foye’s existence on our roster constrain who we pick in the draft. If Curry is deemed the best option, than so be it. As majinman stated above, last season was Foye’s for the taking. He was given every opportunity to blossom and he performed at a high level for one 15-game stretch, but otherwise was very disappointing. For right now we should just assume his best role is as a 6th man bench scorer until he proves otherwise.

- In terms of the guys that Hoopus gives high marks to – Curry, DeRozan, and Lawson especially – two of these three can probably be had with the #6 pick and a #8-12 pick. So rather than trying to shake #5 loose from Washington, why not try to move into the 8-12 range and give up less than what’s required to get #5? On the other hand, Washington may be the only partner willing to dance….

- If we keep #18, I love the possibilities there. Daye, Teague, Maynor, Holiday J. Johnson, and just may be even Ty Lawson could be around. In fact, #18 could end up being the better pro than #6 in this draft.

- Totally agree with keeping #28 as opposed to just selling it for cash. There are some SG prospects like Marcus Thornton and Jermaine Taylor that could end up being very good pros. And Calathes is intriguing in this slot as well.

by Rascal Flatts on May 26, 2009 12:25 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

There's no quesion in my mind that the Wolves could add a pick in the mid-late lottery

if they so chose: Miller for Kapono, Banks, and 9? Cardinal for Diop and 12? Any number of other Bobcat scenarios to get their pick.

The question is whether you want to spend your flexibility on a draft pick as opposed to a player(s). Kahn seemed to suggest they wanted something more established, which I tend to think is right. We get a little too excited about picks—many, many picks don’t pan out. It’s easy to dream about players we haven’t seen in the NBA, but it’s important to be realistic too.

Here’s one that maybe combines both: Miller and the 18 to Charlotte for Diaw and 12. Would the Bobcats do this? It gets them out from Diaw’s deal, but he’s a pretty good player. Would anyone do Miller and Cardinal for Diaw, Diop, and 12? Yikes, I wouldn’t; that salary onload is brutal.

by Eric in Madison on May 26, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kapono + #9 for Cardinal + #28

Seems too much for us to take on both Kapono and Banks contracts

by Biff Cooper on May 26, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Foye

I really think that some people are still selling Foye short. He has not, nor will ever be, the #1 option, but I think #2 or 3 is still attainable. He did look good in January, but after Jefferson went down could not handle the #1 position. Of course, those who could handle the #1 position at that particular juncture in Wolves lore are not coming here ( LeBron. Kobe, Wade). Yes, he needs to play better defense ( don’t all the Wolves) and it would be handy if he suddenly shot up 3 or 4 inches, but if we play him with an Evens or a Harden (if he really is 6’6) then we could have the start of a very good team.

Foye is just too small to take on the top dog role.

Sometimes the obvious is hidden.

by frankenhoops on May 26, 2009 12:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Moving up in the draft

With all the assets the wolves have this summer and next (picks, expiring contracts, youngish players) shouldn’t the wolves be trying to move into the top 3 for a chance at Rubio or Thabeet? Taking the best player in the draft at their need positions (C, PG) Or would it cost too much for a non-sure thing? Everyone but Griffin looks risky in this draft.
Who I’m really intrigued with is Rubio. It may take him a few years to put everything together at the NBA level but everything I’ve read suggests he is very savvy, very smart on the court leading a team. He’s not overly athletic, but watching the playoffs, athleticism seems to be overrated; give me smart, hard nosed team players who understand the game.
In that vein, the wolves should definitely be thinking Rubio, Harden, Curry and not DeRozan, Hill, or Evans (yes, I know I’ve contradicted myself with Thabeet.) I don’t know if Daye and Holiday have both athleticism and smarts, but I doubt either would be available at #18.

by swheatle on May 26, 2009 12:52 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I was going to put this...

…above the fold but we can talk about it here:

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-40-131/Ricky-Rubio—Bursting-with-Potential—but-No-Quick-Fix.html

Henry gives a fantastic run down of Rubio’s pros and cons. I think he’s an interesting case for the Wolves. I also think this article is the best overview of the issues I’ve talked about with Rubio. He’s not a quick fix. He’s not a sure thing. He’s a huge, huge risk and there are many parts of his game that could fail to translate to the NBA. That being said, he’s an amazing passer and off-the-ball defender and he clearly sees the game in ways that few people of his age can.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on May 26, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's a great piece.

For what it’s worth, DraftExpress now has Rubio going to the Kings at the fourth pick (and the Wolves picking Evans(!)).

It probably makes too much sense to happen, but here’s how the Rubio situation should go down:

1. LA Clippers send Baron (and filler) back to Golden State, in return for Maggette (and filler).
2. Clippers pick Griffin with the first pick
3. Grizzlies pick Rubio with the second pick
4. Clippers trade Griffin for Rubio

Clippers start

Rubio
Gordon
Maggette
Randolph
Camby

Grizz start

Conley
Mayo
Gay
Griffin
Gasol

For the Wolves’ sake, I hope this doesn’t happen . . .

by PoorDick on May 26, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Clippers have two bad choices:

First choice: unload Zach Randolph to make space for Griffin. This option is almost literally impossible given Randolph’s money, though his contract only lasts for another two years. Zach’s the 2010 free agency killer.

Second choice: unload Baron Davis, with his money, injury history, and history of ‘work slowdowns,’ in order to make space for Rubio, and then maneuver so as not to lose too much draft value by passing on Griffin at #1. Any reasonable observer would expect them to get tangled up attempting to carry out this approach. Golly, Baron surely wouldn’t drag his feet over whatever trade was involved…. Right? Right?

Sacramento, meanwhile, could use either Rubio (who supposedly wants to play there based on one echoed rumor) or Griffin. They could deal up to #2, fouling whatever plans Mike Dunleavy’s got cooking, and happily take either player.

Personally I’d be super delighted if Z-Bo made his way to Don Nelson’s tutelage. It occurs to me that there could be just a liiiiiiittle clash of personalities, there, as well as countless three-pointers attempted at inopportune moments.

by feral on May 26, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's the funny thing about that trade

is that depending how wacky the Golden State/Clippers deal gets, you could see Baron AND The Zack Attack going back to Golden State—and no one would be shocked.

I don’t get the Rubio-to-Sacto allegations—why would that be a place he would prefer?

by PoorDick on May 26, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nobody knows, exactly

But supposedly LA and Sacramento were on the list of places he would go.

Probably that’s just the agent looking at who’s up top in the lottery, and ruling out the bad ’uns.

by feral on May 26, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

DE’s Jonathon Givony spoke to an unnamed source about Rubio’s destination preferences, and supposedly:

According to the source, Rubio’s decision is going to come down to two things: winning and the role he’ll play for the team that picks him. The size of the market of the team that drafts him is apparently irrelevant, since his appeal will be on a global scale, reaching far past his team’s city limits.

