True Hoop interviews David Kahn
Henry Abbott has a short give-and-take over at Four Letter. It's not the best interview as it starts off with one of the ridiculous narratives we talked about in our Rubio on Record post. Abbot asks Kahn a bunch of questions with things like "other GMs tell me" and various hypotheticals. Kahn is short and somewhat dismissive in his replies.
Let me predict how an interview like this will play out amongst the chattering class: It will be cited as an example of Kahn's arrogance; a perfect showing of how he thinks he is smarter than anyone else. I say this is nonsense. Kahn responded appropriately to some pretty ridiculous questions. Leading a question with something along the lines of "your competition tells me you screwed up" is a first-class ticket to short answers.
When you read national stories about the Rubio situation (hell, even some local ones have slipped into ready-made narratives), please keep in mind that they are often written from a perspective that is attempting to place the events into a pre-manufactured story line. Go back and read just the questions with that in mind. What did they say? A: No one could fathom Rubio and Flynn playing together. People think that Flynn is the reason why Rubio isn't over here yet. They think the buyout is a red herring and that Rubio doesn't want to play with the Wolves.
Now ask yourself this: What did you learn about the situation? What will this interview's "talker" be going forward? Will it be about substance or about the interview itself?
We are big fans of TrueHoop but this sort of interview is simply not good. At all.
UPDATE: Abbott is spelled with two ts and TrueHoop is one word. Changes have been made in the post.
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"Attempting to place the events . . .
. . . into a pre-manufactured story line" sounds almost like real work. No, what these hacks do is google “Ricky Rubio,” print out two or three stories that come from places that they might of heard of, and then formulate questions that relate directly to the information contained in the aforementioned stories.
I know a little about Henry. He seems to be one of the most decent people you’ll ever meet, and I’m a big fan of TrueHoop. That said, he probably got the interview at the last minute, and took the easy way out.
Rooting for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 10:20 a.m. on June 24th, 2009
You're right about the reaction part
Reading the comments so far on the True Hoop piece is quite depressing. For instance:
“LOL! I love that he think he is smarter than the public. Like we don’t already realize that he drafted Rubio to trade him. It back fired because he didn’t have a deal in place before he did it. He is a novice GM and is gonna cost the Minny fans a lot of time in their rebuilding plan. He single handedly set the franchise back 2-3yrs because he was trying to be Kevin Pritchard. Sorry buddy. Only room for one.
And how can he be so cool about not having a coach? Who does he think is out there that would want to coach a team KNOWING the franchise is in the crapper for at least the next 3 seasons? He keeps coming after Portland guys because he thinks he can nab some of the Blazers mojo. Not gonna happen.
Sorry Minny fans. I really feel for you. This guy is in over his head."
Shocking that the comment
comes from a Blazers fan. Why are they so threatened by the Timberwolves?
Rooting for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 10:20 a.m. on June 24th, 2009
Cuz they are supposed to be the young, up and coming contender
Can’t have Minnesota (or Okl City, I would think) stealing that title. At least that’s my theory.
I don't see why
It should be flattering to your organization that another team would like to tap into that talent.
And not wanting these guys to get opportunities to be head coaches or GMs on their own seems a bit selfish of you.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 7, 2009 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions
KP said last season that he expects at least one of his proteges to move on to be a GM
Nate said the same thing about his assistant coaches…at least one will be a head coach. It will most likely me Monty.
Just not until after we win a championship together :)
If our past experience is any indication,
the Blazers will get the most help from the past employee after he starts working for the Wolves.
Rooting for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 10:20 a.m. on June 24th, 2009
by PoorDick on Jul 7, 2009 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Of course...
He’s obviously the frontrunner, even though Kahn has been on the road for a week and will probably be there for at least one or two more. He’s just the guy whose name has been leaked to this point.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jul 7, 2009 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Haste makes waste
I agree with PoorDick, this interview was rushed. It was filled with questions based on conjecture and conventional suppositions.
Conventional “wisdom” was that the Wolves should have never picked two PGs with their 4th and 5th pick. Conventional “wisdom” says that the 5th pick should have been a 2 guard. Conventional “wisdom” says you cannot play two PGs at the same time. But you don’t build a winning franchise based on what other teams (competitors) think you should do.
