Wrap up of McHale
by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 18, 2009 6:00 AM CDT
62 comments
Well, today should be a bit slower news day than yesterday. That is, of course, unless Kevin Love decides to drop any more bombs on his Twitter page. Let's pull a Donald Rumsfeld and run through a list of what we know, what we know we don't know, and what we don't know we don't know about the Kevin McHale decision:
What we know:
- David Kahn did this on his own
- He consulted with Glen Taylor on the matter last Friday
- He informed McHale of his decision on Tuesday night
- Kevin Love has an excellent Twitter page
- The new coaching search will begin immediately after the draft
What we know we don't know:
- What led to this decision being made before the draft?
- What led to this decision being made at all?
- Did Kahn force McHale's hand or was it the other way around?
- What sorts of coaching prospects will the team look at?
- Just how much additional house cleaning Kahn plans on doing
What we don't know we don't know:
- The nature of being
- Why Kool Aid doesn't make Oh Yeah! Orange Pineapple anymore
Feel free to add your own Rummyism in the comments. After a day to think about it, my thoughts on the matter are kind of mixed. On one hand, I think McHale has the goods to be an outstanding NBA coach. He is, as Kahn mentioned several times during the press conference, a fantastic communicator and he seemingly has a wonderful way with NBA ego management. We also know that he's a let's-take-care-of-it-in-practice kind of coach and I think that is the best way to handle things in a players' league. Say what you will about the importance of January or whether or not the team he put together has any promise, but McHale got solid improvement out of Al Jefferson, Randy Foye, and Kevin Love during the time at the end of the bench. There was promise there and it was a bird in the hand, not the bush. On the other hand, I had the feeling that McHale simply didn't have the makeup to properly adjust to the new responsibilities that being a coach, not a GM-type, entailed. He just seems like a stubborn ass in this department and I completely agree with Kahn's assessment that it would have been an uncomfortable fit for everyone involved to have McHale coach a team that, by all of Kahn's statements, will look very different from the vision the Iron Ranger had in mind.
This raises an important question: Wasn't this inevitable from the get-go? In a sense, it probably was, but I believe Kahn deserves a lot of credit for coming into a new situation, discarding any preconceived notions about McHale and the squad, and forming his own opinions and acting as he saw fit. Whether or not you agree with the outcome, this is what the majority of Wolves fans have been clamoring for during the past 5-6 years: A strong outside voice to come in with full authority to make changes as he sees fit.
I would have much rather seen this happen when Randy Wittman was tossed aside. However, all things considered, and taking into account the general dysfunction we Wolves fans have grown accustomed to over the years, the ends have to justify the means to a certain extent here from a fan perspective. I think Kahn has played the hand he was dealt as well as he possibly could up to this point. He could have, as he mentioned in his opening press conference, thrown McHale under the bus and made a quick decision to show everyone who the boss was, but instead he took his time and gathered enough information to make an informed decision...a decision that probably ended him up in the same place as where a rash one would have. In his case, and from his perspective, I'm glad to see that the means were emphasized more than the ends and that this club is starting to focus on processes, accountability, and a more sustainable and productive chain of command. Kahn said all the right things about McHale's basketball legacy in this state and he handled the situation with class and a professional process. That is a very encouraging sign from an organization that has made a habit of ending relationships poorly. Granted, we're only one day into the aftermath, but at this point it seems like Kahn has his ducks in a row on this matter.
