07-08 vs. 09-10
The offseason moves have accompanied with them concern about how many games the Wolves can be expected to win this season. This concern is legitimate, as the team has to this point given significant roles to at least 2 rookies and traded one of their top win shares guys (Miller) and top scorers (Foye). That's not even mentioning that Jefferson is coming back from an ACL injury.
But can this team, talent-wise and experience-wise, be any worse than the first team of the post-KG era?
On opening night, the team fielded this roster: Rashad McCants, Sebastian Telfair, Randy Foye (injured), Craig Smith, Greg Buckner, Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Corey Brewer, Antoine Walker, Al Jefferson, Chris Richard, Mark Madsen, Theo Ratliff, Michael Doleac, and Marko Jaric.
Of those players, only one was certain to be a capable contributor: Jefferson. Foye missed more than half of the season. Gomes and Smith had been rotation players for losing teams, which showed a glimpse of what they could do but also implied that they'd be riding the bench on a playoff team. Green and McCants had shown flashes of being good players but were unproven, and both had been backups until the trade of Ricky Davis late in camp bumped McCants into the starting lineup. Brewer and Richard were rookies.
The vets brought mostly experience and not much on-court production. Jaric was probably the most capable of the bunch, but previous seasons had established him as a role player at best. Ratliff was injured for most of the season and then was bought out when healthy. Walker had come off a below-average season for him and was showing signs of decline. Buckner, Doleac, and Madsen weren't regular rotation players on their teams in the previous season.
It's not certain who will be on this season's team, but I'm going to assume that Brewer won't be traded because his value is lower coming off of an injury and that Rubio won't be here (though I think there's a decent chance he will be). That means that Brewer, Ellington, Flynn, Jefferson, and Love are all good bets to be on the opening-night roster. Though it's not sure how much better he is, Brewer is better than he was as a rookie. I also think Jefferson is at least a little bit better than he was back then. Comparing Ellington with his fellow Tar Heel, I think he has less offensive skill than McCants but has the potential to be as productive if he's more efficient. Because Foye was injured most of the year, the best comparison for Flynn is Telfair. I give Flynn the edge because I think he'll be more productive offensively and possibly defensively. As the first big off the bench, I think it's safe to say Love was better than Smith last year and will be significantly better this year than the Rhino was in 07-08 if he's healthy.
I'm not going to speculate on which of the current vets will be on the team, so it's tough to say whether they'll be better than the vets in 07-08. This makes a full comparison difficult. I do think, however, that the vets on that team were below-average and that it's possible that Kahn signs a free agent or two to balance any roster deficiencies (scoring, shooting, defense, shot-blocking) and/or mentor the young players.
My opinion is that as long as Kahn doesn't make any bad moves (Jaric-for-Cassell/1st-rounder bad), this team will start the season with a roster more likely to be successful than the one that started the 07-08 season. What do you think?
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I think you are right, but that is a low bar.
They threw that team out there to see if anything would stick.
I think the biggest difference is this. In the NBA, more than any other sport, how much of an impact your best player makes is critical (IMO).
Big Al was coming into his own last season pre-injury. I don’t think it was comparable to 07-08, where he had never been “the man”. How does he come back this year?
I get that...
But this is partially in response to those who say anything from “they’ll be lucky to win 20” to “they’re going to challenge the ’72-73 Sixers for the worst record in history.” The 07-08 team won 22.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jul 26, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Of course, I agree with you they will be better than that squad.
There are going to be some truly painful moments with the young guards, but all it will take is Al back healthy to be much better.
The ‘72-73 Sixers comments are absurd. Do people even remember the Wolves team that had the worst record in the league (and didn’t get Shaq), or the Grizz a few years after that? Those teams didn’t even set the record.
Maybe you are right
but a couple of things: that team was bad, as Punisher points out, that’s a low bar. 22 wins that season.
Also, you are making some assumptions about this year’s rookies that might wind up being optimistic. McCants actually scored 15 a night that year in 26 minutes and shot 45%. Do you really see Ellington getting anywhere near there? We don’t even know if Ellington can play in the NBA at this point. It’s also possible that Flynn won’t be able to match Telfair’s season that year.
Because of the possible variances in results for the rookies and Brewer, it’s very hard to predict how good they will be this year. I can see anything from 14 wins to 32 wins or so. I fear the former, which would not be good. they need to compete.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 26, 2009 12:27 PM CDT reply actions
That's generally the problem...
With trying to compare rookies with previous players: we already know how those guys did. Making assumptions is unavoidable when doing any projections. But it does come down to what people have observed. Those who saw McCants and Telfair play before that season have to compare what they saw with what they’ve seen out of Flynn and Ellington. From what I’ve seen, I’d say Flynn will be better next season but Ellington won’t. However, if Ellington is consistent, plays within the system, plays decent defense, and doesn’t choke during the 4th quarter, I think he has the chance to contribute to as many or more wins as McCants (1.7 win shares in 07-08).
