Role players of the future
by Mplax on Aug 10, 2009 7:25 PM CDT
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PrintSo I was thinking about this when responding to a recent comment... We all consider Ryan Gomes a role player/glue guy on our team. He can contribute when he needs to and he works hard, is a good locker room guy, and he does what he is asked to do. We get him for about 4M per year, which I would say is about pretty average for a guy like him. But then you have your guys like Shane Battier. Probably one of the best role players out there. He is making about 7M per year. Ron Artest and Shawn Marion are both about the 6M mark. San Antonio's Bowen was making somewhere around 2M if I remember correctly, but he will probably be signing for the veteran's minimum pretty soon. Cleveland's non SF version of the glue guy, Varejao, is making about 6M per as well.
My point is, I would much rather have any of these guys over Gomes. Dollar for dollar, their contribution (mostly defensively) is a lot greater than Gomes'. But maybe that's just me. These guys are no chumps on offense. Artest and Marion are pretty versatile, Bowen and Battier have the solid three shot, Varejao cleans up and gets the easy dunks/layups. These guys are the role players that you need on contenders. I like Gomes, don't get me wrong, but barring any sort of drastic talent increases, he won't be the role player to bring us to the next level, especially at 4M per year when a guy could be signed for a veteran's minimum when we finally need those role players. Cheap players looking to get their ring before they retire. This leads into my question for the post: In 3-4 years when we are hopefully contending, who will be the role players and veterans that we will be signing to push us over the top? Boston did a ton of this 2 years ago: Cassell, House, Posey, and PJ Brown. Who will these guys be for us? Maybe its a couple of the guys I just mentioned, but a few of them are on longer term deals and Varejao will not be on the downside yet, so probably not.
Will a guy like KG come back home? To be the last piece (our defensive 4/5) to play 15mpg and finally get his title in MN... (note that even when he is in his upper thirties this man will probably be making close to MLE... unless he deteriorates a lot in the next few years - not entirely unlikely) This could be another post altogether: Whether KG will come or not and where he will be in his career, how much he will make, etc etc.
Battier could be a possibility if he will leave Houston?
Mike Miller could be at that point if he gets a 2 or 3 year deal after this season.
Posey will be at that point in his career.
Anyways, these are just a few people I thought of that might be at that point in their careers. I know I missed a lot of people, after all, everyone gets older. Any ideas of who you think will be around for us down the road a ways? You can also include when you think we will be contending (whether it be 2 years or 10) to justify why you think this person will be at that point of their careers.
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Bringing back KG
would be amazing but we are going to have to wait at least three years until that happens, and by then his body may not be holding up anymore.
We could have had Battier (and Brooks) in a trade with Houston and I’m glad we rejected it. Battier is a good player but his value comes when you already have 4-5 solid pieces. This is because he can then lock down players and not have to think about scoring. Having Flynn, Ellington and Battier instead of Gomes defending the perimeter isn’t going to improve our team. Same thing with Posey. And I’d much rather be paying $3.8mil for Gomes than $6.9m for Battier and $6m for Posey.
Miller I hate and after his performance last year, he should not be considered to wear a Wolves uniform ever again. I wouldn’t have cared about him missing shots if he had actually taken them in the first place.
Exactly
I threw KG out there as a possibility because it will be at least 3 years before we are in contention mode. His body will not be holding up as well, but he will probably still be in the league as a 15mpg type. I can see him as the type of guy who would want to give his fans in MN what they wanted for him all along- hopefully on the cheap.
Battier, while a great player, is not a great player for the Wolves as it stands. But in 3-4 years he might be. A defensive stopper who can hit a three pointer if left wide open. Leaves a lot of space for Al and Love to work down low. He also will not be making as much money when he is into his thirties, same goes for Posey. IF we were in contention right now, I would take Battier at 7 over Gomes at 4 any day. Defense on the perimeter will definitely improve our team. What is your reasoning for saying it can’t?
Miller is a shooter. McHale is an idiot. This is the only year that Miller didn’t shoot. I would have to think that under a different coach and with the focus on winning rather than development, Miller would take his open looks (and if history proves itself, he will make a lot of those open looks).