As for McHale, I wish I could say that I had a stronger feeling about his departure but I don't. It should have happened such a long time ago that I'm almost fatigued thinking about the times where he should have been relieved of his duties but wasn't. I would much rather focus on the future. In this sense, and in the sense that McHale never really seemed to get that his own behavior brought much of this upon himself, I'm disappointed that such a great player's time comes to such a whimpering end. At this point, I'd much rather focus on the future of the club and worry about what they will do with their considerable assets going forward. Who will they draft? Who will they trade? Who will they bring in as a coach? This franchise has never had a controlled, process-oriented makeover in its entire history. McHale took over from Trader Jack in a non-traditional way. Flip and Casey both saw unceremonious endings and even the business with Witt wasn't exactly by-the-book. This, however, is. A new head of Basketball Operations came in and did what most people in his position do: Get rid of the old coach. As Wolves fans, I guess we're conditioned to look for the worst in things, but at the end of the day, this is going as smooth as it possibly could for a guy that was put in place a little more than a month before the draft. I really can't ask for anything more and I really can't wait to see what will happen in the next month or so. I'm also glad that the guy who said that Kevin Garnett tanked games near the end of his tenure is on radio silence with the matter. One of the things that has impressed me the most about Kahn so far is that he has the temperament of a political press secretary, and a feisty one at that. Over the years Papa Glen has often been too honest for his own good and it's nice to see the voice of the franchise finally in the hands of someone who knows how to give a politically correct version of the unfolding events. I'm not saying that Kahn is a weasel or a liar; rather, that he is more targeted and economical with the words that escape his lips. I do see how this could rub people the wrong way, and that some people will mistake him as something of a snake-oil salesman, but he clearly knows what he is doing on this front and that's a good thing.
That about does it. We'll get back to the Community Draft Board in the next post as well as getting around to talking about who should be the next Wolves coach. Unless something else happens, this will be our last post on the McHale business. What say you on the matter?
Until later.
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Sid says Khan will regret this
I recall that there was something about Kahn wanting to get a former NBA head coach to assist McHale. I’ll bet that didn’t sit real well with Kevin and this might have been the tipping point for David.
by levi_mn on Jun 18, 2009 7:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This is a really good write up
1. How good Mchale would have been is hard to truly say. I think considering the talent and the injuries on the squad- he did a very respectable job this past season. Kahn even seemed to admit as much on with Danny B.
2. The dynamics between the two men could have been difficult long-term. This is probably what did him in. The Love Tweet probably just forced his hand.
3. Kahn did acknowledge the need for someone to come in and keep the locker-room positive in a way like McHale did last season. So hopefully this means no to Avery Johnson or Sam Mitchell.
4. I’m not totally sold on Thibodeau or Van Gundy either. I think it’s a moot point since Taylor’s not going to pay for Van Gundy. You could run into the same problems as during the Wittman era of trying to force a team to play grind it out Defensive ball that isn’t suited to play this way.
by Jose Cordoba on Jun 18, 2009 8:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Some quick thoughts
1. The farther I get from the season, the less impress I am with McHale as a coach. He had a good 5 week stretch with this club, and an above-average half of season 4 years ago. I think that shows a lot less than people are acting like it does.
2. I don’t think the Love tweet had a large impact on the unfolding of the events. This is the type of decision you don’t make and sit on afterwards. And when you go to tell people about it, you do it exactly the way the Wolves did (call a press conference, leak word about the firing, have the conference). I think the only difference between what happened and the way they wanted it to happen was that the word was leaked by an authorized source, and 10 hours earlier than the Wolves would have wanted.
by McCleak on Jun 18, 2009 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re:
I think it’s fair to say he didn’t prove himself to be a Great NBA coach during this time. The problem was talent-wise and size-wise once Al went down it was going to be hard to win a lot of games. I think very few NBA Coaches would win a lot of games considering what was on the court. I would state that Coaching under McHale was the least of the problems.
by Jose Cordoba on Jun 18, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks...
….as for coaches, I suspect we’ll see some D-League names down the line…possibly a slick-haired Dukie who destroyed the Missouri program.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 18, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I certainly hope not.
That man is just not muchof a coach in my opinion. He took a solid MO Tiger program and put it on it’s last legs. This man is NOT who we need or want or should even care about.
Sometimes the obvious is hidden.
by frankenhoops on Jun 18, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hardly ever watch the Timberwolves but I say this that team isn’t going to turn anything around until McHale was outta there it had to of been done even if he looked OK at parts of last season.
"If at first you don't succeed - Skydiving isn't for you"
by Zoxide on Jun 18, 2009 8:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Great write up.
Not much a person can add to that. It is very nice that the FO has a professional feel to it right now. Good or bad… it’s just nice to have the head guy that seems to be in control of what is going on.
