No GM in the NBA is apparently more active right now than Minnesota’s David Kahn, as he’s apparently set on "making a big splash in his first draft" according to one NBA executive, and is "talking to everyone" at the moment. One rumor that is making the rounds has Memphis sending Minnesota Kevin Love in exchange for the #2 pick (and filler). Minnesota would then draft Ricky Rubio, which could help them significantly with their ticket sales, and still have the #6 pick at their disposal, which they could use to take someone like Jordan Hill.
From Draft Express. As you may have read in the comments from a post below, Darren Wolfson went to a breakfast with Kahn and reported that he told the assembled media members that he has yet to contact Memphis. He also made it clear that he had not talked to David Aldridge (from who the story was made public; link content courtesy of Michael Rand).
We started to broach this subject in a post below, but it appears that Kevin Love is the team's most attractive asset to move up in the draft while maintaining their #6 pick for a starting point guard. Hasheem Thabeet and Ricky Rubio would appear to be the big splash names that would likely do wonders for the general sports fans of the area but would giving up Love be worth it? Would Rubio + Hill, Rubio + DeRozan or Thabeet + Curry be worth it? Do you think a team would trade a top 5 pick for a package not including the 6th pick? What say you?
BTW: How Wolvesy would it be for them to let Memphis end up with both Kevin Love and O.J. Mayo?
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the big splash
From what I’ve seen of Kahn, he does seem to want to remake the roster. I think letting go of Love so quickly is throwing out the baby with the bath water. Love’s ceiling is not the moon, but he seems to have been one of the most productive rookies in the league. And a fan favorite. There is no such assurance that this would happen with the mentioned players. I am apprehensive, to say the least.
Risky...
People here consider me a Love-basher, but I am not completely sold on this idea…it just comes down to “what exactly is Rubio going to be?” and if it’s a Maravich-clone, then obviously I support the trade. But Love (#5 in a very strong draft lottery) would arguably be the projected #2 had he stayed at UCLA for a year. I don’t think that’s a certainty (Hansbrough’s stock didn’t rise at all in his years at UNC) but definitely realistic.
No way would I ever give up Love AND the #6 for #2.
To do, or not to do . . .
Let’s assume it’s Love for the #2, which becomes Rubio. Here are some offhand reasons I would be for and against the trade:
For:
1. Love’s upside is probably Troy Murphy. Rubio’s is not Maravich, and that’s a good thing.
2. What have they got to lose? Like they can’t get to 25 wins with Rubio instead of Love?
3. With Rubio/Bassy running the point, this team will likely get in place to pick Cole Aldrich next year.
4. Effective distributor is tougher to find than efficient rebounder.
5. A 19 year old Future Star buys Kahn more time to build a winner, and keep his job.
6. Rubio’s passing ability could attract a greater star who would otherwise not come here.
Against:
1. Risk/reward of this trade goes off the charts.
2. Front line of the Wolves goes from a position of strength to a position of weakness (barring any other additions)
3. Rubio could still theoretically be there at 6
4. Love plus Curry/Holiday/Jennings is still probably better than Rubio minus Love
5. This move worsens the team’s shooting ability instead of improving it.
Extra positive: Rubio’s Jonas Brothers good looks intrigue SnP’s daughter’s into an abnormal interest in Wolves basketball, igniting a father-daughter bond that will last for generations, and give him the opportunity to run the site as a family business.
Good lists...
I have one other, for each:
For:
- Jefferson could become an MVP candidate, 28+ ppg scorer, if he played with an elite playmaker.
Against:
- We could possibly trade for a late-lottery pick, without having to give up Love, and walk away with a point guard like Holiday that ends up being better than Rubio.
I didn't consider the "Hill" thing at #6, either
Then it becomes Love and Holiday vs. Rubio and Hill.
Huh.
what?!
MVP candidate. Come one.
Maybe a third place vote from Sid Hartman, but do you really see Al EVER mentioned in the company of LeBron, Dwight Howard, Kobe, Chris Paul?
Amare Stoudamire had a few huge scoring seasons too when Nash was spoon feeding him dunks, but I don’t think he was ever considered a legit MVP candidate.
Best case, his stats and perceived value become inflated enough to where we can dump him for a guy that can score AND pass and paly defense.
He won't win an MVP
most likely, but if he ever becomes a 28 & 12 guy on a playoff team, he’s in the conversation. That isn’t any kind of bold statement, it’s just reality.
Whether a table-setter like Nash (or Rubio, hopefully if we trade for him) adds 4-5 ppg to Jefferson’s average is a good question. I think it’s realistic, though.
It’s hard to imagine his PPG not rising playing next to a gifted passer like Rubio, but it’s important to remember that Al isn’t very good at playing off the ball. I’d imagine he can learn, though, as he’s probably never played next to a guy like that. I know if I were a big man used to creating almost all my own offense that I’d love a few open layups/dunks every game. A good coach should be able to teach that skill in no time, especially to a guy with Al’s ridiculous touch. All he needs to do is catch it within 8-10 feet of the hoop and he can just baby hook it in.
RE: Jonas Brothers
It’s funny you write that because after having to go see Jonas Brothers: The 3D Movie Concert my eldest daughter saw a picture of Rubio and said that he was cute. She, however, is big into swimming so maybe I’ll have to wait for daughter #2 to have an abnormal interest in Wolves basketball.
Here’s the thing with Rubio: I think he’d be a better fit with Love than with Jefferson. If you get a pick and roll master at the point, you want a big man who doesn’t camp out in the left block. Plus, the idea of Mayo + Love ending up on the same team makes me want to throw up a bit. How about this:
To Memphis:
- Al Jefferson
- 18th pick
- Rights to Pekovic
To Minny:
- 2nd pick
- Darko
- Rudy Gay
Would either team be crazy enough to do it?
I think PoorDick’s negative point #4 is what would really make this hard to swallow. As a quick side note, with Kahn saying that Love is probably the 4th best player on a winning team, is he undervaluing the guy?
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Not sure Memphis does that
Giving up Gay and the 2 for them is a lot to swallow. Leaves them with no wing presence at all, and they are building with Jefferson, Mayo, and Gasol? Hmm. I dunno.
I’m not sure I’d do it either….I sometimes wonder if we don’t undervalue Jefferson here and slightly overvalue Love. That deal leaves the Wolves with no post scoring at all.
Sure, I’d rather have Love+Curry than Rubio, given what we know now. But that isn’t the deal, really, because there’s still the 6th pick to factor in. And of course, you may not have a chance at Love+Curry standing pat.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 16, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Two words:
Chris. Wallace. ;)
In all seriousness, I think that deal is ridiculous and I proposed it. There’s no way it happens. I just wanted to say that I think Love is the better fit with Rubio and got a bit carried away.
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Speaking of...
are we going to have make a trophy for execs who gift wrap titles for other teams, now that McHale and Wallace have done it back to back? And who does the award get named after? McHale might be the first, but Wallace has more potential to keep on giving…
Maybe we're...
