Why the Wolves hold the power in the Rubio situation
by Matty_P on Jul 1, 2009 7:33 AM CDT
103 comments
Let's get a few things straight here concerning the Rubio "situation". I am with most level-headed Wolves fans here in that drafting Rubio was a great move, even with the Flynn selection. I also believe that it's a pretty safe bet that Rubio will be suiting up in a Wolves uniform this fall.
(Ed Note: I'm bumping this to the front page and putting the rest of the post below the fold.)
Here are the facts:
1) Rubio's rights belong to the Wolves indefinitely unless he doesn't play professional basketball for a year. I think it's safe to say that won't happen. He can't "wait us out" here.
2) Rubio is bound to the rookie contract. This is a 2 year deal with a 3rd and 4th year team option. The max salary for the #5 pick (if I am doing the math right) is 3.3M/3.5M/3.8M/4.8M (thanks Larry Coon). This contract starts when he comes over to the U.S., so if he waits no years are eliminated from the deal. Anyway, this is a pretty modest deal and Rubio should try to get this contract over with so he can get to his next one.
3) Rubio's value likely goes up if he stays in Europe. He gains more experience and gets more "polished", essentially for "free". As noted above, his rookie contract doesn't start so he remains cheap.
4) I don't know a lot about the situation other than what I have heard and read on message boards, but it seems that Rubio's team, DKV Joventut, is in dire financial straits and needs the buyout money badly. Thus it's in their interests to get the buyout completed.
5) Teams in Europe don't run on budgets near what NBA teams do. He's not going to get a huge paycheck from a European team. Maybe a modest one (ie rookie contract or MLE level), but nothing like he could make in the NBA. Let's also not forget that any team will have to wade through the buyout mess.
6) When his rookie contract is up, it's most likely that the Wolves will be the team that can offer him the most money, due to Bird rights. Unless there is another team that has a ton of raw cap space, which for the most part, happens very infrequently.
7) Rubio has stated that most of all, he wants to play in the NBA.
What does this mean?
- He can't really force his way out.
- If he stays in Europe, he's likely costing himself tens of millions by delaying his post-rookie contract. (Assuming of course he commands a high salary)
- It looks increasingly to me like Rubio is here this fall, considering the financials.
- Basically all of the power lies with the Wolves.
So let's forget about how the Wolves "must" trade Rubio immediately for mediocre players. The Wolves have time to wait and see what happens with this situation.
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Amen
I swear I find no holes in this way of thinking…we are fine either way.
by majinman on Jul 1, 2009 7:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with both the sentiment and the facts
Follow the money.
My only point is whether in the event Rubio signs a longer deal with a bigger team in Spain, like Real Madrid who can pay a more substantial wage, whether Kahn wavers. Two years seems like light at the end of the tunnel. If the deal is four years, the light would be substantially dimmed.
by Auswolf on Jul 1, 2009 7:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Though if he actually signs such a long deal with Real
then his trade value plummets, and Kahn has to hold him.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 1, 2009 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A good summary of the situation
I will add that the advantage to a European team is that they can pay more of (or all of) his buyout.
Though as you say, the budgets there are not as big. There has been some talk of Real paying the buyout and paying him a decent wage.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 1, 2009 7:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Great
Then he can do that for like, five years, and then come to the Wolves to play for pennies during the prime of his career. In the meantime, he costs the Wolves nothing—the gap between the cost of keeping his rights and his actual trade value is as big as any young player.
Rooting for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 10:20 a.m. on June 24th, 2009
by PoorDick on Jul 1, 2009 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the choice
He won’t make more than 3 million or so a year in salary in Europe, so the longer he delays getting his rookie contract started, the lower his earning power for his career. Of course, that assumes he becomes a good or great player in the NBA.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 1, 2009 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And don't forget
Why would a Euro team pay a $6 million buyout for a player who doesn’t want to stay in Europe long term? Following the money, that’s a stupid investment. My guess is that the offers from Europe come in at $2-3 million towards the buyout, and another $1 million in salary for two years, give or take, at most. Otherwise it just doesn’t make sense, especially for the minutes most Euro’s seem to play.
Now, if this was Pekovic we were talking about instead of Ricky, I think a team would be much more likely to fork over the buyout cash, as Pek hasn’t really given that much indication he’s dying to be over here. Different case with Ricky.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Jul 1, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fegan is the key...
Fegan gets paid when RR gets paid in the NBA. So Fegan will be manipulating the Rubio family to make the move, which is a good thing from our perspective.
Of course, Fegan is trying to maximize total revenues including endorsements, so he’d like to see RR move to the richest market. He will continue to muddy the waters in order to make it seem like the Wolves have no chance at signing RR. But his interests lie with RR making money in the USA.
Fegan is a pain in the back pocket, and I’m glad for us that Kahn seems to be up to dealing with folks such as Fegan.
Here is a question: Does General Mills pay the guys that are featured on a Wheaties box? Can they do a mockup of a box with Ricky on it? It might be a fun thing to show RIcky’s family when they are in town.
I’m guessing that the front office is savvy enough to show some of the articles written about the Twin Cities business environment. While we may not be the largest market, when you count headquarters of big businesses, we punch way above our weight.
by timmuggs on Jul 1, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kahn *is* folks such as Fegan.
And this is a terrific thing at present.
by TheH on Jul 1, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The full buyout may not be beyond the reach of Real Madrid
who are an arm of the soccer team (Spanish colleagues feel free to correct). They’re the Yankees of Spain essentially and also have a massive debt. But they have enormous institutional support.
by Auswolf on Jul 1, 2009 8:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I read yesterday that Madrid had no interest in Rubio
I’m sorry, I don’t have a link and I’m sure it’s just speculation anyway.
But really, if he plays for Madrid for a season or two, he’s likely costing himself a lot of money and NBA exposure. He may not care about the money, but he (apparently) badly wants to get to the NBA.
by Matty_P on Jul 1, 2009 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I found where I read that.
