Q&A with Kevin Pelton
If Daryl Morey is, as Bill Simmons calls him, Dork Elvis, Kevin Pelton is Chuck Berry or Bo Diddley. From his statistical analysis primer to APBRMetrics Central to the APBR forum to his current work at Basketball Prospectus Kevin is responsible for a fairly large chunk of what has inspired a great deal of content on this site.
After reading some of his work with fellow SB Nation sites Blazer's Edge and Third Quarter Collapse, I thought I'd contact Kevin to see if he could give us any insight on the current state of the Wolves and he was kind enough to provide the following responses:
1- David Kahn has repeatedly cited the defensive potential of Jonny Flynn as being a primary reason for selecting him over Stephen Curry with the 6th pick in the draft. Unfortunately, Flynn doesn't seem to have a college record that would suggest him becoming a terrific on-the-ball defender in the NBA. Is there anything on his stat sheet that would indicate development into the type of defensive player that Kahn is talking about? Are there any historical precedents for a player in a 2-3 zone putting up similar numbers in college before becoming a solid NBA defender?
I glanced at the numbers for a handful of Syracuse players to come into the NBA the last few years, and I don't see a lot of evidence that playing in a zone held back their numbers. Hakim Warrick ended up a better shot-blocker than you would have predicted based on his college statistics, but he and Carmelo Anthony both underachieved a bit in terms of their steal percentage. As far as guys playing at the top of the zone, the best comparison would be Jason Hart, who was a terrific thief in college (averaging better than three steals per game as a junior) and kept that up in the NBA.
These being defensive stats, a lack of them isn't necessarily damning. Amongst guys with similar college defensive numbers, you find a pretty good defender in Delonte West and a stopper in Kirk Hinrich (who did block more shots in college). What those guys had that Flynn doesn't is height and strong defensive reputations in college. It's hard to find much evidence backing up Kahn's optimism about Flynn's potential at the defensive end.
2- The Wolves currently have a massively unbalanced roster with 9 bigs, 4 points, Corey Brewer and Wayne Ellington. While they appear to be serviceable at the 1 and the 4/5, they are headed towards disaster at the 2/3. What undrafted free agents or cost-conscious veteran free agents would provide value to the Wolves at the 2/3?
The Timberwolves are already ahead of the game with Paul Harris on their summer-league roster as one of the better wings who went undrafted. As you guys have mentioned, Lee Cummard is another undrafted player who would make sense, and I'd add the Marquette duo of Jerel McNeal and Wesley Matthews. As for as veteran free agents, there's not a whole lot out there on the wings. It seems like the best Minnesota can hope for is a reclamation project along the lines of Kirk Snyder and Rodney Carney the last couple of years. Unfortunately, that group includes Carney, Rashad McCants and Gerald Green, guys the Timberwolves have already given a shot. Besides them, you're looking at Morris Almond and Luther Head. The chances of finding a real contributor are low, but then so is the cost.
3- Setting aside any opinion on whether David Kahn is serious or not with his desire to play Ricky Rubio and Jonny Flynn side-by-side, do you think that this is a duo that could work together at the NBA level?
Yeah, I think it could work. With the modern NBA emphasizing speed over size, I think it's possible to get away with a smaller duo like Flynn and Rubio. The bigger question is whether you're maximizing talent, and that's where a Flynn-Rubio duo would fall short. Ultimately, you're keeping one or both of them from exploiting their ability to create with the ball in their hands if you play them together. That's why people have rightfully criticized the Wolves.
4- One of the biggest arguments against the selection of Jonny Flynn with the 6th pick is that the Wolves left each and every single non-Harden/Evans shooting guard/wing on the board while taking a second point guard. The team then picked up Wayne Ellington at 28 instead of taking players like Jermaine Taylor, Marcus Thornton or Jodie Meeks. Did the Wolves get good value at 28 with Ellington? Was there any shooting guard/wing worth taking at 6 instead of Flynn?