…underestimating Dunleavy. Is it really a given that the Clips will stay there with Kaman, Camby, Randolph, and Jordan already on the roster? Dunleavy and Wallace at the top of the draft is a pretty awesome combo in terms of raw entertainment.
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From a father's perspective
A daughter’s interest in Rubio > A daughter’s interest in Michael Phelps.
But most girls are smart enough not to devote a major portion of their lives to following sports (However, “The Bachelor” and “Jon and Kate plus 8 minus Jon” are another story).
For chronological reasons, I’d rather pair a teen-aged PG sensation with another young post player like Love, instead of Jefferson (whom I like very much). I like the idea of adding Rubio, but I also understand it could be five or six years before he puts it all together. If my choice is trading Love for Rubio, or swapping Jefferson for Rubio and then also getting a very good very young scoring/defending wing (Evan Turner?) to add to the mix, I’ll take the latter.
And no, I’m not saying that Rudy Gay is a very good very young scoring/defending wing. But could the Wolves do the trade you have above, and get the Griz’s first pick next year instead of Gay? A Rubio/DeRozan/Young/Love/Aldrich starting five is tantalizing, and their combined age is only slightly more than that of Dikembe Mutumbo.
Plus, the idea of Mayo + Love ending up on the same team makes me want to throw up a bit.
If the “filler” ended up involving Marko Jaric, would we be talking projectile?
K-Love as the 4th best player on a winning team...
It depends on the system they intend to run. A player’s value is quite different if they’re running the Triangle vs., say, the 7-seconds-or-less type of offense.
However, just on paper, I think he is undervaluing him a little, only because it’s hard to know how good Kevin Love will be in another 3 years, which would be about the time you’d think this team will be poised to at least make a run at the playoffs. Kahn’s assessment doesn’t seem to take potential development into account, and I believe he can only get better from here.
Troy Murphy?
That’s not Love’s ceiling, that’s his floor. He’s already equal to Troy Murphy. (I think- I haven’t watched much Pacers lately).
by princelyfrank on Jun 16, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Best I could do
early in the morning. I wouldn’t trade Love for Murphy even up, never mind at ten years older and making three times the money. However, Murphy is a Wages of Wins All Star, and shoots threes. Occasionally, he also makes them.
Any other player that comes to mind? Brad Miller, maybe?
Kind of Brad Miller
but really, what I like about Love is that he’s pretty unique. That’s why I don’t want to trade him, he’s the only player like himself in the NBA. To find a good comparison, you gotta go back to Unseld or Cowens (best case scenarios, obviously)
by princelyfrank on Jun 16, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Definitely best case scenarios
those guys are hall of famers. He actaully sort of reminds me of a less defensively stalwart version of Charles Oakley. That guy was a tremendous rebounder, and learned to hit the midrange jumper fairly early in his career.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 16, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I'm a Love-lover
I admit it. But hey, Charles Oakley was a good player!
by princelyfrank on Jun 17, 2009 2:51 AM CDT up reply actions
No doubt
I meant that comparison as a good thing. Oakley was a hell of a player. Love should be a little more offensively creative in terms of passing, but Oak was an unreal screener, and a really smart player, which was sometimes lost because he was so tough. Ultimately, I don’t think Love will have quite those defensive chops—Oak was an unreal help guy—he never was late on a rotation. But I think he’ll be a little better offensively, and I think they will be similar players.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 17, 2009 7:47 AM CDT up reply actions
First of all, I’m really excited to hear that he seems to be active and talking to eveyone. I’ve been craving that kind of GM for a while now. At least he does understand the value of this summer.
I’ve gotta say that I’ve really grown on Love. If you’d add something like Conley for Foye than I’m all in for it. But straight up .. gotta say I feel pretty bad about Love go.
Beater of the early Thabeet drum ... but not so much of the late one
Wim, that is great stuff. I’m not sure Memphis would be interested in a Foye for Conley swap, but I suppose if they really see Mayo as their PG of the future they might bite. Just for future reference, though, you switched the subject and direct object of that phrase. I think what you meant to say is thave Love has really grown on you :)
I love the thought of Kahn being aggressive.
We need to be thinking outside of the box to turn this team around, I just hope he doesn’t do something stupid.
As for Love for the #2, I think we would all have to wait and see. We would all agree that if Rubio turns into the stud that he is supposed to be, that he would probably be worth giving up Love. If he doesn’t, then the price is obviously too high. Honestly none of us really knows if this is a good deal or not right now, just that it is very risky.
I’d prefer to see Kahn make safer moves, but at least he is willing to rock the boat to improve the team.
I wouldn’t do it. If we had a better idea of what Rubio’s potential might be, then yeah. I’m sure the Wolves have a stronger opinion than most of us (at least I hope they do), and maybe they’re certain he’s an impact PG. I don’t know.
But Love’s a very solid NBA power forward already at age 20, and considering his main flaw—his shooting efficiency—is A) something almost all rookies struggle with and B) was a strength of his at the NCAA level, that should get better.
I’m not outwardly opposed to trading Love. I like him a lot, but never say never. And I think the sum of a Love-Jefferson frontcourt might always fall a bit short of its parts. But I just don’t know if now’s the time to do it. It’s a weaker draft, for one. Second, I’m not sure if anyone short of Jerry West or the San Antonio Spurs can say for certain which PG in this class will end up being the best one. Third, I think Love’s underrated around most of the league (see his rookie teams snubs), and you never want to sell low. And finally, we have to see how Big Al returns from his injury before we move forward assuming he’ll be the same guy he was.
In other words, I think next year might be the better time to make such a move. Like I said, maybe the Wolves have a really strong opinion on Rubio, but I just don’t know about giving up one of your best (and very youngest) players to do it. (Also, they’ve had a disastrous history in drafting/evaluating guards and wings, and even if you pin most of that on McHale, I’d still be a bit skeptical, to say the least.)
Or maybe it’s just the general paranoia of being a Wolves fan. Be honest. Right now, who isn’t imagining a scenario where Rubio can’t translate his game, Love fulfills his destiny as a rich man’s Wes Unseld, and Brandon Jennings gets picked one spot after the Wolves’ at #7 and becomes the next Kevin Johnson?
I bow to nobody in my belief in Ricky Rubio
but this would certainly make me very nervous. Giving up Love would be painful and risky. Still, from Kahn’s stated opinion, it makes sense. If you think Love is the 4th best guy on a contending team, you do it. Hope that you can get a number 1 or 2 guy with the second pick and replace Love with a number 4 best guy at 6.
Here’s the question—let’s say you get Rubio at 2—what do you do at 6? Does that make 6 a little awkward? You can’t draft Curry there, right? Can’t take two point guards. Everyone here seems to dislike Jordan Hill, though with the need for replacement for Love, he might be the guy. Otherwise, there are some choices I don’t love for off-guard—DeRozan, Evans.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 16, 2009 9:03 AM CDT reply actions
No. No. No. No. No.
