Do you seriously think the Wolves will keep both rookies?
by meru on Jun 29, 2009 9:42 AM CDT
114 comments
I know that Kahn has said that Rubio and Flynn can play together - but nobody really believes him, right? Certainly not Ricky Rubio or Jonny Flynn. It seems to me that Flynn was the obvious target and Rubio is just a great trade asset. But maybe I'm in the majority minority. So I'd like to see what you Wolves fans really believe (not what you WANT to happen - what you think WILL happen). That Kahn is already looking like a slippery customer...
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Here's what I think was the mistake in drafting Flynn
I think his trade value is not nearly as great as we might hope. I think it will be hard to move him, and I think they absolutely cannot trade Rubio. So the choice is trading Flynn for less than our appraisal of his value, or trying to get them both on the court, at least for a while, until the market for Flynn improves, if he shows he can play.
Which is a much more difficult enterprise if he isn’t on the ball. The alternative that isn’t specified in your poll is that Rubio stays in Europe for a year, while Flynn plays and (we hope) plays well enough to develop a good market for him. This sounds better than it really is, in my view, because I don’t think a delay in Rubio coming over is a good thing for a variety of reasons, but that’s what could happen, I guess.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 29, 2009 9:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If keeping Rubio was the goal...
…then why not take Curry? If you keep him, he works better with Rubio, and if you trade him, he’s more desired than Flynn.
by meru on Jun 29, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Curry is a PG
They have the same defensive problems as Flynn-Rubio. I guess the common sentiment is somehow a passing virtuoso like Rubio is going to be able to set up Curry for wide open shots in the half court, and for the Timberwolves to pass on this dynamic is ridiculous. By all accounts, Rubio thrives in the pick and roll and in transition. He is definitely not going to do the pick and roll with Curry, and Curry did not finish well in transition against defenders in the Southern Conference. What a terrible pairing that would be long term, you’d still have to trade one.
Thanks for coming over from Blazers edge though to try and convince us one of them has to be immeidately traded. Your fans are awesome.
by Ebomb on Jun 29, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Curry wasn't a pg until last season...
… and I think he would be just as good off the ball as on it (this is where I disagree with SnP and others), especially with a great passing pg like Rubio finding him for open shots. I wasn’t all that keen on drafting Curry as a point guard, to be honest, because the failure rate of converting combo guards to point guards is high. But when we drafted Rubio, I thought Curry was the natural choice to be his sidekick. That’s why I couldn’t understand the Flynn pick. Kahn clearly liked Flynn better than Curry as a prospect, but I think Curry would’ve been a much better choice given that we already had Rubio and Curry is a bona fide scorer. That’s why this pick was so maddening.
by Shogun on Jun 29, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only way
I could advocate taking Stephen Curry in the top 10 was as a PG. A 6’2.5" Shooting Guard who can shoot but would be at an athletic disadvantage over every body he guards is not a Top 10 prospect in a weak draft. If curry can play and defend the 1, he was reasonable to me as a #6 pick, but playing off the ball essentially as a one-dimensional shooter, since he isn’t going to be blowing by Kobe off the dribble, is not somebody I want on this team.
by Ebomb on Jun 29, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A 6’2.5" Shooting Guard who can shoot but would be at an athletic disadvantage over every body he guards is not a Top 10 prospect in a weak draft
Correct. He’d be Randy Foye.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Jun 29, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, but Randy Foye would dominate him.
by levi_mn on Jun 29, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
except he might actually be able to shoot.
by homer simpson on Jun 30, 2009 1:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
though doctors say he can still grow a couple inches (1:38)
by homer simpson on Jun 30, 2009 1:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have fans?
But anyway, if Curry’s a bad fit, Flynn’s worse, right? So arguing that Curry wouldn’t work with Rubio is not exactly proving that Minnesota doesn’t have to trade one of them. What do YOU believe? That Minny can get them both to play together? Or that Flynn was drafted to be traded because he was perceived to have the most value of any player on the board?
Of course most teams in the league would like to have Rubio. But don’t kill the messenger! (You can retaliate by saying we can’t keep Rudy and Roy…)
by meru on Jun 29, 2009 11:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Argument
The argument is actually that Curry is a worse fit alongside Rubio than Flynn. The primary justifications are
1. Flynn will be much better defensively against PGs and neither him nor Curry can guard SGs in the NBA.
2. Flynn can get to the basket and finish (or at least he did in College) and this is not in Curry’s skill set.
3. Flynn was off the ball much more in college than Curry was so he might be more accepting of playing off the ball.
4. Curry didn’t even visit MN and didn’t seem to want to play here. Flynn does want to play in MN.
Yes, Curry is a much better shooter, but Flynn should develop into a good shooter.