Given the Timberwolves' need for a shooter, I think Ellington was about as good of a value as they could have gotten at 28. I'm not a huge fan of any of the other shooting guards who went early in the second round, and the available small forwards other than maybe Chase Budinger were more 3/4 types, not guys who would space the floor.
I didn't love the wings on the board at pick six either, unless you count Stephen Curry in that group (and even Curry I felt was somewhat overrated). Neither Demar DeRozan nor Gerald Henderson put up strong numbers at the NCAA level, and anyone else would have been a reach. If the Minnesota front office didn't want to take a chance on DeRozan making good on his potential, I don't think you can blame them for that.
END
Thanks again to Kevin Pelton for taking the time to answer a few questions. We encourage our readers to make Basketball Prospectus (especially the Unfiltered blog) a daily stop.
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Many thanks
Ultimately, you’re keeping one or both of them from exploiting their ability to create with the ball in their hands if you play them together.
This is interesting. I think we overlook the affect on Flynn of this PG logjam. He has been taken #6 to be second banana to a kid two years his junior. It’s to his credit that he been a pro in public.
Yeah...
…Kevin made an excellent point about maximizing value. They can be valuable together but getting full value might be problematic.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
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Wasn't
one of the knocks on Flynn the idea that he is too ball dominant and not efficient enough when he has it? I think the value could come from Flynn being more efficient off the ball with less touches and less volume shooting.
I think Rubio is projected as being better at creating for his teammates while Flynn is projected as being better at creating for himself. The two would seem to vibe.
by Minneapleseed on Jul 8, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions
As we've said before. . .
. . . it’s not like they are going to be playing 48 minutes together. If each plays 20 min @ point and another 20 playing together, that’s maximizing value for rookies, isn’t it? Then we get to see what we have and I’m sure the splits will change as the season goes along.
Sometimes the obvious is hidden.
flynn actually was not very ball dominate. his usage rate was split almost equal with his other two guards. he can survive off the ball. also as a coach and a former college player having multiple guards that can break down the defense is awesome not a bad thing. common sense people.
by revprodeji on Jul 8, 2009 1:24 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
This
is one of the main reasons the strictly basketball side of my mind is hoping Rubio stays over in Euroland for another year or two. I’d like to see what Flynn has without having the strange pressure of Rubio being there too. We could try him off the ball, at the point, and ultimately make a more informed decision about whether to trade one or the other, or play them together.
Slightly on topic
as it relates to filling the gaps at the 2/3, Matt Barnes is about as inexpensive as it gets in terms of salary/production, and he’s been freed from the shackles of the Phoenix Suns.
Rooting for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 10:20 a.m. on June 24th, 2009
I'm on the Barnes boat...
Has anyone seen Morris Almond play? His non-NBA stats make him sound like an ideal tryout guy. He’s listed with excellent size.
G. Wallace
I like Barnes as a cheap 2/3. What I would really like to see is G Wallace in a Wolve’s uniform and send Brewer and ? to equal the pay to get him. Aren’t thry looking to get rid of some pay, and I thought Char was willing to part with Wallace.
Rubio, Ellington, Wallace, Love, Jefferson would be a nice staring lineup. Although, we could use a little more experience at the 1/2.
I think Charlotte's on the cusp
between a last playoff gasp and entering rebuilding. As much as I like Wallace, he might be a year or two older than what the Wolves would be looking for. And that’s assuming they move toward a “win more games now” phase.
Besides, he’s their best player, and a decent value. So the Bobcats and the Wolves would basically have to switch philosophies to make a trade ideal for both teams.
Rooting for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 10:20 a.m. on June 24th, 2009
I'll have a post on it coming up in the next week or so...
….but what about a lopsided trade or a sign-and-trade with some picks next offseason for someone like Thad Young, Rudy Gay, Anthony Randolph or JR Smith? I’m most interested in Young and Gay but instead of someone like Wallace, who could be broken down by the time the team hopefully clicks, how about a younger wing player with upside?
