Regarding Little Birdies
by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 3, 2009 6:00 AM CDT
42 comments
No doubt that you have seen the Charlie Walters report about Ricky Rubio and two more years in Spain:
The Minnesota Timberwolves' top draft pick, Ricky Rubio, 18, will remain in Spain to play for his DKV Joventut basketball team for the remaining two years of his contract rather than try to move to the NBA this season, El Periodico reported today. The Barcelona newspaper also says Rubio, who was paid $97,000 last season, plans to withdraw his contract lawsuit against DKV Joventut.
Two things: First of all, Joventut has repeatedly said that they would not negotiate with Rubio when a law suit is hanging over their head. If anything, this news furthers the dialog between Rubio and his team. Second, nothing in this report has been said on record. I know that this is how little birdies operate but we really have nothing new to go on until paperwork is filed or until we receive an official statement from Rubio and/or his agent.
Folks, I will repeat what I have said numerous times in the comments section: This is a simple math problem. The buyout needs to be paid back and there are questions over the amount and the duration in which it can be paid out. That's the issue right now. How can the Rubios negotiate a lower price or a more favorable payment plan that would allow Ricky to play in the NBA? That's the issue. This has nothing to do with Ricky coming over in 2 years and everything to do with the Rubios dropping the suit that was standing in the way of them further negotiating with Joventut. It baffles me to no end that this simple issue cannot be grasped by local and national media. Ricky is dealing with his very own domestic situation in Spain. Imagine Joe Mauer leaving the Twins for the Yanks. That's part of what is happening in Barcelona with Rubio.
Relax. It's a fluid situation and there will be more twists and turns. Ultimately, the Wolves give Rubio a solid place to land and things will work out for the best. The Wolves hold the leverage here and they simply have to be resolute and patient.
Sincerely,
Pangloss
UPDATE: Mac of the MIAC makes an excellent point in the comments:
Given that DKV Joventut is deeply in debt, and given that you wanted to reduce your buyout, what do you think your best strategy is? Easy. Tell them that you are willing to play out the remainder of your contract, ensuring they get $0.
That’s really the only play, and I think it will work to at least reduce it to something palitable. Telling DKV Joventut that you are going to play for the TWolves or Real Madrid only strengthens DKV Joventut’s bargaining power.
Yes, yes and more yes. This works on two levels. First of all, Joventut said they wouldn't negotiate with Rubio when he was suing them. Second, it removes Joventut's ability to collect on their debt. If you combine the two, it really makes you wonder what Joventut must have thought about their chances in court if they were willing to ask Rubio to drop the suit. It also makes you wonder why folks like the Bird Whisperer can't seem to see the forest through the trees. Here is a comment we wrote in the same thread:
The speculation is a bit much and there’s no sense in trying to make sense of each step of the dance between Rubio, Joventut and the Wolves because individually, one step could contradict the next. It’s something that will need to be taken as a whole and that requires patience and a preference for seeing the forest instead of the trees. This thing will be judged on two main things: Will Rubio end up in a Wolves uniform and will he be good? That’s it.
Rubio returning to Joventut is the worst possible thing that could happen for a team that sold his buyout to cover for its debt. Tap us on the shoulder when Rubio is in the NBA, either with the Wolves or another team. This thing cannot possibly be judged or absorbed until Rubio is in the NBA.
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Funny how Wolve's fans on this blog were SO sure Rudy wanted out of Portland because of the espn report
Now that it’s your Spaniard, you need things to be confirmed first.
by Sabonis4Ever on Jul 3, 2009 6:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Imagine that...
a sport’s blog with commentary that speculates. I’m sure Blazer blogs are “pure as the driven snow.” “Just the facts ma’am” in Portland. Check out the Blazer fans’ commentary on Turk n Glue.
by Elastico on Jul 3, 2009 7:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair S4E
We had plenty of people wander on here and tell us we should just hand over Rubio to the Knicks for a pu-pu platter because ESPN said he’d never come to a cold, small market town.