Now, none of this says that Flynn and Rubio are a great match, but there’s a sensible argument for why Flynn is a better match than Curry.
by littleboxes on Jun 29, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could respond by saying Rudy and Roy, but then again your pragmatic GM decided to have both on the team and let the play on the court flesh out whether they have value together, which is the only course of action for the Wolves. You don’t trade Rubio or Flynn for bad value, you do your best to convince Rubio to come over, and you let it play out.
by Ebomb on Jun 29, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Differences
1. Roy was already established when Rudy agreed to come over. Everybody knew Roy would be the starter and Rudy was okay with that. Not the case with Ricky and Jonny. You have pecking-order problems.
2. Roy was already an ALL-STAR. You just HOPE one of them is an All-Star.
3. Rudy and Roy are both SGs (although Roy can actually play SF). Although Roy likes to have the ball in his hands, he’s still used to playing alongside a PG who runs the offense. Neither Rubio nor Flynn has ever NOT run the offense. There’s no indication they know what to do without the ball.
by meru on Jun 29, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Response
1. The pecking order has already been established by the PBO (Kahn) when he said Ricky will be the starting PG from day one. Kahn and Flynn know that Rubio has top billing; it’s just convincing Rubio of that.
2. Yes, we hope one or both become All-Stars, just like you hoped Roy would become an All-Star. It was in no way predestined when he was drafted 3 years ago. That’s like taking any other All-Star and making the same comparison to a rookie.
3. You’re ignoring the earlier point: Flynn wasn’t a ball-dominant PG at Syracuse. His usage rate was similar to two of his fellow starters, Devendorf and Harris. There isn’t an offense in the world which requires a PG to hang on to the ball the entire time until someone gets open. Every basketball player, including PGs, need to be able to play off the ball.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jun 29, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can this work- Perhaps???
1. On Defense- Rubio’s weakness is speed. So you match Flynn up with Speedsters like Aaron Brooks, Brandon Jennings, Derrick Rose, Rajon Rondo. Rubio’s value on Defense comes playing off the ball and disrupting passing lanes. Rubio is also long enough to in theory guard 2’s at the next level. So on Defense perhaps they compliment each other.
2. On Offense- The question is can Flynn play off the ball? Well Nate Robinson (5’8) and Allen Iverson (6’0) have shown you can be reasonably effective Offensive Players at the NBA level playing off the ball making your living by attacking the rim. Going off Flynn’s Advanced Stats from College- he seems quite skilled at getting to the rim. If he develops his long-range shot he’s going to be a tough, tough match-up on this end of the court. I know in the Half-Court their are going to be plenty of players that aren’t going to want to keep up with Jonny Flynn without the ball.
This pairing is untraditional to say the least. I admire Kahn’s out of the box thinking on this one. I think it’s unfair to say it can’t work without seeing it in action.
by Jose Cordoba on Jun 29, 2009 11:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Interesting comparables...
I wonder how Flynn’s metrics compare to AI or Robinson when they were in college?
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
by mutleyil on Jun 29, 2009 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i see it like this
Of course you keep them both. Right now we have Bassy and who else? Ollie? I don’t even know. You need at lest 4 or 5 PGs / SGs on a team. These kids are rookies. Even if we had CP3 and another great guard.. we’d need a young guy to come up through the ranks. Injuries, Matchups on a game to game basis etc
Why not keep them both, we’re acting as if each player we drat is gonna start and be what we expect them to be? My take is a little old school I guess. If you’re drafted you’re a rookie and you need to prove yourself and earn the start. Period. Look at the guy who went to miami etc. there will be exceptions like this years overall first pick will obviously start but usually it’s a learning curve.
And it’s good for the team to have competition.. Now bassy will be going against a supposedly tenacious motivated strong player in FLYNN so we’ll see how that affects him.. And as far as RUBIO i don’t htink KAHN is dumb, he’ll keep him, play his hand stern and more or less let the kid and his family know that if he’s in the NBA he’s here in MN. we can’t let these foreigners dictate where they want to play, spanish chinese or otherwise. Imagine 10 years ago they’d be lucky just to get drafted in the first round.