I appreciate that Kahn is not ruling anything out. I really do. But why, why, why would you trade one of the few truly solid players you are inheriting for an unproven commodity in the draft? There are others on this team (Foye, Miller, etc.) who could act as assets for you as well, and would open spots at positions that you are more than likely going to draft at anyway.
It looks to me like robbing Peter to pay paul. The frontcourt of this team is perhaps its only strength. Why blow that up to try to move up for a point guard? I think trade scenarios further down in the draft might bear better fruit while not forcing this team to give up a good, hard working player that the fans actually want to pay money to see.
I think this is an example of Kahn just trying to make a move to distance himself from the previous regime.
But, if this team can stay at the #6 spot and pick the next Kevin Johnson (a.k.a. Brandon Jennings, as jianfu makes an interesting comparison above that I think has some merit) that’s not a bad “consolation prize” for declining to make the splashy move to ensure you get Rubio.
Love for Rubio without giving up #6? Hell yeah, Rubio is a multiple All-Star in waiting, Love is just a notch below All-Star
He can give you four to five assists per game in his first season if he just plays 25 minutes like now, then increase that by 2 each year until he is on a level with Chris Paul (in terms of passing). I have said it many times on other sites: Look at the rosters he had and has around him now. The only significant player he ever had as a target was Rudy Fernandez. Then compare that to the athleticism of the average NBA wing and low-post player. As soon as his teammates get used to the fact that he can almost always find a player who is open and get the ball to him in some way you have never seen, they will run hard in transition and off the ball and be ready for a pass that lets them score.
Problem is rather Minnesota is not his preferred area. But his agent tried the same thing with Yi (who is a much worse talent), and in the end it didn’t matter. And the Bucks today are not worse off for drafting him.
It is also hard for me to believe that any package for the 2nd pick wouldn't require a lottery pick in return.
Memphis has as many holes to fill as the Wolves. To drop out of the lottery just to bring in Kevin Love seems insane. And as bad a GM as Wallace has seemed to be, I can’t believe he’d be that bad.
That's a good point
and it leads me to believe that if a Memphis/Minnesota trade is in the works, it may be a swap of both players and picks.
How about Love and Tyreke Evans (and change) for Rubio and Marc Gasol?
Then the team’s marketing slogan quickly goes from “Nothing but Love” to “Viva Los Lobos!”
Hell, while we're at it
Trade AlJeff and Mad Dog to the Lakers for Pau. Look at it this way—Spain took the Redeem Team to the brink. Why would the Gasols and Rubio plus role players have much difficulty with any team comprised of one NBA All Star, 2 Second Bananas, and assorted flotsam and jetsam?
Viva Los Lobos del Norte!
There definitely would have to be more than "filler" for this deal to make sense from the Wolves standpoint.
And I still call shennanigans on this report. Sure, two pretty well-connected entities are reporting it, but the details don’t make sense to me looking at it from the outside. If that “filler” is all expiring contracts (which they don’t have a lot of), it still doesn’t make a ton of sense. This team needs players. Unless Kahn thinks he can create major cap space in an effort to get in on the 2010 free agent bonanza…
Honestly
When I read Filler to me that meant cap relief for Memphis. I don’t think we could expect to extract more than the #2 pick for Kevin Love.
If you read the wording of the article, the filler seems to be tagged along on the #2 pick.
One rumor that is making the rounds has Memphis sending Minnesota Kevin Love in exchange for the #2 pick (and filler).
Correct
Draft picks don’t count as Salary in trade so Memphis would have to match Love’s Salary within 25% in order for the trade to work. I would think Memphis would try to unload something like Jaric as the “filler”
No filler needed
Rookies don’t make money? Since when? I’m pretty sure you can trade players for picks straight up, but if not then just tell Memphis to draft Rubio and then trade the rights for K.Love straight up.
I'm willing to believe whatever David Aldridge says
as long as it means that Stephen A. Smith stays “disappeared.”
Quite frankly...
….the draft just won’t be the same without cheezy doodles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaqxreC2wgo
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I don't think that's the case..
….with Love. If he’s in this year’s draft, he’s probably the #2 pick.
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If the Wolves do this deal..
It would answer you above question. The Jordan Hill remark in that article was just annoying. There is no reason to think that’d be what the Wolves did with the #6. Given Kahn’s silence on Foye you’d think he’d look really hard at DeRozan or Tyreke before Hill.
The note on ticket sales seems a bit misplaced too. Two things would help with ticket sales… winning and a magnetic star. If people are right about Rubio, he helps with the first one… but Love is probably the most likable guy in basketball and on pace to be the best interview.
Personally I’d rather have Jennings/Harden than Rubio/Evans if we are remaking the backcourt.
I think it was interesting..
….how Foye was dumped into the expiring contract bin. Here’s the clip from RandBall:
I think that’s the biggest piece of news from the guy so far.
*Kahn specifically mentioned Randy Foye and Mike Miller being in the last year of their contracts. He seems to place quite a bit of stock in that as a positive bargaining chip in trade possibilities.
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And I mean..
…from Kahn, not Rand. RandBall is consistently interesting.
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I think this is right, actually
I’m not sure that I want him being as abject about Foye, but I agree with him that he’s moveable. My view on Foye is that they would be better off moving him—he shouldn’t be central to their plans because I don’t think he’s good enough. But as long as he’s around, it’s going to be tougher to get away from him as a central piece.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 16, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Minnesota would then draft Ricky Rubio, which could help them significantly with their ticket sales, and still have the #6 pick at their disposal
The part about ticket sales worries me because it means the FO might more a poor basketball trade in order to boost revenue in the short term to create excitement. I don’t want to mirror all the points above about Rubio being an 19 year old unknown and KLove already offering some NBA ready and proven skills, but it is definitely a gamble.
Honestly, I think a Rubio + Hill draft would stink as I think Jordan Hill is a significant downgrade from Love and still doesn’t fit well next to Al. If this trade were to go down, I would hope it would be to snag Thabeet + Curry or even Thabeet + Jennings.
They could still go Rubio + Thabeet. If OKC takes Harden #3 (and I think that’s at least 50-50), I’d have to imagine Sacramento wouldn’t mind moving down at all with Rubio off the board. Granted, a lot of teams might be looking to acquire Thabeet if it gets to that point (who knows), but the Wolves’ #6 pick would allow Sacramento the best shot at their plan B point guard.
At the very least, the Wolves boom/bust potential with a Rubio/Thabeet draft would be through the roof. I’m not a big fan of Thabeet. At all. I think he’s weak/soft, I fear he might be TOO big (e.g., too injury prone, too mechanical), and with his size and hype, I think he’s going to be the league’s biggest “poster” target since Yao in his early years. But for Kahn, what better way to thump your chest, after declaring a need for better perimeter players and rim protector, then landing this draft? I’m not sure it would work and I wouldn’t do it, but I’m not on the payroll.
Thabeet = blech.
I’m with you and I am not on board with drafting Thabeet for this team. Play better perimeter defense and Love and Jefferson don’t have to get into foul trouble trying to protect the basket.