That is, Rubio doesn’t like Memphis because they have a ball dominant guard in Mayo (and Conley’s still around), and he doesn’t fancy OKC due to Westbrook.

by jianfu on May 26, 2009 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

well..

….if he is looking for a team without guards, do we ever have a team for him!

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on May 26, 2009 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

n1

Beater of the early Thabeet drum ... but not so much of the late one

by Wim (Belgium) on May 27, 2009 6:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't be opposed to trading for ZBO

Granted I would want back the Jaric Pick and an Unconditional First in 2010. But the Wolves would be able to trade enough expirings to make something work. This could even be a way for Jason Collins to get a. KVH type Pay Day (Which would almost make the deal worth considering unto itself)

 You would then have all sorts of Cap Room in 2011 when players like http://www.realgm.com/src_freeagents/2011/- Hit the Market.
This might not be the best idea but no one is untradeable for enough sweetner it’s a possibility.

by Jose Cordoba on May 26, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay

now you’re getting goofy. An overpaid, undersized head case, who already plays the only position the Wolves don’t need to improve? For a couple of mid-round draft picks? Not only does that delay the rebuilding process by a year, but it also adds an unlikeable player to a team that has nothing to offer but decent personalities.

Besides, the Wolves already have all sorts of Cap Room in 2011.

by PoorDick on May 26, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ZBO would add nothing

Other than second-unit scoring. I still think the Clippers pick would have some value as I still think they’d be in the Top 10 Next Year. The Jaric Pick would make us breath easier- although I tend to think it’ll end up around Mid-First Round. I was just making the point that if you add enough incentive he’s not untradeable. I’m not advocating this as the best use of Picks and Cap Space. I’m only pointing out that you could make such a trade work.

by Jose Cordoba on May 26, 2009 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Getting creative...

I think a trade for Randolph could benefit both teams. How about this one:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=qbbqn3

Wolves upgrade (and get younger) at 2-guard, get DeAndre (and won’t have to draft Mullens) and put up with Z-Bo for one season, before buying him out midway through his last year.

Clips get cap relief and Foye.

Maybe they’d throw in our 1st Rounder owed.

Is this a good trade?

by Andy G on May 26, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ZBO? Nooooo!

I’ve watched ZBO play for Portland and they couldn’t wait to get rid of him because of his work habits, selfishness, lack of D, and party life style (he likes to ‘make it rain’ at strip clubs.) Portland didn’t want him to influence their young players on what NBAers do. They ran him out of New York when they got tired of his act. He makes a great Clipper.

by swheatle on May 26, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I understand that Z-Bo is a cancer, but if the Clips are willing to pay that much to get rid of him and clear room for Griffin, I think we take a hard look at it. Foye for Roy might look a lot better if Foye becomes Eric Gordon—a budding star.

It also, arguably, makes sense for LAC, since Blake Griffin is the only can’t-miss in this draft and their idea to trade down for Rubio is a huge risk. The opportunity to bring in Griffin without the cancerous competition for their 4-spot could arguably be worth downgrading from Gordon to Foye at the 2. Especially when Baron can play point and fully relieve Foye of even the thought of that responsibility.

by Andy G on May 26, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is a very interesting Trade

I’d Love it for the Wolves. A sure starter and possible star SG and a potential guy who fills a glaring need in Jordon. If Glen could suck up having to pay all that hard earned money to Randolph that’d be sweet.

How horrible would that original trade that brought in Randolph look for the clippers if they ended up doing this. Whew. Thank God Sperling has no Shame.

by Pants_ on May 27, 2009 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

This is one scenario that I think it makes sense to eat a bad contract. Gordon and Jordan could be building blocks for the long haul (more attractive than 99% of this year’s draft, at least in Gordon’s case) and they both fill positions of need (not power forwards).

Randolph might hate it up here, but he was a Michigan State guy, so who knows. Maybe he just needs to get back to the good old Midwest… ok, he’d probably be an asshole, but we’d just have to put up with it and enjoy all of our young talent.

by Andy G on May 27, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gordon is ahead of Harden/Evans/DeRozan...

if he is in this years draft. He’d probably be the 2nd/3rd best player this year…. though given what teams are in the top 4 Gordon likely falls to #5.

by Pants_ on May 27, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Guys like Z-Bo get more tradable over time, too.

As his contract gets shorter and shorter, he’ll get more tradable. I bet he changes teams three more time before his contract expires. And then he’ll probably get resigned at a high price by some stupid fools, who will begin looking to trade him immediately after the 60 days are up.

by princelyfrank on May 27, 2009 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

3 more times might be a bit much but if the Wolves traded for him now he’d very possibly be tradeable at the following season’s deadline. There will always be someone wanting to clear cap.

He is also one of those guys who puts up numbers gaudy enough to entice desperate GM’s (if you don’t believe this reference the Blount/Ricky Davis trade).

Side note: How is the trade machine generating a -1 wins for wolves AND -3 for the clippers. It almost makes me think there is some special ZBo -5 adjustment in there.

by Pants_ on May 28, 2009 6:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

DeAndre was there last year

He was also on the board at the Chalmers pick.

by feral on May 26, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it doesn’t make too much sense for the warriors. maggette might be overpaid, but at least he’s a good basketball player. baron looked terrible last year and i don’t want to just assume that was all dunleavy, when it could just as easily be that baron has always been injury prone and now he’s getting older. he might not have been playing as hard as he could have, but i don’t want to take the risk and assume that baron at his best in 2009 is anywhere near baron at his best in 2007.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on May 26, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't forget Baron's previous work slowdown

He also completely mailed in one season with the Hornets.

by feral on May 26, 2009 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

but he was younger and less fat last time. an aging, injury prone baron davis for 4 years at about $13M per? no thanks. keep in mind, not only is there a good chance that baron will be worse than maggette for the duration of both contracts, but that he costs $2-3M more.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on May 26, 2009 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No doubt

I sure wasn’t intending to argue for Baron Davis’s being worth his contract. Not at all. The guy’s demonstrated seemingly a handful of times that he’s going to check out on coaches and teams when things aren’t going just the way he needs ’em.

