Rubio's agent, Dan Fegan, is an experienced negotiator who will likely get Rubio to a bigger market. Rubio's father said on Friday that his son could remain in Europe. One report yesterday quoted a "consultant for Rubio's (European-based) agency" as taking credit for suggesting to Rubio's parents that the Knicks is the best team for the 19-year-old point guard.
Turns out that the consultant is none other than Tim Shea, a former Knicks European scout, who is responsible for one of the most infamous first round picks in club history. What the report conveniently failed to mention is that Shea's claim to fame is that he is suggested that the Knicks draft Frederic Weis 10 years ago. Under Shea's watch in New York, the Knicks had two Euros: Weis and the incomparable Mirsad Turkcan.
From the NY Daily News.
7 months ago
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Rubio’s agent, Dan Fegan, is an experienced negotiator who will likely get Rubio to a bigger market.
Just like he kept Yi Jianlin out of Milwaukee! Or are we giving Fegan credit that Yi is in fact a bad NBA player and about 5 years older than advertised?
by jianfu on Jun 28, 2009 11:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to know what bigger market he could go to
Here are the top 14 media markets in the US:
# New York City, New York
- Los Angeles, California
- Chicago, Illinois
- San Francisco, California
- Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
- Dallas/Fort Worth, Texas
# Washington, District of Columbia
# Boston, Massachusetts
# Miami, Florida
# Detroit, Michigan
# Houston, Texas
# Phoenix, Arizona
# Seattle, Washington - Minneapolis, Minnesota
I crossed out Seattle because they are in Okie-land. Phoenix is gone because they don’t have anything to offer outside of Amare (actually, they have an attractive unprotected pick, but that’s probably not going to happen). Houston is rumored to be the team that offered up everybody but Yao and was turned down. I crossed out Detroit because seriously…it’s Detroit. Miami doesn’t have anything to offer that the Wolves need. Boston = Rondo and that isn’t going to happen unless they can get him to agree to resign a’la Big Al. The Wiz aren’t going to make another trade with the Wolves when they could have just drafted him. ….well, you get the picture…there really aren’t that many places for him to realistically go.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 28, 2009 11:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Phoenix and Golden State seem like two probable destinations. GS had the assets and Phoenix seems like a no brainer with Nash mentoring Rubio. GS could offer Curry/Randolph or Curry/Biedrins…Phoenix would have to be a combo of picks and maybe Robin Lopez.
by DougW on Jun 29, 2009 6:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Golden State is on the record
as saying Curry “may as well unpack” and they have resisted moving him for Amare to date. I doubt he is going anywhere.
by Auswolf on Jun 29, 2009 7:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d be very very reticent to move him, because I think there’s almost zero chance you get back equal value given that we are valuing his potential while other teams will probably play the “he’s an unproven rookie” card. With that said, if it reaches that point, I’d have to at least think about something built around Beasley (and maybe Chalmers) and something like Holiday/Young from Philly.
Unfortunatey I doubt either team offers up more proven players for a rookie with contract issues, but that’s the type of package I’d want in return.
Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.
by Xand1 on Jun 29, 2009 7:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can sub Monta Ellis for Curry if you think they’d rather keep him. Plus, I’m sure there is some lingering bad blood with that whole Ellis injury issue last year. I’d heard a Beasley for Rubio swap proposed somewhere…and I think Miami does that deal. Young/Holliday doesn’t sound terrible either.
As I’ve said, it’s really not a question of should we move him, but if he’ll play here. And I think as long as we get back value exceeding any of the other guys we could have taken instead of Rubio (Curry, Hill, Derozan, etc) it is an obvious win.
I’d love to see Rubio in a Wolves uniform, but I am going to assume it is less than certain until it happens. I just want to see the Wolves maximize his value…and his value if he never plays here is ZERO.
by DougW on Jun 29, 2009 8:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Knicks/Rubio
is all pointless. They have nothing that we really want. Wilson Chandler and his per of 12.9- Pass, Danilo Galinari’s back- Pass. The only way a trade works would be a three-way involving David Lee and Nate Robinson that really makes no sense since both are FA’s anyway. How the Knicks would pull that off without Cap Space is a mystery.
by Jose Cordoba on Jun 28, 2009 11:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Seriously. Waiting is the hardest part
but it’s the best way to go. If Rubio stays overseas indefinitely, one of two things happens. Either he’s as good or better than expected, and the value of his rights skyrocket. Or, he was Sid Finch all over again, and the Wolves dodge a bullet by never bringing him over.
The sweetest thing about all this? If you want to know anything about what the Wolves will do, follow the money. With Rubio overseas for who knows how long, it saves the Wolves the cost of his salary. So the carrying cost of the asset is near zero. It’s kind of like owning raw land near the Mall of America, on which you’re paying no property taxes.