And I wonder if Thabeet doesn’t have the chance to be a more athletic Shawn Bradley – freakishly tall, blocks some shots, maybe grabs some boards…but no O, and injury prone as all get out.
this is the worst thing i could have possibly imagined mayn
DO NOT FUCKING TRADE KEVIN LOVE
MAYN HOL UP!
Nahh, this won't happen
As much as I like to hear of Kahn (and company) thinking outside of the box, I don’t see anything like this deal happening because:
1. Memphis doesn’t need Kevin Love
2. It’s a cinch that Ricky doesn’t want to come here
3. Since you can’t trade a player for a draft pick, this deal would hinge on the “filler” from Memphis and there isn’t much to work with.
actually
Rubio lost all his leverage when his european team got tired of waiting to know whether he was going to the nba or not. So, whoever drafts him keeps him at this point, I should think.
by oblivionspocket on Jun 16, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Love for #2 straight up
seems like a fair deal. I’m not saying I’d do it, but I think it’s a fair deal to assess.
In the event this did occur and we kept #6, I would go Rubio-DeRozan. The reason is that Rubio might be one of the best fast-break passers and alley-oop passers in the game, and that fits DeRozan perfectly since he needs to play off others to be successful. Evans would be a terrible, terrible fit with Rubio and Hill is just blah. What this would mean though is we would have to go with a big at #18. Mullens, Clark, Blair, and even Hansborough, would have to be considered with that pick.
Or trade for Tyrus Thomas. At the very least, a Jefferson/Thomas/Miller/DeRozan/Rubio lineup has the potential to be one of the weirdest teams in the game. A post scorer, a two-headed alley-oop threat, and a shooter.
Of course, with their extensive collection of fire-hydrant-shaped players, maybe they’re already one of the weirder teams in the game.
See, to me, the choices at 6 if they get Rubio aren't that appealing
I feel a little better about Hill than you do, and they will need a Love replacement in this scenario, but I agree that I don’t love him there.
I wonder, if they do this, whether they then look to trade back from 6, especially if Curry is still there. At that point, you gotta figure a team like the Knicks is desperate for Curry and might do something. If you could get the 8 and Wilson Chandler, who has shown he can play in an uptempo offense, for the 6, that might be something worth doing. Might have to thrown in a later pick too for that.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 16, 2009 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions
i HATE everything i hear from Khan
i mean, it seems like he didnt even watch de wolves lass year?
MAYN HOL UP!
It does seem like he just wants to make trades for the sake of making trades.
And if you’re going to trade Love, why trash his potential just weeks before you’re going to do it? Kahn is scaring me badly. If we trade Love for Thabeet, I’m going to have to quit on this team. If Kahn had taken over the Wolves the year after we drafted KG, he probably would have tried to trade him, too, to “make a splash”
by princelyfrank on Jun 16, 2009 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, this is totally unfair
Kahn hasn’t, you know, actually traded anyone yet. He hasn’t, you know, said anything about trading Love. We have no idea if he wants to make trades to make trades. The most we can say is that it’s clear he wants to change the roster—7 to 10 new players by fall 2010. But you know what: I want to change the freaking roster too. The roster is bad. It needs to change.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 16, 2009 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions
why would u trade wun uc de two bright spots doe?
de fact dat dis is even being discussed reflects VERY badly on khan mayn. Love should be by all accounts competely an utterly untouchable. fuck u david khan for even entertaining de idea uv trading him mayn
MAYN HOL UP!
You would trade him because he has trade value
unlike much of the roster filler that litters this team. The expiring contracts have some value, but I think not as much as is being assumed here. Love could get you a serious piece. It comes down to how you feel about Rubio and how risk averse you are. Making this deal is a big risk, and I might not do it. But I also love Rubio, and think he’s a possible franchise changing talent. That’s why you do it.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 16, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
My comment is a bit unfair, since he hasn't actually made any of these trades yet
but my complaints will be totally fair once he makes them. I hate, hate, hate the idea of trading a guy after a very successful rookie season. The NBA draft has a really high bust factor. Love is a not bust. Rubio might be a bust. Whoever we get at 6 might be a bust. There are a lot of busts in this game.
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
by princelyfrank on Jun 16, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions
TWolves...
tend to bust in their 2nd year, when they suffer catastrophic injuries. Maybe now is the time to deal Love.
Perpetual rookie turnover!!!
Is the only way to avoid the 2nd year curse ;)
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I hadn't thought of it like that.
I wouldn’t want to be Kevin Love’s knee right now. Either of them!
by princelyfrank on Jun 16, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I love KG and all
But you gotta admit, could we have done that much worse trading him? We woulda had Ray Allen instead of Marbury at the very least… and the dealings with Joe Smith probably would never have happened if KG wasn’t here (assuming Kahn would have taken McHale’s approach to underdealing) because our needs would have been different. That’s a lot that we might have missed out on by not trading KG. Again though, I love the man and even in hindsight, he was still probably worth it. He changed MN’s story and gave them a name and an identity more than JR Rider and Laettner.
It's one thing...
…to see that a building needs work, and quite another to fix it up. Brutal honesty without the backup will be really, really off-putting. He’s really building up his boom/bust cred at this point.
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I like the energy, though...
McHale got pretty comfortable in his gig as VP, and there didn’t seem (from the way-outside looking in) to be enough work being done to remake the roster, after 2004.
If these types of rumors have any shred of truth, it sounds like Kahn and his staff are exploring everything and that would help our chances of making opportunistic trades.
Brutally honest but mistaken?
He seems to undervalue Love though. When he’s on the floor, good stuff just seems to happen. He’s the only player on the roster that should have more value in the wolve’s eyes than in other team’s eyes.
So, trading him might not work out so well since other teams don’t seem so hot on him, especially assistant coaches, and he could help the team out a lot.
As far as fit goes(often a justification for trades), even though he’s short like Jefferson, he could do a lot of things Jefferson doesn’t. Things like getting to the free throw line, making good passes to cutters, playing within the offense, and doing all the things needed in the high post.
by oblivionspocket on Jun 16, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Brutally honest but mistaken and also stupid?
First, I’m hoping the cited article is just wrong.
But if it is not, what we have seen of Kahn so far is this:
- Dissing and demotivating Big Al, and Love.
- Devaluing Foye.
- Showing a desire to blow everything up and start new, which is reeeally stupid in a year with a poor and unbalanced draft. Not only does it have a dearth of quality players at some positions, it has a dearth of trade prospects.
- Showing signs of over-valuing Thabeet. He wants to trade a player so we can draft a statue of a player.
I’m as bummed as Maynholeup…
By the way Mayn, which manhole is up, anyway, you should maybe call the city works dept.
-
Seems like the Grizzlies would like to have him
And if they would prefer Love and you can keep the #6, that would be quite a lot considering they could also do a deal with NY for Lee and the #8.
If it weren’t for the different strengths of the drafts, that would be a great offer. We’d have essentially traded last year’s 3rd pick for Mike Miller, cap relief, and this year’s 2nd pick. You usually don’t get assets in return for moving up in the draft.