Nor should the Wolves consider him. If the template we’re looking for is “Team-oriented player willing to play his heart out in the upper midwest,” the first place we look should wouldn’t be a guy who spent his entire playing career gradually forcing his way onto the Clippers’ roster. The Clippers.

by feral on May 27, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The problem with trying to move up

is that I doubt you get a shot at Rubio with just expiring contracts and the #6—you would have to include real young talent. In other words, I think you would have to be willing to discuss Kevin Love in order to move up like that. I’m a big Rubio guy, but I’m not sure I could pull that trigger.

by Eric in Madison on May 26, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I posted this above, but wanted to break it out to get some feedback

I suggested above Miler and Cardinal for Diaw, Diop, and 12. I also said I wouldn’t do it, because it’s too much salary to take on. But on reflection, I’m not sure I wouldn’t. It absolutely spends the flexibility, but…

If you could get Harden and Lawson, all of a sudden you might have something. You have a point who can run along with a wing (Diaw, 27 years old) who can run with him. Diaw also made over 40% of his 3s last year and can defend 2-3 and even potentially some 1s and 4s. Harden at the 2 can score in a number of ways, and you still have Love and Al up front with Diop as 6 extra fouls. If Lawson and Harden work out, in two years you are looking at

Lawson
Harden
Diaw
Love
Jefferson

All with experience but all still short of 30. You have a potential bench centered around Foye (if you keep him), Brewer, and Diop. Also all short of 30 in 2011. Is this a possibly contending team?

by Eric in Madison on May 26, 2009 1:56 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

A nice idea

however, not enough size/quickness on the perimeter or in the paint (Diaw would get awfully tired trying to stop five guys). If the Wolves pick Evans instead of Harden, then it’s a different story (but I hope they don’t).

by PoorDick on May 26, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really? That's not the problem I see

With Diaw and Harden and Lawson on the perimeter, quickness isn’t a real issue, and while Lawson is small, I don’t think that really hurts too much. They will be small up front, but that’s true now. They could still use a big center, who’s better than DIop in this scenario.

The problem I see is that, if the draft picks don’t work out, you are a bad team without the cap flexibility. Of course, any move that spends the flexibility is a risk

by Eric in Madison on May 26, 2009 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lawson's short and quick

Harden’s a bit undersized for the 2, and the only time anybody describes him as “quick” is when they first use the word “deceptively.”

Rookie deals offer greater upside at a better price than signing any FA in his mid to late 20s. The time to add a Diaw-type guy is after you’ve assembled 2-3 proven core stars, or one megastar. Otherwise, the money spent on the addition is wasted getting to 45 wins, and then petering back out.

If you think that Love and AlJeff are nice 2nd and 3rd bananas (and I think that’s true, by the way), then it make better sense to try to hit on a rookie to develop with them. If it doesn’t pan out by the time Jefferson’s 30, you can always sign somebody to the MLE.

by PoorDick on May 26, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with some of what you say

That Al and Love are 2nd and 3rd guys (pick your order)
That ideally you get a superstar through the draft
That you get a guy like Diaw after you have that superstar

But…I completely disagree that therefore you shouldn’t make that kind of deal. The truth is that no situation is ideal—certainly not the Wolves. You can’t wait and hope for the superstar through the draft—you could be waiting forever. You have to try to get better. Look at your last sentence:

“If it doesn’t pan out by the time Jefferson is 30…” Really? That’s 6 years from now. If it doesn’t work out by then, the team won’t exist. I mean, you can’t approach it like that.

by Eric in Madison on May 26, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was being flippant

about waiting until Jefferson turns 30.

Using up minutes and cap space to add players like Boris Diaw right now is ridiculous. Charlotte had more talent and better coaching than the Wolves had last year, and what did it get them? 35 wins. In the East.

Sorry, but the only path to a championship for this team is to keep throwing picks against the wall to see who sticks, and hoping to get lucky. Filling out the roster with has-beens and never-weres is only going to get the 8th seed in the play-offs, so that you can then get your heart stomped on by another team that has patiently developed it’s nucleus.

Or LeBron could see the many virtues of ice fishing, and come here for the MLE (and the crappies!).

by PoorDick on May 26, 2009 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok well

maybe, but the proposed trade (which I;m not sure I’d do) adds another pick to try to get that talent.

As for your concern that moves like this just create a 45 win team….I dunno, but that looks pretty good from where I sit. What’s the alternative. It seems to me that you might have been being flippant, but really that’s what you are suggesting. Stay bad as long as it takes to get lucky in the lottery and get the superstar. I can’t endorse that strategy.

by Eric in Madison on May 26, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's a question of do you want to be good, or great?

We’ve been “good”—and came up a few points short in the run for “great.” But most teams who have hurried up to improve are sorry they did so. Don’t get me wrong—I’m more impatient than you appear to be. But I know that adding more role players to roster full of role players is a quick way to salary-cap hell and a .500 record, as well as mid-round draft picks who rarely turn into anything special.

by PoorDick on May 26, 2009 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Diaw

Isn’t a bad idea. He very well could be the best passing Front-Court player in Basketball. He also had a very nice EFG this season and he has value on the defensive end of the court. This is to say nothing about his very nice Plus/Minus this year. He does have weaknesses in his game in that he doesn’t get to the line at all and is a pretty lousy rebounder for his size. The issues with him are made in this post from Queen City Hoops.

http://www.queencityhoops.com/Boris0809Review.php

This would make me lean to a no on that deal.

by Jose Cordoba on May 26, 2009 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Speaking of "lean"

didn’t he balloon up about 30 pounds before getting shipped out of Phoenix? His PER was below average, as was his WoW number.

That said, I would love a guy like that right now at age 24. At 27, not so much. By the time the Wolves can assemble a decent perimeter game, and the pre-eminent teams in the West can start falling away, Diaw will be on the decline.

Wait a minute, am I spending time arguing against a trade that would require the Wolves to eat up any salary flexibility to take on SAGANA DIOP’S CONTRACT????!!!!!

PPG 2.3
RPG 3.6
BPG 0.7

Jason Collins would be insulted!

by PoorDick on May 26, 2009 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, the Diop contract is brutal

but…you’d love a guy like Diaw at 24? So would I. It seems to me that you are letting the perfect be the enemy of the good in this debate.

Things are never perfect. I still maintain that they have to try to get better however they can, not just try to hit the jackpot.

by Eric in Madison on May 26, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just heard that phrase on TV

What show was it?

“The enemy of good is perfect.”

"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."

by biggity2bit on May 26, 2009 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno

It’s not a new phrase.

by Eric in Madison on May 26, 2009 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They've been saying that a lot

in reference to National Health Care reform.

by princelyfrank on May 26, 2009 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You just come in here

and throw down a ZING!!! and then you’re off into the night like Zorro.

by PoorDick on May 26, 2009 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Looking at the contracts

I was way too polite about this. I like the type of players you’re targeting- I just think this trade would be a lousy use of assets as you pointed out.

by Jose Cordoba on May 26, 2009 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough

I’m not sold on it either. It won’t be easy to convert the assets the team has into a contending team.

by Eric in Madison on May 26, 2009 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, I'm trying to not let "good"

be a substitute for “great.” Let’s see what The Kahn Man can do with these picks and expiring contracts. If they don’t turn into an All-Star, we’ll have a ton of overpaid role players to pick from in 2010-2013.

by PoorDick on May 26, 2009 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

See, I don't see it that way

It seems to me the choice isn’t between good or great—that one’s obvious, even if “great” takes a little longer.

