James Harden for example has elected not to conduct any interviews with teams drafting outside the top five, canceling a scheduled interview at the Westin Hotel with the Cleveland Cavaliers for example. He also reportedly will not be conducting any competitive workouts with anyone anywhere in the draft process. A source close to him tells us he feels very good about the possibility of being selected by Oklahoma City or Washington, and for right now is not planning on visiting the Minnesota Timberwolves.
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Boo.
We’re not a “lower team.” We’re drafting sixth. And we could make a trade. This turns me off of Harden to learn that he’s a butthole.
Agents are "buttholes," and they're well-paid for being that way
This isn’t about the Wolves, or anyway we can’t infer that based on these few scraps.
Agents at this point in the process are all about protecting their clients’ value. They don’t want them to slide, they want them to climb, et cetera. Harden’s agent is just trying to establish that the kid’s top-tier talent. Five is just a nice, round number.
This happens every year. Given the new rules about group workouts, it matters even less this time.
Further evidence, incidentally, that it's not a Wolves thing:
He also cancelled with the Cavaliers. Do we think he wouldn’t want to play with LeBron?
A Blessing In Disguise
I think Harden is a clone of Foye. Perhaps a better shooter, not as good at getting to the rack and a defensive liability against top tier SGs. He looks small to me and may struggle against legit SGs who can back him down or shoot over him (Kobe, Roy, Kevin Martin). I’d rather see us take a shot on DeRozan who has the potential to be a superstar.
Totally agree…too short and not terribly athletic had me scared. Undersized bench scorers are a dime a dozen. Hell we could bring back McCants for peanuts if we want that.
Hold on
He is 2 inches taller and a much better scorer than McCan’t was in UNC. He has a nice game…think lefty Roy
Ignorance is bliss
Foye Shot 41% his last season at Villanova, Harden average over 50% in his two seasons in college. Harden also drew free throws and finished in transition better than all the Wing players in this draft. Harden is nothing like Foye.
It's probably just like
how he’s “deceptively quick”—he’s also “deceptively interested in playing for the Timberwolves.”
by PoorDick on May 29, 2009 5:38 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
They probably read Chad Ford's Mock Draft 2.0
and saw that he fell out of the top 5. Gotta raise that stock!
Some measurements out
according to draft express.
Harden: 6’4"/6’.5.25 (NO SHOES/SHOES)
Evans exactly the same as Harden
Curry 6’2/6’3.25
DeRozan 6’5.5/6’6.5
It’s amazing to me that these guys seem to have 1.25 inches worth of shoes, but there you go. Others listed at DE.
by Eric in Madison on May 29, 2009 9:31 AM CDT reply actions
Wow that’s really interesting.
Assuming Harden has somewhere near the rumored 6’11 wingspan then you can scratch questions about his size. Everyone thought Evans was going to be huge, but it turns out he’s likely to be the exact same as Harden (both apparently have 6’11 wingspans). Interesting.
I also really like that Curry is a legit 6’3. That type of size/length makes it easier for me to accept that he can at least be OK defensively, and he should have no problem getting his shot off either. Thanks for the numbers Eric.
Curry!!!
Curry is also quick as hell and from all the reports I’ve seen he’s been the biggest revelation at the camp. Please, please, please draft the guy. Here is the link:
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Measurements-released-3236
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I can't believe these numbers
According to this site, Harden, Evans and BLAKE GRIFFEN have the same wing span… REALLY!?!?
pretty much..
….the same standing reach too.
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Color Me Skeptical
Either Blake Griffen is an undersized bust waiting to happen, or the guards have overly friendly tailors. I’ll need to see the camp measurements before I believe any of these.
What’s so hard to believe? Historically there are always plenty of guards with freakish wingspans – Eric Gordon and McCants both had 6’10+ wingspans, and there’s never a shortage of stubby armed bigs. For example, Kevin love has a 6’11 3/4 wingspan, which is only an inch longer than mcCants, despite being like 6.5 inches taller.
We’re all snowflakes, y’know? Some snowflakes just have longer arms.
You got any links to these accounts of who is looking good at the camps?
by princelyfrank on May 29, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions
there was one..
…on espn’s draft page. it’s a video.
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here's a link to the article
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=PreDraftTour-090529
Four players really seemed to catch the attention of the GMs I spoke with after the event, with UCLA’s Jrue Holiday garnering the most attention. He was the biggest point guard of the top group and seemed to tower over several of the smaller guys on the floor.