Not too mention he’s not even proven, i’ve seen the vids etc and heard all the hype but he could be the next felipe lopez
cromscorner.blogspot.com
by Crom on Jun 29, 2009 11:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Makes sense...
…except there’s a slight danger that their trade value gets diminished in this situation.
Plus, of course, there’s the much larger danger that Rubio refuses to come over while Flynn’s there. Unless Flynn proves to be a scrub…
by meru on Jun 29, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well...
how many picks in the first round flounder. you’re basically drafting potential and potential alone. (there are obvious exceptions each year usually) some top 10 pics bust while a 2nd rounder becomes an all star so i dont really care about trade value until they’ve played anyways. perfect example is chalmers in miami. i didnt give a crap we sent him there when we did, but i do now.
the minute FLYNN plays his value will go down unless he starts and gets 7 assists a game and that won’t happen
cromscorner.blogspot.com
by Crom on Jun 29, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course, even if Kahn intends to trade Rubio
he doesn’t have to do it this year or possibly even next if Rubio stays in Europe. Maybe that’s the plan: see how Flynn does as sole PG this year while Rubio stays abroad and then pick who gets traded. The danger is, though, that Flynn turns out to be underwhelming or Rubio gets injured or less exciting to other GMs the more it looks like he’ll never be a scorer.
by meru on Jun 29, 2009 11:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Rubio as scorer
I think I am giving Kahn too much credit for being visionary, and if I take my advice about using Occam’s Razor on this I arrive at the conclusion that Kahn didn’t think Rubio would be there at 5, and that he was planning on taking Evans or Harden at 5. Of the two, I think Evans was the most likely to fall, and if he was going to pair him with Flynn, I think we would still be having questions about whether Flynn could play off the ball (as Evans needs the ball in order to be effective). Harden would have been the best fit, but I think it was clear OKC was going to take him.
Anyways, my point is that I don’t think Kahn thought that Ricky was going to be there, but he must have realized that there was a strong possibility of drafting two point guard types at 5 and 6 anyways, based off of the most likely talent available at that spot in the draft.
If so, perhaps Kahn really did start thinking about non-traditional guard combos that have been successful. Or maybe he simply took the best talent available and said they’ll figure out on the court. Either they both play well together and we win, they both play well but don’t get along and we can trade one, one plays well and at least we have something, or neither plays well and Kahn starts networking around the D-League again. If Occam is our guide, the simplest answer to me is that you take the best players you can and you let them sort it out on the court, especially on a team as devoid of major talent as the Wolves. Hopefully this opens the door to some creative offense to make it work, but at the least Kahn has numerous options and can’t really be boxed in by anyone, which is an improvement over the previous regime.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Jun 29, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
Got a little sidetracked. I was going to say that I’m not sure Ricky will ever be a great scorer, and if Kahn really did have some devious master plan in combining Flynn and Ricky, it might have been in using both to set up each other in order to maximize their strengths: Ricky passing to a driving Flynn or Flynn driving and dishing to a wide open Rubio.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Jun 29, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rubio Ramblings...
1) I think he’ll play in the NBA, next year. Like others have mentioned, it just seems too weird that he would enter the draft, presumably intent on playing in 2009, and then back out because of the income drop from #3 to #5.
2) Aren’t there a host of major corporations that would love to see Rubio in their commercials, next year, and would be willing to take care of that buyout situation, for him? He seems to be a really marketable player and personality—I have a hard time believing that this wouldn’t be taken care of, if he came to America to play.
3) I don’t know about Flynn and Rubio in the same backcourt, but Kahn does a pretty nice job explaining it. He thought it was a weak draft, and you only take guys in the lottery that could potentially become great players. I buy that, if Flynn is actually in the “potentially great” category, and DeRozan, etc. are not. That remains to be seen. I don’t think we will see Rubio and Flynn, in the same STARTING backcourt, when we’re trying to contend for a championship. But, as I often say about Love-Jefferson, there are 48 minutes, and there needs to be a 3-man rotation. If some of the 2nd and 3rd Quarters are spent with an undersized backcourt, so be it.