But who will we really be trading Love for? Thabeet? Rubio? or Harden? Any of the three could be better than Love in the long run, but they all involve more risk. Thabeet barely had enough skill to play in college even if he has a lot of ability, so he’s pretty scary. Rubio might not even want to come here, and mainly knows how to play by global basketball rules using global basketball strategy. Harden, like the other two players, thrived on a team that played zone defense, but is otherwise pretty attractive.
I suppose I could live with the trade if they drafted the right guy, but it’s a scary trade because I have no idea which player is the right guy and I don’t think Kahn does either.
by oblivionspocket on Jun 16, 2009 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Right.
I think #4 might be the sweet spot. Assuming Thabeet goes top 3, either Harden or Rubio will be there. I’d be happy with either player. And you don’t need to give up Love to go 6 to 4.
Unfortunately, the Kings really only have 2 bad contracts, and both are pretty bad. Nocioni for 4 more years at $8 million per, and Udrih for 3 more at $5.5 per. Not sure if I want to touch either of those to move up a couple spots.
Fortunately, they have a lot of holes and available roster spots, so maybe they like a guy or two who might be around at 18 and are willing to pick up an extra pick to move back 2 spots. That’d be the hope. Although without knowing their evaluation of Rubio and the other PGs, it’s impossible to speculate how willing they’d be to do that.
Short of that, I guess you just have to role to dice on a guy like Jennings or something, or hope Curry makes it past Washington.
I do wonder about Kahn, though. This isn’t the first time he’s talked about getting another top pick without giving up their #6. He might be plotting something big. I don’t think this is the draft to hinge the future of your team on, personally.
Difficult to compare those two situations...
Since Lee is an RFA and the Knicks have reportedly been considering letting him walk to save cap space. I’m not sure how much that affects Lee’s value.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jun 16, 2009 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions
He'll have more value after next year....
I’m not against trading Love even though I really like him. However, he’ll have more trade value after another solid year. I think he will have a great year and just prove that he’s going to be a bright spot in the league.
My biggest concern is what if this wouldnt be to get Rubio but to get Thabeet? I’ve heard rumours that Kahn loves Thabeet. If we could get Thabeet AND Curry..then maybe. But if you pick up Thabeet and Curry is gone by 6….that just would suck.
Yeah to go with what Kingsxman said
Wolfson posted on his facebook awhile back that Kahn is obsessed with Thabeet..I’d think it would be Love and #6 to get #2 and Thabeet…There are ew Legit Centers in the Draft and this class is deep with Point Guards….the most Logical situation would be to get Thabeet @ #2 and then either Eric Maynor or Ty Lawson or Jrue Holliday @ 18…
An excellent point.
It’s assumed that this move would be made to ensure that the Wolves can pick Rubio at #2. But what if it is for Thabeet? Then clearly Kahn is committed to moving Jefferson to the 4, and then you have to wonder why you’d need such a fast point guard if you are looking to build a big team.
Chad Ford Chat Question
Adam S. (Minnesota)
I have been hearing rumors of the Wolves moving up to #2 to take Rubio. Any truth to this?
Chad Ford
There have been some rumblings around the league that they were talking to Memphis for what would be Kevin Love for the No. 2 pick. But from what I can gather, that’s pretty bogus. The Wolves do like Rubio … but there are all sorts of problems with them trading away Love … the most obvious is that Love can’t be traded back to the team that traded him in the first place for one year. So anything like that would have to happen after the draft. And, I’m not sure that Love is a perfect fit with Marc Gasol. They need more of a long, athletic shot blocker like … Hasheem Thabeet!
Amen, Chad.
This could give the Wolves (and, seemingly, many fans on this board) what they want anyway. If the Grizz were to stay at 2 and pick Thabeet, Rubio could slide a bit. The price might not be as high for the Wolves to move up to, say, 4 in order to ensure they get Rubio, if that were their intent. But that could really test the mettle of this Front Office in a hurry, as they’d have to get on the phone in milliseconds before someone else swoops in with a better deal.
you beat me to it :)
Beater of the early Thabeet drum ... but not so much of the late one
by Wim (Belgium) on Jun 16, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Does anyone know...
If Rubio would even come here? He seemed to be bitching enough about Memphis. We’re basically in an identical situation with far worse weather (which will be an issue for a young kid from Spain that has probably never seen snow). Or was it more about Memphis already having a starting PG?
PS – NO WAY do I do Love for #2. There is no adequate replacement for Love in this draft, and there are still way too many unknown variables for projecting Rubio’s career at this point.
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
Maybe..
he just doesn’t like the southeastern region of the united states?
by oblivionspocket on Jun 16, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
He supposedly doesn’t like Memphis because of both Mayo’s presence as a ball dominant guard the negative experiences of Navarro and Pau. I haven’t heard a peep that it’s market-related. I believe that he wants to go somewhere that needs him so he’ll get minutes, so there’s no reason to worry about whether or not he’d come here just yet.
I think Rubio's issue
with Memphis is he got some pretty negative feedback on the franchise from fellow Spaniards Pau Gasol and Juan Carlos Navarro (sp?). I’m sure he’s not begging to go to Minnesota, but I also don’t believe he’d refuse to play here if we drafted him. He’d probably immediately be given the keys to the franchise and an opportunity to be a difference maker from the get go.
Rubio has rare skills too. I doubt there is anyone in this draft with similar anticipation skills to him. His assist and steal numbers are off the charts. He’d need a couple years to gain some strength and adjust to the NBA, but there is no reason to think that he can’t at some point be an 8+ assist and 2 – 3 steal per game type of player. The concern is how good will he be at creating his own offense and knocking down the outside shot.
by Rascal Flatts on Jun 16, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions
It sounds like..
…he’ll have to go where ever he’s drafted just to get the money to cover the buyout that has been sold off to a 3rd party.
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I wonder what that buyout is going to wind up being
by Eric in Madison on Jun 16, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
It does seem like his euro contract is bullshit.
The buyout is worth many, many times what his actual salary is and has been, making it akin to some sort of basketball indentured servitude. Hopefully (for the cause of justice) he will only have to pay a small portion of the buyout, something akin to the remaining years’ salaries rather than what amounts to a punitive fine.
by princelyfrank on Jun 16, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep
I don’t know anything about Spanish contract law, but I know a lot about American contract law, and there’s no doubt that there are a couple of legal arguments that I would make and feel pretty good about if I were his lawyer trying to reduce that buyout. Not necessarily no doubt, slam dunk arguments, but good ones.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 16, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Non-existent
but my Legalese-American is very good.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 16, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree
Essentially the argument is that the contract is substantively unconscionable due the buyout being 50 times more than his annual salary. Too bad he wasn’t in American courts because it’s likely the contract he signed at 16, even if he waived his capacity rights would still be potentially voidable upon his 18th birthday. I think capacity in Spain is 16 though. Either way, I could definitely see them lowering the buyout, but I think Ricky is going to have to pony up some pennies off his rookie deal to make it happen.