It is kind of exciting. Now the McHale is out, there is a sense that new things are actually on the horizon. Now we’ll just have to see what the FO has in mind with trades, drafts, coaches, etc. There are a lot of things to look forward to in the next several weeks.
by Krotz the Wall on Jun 18, 2009 8:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
It’s almost like ending a bad relationship and going back out on the town for the first time.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 18, 2009 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What we'll miss about McHale
I agree that McHale’s coaching virtues are still difficult to assess given the injuries and relatively small sample size. Is he better than Casey? Did Casey get the same shot even as McHale?
Be that as it may, I think the thing the Wolves will miss most about McHale is the coaching he provided to Big Al and Love. Perhaps more than anyone else, McHale is responsible for those guys improving, and my hope is that whoever comes in as the new HC will bring along another outstanding big man coach.
The last thing I will say is that I’m very intrigued by the Mark Jackson innuendos floating around out there. I always loved him as a player, and I think he could be a guy who players respect, perhaps would get along well with, and also importantly, demonstrate great leadership from the side of the court. Especially if we do end up drafting a young starting PG, if we have to roll the dice on a relatively unknown HC, why not go with a former crafty PG?
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Jun 18, 2009 9:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
First of all, I’ve been reading this blog for about 6 months and am a huge fan. Excellent analyses and clearly the staff here has good taste in music and politics…But enough back-slapping…
I count myself among those who HATED the Kahn hire at first but I must say he is winning me over. He was able to very quickly come into this situation and calmly assess the problems both historically and currently with this franchise and has been addressing them slowly but surely. This concerned me at first as I thought he would slowly be sucked into the Country Club vortex but by axing McHale and putting some pretty bold rumors out there about dramatic roster changes, I’m feeling that for the first time ever in this franchise’s history we may actually have someone with a strong, centralized vision for this team.
We all know the McHale failings ad nauseam, but to me his reign will be remembered most of all as an era of patchwork, reactionary moves that reminded me of a person who keeps getting a new credit card to pay off the old ones…Essentially, we had a Ponzi franchise and McHale was our Madoff. Each move seemed to try to overcompensate for some previous error leading to a never-ending stream of bad contracts and odd rosters. Coaching ability aside, McHale’s legacy is such and Kahn was able to recognize this and had the balls to come in and end it. It can’t be too easy telling a 6-11 hall of famer that he’s not welcome anymore…
Obviously I’m withholding any further judgement on Kahn until we see some personnel moves but as far as running the team and laying the groundwork for re-birth, so far, so good.
by OkieWolf on Jun 18, 2009 9:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
In McHale's defense...
there were two, unforeseeable events that kept the Wolves from winning a championship, under his reign as VP.
1) KG turned down the 7 year, $102 Million offer (I think those were the numbers?) that Taylor made in 1997, or whenever that was. It was the first, and probably the only time that Minnesota hated Kevin Garnett—even if it only lasted for a few days, until the offer bumped up to the $120+ Million range. This helped lead to the next, more destructive event…
2) Stephon Marbury became Starbury and demanded a trade to the East Coast. This seemed to be partially because of jealousy toward KG (his best buddy when he joined the team, and a big reason why we traded Ray Allen to bring him in) and partially because he was homesick. I’m sure Marbury would have done a few stupid things and thrown a few truck parties on 1st Ave, had he stayed in Minnesota. But, I also think that he and Garnett, if they continued to grow together, would have taken 1 or 2 of Tim Duncan’s championship rings along the way.
Obviously, McHale made countless mistakes after 1998, but KG and Marbury was his big vision, and when that blew up, his big chance to succeed as an executive fell apart in a hurry.
by Andy G on Jun 18, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Things Fell Apart
Once they made the misjudgement of trying to rebuild following the collaspe of the MV3. McHale was a reasonably respected GM up until this point that had plenty of things working against him (Starbury, Joe Smith, KG’s Contract). The problem is had they traded KG in 2005 (When they should have) instead of 2007- the Public would have rioted. This time period was when the wheels fell-off the Kevin McHale era (Marko, Ricky Davis, Mike James). The Hudson and Hassell signings were kind of difficult to not do at the time they came up considering thier roles in Playoff Success.
by Jose Cordoba on Jun 18, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And (if I’m not mistaken) Hudson and Hassell were two of KG’s favorites. He was a much better power forward than evaluator of talent. (The same can be said for McHale.)
by Andy G on Jun 18, 2009 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with Andy...