4) Sid Hartman thoroughly embarrased himself, last night, on Channel 23. He bashed Kahn for giving up on Foye and Miller, because “You think Phil—Flip Saunders knows as much as this Kahn guy?” Well, the problem there, is that Washington had no use for any rookie, let alone 18-year old Rubio, and wanted veteran players. Minnesota, not so much. Add to this the fact that Rubio fell to #5, extremely unexpectedly, and Saunders & Co. are surely kicking themselves. I don’t know what they could have gotten for Rubio, but I am pretty confident in saying that it would have been better than Minnesota’s 3rd and 4th best players. Unless you want to bash away at the Flynn selection, now is not the time to start praising McHale at Kahn’s expense. The Timberwolves are not just relevant again, they are the talk of the NBA and hold one of the most intriguing young players in the league. The only way that will stop is if we trade Rubio away.
5) That leads to my final point: Don’t trade Rubio. Not for anything. Well, almost anything. Literally, only trade him away for a young, All-Star player. Anything less, and it’s not worth it. Better to gamble on the (un)likelihood that he actually sits out a year from paid basketball to go to another team. Unless Utah offers Deron Williams, Portland offers Brandon Roy or something ridiculous like that, we need to just keep Rubio and have him be the TWolves point guard. After all the crappy luck and crappy decisions of this franchise, we were given a gift, and we should not return it.
by Andy G on Jun 29, 2009 11:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
#2
You’d have to imagine that Nike or Addidas or Reebok would love to get ahold of Ricky. Can you imagine how many markets globally would suddenly open up for you? Rubio has that kind of appeal. One contract from either of those firms could pay off his buyout in the first year, above and beyond what he’ll make on the rookie scale. I don’t think Rubio will be hurting for money next year if he comes, especially considering he’s already been promised a starting spot and 25-30 minutes a night. The only hang up for those corporations sending him an offer is getting him over here.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Jun 29, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For real.
Rubio’s got as much marketing appeal as any sports player to come along in any sport in years. He’s like Mia Hamm, David Beckham and Zack Efron rolled into one.
by princelyfrank on Jun 29, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
RE: Sid
For our out-of-state readers, Sid is the local sports reporting “legend”:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfIk5lyVa4g
He actually help put together the Minneapolis Lakers. These days, he’s…well, he has a big rolodex and the paper loves that.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 29, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's got a great nickname too:
Grandpa Sports
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Jun 29, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude’s a fossil with lots of “friends”.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Jun 29, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not just friends
close personal friends.
by littleboxes on Jun 29, 2009 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jason Williams...
… became a hugely popular player whilst toiling in the backwater market of Sacramento, and I’d bet that he made a lot of endorsement money early in his career despite of that. Rubio, a similar-but-better prospect with foreign appeal, would do even better here. The endorsement argument against coming to Minnesota isn’t tenable even though RR would be more visible in NY (and make marginally more in endorsements there).
by Shogun on Jun 29, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention...
it’s a tad more expensive to live in NYC versus Minneapolis/St. Paul.
by Andy G on Jun 29, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But then again...
why are we even talking about the Knicks? They have no assets.
by Andy G on Jun 29, 2009 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't usually have a problem with Sid...
but he was way out of line, last night. He’s just going after Taylor and Kahn because of his loyalties to McHale and Saunders. The whole world is talking about Ricky Rubio, but Sid’s obsession with former Gophers trumps that, I guess, and he downplays Rubio and brags up Randy Foye and Mike Miller. Give me a break.
by Andy G on Jun 29, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For Sid...
…it’s Dinkytown uber alles. I’m surprised he hasn’t run with the “he’ll never play in this town” card with Rubio yet.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 29, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dinkytown uber alles works...
… when you’re talking about food on the U campus.
I hate Pod Six. I don't even know why we have a Pod Six. Total suck pod.
by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on Jun 29, 2009 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's that breakfast joint over there called?
I can’t remember. It’s really good.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 29, 2009 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
Amazing and completely worth the wait. Other places worth noting in the area: Mesa Pizza, Marrakesh Cafe, Loring Pasta Bar and Annie’s Parlor. Those are just the non-chain places. Tons of stuff down there.
I hate Pod Six. I don't even know why we have a Pod Six. Total suck pod.
by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on Jun 29, 2009 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My wife and I have been meaning to try the pasta bar...
..we go to a lot of shows at the Varsity and we always miss dinner there.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 29, 2009 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a solid joint.