Unconscionability is one argument
though it’s a fairly vague one. Without doing research, I would analogize to an unenforceable penalty clause. If you and I have a contract for me to sell you widgets for $10,000, and I breach by failing to deliver, you can sue me. But if we put a clause in the original contract that if I breach, I owe you $1 million, a court isn’t going to enforce that. It’s worth more than the contract could ever be.
Another analogy would be to no-compete clauses in employment contracts. Courts will only enforce those to a certain point—enough to protect the original employer, but not to penalize the employee. Maybe it’s OK if I’m not allowed to work in said industry for 2 years, but not for 10 years. That isn’t protection, that’s punishment.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 16, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Very true
But isn’t an unenforceable liquidated damages clause essentially an argument for substantive unconscionability. None the less, excellent point with the non-compete clause. I don’t think their is any question that Rubio’s camp will be able to negotiate the buyout down; how much that may be is the question.
They're similar in spirit
just more specific. Frankly, most reasons why a court wouldn’t enforce a contract are relateable to unconscionability in the widest sense. Unenforceable LD clauses (or penalty clauses as I called them) really have to do with the traditional measure of damages in K law. We don’t punish breachers, we just require that they make the other party whole. If you can go out and get the widgets for $12,000, the damages will be $2,000 (plus incidentals).
I agree, they should be able to get that buyout down if they work at it. One thing it would be worth knowing is what other buyouts have been. I think that would be informative as to what a court would be willing to enforce, and thus where the negotiations are likely to go.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 16, 2009 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I no lawyer either
but it is clear that his Spanish club have turned his buyout value into a debt instrument. And I doubt very much whether the owners of that instrument are going to “do the right thing”. When you look at what he was making salary wise (< 100k Euro per season), they buyout of near 60 times the value is criminal.
And if the Wolves trade up to take him at #2
he should be grateful that the larger contract will help him offset the buyout, rather than what he might have received at 4-8 slots.
definitely
that’s a lot of money for him.
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If it's Love for the #2...
then what happens to #18 and #28?
Presumably, we’d have some combination of a point guard and either big man or wing-man for rookies. Would we want a third rookie? A fourth?
I would like to entertain ideas of the 18/28/Miller/Pekovic for a good veteran with a borderline bad contract. Depending on what position is left unfilled by #2 and #6, it could be Kaman, or Deng… someone not too old, probably paid $2 Million more than they are deserved, but would help the roster win right away, so we don’t get dragged down with another 20-win season that could stunt the growth of the young guys.
Kahn should be on the phone all week.
And if he doesn’t have long, serious conversations with the Bulls and Clippers in regard to who they have available and what they’d take to get them, then he’s not doing his job.
You know, the more I look at this rumored trade, the less sense this makes. Why add even more rookies in a “weak” draft to your team? This team needs some vets to show the young guys what it takes to last in this league.
Not fine with losing next year's pick
As long as there is value still available I would be fine adding another rookie or two. The problem is that by trading away those pieces we could be giving away our pick next year in what is supposed to be a very deep draft. I don’t think 15 extra wins is worth giving up next year’s pick.
Maybe instead of keeping all of them we package #18 & #28 and try and move up a few spots if there is someone around #10-15 that we like more.
We'll have Utah's pick, next year...
and if we’re still a Bottom 10 team in ’09-10, something went really wrong on June 25, 2009.
I wouldn't be so sure
that this team will be a whole lot better next season than they were in the last. Reasons they will be better, and not much better (IMO):
Better:
1. Love is older/better, and gets more minutes
2. Miller actually shoots the ball
3. Brewer is back
4. AlJeff plays at full strength for the full season
5. Draft picks contribute
Not much better:
1. Somebody else gets injured (for the love of God, not Love).
2. Draft picks take a while to assimilate
3. AlJeff’s recovery takes a while
Of course, this could go out the window if they sign/trade for a young veteran starter or two. But with the deadline Kahn Man has given himself, and his professed unimpression with the skill level on the team, and the economic circumstances surrounding the team and the league, I doubt that they will sign/trade for a difference maker—at least not in calendar 2009.
True..
But even if the team has a good draft, the reality is that Big Al will more than likely not be starting on opening day. Even if Al is ahead of schedule, I still think he will miss some time or be a bit rusty which should take away roughly 4-5 wins right there. So I think we could still have a great draft night and be a bottom 10 team. I just don’t see how a quick fix player to get us a few more wins next year fits into Kahn’s 17 month plan.
34 Wins...
was the cutoff in 2009. 34-48. That is a little better than I was thinking, and you’re right that it’s not at all a certainty that we hit that mark. But, I’d way rather hit 35-40 wins, lose the 12th pick to Clippers, take the 19th or so from Utah, and have a player like Deng as a fixture for the next 4 years. He’s just an example—but there will be big contract players that are young, with ability, to be had—at least that’s the way it seems, and Chicago might be more interested in Pekovic’s low post scoring than we are.
+1
I agree. The Wolves can’t be in the business of trying to protect next year’s pick from the Clippers. That deal was made, and you have to try to get better. What’s the alternative? Stay bad so you don’t have to give up that pick? That’s not a strategy.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 16, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Chicago is on a perpetual search for low post scoring
like Moses, wandering through the desert of tiny guards and clueless jumping-bean frontcourt players. Will they ever find the back-to-the-basket big man they seek? How far into their 40-year search are they now?
by princelyfrank on Jun 16, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Eric in Madison
I also don’t see how adding someone like Chris Kaman helps this team ever. I could live with Deng but think you guys are undervaluing him. I think it would take more than 18/28/Miller/Pekovic. Now if we had to throw in Foye I’m fine with that.
I’m just saying that taking on a player that will take playing time away from young guys and play us out of a draft pick next year just to get us 15 extra wins in a rebuilding year makes no sense. If that player can be used long term then go for it.
Well, the devil is in the details
There are a lot of players in the league I don’t want to trade for. 15 extra wins sounds pretty good to me, though. Of course I don’t want to spend all the team’s assets for players that will only help for the next year or two and might or might not get them out of the lottery—that isn’t a good use of assets.
But you have to try to get better. That might and probably will include acquiring some veteran players. If that results in losing the pick to the Clippers, well, that’s the way it goes. If I could get Deng for Foye, the 18, Utah’s pick, the rights to Pekovic, and salary, I’d do it without thinking twice, even though it could leave them without a pick in the first round next year. Kaman I’m less excited about, but I could see him helping. Not sure what I would give to get him. There are other guys.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 16, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Ok it seems like we are basically agreeing on that point, I just see this team as having too many assets (expirings, cap space, draft picks) and a solid rebuilding timetable that it would be a waste to bring in someone with a sole purpose to get 15 more wins next year. I would much rather watch the young guys lose while learning on the court then win a few more games while sitting on the bench.
And I do like Deng, I just have concerns with trading for him right now since he has been very injury prone lately and has a gigantic contract that could tie us down for years if he can’t contribute solidly.