The Rubio story was barely based on unnamed sources, more analysis of body language, preconceived opinions on the organisation and presumably a tarot card reading.
by Auswolf on Jul 3, 2009 6:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agree w SnP.
Why did RR sue? He wants out of the contract and to avoid the punitive terms. Why does he want out of the contract? So he can play in the NBA. With whom? Duh.
I see the Wovles and Rubio’s interests as aligned. The roadblock as has been pointed out by others on this board as well as by the Ojays, is Money money money money,, MA Nay… Mean Green.
by Elastico on Jul 3, 2009 7:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Fegan launched the suit...
but obviously his client would have to agree.
by Auswolf on Jul 3, 2009 7:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jul 3, 2009 7:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ricky won´t play anymore in Juventud
Or NBA or no-Juventud. El Periodico news are old news.
by miguelsp on Jul 3, 2009 7:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm just saying...
The hypothesis that this is all about getting his buyout reduced to $3 to $4 mil seems a bit specious. If the buyout was really such an obstacle, he could go to a bank and take out a $6 mil loan on epically favorable repayment terms (he’s guaranteed 14 mil over four years assuming he gets a qualifying offer). If he wanted to, he could be in the Twin Cities by Sunday getting ready for summer league as a very wealthy 18-year-old. Maybe he will eventually go that route, in which case it still makes sense to force the Catalan into a lower number so he can take out a smaller loan. But I have a gut feeling this isn;t about the buy-out.
I’m not saying the Wolves made a bad move by picking him, but I don’t believe this is all about the buyout. I see a trade happening, and it will probably be a good one. Meanwhile, a Flynn/Telfair PG tandem is something to be excited about.
by SFJ on Jul 3, 2009 7:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Even if he borrows the money
which he could do, he still has to pay it back. The issue isn’t that he can’t come up with the money, it’s that at $6+ million, that’s more than his first 2 years salary in the NBA combined.
Maybe you’re right, maybe it isn’t about the money. It’s not impossible that he just doesn’t want to play in Minnesota. Believe me, we’ve been over this. The general consensus here is not to trade him under almost any circumstances. If he says he’s going to stay in Europe, the answer is: Good luck in your European career.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 3, 2009 7:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A couple of things
*Why borrow the full amount of the buyout when you can get it reduced? It’s bargaining.
*He can’t use a contract he may not get as collateral. He is only guaranteed two years, anything after that is team option.
The truth of the matter is we don’t actually know if there is a problem and what the nature of the problem is. Is it possible that once the buyout is negotiated he may not want to play either with Flynn or in Minnesota full stop? Sure. But when/if the buyout is complete, he needs a new contract (and someone to fork out 500k), and that is when it gets interesting.
by Auswolf on Jul 3, 2009 7:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t realize only the first two years are guaranteed. It makes it slightly more of a risk to the banks. But, barring a catastrophic injury or something worse (those instances are what insurance is for) is there any scenario that he won’t get years three and four? This is not Gerald Green we’re talking about. I know the buyout is his entire first two years salary, but can’t he get a bank to allow him to payout over four years, maybe at a slightly higher interest rate because there is the miniscule degree of risk that he won’t get years three and four exercised.
by SFJ on Jul 3, 2009 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, he can
but that isn’t the point. It’s not that he can’t come up with the money, or pay it back over several years, probably. I have no doubt a bank would regard him as a good risk.
It’s still $6.6 million dollars. Plus interest. That’s a massive amount of money to pay merely to be able to take a different job.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 3, 2009 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last sentence.
Well put. In an era of $1,000,000,000,000 deficits, what’s a mere $6,000,000? It’s still a lot of “sweet moola”.
by Elastico on Jul 3, 2009 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there any scenario that he won’t get years three and four?
The scenario in which he stinks…….