It is remarkable how the fans of other teams have reacted to our draft. At first, every team wanted to draft Rubio. Then, they were upset that somehow Rubio fell to the Wolves. Then, they were pushing their home team to pull a trade with the Wolves to get Rubio on their team (hey, you can’t have two PG picks anyway). Now, these fans are trying to dissaude Wolve fans from supporting the Rubio pick.
I have heard/read
an astounding amount of stories of “OMG the Wolves picked FOUR POINT GUARDS in teh draft??!!!!” not following up that two of the picks were traded immediately.
Rooting for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 10:20 a.m. on June 24th, 2009
Interesting..
is what I found Kahn’s comments that Abbott was that presuming Rubio hadn’t been to visit Minnesota. Say does anyone know if Ricky has a legit Facebook page? There is one claiming to be his official page but it seems fake. Claims he was in Minny on the 29th of June
That was a serious PWN.
“Just because you haven’t done the homework doesn’t make it so.”
Bad job by Henry Abbott...
Good job by David Kahn. I felt in his interviews with Barreiro he was pretty short with his answers from time to time, too. That never bothered me one bit. I don’t think that’s being arrogant, I read it as being the kind of guy who gives the exact answer he wants to give. No more, no less.
Look at how Barrerio...
….has responded. His sidekick doesn’t waste a chance to crack a joke about how Kahn thinks he’s smarter than them and they are currently holding a nickname competition for Kahn to replace McHale and “The Ostrich”. Kahn has been on the job for 2 months and they’re doing everything they can to fit him into the role that took McHale years and years to grow into.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
Barreiro's schtick
is limited to negativity and name-calling. Expected more from Abbott, he may have been playing to his friends at espn with how he wrote it up.
After listening to Twin Cities commercial radio
for twenty years, I never thought that the KQ Morning Show would be the standard for thoughtful analysis and nuance.
Rooting for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 10:20 a.m. on June 24th, 2009
To play devil's advocate for a moment...
I’d say it’s pretty easy to get negative about the front offices of the professional sports teams in this town. From the ridiculousness of the McHale era to the penny-pinching of the Twins (and new GM Bill Smith making what may have been an even worse trade than Roy/Foye in his sport), to the Vikings’ laughable search for a QB, it seems we’re incapable in this state of putting together anything close to a championship team.
I know I fall victim to being a negative fan quite often. But, it’s hard not to give in to frustration.
That said, that’s not exactly what Barreiro’s doing.
Bill Smith..
…is in flames right now. Baseball was my first love and this is hard to see even peripherally since I stopped watching baseball. They got the stadium and they’re not going to change.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
I think the problem is...
So long as the fans are okay with “good enough”, the front offices will be, too. And Twins fans always seem to be okay with “good enough”.
Wolves fans were, too, until suddenly the team couldn’t even reach “good enough” status.
The problem is, if a team doesn’t make enough money or get their way, they’ll just up and move out of town. This is why I sometimes wonder if I am not better off only paying attention to college sports. At least you know the U of M will always be where it is, regardless of attendance or new staduims.
But, that’s another issue entirely and I probably shouldn’t hijack this post with my gripes about the state of professional sports in general.
I am part of the problem
But, damn, do I ever bask in the sweet, sweet glow of the 1987 and 1991 Twins championships. What luck! Now living in Chicago and seeing cubs fans up close, I appreciate those World Series titles even more. So I totally forgive the Twins because they gave me 87 and 91. And then the rest of the 90s just sucked so you appreciate the past decade of entertaining baseball and good product.
But, yes, Bill Smith has a thus far awful track record and the current Vikings leadership instills no confidence.
You have to have the chops to
analyze and talk about the sports you are covering to make those cases. The guys on KFAN particularly Barreiro typically do not. There is a lot of what SNP has referred to as the “ready-made storyline” bit, and not much in the way of insightful or innovative takes and questioning. Anyone can b*tch or call names.
Maybe I'm arrogant as well...
But I have loved every single David Kahn interview I have ever heard. Having a dry sense of humor doesn’t make you arrogant. I think DK has been spot on in his interviews, and has shown a true mastery of how to handle the media.
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
Agreed
I get a little of the arrogance and “I’m smarter than you” from him, but that is to be expected from someone running a large organization. He wouldn’t get there if he wasn’t arrogant in some regards. And he wouldn’t get there and stay very long if he wasn’t one of the smartest in the room.
Every interview has been well done. The interview with Dan Patrick was entertaining. I really like this Mr. Kahn.