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"I’m most interested in Young and Gay"
Hopefully, this is the only context in which you make that statement on teh interwebs.
Rooting for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 10:20 a.m. on June 24th, 2009
I really thought..
…about how could add Kevin Love to the mix but I figured it would be too over the top.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
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I also like...
Nic Batum, Thabo Sefolosha and Nick Young.
Why not go for the Young, Gay, Love trifecta, it’s not over the top at all :)
by Minneapleseed on Jul 8, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes to Gay-Love!
Now that is a great idea. I like Young too, but I don’t see Philly giving him up. Although peeling Gay away from Memphis wouldn’t seem to be too easy either. Any ideas on a realistic trade proposal?
Nic or Thabo...
…would be a great add. I like Thabo a little better, but if we could get Thabo and Gay we would be very athletic and much better defensively on the perimeter. Rubio, Thabo, Gay, Love and Al would be fun to watch.
Is
Thabo that much better than Carney?
We got Rubio!
by Wim (Belgium) on Jul 8, 2009 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes--
“private acts of consenting adults” and “not that there’s anything wrong with that” aside, I’m pretty sure these comments are being picked up by some type of law enforcement snooping software.
Rooting for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 10:20 a.m. on June 24th, 2009
Just great...
another list I’ve been added to. Big Brother is watching…
by Minneapleseed on Jul 8, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Speaking of which
watch out. I once thought I was wooing a middle-aged FBI agent online. But when I went to meet him, it turned out to be a 14 year-old girl.
Rooting for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 10:20 a.m. on June 24th, 2009
Your Mama. . .
. . . says she raised you better than that. Flirting with FBI agents – shame shame. Now CIA cross dressers. . .
Sometimes the obvious is hidden.
so now is the time...
…we should start talking about al qaeda?
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
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Too late . . .
I think Mayn Holup already offered to take Rubio out to eat some of that at the mercado once the kid gets to town.
Rooting for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 10:20 a.m. on June 24th, 2009
That's right...
….young gay love, weed and al qaeda. Do we have any neo-Nazi meth dealers in the audience?
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
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Why do...
I feel like you’re describing my last family reunion?
by Minneapleseed on Jul 8, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Or the family...
…who lives on Old Shakopee Road between Cedar Avenue and the mall. I think the head of the MN Neo-Nazi party lives there. One of my first jobs was at Boogie’s at the Mall and when I’d drive from over near Portland to MoA I’d always see a bunch of skinheads with Nazi flags and a bunch of motorcycles in the driveway. It’s right across from the only working farm (a goat farm no less) in Hennepin county. I always thought there was a connection…and yes, we can now add neo-nazi bestiality to the list. I wonder if those clowns are still there.
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Wow...
I have got to see this for myself. A goat farm operated by Neo-Nazi skinheads. Wonder what they do with the goats…
by Minneapleseed on Jul 8, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think the farm is operated by them...
…and it may even be a sheep farm…I’m not 100% sure. I just always thought that the nazis snuck over the fence at night time. If they’re crazy enough to be nazis, I figured it’s not that big of a leap.
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Disappointing...
I like the other story better :)
by Minneapleseed on Jul 8, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Minneapolis -
Where Men are Men and goats are running scared. . .and hiding under swasticas.
Sometimes the obvious is hidden.
atlanta needs to be a primary target. there is no way they can keep smith williams and childress. any of those 3 would fit our sf need. all of them are also in our age range too.
by revprodeji on Jul 8, 2009 2:02 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree...
…but I wonder what Atlanta’s time line is for making a move. Williams could very well end up taking a qualifying offer for a year.
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I have not spoke to my cba guys so I am lacking the s/t knowledge. do our expirings and a minor asset work? would atlanta even take back an expiring? considering the need for a true 5 I bet pekovic has serious value. it would help both teams.
by revprodeji on Jul 8, 2009 2:46 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
the wolves....
