The wildcard in all this are the Minnesota Timberwolves, who could throw a wrench in things by trading up to #2 to take Ricky Rubio. Sources say that Rubio’s camp has warmed up significantly to David Kahn and the Timberwolves organization as of late, and that they would not be opposed to him landing there. The catch is that the rookie scale salary slot of the #6 pick would not be sufficient in terms of satisfying Rubio’s gigantic buyout from DKV Joventut, so Kahn would have to trade into the top three to make that happen.
At this point, Kahn is holding firm on not putting Kevin Love on the table for the right to move up in the draft, and is instead trying to acquire another pick to entice Memphis to swap with them. As other media outlets have reported, they are targeting Washington’s #5 pick, but are only offering some combination of Randy Foye, Mike Miller and the #18 pick, which probably won’t get it done.
...
-According to an NBA source, super active Minnesota Timberwolves GM David Kahn has offered Mike Miller to the Los Angeles Clippers in exchange for Chris Kaman. The Clippers shot down that trade, but countered with Marcus Camby.
over 2 years ago
wyn
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Okay, my hopes are officially "up."
I’m perfectly fine with the Camby for Miller trade, even—but I’d keep Miller around until I was sure that he won’t be needed to go after Rubio.
Rubio/Bassy/(Calathes in the wings with the 28th pick)
Foye/Carney(?)/(Toney Douglas-type from the 2nd round)
Gomes/Brewer/(Daye at the 18th)
Love/AlJeff/Smith/Cardinal
AlJeff/Kaman
And Foye gets a message from the new coach: “Don’t think. Just act.”
I can't agree more..
Kahn will have my vote if he can land Rubio without giving up Love or Jefferson.
I’ll be ecstatic if he can pull of the deal listed below and get our first rounder back!
The uncertainty of this draft at least makes it very entertaining.
I like this vision of the future...
… although I think Mike Miller will somehow be involved with most plays for Rubio, which probably makes it tough to land both Rubio and Kaman (either is tough enough on its own). I would also highlight Danny Green at 28, as I think Calathes will be a smart pick either for a team looking for an underrated player in this draft (if there is one!) or for a team looking to keep up appearances while having the option of stashing a player overseas for a few years. It’s funny— stashing an American in Europe. We might be getting more used to this soon.
I would counter the counteroffer
So round one was MIN to LAC: Miller for Kaman
Round two was LAC to MIN: Miller for Camby
I would counter with Miller for Camby +MIN 1st returned.
Nice idea, but...
I don’t like Camby’s game enough to give up Miller. And next year, Camby jumps in the free agent pool. However, if the Wolves offered the expiring contracts of Cardinal and Foye — man, I would not hold up. Basically, the deal would give the Clippers two expiring contracts instead of one big one.
I’d much rather have Kaman. If there is any truth to these rumors, I am impressed, yet terrified, that Kahn is willing to take on a contract like Kaman’s (and pay Kaman’s trade kicker too) for a player who probably won’t ever be the 3rd best player on a championship team. Again, offer Cardinal & Foye for Kaman — it is the Clippers who are more desperate to dump salary.
I am also encouraged that Kahn is burning up the phone lines. But it seems highly unlikely that we pry either the #2 or another top pick away from a team(s) with any combination of Miller, Foye or #18. I know this a weak draft, but really, who trades a lottery pick for expiring contracts?
Love and Jefferson are the only valuable trading chips we have. Fortunately, at least one of them is expendable. Still hoping they keep Love.
The Key is to not force the issue
You might be able to take on a Bad Sac-Town contract at 4 (Nocioni or Beno) to assume Rubio at this point in the draft. If Rumors are true about Sac-Town being open to head another direction. I realize this wouldn’t be ideal but it’s a lot better solution than trading Kevin Love. Washingston would be in many ways the same if you assume Etan Thomas’s expiring or Deshawn Stevenson till 2011. The potential for a swap exists.
I’m not actually a huge fan of the Camby trade unless they were to get that first returned. I think Miller’s value could come in getting a player that goes beyond 2010 that a team is trying to unload. I realize you could do the same with Camby but since the Wolves are weaker on the wings than up-front I’d pass on this. I’m not nuts about Kaman’s health issues either- but this is the type of trade that makes sense with Miller’s contract.
The Sac deal might be doable, but don’t we tip our hand by doing that? What keeps the teams at #3-4 from picking Rubio and extracting another pick out of us? I think you’ve got to get the #2 if you really want Rubio.
