"They Play the Same Position"
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jul 1, 2009 8:28 PM CDT
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PrintA Wolves high draft pick has been selected despite playing the same position as another talented player on the team. Everyone wonders why the front office believes these two players, who supposedly play the same position, can coexist on the floor. The front office goes with a consistent viewpoint: the two players don't have the same strengths and weaknesses, so they can play together. Furthermore, they are both good enough to create as many or more matchup problems as they are faced with. Still, people are skeptical, partially because they had a chance at a well-known college player who seemed to be a better fit.
At this point, if asked who the two players were, there'd be more than one correct answer. In a lot of ways, the Jefferson/Love redundancy and the Rubio/Flynn redundancy are similar. The only big difference is that Jefferson had already gotten paid by the time Love was drafted.
Considering that fact, does it surprise anyone else that Love or his agent didn't make similar rumblings after last year's draft? After all, he had more of a case that playing with a guy who played the same position would affect his future earnings: Jefferson was already locked in to a reasonable deal, there was a chance Love would be faced with physical mismatches which could make him more prone to injury, and the team's offense was centered around showcasing Jefferson's talents, which meant Love would have to take a backseat. To compound things further, the team ran zero offensive sets to capitalize on Love's strengths (besides rebounding), giving him the ball in the post when that was the weakest aspect of his game.
I don't know how good Kevin Love will be, but after seeing the rumblings about the Wolves' draft, I'm proud of the way he handled his situation last year. In a sense, he was more disadvantaged than either Rubio or Flynn would be this year if they both are on the roster. He got drafted into a team with a guy who plays his position, yet embraced the city and told the other guy, "you're going to love playing with me." He wasn't a fan favorite and was scapegoated by fans who were seduced by O.J. Mayo's hot start. The team ran nothing on offense that catered to his strengths, and by the time he started to establish himself, Jefferson got injured and he became the starting center on a team starting either a 6'5 power forward or a 6'8 small forward next to him on the front line, while playing with perimeter players who could claim royalties for embodying the term "matador defense."
Okay, enough about that. Does anyone else see similarities in the Jefferson/Love and Rubio/Flynn situations?
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Only superficially
Mostly because I think Jefferson is really a center, whereas Love is a classic power forward.
I really see Rubio and Flynn as much more problematic, mostly because I don’t see what Flynn does for you if he doesn’t have the ball in his hands. Not to say he won’t have opportunities with the ball in his hands, but it just doesn’t seem like a fit.
I'm not feeling it.
Offensive structure generally has one guard playing on the ball, two swingmen off the ball, and two pivot men off the ball. Within the groups of two, it’s helpful to have one of each player who fits the defined role of SG/SF and PF/C, but not at all uncommon to see two of the same type have success together. Dual point guards not so much.
Run and gun
With 48 minutes at the PG slot, these two really only need to play together for about 10-12 minutes per game their rookie year. That will give them each pleeeeeeenty of time to showcase their skills and have the ball in their hands. When they are on the floor together though, you push, push, push, push. You throw Brew in at the 3 and try to win the battle of possessions with steals and easy fast-break baskets. Jefferson should be on the bench and Love should be in the game.
Keep in mind that Rubio is not only Europe’s best passer, he is their best ball hawk too, averaging nearly 4 steals per 40 minutes of action. The kid has the Gretzky/Bird 6th sense of seeing things before they occur. Rubio, Flynn, and Brewer can wreak a ton of havoc defensively in terms of getting into passing lanes. They can’t shoot a lick, but hey, it won’t matter if it’s a layup drill!
I agree that there is a way to get them both
minutes without them having to be on the court together all that much. I still think they are mismatched, though.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 1, 2009 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Bassy?
I’ve seen the whole 30 min/30 min with only 18 of them overlapping pitch made before; it’s the same thing we said in trying to justify the Jefferson/Love combo.
But if we intend to do this with our two rookie point guards, following the division of minutes laid out here and elsewhere, it would mean that Sebastian Telfair doesn’t see the floor a single minute all season, unless we’re playing him at shooting guard instead.
Now Bassy’s limitations as a starting point guard in this league have been well documented, but he could potentially be among the league’s very best backups at the position. We’ve got him signed to a reasonable deal and it seems he likes his situation here after having bounced around a bit earlier in his career.
We’re throwing all of this away if Rubio/Flynn is here to stay, and that counts against the overall viability of the combo going forward. The argument that “best case scenario we’ll have a good point guard for a starter and a backup” doesn’t hold any water, because that would already have been the case had we merely drafted one or the other.
Well, this conversation is assuming
both Rubio and Flynn are here.
In that case, I hope they move Bassy, mostly for his sake. He’s still a fairly young guy trying to establish his career. Having him here with two rookies who need to play his position really isn’t fair to him.
They will need someone else, but better a Kevin Ollie type who is at the end of things.
I mean, it’s very possible that at least one of Rubio and Flynn, even if they are both here, will not really be ready to play. So having them fill all the PG minutes is optimistic; but I don’t think it’s fair to Bassy to put him in the situation where that might happen, and where none of the fans actually want him to play.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 1, 2009 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions
If Kahn drafted Rubio and Flynn
He’s got to be all in, meaning he gives them minutes and plays them, or trades one of them. And if they both are here this upcoming season, Bassy is absolutely a casualty. Something has to give and Bassy will need to be the one sacrificed, either as a bench warmer or traded (most likely traded, since I agree he deserves to play). If Rubio doesn’t come over, then great, Bassy and Flynn can split the PG duties just fine.
by Rascal Flatts on Jul 2, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Love was a rookie, Al just got his second contract
The timing makes a difference. These two guys just got drafted and really are competing with each other in a sense (for scare $ when their second contracts come up, at the same position).
I think they could play effectively together, but the on-the-court piece of this is easier than the off-the-court.
Excellent point about the timing
Jefferson was already established as our best player. Love wasn’t competing as much as he needed to fit in.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 1, 2009 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions
But that also means Love came in...
At an increased disadvantage. “He needed to fit in” assumes he wasn’t getting the opportunity Rubio probably would get and seems to want. In this analogy, Rubio is not compared to Love but to Jefferson. What’s worse: getting the chance to compete for a job in which you have the upper hand, or not getting the chance to compete for a job because the other guy has the upper hand? I just think that if the Rubio camp is saying the presence of Flynn on the roster affects Rubio’s future earnings that Love had the same or better argument. Bottom line: I think he was placed into the worst situation for him of all lottery picks and still had a decent year, and he handled the situation as well as one could expect.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jul 2, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Love certainly had a bad situation
But it’s not as if he only saw the floor for 12 minutes a game behind Al, while two other centers on the roster covered the other 48 minutes.
The difference between his and Rubio’s situations is that there are 96 minutes for big men to go around compared to only 48 at point guard. Love didn’t have to sacrifice playing time to other guys on the roster, and when he did play, he got the PF spot, not Al. And when he did play center, Love playing center alongside another power forward isn’t as drastic a role-change as a Rubio playing SG alongside another PG.
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