Veritas Vos Liberabit
by CaptainFatpants on Jul 8, 2009 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions
I can't get enough of this guy.
I’m not gonna lie, he’s arguably the ugliest man-crush I’ve ever had. But his savvy, the cool, measured savvy that he exhibits in situations where people are just WAITING to pounce on a soundbite or misstep seems to be top notch. I frankly do not care about any arrogance at this point, because all of it is directed outside the organization. Towards the Rubios (at least from what we little exists in the public record) there has been nothing but cooperative deference, same towards all of the draft choices. When Rubio steps onto a court in a Wolves uniform and his father leaks that much of the posturing was orchestrated by Fegan and Kahn and delivered on a platter to their now-much-richer kid, everyone will sit back, relax, and remember this as an extraordinary first couple of months for someone willing to play the fool in the interest of strengthening his team. I know he knows more than I do, and his willingness to endure constant retread criticism from major media outlets shows a thoughtful maturity that has thus far not characterized the Wolves organization. Steady on, David Kahn!!
How can we be so sure
that the Canis Hoopus narrative—that everything the Rubio camp and the Wolves say—is an attempt to scare Joventut into lowering the buyout so he can come over and begin his NBA career this year.
What is the downside for Rubio to agree to a transfer to Real Madrid or another elite Euro club with the cash to pay the entire buyout and leave Ricky with 4 or 5M in his own pocket over the next two years?
That actually seems like a more plausible scenario for all parties. Joventut gets all of its cash, Rubio won’t be leaving money on the table and he gets to work on his shooting and building his body. The Wolves, meanwhile, get a better player in two years.
Would such an elite team be willing...
… to pay a ransom that high and not have a buyout clause in the new contract? This is an honest question.
From what I’ve heard, that’s not very likely. I’m not an expert, but the general opinion I’ve gotten from guys who follow the Euroleague is that most teams don’t have the kind of money necessary to pay hi buyout and give him a raise.
Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.
Well, there's no question that the Canis Hoopus narrative, as you call it
could be wrong. He could be absolutely opposed to playing in MN or playing with Flynn.
The thing about signing with a big Euro club is that I think it would have to be for at least 3 years in order to make it worth their while to pay the buyout for Rubio. That’s not an impossible scenario, certainly. The sense has been that Rubio doesn’t want to wait that long to get to the NBA, and it could potentially cost him salary down the road, but it’s certainly possible, The Real people have been saying publicly they aren’t interested, but who knows?
And it wouldn’t be good. I would remind you that even if he does that, the Wolves will still hold his rights. IF he signs with a Euro team under those circumstances, obviously his trade value plummets. It would be really disappointing if that happened.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 7, 2009 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
That's fair
I’d answer with a few things:
1- The story we’re pitching isn’t exactly well known.
2- We don’t bolster it with “sources tell us” or anything like that; it’s all “I believe”
3- Should we ever score an interview with Kahn it won’t resort to boogeyman questions.
4- We really haven’t claimed anything other than this will require patience on the Wolves’ part to see it through.
In the specific case of Real Madrid, that’s a decision the Rubio family will have to make if the offer is on the table and the Wolves will have to react. They have to react to whatever the family decides to do at this problem with regard to making a decision that makes financial sense. That’s the issue. The issue for the Wolves is this: will he come to them and will he be good? That’s it. In order to get there, Rubio needs to make the first step with the buyout.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
What is the downside?
No one is going to pay the full buyout in the Euro League without a significant time commitment from RR of at least 3 or 4 years. This means (if he’s truly a star):
- He’ll lose over $100 mil in lost salary for never coming to the NBA, or
- Losing about $50 mil for delaying his 2nd NBA contract by 2 years
Either of those work for you?
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
From the very first question, this is ridiculously sloppy work
That first question — er, “prompt” would be a fairer description, because it’s not even a question per se:
One of the things that I found surprising was that the day before the draft, Ricky Rubio told us that he was coming to the NBA no matter what happened with his buyout. The first person I heard suggesting that his buyout could be a big obstacle was you, on TV on draft night.
Now, tell me: Did everyone on boards like this, leaving alone NBA front offices, not understand that Ricky Rubio’s buyout situation was an obstacle? If I am not mistaken, said situation partly caused his slipping in the draft somewhat — as even the ESPN talking heads knew on draft night. Not-very-well-informed posters on this board and others could have told our interviewer about that back in February or March, couldn’t they?