It seems more complicated to me. More like, a good chance to be good, with a small chance that everything comes together and I’m better than that, vs. a liklihood that I’ll be bad, with a very, very small chance that I’ll hit the number and become great.

That’s a different matter, I think.

by Eric in Madison on May 26, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you

but there are three ways to win a championship:

1. Get lucky and draft a megastar, and then pair him with 2nd bananas and role players (the most common method).
2. Assemble a great roster of very good complimentary players, who are on the same page (like Detroit).
3. Have a very good player and assets (young players, picks, and expiring contracts), and if the opportunity presents itself, move your lesser assets for one or two players to put you over the top (like Boston).

Based on this market and this owner, #1 seems to be the best path to a championship, however unlikely that may be. But both #1 and #3 are probably more likely for the Wolves, instead of #2—which I don’t think the Wolves front office is capable of doing.

by PoorDick on May 26, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK, thanks for the back and forth

I enjoyed it. Like I say, I’m not sure I like it so much either. I just can’t see where the better trade is—the one where we get a star level player.

by Eric in Madison on May 26, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey,

You know your shizzle. And I would gladly toss one back with you on the Terrace on a warm Friday afternoon.

by PoorDick on May 26, 2009 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

path 2 isn’t just hard for a team with bad management, it’s exceptionally rare for any team no matter how well managed. for the most part, you don’t win championships without a superstar. that player doesn’t need to be lebron, but it’s almost a guarantee that he needs to be better than chauncey. i’d go so far as to call detroit’s championship a complete fluke. don’t go barking up that tree if you want to win a title.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on May 26, 2009 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What will you say if the Nugs win it this year?

Will 2 championships up your respect for Chauncey?

by princelyfrank on May 27, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

if he wins it this year, it’ll be as the second best player on that team. melo is making “the leap” this year. it’s not that i don’t respect chauncey, it’s that if he’s your best player, you aren’t likely to win a title. no disrespect to him, what he did to turn that nuggets team into a contender and convince them to play defense is amazing, but he’s not good enough to carry a team to a title.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on May 27, 2009 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And yet so many Wolves fans were wanting to sign Diop too

As recently as a couple of seasons ago, Diop was on a lot of people’s lists. Not mine, personally, but he was definitely there.

by feral on May 26, 2009 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Johnny Flynn

SNP: Did you do these metrics with Flynn as well? I read the chad ford piece today on Flynn and in it he mentions that teams such as the Kings and Wolves are both considering Flynn with the #4 and #6 picks. I know he’s short, but just curious whether he was evaluated in your tier system.

by Ebomb on May 26, 2009 2:03 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

we did...

….and he was 11th among guards:

  1. Tyreke Evans: 31.4/8.414 (39.814)
  2. Jonny Flynn: 31.825/7.285 (39.11)
  3. Gerald Henderson: 30.5/7.808 (38.308)
  4. Darren Collison: 29.8/7.757 (37.557)
  5. Willie Warren: 30.55/5.625 (36.175)
  6. Wayne Ellington: 27.3/8.828 (36.128)
  7. Jrue Holiday: 25.5/5.393 (30.893)

Writing this, I see that Jose posted the link below.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on May 26, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Flynn/Gomes

Here’s a write-up on Flynn

http://www.canishoopus.com/2009/3/22/807049/current-dogs-and-future-ho

I would want to clarify on Ryan Gomes Contract Status. My understanding is that he has a team option for 2010-2011 so this would also make him a potential expiring. Judging from his play this year- this seems no sure bet to be picked up. Am I wrong in this assesment?

by Jose Cordoba on May 26, 2009 2:53 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That is my interpretation

Unless their is something in the contract where a trade guarantees his Team Option…

by Ebomb on May 26, 2009 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's a partial guarantee....

and become fully guaranteed from June 30, 2010 if we do nothing presumably.

Still a fair deal for a role player.

by Auswolf on May 27, 2009 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

http://www.canishoopus.com/pages/contract-info

:)

$21.175 million contract with Minnesota, years 3 & 4 guaranteed for $1 million each, year 5 guaranteed for $750,000, player option on year 5, final three years are guaranteed on June 30, 2010, contract has likely incentives of $150,000 per year.

www.canishoopus.com

by wyn on May 27, 2009 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mike Conley ???

is a player that seems like he would be quite a value for 18 plus filler.

Here’s an awesome post on Conley from 3 Shades of Blue:

http://3shadesofblue.com/20090521460/memphis-grizzlies/may-2009/can-mike-conley-improve.html

by Jose Cordoba on May 26, 2009 8:11 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree

Wow, that’s quite a breakdown. Our front office should have a list of existing NBA players in their mid-20s and younger that are potentially obtainable. Who is to say that Johnny Flynn for example has more upside than Mike Conley? And at least we know Mike Conley’s floor at this point.

Conley
Brandan Wright
Anthony Randolph
Robin Lopez
Joakim Noah
DeAndre Jordan
Nick Young
Marvin Williams
Ramon Sessions
Josh Childress

Some of these guys would be harder to obtain than others, but these are some names that our front office should be putting “what are we willing to give up” trade scenarios on.

by Rascal Flatts on May 26, 2009 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did you put that list together?

Because if you did, you should be named Ass. Gen Mgr. right now. Those are exactly the kinds of players I am comfortable going after (after whom I’m comfortable going?). Low key, blue collar guys, who will either get this team back into the play-offs, or serve as excellent trade bait for a MegaStar.

by PoorDick on May 26, 2009 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or become

stars in their own right. The big men like Lopez, Noah, and Jordan are more role players, but some of the others may still be young enough that you just never know. I’m just saying that why not have it both ways: Get a guy that can help now (to varying degrees with this list), while is still young enough to grow with our team and potentially improve beyond our wildest expectations.

by Rascal Flatts on May 26, 2009 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure if Joakim Noah is low key! But he is blue collar!

If only Pekovic were able and willing to come over to the NBA right now. How I’d love to dangle Pekovic for Noah, knowing how badly Chicago could use a low-post scorer.

by Rascal Flatts on May 26, 2009 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Were you the one

who was against my Noah-Hinrich-Deng for AlJeff-Miller-Foye-Smith trade? Because that trade makes both teams better, but is just dicey enough (with the injuries to Jefferson and Deng) to give a hesitant GM enough cover to nix the deal.