Rooting for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 10:20 a.m. on June 24th, 2009
by PoorDick on Jun 28, 2009 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I should say keeping Cap Space in 2010.
by Jose Cordoba on Jun 28, 2009 11:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It should be pointed out
that the first part of this article, not quoted here, is a fairly clear headed discussion of the fact that the Knicks don’t have the pieces to get it done.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 28, 2009 11:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He also states the Wolves decision to pick Rubio is “looking better by the minute.” Shocking!
by jianfu on Jun 28, 2009 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When in doubt
Think it out.
Following the money is also a good rule, but in this case thinking it through logically is a great first practice.
My own checklist is first, who are the sources or positions of influence and what did they actually say? You can read any number of ESPN reports and realize that much of what is reported to sound like fact is in fact stuff that is inferred by the writer, or worse yet, construed to make a better story.
Step two for me is looking at who gains something (or its correllary, What is the cost?) All these rumors about Rubio wanting to be in NY stunk of this from minute one, and this test raised the alarm on multiple fronts—the Knicks would profit disproportionately (red flag one) from a talent standpoint, especially because they have no valuable assets to trade (red flag two). Furthermore, the media profits from the continued story of the woe-be-gone TWolves meme (redflag three). Donnie Walsh (or the Knicks in general) also position themselves to ward off fan malcontent by trying to get Rubio when they could have traded with Washington and didn’t (redflag four), and finally it comes out that a (former?) Knicks scout started the story, ostensibly to save his own job or reputation (redflag five). At no point did Ricky talk about wanting to not play in Minnesota or wanting to force a trade (redflag six in debunking this), and neither did his agent (red flag seven).
The last step, for me anyways, is to follow Occam’s Razor: the simplest solution is the best or most likely Solution. If we look at what logically might explain the motivations behind the comments of primary sources to begin with (in this case, Rubio, Fegan, Kahn, etc.) we’ll find it is all so vague—maybe we’ll play in Europe or listen to other offers, maybe we should play in a larger market, maybe Ricky really does want to play in the NBA. Does this sound like someone forcing a trade? Does this sound like the Yi scenario? The big one for me is where’s the agent trumpeting his client’s demands? And where’s Kahn? Kahn’s biggest comment lately is “No comment,” which we all know is foreshadowing for “Big comment coming soon.” To me, the simplest solution is that this is posturing, bluffing, establishing a pecking order and what the dynamics of the negotiating relationship are going to be like, and so forth. Unless Kahn for some reason caves and trades Rubio, which there is absolutely no evidence to point to that (I think Love would be gone before Rubio, at least this year), Rubio’s NBA dreams go through the hardwood at 600 First Avenue.
My best guess? Fegan is quiet right now because he’s doing his due diligence on Minnesota and Kahn, he’s trying to assess the marketing possibilities here, and he’s also leveraging everything he can to get past the single biggest hurdle for his client right now, and that’s the huge buyout. I think that’s the real story here, and nothing else will happen until that is cleared up one way or the other.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Jun 28, 2009 11:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the apparent ignorance of the buyout/#5 pick slot money issue is almost comical. Maybe that’s not as sexy a story as “The Knicks are about to Officially Enter the Ricky Rubio Sweepstakes” stuff.
Put it this way, if the Wolves had folded to the Grizzlies and traded up to #2, I think Ricky Rubio is at the press conference with a big smile on his face.
by jianfu on Jun 29, 2009 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Occam's Razor
I love Occam’s Razor. What a simple and yet great method to live one’s life. Great comment biggity2bit.
by College Wolf on Jun 29, 2009 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great comment
I just hate waiting!! Does anyone know if there is a deadline date for sorting the buyout saga out?
by easeus on Jun 29, 2009 12:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well one deadline is July 1..
that is the point in the season in which his buyout increases to US$8.8mil.
If arbitration fails (and it well might as this buyout is linked to Joventut’s tax debt) the matter is set for court in October on the basis that the buyout is disproportionate to his salary.
by Auswolf on Jun 29, 2009 12:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade Rubio
If they offer Nate Robinson with anyone else. Nate and Flynn are two fun loving guys that could get the Wolves fans back into the sport. Because honestly we are not going to go from this bad to a title in 3-4 years…let us at least get to the playoffs!
by y2jayjk on Jun 29, 2009 12:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
lol
i do agree we shouldn’t have drafted/should trade Rubio as soon as reasonably possible.
BetterLaettner
by BetterLaettnerThanRider on Jun 29, 2009 2:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which one?
I can’t see how you let him slide…
or why you should let him walk…
by Auswolf on Jun 29, 2009 4:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mock Prediction 1.0.
RR will play with the Wolves next year. Reasoning: You don’t make a trip to the green room is you aren’t serious about playing in the NBA. Pre-draft talk had RR not wanting to go to Memphis and OKC. He knew he wasn’t going to the Clippers. And now he also didin’t wnat to go to the Wolves? Thus, he was only banking on Sacramento to draft him or he goes as a 7th+ pick? Fegan doesn’t represent him in Europe and won’t get paid if RR is dribble nuts in Instanbul. Spanish tax collectors will accept reduced a payment plan from RR’s team and the team, in turn,will acccept a reduced payment plan from Ricky. Chad Ford went to 6.0 on his mock’s, didn’t he?
by Elastico on Jun 29, 2009 6:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree, but let's play Devil's Advocate
Fegan will still be counting on Kahn blinking. Does he go slow on the buyout, let it run through the courts from October and place a natural barrier on joining – “There’s a process to go through in the courts”.