I agree on the Camby deal, expiring for expiring, is just spinning our wheels. And no way LAC gives up a future first to save a few bucks this season.
Rubio or bust.
I think Kahn is going all in on this kid.
The key to building a team
is to not get hung up on one guy. My God, the Wolves need help everywhere but PF! If we somehow manage to get two lottery picks without giving up Love, use them to build the team. How about Curry AND Evans? No? How about Harden AND Lawson? I would take pretty much any two guys from the Hoopus mock draft over Rubio.
I think the problem Kahn is facing...
… at least in part is the name recognition he sees as necessary in the rebuilding of the fan base. None of the players in this draft outside of Griffin and Rubio have quite the same caché. And while I agree that there are a number of two-player combinations worth more than any single piece in the lottery, I have to think that this is on his mind. Just trying to voice a hunch about how Kahn is going to play this one. I also think that Rubio’s strengths might enhance the remainder of the roster in place a bit more than, say, Evans’
Good points
Don’t overlook two things in this: off court financial implications will still trounce on-court concerns. And Rubio’s youth buys Kahn more time to assemble a new roster. I prefer this tack immensely to adding Hinrich-AK-Dalembaert to try to get to 45 wins.
Plenty of wild cards in dealing with Memphis
beyond the Love/Mayo trade, and the notion that they and the Wolves are in the same conference with and at a similar point in their respective development.
After the perceived snubbing that the Griz are getting from Rubio and Thabeet, in an effort to save face I could see Memphis (stupidly) keeping the 2nd pick and drafting Evans, saying “This is the guy we wanted all along.” Then Rubio could not only go to the teams at the 3-4-5 spots, but allow another team to jump ahead of the Wolves. Finally, the farther Rubio falls, the less likely it is that he will earn enough to offset the buyout, dampening his financial situation at least for the short-term.
So! The optimal probable situation: Minnesota gets the 2nd pick for anything but Love and AlJeff, and drafts Rubio.
Poor Dick's got the right idea
If Memphis- takes Rubio they’re probably going to trade him. So then take Evans at 6 and hope to work something out along these lines. You could also assume Greg Buckner’s contract if you’re really trying to close the deal. You totally screw up your Cap Space- but Rubio’s maybe got more potential than anyone you could acquire with it anyway.
To Memp:
Tyreke Evans
Pick 18
Brian Cardinal
To MN:
Ricky Rubio
Marko
Funny Note- The Grizzles 5 Highest Paid players last year were: Antoine Walker, Darko, Marko, Mayo, and Greg Buckner.
- Just don’t trade Kevin Love!!!!
The cap space issue is an interesting one
in light of Kahn’s comments on how much the roster needs to be made over. As I understand it, and in theory anyway, the Wolves could go into the 2010-11 season with just Al Jefferson under contract. Now, of course they’ll keep Love on the team (barring a trade), and likely have Gomes, Bassy, and Brewer in the fold somehow, and probably a pick or two from this year and next.
But one of the big motivators for moving the 5 and 6 pick to get the 2nd, is that the Wolves would save about $1.5 million in salary per year over what they would pay the 5 and 6 pick combined.
When it comes to the Ways of the Wolves, always Follow the Money.
if we can git rubio im down
but it does seem like a lot ta give up mayn
essentially we’ll be giving:
Stephen Curry, Evans/Harden, Foye, Miller, and exprings for rubio?! i might juss wait ta see if he drops pass sacto den take rubio + curry an den we would be wayyyyyyy too thowed.
if khan pulls DAT off ima love him mayn pause
MAYN HOL UP!
@MAYN
2 things….
1. What in the bloody hell does “thowed” mean?
2. Pause for what? Your next hooked on phonics post?
Maynholup has a long and proud...
….Hoopus tradition. You can also read his Z-Ro column at Cocaine Blunts:
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Yes.
He’s like cayenne pepper in a recipe. Would I want to eat a whole bowl full of Mayn? No. But sprinkled in among us more-pedestrian posters, it’s just right.
Better question:
Would you smoke a bowl full of Mayn?
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hella yeah
As a new member of this community I’ve been enjoying maynholup for the pure, unbrdiled absurd mystery of it all. May it never be fully explained…
I like the idea of...
doing a deal with the Wiz and packaging up 5 & 6, but if the Wiz are baulking at Miller, Foye and 18 then chances are we can’t get that done.