Nevertheless, I think we’d have do better than just dangle Pekovic for Noah—but I’d be willing to go that extra mile/pick/player.

by PoorDick on May 26, 2009 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I remember arguing against that one

Although it was too to come out against in the end. My concern had to do with Deng’s injuries and contract. I agree with Poor Dick- this seems awfully light for Noah. As Good a scorer as Pekovic might be- the weaknesses in his game have DX projecting him as a high quality backup center.

by Jose Cordoba on May 26, 2009 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't think I saw it

but now that you bring it up, yes, I would be against that trade. That seems like way too much for us to give up.

In terms of Pek for Noah, Tyrus Thomas and Pek actually compliment each other a lot better than Noah and Thomas. I just think it’s a much more synergistic pairing than Noah and Thomas, where basically neither is capable of creating their own offense. It’s not gonna happen anyway due to Pek not coming over for at least another year, if ever.

by Rascal Flatts on May 27, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wolves missed the boat...

on the Chicago trade.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Ai6ivegZJGYcLn5NRisjvfs5nYcB?slug=aw-tradebuzz021709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Since OKC nabbed Thabo for the 26th pick, it is reasonable to assume he could have been had by including the 28th with BC and Collins. That trade (BC, Collins, 28th for Hinrich, Thabo, filler), I do all day…

by Minneapleseed on May 27, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think Chicago and Minnesota are done talking . . .

They are perfect trade partners, in that Chicago is ready to make a run, and Minnesota is still rebuilding. The Bulls also have two offensively-challenged big men and too many point guards (the opposite of the Wolves). Finally, if the Bulls intend to re-sign Gordon (and they say they do), they need the cap room provided by getting rid of Hinrich. I’m a fan of Kirk’s, but not alone, at his salary. And the Bulls proved they can go a long way with Salmons and without Deng, but eventually they need a low-post scorer not named Brad Miller.

by PoorDick on May 27, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Those are exactle the kind of players

whom I would be comfortable going after … no?

Beater of the early Thabeet drum ... but not so much of the late one

by Wim (Belgium) on May 27, 2009 6:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Another player that would be high on the list

Would be the loser of the DJ/Felton death match down in Charlotte.

by Jose Cordoba on May 26, 2009 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I, too, believe a corpse would be an upgrade for this team.

Felton scares me in that his TS%/eFG% this past year eerily mirror Bassy’s. Not to say that they’re the same. Felton is better in other ways, but you always have to look twice at a player who has never had a PER higher than 14.2 in his career (and that was his rookie year). Solid assist numbers and he’s a better defender than our current options.

He’d be nice as long as we had a good outside shooter to pair him with, ’cause his offense has shown no signs of being better than what we currently have.

by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on May 27, 2009 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It should be pointed out

Felton’s an All-Defensive team type defender. No one would ever say this about Bassy. This is where his value comes from mostly.

by Jose Cordoba on May 27, 2009 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree.

I’m just mentioning that if we could snag Felton, we’d really need to focus on getting a strong shooter to pair him with. He can pass and he can defend, but he can’t shoot.

As Meat Loaf put it so eloquently: Two out of three ain’t bad.

by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on May 27, 2009 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did we all...

completely give up on Miller as a shooter after this year, or are we willing to write it off as a fluke/protest year and hope he comes back as M33M again next year?

by Minneapleseed on May 27, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have not given up hope. . .

. . .that the marksman will be back in the form of Mile Miller. If Jefferson comes back and with a year under Loves belt, that right there should make us more potent on offense.

Sometimes the obvious is hidden.

by frankenhoops on May 27, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The reasoning is...

… I don’t think Miller is a long term part of this team. What happens next year, to me, is rather trivial. We obviously want to be better, but we’re not going to be a solid playoff team. That’s another 2-3 years off at least. I don’t think Miller will be sticking around that long.

As such, we’d need a long term shooting solution to fit with Felton. If we tried to make a move for Felton, it’d be because we wanted him to be a part of the long term solution at point.

by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on May 27, 2009 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would add...

Marcin Gortat to the list as well… Signing him would hedge against Pekovic staying in Europe and give the Wolves an idea if someone like Pekovic will fit since he and Gortat are similar players in style on offense. Gortat brings D to the table as well.

Maybe not a sexy choice, but I think ’Sota fans would embrace the big Polish brute.

P.S. I’m a bit biased because Gortat is from the same city in Poland (Lodz) as my family.

by Minneapleseed on May 27, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What I really like about Gortat is that he brings legit size and complementary skills, noteably a nice jumper. He’s not going to single handedly solve our D, but he seems capable of blocking some shots and he has the size to play solid post D. On top of that, if you’re set on building a team around one of the best post scorers in the league, having two talented pick and pop bigs to put next to him is a great place to start. If we could land Gortat, I think we’d be a competent pick and roll PG (as well as some athletic defensive wings) away from becoming a vastly improved team.

Imaginge Steph Curry running pick and rolls with Love and Gortat, either raining J’s or drawing defenders away from Al allowing him to go 1 on 1 down low.

by Xand1 on May 27, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

gortat is going to be high on a lot of shopping lists this summer. i’d be surprised if the magic were able to keep him, and with the wolves cap space and need for a solid center, this could be his landing spot. they’ll need to bid more than the mle to get him, but that’s what cap space is for, right?

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on May 27, 2009 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I love the idea of Gortat

He has looked great in his limited minutes in the playoffs. He blocked Lebron’s shot twice in one game, and he can shoot the midrange jumper too.

by princelyfrank on May 27, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No flipping way

that the Griz give up Conley for the 18th pick and change. And if they did, Portland would be on the phone with Memphis offering much more, if only to give their Frah-JEEL-Ay young foul machine of a center a security blanket at point guard.

by PoorDick on May 26, 2009 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe

Players like Gomes and Smith would potentially have appeal to Memphis. The Wolves also could take back a bad contract in Buckner or Marko. I know this is funny- but if you consider Conley a player worth obtaining it’s not as silly as it sounds.

The assests Portland can offer are Outlaw (Expiring), Sergio (Blah), Bayless (I think a better fit in Portland than Memphis) along with a lower draft pick. So it wouldn’t shock me if Memphis wasn’t as down with Portland’s assests as we think.

by Jose Cordoba on May 26, 2009 9:24 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Plus!

Hopefully there’s still some bad blood between these two teams from the Darius Miles deal, and it would prevent a reasonable trade from getting done.

by PoorDick on May 26, 2009 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

FA's to think about

Has anyone pondered the possibility of seeking out (& probably overpaying) Marcin Gortat from the Magic? He would seem to be the big Euro-center we are waiting for and he’s already here. Would be a nice complement inside. Also, the obtainable guards listed include Ramon Sessions from the Bucks. Again, it would cost some money, but he would be an upgrade without losing any key personnel.

by ogishkemuncie on May 27, 2009 6:54 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

He's been a popular...