The Joe Smith and TB contracts were reactionary moves based off of losing Googs and Marbury. After they got Marbury, he thought his core was there, so he set out to add complementary players instead of trying to stockpile talent on a team that hadn’t even won 50 games. Then, Googs said he was out, and McHale panicked. His inability to adjust his long-term plan was the issue. They were scared of losing Brandon in the summer of ’99, so they drafted Will Avery. He was scared of losing Smith, so he (or Taylor) made a colossal boner. Even drafting Wally was because he was the best shooter, not necessary the best player. He was able to fill in the gaps, but there was never a plan.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jun 18, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Hudson and Hassell signings...
Failed to consider the way the Wolves had acquired players and the coming changes in the defensive rules. The Wolves acquired guys on the cheap, got them to play hard for 1-3 years, then sent them off to make more and replaced them with another good but cheap player. They could’ve replaced Hudson with Damon Jones for half the cost and been just as good or better. They could’ve replaced Hassell the same way and achieved the same effect. It’s McHale’s fault because he didn’t make moves in the best interest of the franchise. KG would’ve gotten over it if the team had been winning.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jun 18, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The T-Hud contract extension was brutal
T-Hud basically didn’t play the entire WCF year. He only ever got back in the game and got some burn after Cassell got hurt, and, this is important to note, we LOST all of Hudson’s big games. Then we signed Hudson to a big deal but had nothing left for Cassell and Sprewell, who, it should be noted, were two of the three guys who CARRIED that team all year long. But no, let’s reward T-Hud! We really liked the way you looked rehabbing your ankle on the bench for an entire year, and your rap album is great! We’ll never tire of your antics.
Hassell they overpaid badly too, but that one didn’t offend me nearly as much as Hudson.
by princelyfrank on Jun 18, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just want to make clear
that despite being an obviously perceptive and intelligent person, this individual is not related to me in any way, and I have not met this person and discussed my performance prior to this posting.
June 4th, 2009: "I wouldn't say in a month, but I'd be stunned if it doesn't look a lot different in the next 17 months."
by Definitely Not David Kahn on Jun 18, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks..
…OkieWolf. Much appreciated. Are you actually from Oklahoma or are you a Thunder fan in waiting? I have family scattered across the state from Enid to Wewoka to Lawton to parts in between.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 18, 2009 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Transplanted Okie
I’m originally from MN but have been living in Tulsa for 6 or 7 years and can assure you I am NOT a Thunder fan in any way, shape, or form. Mostly because I’ve been a Wolves fan since their inception but also because I refuse to root for teams that have been stolen by sleazy owners (largely because of the scarring left over from Norm Green). I may form the entire Wolves contingent in this state unless your relatives are fans…
If I’m not mistaken Kahn was involved with the Tulsa 66ers in the recent past but I have no recollection of him as they are probably less popular here than junior high football.
Keep up the great posts and I’ll look for some little birdies with Thunder connections….
by OkieWolf on Jun 18, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The relatives are...
…most definitely not fans.
We love Tulsa. We had friends who just moved to Fort Worth who we used to visit there every year and we used to go to the zoo there with the creationism exhibit that was put up right next to Ganesh. Do you know if they still have that? I also have a friend from the military whose great grandfather was displaced in the race riot and we got a tour around the part of town where the worst action went down. I don’t know how much you like the city but it’s one of the more overlooked places in that part of the country. Interesting history, nice neighborhoods (if you know where to look), and a better-than-expected place to live. I think I even went to the Oklahoma Jazz Museum there if I remember correctly.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 18, 2009 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lots of people here love Oral...
…Roberts so the creationism deal at the zoo wouldn’t surprise me. I could do without the religion and the right-wingers but it’s a pretty decent place to live. There is an incredible collection of art deco architecture from the oil boom days and there’s a really cool old ballroom called “Cain’s” where Bob Wills & the Texas Playboys made western swing music famous that serves as the main music venue these days. But I’d say the worst thing is that Oklahoma has some of the weirdest blue laws concerning alcohol and as a result most of the beer here is 3.2%.
by OkieWolf on Jun 18, 2009 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Take me back to Tulsa
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFzW55_a51U
Tulsa was a swinging place back then.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 18, 2009 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great write-up.