I’ve only had their lunch… but I’ve had it a lot. The pasta dishes are great, if a little expensive relative to the portions. Granted, the place is rather upscale relative to it’s surroundings, so the modest portions for a pretty penny makes sense. My favorite part is their Cherry Cokes: they do Coke with grenadine and a cherry. Every time I’m there, I end up drinking 2-3 of those.
I hate Pod Six. I don't even know why we have a Pod Six. Total suck pod.
by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on Jun 29, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mmmm....
…real cherry coke. I used to work as a soda jerk at a place called Boogie’s Diner at the Mall. Nothing beats the red syrup.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
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by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 29, 2009 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Loring Pasta Bar is great if you love fat grams
But it’s right next door to possibly the best Chinese restaurant in Minnesota. Shuang Cheng? Whatever, the place with the red awning. But if you go to the Loring, check it out when Mandragora is playing. Local band that’s bigger in Argentina than they are here.
by TMiss on Jun 29, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Loring Pasta Bar mayn
i went der wit dis crazy broad a month ago mayn dat place wuz WEIRD mayn dey had Dry ice and deze lazer thangs comin from de ceiling i wuz too gone off de corona an de kill ta know what wuz happenin mayn i wuz like MAYN HOL UP!
MAYN HOL UP!
by MAYNHOLUP on Jun 29, 2009 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
chick wuz a freak doe mayn a lil too crazy fo ya boi
but i aint see NO dam pasta at de pasta bar mayn all i saw wuz sweaty spanish dudes an dried ice mayn
MAYN HOL UP!
by MAYNHOLUP on Jun 29, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HAHAHAHAHA
I want to go there sometime.
by College Wolf on Jun 29, 2009 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lazer beams + corona + de kill =
good times
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
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by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 29, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ya, that sounds like Salsa night
It’s bizarre.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Jun 29, 2009 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You should have your own restaurant critic's blog
MAYN EAT UP!
Rooting for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 10:20 a.m. on June 24th, 2009
by PoorDick on Jun 30, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've seen them...
…fantastic tango group:
http://www.mandragoratango.com/
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
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by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 29, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget Burrito Loco
and their delicious, delicious bricks of food.
by McCleak on Jun 29, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of all the places I've ever lived
The Cities has by far the most (per capita) and best breakfast places. The breakfast culture is so much stronger there than anywhere else I’ve been.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 29, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It really is good
Key’s and Hell’s Kitchen are my favorite. The only other place I’ve lived with better breakfast food is Monterey, CA. The Old Monterey Cafe is the best breakfast I’ve had in my entire life:
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by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 29, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmmm...breakfast....
It’s true. I love the corn pancakes at Maria’s. Plus there are the old standby’s—The Egg and I and Uptown Cafe group (Calhoun Grill, Lexington, etc.). Hard Times also used to have an awesome breakfast. Also French Meadow and Bad Waitress.
Then there are all the places that serve super delicious mimosas and bloody Mary’s.
Yup, it may get cold in the winter, but we do know how to serve up breakfast right.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Jun 29, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that place called, I think, Day by Day
still on West 7th in St Paul?
That place always amused me.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 29, 2009 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Louisiana Cafe
Is another good St. Paul one.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 29, 2009 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Breakfast spot discussion is a good break in the action from
Rubio and to that end, I would also add the St. Clair Broiler to the list.
by Punisher#8 on Jun 29, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely...
…the last time I was there a car crashed into the bus stop outside about 5 minutes after they opened.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
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by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 29, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Burgers and breakfast...
…are probably the deepest forms of Minneapolis/St Paul cuisine. The burger joint list is deep and amazing too.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
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by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 29, 2009 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Nook
Is a fantastic burger joint in Saint Paul.
by rencito on Jun 29, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I used to live above a place in St Paul
Over near St Kate’s as I recall called Snooky’s. It was a burger and shake place, and my apartment smelled constantly of frying meat.
Ahhh, frying meat….
It’s been so long most of the places I remember probably aren’t there anymore.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 29, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know exactly what you are talking about
It is on Cleveland Avenue. The shakes there are fantastic. It is still there. Its name is Snuffy’s.
by rencito on Jun 29, 2009 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Snuffy's that's it
Thanks. Cleveland Ave it was. I lived there about 15 years ago, so my memory for details isn’t great. It was a terrible apartment, and the smells were pretty strong.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 29, 2009 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Snuffy's...