…topic here of late.

The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on May 27, 2009 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I love the idea of Sessions

Since it appears:

1. The Bucks are going to be cost-conscious this summer
2. He’s young, but experienced, and has a body of work on which to be judged
3. He could get lost in the Kidd/Felton/Andre Miller chase-for-a-veteran
4. he has a high PER, and was the 8th-rated PG in WP48 at Wages of Wins last season

It would also allow the Wolves to draft a 2 with the 6th pick, trade the 18th for value (or draft a young wing), and then choose Calathes later on.

Gortat seems to be a much better compliment to AlJeff and Love than Pekovich. In fact, the Wolves and Orlando should just swap their Euro Centers. I’m interested to see how Gortat does defensively against front lines like the Lakers have, assuming both teams get to the finals.

by PoorDick on May 27, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sessions is an excellent target

It will be interesting to see how much he gets.

Is it just me, or is the NBA off-season somewhat awkward? Say you are the Wolves, and you decide that Ramon Sessions is your major target this off-season. You want to draft a 2 guard to compliment him, but your main target there, James Harden, is gone. Now your BPA on your board is Brandon Jennings, and the available 2 guards aren’t what you are looking for because they can’t shoot 3s, (Evans), and that’s something Sessions doesn’t do. Do you take the BPA, or reach for a “fit”? They problem is, you can’t be sure you can even get Sessions, since you can’t even talk to free agents prior to the draft.

My point is that since the NBA restricts certain types of player movement until a particular date, it’s hard to execute a plan. I understand why they do this—you can’t very well start free agency before the Finals end, and the draft comes soon thereafter. You don’t want to delay the draft because of summer leagues and the like. Still, it creates some problems.

by Eric in Madison on May 27, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is really odd, and quite frustrating now that you mention it. It definitely seems like it would make more sense to allow teams to go into the FA market first for the reasons you listed above…

My question is: couldn’t they push the draft back a month or something? Is there any actual reason to do it so early? I guess there are summer leagues, but after those games end there’s like a 3 month period of complete nothingness, so what’s stopping them from bumping back the SL as well? It seems to me that doing so would help teams execute their visions/plans and assemble talent, and isn’t that good for the whole league?

by Xand1 on May 27, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I think they could push the draft back

and run summer leagues in August, not July, but I’m sure teams want to bring their draftees in as quickly as possible and get them working.

…Of course if the Wolves don’t have a coach by then, what difference will it make….

by Eric in Madison on May 27, 2009 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe the NBA…

doesn’t want to compete with the NFL pre-season?

by swheatle on May 27, 2009 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not a Sessions fan...

I think his raw numbers look good, but game by game is a different story. He is almost an all or nothing player. His assist numbers were spectacular during the “garbage” part of the season, but all over the board through the meat of it. He only racked up 103 of 452 assists in the months of Dec and Jan (3.3 apg) while putting up 73 in 7 April games (10.4 apg), long after the season was done for Milwaukee.

He had the same trend the year before as well. I’d pass…

by Minneapleseed on May 27, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Weird.

Were his minutes wildly different during these months, or only his production?

by princelyfrank on May 27, 2009 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good points on that

it’s a combination of the logistics of the season, with Stern’s wish to keep the league in the news for as much of the year as possible. Also, don’t sleep on selling the “hope” to season ticket holders who are considering whether or not to renew their value-price $200 per seat per game packages.

by PoorDick on May 27, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of bringing in Felton if he’s available and we don’t get a stud PG in the draft. From what I can see, at least according to 82games, he still played a chunk of his minutes at the 2 spot where, big surprise, he struggled. As a PG, his #‘s seem to be quite solid. He has his faults, especially his eFG%, but we’ve seen that the PG is a hard position to learn time and time again. He is only 24, and has shown flashes of multiple skills as well as decent consistency despite not being in a great situation. If he learns better shot selection and can revert back to being a halfway decent 3pt shooter like he was in his first two years in the league, he could become a very productive player. Not sure what it would take to get him, though. Any ideas?

Also, love the Gortat idea. Bring in the Polish Hammer!

by Xand1 on May 27, 2009 10:13 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Sessions/Gortat

The issue is going to be where you find the Cap Space to sign these guys. In all probability these would be sign and trade guys.

by Jose Cordoba on May 27, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gortat could probably be had for cheap. I’m not sure on actual numbers, but I think he makes less than a million now and is fed up with his minute situation. I’m a little rusty on our cap situation what with all the upcoming movement, but it seems like we should either have up to the MLE if we’re over the cap or a bit of room to work with if we’re underneath, so maybe we could get it done by flat out signing him as he’s a UFA. I’d have to double check the #‘s though, so you may be right. In regards to Sessions/Felton, you’re definitely right that it would have to be a S&T situation.

by Xand1 on May 27, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yup...

he is only making $715,000 this year. One would think doubling that might be enough to get it done, which would only cost half the MLE or could be accomplished by denouncing the rights to Sheldon and Carney to get a deal done under the cap.

by Minneapleseed on May 27, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Doubt he could be had for cheap

It’s like Birdman Andersen. These mobile bigs that can defend are really, really valuable. And these two guys are getting big-time exposure on a huge stage. I really think Gortat would cost us. Why wouldn’t OKC go after him hard, assuming they don’t draft Thabeet? That being said, I would totally be on board with going after him; I just think we’d have to be willing to pay a premium for a mobile 7-footer that can rebound and defend. We could definitely sell him and his agent on more minutes since he would play some C with Al shifting to PF and in some cases be a situational starting C against Bynum-Gasol, Oden-Aldridge, etc. with Love being our 6th man off the bench.

by Rascal Flatts on May 27, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is true, although he isn’t getting big minutes so it’s not like he’s blowing up out there. Still, it’s probably safe to say that if we’ve noticed him, other teams have as well. That said, I think we have might have a leg up for two reasons: 1) we have an obvious need for a big so we could promise him minutes and 2) he is apparently close with Hanny. You never know, Hanny might end up being actually being useful!

by Xand1 on May 27, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The close with Hanny thing is just weird. I know

it came up here before, but I don’t remember the connection. Kinda funny though.

by Rascal Flatts on May 27, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wish I had more details, but I distinctly remember Pete bringing it up on air during a Wolves vs. Magic game. From what I gather, Hanny is close enough to know both Gortat and his wife on a personal level. Who knows..

by Xand1 on May 27, 2009 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then they have to consider...

Whether he’s a starting-caliber player. If that’s the case, then he’d be worth a $4 mil/year deal or more.

by pagingstanleyroberts on May 27, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That wouldn't be a big problem...