That being said, you never gave any ideas as to who you thought would be available… you obviously have an opinion on the issue?
My role players
for the Wolves depend on when we acquire them and where the team is headed. I completely agree that I would prefer to have Battier at 7 than I would have Gomes at 4, but we obviously don’t have the depth or the talent for that to be the case.
Currently, I’d be looking at wing men in the Childress kind of mold, an athletic 2/3 that is a good defender, can hit the 3 and young. Rudy Fernandez, Martell Webster, Thabo Sefolsha, Thad Young, Nick Young
As a role playing forwards go, Brandon Bass, Linas Kleiza, Tyrus Thomas
One criteria to a role player
is that they are usually very solid on defense. To realistically be considered a championship contender, you kind of need the whole offensive thing down and likely already have your sixth man. While there is always some room for improvement, you can pretty much scratch off anyone from the list who is a subaverage defender. Your ultimate role players can be put on the court to provide opportunisitic offense and solid D.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 11, 2009 7:23 AM CDT reply actions
Eddie House?
I would she he has subpar defense, but last year on numerous occasions he offered a very valuable offensive spark off the bench. Thoughts?
I wouldn't quite say that
To be a role player you have to fill a certain role. Whether that be scoring off the bench, guarding the best opposing player, hustling, leadership, blocking, etc, etc. While it would be nice to have a defensive minded role player, Boss brings up a good example with Eddie House. Boston’s main reason for winning was defense, so in their case offense was what they needed from a role player off the bench. PJ Brown was their big defender off the bench role player, Posey was their hustle defense/3pt role player, Powe was their hustle and bang em up role player. They had a few, and not all of them were defensive role players.
Fair enough
So I guess that we could summarize by saying that team pull in role players to coverup for their other deficiencies. So to really have any kind of idea about what the perfect role player would be, we would have to make some assumptions about what the team will look like,
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 11, 2009 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Good point
But I would also say we can generalize a few role players as a group that is needed on any team? I.E. Defenders, knock down shooters (both of these if you are lucky – Bowen/Battier), hustle players always help. And I would agree with you that the biggest need of a role player is usually a defensive one. We seem to need those the most as well (at least from where we stand now, and even good defensive teams need defensive role players like Posey) with shooters coming in a close second.
yeah teams always need defenders
because when they draft they get blinders on for the offensive potential of players, unless of course they believe from the getgo that they are elite defensively or are a shot blocking 7ft+ center (they almost never pass that one up). Everytime I hear people gushing about them being an explosive scorer I always ask how bad they are on defense.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 12, 2009 7:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Probably guys that are on the team this year and the next couple drafts
It will be the guys who don’t win the starting battles but have good attitudes and understand they are not good enough to be starters.
An obvious example is Corey Brewer. Assuming his knee recovers but his offense doesn’t, he could definitely be one of the defensive role players a few years from now who can still contribute 8 PPG on the fast break while playing 15 MPG of solid defense.
So you think we will ignore FAs
and stick with just development through the draft? (for the most part)
I think they would like to use their own players...
.. however, that is also up to the players and where the Wolves end up drafting. Also depends on what trades they make the next couple of years. If Pekovic becomes a Wolf, he will be a role player. The Utah pick (unless traded) will hopefully provide a role player.
I based my previous comment on the # of picks they have the next couple years, in addition to Pekovic. Also, I am assuming based on prior drafts that either Flynn or Rubio will not live up to expectations, thus becoming a role player on the Wolves (assuming they accept reality before being released/traded). The last point is why I used Brewer as an example.
I think they try
to use the contracts/cap space to be involved in trades to get marginally better prospects and draft picks. They will draft people who would fit well in their offensive and as yet to be determined defense, unless there is a vastly superior talent (BPA and all that). I can almost guarantee that they won’t sign a big free agent, unless they are in the right age range and can jump start the teams success, which judging from the tone they don’t think will happen.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 11, 2009 3:37 PM CDT reply actions
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