…is also right next to Willie’s Guitars…which is one of the great guitar shops in the country. We used to live on the other side of the river and bike over for a burger and then up the way to a really good ice cream joint further north. Iggy’s I think.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
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by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 29, 2009 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Grand Olde Creamery
on Grand Ave is the best ice cream place in the Twin Cities.
by rencito on Jun 29, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Izzy’s over on Marshall. Best ice cream in town, no question.
Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.
by Xand1 on Jun 29, 2009 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm more of a frozen custard guy
And nothing beats Adele’s in Excelsior.
by Ski U Mah Gopher on Jun 29, 2009 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Second the notion.
Tiny place, amazing burgers.
I hate Pod Six. I don't even know why we have a Pod Six. Total suck pod.
by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on Jun 29, 2009 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nook burgers..
….are definitely worth the wait. The Bulldog in northeast Mpls is my favorite.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
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by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 29, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm there all the time
I’ll know it is you next time I’m there and I’m not the only one paying attention to the Wolves game on TV.
by rencito on Jun 29, 2009 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good thing
I just had breakfast.
You boys are making me hungry.
by Auswolf on Jun 29, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DE NOOK MAYN I LOVE DE NOOK I FEIND FO DAT ON DE DAILY
MAYN HOL UP!
by MAYNHOLUP on Jun 29, 2009 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
PAUL MOLITOR BURGERS ALL DAY MAYN
MAYN HOL UP!
by MAYNHOLUP on Jun 29, 2009 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One Comparsion
that could be made to this situation is the 76ers Backcourt earlier this decade of Eric Snow, Allen Iverson, and Aaron Mckie. This was a quite effective defensive backcourt. Snow being 6’3, Iverson being 6’0 and McKie being around 6’5. The year they went to the the Finals they were in the Top 5 in Def.Rating. Any of these pairings would also be considred non-traditional. My main point is not to quickly dismiss this idea because the Media tells you so.
by Jose Cordoba on Jun 29, 2009 11:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That's a good one...
That team faced its share of taller guards against Toronto (Alvin Williams was 6’4, Carter 6’6, MoPete 6’6) and Milwaukee (Cassell 6’3, Ray Allen 6’5, Robinson 6’8) in the playoffs. Any mismatch can be turned the other way if the players and scheme are good enough.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jun 29, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about the Mavs this year.. Didn’t they run a primary guard lineup of Terry, Kidd and Barea? Yeah, most of these back courts are incredibly talented, but who knows how good Rubio/Flynn could be down the line.
Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.
by Xand1 on Jun 29, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. BUT
Remember the Sixers always had a shotblocker (first Ratliff, then Mutombo) behind them. Neither Jefferson nor Love is known for that.
And actually I thought you were going to talk about the earlier Sixers’ backcourt of Hersey Hawkins and Jeff Hornacek. I think that’s a more depressing analogy.
(Of course, there’s always the Stockton/Hornacek pairing…)
by meru on Jun 29, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It clearly helps to have 2 elite shot-blockers
I would respond that Al and Kevin Love project as a much more Offensively Capable duo along with being better rebounders. So while you might only be 10th or 12th in Defensive Rating- they could very well have a Top 10 Offensive Rating. It should also be noted how much better Love and Al would love together with solid Perimeter D- So they don’t have to always offer Weak-Side help leading to dishes for open layups.
by Jose Cordoba on Jun 29, 2009 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His new name is officially...
“An Additional $500K to pay towards freeing Ricky Rubio.”
We’re going to have to come up with an acronym for that, or something.
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
by mutleyil on Jun 29, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The King's Ransom?
Or, in Roman numerals: DM (D = 500, M = thousand)
Which would be spelled out:
qingenta mille
Maybe: Mr Mille? Mr DMille?
by timmuggs on Jun 29, 2009 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Mr Demille. . .
. . . I’m ready for my buyout." RR
Sometimes the obvious is hidden.
by frankenhoops on Jun 30, 2009 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BTW:
Extra points for you guys and the Sunset Blvd references. This was always my favorite line:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX98UmQZBHU
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 30, 2009 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where do I get to redeem
my points and green stamps?? I think I can find a book or two of them.
Sometimes the obvious is hidden.
by frankenhoops on Jun 30, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We should keep...
…and “awesome reference” page. I’ll see if I can set one up.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Jun 30, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Picture This
It’s easy to (A) think of the players in terms of how they relate to other current rosters (LA, Orlando, Boston) or (B) player on player defensive matches (who guards Kobe?).