Some guy who posted it on Real GM.
a Sports Radio Show yesterday night Real Madrid GM (jorge Valdano) stated that they have no interest in Ricky Rubio, he also said that they did talk about Rubio a month or so ago with his agent but there were too many finantial problems.So lets recapitulate…Madrid has no interest, Ricky stated himself that he doesnt want to play for any other team but Juventut and Juventut says that if he is suing the team he will not play for them.
Juventut is more interested in the buyout money than in Ricky playing another year or two with them.
In my opinion he is going to play for the Wolves next year.[/quote]
by Matty_P on Jul 1, 2009 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's incredible how much that club spends
It is the same organization. They spend so much on soccer players it’s unreal. I have no idea where they get that kind of money. I know they have good revenue from TV and their stadium, and they do well in other parts of the world, but both Kaka and Ronaldo in the same summer? .
by Eric in Madison on Jul 1, 2009 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are carrying a debt
of about 500 million Euros.
by Auswolf on Jul 1, 2009 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even if Real (or someone else) can pay the buyout, you have to assume
that they would want at least a 3 year commitment from Rubio to make it worth their while. That of course could cost him a lot down the line in the NBA.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 1, 2009 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also let's remember
That the Wolves, in my opinion, basically got Rubio for nothing. Foye + Miller weren’t coming back (nor should they have been resigned) and Kahn managed to get back 2 expiring contracts. The difference is Songalia’s extra year. I like to look at it as if they paid $4.8M for the #5.
You can argue that Foye + Miller is more valuable than Thomas + Pecherov, but in the end it’s really the expiring contracts that hold the most value. At least in my opinion.
by Matty_P on Jul 1, 2009 8:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The $4.8 mil
they will pay Songaila next season is near enough to Foye’s qualifying offer.
by Auswolf on Jul 1, 2009 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good post
It seems like the most negativity on the “situation” is from media outside on of the largest markets in the US. All of us striaght thinking wolves fans know this, but it does my heart good to see it in writing. Thanks Matty and let’s all keep shining that Rubio light!!
Sometimes the obvious is hidden.
by frankenhoops on Jul 1, 2009 8:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I commended your post over on Roob Chat, but will repeat my butt-kissing here. Kudos!
by saudagg on Jul 1, 2009 8:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
if rubio EVER plays for minny mayn
de whole ROy – Foye thing is easia ta swallow mayn PAUSE.
Roy + Miller for Rubio isnt exactly a trde i would do if we had brandon, but mayn it makes me not wanna kill mahself aytime i see brandon drop 50
MAYN HOL UP!
by MAYNHOLUP on Jul 1, 2009 8:59 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Good post, but you missed one option.
Rubio will pay them nothing if he fullfills his contract. He can stay there, watch his stock rise and get payed 200,000 in the process instead of forking over the entirity of his first two years in the nba. Now only other way it would work is if they line up a nike or adidas contract to pay off the money, but because he will be on the wolves and because that is a small market…………….highly doubtful. He will play over seas, at least a year.
by kyrow on Jul 1, 2009 9:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Do you honestly think...
… that Nike will sell fewer shoes with Rubio in Minnesota? Do they sell fewer shoes for LeBron because he is in Cleveland? Who makes Nate Robinson’s shoes? How many people actually know? Nike will make more money, sell more Rubio shoes, run more Rubio commercials, and so on with Rubio in the NBA and not sitting with DKV for two more years. The marketing angle that currently presents itself, i.e. child basketball savant playing with grown men, does not last forever. If the choice is trying to market Rubio while he plays in the Euro leagues versus trying to market Rubio while he plays in the US, I would be willing to bet that no one at Nike gives a crap where he lands in the NBA.
by TheH on Jul 1, 2009 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You would be right if.......
Flynn is our guy, nike is not going to throw cash at a point that is splitting time with another potentially stand out guy. In order for rubio to be the man and worth the cash, he needs the time to play. I agree with the small market not affecting players that stand out………..KG. But a small market does hurt the player overall in recognition and they need to be a cut above to get the same contract with sponsors. Flynn and Rubio………….we will need 5 quarters to watch them both develop.
by kyrow on Jul 1, 2009 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He'll get plenty of time
provided he stays healthy. This idea that he’s gonna ride the bench for a the T-Wolves is ludicrous to me. I don’t believe for one minute that Rubio is worried he’s going to lose out to Johnny Flynn, or that he’s not going to get minutes.
But you’re right, Rubio is better the younger he is for his first couple of commercials, introducing the boy wonder to the nation. And it also doesn’t even matter much to his ads even if he DOES only play minimal minutes, because he’s a HUMAN HIGHLIGHT MACHINE. His funky style and creativity will make for a great ad even if he only puts up two assists a game, cause they’ll probably be awesomely sweet assists with a ton of visual flare that will play even to people who pay no attention to basketball. His funky style will play no matter whose uniform he is wearing or what frigid region he represents.
Ricky was sent to earth by the gods of advertising, to thank us for our worship. He should come play in Minnesota and get rich immediately.
by princelyfrank on Jul 1, 2009 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well,
1) Ricky is suing Joventut and there appears to be burned bridges here.
2) Beyond the personal relationships, Joventut (from what I am reading) REALLY needs the buyout money.
Also, like I wrote, if Rubio stays overseas, the Wolves hold his rights and he gets more experience. He ends up playing more of his “prime” under a cheap rookie contract. Meanwhile, we get to figure out how good Flynn is.
by Matty_P on Jul 1, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, because it really hurt...
KG that he was in MN when it came to shoe deals and commercials. Even Googs was in Nike commercials when he played for the Wolves.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jul 1, 2009 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Alllll nude... but tastefully done."