First off, neither of these guys are going to get above $4 mil/year, considering the economy. They could use up part of the MLE for one of them. The Wolves also have enough contracts across a wide spectrum of salaries to make a move if necessary.

by pagingstanleyroberts on May 27, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Teams like OKC, Memphis, and Detroit

Also need bigs and have actual Cap Space to make offers beyond the MLE. He would be an awesome fit in OKC. I think OKC or Detroit would be the most likely destination for him.

by Jose Cordoba on May 27, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i’d guess that gortat commands $7-8M this summer and immediately steps in and becomes a high quality nba starter. there’d be a lot more chatter about him if he weren’t playing behind dwight howard.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on May 27, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

From who?

that’s a lot these days, and there aren’t too many teams with cap space to make that kind of offer. I doubt he gets more than the MLE, though he might have several offers at that level.

by Eric in Madison on May 27, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

detroit, okc, toronto and the wolves seem to be the likely bidders. you don’t think any of those teams would offer a little over the MLE to land a quality starting center? if you pay less than $9M, you’re getting a good deal; if you only need to offer $6M or so to land gortat, you got a steal.

heart of a champion, will of the warrior.

by cap'n hack on May 27, 2009 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Keep in mind this is an economy where a guy like Sessions is rumored to be signable for around the MLE (maybe a little more). That’s just speculation, true, but those are big numbers for a guy with a very limited body of work. I like Gortat’s potential quite a bit, and he’s pretty young at 24, for a contract starting at 6-7 per year is bigtime change for a guy in his position. I think it’s more likely that he signs something in the range of 3 years, $10 million in a situation where he can get minutes in order to show what he can do before people throw big money at him. If a team really feels like gambling I could see it happening (OKC was mentioned above, which is a good call), but it’s definitely not a given.

Needless to say, this is going to be a really interesting offseason. I’m not looking forward to that maddening downtime between the summer league and the start of the season. All you want to do is watch your rookies and new players, but it’s 85 degrees and the middle of summer, so you just feel wrong wishing November would hurry up and get here..

by Xand1 on May 27, 2009 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gortat is a restricted free Agent

If someone signs him for 3 year, $10 Million, Orlando will immediately match. Somoeone is going to give him more than the MLE for 4-5 years so that they either get the player, or force Orlando to pay a bench player.

by Ebomb on May 27, 2009 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is he? I haven’t seen that anywhere.. my salary info might be off. If that’s the case, then obviously you can throw landing him for a reasonable offer out the window.

by Xand1 on May 27, 2009 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Overpaying for current backups…

has messed up several franchises. How often do these signings work?

by swheatle on May 27, 2009 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

good point...

They have to be reasonable about their offer. Figure out what they think he’s worth, overpay by 10% if necessary, but don’t go any further than that. They can’t give him a Diop or Adonal Foyle or Mark Blount deal if they don’t think he can be the 3rd big in a rotation with Jefferson and Love. On the other hand, Gortat is 24 and backs up Dwight Howard, which is different than backing up, say, Erick Dampier.

by pagingstanleyroberts on May 27, 2009 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

“In this economy (hehe)” I wouldn’t sign anyone aside from a surefire stud or a very known quantity (if it’s a reasonable deal) to a contract longer than 3 years.

Re: Gortat, I’m not too familiar with Orlando’s cap situation, so I don’t want to talk out of my butt, but if I’m reading this correctly it looks like Hedo can opt this summer. If that’s the case, this might be a situation where Lewis’ absurd deal comes back to bite them in the ass b/c resigning Hedo would probably push them over the lux. So, I’m wondering if something like a 3 year deal at around 4-4.5 million per be enough to pry him away if Hedo opts out?

And I don’t know why, but I feel compelled to bring the focus back on Rashard’s contract for a minute. Consider this: He will be making 2-3 mill more per year than Dwight Howard through 2012/13. Holy crap.

by Xand1 on May 28, 2009 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But Rashard is required to create their scheme

They have Howard down low, and with Rashard as an athletic 4 that can shoot the 3, they can surround Dwight with 4 shooters. No other PF in the league offers the same skill set as Rashard. You might think the magic overpayed; however, without him, their not the same team.

Consider that Lewis has played 70 minutes more than any other Magic player in the Clevland series.

Consider that they should be able to get players at the 1-3 who can D up and make three point baskets for relatively cheap salaries. Lewis and Howard are the cornerstones and the rest of their lineup is replaceable. I think the Lewis contract was brilliant, because it was made with a solid plan in place on the type of team they were building, and the coaching staff has executed that plan to perfection. Bravo!

by Ebomb on May 28, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kudos to them for sticking to a plan, and it’s great that they’re doing well in the playoffs, but none of that excuses the fact that he’ll be making 22 million in 2012/2013. That’s KG money. For their sake they better hope he brings them a championship, because there’s almost no way that doesn’t become a massive burden in a few years. Realistically he should be making 5+ million less each year (and likely could have been signed for that much).

I understand the logic behind signing a player like him, but not the unecessary price. There’s no reason to pay a guy top 10 money who’s not a top 10 player. No one else was going to offer him anywhere near that much. To each his own I guess.

by Xand1 on May 28, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

True...

Orlando can match, but they are already going to have to find money to keep Turkgolu. I wonder if they can keep both or if someone will be able to scoop him (Gortat) up. I also wonder what the biggest increase in salary has been. The man makes under $1M, can he really expect a pay raise to the $6-7M range? Is there precedent for this with other deals recently?

welcometoloudcity is all over the Gortat situation as well
http://www.welcometoloudcity.com/2009/5/6/866148/free-agent-targets-marcin-gortat,
 so I guess a bidding war could drive the price up, but how high…

by Minneapleseed on May 27, 2009 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A bidding war

among team bloggers.

I would guess the best precedent of going from relative “poverty” to tens of millions is probably Gilbert Arenas.

by PoorDick on May 27, 2009 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Funny...

that did sound a little silly, a bidding war among team bloggers. I guess I was just trying point out that if other teams fans are aware of Gortat, I’m sure the FO is too, thus a bidding war between teams could happen.

Gil is an interesting example in that he was an elite player/brink all star when he got his extension. Either way, that wasn’t very good reasoning on my part (he only makes X so should be happy earning Y) as this is the NBA and teams overpay all the time…

by Minneapleseed on May 28, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the other thing...