….would be in a much better place to deal after next season ends. they could even see what williams would get on the open market. if they wait, they can get someone like smith in a lopsided trade. if they don’t wait, they have to match salary. if williams takes a qualifying offer i think the wolves would still need to wait until free agency to sign and trade for him.
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unless the target was smith abd atlanta needed to deal him to bring back williams and bibby. I wonder if atl could move childress’ rights without a contract. an exchange for pekovic rights?
by revprodeji on Jul 8, 2009 4:35 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I THINK this is not possible
I don’t think you can trade the rights to an unsigned RFA like Childress.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 8, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions
yea I was not sure with him being away for a year if they could move his rights and let him sign with another team under the bird rights or if a traditional s/t had to be performed. I have not even heard if he was confirmed to return this year.
by revprodeji on Jul 8, 2009 4:47 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
He's been talking with the Bucks
but so far, it looks like they’re still in the exploratory phase.
Rooting for a Rubio Revolucion since roughly 10:20 a.m. on June 24th, 2009
Not a 2 or 3, but..
what about Marc Gasol? He’s Spanish, he’s a center, he hates his team, he ain’t half bad and he might not have a job now. Might not have to give much for him.
By the offensive numbers Gasol is deadly efficient
But I doubt the Grizzlies deal him at a discount, for the same reasons that the Wolves don’t want to send Rubio or Flynn away for dimes on the dollar.
Barnes...interesting
He’s a nice player, limited in the half court I think, but he plays hard and could back up both the 2/3. Good idea.
I like Pelton’s comment on taking Flynn at #6….can we just accept that EVERYONE left on the board was a stretch as a #6 pick? It was a weak draft, period. Flynn projects as a better pg than Curry, and everyone else had some sizable question marks.
Exactly.
It was a good draft for PG’s and that’s about it. The alternatives were weak, which is too bad.
The argument could be that Foye and Miller could have been traded for something else, but then you don’t get the #5 and Rubio. The alleged NY deal for #8 and Chandler did nothing for me (Chandler=Gomes).
ok, seriously. Gomes is a 3. He plays most of his minutes at the 3 and clearly will play most of his minutes there next year. We are still very thin, but Gomes will eat up minutes at the 3.
So will cardinal. So the whole “we have 9 bigs, 4 pgs and brewer/ellington” only makes sense if you are calling the SF a big spot.
Or...
…if you are horrified by these:
http://www.82games.com/0809/08MIN10.HTM#bypos
http://www.82games.com/0809/08MIN9.HTM#bypos
http://www.82games.com/0809/0809MIN5.HTM
Gomes may be a three, but it’s his worst differential at any position. Ditto Cardinal. They can play minutes there but it will not be pretty. That being said, yes, they can function with these two players at that spot….it just won’t be pretty.
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I am on my mobile so I cannot look at the links. I think gomes is going to struggle with consistency regardless of position if he is given starter minutes. he needs to move to the sf/pf small ball reserve off the bench ala posey in boston.
by revprodeji on Jul 8, 2009 1:29 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I think
it’s about we start to shop Gomes while he still has value. Him paired with some nice expirings for a wing.
We got Rubio!
by Wim (Belgium) on Jul 8, 2009 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions
How about this:
The Wolves have 3 pairs of something close to duplicates: Love/Jefferson, Flynn/Rubio and Gomes/Brewer. Next year on draft day they can take 1 player from each group + 3 possible 1st rounders + Pekovic + about $28 mil in cap space and go shopping. My immediate thought is that I would love to see them go after some 2-3 man combo of Cole Aldrich, Evan Turner, Rudy Gay and Thad Young. Whatever it is, they could have quite a wallet full of goods on draft day if they sit tight during the season and end up with 3 picks.
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how are gomes and brewer duplicates? if anything the one players strength is the other’s weakness.
by revprodeji on Jul 8, 2009 3:57 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
positionally..