During one 3-on-2 full-court drill, Holiday looked like a power forward running on the wing. And while his size was impressive, so was his game. He was hitting his jump shot, finishing with both hands and showing versatility and an excellent handle.
“I was skeptical when I read the report out of IMG about Holiday,” one NBA executive said. “Now I get it. That’s the kid we fell in love with in high school. He was really impressive.”
• Curry put on a shooting show — no surprise there — but many GMs commented that he really looked like he belonged when he participated in a number of ballhandling and full-court drills. If Curry can prove to teams that he can play point guard, he’ll go somewhere between No. 5 and 13. If he can’t, he could slip out of the lottery. The results of the first day of camp had to be encouraging.
• Flynn continues to generate buzz with his combination of speed and power — even if he was the shortest guy on the floor. Every GM I spoke with now sees him as a lottery pick, with many projecting him in the Top 10.
• Maynor also generated some significant buzz with his decision-making and shooting.
“He looked like he was totally in control out there. There’s a smoothness to his game that I really like,” an NBA head coach said.
• Australia’s Patrick Mills also turned some heads with his speed. It will be interesting to see who wins the three-quarter sprint drill on Friday. Mills, Collison and Lawson are the likeliest contenders for the fastest player in the draft — all three guys are a blur.
• Not everyone impressed, however. Lawson continues to take a little bit of a beating. His small stature and so-so performance in the combine didn’t help dispel a growing chorus of scouts who seem to feel that his game won’t translate to the pros.
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Here's another
http://www.nba.com/timberwolves/fans/draft_central_2009.html
Jrue Holiday was clearly the biggest and most well-built player in the PG group, and he showed teams why he’s been one of the fastest rising players in the Draft. Holiday looked very explosive finishing around the basket in the transition drills, looking equally adept at dunking or throwing in floaters with either hand.
Stephen Curry looked smooth, smart and extremely talented in pretty much everything he did. He appeared to have the most polish of any point guard in attendance, except possibly Jonny Flynn, who also stood out.
One of the least-known prospects in Chicago, Rodrigue Beaubois, seemed to show some of the best natural tools. He was arguably the quickest end-to-end player, and also shot the ball fairly well.
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The reach numbers are there too
Harden and Evans and Henderson all have 6-10/6-11 reaches, similar to big guys like Hansborough and Griffin.
Curry is at 6-3 reach, similar to most of the other point guards.
by Eric in Madison on May 29, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions
earl clark...
…is huge. and flynn and mills are midgets.
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I noticed Clark's size as well
much bigger than I anticipated. It actually makes him somewhat more intriguing, though there’s no way he gets to 18, and I’m not interested enough to trade up for him at much cost.
Flynn is small, but one of the small points—Flynn or Lawson—is going to go in the lottery. It appears that Flynn is ahead of Lawson right now.
by Eric in Madison on May 29, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Flynn at least has a 6'4 wingspan...
Lawson’s is barely 6’0. Teague and Holiday at 6’7 wingspans and DaJuan Summers over 7’ are intriguing numbers. Not that they should be drafted because of wingspan, but it’d seal the deal for me if all other things were similar.
by pagingstanleyroberts on May 29, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Very interesting that Harden has a higher standing reach than DeRozan. Everyone had DD pegged as having protypical size, but Harden has longer arms and a higher reach. Can’t wait to see the athletic markers.
Other interesting notes: Darren Collison has good size at 6’1.5" with a 6’3 wingspan, and Austin Daye is seriously long. He’s about as skinny as Brewer but has the same standing reach as Big Al.
daye...
…and clark are 2 guys you just look at and wonder why they aren’t better than they are. both of them won the genetic lotto when it comes to basketball. daye will be an interesting pick. you can see the talent there and you’d hope it would only be a matter of time before he gets it.
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Goes to show how much of a mental game is truly is. Look at a guy like Ray Allen: he’s like 6’4.5, MAYBE 6’5" in shoes and was never much above probably an “average” athlete by NBA terms, but we all know how good he was. Why? Skills and smarts. How many superior athletes and physical specimens never became 1/5th the player of Ray? Gerald Green, Tony Allen etc. etc. It’s something that gets lost amid all the hype of verticals and wingspans and all that stuff, but that’s why I like Curry and harden so much. Those guys flat out get it done.