As patient as Minnesota are, Rubio is 18. Does he suggest the “Nuclear Option”, have him drop out for 2011/12 season and extinguish the Wolves rights. Rubio may be no nearer to getting to NY at age 21, but Minnesota have lost him also.
If the visit occurred, it’s a good sign overall.
My gut feeling is he does suit up for the Wolves, but not this season. If Fegan sits down with Kahn this time next year and Kahn is relaxed and still willing to wait, then the game may well be up. Plus the buyout is less of an issue at this point.
by Auswolf on Jun 29, 2009 7:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nuclear fallout
There’s always the risk that if Ricky goes with the nuclear option he’ll burn more bridges than he opens up. Almost always when an athlete goes to that length to separate himself from a team the cost ends up higher than the reward, either because of the PR hit or because other teams become very wary about investing that much in a player who will go to such great lengths to get their way. Elway is the most successful that I can think of, with Eli being next on the list. Eli almost bombed, but at least the Giants actually had a worthwhile asset to trade in his case (Philip Rivers).
Following the money, if Fegan is Rubio’s biggest advocate (haven’t heard anything about Spanish agents—does RR have any? He must, right? Who’s fielding the offers from other teams?), then it would make sense that Ricky will end up here sooner rather than later, if for no other reason than a Golden Endorsement Cow awaits the minute Ricky signs a contract here.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Jun 29, 2009 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not just a bargaining position
and I hope it doesn’t come to this, but I would much rather have the Wolves force Rubio to sit a year to get out from under their rights, and let him re-enter the draft, rather than give in to the perceived threat that he might do that, and trade him because of it.
Of course, my next hope is that they then trade every asset they have to get the top pick in the draft that year, and pick him again.
Rooting for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 10:20 a.m. on June 24th, 2009
by PoorDick on Jun 30, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very important point...
MN has Rubio’s NBA rights indefinitely…they can never “extinguish”
by TWolvesFanInLA on Jun 30, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is so much speculation, but it is really quite simple
Rubio needed to go no less than #2 to have sufficient funds from JUST his NBA salary to pay his buyout and (a big AND) have enough money to comfortably live on until his 1st non rookie scale contract.
He did not go at #2 so he is short on cash. So, he has 4 options, list in order, based on what I have seen reported as his preferences.
1 – come to the NBA by negotiating a lower buy out with his club. That, unfortunately, is looking more complicated than it should be based on the Spanish IRS equivalent being involved.
2 – come to the NBA by finding guaranteed endorsement deals to provide the difference between the #2 and #5 salary. This could happen in any NBA city, but is far more likely to happen in a big market with a large Hispanic population.
3 – stay in Europe for a season (or 2) and let the buyout expire.
4 – come to the NBA by sucking it up and pay the full buyout himself.
The Spanish economy is seriously in the tank. One thing that I don’t know is if Rubio’s family is in need of his earning ability. That could also be a factor in his decision making.
Meanwhile, Kahn is going to slow play it. If he gets a great offer, he will trade him. If not, then he will wait how long it takes to get him over as a Twolve.
by Just A Fan on Jun 29, 2009 9:04 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
#2
You might be right about the Hispanic appeal, but I would also observe that part of the huge appeal of Ricky Rubio is that everyone loves him. I posted in comments elsewhere, but the great irony is that a guy like Rubio will be a huge star no matter where he plays—he’s not dependent on being in a big city to be a star or getting endorsement money. He’s like Purple Jesus (or maybe if comes here, he’ll be the Aqua Lazarus—resurrecting the Wolves and Wolves fandom from the dead). Dude will get money even if he plays in Alaska.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Jun 29, 2009 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hispanic appeal?
I am not so sure his appeal is any greater in Central and South America because he speaks Spanish. I live in San Diego and work with Argentinians, Spaniards, Mexicans and Panamanians. The only people more interested in Ricky than anybody else are the Catalans (Barcelona area folks, who consider themselves Catalan then Spanish – kinda like Texans, but more so and less obnoxious :) ). Even other Spaniards are no more or less excited about seeing him play. But, I will say, few of them could tell you where the Wolves play or name any member of the Wolves. So I think that is the main issue. It would be like Freddy Adu going to La Liga and playing for Tenerife. Most Americans would be clamoring for him to go to Barca or Real Madrid.
We just need patience. Endorsements will come. Somebody should send him the Mauer SI cover and a Purple Jesus cover (I assume there is one). And point out KGs popularity and wealth. They’ll figure it out, it was never going to happen overnight.
by CaliWolf on Jun 29, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Rubio is a popular, marketable guy. To just about everyone. Doesn’t matter where you live or what language you speak. Dude’s got “it”.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Jun 29, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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