I think that's at least a little bit of revisionist history
Which is why I think MN and/or Flynn really are issues for him. Whether they are overcomable or not, I don’t know.
The truth is he was expressing nothing but excitment about the NBA prior to the draft. “I’ll play for free the first year if I have to…” That pretty much immediately changed after he got picked. Whether that’s because it was 5th and not 2nd, or whether it was because it was MN, or whether it’s because of Flynn, or some combination, I don’t know. Or maybe it IS all negotiating with Joventut.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 7, 2009 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Eric
From what I read on the Sacramento boards discussing the buyout, my impression was that if he was picked at 2 or 3, he would make money during the first two years, if picked at 4 he would break even, and 5 or lower he would have to pay to play.
Excitement to play in the NBA and even stating he would play for free is one thing, but I never heard him say he would Pay to Play in the NBA, which with the current buyout would be his situation.
And even if he had been picked 2 or 3
he might STILL have run with the “Whoa, whoa, whoa” routine in an effort to get the buyout reduced, In hindsight, it makes perfect sense to hold Club VerdiNegro’s feet to the fire to see how far down they’ll go, rather than just whipping out the checkbook and asking, “To whom should I make this out?”
Rooting for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 10:20 a.m. on June 24th, 2009
Sure, this is possible
the point I was making, though, was let’s not pretend that there was a lot of talk before the draft from anyone connected to Rubio that he may not play this year. It’s possible that this is exactly what you say—an attempt to pressure the Green.
Things changed immediately after he got taken, in terms of the tone we were getting. There might be any number of reasons for that, and hopefully all it is is negotiating. But let’s not kid ourselves that there couldn’t be other factors.
I don’t want to be the turd in the punchbowl, but to assume that everything is hunky dory between Rubio and the Wolves is…dubious to me.
There are competing explanations for the behavior we’ve seen. It’s not clear that one is more likely than another. On one thread, someone invoked Occam’s razor….then proceeded to come up with what struck me as a rather convoluted explanation.
Isn’t the simplest explanation based on what we know that he doesn’t want to play for the Wolves?
by Eric in Madison on Jul 7, 2009 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Please
Of course Rubio would say all the right things before the draft trying to increase his draft stock and value by stating he’ll be over to the NBA even if he has to play for free. It’s too his advantage to create value for teams that may pick him.
The fact his story changed after the draft is not telling.
But..
….that’s what anyone would say in that position. You have to say good things like that.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
Well, as I said
It COULD all be negotiating, as we have been speculating for a week. I have no way of knowing.
Look, I spend a lot of time here, you all know I care about the Wolves, and I don’t want to be a jerk about this. I want to hold onto Rubio at almost any cost. But I think we have to consider the worst case as well. This COULD get ugly.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 7, 2009 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed...
….but first the buyout has to come to pass. Nothing else can unfold unless that happens and this should have been the #1 part of this story from the get-go. Cut through the agent BS and the quotes. What is the bottom line for the Rubios? Are the Wolves in a position to help or hurt this with an ability to wait? Stuff like that.
Another thing that makes zero sense to me is that there are plenty of other ways in which someone can question the Flynn pick. Kahn’s claim about Flynn’s defensive potential would be where I start. We’ll have a very short Q&A with Kevin Pelton about this tomorrow with that question.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
Agreed
One factor I have not seen discussed: If Rubio comes to the US this year there is a negative currency effect sending money back to Europe for the buyout. A Euro team could pay part of the buyout in Euros and have Rubio for a year or two at a lower cost than converting dollars to Euros. He needs to make about 20% more in the US than in Europe to account for exchange rates.
Another issue is if Rubio pays the full buyout now he gets screwed if he ends up seriously injured in the next couple of years, or is just not that good. It really makes no sense for him to pay the full amount up front when he assumes all of the downside of injury or poor play.
I see one of two outcomes, either Rubio plays for a different Euro team for one or two years, or he gets the buyout adjusted to a percentage of his NBA over ten years.
That "over ten years" part is interesting
And I still haven’t seen a real news source assess whether that’s possible, whether Rubio’s current team would accept it, and so on.
It’s such an obvious point. If Joventut will take it over five years, ta da, Rubio can play out his rookie contract and still make considerably more than if he’d stayed in Spain. The End. You’d think reporters would be all over these details, but instead they’re regurgitating New York rumors of no substance.