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jul 26, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Team vs individual talent
For me that is what this comes down to. McCants may be a more gifted scorer (dude had talent), but Ellington’s ability and willingness to play within the team concept will (I think) contribute to more team success. The players assembled this year are a better group collectively IMO vs that first group. I still don’t know how much they’ll win, but I think they will look better and play more competitively.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Jul 26, 2009 2:14 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
It's hard to make an educated guess
Considering Al’s health and to a lesser degree Rubio’s arrival. If they have to give Bobby Brown serious minutes- this will create further problems. I think this is a pretty solid take overall. I said earlier it wouldn’t shock me to see them win 30 games (Considering Al and Love) and the backcourt play wasn’t exactly stellar last season. Flynn’s probably a slight upgrade at this point in time to Bassy. Ellington and Brewer probably improve the team on the other end enough to minimize the loss of Foye and Miller. I’m not expecting anything great- But I would think 20 wins as a worse-case scenario.
We should have a site-wide contest
on the win total. Closest gets a night on the town with MAYN HOL UP, furthest away has to go to BlazersEdge and post true negative attributes of each Portland player.
Several reasons this team won’t be better than last year’s (or the 07-08 team), assuming the current roster stands (and I still think more change is gonna come over the next 12 months).
1. With or without Rubio, they’re going to be young. Very young. With only E. Thomas, Gomes, Jefferson, and Cardinal as decent older vets to offest Q’s attitude.
2. Injuries happen. And as soon as one befalls Flynn/Wayne the Drain/Q/Gomes/Love/AlJeff, this team will go from below average to worse.
3. The rumored coaching candidates are not only new, but almost completely void in head coaching experience.
4. As bad as the perimeter defense has been in the past year or two, it should be worse this year, at least to start. Corey the Cobra at full strength might change that.
5. I’m all for Kahn’s wholesale changes. But that philosophy doesn’t exactly create team cohesiveness at the start, and it takes a while for players to feel like they’re part of the core.
6. Also, tons of expiring contracts mean a lot of guys interested in personal performance at least as much as wins for the team.
7. The team and coach and Pork Chop are all better served with a “win later” attitude, rather than a “win now” outlook.
8. I don’t think we’ll see a sequel to “The Case of Mad Dog and the Missing Threes,” but this team would be perfectly happy to end up in the lottery once again in 2010.
Don’t get me wrong—I accept all the of the above as reality, and part of the process. But I also don’t think they’ll win more than one out of three games—so put me down for 24 (and MAYN? I’m partial to gin.)
Rooting for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 10:20 a.m. on June 24th, 2009
You guys bring up Portland a lot here :-)
Anywho, just for the losers, here you go!
Roy- Had a child out of wedlock, named the child after himself, played 1 on 5 in the final seconds of the 76ers game and tried a Kobe Bryant 22 foot turn around fadeaway at the buzzer.
LMA- Soft.
Blake- Chucks long 3s with 9 seconds left in a playoff game when the team is down by 3. Plays poor defense.
Oden- BUST! Raw offensively.
Batum- Can’t create his own shot.
Rudy- Rudy does nothing bad. Period. (Except maybe get owned by Ariza.)
Outlaw- Inefficient chucker with low BBIQ who doesn’t play defense
Przybilla- No offensive moves, shoots FTs like a goober.
Webster- Has to wear a boot for an entire season.
Miller- Has team ADD.
Bayless- Undersized SG who tries to play PG. Gets 6 turnovers per game in summer league. Can’t shoot, can’t play defense, and gets blocked every other play now that people know his one move.
Los Angeles Lakers 2009-2010 Western Conference Chumps
Myth
LMA doesn’t get defensive rebounds. He’s one of the better offensive rebounders in the NBA among PFs.
LMA also shares the floor with Przybilla who was 2nd in the NBA in DR%.
LMA is on one of the best rebounding teams in the NBA, so apparently his “lack of rebounding” doesn’t hurt Portland that much.
He’s not Kevin Love on the boards, he but also isn’t the rebounding bust you make him out to be.
Los Angeles Lakers 2009-2010 Western Conference Chumps
It's a Western Conference thing
Even if this year’s team is a little better than 07-08, the record may not change much. Looking at the playoff teams from last season, most except Houston have stayed the same or improved. Utah and New Orleans have stayed about the same, and OKC will be better (perhaps switching with Houston). Because there are about ten 45 win teams in the West, I still think the Wolves end up with 20-25 wins (depends on who makes game winning shots with Foye gone).
There will be game winning shots??
I’m all for a board on how many wins, but we need to have some kind of tie breaker, like who makes the last basket in the last game or something similar. Not a high scorer for the season, or most assists, but something that’ll make you think.
So – based on that – 26 wins and Rubio.
Sometimes the obvious is hidden.
by frankenhoops on Jul 29, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
A helpful hint on how to feel better
about the wolves record next year…I hope.
Lets say that for each game…win…or more likely lose, that we track the wolves ability to hit “Clutch Shots.” So the last posession of game, do the wolves actual make a shot or do they miss? Hell we could even track it at the half (probably be down by less than anyway), there would probably be more pressure then anyways. We can all pretend that we know how they will perform in the clutch in future seasons.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 7, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions

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