I agree with your general premise to a point
but I guess I would ask: what young players? Really, other than Love, where is the promising young talent on this roster that looks like it could get significantly better. Brewer? I guess. Other than that…Foye is what he is, IMO, and I hope he gets traded, frankly. This year’s draft pick? If whoever that is can play, he’ll play. It’s not like they have a whole roster of first to third year players that need to play. There’s plenty of minutes available.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 16, 2009 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions
15 extra wins still is not in the playoffs
BetterLaettner
by BetterLaettnerThanRider on Jun 16, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Hansborough and Sell #28 or pick Calathes and let him grow in Greece
If we went Rubio and then a wing with #6, then we have to go find another big man. We could probably trade Miller for one of the Dalembert/Chandler/Kaman Centers and sacrifice cap room in 2010. I’d also look at Tyler Hansborough at #18, who could probably step right in and contribute as a solid complimentary starter or PF off the bench. Then you could either sell #28 or pick a guy like Calathes and get him and Pekovic to perfect the pick and roll in Greece for the next year or two.
by Rascal Flatts on Jun 16, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I like Hansborough..
….and I think he would be a significant upgrade over Smith. If Blair falls that far they should snatch him up. With 28, I’d love to see them walk away with Casspi, Claver, Calathes, Mills or Beaubois. Hell, reach for Casspi at 18 if they think he won’t be around.
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You were referring to Local Yokel picks on another post
Chad Ford now has the Wolves going with Swede Jonas Jerebko with the 28th pick.
Maybe we can sign Kevin Lynch as a FA?
by princelyfrank on Jun 16, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm a Jaguar from Lynch's heyday
SnP, Haven’t been on this site long enough….what’s your issue with the Jaguars? Did you go to Kennedy or something?
by Rascal Flatts on Jun 16, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm from the good...
…side of France Avenue. ;)
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I actually like that pick...
“local flavor” aside. Jerebko would be a good combo 3/4 who might be able to play 4 in small lineups.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jun 16, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Speaking of local flavor...
…did anyone catch the new Wild coach’s presser on the radio? Holy crap it was a Minnesota love fest. I think Sid asked if they would be drafting more Minnesotans now….or something along those lines.
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Caught it doing dishes.
The ‘one of us’ mentality kills me. Also reminded me that press conferences like that are usually a waste of time.
by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on Jun 16, 2009 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Here is a draft workout report from Portland on him
Pictured above, Jonas Jerebko (6’8" and 231, Forward, Sweden) was the most impressive physically today, with great size and carrying strength in his frame that you don’t generally expect to see from European prospects. Unfortunately, I’m not sure he understands the rules of basketball — the leather sphere is actually supposed to be thrown through the metal ring that hangs above the ground — because he shot something like 15 percent or so uncontested during the media open session.
Was he nervous? Was he simply displaying the form that led him to shoot 31.4 percent from 3 point land for his career?
Buchanan said, “we like his versatility on the defensive end, we think he can guard multiple positions… he’s never been asked to be that offensive go-to guy, good athlete, definitely an NBA player.” I asked KP if Jerebko shot the ball better during Eurocamp. KP was noncommital and, honestly, it seemed like he couldn’t remember. You can’t really blame him. Currently Jerebko is seen as a late 1st or early 2nd round selection. I’m not sure he’s a fit. If you’re picking between international small forward prospects, I think you stick with Casspi.
(Sidenote: this guy must dunk A LOT because his career field goal percentage is an astonishing 59.6% while his 3 point percentage is roughly 1/2 that) – Ben Golliver
http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/6/16/911479/tuesday-draft-workout-report
Possibility for Nets Trade (assuming no Love/#2 trade)
If we are looking to move up to the late lottery I just read that the Nets are high on Hansborough and Casspi. They are thinking of trading down since neither player would be a good value pick at #11. I think one of the high ranking PGs will fall that far whether it be Jennings/Holiday/Flynn and we could choose between one of them or possibly Gerald Henderson/Earl Clark, giving us way more options depending on our first pick. Then the Nets could get both guys they want at spots that make sense.
No for me as well...
Even if Love is the 4th-best guy on a championship team (which I don’t necessarily buy), his potential is high enough that he and Jefferson shouldn’t be dealt until some other pieces are fit around them. Maybe that’s next year or in a few years, but not this year. Besides, the Wolves do have good trading chips (1st-rounders, expiring deals, Pekovic) that could have some value. Based on the big deals/malcontents who have been moved in the past two years, there’s no reason to offer a guy who could’ve been the #2 in this year’s draft when the team has other options that don’t carry the same risk.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jun 16, 2009 1:22 PM CDT reply actions
Honestly...
This team’s still more than likely a lottery team next year. At least, I think the odds are better that they’re a lottery team than they are that they’re not.
But, if they do make the leap and get out of the lottery next year, then that’s great and they’ll gladly give up that pick to the Clippers in exchange for giving themselves (and the fans) some hope for the future.
I do think Hansbrough is a guy to pay attention to, from the Wolves standpoint. IF this rumored trade involving Kevin Love is true, and let’s say for argument’s sake it is (even if I think it’s bunk)….and IF it’s to ensure they can get Thabeet, not Rubio (which is likely, given that Kahn seems enamored of him)…Hansbrough is definitely a target for this team later in the draft. Kahn might see him as a poor man’s K-Love in some ways.
Or if Blair slips into the back end of the first round, they might snag him, too.
I happen to think this trade rumor might have been put out as a bit of a smokescreen.
Hopefully the Kahn Man earns the name he has been given
Love for #2 straight up would work. Like Chad Ford said you have to wait until the player is drafted anyways (for the 1yr) and a rookie makes a salary, probably higher than or equal to Love’s this year at number 2.
Going back to the Memphis trades of earlier, I wanted to revisit the Al Jefferson option. To call it unlikely would be a drastic understatement, but the options are there. First, Gay did not do quite as well this year as he is capable of doing and that could have possibly lowered his value to Memphis. Whether or not he works well with Gasol, Jefferson is far away more valuable than Gay right now. The only reason I would want McHale around is if he were to work with bigs. And I must say he has done a decent job in the past working with high potential bigs. Why not give Darko a shot and a change of scenery? At least he is a serviceable body if nothing else (and an expiring contract I believe? Trade him near the deadline for a real center). Also, try to snag Conley in the deal and then wait for Oden to pan out and get some sway in the Blazer’s organization, then dangle his best friend in front of him as trade bait as their much needed PG. Then we have: Rubio/Telfair
Foye/Miller/#6
Gay/Brewer/Carney
Love/Smith
Darko/Collins/Mullins?/FA/Pekovic eventually
Side note-Mullins has apparently been promised a top 16 pick. Rumor only, but could be true.
As an added benefit, we might add a few Memphis fans who are fans of Gay and more importantly, a lot of fans who were dissapointed on draft night last year at the prospect of a Gay/Love combo falling through.
Our lack of a big man seems just as apparent with this scenario, but Darko and Collins can split minutes in the worst case scenario and is not much worse than now. Although I still believe Al is better suited to defend less mobile post guys (aka centers).
Best case scenario, our 6 pick pans out at the 2 spot and we can use foye or miller along with Darko or another expiring contract for a center that can give us big minutes and big prodcution.