Just Youtubed that yesterday. Classic.
by TheH on Jul 1, 2009 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
CBA question
What if he holds out 2 years and the rules change in 2011. Which rules would apply to Ricky?
by A.K. Agikamik on Jul 1, 2009 9:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, who knows what they could agree to? Pro sports leagues are a closed system
But from a legal standpoint, the Wolves absolutely have rights. They are making decisions based on what the rules are now. If the rules change later, and they get screwed by their application to the Rubio situation, they would, in theory, have legal redress.
I have trouble seeing an agreement that would retroactively change the rules.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 1, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interest
Potentially interesting are any changes to the rookie salary scale. Suppose the new CBA makes rookie contracts less generous, then Rubio would be kicking himself for not signing in 2009. [If those are rules, that you get paid based on the rookie scale in the year you sign not the year you are drafted.] Of course, if there’s a strike or a lockout I imagine Ricky also loses a ton of money waiting for that to be resolved.
by littleboxes on Jul 1, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Flynn is the issue...
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/chris_mannix/06/30/rubio.notes/index.html?eref=sihpT1
I like Jonny Flynn. But if Flynn being on the team truly is the only issue to Rubio coming over and committing to MN (rather than financial or location considerations), then let’s move Flynn in the best deal possible and get on with our lives.
by Punisher#8 on Jul 1, 2009 9:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I know this is the ROOB take,
but I can’t see why LeBron wouldn’t want to play with a core of Rubio/Love/Jefferson. I don’t see it happening, but I am convinced Rubio here makes us 10x more attractive to Free Agents.
by callmeishmael on Jul 1, 2009 9:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think LeBron would like playing with any of those guys...
He is the most ball-dominating player in the league. Imagine how he’d like throwing it into Jefferson 25 times per game, or watching Rubio dribble all over—LeBron isn’t exactly a “catch and shoot” player. Love could be ok, but Love is all about ball movement, and LeBron is all about “get out of my way” and dribbling to the basket. His surrounding cast in Cleveland was pretty well-suited for him, actually. Some outside shooting, combined with some interior toughness. Unless he plans on drastically changing his style, I don’t think he’d fit in at all with our young core.
by Andy G on Jul 1, 2009 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
One of the many advantages of having Rubio is that if he’s successful, the team has a specific identity, and can target players who may be undervalued elsewhere, and could be swapped for Wolves who don’t fit in with that identity. It still is difficult to pry particular players away from other teams, but at least the GM knows whom to target.
Rooting for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 10:20 a.m. on June 24th, 2009
by PoorDick on Jul 1, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah exactly.
Like Phoenix back when they were super fun, with Nash and a bunch of dudes who love to launch 3’s and throw down alley-oops. Young Joe Johnson, Marion, Amare, they were my favorite video game b-ball team to play as ever.
It does make me a bit sad, thinking about how Love and Al are not exactly ideal oopers.
by princelyfrank on Jul 1, 2009 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's ball dominant
because his teammates are mediocre to lousy. He fit into a team concept seamlessly with Team USA and has court vision/ball-sharing skills.
BTW don’t think he is headed to MN, just pointing this out.
by Punisher#8 on Jul 1, 2009 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
All-Star Mo Williams is a very good player, and Delonte West, Joe Smith, and others are pretty solid. But they have a unique system that allows LeBron to have the ball in his hands on almost every possession for most of the 24 seconds. At it’s worst, it’s incredibly painful to watch. At its best, it allows LeBron to put up off-the-wall numbers in some highly entertaining games. Either way, he would not, at this point in his career, have an easy time watching Al Jefferson take 15-20 shots from the low block, and relegating himself to a standing 3-shooter. Nor would he enjoy having the ball out of his hands on 80+% of possession, while Rubio—instead of LeBron—makes plays for teammates. It’s just not a good fit.
Clearly, the Wolves would improve by the incredible talent leap we’d make with LBJ on the roster, but he could pick a whole host of teams that would better suit his skill-set.
The Olympics are a bad example, as he was playing with guys as good as he is (wouldn’t be the case on the Wolves) and against guys that were not NBA-caliber (also not the case on the Wolves). Aside from the Spanish team, they rolled over their competition.
by Andy G on Jul 1, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Deja Vu
A lot of what is going on in Cleveland reminds me of when KG was here. Cleveland is hamstrung roster-wise, not unlike the Wolves had a tough time making roster changes further into KG’s stay here.
After a while you start talking yourself into how good some of these guys are. Mo Williams made the all-star game, sure. But so did Wally and Sam. I don’t think we would say those guys were top 24 players at the time they made it, and I don’t think Williams was this past year. There is a coattail effect. They have a few solid players, but no one who scares anyone on a night-to-night basis. Part of the argument for Lebron as MVP was how well they did with that supporting cast.
This isn’t an effort to badmouth those players, I just don’t think you want to sell Lebron short. He’s doing what he has to do given their current team makeup.
by Punisher#8 on Jul 1, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, to an extent...
but I don’t think I’m selling LeBron short as much as I’m pointing out his style of play. The two areas where he’s an historically great player are dribble penetration and passing. On a team that has one of the best post/isolation scorers in the league in Jefferson, and hopefully one of the best playmaking points in the league in Rubio, I don’t think we are anywhere close to an ideal fit for him to be properly utilized. If we somehow did add LeBron, I think we’d be the favorite to win it all, in a short amount of time, but his numbers would drop significantly, and I’m not sure that the guy who wants to be the world’s first billionaire athlete is prepared for that, yet.
His teammates aren’t great, but they aren’t bad, either. I just think they fit his strengths pretty well. Let’s remember, they were the favorite to win it all, CRUISING to the East Finals, last year. Orlando played over their heads, especially in clutch shooting, and took that series from them. It wasn’t a fluke, but it also wasn’t the likely result. Cleveland is a really good team, and it’s not only because of their best player, but also because of how they fit together.
by Andy G on Jul 1, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree to disagree
I’m not arguing that the Wolves key pieces are ideal fit for Lebron, though I think Al is certainly better in a vacuum than any of the Cavs other players.