As odd as it seems to have two 1’s and 2 4’s in your projected starting lineup, it’s easy to see gameplay like this night in and night out.
- Al and K-Love gobble up rebounds, dish to either Rubio or Flynn.
- Break. Rubio, Flynn, and either Brewer or Ellington run the floor.
- If the break is stopped, you run your half-court with a post up machine (Jefferson).
You could put a lot of pressure on teams to keep up that way, and it would be an entertaining style of ball for casual fans.
by Punisher#8 on Jun 29, 2009 12:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Very true. Amonst all of the “who defends who” talk I think we forget that a good team puts pressure on the other team to defend them as well. With non-stop breaks driven by two excellent playmakers and fueled by Senor Amor’s outlets, you could run teams ragged. Sure, ultimately you might have a hard time getting stops when necessary, but as someone said in an earlier CH post, you have to crawl before you can walk, and we have plenty of assets available to continue to develop the lineup as we move forward. For right now, this would be immensely enjoyable..
Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.
by Xand1 on Jun 29, 2009 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
seriously
not to make this comparison, but to make the comparison
See Lakers, Los Angeles for the fast breaking team with a dominant low post scorer who was old as all get out and not a fast break player. Now, the wolves don’t even belong in that conversation, but still, it’s not as if a slow big dude that is a very good low post scorer is not compatible with an amazing fast break offense.
by littleboxes on Jun 29, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Play them both
We needed a great player, and now maybe we have one in Rubio. The guy we might trade later is Flynn, and that’s only after a) Rubio comes over here (not this year), and b) Flynn has more value to us in a trade than he has as a SG.
by Dave T on Jun 29, 2009 12:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think they’ll play them both just to see if it works out, not because there are just guards..
Beater of the early Thabeet drum ... but not so much of the late one
by Wim (Belgium) on Jun 29, 2009 12:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry I didn't read the rest of the comments yet
and somone probably already said this, but I expect to see us keep both of them, with Rubio staying an extra 2 yrs overseas. Flynn gets 2 years to see what we got.
That leaves a few possible outcomes:
1. Flynn isn’t starter material and Rubio replaces him, possibly moving Flynn to the bench or elsewhere.
2. Flynn proves to be more of a scorer than some people believe and Rubio comes over to complement him at a Suns/Knicks type of tempo (which I think Bassy can capably orchestrate for a year or 2). Major proble with this is that KLove, AJ, Rubio, and Flynn have to all play defense at the same time.
3. Flynn plays an excellent point, and Rubio still has major value. Trade one for an athletic scoring swingman.
If one of them DOES get traded, without a doubt it’s going to be Rubio. Especially if it happens before the season. Remember that Flynn might have been a reach at 6 while Rubio slipped to 5. Regardless of what the Twolves think, the rest of the league clearly values Rubioi higher, and therefore he would bring back the most in a trade. This would be a sweet scenario if Flynn really is the best PG in the draft (as Minny apparently thinks).
P.S. Does Flynn’s stock rising remind anyone of a football player’s stock rising after the combine? Because I am pretty sure the ENTIRE reason the Wolves were so infatuated with Flynn was because of his workout with the wolves, which by all accounts went just swimmingly. I love Flynn as a player, I just hope we didn’t overvalue a single workout.
by RoyalFlush on Jun 29, 2009 1:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That's what I've been saying
P.S. Does Flynn’s stock rising remind anyone of a football player’s stock rising after the combine? Because I am pretty sure the ENTIRE reason the Wolves were so infatuated with Flynn was because of his workout with the wolves, which by all accounts went just swimmingly. I love Flynn as a player, I just hope we didn’t overvalue a single workout.
Yeah, a little bit. The Vikings almost fell victim to the small sample size in the ’02 NFL draft when they almost selected Ryan Sims. Sims, of course, was a projected second rounder until a great Senior Bowl week rocketed him up draft boards. Good thing the Vikings were less than prepared to hand in their draft card in time.
Sadly, McHale was too influenced by Corey Brewer’s outstanding NCAA tournament.
by Sulla on Jun 29, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What if...
Rubio spends another year in Spain and Flynn is the starting PG for 2009-10.
Flynn turns out to be exactly what we needed—a PG who can penetrate, dish, and then find the open Love/Jefferson/Gomes/Brewer or score himself.