- I have a suspicion that we are going to be dealing with OKC for Rubio with Chris Wallace throwing his hands in the air and just drafting Thabeet at 2 straight up.
- I don’t see how this happens without moving Love if we can’t get our hands on 5. The rumours that Kahn is trying to trade for Kaman (or Camby) makes me think this is a “post-Love” contingency which sends Al back to PF and has an ex-Clipper starting at 5.
At this point our expectations are out of hand
It’s great that Kahn’s on the horn and trying to pry things loose. The usual boards, though, are entirely out of hand right now. We’re expecting to land Rubio and Thabeet without giving up more than Miller and the #18 along the way, or something. Anything less than Flynn and Evans, and we’ll be let down.
Simply drafting capably at #6, right now, would be a letdown to a lot of us. Isn’t that still the most likely outcome?
I agree
Every fantasy scenario of trading up to #2 or drafting two players in the top 6 involve securing #5 from Washington and that seems to be unlikely. I am all for exploring it, but at the end of the day, trades like this are difficult to consummate.
There are definitely enough points...
…in this draft to make 6 a good pick by itself. I do have a weird urge to suddenly back the idea of picking Jennings straight up with the 6th pick. I’m not really sure why.
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This is well put
I’ve been doubtful about acquiring another top pick all along, because those picks rarely get traded for anything but an all-star caliber player.
On a related note, I would caution against expecting too much even out of a well-executed draft pick at #6. That player is unlikely to become a star. I’m hoping for a contributor. This is going to be a long road back, I fear.
I am glad that it appears Kahn is aggressive. My sense was always that McHale was quite passive. I’d rather he make mistakes of commission, I guess, because I agree with his assessment that this roster needs massive overhaul. I don’t think they are close.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 22, 2009 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions
We need one Great Player
At least Kahn is trying – but a good pick at #6 will be fine.
Part of an NBA franchise becoming a championship contender is that they turn #6 picks (and lower) into star players – so even though it is hard to do, I want this FO to do it.
Of the Evans, Flynn, Jennings, Curry / whoever is available at #6 slew I bet that one of them will become a star, maybe only one, but at least one. Well this management team has all the scouts and they’re going over to Europe and conducting the workouts and watching hundreds of hours of tape. Dammit – pick the player who will be special.
Or if none of them are going to be but Rubio will be special, then trade whoever you have to (even Love) to get him. They do have the assets to make this happen and though I might complain now at whatever deal or pick they make, I want a leader who will make the right call more often than not and gamble big. In the NBA it is always best to take the high risk/reward pick when you are a team on the bottom. If it busts you just get more high draft picks. But if you take mid-level players you never make it to the top and you get mediocre draft picks.
Kahn, Godspeed You! Black Emperor
Knicks offer to Washington for #5
From Chad Fraud at four letter:
Second, the Knicks have had talks with the Wizards about acquiring the No. 5 pick. If the Knicks draft a point guard there, they’d likely go in another direction with their second first-round pick. Their offer was Larry Hughes for Etan Thomas and Mike James and the fifth pick. The Wizards were once high on Hughes and are in the market for a veteran player who can propel the team to a championship right now. They’d save some money in the deal, get a player who could help them … but is that enough for the No. 5 pick?
How could we NOT beat that? Miller + 18 or 28 has GOT to be enough for them. Heck, through in Craig Smith or Foye if they want him too. If this rumor is legit and Kahn can’t beat it, then he’s not even trying…
They must have really enjoyed their time..
….with Hughes.
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I'm a bit curious as to this one also
My only thinking would be they like the idea of having a combo-guard who can play some point and somewhat defend play with Arenas. The Wizards also would only be moving down 3 spots as opposed to 13. So the Wizards could target- I’m not sure?? They’re a worse defensive team than the Wolves (Jamison, Butler, and Arenas are all bad) So if you could get a capable 1/2 combo that could allow Arenas to play off the ball some while also defending this player would seem to have some value or a Physical 4. So this would seem to leave (Henderson, Holiday, T.Williams, J.Hill)
The most important thing for the Wolves assume Stevenson’s contract since it goes beyond 2010. They’re probably not as eager to unload Songalia. This probably has more value than giving the Wizards Foye
So something like:
To Was:
Mike Miller
Mark Madsen
Number 18
To MN:
Deshawn Stevenson
Number 5
Etan Thomas
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