I get why you are identifying LeBron as a player who needs to be ball-dominant. There was a heavy, heavy dose of that in this year’s playoffs – agree with the description of painful at times. Based primarily on watching the Olympic games, my take is that he is fitting into what his team needs. I think he can play without the ball, even not as the primary ball handler, when in the best interest of his team.
by Punisher#8 on Jul 1, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cavs Offense
Is sort of non-existent when things get tight. All season long they seemed to be able to share the ball and carve teams up with scoring all over the court. Once defenses got tougher, they went to LeBron more and more and the other 4 guys started just watching. That’s coaching.
by BLayne23 on Jul 1, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if MJ in his early years would have liked to play with Jefferson/Love/Rubio type players. I guess what I’m saying is MJ was considered the same way people look at LeBron now. If MJ can and did change, why not LeBron. If he becomes less of a slasher/bangor type player he may extend his career two or three more years.
That being said, I read on RealGM this AM that the Cavs are looking for big wing men to play LB at the PF. I don’t understand the reasoning behind that at all. . .
Sometimes the obvious is hidden.
by frankenhoops on Jul 1, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that is a little weird
It’s much easier to double team a PF than a SF, isn’t it?
by oblivionspocket on Jul 1, 2009 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would have to believe this is a part-time move...
And an attempt to use LeBron in a way similar to that of Shawn Marion in the open court. It could also allow James to match up against guys like Rashard Lewis at the 4, which could cut down on the advantage teams with versatile, athletic 4’s had on the Cavs last year. Basically, if they do this, they’re 100% committing to building their team to get past Orlando next year.
However, it occurs to me if they bring in Charlie Villanueva they’d be able to match up with the Magic and Lewis just fine without having to move LeBron out of the 3 at all.
by BLayne23 on Jul 1, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Sometimes the obvious is hidden.
by frankenhoops on Jul 1, 2009 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The one thing that I can’t swallow is that if Rubio really doesn’t want to play here. What’s the use in forcing him? He’s never gonna try and when his contract runs out he’s outta here. What’s the use in letting him grow with our core just to let him go after that… I’m not saying that we have to trade him now but I’d really wanna know if he’s gonna bolt or not…
Beater of the early Thabeet drum ... but not so much of the late one
by Wim (Belgium) on Jul 1, 2009 9:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he even knows...
The bottom line is that it’s more likely for players to extend their deals with their current teams because they can pay them the most. Also, he’s got no choice but to play as well as he can in order to make more money with his second deal.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jul 1, 2009 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think you can proceed on that basis
I mean, really. What rookie is going to think…sweet! I got drafted by the Wolves! I want to play my whole career there! I don’t care if it’s freezing in the winter and it’s a losing team.
The point is that the Wolves have a minimum of 5 years with any first rounder that signs. You can’t have a longer horizon that that.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 1, 2009 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Both points taken
And I hope you guys ’ll give him a very warm welcome if and when he enters the court for the first time!
Beater of the early Thabeet drum ... but not so much of the late one
by Wim (Belgium) on Jul 1, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is in Rubio's interests to perform, Wim.
If he “phone’s it in” or returns to Europe half way through his deal, he won’t get traded (no one will want him) and no one is going to offer him a big deal.
by Auswolf on Jul 1, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't believe that Rubio would sandbag it.
Dude’s gonna be motivated to show he’s great, even if he’s not crazy about his team. Rubio’s only 18, he’s a young man in a hurry.
by princelyfrank on Jul 1, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is the...
company line. This is straight from an email I sent to a FO staffer (not a ticket seller or PR guy either) asking about the Rubio situation. I asked the following questions:
If Rubio decides to play in Europe at DKV (or any other club), it is my understanding that the Wolves hold his rights in perpetuity. As of now, it is being reported that the buyout at DKV is in the $6.6 million range, but is being negotiated and may be decreased. If Rubio were to move to a different Euro club, how would that affect the buyout? Would the clause be transferred to his new club as is or could it be re-negotiated?
Does the buyout clause have a July 1st date to be resolved? I have read that DKV will ask for the full buyout amount after July 1st, but are open to negotiations before.
What does DKV owe to the Spanish government? There are reports that DKV owes back taxes of a considerable amount and are in need of the Rubio buyout money to pay the debt.
Being picked at 5 has Rubio making a shade under $9 million over the first three years of his NBA contract using the 2009 rookie scale. If he were to wait a year and sign in 2010, does he then fall into the 2010 rookie scale? Is the 2010 scale supposed to be more than the 2009? Does his current buyout clause decrease year by year so it would be lower in 2010?
Here is the response:
Minneapleseed,
Thanks for the note. The Rubio situation is complicated, but David Kahn’s stance is simple. We can wait for him. He is only 18 going on 19. When you draft a player, you retain his rights for as long as he is playing professionally. For a player to becme a FA, he must notify the club that drafted him by July 1 that he is completely free of all obligations and is prepared to sign a contract. The club then has till Sept 10 to offer a contract. If theplayer does not sign the contract and does not play professionally for the entire season, then that player becomes a FA the following July 1st.
International contracts are different than in the NBA. FIBA has different rules that we honor and they honor NBA rules. Rubio’s contract can be bought by another team (and they deal with the buyout). These are done so the clubs can make money when the player goes to the NBA and the agents can make money.
If Ricky does not come immediately, then he develops more and matures more and whenhe does come he is more prepared to help our team immediately. We can wait. Meanwhile, Flynn is a player that I am very high on. You will like his passion, energy, leadership, toughness and talent. Besides all that, he is a good person and has great charisma. He will earn minutes sooner than what people think. At #28, we were happy to see Ellington available. Most picks in the late first have a sli chance, but he gives us something we need (shooting). Henk Norel, who we drafted in the second round is a 7’ player who can shoot and who also plays with passion. He is not ready now, but has upside for the future. Obviously, he is a longshot, but I like his potential.
Thanks for your continued interest and support.