I know the buyout is his entire first two years salary, but can’t he get a bank to allow him to payout over four years, maybe at a slightly higher interest rate because there is the miniscule degree of risk that he won’t get years three and four exercised.
If he is signed to 120% of the scale (which is likely) and pays the $6m buyout over two years, he only has about $1.1m left over pre tax. I’m not familiar with US tax law, but I imagine however he pays that buyout with post tax dollars. In that case, he probably doesn’t have enough.
I can’t speak to how a bank might look upon him in terms of ability to pay if he didn’t get his guarantee.
by Auswolf on Jul 3, 2009 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, it’s 6.6m this time next year. As of July 1 it was 8.8m.
by Auswolf on Jul 3, 2009 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stinks (!) or career ending injury
or even runs afoul of the law (though Ricky has yet to really cut the apron strings).
There is plenty of risk, and you can be sure that any financier will charge him accordingly for the use of their money.
by levi_mn on Jul 3, 2009 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Risk is not so miniscule
Basketball is a contact sport and injuries happen all the time. plus he may not be as good as he is touted. Ricky is a very hyped prospect, but he is still a porspect and top 5 picks bust at least as often as they turn into bona fide stars.
I don’t believe he will bust, but its also not my money to lose (nor yours) if he does. and lets not forget the world banking institutions just about collapsed only 1 year ago because they undervalued risk to an epic proportion.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jul 3, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way
Even if he stinks for the first couple of years I don’t see him being cut loose—he’s too young young and too talented. Bassy, of all players, got his options picked up. Rubio would have to be epically bad to get kicked to the curb after his first or second year. Injuries are more of a risk, but there are insurance policies for that.
Also, Rubio doesn’t need to take out a loan for all $6.6 mil. He could take out a loan for $3.3 mil and pay the other $3.3 mil out of pocket. Not that it’s ideal to pay $6.6mil to get out of a $100k contract, and I guess he should see if he can spook Joventut into lowering it, but I don’t buy that he can’t come over this year if Joventut calls his bluff.
If he wants to be a Wolf he will. Maybe he really does want to be traded but Fegan knows that if he publicly demands a trade, Kahn won’t have leverage with other GMs and would be less likely to make a deal from a position of weakness.
by SFJ on Jul 3, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
First of all
You may well be right that he doe get his option taken up if he is less than advertised or even stinks. But in your scenario in which he goes to a bank and borrows money for his buyout, the bank aren’t going assume he’ll be optioned; they won’t take his word for it. Bankers taking people’s word for it is why we are all in the mess we are in now.
No one can honestly say what Rubio wants until the buyout is sorted. But he will want a team to kick in their 500k, and no one is going to do that without a signed contract. And the only team he can sign with is the Wolves, as they are not trading him.
by Auswolf on Jul 3, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Credit..
….is indeed tight.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 3, 2009 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
first
only the first 2 yrs are guaranteed, and that is only just barely enough, slightly less then the buyout. if he gets hurt or does not pan out, he will have borrowed 6 million dollers, and no contract left to pay his remaining loan. these are real concerns for both him and any potential lenders. secondly, in Europe the clubs pay his income tax. In the US he has to pay his own income tax and in the bracket he is in that will be high 30’s low 40%. Meaning his take home pay for the 2 guaranteed years will likely be only half of his buyout amount.
Reduceing the buyout by even just 1 mil dollers could have a dramatic impact on just how favorable a loan he can get to pay the buyout.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jul 3, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can he set himself up as a business?
And can the buyout funds be taken as a cost of doing business, thus becoming tax deductible?