I agree that anything that doesn’t immediately smack of bitterness and powerplay in this whole process should qualify as a feather in the cap of David Kahn. Arguably one of the most maligned FO figures in the game seems to have pushed back against his presence, and with a bullet full of guns, Kahn chose to be professional and measured. Kudos for ending the waiting game and for directing the eyes of fans and players both to the court and not to the bench.
Chad Ford is reporting a rumor about a Wolves package for the second pick that involve all of our first round picks for the second (and Ricky Rubio). I for one hope that it’s true, as I think that Rubio and Love would become one of the great pick-and-roll tandems in the league and lend stability to an offense that too easily falls back on waiting for Al to do something. I also think that a great pass-first point guard is likely to make it easier to add, down the line, more pieces through free agency. I realize this might cost us a shot at a decent prospect at 18, although it seems to me that you take a proven professional with a sky-high ceiling over the chance to be right on two unproven amateurs.
by TheH on Jun 18, 2009 9:22 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If Memphis wants those picks- more power to them.
by Jose Cordoba on Jun 18, 2009 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
… guaranteed contracts like that in a weak draft? I’m not thrilled with the idea of having to pay the 28 pick in this draft. My guess is that Memphis will want something else. Although I would be thrilled for them to get Kahned into it, thereby inaugurating a host of Minnesota slogans that arguably trump the proverbial Pritch-slap.
by TheH on Jun 18, 2009 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you believe that Rubio..
….is the guy, and Memphis is willing to take those picks, you jump at it. The chances of #2 working out as a star or solid player are 85% at the 2 spot compared to much lower numbers at 6, 18, and 28:
http://82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm
That being said, it all depends on what they see in the guy and if Memphis is willing to do that. I don’t think they would be. They are already a ridiculously young team. Although, they probably could trade down to 6, draft Jordan Hill and get what they need. I just don’t know if they’d have much of a use for the other 2 picks on a younger team than the Wolves.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 18, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You might want to wine & dine Rubio
Or else you might not get a chance at getting him to believe he’s going to grow up with a young roster. Ha.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 18, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some Rubio quotes surfaced somewhere...
that the only thing he cares about (for who drafts him) is playing time. That was comforting, if we do trade up to 2 or 4 to take him. Sounds like a good kid who would be fine in Minnesota.
by Andy G on Jun 18, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
On Sacbee.com
Go there, and you’ll get all the love you could ever care for. I promise you. I’m a Kings fan, I’ve stumped Rubio over Blake Griffin for 6 months, and it’s making me nauseous.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 18, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Over Blake Griffin even?
Griffin would be awfully hard to pass on. He’s built like a Cylon.
by princelyfrank on Jun 18, 2009 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rubio..
…will love whatever team takes him in the highest spot to help out with that buyout.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 18, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yuh
That be pretty much it. it would be ideal for Rubio if he was picked 2nd and Sac traded for him. That would be his ideal scenario I believe. Oh well, we’ll see.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 18, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kahn's a lawyer.
I don’t like lawyers… but he’s our lawyer. He’s the one trying to get us off this murder rap on a technicality, skewering the mistakes of the prosecution while acting like a generally nice fellow. Watching him work with the media is a thing of beauty, even if it makes me a little sick to my stomach listening to it.
I like having him on our side… so far. I’m waiting to see what happens around the draft and with the coaching situation before the love affair starts. He’s definitely on the right track so far.
by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on Jun 18, 2009 9:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
CNN.SI rumor...AL + #6 for Amare
An NBA executive told the Boston Globe that the Minnesota Timberwolves is working a deal with the Phoenix Suns that would send former Celtics forward Al Jefferson and their sixth pick in next week’s NBA Draft for All-Star Amare Stoudemire. The Suns, which have dangled Stoudemire for some time, found a suitor in Minnesota that is in transition. The team announced today that coach Kevin McHale has ended his 15-year association with the team. New basketball of operations David Kahn is looking to take the franchise into another direction.
by DougW on Jun 18, 2009 9:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This better be bogus
I think Big Al is at least equal to Amare in value and thus giving up our 6th round pick with Al would be a horrible move.
by GreasyLlama on Jun 18, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolute yuck. I don’t think I’d swap Al straight up for Amare. Without Nash on that team, he’s a 22/8 guy who plays no D. I’d rather stick with our own 23/11 guy who plays no D and is 3-4 years younger.
by Xand1 on Jun 18, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amare could be okay...