FO
Note the final paragraph with the sell job on Flynn. I’m trying not to read between the lines here, but at the same time I think it would be wise to temper expectations of Rubio in a Wolves uni next year. Either that or the FO is playing this one brilliantly, holding all the cards close to their chest. The more I hear, the less I know what to make of it…
by Minneapleseed on Jul 1, 2009 9:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Interesting,
thanks for the post.
And I will buy you one reasonably-priced beverage of your choice if you were actually able to convince an employee of a professional sports organization to address you as “Minneapleseed.”
Rooting for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 10:20 a.m. on June 24th, 2009
by PoorDick on Jul 1, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
No drink for me though. The names were changed to protect the innocent…
I’m trying to get more out of them and will post anything else that comes my way. I’m most interested in the future buyout number and how the rookie scale works next year.
I’m also going to ask about the lawsuit and follow up on the questions that were skipped.
by Minneapleseed on Jul 1, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The question of...
the 2009 rookie pay scale rolling over to 2010 (or whatever year he comes to the NBA) or increasing to the current year scale wasn’t answered. I believe that may have a material interest to both RR an the FO. I think (and Matty correct me if I’m wrong) it was alluded that the 2009 rookie scale (and attached contract years) would hold true for any future year.
Thanks for the post.
by Boss10 on Jul 1, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Noticed they didn't answer all your questions...
I can tell you that if another EuroLeague team buys his rights, the buyout clause does not automatically transfer. However, when RR and the team agree to a new contract, they would have to negotiate a completely new buyout clause. It is extremely likely that the new clause would be higher since the new team will be spending millions on acquiring him, and won’t want to lose him for nothing or a significant loss.
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
by mutleyil on Jul 1, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
It seems to me that another European club would want to have Rubio for at least 3 years if they pay the buyout to Joventut, otherwise, it doesn’t seem worth it.
Thus, I would assume Rubio’s new contract would include a large buyout for at least that amount of time.
That could happen, I guess, but for a guy who seemed so gung ho on getting to the NBA, it would be disappointing. In addition, it obviously delays his free agency in the NBA, as has been noted repeatedly.
If he comes now, he’s potentially a free agent at 24. That means he could be looking at 2 huge contracts (or one with a huge extension). If he comes in 3 years, he’s a free agent at 27, and he isn’t getting 2 huge contracts. Depending on how everything works out, the difference could be quite significant.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 1, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is exactly the point
His second free agent contract is the thing Rubio’s parents need to think about. A 28 year old going into his 2nd FA contract? Ten years from now that could easily be 6 years 140 million. A 30 year old? Maybe 5 and 100. If he thinks he is going to be a max player holding out 2 years to end up with 10 million more in 2013 (minus the difference in endorsements) could cost him 50 million. Nothing to sneeze at.
by CaliWolf on Jul 1, 2009 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny thing btw
Norel is Dutch and there’s Devin Green who played for Base Oostende on our summer league team; that’s a 20 minute drive from where I live ;)….
Now we only need an austrialian guy and the fanbase is covered :)
Beater of the early Thabeet drum ... but not so much of the late one
by Wim (Belgium) on Jul 1, 2009 10:03 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Joe Ingles!
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by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 1, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
never mind...
…he’s playing in the summer league with the warriors.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 1, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sob.
Ingles won’t be NBA ready this year, but I think he’ll be worth a look next season.
by Auswolf on Jul 1, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's close....
It will be interesting to see if Mills gets any run with the Blazers.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 1, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I generally agree with this thought process, except for 1 (pretty important) thing:
The one card that RR and his agent hold is the fact that the Wolves are hemmoraging money, season ticket holders and general fan interest. We all know (as does Fegan) that a marketing campaign built on Flynn and Ellington (assuming no more deals are made) as replacements to Foye and Miller (whatever their faults) isn’t gonna change that.
So while the wolves can wait for 2 years, it’s not just as simple as calling his bluff, b/c not having RR here (or not trading him for fair value and having whatever those assets are on the roster) is costing the Wolves a LOT of money too. We all know that Taylor can afford it, but it doesn’t mean that he wants to lose that money, or that it’s smart of him to not look to get fair value (again, whatever that means) right now.
Because RR will bring some immediate national / international star power to the roster (and presumably a lot of Spanish fans) as well as (hopefully) at least an appearance or two on national TV, in some ways, I’d argue he’s TOO valuable to trade, unless you get assets back that really will make you a credible threat to make the palyoffs this year (I’m not arguing this is possible, just what you would have to do to replace the buzz of RR being here). Which means I don’t think that Flynn should be looking at buying a house here in town.
by Sterno on Jul 1, 2009 10:59 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This is from the RealGM Wolves board:
http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=919088&start=645
Some good info, so I thought I’d pass it on. Not sure of the veracity, but w/e:
“A couple years ago I got to meet and hang out with Xavier, FB&G’s defacto European corrispondent, and at the time he said I needed to see more of this 16 year old named Ricky Rubio. Now, Rubio and his future plans are the talk of the NBA, and Xavier (a professional youth team coach) kindly has provided us a perspective from Spain on the player and everything going on around him.
Since Ricky Rubio said he was planning to enter the 09 NBA draft I’ve been reading plenty of things about him, some of which I do not agree with. I’ve wanted to talk about him since before the playoff started but the Lakers where on the championship run and Rubio was not in team’s plan I decided to postpone this conversation to a better time. I think this time has come.
First of all, on the court basketball. Rubio is not NBA ready. He has incredible talent, feel for the game and has been playing pro since he was 15, 4 years ago. I read somewhere he has zero althletic ability and the PG transition from college to NBA is tough but from FIBA ball to NBA is even harder. Not every PG hits the league as ready as Rose or Paul. His shooting mechanic scares me, a lot; he has to work on it. Of course his shooting is a concern but so was Calderon’s and look at him right now. Ricky is the kind of kid that would hardly make the rookie all-star team but probably be starting with the sophomores a year later. I have no doubt that Ricky is the second best thing of this draft. He won’t save any franchise, nor will Griffin, but in this weak draft those two are the cream of the crop. Minnesota or the team that finally signs him if he makes it to the NBA, will have a gem to work on, but have to understand that his first year will be a transition year, he’s very young and will take a big leap upwards by his second NBA season. In the future I could see him being an above average defensive PG, Nash-like passing skills but not as close as a shooter.