Needs to be win-win
I haven’t seen 10 years discussed anywhere, it just seems logical. I am a big believer in contentious negotiations needing to be win-win to succeed.
As currently structured, Rubio’s buy is WIN Joventut, LOSE Rubio because he assumes all risk. If he plays two more years for Joventut it ends up being LOSE-LOSE.
That leaves two win-win options.
One – Rubio plays a year for a team that can decrease his buyout by 30-50%. Rubio wins by guaranteeing he will come out ahead on his first NBA, Joventut wins by getting money this year with the remaining 50-70% being negotiated.
Two – Rubio agrees to pay 10% of his NBA money to Joventut over the next four years, then 5% on the next contract over six years. If he only plays two years in the NBA due to injury, both sides get something. If it spreads over 10 years, Joventut gets all their money, but Rubio only pays if he is in the NBA long term.
Fegan was Yi's agent, and
I don’t have a link on this but could swear they publicly stated they didn’t want to go to Milwuakee. That hasn’t happened here.
If Rubio really wanted out of MN, and that’s it: why not have him and/or his agent say specifically to the press he doesn’t want to come here? What quicker way to put pressure on the Wolves to make a move. They did this with the Bucks (history) without resorting to unnamed sources.
Valid argument
Dan Fegan, of course, might have learned something from his brinksmanship with Yi.
I prefer your interpretation, of course.
Plus
we don’t know that he doesn’t want to play for the Wolves. that is pure suposition, nad has no basis on anything that has been stated by Rubio. I do remember reading some where, can’t find the source now, that Ricky Rubio said he woudl be fine playing for the Wolves before the draft.
The most plausible solution is that all that was said prior to the draft was said to increase his draft position to go 2-3. All that has been done after the draft has been done to reduce his redicules buyout.
remember he is still suing Joventut over the buyout amount and has tendered an amount that he would be willing to pay ($3 million sounds an awful lot like playing for free based o the rookie scale for the nr. 5 pick to me). this is evidence that he wants to play in the NBA first the fact that it is in MN is not impacting this.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jul 8, 2009 7:26 AM CDT up reply actions
And, gee, people on those boards knew it was a problem
….Just like us and every other fairly attentive basketball fan.
Call it what it is...
innuendo and hear say. There have been very few English speaking interviews with Rubio himself and the “he doesn’t want to play in Minnesota” part has never been shown to be legit. Really, the only storyline that has been consistent is that Rubio has a buyout, he has to figure out how to pay it and the Wolves are willing to wait. Everything else is linked to “people close” or “someone involved” or “other GM’s”.
The kid is 18. He said “I’ll play for free”, but did he really understand what that meant or the actual contract numbers for each draft position? He would have to play “for free” for the first 2 years of his contract at the current buyout number.
by Minneapleseed on Jul 7, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I dunno
It seems to me that when asked if he was excited to play in MN, he answered “I’m excited to be in the NBA.”
It could be negotiating. It could be a language thing. It could also be he was saying he’s NOT excited to play in MN.
I’ve become the jerk of this thread, but I sometimes think we become a little too pollyanna. This is not a great situation.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 7, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know if it's good or bad
It is what it is and the Wolves aren’t in control. The only thing they really control is that if he wants to play in the NBA the road goes through them. That’s about as good as they could ask for at the 5th pick with this kid….if he’s all he’s cracked up to be (and I’m not sure he is).
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
to clarify:
they aren’t in control of the next move…i.e. the buyout. it’s out of their hands at this point and they can wait if need be. that’s all we know and it could go any number of ways. the bottom line with the current decision is that it’s a math problem for the rubios. that’s it.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
I generally agree with this
The Wolves got the guy I absolutely thought was the best guy with the 5th pick. Tremendous. They aren’t in control of the buyout or what happens with that.
However, it COULD be more than a math problem. If MN is a real problem for them, it becomes more than a math problem. If Flynn is a real problem for them, it becomes more than a math problem.
We don’t know if either of those things are true.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 7, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Nope...
….we do not. What we do know is that other general managers like to say they are. That’s my big beef with the situation. Of course they do. Meanwhile, we don’t really know much at all about the entire situation and the only things we seem to be able to talk about is either speculation about rumors or media coverage….both of which serve the same purpose: elongating the news cycle while giving people things to talk about. I should write up a Rubio Free Radio piece that says we’re a Rubio free zone until the buyout decision.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
Now, I think the downside of
declaring a “Rubio Free Zone” is way bigger than the upside :)
Frankly, I think we should send ME to Badalona to get this straightened out.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 7, 2009 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Make sure you post that notice
in both English and Spanish.