… if we also added Rubio, who’s supposed to be the next Nash, but we won’t have any chance of landing Rubio if we trade number six. If we somehow landed both Rubio and STAT (god, I hate that nickname), we better hope that those Mike Fratello rumors aren’t true. No one can put a stranglehold on the fastbreak like The Czar of the Telestrator (another awful nickname). By and large, though, I think this rumored deal would be dreadful for Minnesota.
Al > Amare
by Shogun on Jun 18, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I concur
Al for Amare straight up or Al and a less valuable pick, even. But they are comparable players, good scorers who don’t play defense. Al’s the better rebounder, and has the better attitude (this is based mostly on rumor and innuendo, but isn’t Amare widely disliked in his own locker room?).
by princelyfrank on Jun 18, 2009 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure if I love this deal unless, we can turn around and send Amare somewhere.
He’s a more athletic, less skilled version of Jefferson (although probably a better fit). Neither plays D, passes, or cares about much beyond their own stats.
by DougW on Jun 18, 2009 9:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Kahn = Trader Jack
SnP,
You did it man! I was trying to come up with a way to describe Kahn. You did it – Trader Jack with an east coast attitude!! Perfect. Just hope it does not end the same way.
You can also move “how much house cleaning” from the not sure to the for sure. There is going to be a huge turnover – not all from Kahn’s initiative. The guys are spending as much time working the phones for new jobs as they are on the draft. (If you know where to look, you may even find a few houses on the market!)
While I was typing this, Big Al + #6 for Amare would be the biggest blunder in our history. Amare has a huge ego – playing in MN is NOT going to work for him. Big Al genuinely wants to be here. I don’t see that big of difference in “net” effective between the 2. I would certainly NOT do that trade.
by Just A Fan on Jun 18, 2009 9:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed..
…on the Big Al + 6 for Amare. Maybe straight up, but not with the 6th pick. Even then, it’s questionable. I probably like Amare more than most people here but they need that 6th pick for a guard. I do think that Amare would be killer alongside of Love in an up-tempo D’Antoni style game. They just don’t have a guard to make it all work at the moment.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
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by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 18, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't say enough bad about this trade.
Jefferson’s a better defender and better rebounder. To throw in Number 6 considering Amare’s health also would be awful on several levels.
by Jose Cordoba on Jun 18, 2009 9:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I would say they are equally bad defenders, though Amare at least has the athletic ability to play good defense, equal in terms of health issues, and pretty much equal rebounders. Throwing in the #6 is bs, and seems unnecessary. I could live with it otherwise, because I am sure Amare would put up big stats, and improve his trade value.
by DougW on Jun 18, 2009 9:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Unless there’s some crazy pace-adjusted rebound rate stat I’m not aware of, I’m pretty sure they aren’t remotely equal as rebounders. Amare’s pathetic on that end given his physical talents. He’s also what, 26? It’s much less likely he all of the sudden learn to play D than someone of Al’s age/experience level.
by Xand1 on Jun 18, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amare vs Al
They are nowhere close to equal rebounders if you go by rebound rate. Amare’s issue is disintrest on this end of the court and he’s worse than Al (If one can believe this). This is why Al always owns the Suns. I can’t make medical assesments but Amare’s seemed to have a wider range of injuries than Al. This deal would be an unmitigated disaster.
by Jose Cordoba on Jun 18, 2009 10:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Dare I say
The Wolves did something smart. Is your Wolves fandom still safe SnP, or do we get to look forward to another of the 700 Thunder blogs already out there?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 18, 2009 10:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
My deadline...
….is still the 2009 trading deadline. If they haven’t utilized the expiring contracts or made a good use of this year’s draft picks, they’ve lost most of their currency to remake the squad and since I’m probably going to end up moving back to Oklahoma in the next 5 years anyway, I may as well start it as soon as possible.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
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by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 18, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
The 2009 trading deadline? Do you mean the trade deadline for the upcoming 09-10 season?