To factor in will be Orlando’s other contract situations. They have a veteran backup in Tony Battie (beaten out by Gortat but still useful) and have overpaid for Rashard Lewis and Jameer Nelson to this point.

by pagingstanleyroberts on May 27, 2009 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

DX Podcast

I listened to Givony’s latest last night where he had some interesting thoughts on the Wolves

1. Derozan not a fit at all for what this team needs. Especially if you plan on playing Brewer.
2. We need a shot-creator like Harden,Jennings, Evans, or Curry
3. Thinks Curry could be considered as high as 4
4. Holiday and Flynn could be considered by the Wolves

by Jose Cordoba on May 27, 2009 10:46 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Interesting take

1. I could see why DeRozan wouldn’t be a good fit per se for this squad, especially since he seems to excel in the mid range area, having him at the 2 would just further draf the defense towards the basket clogging up the paint for Jefferson and Love. Foye and Miller will be our only outside shooting threats this season which isn’t enough shooters.

2. Watching Orlando play this playoffs has been amazing. I was surprised when they signed Rashard to that big money deal, but an athletic 4 who can shoot the 3 gives them 4 players on the floor at all times that can hit an outside shot. There whole offense is geared around having 4 shooters on the floor at all times, which is why Lewis has played almost 70 more minutes than other Magic player in the postseason because his presence is required for their system. Their system of 4 shooters has turned a previously excellent defensive team in Clevalnd mystified becuase unless you can cover Dwight Howard down low with one guy like Perkins could do, the minute you double dwight one of the 4 shooters is going to get an open look. If Al can develop any semblance of a passing game he can be just as effective as he requires a double team in the post. I guess the point I am trying to make is that what this team needs is SHOOTERS and as much as I hate to admit, I’m starting to drink the CanisKoolAid and become more sold on Curry because even if his PG skills fail to translate, adding another shooter to the floor is not going to be a liability.

3. I hope not.

4. Holiday can’t shoot, but can defend. Watching his brother Justin play the last few years in Washington I see the same shooting stroke runs in the family and Justin can’t shoot either. Holliday is intriguing due to his measurables, but too much of a risk. How many PG’s fail because they can’t hit an outside shot?

by Ebomb on May 27, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I find it interesting

that there is so much concern by outside experts – Givony in this case – about how certain players fit with our squad. You mean the squad that lost about 120 games in the past two seasons and has probably two starter-worthy players on it, but no #1 option? Orlando has Dwight Howard. He is truly a centerpiece that you can architect a team around because he can anchor the paint defensively and offensively. Orlando is a great example of finding the right complimentary pieces and system around a singular talent. For all of Jefferson’s advanced moves and soft touch in the paint, Howard is still a more effective paint presence due to his sheer power and athleticism. Dunks normally are a higher % shot than right handed push shots and mid-range jumpers. And defensively there is no comparison. Ahhh, the Al Jefferson dilemma. He’s not quite a build-around type of guy, yet he sort of forces us to find players that will hopefully fit with him, which could potentially lead to a missed opportunity to add a real franchise player to this squad. I’m not saying DeRozan is a can’t-miss prospect, but I would never rule him out simply because he may not be a great fit with Al Jefferson.

by Rascal Flatts on May 27, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just To Clarify

Givony was more against Derozan on the basis of pairing him with Brewer. This might be a totally different issue. I will say as Curry backer- part of the appeal would come in how he could potentially open the floor for Al in ways that Derozan can’t. I also think he brings more value for the reasons Givony indicated.

by Jose Cordoba on May 27, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brewer is not good enough..

to base choices off of. I anticipate DeRozan being much better than Brewer. Don’t get me wrong, I like Brewer’s game, but until he learns to put the ball in the hole, he is just a defensive specialist and very easy to replace.

by mnjayhawk on May 27, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Derozan worries me horribly.

He can jump super high and has a nice-looking midrange jumper. What’s the difference between him and other high-jumping athletes who never make an impact like Joe Alexander? I’m not saying Derozan will be that bad (his excellent rebound at least demonstrates he’s paying attention out there), but Joe Alexander-style cluelessness is what worries me.

by princelyfrank on May 27, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not saying I would pick him,

Just that I wouldn’t rule him out because of Brewer.

by mnjayhawk on May 27, 2009 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I actually listened to the podcast

True, Givony referenced the Wolves’ need for a shot creator, but our needs are numerous: We need shooters (Curry), we need shot creators (Evans), we need guys that create shots for others (Jennings, Rubio), we need length and athleticism (DeRozan), we need defensive-oriented bigs (Thabeet), we could use a shotblocking 3 (Daye), blah, blah, blah. My only point is we don’t know what DeRozan’s ceiling is and he may very well become an elite shot creator. I wouldn’t rule him out based on his fit on a squad that has so many gaping holes.

by Rascal Flatts on May 27, 2009 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

other then a PF this team has so meny holes all over the court that we really can’t rule out any player simply because they wouldn’t fit with an other player. we need talent first, then figure out what the core will be and build around that.

Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?

by the Real Thor on May 27, 2009 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like Daye for the 18th pick.

We could use somebody who is actually oversized for their position. There should be some attractive options at 18, between Daye, Mullens, and whoever is left from this year’s generous helping of point guards.

by princelyfrank on May 27, 2009 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Totally agree that #18 is a good pick

and could turn out to be a better NBA player than #6 in this year’s crapshoot. Teague has an NBA-ready game if he can figure out how to run an offense; Daye has almost an ideal skill-set to to play the 3 with Jeff and Love – he can block shots AND hit the 3-pointer; Lawson would be a dream come true if he somehow slipped to #18; Holiday could end up being a cheaper, younger version of Kirk Hinrich; Maynor could be the next Sam Cassell. James Johnson, B.J. Mullens, and the list goes on. There will be a very compelling player available at #18.

by Rascal Flatts on May 28, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is the post supposed to read...

potential cap holds on Sheldon and Carney, not Sheldon and Collins. I believe Collins is an UFA and Carney has a team option…

Just trying to clarify contract status for next year. Thanks for the excellent write up, it is certainly bringing out the best from the peeps on the site!!

by Minneapleseed on May 27, 2009 11:09 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

i'm pretty sure it's sheldon and collins...

….both have cap holds until they sign with another squad. let me look into this a bit more.

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by Stop-n-Pop on May 27, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

cool...

Thanks. So what do we do with Carney? Pick up the option, let him walk, use him in a trade? I’m sure there is a part iii to this post and I look forward to that discussion!!

by Minneapleseed on May 27, 2009 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

they're all free agents this summer

carney’s option was not exercised earlier this year, and neither was shelden’s. those two, along with ollie and jason collins are all unrestricted free agents and therefore have cap holds. the free agent rights can be renounced, of course, thereby eliminating the free agent cap hold.

i’ll have to try and find out what the status of sprewell, oliver miller, sam mitchell, kirk snyder and michael doleac’s free agent rights are. we aren’t likely to have any cap space until next year, so there’s no real reason to renounce anyone’s rights until that’s the case.

www.canishoopus.com

by wyn on May 27, 2009 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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