3-Way Holiday Trade!
by McCleak on Jul 4, 2009 4:01 PM CDT
15 comments
I figured while we're all waiting for some news or another to break on Rubio, we might as well engage in our favorite pastime, speculation about possible trades. Last week, Chad Ford mentioned in a chat that the Kings are also big fans of Johnny Flynn. Based on that, here a Minnesota/Sacramento/Utah trade I came up with:
Sacramento
Sends Kenny Thomas to Utah
Sends Kevin Martin to Minnesota
Receives the rights to Johnny Flynn from Minnesota
Receives Andrei Kirilenko from Utah
Utah
Sends Andrei Kirilenko to Sacramento
Sends the New York Knicks' 2010 first round pick to Minnesota
Receives Kenny Thomas from Utah
Receives Brian Cardinal from Minnesota
Receives Craig Smith from Minnesota
Minnesota
Sends the rights to Johnny Flynn to Sacramento
Sends Craig Smith to Utah
Sends Brian Cardinal to Utah
Receives Kevin Martin from Sacramento
Receives the New York Knicks' 2010 first round pick from Utah
Why Sacramento does this:
They get better at the 3 and the 1, while reducing the years that have an 8 digit contract on the books (Kirilenko's contract ends after 2010-2011, Martin's ends after 2012-2013). In terms of productions, Martin is +5.5 on PER relative to his team at SG (5.0 versus -0.5), while Kirilenko would be +7.7 at SF for the Kings. It also makes Nocioni redundant, so they can trade his contract either space of functional shooting guard later on.
Why Utah does this:
It clears their cap by $16,451,250 for the next season, and allows them a reasonable chance to keep Millsap. It also means that if/when they lose Boozer, they have a good young replacement in Smith. The real value is that even if they extend Millsap and Smith, they'd still have a lot of money to go after free agents in 2010 (probably around $15-20 million worth of cap space).
Why Minnesota does this:
They get Kevin Martin, meaning that they have an above average player at the 2, 4, and 5. They fix their roster imbalance, and should make a definite step forward in terms of of overall team skill. It gives the team another first round pick next year, almost certainly in the top 10. It gives the team an identity as an offensive force, and means the Wolves should have enough free space to pay a bit more than the midlevel in 2010 for a free agent, if needed. It also gives everyone who is being viewed through their potential a chance to prove themselves. Love, and Telfair get their minutes, as does Ellington while playing as Martin's backup. Jefferson and Brewer get a year to prove they're back and ready to contribute to the team. Here's how the team would look for the next season:
1 - Rubio/Telfair/Brown
2 - Martin/Ellington
3 - Gomes/Brewer
4 - Love/Songalia/Pecherov
5 - Jefferson/Thomas/Madsen
When combined with the 1-4 draft picks next year, the Wolves could look very good in a few years.
Now, some questions:
Is Martin worth it? Do you think he is overpaid? Do you think the Wolves could get better value for their expiring contracts?
Would you do this if Rubio was staying in Europe for a year? Permanently?
How much better do you think this makes the Wolves? 30 win team? 40?
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Way too good for Minny
we get Kevin Martin and an unprotected pick from a team that’s going to be lousy for essentially Jonny Flynn? Take out the NY pick, and it’s still probably too good for Minny, but at least it becomes a conversation.
I like K-Mart, and his contract is actually pretty good. He scores the two ways you have to the in the NBA—3s and free throws. I’d love to get him, but I don’t know if it’s possible.
I think Utah might do it (without the pick) to get out of Kirilenko. It does save them a bunch of money and gives them expirings to play with. I don’t think Sacramento does it at all—they aren’t getting enough value for Martin.
I’d do it as MN 100 times out of 100, even without the NY pick. I think (and I’d want to know more about his health), that Martin is about the best player you could expect to get with expiring contracts, in terms of his skill, age, and contract status. I’d do it regardless of Rubio this year, frankly—getting a piece like Martin would be a bonus. Given where we are, I’d happily roll with a core of Jefferson, Martin, Love, and Rubio. That’s good. Add an athletic SF who can defend (and preferably hit some 3s) and an athletic, running center, and that team can play (if Rubio is as good as we think he is).
by Eric in Madison on Jul 4, 2009 4:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well
according to Chad Ford (one of the leaders in the “I don’t know what’s happening with Rubio but I’ll pretend I do” relay), the Jazz have been trying to move Kirilenko, but can’t get anyone to bite, because everyone wants more. Being that far under the cap would certainly have it’s advantages, unless they really think they can compete this year. How about this: the Wolves also send Utah the Charlotte pick? And even without either of those picks, they would be a young team that’s very ready to make a big push.
As for Sacramento, I definitely think they would consider trading a top starter for another and a solid prospect (again, according to CF, very probably the guy they liked most after Evans).