Maybe someone who knows taxes can comment. It would make a huge difference to RR’s decision.
by timmuggs on Jul 4, 2009 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of local writers printing questionable information
another PiPress sports scribe gets taken to the cleaners for quoting “Charles Barkley’s” thoughts on the Rubio situation/
Rooting for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 10:20 a.m. on June 24th, 2009
by PoorDick on Jul 3, 2009 8:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ouch
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by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 3, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If RR
had 6+ million in his checking account, what would he do with it? I’d bet he would pay his club and make sure he had enough left over for a one-way ticket to MSP.
by Elastico on Jul 3, 2009 8:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Charlie Walters’ little birdies are in his head.
by PoohRubio on Jul 3, 2009 8:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Making money
in Minnesota should not be a drawback to playing here. KG “only” made about a quarter of a billion dollars while in Sota. Superstars will get paid whether they play in the Gah-den or in Milwaukee. Also, if the flash in RR’s game translates to the NBA, he will regularly make it onto Sports Center and endorsements will follow.
by Elastico on Jul 3, 2009 8:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think we're waiting for Ricky to ink some endorsements
As analyzed, on Ricky’s NBA earnings he’s, at best , “playing for free” by using the money to pay his buyout. So where can Ricky find a few extra bucks on the side? Right — endorsements.
Negotiating and inking some serious endorsement deals will take some time. And I’m sure that any of those contracts will include language that he must be an NBA player before the endorsement money flows. But I doubt he’ll pay off DKV until he has some high dollar commitments from companies willing to put his face on their products.
So, it’s also going to take time for Ricky to negotiate a lower buyout with DKV. He could just pay the whole thing as it stands. As I see it, playing for DKV is financially his “worst case” scenario.
Wolves can wait.
by levi_mn on Jul 3, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks SnP
So much disinformation and lack of understanding out there with this situation, the record definitely needs to be set straight. TWolves Blog posted about how sick they are of linking all these Rubio articles, when in fact no one really knows what the deal is. I’m getting there too. Conjecture will shoot us all out the doors of perception with a circus cannon.
by museum on Jul 3, 2009 12:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I meant no harm to SNP or anyone here for talking about Rubio
But I’m just fed up with everything. It wasn’t personal towards you guys at all.
by College Wolf on Jul 3, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course you didn't mean harm
I’m sure everyone gets it, and can relate on some level. That Bethlehem Shoals post on Sporting News you linked…..made me stabby. Getting really sick of it.
by museum on Jul 3, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't actually do our daily links myself.
But yeah, I hear what you are talking about. And yes, I am beyond sick of all this nonsense myself.
by College Wolf on Jul 3, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get what you're saying
The speculation is a bit much and there’s no sense in trying to make sense of each step of the dance between Rubio, Joventut and the Wolves because individually, one step could contradict the next. It’s something that will need to be taken as a whole and that requires patience and a preference for seeing the forest instead of the trees. This thing will be judged on two main things: Will Rubio end up in a Wolves uniform and will he be good? That’s it.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 3, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey
I’ve had issues lately with my stupid hotmail account, and people not getting emails from me. Did you get my response to you?
by College Wolf on Jul 3, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
got it
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 3, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
cant de boi juss sign a shoe contract/otha endorsements mayn?
i mean he does whut like 3 or 4 commercials den gets a contract wit nike dat hass ta be close enough righ?
MAYN HOL UP!
by MAYNHOLUP on Jul 3, 2009 2:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Pawn
Given that DKV Joventut is deeply in debt, and given that you wanted to reduce your buyout, what do you think your best strategy is? Easy. Tell them that you are willing to play out the remainder of your contract, ensuring they get $0.
That’s really the only play, and I think it will work to at least reduce it to something palitable. Telling DKV Joventut that you are going to play for the TWolves or Real Madrid only strengthens DKV Joventut’s bargaining power.
Charlie Walters is being pushed around like a pawn. The man cannot think for himself.
by Mac of the MIAC on Jul 3, 2009 3:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This has happen to some extent by Rubio saying he will come back.
It’s a subtle nudge to Joventut to get it sorted.
by Auswolf on Jul 3, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well put
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
by Stop-n-Pop on Jul 3, 2009 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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