That’s another good point about the sources for these stories. OF COURSE other GMs are going to bring up the subject of the buyout, and what a dumb move it was by Kahn. They’re already asking questions in Memphis, Sacto, and even OKC as to why they didn’t jump on Rubio, and in NYC as to why the Knicks haven’t traded for him yet. “Well, I like the guy,” the GMs say. “But I don’t want to wait three years for him to come over. And that buyout—whoo! Kahn’s an idiot, but don’t say I said it.”
To me, the worst case scenario here is that Rubio doesn’t want to play in MSP. Fine. Even if they accomodate him (and I don’t think they should), they’ll still be able to get something in a trade. Or, if Rubio is the most spiteful human on earth, and sits out a year to cause the Wolves to lose his rights, I’m still okay with taking him at 5 this year (although my preference is that if this happens, trade the entire team to get the first overall pick when he re-enters).
Rooting for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 10:20 a.m. on June 24th, 2009
I'm not sure...
…how he can sit out. Wouldn’t he still have an obligation to Joventut? How does that kill the buyout? To me, that’s insane and any claim made with it would first have to explain the logistics. Does sitting out kill the buyout number? If it doesn’t, then claiming that Rubio might sit out is one of the stupider things a person can say about the situation.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
I highly doubt...
It would. He’s still under contract with that team. That means he has to pay it or play for them, and how would he pay it without another contract somewhere else?
by pagingstanleyroberts on Jul 7, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions
This is correct as I understand it
He’s under contract to Joventut. The way to get out of that contract is to pay the buyout, whether he intends to play in the NBA, play for another Euro club, or play on the playground.
Joventut wants it’s money, or it wants Rubio to play. It has a contract guaranteeing one of those things. He would have to play out the contract, then sit out, in order to get another shot at the draft.
I think sitting out at any point is an extremely unlikely scenario, Extremely.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 7, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, it seems that
in theory, he could finish his gig with Joventut, and then sit a year out. Then he is free to re-enter the draft.
I’m not saying this is a good idea for anybody, or even remotely likely. It just appears to be possible.
Rooting for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 10:20 a.m. on June 24th, 2009
If he did that
what are the odds he falls to the second round? he has 2 years left on this contract, then he has to sit one full year after that with out getting paid by any one. one of his biggest assets is his age relitive to his skills, 4 yrs from now that wont be the case any more. plus he will have the reputation of being a cancer. now way he gets drafted top 5 4 years from now. that would be an awful lot of money left on the table.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jul 8, 2009 7:49 AM CDT up reply actions
It's a very good point
It sure doesn’t seem like he is the type of person to take that chance.
Rooting for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 10:20 a.m. on June 24th, 2009
More like four years
his rookie contract over 2 years will only gaurentee 6 mil before taxes. as of right now his buyout is over 8 mil! he has to pay for his buy out in after tax dollers, and in the us being in the highest tax bracket he is looking at around 40% tax’s he would have to play for free for at least 4 years if not longer to pay his buyout as it stands now. That is why his team is working hard to get the buyout reduced. that buyout is just plain punitive.
I don’t care how much you love your job, no one will work for free for 4 or more years. remember he will have to play for his living expenses, food, lodging, local transportation, clothing etc. The NBA has a dress code in “to and from games” and wearing a 75$ coat, 25$, 20$ tie, 30$slacks, 30$ dress shoes from target would surely get him fined for violating the dress code.
As much as you or I might be willig to play Pro Sports for free, the reality is that is not an option.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jul 8, 2009 7:41 AM CDT up reply actions
In case you missed it...
Good story on CNNSI about patience. Lots of teams have had to wait for their picks to fulfill other responsibilities:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/steve_aschburner/07/02/rubio.wait/index.html
David Robinson is a great example
I love the picture of Robinson in uniform, there.
Not only did the Spurs not lose value by having Robinson serve out his Navy time, they collected some great draft picks as a result. A handful of us have mentioned that example.
Also put off
by the way things were phrased in the first few questions. He was self-promoting and kind of coming after Kahn. I get short if people come after me too.
Could be lawyer training...