His leadership abilities and intangibles are what the Wolves’ psych tests proved to be and he is well liked by fans, players, and critics alike.
Do we then trade Rubio since we have our proverbial bird in the hand? Or do we capitalize on Flynn’s proven one year of success to get good value and see if Rubio can gel with new teammates, adjust to a new league, culture, and style of play?
I would say trade Rubio at that point. Of course, this is all conjecture, but that is the only scenario (other than getting blown away with an offer) that I would trade Rubio.
by rencito on Jun 29, 2009 4:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Unless he looks like the second coming of CP3 and Rubio has failed to improve overseas, I’m probably still looking to move Flynn and keep Rubio. Depends on the extremes of their respective situations, though.
Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.
by Xand1 on Jun 29, 2009 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hesitate to post this
but someone pointed out to me Rubio’s facebook page. I have never used facebook, so I don’t know anything about it, but here’s the link—says he’s in MN.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 29, 2009 4:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Link doesn't work
And even so, it might be a fan page or just some schmo who decided to impersonate Ricky. If it isn’t in Spanish, I think it is immediately suspect.
by rencito on Jun 29, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, it is in Spanish mostly
Hmm, you are right about the link. I’ll try again.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ricky-Rubio/115806818131?v=feed&story_fbid=115991868034
Again, I have no idea if this is real. It looks like it could be, but I really have no idea how these pages work.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 29, 2009 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
has to be true
Perhaps facebook is Walters’ little birdie. Funny.
Dude is 18, totally on facebook.
Please be true.
by littleboxes on Jun 29, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very Skeptical
I’m pretty sure it is just something made by a fan. I’m just glad that it was obviously made by a T-Wolves fan.
by rencito on Jun 29, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Affiliation: Minnesota Timberwolves"
Yeah, I’m pretty sure he didn’t rush right out and add that to his Facebook page in the middle of the contract negotiations back home….
by feral on Jun 29, 2009 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty sure
Ricky wasnt on facebook an hour after he was drafted.
by Mplax on Jun 29, 2009 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kudos for Kahn... up to this point.
Really, now. Is there a more interesting BB team than the Wolves? New GM. Adios KM. Trade wth Wiz. Draft Rubio and that circus. Drafting Flynn. Draft night itself. And as an aside to the two PG talk, if ya think about it, JF is really a very intriguing player. I’m looking forward to seeing what he’s got. Trying my best to enjoy it all, A to Z. Beats dissing and discussing Corey B.’s jump shot during this offseason.
by Elastico on Jun 29, 2009 4:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Good point
The Ellington pick is getting extremely little play, and more amazingly the Lawson pick is getting no play at all. I think, as others have mentioned, that Ellington will turn out to be a very solid pickup. Hopefully a Shaddy McCants type spark, only, you know, not completely victimized and the center of his own universe. The Lawson pick was great for Denver, and potentially a good move for us. As great as Lawson could be, he just reminds me a lot of a Bobby Jackson type player—a guy you want on your team because he plays the right way (sorry), but just won’t ever break into that upper echelon of starters at his position. Getting a future first in a better draft (especially one deeper in positions of need for us—wings and bigs) is a great move, especially considering that otherwise we’d have 4 rookies from an extremely guard heavy draft. Calathes? I would have liked to have kept him myself, for at the very least I think he would have had a lot more trade value in a year.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Jun 29, 2009 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm actually surprised there's as much openness to them playing together.
When I was in Las Vegas- I was called and told how bad fan reaction was to the idea.
by Jose Cordoba on Jun 29, 2009 7:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Because "most fans"
are listening to the mainstream media’s east coast bias. I even heard guys on Around the Horn criticizing us for picking Rubio at all.
Even if we can’t sign him, we’ll get something for him. I still like the fact that we hold all the leverage in this situation. If Rubio wants to be a big baby and refuse to play for us, we still have Flynn as our PG of the future.
I still think there is a good chance Rubio plays for us. What would be the point of him saying he isn’t going to play because of his buyout situation unless he really meant it? If he really doesn’t want to play for Minnesota, he would have said so already. Instead, everything is this big question mark because of his Spanish contract situation. It really comes down to him falling down #5 where the burden of the buyout is not offset by the salary for that pick as it would have been had he gone higher. He knew the risk he was taking by declaring for the draft, and now he has to deal with it.
by rencito on Jun 29, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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