But then there is the off court issue. Things could have been done better, for sure, but the situation is at a point that is impossible to go back.
The buyout issue: Back when he was 15, Ricky signed his first professional contract that settled a high buyout along with a high salary for a 15-year-old boy, which he approved. Joventut is mostly a club that creates players, finds them at 11-12 and teaches them basketball so they can someday play on the senior team (for the record, two Joventud players have been drafted this year in the first round, Rubio and Eyenga, and also Henk Norel in the second round, Rudy Fernández has also been raised in Joventud youth teams). The buyout is like a security for the team that all the money invested in raising the player will not be lost whenever a richer club comes and pays a few bucks for the kid. During 08 summer, Ricky asked the team to reduce the buyout. There were rumors of other top European teams trying to sign Rubio and Joventut offered him to lower by the half his NBA buyout by doubling the money an European team should pay. Rubio didn’t accept that saying he was planning to complete the whole contract with the team. A year later, he denounced the team that has created him for not lowering the buyout to let him play in the NBA. His agent says that his salary is too cheap compared with the high buyout. Usually, it’s the new team that pays the buyout or a compensation agreed with the club, but as the NBA do not allow teams to pay it, the player has to clear that issue. A friendly agreement was arranged last year with Rudy Fernández but after this public denouncing a friendly ending seems almost impossible.
Being the 5th selection: That was really a kick in his balls. If Minnesota jumped on the 2nd pick and drafted him there would be no problem (unless the second was Memphis where he wanted nothing to do with them, his feelings are that Mayo is Memphis PG of the future plus other Spaniards with similar winning mentality as him having trouble there). Don’t make any issue about the "Minnesota is cold" thing. He also said about OKC that his best friend lives nearby. As I read that I talked to that friend. After the conversation I had the impression that the answers where just that, quick answers. The important thing here is the money. Being a 2nd or 3rd pick guaranteed him an easy buyout payment in the case a friendly arrangement wasn’t possible. The 4th pick had more problems but he liked the situation for him (few pressure, nice weather and still an interesting contract) but then Sacramento took Evans and Sota just drafted the PG they wanted right after him. That doesn’t give him confidence. How would you feel if you had to pay to take a job and your new company just hired someone to do the same exact thing as you? With his contract set by the 5th pick, his chances of paying the buyout and still make some money rely on playing on a big city team where he could sign for bigger sponsor endorsements. But the reason the Kings or the Thunder didn’t select him is Dan Fegan. Rubio did few workouts because of his agent. A big buyout from Spain and no possibility to really test the kid against other players is what kept the Kings perfect fit away from him. His aggressiveness and bad ways were well reported as happened with Yi. When I found out that Rubio signed with Fegan my first thought was "Oooh god, that’s gonna be ugly".
The future: in coming days we’ll know what the judge say about the buyout issue. That will determine how hard will it be to be free from Joventut. Coming back to his longtime club seems unlikely as team president said, "asking a judge to take part opens a wound which remains open" so he’ll probably be looking for another Euro team (Real Madrid, FC Barcelona and Unicaja Malaga are considered frontrunners) or signing with the Wolves or the NBA team that hold his rights.
I’m a Joventut season ticket holder, I coach for the youth program that developed Ricky before he went to Joventut. I’ve seen a lot of this kid and he deserves being in the NBA. I fully understand that he doesn’t want to go to a losing team or a team he feels he don’t fit if he has to pay for it and I really wish him the best, but I’m not happy with how the things have evolved. Both Spanish and American agents have done a bad job and the kid is paying for it."
—Xavier
Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.
by Xand1 on Jul 1, 2009 11:12 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
a named source
kudos to you for being better then actual journalists at their job!
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jul 2, 2009 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The big "x" factor in this line of thinking is that Kahn doesn't crap his pants...
… and trade Rubio as this stalemat with Fegan drags on. Kahn is smart enough to know that he has the leverage in this situation. Let’s hope that he isn’t so infatuated with Flynn that he decides to trade Rubio as time drags on.
Cap’n Hack, is there any chance Monta gets traded this offseason? I’d still love to bring him here to play off the ball next to Rubio or Flynn. That would be one of the fastest backcourts in the league and a nice thing to pair with Love’s outlet passing and Brewer’s ability to run the wings. I’d trade Flynn and expirings for Monta, but I don’t know if the Warriors would. Still, I don’t see how he plays point long-term, and I don’t see how he, Curry, and Jackson coexist in that backcourt.
by Shogun on Jul 1, 2009 11:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Rubio and Flynn Together
Potential playing time scenario at our 1, 2, and 3 with current roster:
PG Rubio 30 mins, Flynn 18 mins
SG Brewer 18 mins, Ellington 18 mins, Flynn 12 mins
SF Gomes 36 mins, Brewer 12 mins
Is this really that f-ed up? Both Rubio and Flynn spend the majority of their minutes at the 1 and there is a stretch of 6 minutes per half that they are on the court together. Oooooh, how controversial! The horror of having two ball-handlers on the court at the same time against other teams’ second units!!!!
As rookies, getting 30 minutes per night is plenty of PT to make an impact and grow together…It’s more than our previous first rounders the past few years have played their rookie years! Now if both end up being absolute studs and need to be full-time PG’s, meaning 36+ minutes per night, then so be it – we trade the lesser of the two. But there is no reason this tandem can’t work in the short-term. The real casualty here is Telfair.
by Rascal Flatts on Jul 1, 2009 12:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It's not f-ed up...