Lawyers always tell clients that are going to be questioned in court that they should say the minimal amount possible. Don’t add anything, it could prompt more questions and get you in trouble.
OK, let’s look at the situation here:
- Our first goal is to get Rubio to the Wolves.
- Our secondary goal is to get Rubio to the NBA — if he really does not want to play here, then we benefit if he gets to the NBA soon, because his trade value is bigger.
- Stern’s primary goal is to get Rubio to the NBA, any team, because it increases viewership to have an international matinee-idol star, and it helps Stern with international expansion, more licensing deals and product sales.
- The primary obstacle to bringing Ricky to the NBA is not money, it is the rules put in place by the NBA on how to handle buyouts. The amount of money, while not trivial, is doable by the Wolves, and easily doable by the Knicks, Nets, Dallas, LA and many others.
- I assume that Kahn was focused on this line of thought long before it entered my tiny mind, and he seems the type that would address it somehow. I am guessing he has some tax lawyers looking at how to make it easiest on Rubio financially, and other lawyers looking at the NBA’s relevant rules and language. And we all can agree that neither Kahn nor Taylor want to run afoul of Stern’s office again.
Given all of the above, I’m guessing there is a significant amount of work ongoing on this, not just by Kahn and other GMs, but also with the NBA office to see how they can proceed to get Rubio into the league this year. If this is true, then Kahn would choose to say as little about it as possible. He would also prefer to not have to deny anything that may later prove to be untrue. Thus his short answers may be an attempt to limit the scope of what he is asked about.
Of course, this is all speculation on my part, and I’m often wrong. It may just be Kahn being short with dumb questions, as others have suggested, and I’ll certainly not fault him for that. But I’ll tell you this, if I had the chance to talk to him (and I never will), I would definitely ask some leading questions on what alternatives might be considered to facilitating Rubio’s transition, and whether he has talked to Stern’s office about lowering barriers to bringing Rubio over, and so on.
I hope SnP gets an interview with the man, my interest in how Kahn chooses to work these issues is growing.
I have a series of questions...
….ready to go ;)
My big interest with Kahn would be to hear his thoughts on the modern state of the media now that he has been on both sides of the fence, so to speak. Basketball-wise, I’d want to know about the unbalanced roster (especially at the 2/3), how the team was prepared for the draft in the front office with guys like Stack, Babcock, and Hoiberg and what he will do going forward, his thoughts on lopsided trades vs. free agent signings, what he thinks an appropriate level is for the Rubio’s bottom line, whether or not there is a need to increase the amount an NBA team can pay on a buyout, and what changes in the CBA could present a problem for the Rubio situation down the line. I’d also like to know if he has a plan for upgrading the team’s facilities before 2010 free agency.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
Facilities: poor David
Kahn’s role in the Field House for the Pacers was one of the things Glen mentioned upon his hire, but at this point I bet Kahn doesn’t know what hotel he’s staying in…. ;-)
i’m sure that mayn hol up! probably has some questions too
by secretarykissinger on Jul 7, 2009 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't have a huge problem with the interview
There’s criticism out there, and I have no problem with Abbott confronting him with it. It’s fair game, maybe a bit sloppily done, but not out of line really. Didn’t really lead to good conversation or insight in the way it was worded though.
Criticism from who?
That’s the problem with unnamed sources. It’s vapor. How is anyone supposed to respond to a question with “People say” or “They say” as the start of the sentence? Who says? It’s absurd. He could have asked similar questions. For instance: David, before the draft Ricky was quoted as saying that he would be willing to play for free and that being in the NBA was his ultimate goal. After the draft, he has not taken such an optimistic tone, repeatedly saying that he will have to weigh his options. There are a pretty limited number of variables that exist for him to make such a turn. One of them is Jonny Flynn. Let’s set aside the buyout issue for a moment, have you been told by Ricky, his family or his agent that the drafting of Jonny Flynn is in any way problematic for Rubio becoming a Minnesota Timberwolf? If not Flynn, what do you believe was the catalyst for this change in his public stance?