Anyway, this is the summer. What else do we have to do besides speculate on trades that won’t happen?
by McCleak on Jul 4, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, I'm all for making up trades
It’s great fun. I think your’s is more realistic with two changes: the Jazz keep the Knicks pick and we send Sacramento the Charlotte pick. (Preferably the Utah pick, but I’d do it either way).
by Eric in Madison on Jul 4, 2009 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah,
we do that trade every day and twice on Sunday.
by Auswolf on Jul 4, 2009 5:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
utah doesn’t need cap room for next season. they already have $34 million worth of expiring contracts. they need to cut salary this year – meaning they need non-guaranteed deals like Jerry Stackhouse’s or expiring players willing to be bought out like Ben Wallace.
this deal provides neither.
by homer simpson on Jul 4, 2009 5:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Both Kenny Thomas and Brian Cardinal
could be traded straight up for Stackhouse’s deal. As for Utah, they need to wait three months to make a move at Wallace’s deal, since he can only be traded in a 1 for 1 deal for three months, and Utah doesn’t have anyone that fits that profile right now. They could however, package Matt Harpring with either Thomas or Cardinal (or both of them together) for Wallace.
A deal like this doesn’t guarantee that they could get a contract like that, but it puts them a bit closer than they are right now.
by McCleak on Jul 4, 2009 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aint gong to happen....
Spain is reporting that Rubio is staying in Spain for the next 2 years and has pulled his court case attempting to lower his buyout.
So there is no way Minnesota can trade Flynn and have practically no PG
So keep dreaming on this scenario
by Fredman on Jul 4, 2009 8:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Most of the regulars on this site
have agreed that nobody really knows if/when Rubio is going to play for the Wolves, but that “2-year” report and the pulling of the court case are all part of the effort to get Rubio’s current team to lower the buyout amount as quickly as possible—and that the effort to get him on the Wolves as soon as this season aren’t finished by a long shot.
And even if Rubio does stay there for another year or two, Flynn could still be traded (we suffered through an entire season of Bassy and Kevin Ollie at point guard, so since Bassy’s on the roster still, it wouldn’t be like we weren’t used to it for another season).
So—assuming Minnesota is willing to trade Flynn, as a Kings fan, are you interested?
Rooting for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 10:20 a.m. on June 24th, 2009
by PoorDick on Jul 4, 2009 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank god that Wolves fans realize that Kings fans wanna sneer over this
I’m not really sure why Kings fans wanna sneer and say this is what happens……
The Kings had their opportunity to take Rubio. He would have come over, and he would most likely be taking a similar tact right now if he were taken by the Kings. But, it wouldn’t be that big of a deal. Negotiating a player out of a contract oversea’s is a complicated process. It was complicated for the Kings with regards to Hedo Turkoglu and Peja Stojakovic (who did in fact go back to Greece for 2 years after being drafted).
Why should the Wolves panic? The worst that can happen with Rubio is him going back for 2 seasons in the ACB. I’ve heard of worse leagues for 19-20 year olds to play basketball in.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jul 5, 2009 3:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank god that Wolves fans realize that Kings fans wanna sneer over this
I’m not really sure why Kings fans wanna sneer and say this is what happens……
The Kings had their opportunity to take Rubio. He would have come over, and he would most likely be taking a similar tact right now if he were taken by the Kings. But, it wouldn’t be that big of a deal. Negotiating a player out of a contract oversea’s is a complicated process. It was complicated for the Kings with regards to Hedo Turkoglu and Peja Stojakovic (who did in fact go back to Greece for 2 years after being drafted).
Why should the Wolves panic? The worst that can happen with Rubio is him going back for 2 seasons in the ACB. I’ve heard of worse leagues for 19-20 year olds to play basketball in.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jul 5, 2009 3:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kevin Martin?
eesh no thanks, I prefer hard nosed players, not whiney cry-babies.
by bheidge on Jul 4, 2009 8:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Kevin doesn't whine or cry often
He does get hurt too often, but that doesn’t make him a whiner or a cry baby.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jul 5, 2009 3:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No thanks McCleak
Although I can totally see why Minnesota would do this.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jul 5, 2009 3:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Let's keep Flynn at least a year
I want to keep Flynn at least a year to see what he can do. It is imperative the Wolves end up with at least one top 15 PG from this PG heavy draft. The hardest spot to fill on a team (other than the big centers who are almost a thing of the past) is PG.
The Wolves spent most of the Garnett era trying to find a long term solution at PG, let’s not make the same mistake for the next decade. They have two candidates, let them battle it out on the court rather than in the front office. If the Wolves trade Flynn and Rubio is a bust the team will be ruined for another decade and probably sold and moved.
If they keep the assets they currently have (plus cap space), they will easily find a premiere SG either at the trade deadline in 2010 or next off season.
One step at a time, believe in the vision/plan!
by Rumblebee on Jul 5, 2009 7:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It's a well-Thought out trade
I don’t see Sac-Town trading Kevin Martin although you make good points for them. I’m not sure that the Wolves do it since it seems Kahn’s rebuilding plan is focused on about 4 years down the line. Kevin Martin improves them enough to not get a high quality wing to pair with Love, Jefferson, Rubio, and Flynn. So I’m not sure the Wolves do it. Homer rightly points out the trouble for Utah although I’m still not sure they don’t do it.
by Jose Cordoba on Jul 5, 2009 9:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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