David Kahn just called Al Jefferson this morning and assured him the Wolves are not trading him and the sixth pick to Phoenix for Amare Stoudemire.
The Boston Globe’s Marc Spears put the rumor up on his blog, but the Wolves have refuted it, saying the Suns called with the offer and Kahn turned it down.
I heard last night from a good source that a Jefferson-Stoudemire trade has definitely been talked about, but at this point lots of things always are talked about.
Jefferson and No. 6, though, seems like far too high a price to pay for a player who has been put out on a fire sale.
Here’s what I know: Kahn sure seems intent on making a big splash and I think anything’s possible.
No one on the roster is safe, and that includes Jefferson — who yesterday said he is well ahead of schedule on his rehab from knee surgery and expects to be ready for contact by August or September at the latest – if it’s the right deal.
From Zgoda at the Strib.
over 2 years ago
Stop-n-Pop
32 comments
0 recs |
Email
PrintComments
Jefferson for Stoudemire straight-up
still doesn’t make sense for a myriad of reasons already mentioned on the prior thread regarding this topic…..UNLESS….some 3rd team wants Stoudemire so badly, but doesn’t have what Phoenix is looking for in return (meaning a young and skilled big man w/o an attitude problem). If we’re playing the middleman here with a third team, then I’m keenly interested in who that third team might be and what they could give us that would make this deal attractive enough to pull the trigger. Any ideas?
I’d like to think the rumo is made up, but just for kicks I’ll toss my hat in the ring. How about the Warriors? They have a bunch of good, young talent that doesn’t seem to fit their system as well as a top pick. Would you contemplate moving Al and the #6 if it brought back the #7, Biedrins and Anthony Randolph? Maybe Phoenix includes their pick to go with Amare go the Warriors, we get the above package and Phoenix gets Al + #6. Still seems lopsided, and moving Al AND the pick seems ridiculous, but who knows..
Not sure how feasible that is, but the warriors are the only team I can think of who would both want Amare and have the assets to give enough back in return to be a part of a deal like this.
the warriors won’t just throw randolph and biedrins away for stat, especially not at the cost of the number 7. that’s an awful deal for us.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
Probably. Like I said, I was just winging it without looking to deep into the balance. It just points to how ridiculous the original “deal” was, honestly. The Wolves won’t just throw away Al and the #6 for anything less than 1) a player better than Al (which Amare isn’t, at least not by much) or 2) a very very attractive combo of players/picks.
yeah, that original deal was a slap in the face of the wolves. al and the number 6 should fetch a much better package than amare. i think for stat, the best you could get out of me would be biedrins and jack, and i’d want the suns to throw their pick in that deal (mostly because i love terrance williams), so it would amount to amare and terrance williams for biedrins and jack (and oddly enough, the suns are pretty weak at the wings right now, outside of barbosa and j-rich, and jack would be someone who could handle the ball well and take some pressure off nash). i’d be willing to sweeten that slightly with a future pick, but i think selling the farm for amare is a bad call. of course, the suns probably turn that down without much hesitation.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
I’m not against trading Al, but it would be nice to see how effective he’d be in the playoffs when the game slows down and teams without skilled post players are at a disadvantage.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jun 18, 2009 4:18 PM CDT reply actions
I love the irony of this trade. Jefferson has all the same flaws Amare does, yet all the kool aid drinkers here think he is a much better player.
I would imagine if you took a poll of the rest of the league, most would view the Wolves as getting the better end of a straight up Amare-Al deal. I personally do not like the guy at all, but as I said before, he would be a better fit. He’ll give you equivalent offensive production with a lot less touches and he can run the court.
Do you think he shoots anywhere near his absurdly inflated percentages without Nash on the court? That’s a huge variable to overlook in the equation.
Or
Maybe the fact he makes $5 Million more than Al per season and would likely only be here for a year. Or the fact that he has had problems getting along with teammates. I actually completely refute DougW’s proposed poll results, i think most would view Phoenix getting the better end of an Amare Al swap.
Or the fact that he’s nowhere near the rebounder on either end. Or that Stoudemire turns the ball over twice as often. Or that Jefferson blocks more shots. Or that Stoudemire doesn’t have a post-up game.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jun 18, 2009 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Agree with the refuting above.