Really best case scenario: Darko pans out and is surprisingly good at running the screen and roll and we have 2 bigs who work well with Rubio. We have Derozan?? and Gay putting in alley oops from Rubio all day. Rubio is flourishing and getting 10 assists daily and learning to hit a J. Miller and/or Foye are in the 6th man spot where Miller has been proven to play best and Foye looks like his potential is pushing him closer to that spot all the time.
Just a thought.
Do It! Do It!
I wonder if the following makes sense:
-Trade Love for Rubio and Darrell Arthur (back-up PF)
-Draft Harden or DeRozan at #6.
-Trade Miller and #28 for Kaman and rights to our future #1 back (Clippers have to pay premium for someone taking Kaman’s awful contract). Thankfully, he’s only 27.
-Draft Earl Clark, Austin Daye or Terrence Williams at #18.
Line-up:
PG: Rubio/Telfair
SG: Harden or DeRozan/Foye
SF: Gomes/Brewer/#18
PF: Big Al/Rhino/Darrell Arthur
C: Kaman/Big Al
also...
Clippers are desperate to move Kaman or Randolph so might just be willing to return future #1 in exchange for cap relief and clearing out the front court for Blake Griffin.
I also bet the Clippers think they can (mistakenly in my opinion) get to the playoffs next year with a healthy Baron Davis and Camby alongside Griffin, Eric Gordon and Al Thornton…Miller would help.
by TWolvesFanInLA on Jun 16, 2009 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions
finally...
while I think Kaman is an above-average NBA center, the reason I’d make that trade has far more to do with getting back that future #1 than Kaman’s ability to let Big Al move back to PF.
Al Jefferson at center is almost as good of an idea as drafting Ndudi Ebi
And at least Kahn knows that Pekovic is “not explosive”.
Maybe that’s a good thing, remembering how Olowokandi “erupted” when the nightclub closed.
But Kahn’s quote re Pekovic has me hoping that he’s really trying to find an above average center for this team. I’d give up Miller and Love (but they’d have to take Foye too)
Ooops, forgot to opine re Kaman
I think Kaman meets my criteria for “average”. Anyways, salary-wise, the Wolves could trade him straight up for Mike Miller — but I’d rather give them Cardinal and Foye. And if they’re truly desperate, I’d go for getting the pick pack, too.
And then...
With Kaman on board, I’d draft best available PG at 6, B.J. Mullens at 18 — and tell McHale he’s got two seasons to make a player out of the freshman.
Finally...
OK, the Clips want to move Baron Davis too. Fine with me…see ya Mike Miller, and I hate to see you go, Sebastian Telfair but the Clips will need a PG and you can be the starter.
Questions?
Starting five:
Kaman
Jefferson
Gomes
Brewer
Davis
You might actually win a few games that matter.
KAAAAHHHHHHHNNNNN!
I think this is a ridiculous trade idea for a number of reasons. I’m a huge Love fan, and I understand that eventually we may have to move him if it means the team will improve. But let’s take a deep breath and examine what we know. First, at age 20 (!!), Love has already proven that he is a capable player with a high basketball I.Q. and lots of potential for growth. Second, we’re not even sure if Big Al will be ready to start the season, much less how much of his game will come back. Third, as far as the potential draft targets go, we have no idea if Rubio wants to play in Minny (or can adjust to the NBA game) and, based on what I’ve seen (especially against Pitt and in the Michigan State tourney game), Thabeet looks like the second coming of slightly better Shawn Bradley.
This draft is full of decent point guards, several of whom will soon be in the Cities to work out for the team. Let’s take a look at them first before we start planning to rid ourselves of valuable assets. If we want to draft a big, we can use the #18 to look at Mullins, Hansbrough, Taj Gibson or Josh Heytvelt. Then, we could explore trades in-season where we might be able to fleece teams that are in full-fledged “win now!” mode.
It seems as if The Wrath has entered his “I’M Keith Hernandez!” phase – there’s a new sheriff in town and, by gum, NOBODY’S untouchable! Not too comfortable with a guy who’s been on the job roughly a month after a 7 year absence from the league shooting from the hip like this.
So Many Thoughts
1. If they make the trade for Number 2 and Rubio- is there any chance instead of screwing around with Jordan Hill they make a run at Josh Smith? I’m actually not that nuts about Smith for 10 Million a year. This article from Peachtree Hoops gives some good reasons:
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2009/6/3/897482/state-of-the-hawks-power-forward
I also tend to believe that Smith can’t really play the 3 (Outside Shot/ Lateral Quickness). The one thing in Josh Smith’s favor is that he’s an exciting player. My point being he’s the type of player that generates fan interest. I also would wonder why Memphis wouldn’t have more interest considering they signed him to an offer sheet a while back. They would also have the Cap Room to absord his contract- although I don’t see Heisley writing the check for the Trade Kicker.
2. I can’t argue against Love for Rubio as much as Love for Thabeet. The reason being Rubio’s skill-set intrigues me a lot more. Thabeet for all the hype about him barely has a longer wing-span than Shelden or Patrick O’Bryant. The thing that makes this really risky is making this move for Rubio without a individual workout. This doesn’t take away risk-but probably helps in evaluating potential up close.
3. I agree that I might be more inclined to trade Al (For reasons mentioned on this site before). I also agree that Rubio and Love would be a much better pairing. My only concern is that in trading Al for Rubio you they set themselves up for some serious offensive droughts next year.
4. What I do wonder is if the rumors are true about Sacramento being intrigued by another PG (Jennings, Holiday). If Rubio’s on the board at 4 (A possibility) then would a swap of a bad Kings Contract (Beno, or Noccioni) for Cardinal be something of serious interest for the Kings in moving down to 6 from 4?
5. If this plan is to pair Al with Tyreke Evans and Thabeet. I think any positive sentiments I’ve ever had about David Kahn are going out the Window. What I don’t get is “How does Thabeet compliment Al on Offense?” “Aren’t Rebounds a more valuable Defensive Skill than block-shots?” Would the Wolves goal be to see how much they can clog up the lane with poor passing bigs?
r
Quick--
just give me the top 15 or 20 positive sentiments one could have about David Kahn so far. Because then after adding them to mine, I would have 15 or 20.
That tripling of Evans, Al, and Thabeet is simultaneously laughable to regular visitors to this site, and something that a person with just a passing interest in pro basketball would swallow up whole (“Finally, Thabeet’s our true center! Al’s really a PF! Evans will be the tallest PG in the league! And did you see him go off in his last NCAA game??!!”). Thinking about those three, Brewer and Gomes on the floor next year makes me throw up in my mouth.
So if this is so much subterfuge, and the Kahn Man is really laying in the weeds to get, say, Curry/Rubio and Harden, or use the 6th pick and then trade an expiring + Smith/Gomes + a later 1st rounder to end up with two full-fledged starters to add to Love & Al, I’ll sing his praises to the high heavens. But I’ll believe that both activity and success are possible from him when I see it.
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