…at all and it’s one of the weakest talking points against the idea out there. Rubio will have enough trouble as it is guarding anyone one-on-one and being next to Flynn will hardly be his biggest problem.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 1, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The f-ed up thing...
… is the opportunity cost involved in taking Flynn when DeRozen could’ve been had at 8. Even though I’m not a DeRozen fan, I think a wiser move would’ve been to trade down so NY could’ve taken Curry at 6 and we could’ve taken DeRozen, a bona fide two guard with upside, at 8, giving us the two guard we need and averting the awkward Rubio/Flynn rivalry. I agree that Rascal’s scenario doesn’t look all that bad, but this alternative would’ve looked a lot better imo.
by Shogun on Jul 1, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree..
…I had DeRozan pegged in the top tier and he could have played across the 2/3. Although, the more I think about it, the less I buy the idea that Flynn is the problem for Rubio. It just would have been nice to see them take DeRozan…although, that may have given the Wolves less leverage with Rubio. It’s a weird situation.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 1, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not so sure that deal was on the table
All reports I’ve read is that Knicks offered Chandler + #8 to move up to #5 to select Rubio, but made no such offer to move up to #6. I doubt Kahn would have left obvious value like this on the table knowing that the Knicks and Warriors were both hot for one of Curry and Hill, and they would have had no problem getting Flynn at #8.
By making that trade they pay Flynn less and acquire another asset. I doubt it was on the table.
by Ebomb on Jul 1, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems like NY fans...
Liked Curry more than Walsh and D’Antoni did. Combine that with their aggressive courting of Jason Kidd(?), and it seems like Curry wasn’t as serious an option for the Knicks as it was for Curry.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jul 1, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's interesting
To read their one year pursuit of Kidd, which makes a lot of sense. They need to do everything in their power to Win in 09-10 so that unprotected 1st rounder isn’t a top pick. Imagine the PR disaster of winning of the lottery only to see that pick go to the Jazz.
by Ebomb on Jul 1, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
There are ways to do this so that they both get reasonable minutes and are on the court together for limited time. For example, Rubio could play 32 minutes a night, exclusively at the point, Flynn could play 26 minutes a night split, and they would have to be on the court together for all of 10 minutes.
However, that isn’t the only issue. There’s still the idea that they have to compete to be the team’s point guard of the future. That if one of them plays better, the other loses development time.
Look, I’m not sayin’…I’m just sayin’…I can see why both of them might be unhappy about this.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 1, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's fair...
….I just think the idea of Flynn being a deal-stopper is overblown. Neither of these guys have played a minute in the NBA and Fegan is tossing around some pretty wild junk for guys with that little experience.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 1, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, in terms of development...
…if either guy is afraid of not ‘winning’ the PG competition, then they aren’t going to be a front-line NBA starter anyway. They are both going to struggle mightily as PGs for at least the first year. Even 20 minutes a night at PG is going to be a stretch for both guys this season.
And, is Rubio going to be better next year by playing 24 minutes in Spain instead of 20 minutes in the NBA? Is Flynn going to be worse because he has to play 8 minutes with a great passer and ‘only’ gets 15 at the point? No and No. If it turns out they are peanut butter and chocolate on the court together both win. If it turns out only one can play, so be it, the ‘loser’ wasn’t going to be a stud anyway, nd wouldn’t have been in the absence of the other because – or at least, at least the first year neither is taking PG minutes from the other.
So, I agree, this dueling PGs being a problem simply isn’t.
by CaliWolf on Jul 1, 2009 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
I originally was of the mindset that it could work, but that’s partially besides the point. They need to be convinced that it would work, and it’s very difficult to convince rookies of that when all of their preparation to this point has been to play PG in the NBA. It’s easier to convince a guy like KJ that he’s better off learning to play with Kidd/Nash than it is to compete with them because KJ had built his reputation at that point and was looking to win.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jul 1, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Flynn
has to know his place here. He was selected after Rubio. Rubio played on an Olympic team and has been a professional for multiple years. Rubio starts, Flynn is the 6th man energizer bunny. Hell, we need scoring on this roster. Flynn can provide much more of this than Rubio can at this point. He’ll get plenty of shots and plenty of opportunities to shine without having to be our starting PG day one. And if Rubio falls flat on his face, guess who is the benficiary? The Flynn-Rubio issue should not be hard to overcome with either player given our desperate need for backcourt playmakers and scoring.
by Rascal Flatts on Jul 1, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
foreign rights
good summary
the only hole that I see is the assumption that everyone makes that you have to “sit out” a year
that’s not what the CBA says.
it only says the player has to be “under no contractual or other legal impediment to sign and play with such Team”
Ricky could sign a 2 or 3 year deal, use it to pay his bonus, then give his notice to the Wolves that he’s free to sign, then reject their offer, then go “week to week” (i.e., no contract) with a team for a year, and then reenter the draft at the end of that year
presto…NY
no one seems to be interpreting it that way but I’m not sure why not. If I were Fegan I’d threaten to litigate that issue. I think there’s some leverage
Courts in the U.S. are inclined to favor employees over employers where there’s ambiguity
Does anyone know if this has been litigated? More likely than not I am missing something. Fegan did go to Yale Law School so I would think his deviant mind would have considered that already.
by alphatwolf on Jul 1, 2009 3:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
foreign rights, cont.
or even simpler Ricky could just play out the remaining years on his contract with no buyout and then find some place to play w/o a contract…then he’s back in the draft
by alphatwolf on Jul 1, 2009 3:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Interesting, but
1) He looks like a massive douche and has to deal with a PR problem
2) So he goes into the draft again… what if another team drafts him that he doesn’t approve of?
3) He’s probably losing a ton of money doing this
by Matty_P on Jul 1, 2009 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't think it would be a ton
he would essentially be playing two years for nothing here anyway
but if I was Kahn I would just tell Fegan that we would draft him again and they’ll be right back where they started
by alphatwolf on Jul 1, 2009 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd have to see what the CBA actually says before I rendered a legal opinion
but your scenario seems rather farfetched to me.