Also like how we’re called kool aid drinkers for not wanting a guy coming off season-ending eye surgery. At this point, I think it’s safe to say we know what Amare is going to be for his career (just like you know Odom will never be consistent but when he’s good, he’s great). With Al, I think there’s still a lot of potential there. Maybe I’m wrong, but he seems to have a desire to get better, whereas Amare just wants to go where the grass is greener.
Back it up with stats:
PER:
Al 23.16
Ama’re 20.39
Wins produced per 48, through 41 games
Al .193
Ama’re .125
Roland Rating
Al 5.4
Ama’re 5.2
Surrounding Cast
Al: Sebastian Telfair, Randy Foye, Mike Miller, Ryan Gomes, Kevin Love
Ama’re: Steve Nash, Leandro Barbarosa, Jason Richardson, Grant Hill, Shaquille O’Neal
Is there one metric that I’m missing, other than DougW’s intimate knowledge of the minds of NBA GMs?
Yes
The metric of the great basketball minds of Phoenix Suns nation. They have spoken, and it is conclusive.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Jun 18, 2009 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions
How about ratings
Offensive Rating / Defensive Rating
Al: 109 / 108
Ama’re: 117 / 111
This shows Ama’re to be the better offensive player, though if you mesh it with PER they’re probably about the same.
But even if you want to say that Ama’re is a little better player, the more important point is the one Ebomb mentioned: the contracts. Ama’re’s contract is done in a year, and if he’s healthy he’ll probably command more on the market than what he’s worth. Whereas Al has a very reasonable contract that’s in effect for the next four years. This wouldn’t be a good trade for the Wolves if it were just the players; including the #6 pick makes it awful.
My guess is that Steve Kerr (who seems to be as poor a GM as he was an analyst) was hoping he could pull a fast one on the new guy; I see it similar to that annoying guy in your fantasy league who thinks he knows more than he does trying to take advantage of a new owner. Hopefully Kahn laughed at him when he turned down the offer
Wins?
Cherry pick whatever stats you want. The fact is they’ve all been put up on terrible teams.
And when I say terrible, I mean worst team in the league terrible.
I think you guys are confusing my comparison of two overrated players as an endorsement of Amare. Not the case, at all.
I would say they are similar in terms of overall production. Jefferson is not clearly better. And Amare has made the All-star team the past three season as a reserve, so, yes, I do think there is a perception around the league that he is a better player.
Of course there’s a perception that he’s better. He scores more, plays on a better team and dunks a lot. If there was a better equation for leaguewide recognition, I haven’t seen it. The underlying stats, however, don’t back up that perception.
You’re right that Al isn’t clearly better, but neither is Amare. He’s a better finisher and his athletic style of high-post play gets him to the line more, but how much of that is due to playing with Nash? Also, can he match Al in raw shot-creating abilities when defenses key in on him? Without even bringing contract or attitude into the picture, I think I’d take Al in the playoffs because his ability to flat out create shots is going to be incredibly valuable in that type of situation.
Yes--correct.
I’m guessing if the people who decide the All-Star Alternates had to both pay and play the players chosen for an entire season, Al would get the vote every time.
In summary:
- the people here value Amare over Al (not true) , and we are kool-aid drinkers because of it (piling an accusation on top of a false assumption)
- the rest of the NBA value Amare over Al (possibly true)
- you value Amare over Al
That’s a rather strange post. You took some swings that seem contradictory (people here are kool-aid drinkers for their valuation, but the rest of the NBA and you agree with it?) and the first item is false.
How about a little humble pie? :) We post a little differently here than most fan forums. Respectful discussion and disagreement backed up by evidence or specifics as best we can.
I didn’t call you personally a kool aid drinker or say that everyone on this blog is one, but if you are one of the people that thinks that Al Jefferson is clearly better than Amare, then I would say you’ve been doing some sipping.
I am not sure if your first point is a typo, but it makes no sense. And please spare me the outrage. There was no disrespect intended in my comments. When were you appointed the etiquette czar of this blog?
Xand1…I agree with your comments, though I truly believe we’ll never sniff the playoffs with Jefferson as our #1 option. If we get some more horses and he adjusts his game (starts passing and playing D), then yes, it would be awesome to have a guy with his low post ability in tight games.