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 18, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah..
..that’s it.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 18, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What, Mankato isn't big enough to hold
your expanding-by-25% family?
by PoorDick on Jun 18, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone's blowing the Al/Amare stuff out of proportion.
The original Boston Globe report was a two paragraph piece of nothing and was already refuted by a Suns beat writer (which PoorDick brought up in the Fanpost). I really don’t think there’s anything to this.
by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on Jun 18, 2009 10:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'll say this
If I were Kahn (or if I were me, but I’d unexpectedly been hired as the Wolves GM), I would have fired the hell out of McHale and not felt bad about it at all. The question isn’t “Was McHale a decent coach?” or “Will the players improve under McHale?” or “What does McHale deserve from the Wolves?”
The question is this: “Is McHale the BEST coach for the Wolves right now?” Considering that he doesn’t seem to actually like coaching, that his long history with the franchise would’ve lead to all kind of messed-up dynamics, and that, really, there’s no evidence that he’s a better coach than his own assistants… why not bring in somebody else? Somebody with coaching experience? Is McHale better than Jeff Van Gundy or Bill Lambeer or Tom Thibedeau? Or any of McHale’s own assistants? “As good as” doesn’t cut it when you’re asking this question. Is McHale a better coach than any other coach in the NBA right now? Since Wittman doesn’t have a team right now, I’d say the answer is no. McHale is not clearly better than any other current NBA coach.
by princelyfrank on Jun 18, 2009 11:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Trade rumors
I think the reasons all these wild trade rumors are coming up is that 1) Kahn really is working the phones and researching every possible deal, angle, and possibility, and 2) the media types and most draft experts have no handle on what’s going to happen, so they’re just throwing stuff out there to see what sticks. I don’t even think our front office knows how things will play out. This draft is shaping up to be one of the most fluid in recent memory, with countless draft day trades potentially playing out. I just think Kahn and his team are doing scenario planning so that they are prepared for whatever opportunities present themselves next week. Until then, it’s all guesswork.
by Rascal Flatts on Jun 18, 2009 12:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Good point
Kahn probably made a priority of calling every team’s GM to establish a relationship and explain that he’s looking to shuffle his roster. It seems like the logical thing for any new GM to do, and given that it’s almost draft time, teams are interested in talking.
by Andy G on Jun 18, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great write-up, SnP
The Thunder don’t deserve you!
I think Kahn handled the situation about as well as anybody could. He was taking some time to familiarize himself with the team and the FO people before making a decision. I feel like he was waiting for McHale to make the first move; hoping he would resign in a “for the good of the team” scenario. McHale decided to go the passive/agressive route – not saying much, listening to the players lobby for him and hoping that PG would ride in to his rescue – thus, winning the first battle in a turf war with Kahn. Well, he underestimated The Wrath with that idea.
I think this speaks well for Kahn. He’s got a vision for the future and is working on ways to get there. All of these trade rumors speak to the fact that he’s leaving no stone unturned in his desire to improve the team. With a less-than-stellar draft class this year, the current economic uncertainties and the looming spectre of the CBA re-negotiations (and the posibility of a lockout??), it’s nice to have a GM whose prep work consists of more than talking with Danny Ainge or falling in love with a player who looked good at the Minneapolis bracket of the NCAAs.
by SoDakHmr on Jun 18, 2009 12:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
As usual...
Britt’s take on this is excellent.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jun 18, 2009 1:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well
I have settled down a bit from yesterday. I still have issues with the timing of McHale’s departure—I think it should have happened as soon as Kahn got the job—but the important thing is that it has happened, McHale is gone, and the team is no longer burdened with the weight of all the associated history of frustration and failure.
I think McHale is actually a pretty able coach, but there is just too much baggage from his time in the FO for him to ever be successful here witht he Wolves.
by Jackdaw on Jun 18, 2009 1:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
lol
Al Jefferson has always been injury proned. He won’t carry this team anywhere. Why can’t people see this?
by IHATEMCHALE on Jun 20, 2009 12:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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