Instead, we got “people who I talk to tell me…blah, blah, blah.” What people? There was simply zero reason to frame the question that way other than to dress up one’s own opinion in the big boy clothes of “sources tell me”. It avoids both accountability while not paying enough attention to the facts at hand. Could Flynn be the reason? Of course he could and you can easily frame the question without resorting to unnamed interests.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
www.canishoopus.com
I remember way back in junior high school
when we gave a report or wrote an essay, if I said “they” any where inthe report/essay the teacher would respond with “who’s they?” starting a sentence with “they” is bad english, especially at this level, when “they” is not specificaly laid out. It is lazy writing because it allows the reader to imagine who “they” is with out mentioning any one, we are allowed to imagine “they” is someone who actually knows something when in reality “they” is the bum who panhandles in the street.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Jul 8, 2009 8:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Ego
This is just some strange ego-boost. I will say, “People I know in the NBA…” or “Sources with other NBA teams tell me…” with the full intention of letting you know that I am connected and important.
That kind of journalism makes me sick. Just ask the freakin’ question already.
Veritas Vos Liberabit
by CaptainFatpants on Jul 8, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm still comfortable with our position....
Kahn’s position hasn’t changed and is a realistic one.
It’s still possible Rubio doesn’t want to play here, but that is not the same as having a choice. I wouldn’t be dissuaded by that right now. It’s aquestion of how much Rubio wants to play in the NBA.
And in the event of a buyout being agreed, the execution of that payment and the signing of a contract would be near simultaneous events. Rubio will want the 500k and the Wolves won’t hand it over without a guarantee he’ll play.
I think the CH narrative on this is still reasonable.
by Auswolf on Jul 7, 2009 6:14 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
A lot of good points in this post…on both sides...
We are all trying to get to the heart of Ricky Rubio’s motivation. Before the draft, RR made comments about playing for free in the NBA and not caring where he played. After we picked him, the hemming and hawing started, and I will be the first the say I bought it hook, line, and sinker. Being a big fan of European football (soccer), I saw a European athlete angling for a transfer, and those guys ALWAYS get what they want. There were, however, a few things I didn’t know:
Joventut is in serious financial trouble and has used Rubio’s buyout as a security against their tax debt with the Spanish IRS
Rubio’s buyout with Joventut expires in two years. If he stays there for that period, they are dead financially
Once RR went #5, what were his options? He knew that the Rookie scale wouldn’t cover his buyout in the first two years. Why is two years important? Because those are the guaranteed years of a rookie contract. If his salary for those two years is less than the buyout, there is significant risk on the part of the party that loans him money, and the price goes up. That’s why negotiating a lower buyout is more of a priority now than it was before, and why things have gone as we’ve seen so far.
The bottom line is this, and always has been this: It is overwhelmingly good for RR to get to the NBA as soon as possible. Who he plays for means nothing on his rookie deal, as he’ll rack up international endorsements no matter what market he plays in. He’s already in Gillette commercials with Tiger Woods, Derek Jeter, and Roger Federer for Chrissakes. Playing in Sota would be best for his development as well. A young, flashy, good-loking 18 year old PG can get away with a lot of mistakes in Minnesota. How would that play in NYC? Constant booing in December as the kid is trying to settle into the American culture and the NBA game is not exactly a recipe for success. And finally: the sooner he starts his 1st contract in th NBA, the sooner he gets to his 2nd contract where he makes HUGE money.
Ricky will be here come November…
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
great comment...
…and hopefully your summary is spot on as well!
One thing i dont think I've heard....
If he waits 1 or 2 years….does he start with the rookie pay scale right away? Or might the years he plays in Europe “after he’s been drafted by an NBA team” count towards him being able to get his second contract? in other words…could he stay in Euro for 2 years…come here and play 1 year under his 3rd year of the rookie deal and then sign his 2nd contract?
For what its worth, I’m sure Rubio’s not thrilled to be in Minnesota. Who would be. But i havent heard him say he doesnt want to be here. I think thats mostly us projecting our paranoia onto him. Sure he’d rather play in NY….but the road to the NBA comes though Minny for him. Dont forget that.
I think Kahn is doing the right thing in just being patient.
His rookie contract starts
when he comes here. The scale amount is based on the year he starts playing here, but the total years on the contract don’t start running until he signs.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 8, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Which brings up another point
Since the salary cap figures came out lower than last year, and next year’s is expected to be lower still, it would make sense that the #5 slot in the rookie pay scale for next year would actually be LESS than this year. If not a financial genius, but time-value of money tells me that RR should take out a loan for $5 million, pay of the Spanish club for whatever ransom they are holding him to, and pay back the loan over his first 2-3 years with the Wolves. This will be his quickest avenue to his second contract and the big bucks.
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