You are suggesting that he play 2-3 more years in Europe with a big club, let that contract run out. Then go a year without a contract, but still playing? Getting paid in cash after every game or something? I don’t think that would work for a couple of reasons, but maybe I’m not understanding what you mean.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 1, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree Eric...
I think the Spanish IRS would have a little problem with an internationally famous basketball player playing for “nothing” under no contract. No way this would ever happen. If he plays, he has to have a contract stipulating terms and compensation.
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
by mutleyil on Jul 1, 2009 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention that he’s potentially costing himself tens of millions of dollars in the long run. If he bumps back his NBA debut 3 years, then, if I’m correct and you’re elligible for an extension after 3 years, he’s looking at getting his first big deal at age 24 instead of age 21. The first deal is fine and dandy, but do you think teams are going to be a little more hesitant to shell out big cash to a 29 year old or a 26 year old? His second big deal could suffer in a big way if he does this.
Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.
by Xand1 on Jul 1, 2009 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not gonna work
Even if you go game-to-game, a contract is in force for that game. If you are being compensated for a team for performing a service (playing basketball), that’s a contract.
by SeanTO on Jul 1, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not that he can't have a contract
he can’t get payed at all
It has to be a real sit out.
by Auswolf on Jul 1, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess my point is
that the CBA doesn’t say you have to sit out, it doesn’t say you can’t get paid, it says that you have to be "under no contractual or other legal impediment to sign and play with such Team". That’s it. Most people just work on an “at-will” basis, not under an employment contract. For most people, even when they are working and collecting a paycheck, they are under no ‘contractual’ impediment from going to another job.
The NBA FO is nothing but lawyers, so maybe they are OK with it. But I think it is a big hole as it reads and it just hasn’t been litigated because there have never been circumstances where anyone has wanted to get back in the draft bad enough to be willing to play without a contract.
by alphatwolf on Jul 1, 2009 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At will IS a contract
contracts don’t have to be written down.
Without getting too didactic, a contract requires offer, acceptance, and consideration. It does not require a writing.
At will employment means it’s at will, it doesn’t mean there isn’t a contractual relationship. There most certainly is.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 1, 2009 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
it has to be a ‘contractual impediment’. they could have just said contract. instead they said contractual which clearly modifies impediment. I don’t think any judge is going to say that at-will employment is a contractual impediment to signing and playing for the team. at-will is the exact opposite of that.
by alphatwolf on Jul 1, 2009 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But if he's playing for another club
even if only for 1 day, it IS a contractual impediment to him playing for the Wolves.
Plus, like I say, it’s not like the ACB or any legitimate league is going to permit that sort of arrangement.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 1, 2009 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
here's an article from the Yi situation
where they are concerned about whether he has a written contract
and where they speculate that playing for the national team w/o a contract would have started the clock ticking
by alphatwolf on Jul 1, 2009 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rubio would have to eat...
….$6 mil without a job for this to happen. He has a contract and the Spanish National Team isn’t going to make the buyout. Even if someone does front the money, does he really play for the national team to get out of 1 year of getting paid only to have the chance to reenter the draft with a Wolves team with 3 1st round picks? The so-called Nuclear Option just isn’t that realistic. He can make money with the Wolves provided they can work out a payment plan. A rookie contract at the 5 slot is still a lot of money…$6 million buyout or not. This kid could enter the NBA this year and hit his 2nd contract at 23-24. That’s leaving an awful lot of money on the table to not want to play for the Wolves.
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by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 1, 2009 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think its likely
it’s just that I was questioning whether he had to “sit out”
doesn’t seem to be required if you’re not playing under a contract
and he doesn’t have to pay the buyout if he plays out his contract (2 years) I think
and he’s only breaking even after 2 years after paying the buyout anyways
but I think he doesn’t do that because he pushes himself back on getting to the second contract
you would really have to hate minneapolis to go that route
by alphatwolf on Jul 2, 2009 12:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's fair...
…i just believe that this whole operation right now is geared around getting an acceptable payout plan from joventut or whoever owns the debt. 2 years of the rookie contract are guaranteed but if the kid is any good (and his agent should think he is), then he’s going to have more than 2 years in the nba and they should be able to move a payment plan out to 4 years where he isn’t playing for free for the first 2 years. i’m sure someone would insure the kid for a 4-5 year payment plan. the question is who?
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by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 2, 2009 1:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that woud be the way to do it
push most of it to the back end so you cash flow a little bit more up front
depends on how much they make him pay for taking on that add’l risk
by alphatwolf on Jul 2, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wells Fargo is in a pretty good spot for a bank in the US
Maybe they’d like to risk a $6m loan?
by McCleak on Jul 3, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
US Bank
pitches “Timberwolves checking accounts” at games for T-shirts. Maybe they can give Rubio a break on the loan rate if they can put his picture on the checkbook.
by Punisher#8 on Jul 3, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And besides
Those European Leagues aren’t exactly the wild west. They have rules too. I’m sure they require a written contract before someone can play.
The language you cited seems to cover the possible contingencies. I’m not worried about that.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 1, 2009 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is what Larry Coon has to say
I
f the player is already under contract to, or signs a contract with a non-NBA team, the team retains the player’s draft rights for one year after the player’s obligation to the non-NBA team ends. Essentially, the clock stops as long as the player plays pro ball outside the NBA. Players are not included in the team’s team salary during the regular season while the player is under contract with a non-NBA team.
by Auswolf on Jul 2, 2009 2:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like the Rascal Flatts scenario.
Dividing up the minutes between the two players does not seem crazy. What I expect from Kahn over the next year or so is to get studs at 2 and 3 using the draft and expiring contracts. Even a minutes eater at 5 is possible. There is enough firepower with draft picks and contracts to make it happen.
by Elastico on Jul 1, 2009 3:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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