Another quick note
Jrue Holliday has good size and the best reach and wingspan of any of the pure point guards (excluding Evans).
by Eric in Madison on May 29, 2009 10:13 AM CDT reply actions
I have to admit
That Holliday is growing on me a little bit more each day. If we’re to gamble on upside with a PG, he’d be my pick. I think UCLA’s system and the position he played really limited his ability to show what he can do. I doubt he’ll be there at 18, but I’d consider a reasonable trade up to get him.
Having said that, a Harden + Curry draft would be fantastic for us. Both those guys are ballers, and while we would be a little weak on the athleticism aspect, I think you can make up for that with smart players who know how to make a system and scheme work for them (think Utah). Plus I believe that with Harden and Curry helping to run things (along with Bassy and Love) will help guys like Brewer and Rhino be even better.
I think, with every sports team, there’s a critical number of guys needed who know where they’re supposed to be and how the game is supposed to be played, and once you have that critical number guys suddenly everyone’s game elevates. Adding Harden and/or Curry helps us get to that point.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on May 29, 2009 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I've been a huge Holiday fan all season...
… despite his spotty numbers at UCLA. He just has the size, body, composure, and look of a high-quality NBA point guard—and one who can really play defense. Others are now coming around to Holiday as a prospect and it looks like he’ll be a lottery pick. If he could be had in the low lottery, I think it would be worthwhile to trade Mike Miller and number 18 for Holiday, especially if we drafted Harden or DeRozen at number six. A Harden/Holiday backcourt could be very good for a long time.
I would love to move up and get Holiday. I think he’s going to be a really good all-around PG. I think his game could be a bit like Rondo’s – not a #1/2 scorer, but capable of doing pretty much everything else – defense, rebounding, slashing and setting guys up etc.. A Harden + Holiday back court would fill so many needs it’s not funny. We would have a consistent scorer and length and athleticism at both positions.
I should stop getting my hopes up, but it’s tough not to when there are so many opportunities (via combos of players) to upgrade our biggest weakness.
Holliday
I love the idea of Harden + Curry, but I also love Harden + Holliday. Of the two, I think Curry will score more consistently (see: Wally World) and with a higher average. But that’s not to say that Holliday won’t be good either. I think the Rondo comparison is a good one, in that I can see Holliday becoming a pesky PG—gets 10-14 pts. a night, 6-7 assists, 4-5 boards, a couple steals, and harassing defense, and every now and then he’ll go off for 30 points and 12 assists.
The strengths of his abilities would only be helped by playing next to a Harden or Curry type scorer—someone proficient at killing you from the outside—opening up the middle to get it to Love or Al.
Who knows? If the Wolves can swing a Washington trade, perhaps they’ll draft Holliday and Harden over Curry? Ain’t predraft speculation great?!
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
It’s a blast, even if I have to restrain myself from just geeking out over all the possible combos. I just see so much room for growth with the guard prospects available in this draft that it’s hard not to get excited. Especially with these measurements showing that there is no shortage of excellent size and length available.
Harden and Curry would be a lot of fun, although I would prefer to have an athlete next to both of those guys, which is why I like a combo like Holiday/Harden or Evans/Curry better. Of course, talking about those types of combos is kinda pointless unless we can nab that Washington pick..
Swing for the fences: take DeRozan
From Chad Ford’s article about yesterday’s workouts in Chicago.
DeRozan showed off his terrific athleticism. But more impressive was the solid shooting display he put on. While he still isn’t a sharpshooter, he showed range out to the NBA 3-point line. For a guy who shot 18 percent from the college arc as a freshman, that has to come as a big relief.
“As far as upside goes, he’s second only to Blake Griffin in this draft,” one NBA GM noted. “He has all the physical tools to be a superstar. The question is — is he Vince Carter or Gerald Green?”
T-Wolves need to take a chance on the guy who could become Vince Carter.
I’d like to see T-Wolves move-up and get another pick in the top 10. Take DeRozan or perhaps Harden at #6 and get PG (Jennings, Curry, Flynn, Maynor, perhaps Tyreke) with other pick. If moving up hasn’t cost us #18, take Mullens if he’s there.
Nightmare scenario is Griffin, Rubio, Thabeet, DeRozan and Harden going in front of us.
If that is the nightmare scenario
I think i’m find with either Curry, Holliday or Evans. That being said, I do like DeRozan and think he should be in the mix.
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