Sure, I can get behind that. Assuming you mean that we’ll never get there with Al as clearly our best player. I think if you get another guy near his level and then add some complementary talent, we could at least get there. But yeah, we barely had success in the playoffs with freakin KG as our best player, so I know what you mean. This team seriously needs talent.
kevin love is a real threat to be around al’s level soon. the problem is options 3-15 (or possibly 4-15 depending on your thoughts on foye, but i’m not sold on him as a 3rd option on a good team).
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
"I'm not sold on him as a 3rd option on a good team" . . .
is the most positive scouting report Randy Foye has received in quite a while.
ha, in fairness “good team” could mean 7-8th seed in the east, but mostly i just couldn’t remember how you guys felt about him and didn’t want to get into a lengthy discussion about randy foye, about whom i’m sure you know considerably more. i know there’s a lot of corey brewer related optimism that i don’t have a full grasp on, and it was possible there was a similar feeling about foye.
i’d say that foye’s ideal place on a contender is a first guard off the bench, who can play either the one or the two (but is better off the ball).
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
I think your apprisial is pretty accurate on Foye
As far as Brewer Optimism it seems to be pretty limited to Rev. and Myself.
The Optimism stems from several things
1. Greatly Improved Plus/Minus in limited minutes this season
2. He’s shown the ability to be a reasonably effective defender. The best example would be his work on Paul Pierce last season
3. He improved his handle enough to be able to do somethings in the lane.
4. I think his shooting PCTS are bound to improve enough to make him at useful contributor.
5. He looks to develop into a capable passer as a wing. His PPR this season was pretty solid in limited minutes.
by Jose Cordoba on Jun 20, 2009 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions
I hope you're right about Brewer
Hopefully his knee recovers fully and we can get a good look at him this season without the knee limiting him.
by princelyfrank on Jun 20, 2009 1:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Oops – I read that wrong. I thought you were writing that people here value Amare over Al.
I think they’re close in value. When I first saw Amare live against the Warriors a few years ago I thought he was the most vicious, athletic center I’ve ever seen live, he seemed like a Special player. But the more I read about him from coaches, teammates and people who follow the Suns, it appears he just isn’t a good person to have on your team. He focuses too much on himself and he’s stats focused. Plus he isn’t the same player as before the surgery.
Though I respect Amare’s talents I wouldn’t want him on my team – I don’t think he’ll ever be worth his salary cap hit. Al on the other hand is limited, but what he does he does very well and I think he’s a good teammate at a reasonable price.
I’ll take Amare over Al in a video game and Al over Amare in real life.
No doubt.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Jun 18, 2009 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Miller Contract Targets- Potential
1. Gerald Wallace
2. Luol Deng
3. Caron Butler
4. Tyson Chandler
5. Andrei Kirlenko
6. Monta Ellis
7. Jason Richardson
Salaries don’t work that neatly for all these players- so some will need filler ranging from Cardinal to a draft pick.
Crash would be the best player by far on this list. The rest is made up of injuries risks (Ellis, Deng, Chandler) Defensive Liabilities (Richardson, Butler), Ellis), or Way Overpaid ( AK 47).
I’m not sure who I’m leaving off that’s a potential get. Only that trading Miller’s contract for another player is going to be bring a longer contract of a player with serious concerns.
Good list
It will be very, very interesting to see what Kahny boy does with Miller. In some ways what he does with Miller will tell us more about what to expect from Kahn than whatever he does in the draft. He has stated (quite often, it seems, by now) that the Wolves will be more active in trades than in FA, and right now Miller has to be quite an attractive trade target in that he’s a pretty large expiring but he can actually still play and contribute for a season on whatever team he ends up on.
I’ll go on record right now that whatever Kahn does with Miller will provide more insight and foreshadowing into his legacy with the Wolves than whatever he does in the draft. (Now watch, he’ll manage to trade for Rubio—who will end up awesome—and completely make me look like an ass to the twelve people who’ll read this. But hey, I’ll be an ass if it means we get an awesome Rubio out of the deal :) ).
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Jun 18, 2009 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Canis Hoopus
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Next Game
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Days of NBA Lives: Wherein Roy Hibbert tap-dances to Maine
- Grizzlies Valentine’s Day cards are the key to love
- Kevin Love would like the NBA to take the MLB’s approach on All-Star games
- Kobe Bryant fires a few hilarious salvos at Jeremy Lin
- Brandon Jennings states the obvious regarding his 2014 free agency, everyone goes nuts
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