….they both can’t play the 3 and they both don’t have fully guaranteed deals. Duplicates isn’t the right word. They all could compete for minutes with each other and if one left, the other could fill in.
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that is
EXACTLY the scenario that would make me leave the neo-Nazi camp. tho truth be told, as a jew, i was totally offended by all the goat-f*!king.
by johndough on Jul 9, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I never in my life..
….thought that I would encounter such a sentence. Hats off to you and 1,000,000 hoopus points.
The World's Leading Exporter of Small Area Quickness
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Gomes is also a defensive stopper at the SF
Or so we were led to believe during certain games last year, when he tried his hand at marking Kobe for one example.
Excellent use of talent, there. Really put ’em in a position to succeed.
gomes has a horrible def number. we hoped he would be a stopper but is not. he is a no energy jump shooting 3/4. brewer is a high energy def focused 2/3.
by revprodeji on Jul 8, 2009 4:38 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
(Yes, I am aware of how bad that decision was)
Just one of the many strange talent assessments of the past.
What is Pelton using to project defensive impact?
God, I hope it’s not steal rate and block rate, especially for guards. We all know those are horrible indicators of overall defensive impact. Does he have things like opponent PER or +/- numbers like 82games.com does on the pros? And even then, the Syracuse zone would seem to cloud Flynn’s true defensive potential. I actually did find a scouting report that praised Flynn’s defense:
bq.Lockdown defender on the perimeter. Flynn enjoys playing defense and seems to take pride in shutting down opposing point guards .
That is an excerpt from the latest scouting report done by nbadraft.net. Obviously the Wolves saw something in his workouts that indicate he can potentially be a nice defender at the next level.
Just watched a bunch of highlights
Of both Rubio and Flynn, and holy crap do those guys seem like two completely different players.
Flynn is strong and athletic, either blowing past guys or bulling his way to the rim. I wouldn’t be surprised if he plays adequate post defense because he’s just so strong. He looks like he could develop into an offensive force, and has all the tools and abilities (and mindset) to become a defensive one as well.
Rubio really looks like a creator for other first, and a guy who capitalizes on defenses collapsing on the guys he’s been passing too second. If/when he plays for the Twolves, Big Al and Love are going to feast whenever he’s on the floor. If he can improve his midrange two or three point shot, I see no reason why he and Flynn can’t play successfully together. One thing Rubio really needs to work on, though, is his strength and athleticism. He’s going to be knocked around in the NBA until he’s big enough to knock back. Lastly, he may never be a great on the ball defender, but he is a really good disruptor and pest. I’m sure he gets burned sometimes, but the net result may be positive if he gets easy layups and the other team to start bickering with each other.
I think Rubio and Flynn should play together before any long term decisions are made, as they might find that they co-exist quite well with each other. Flynn, I think, has the talent and the chance to be a unique offensive presence in the NBA, and one that doesn’t necessarily need the ball in his hands if he has good players setting him up (like Rubio or Love).
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
I know this is the wrong thread
but I was wondering what kind of jurisdiction a Spanish court even has to enforce a breached contract as long as Ricky made his money here. Could they actually sue him and garnish his wages in another country?
What if Rubio just said “I’m playing in the NBA this year. F&*% you and your exploitive contract. And if you want my money you’ll have to sue me in a U.S. court, where they might not be very sympathetic to holding me to an expoitive contract my parents signed when I was 14?”
Could they do that?
No, for a variety of reasons
the most obvious of which is that the NBA would not permit it.
Jurisdiction is a tricky legal issue, but doesn’t really matter in this case, because it would be a blatant violation of NBA rules.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 8, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions
And it would immediately trigger..
…a $50 mil Greek offer to both Kobe and LeBron. ;)
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There is also the small consideration
of Rubio wishing to return home at some point in his life without a court order for damages and interest hanging over his head.

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