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The super mega ultimate post. Part 1...yes, there's more.

This post is going to be an ultimate analysis of the Wolves from last season's team all the way up to next season's team. I am going to try to update the post with any feedback I receive and also as time goes on. This took me a lot of time to get out so please provide useful feedback, analysis, ideas, or constructive criticism that can further aid the progression of this post. I will change my numbers if it's helpful to the post and general consensus disagrees with me. It's a long one, so set aside some time for it or take it in pieces. I will start in chronological order with last years team (Because those who don't learn from history....) up to next years team (Are we doomed to repeat it?).  

Star-divide

LAST YEAR:

Our depth chart for the 2008-2009 season plus a rough estimate of player rating out of 100 rounded to the nearest 5 with a +, -, or = (or a combination) if they are trending upward or downward (please don't look too into this unless you think I am just that far off):

PG: Randy Foye (75+)/Sebastian Telfair (70+=)/Kevin Ollie (55=-)/Bobby Brown* (55=)

SG: Mike Miller (75-)/Rashad McCants* (65=)/Randy Foye (75+)

SF: Ryan Gomes (70=+)/Corey Brewer (65++)/Mike Miller (75-)/Rodney Carney (65+=)

PF: Kevin Love (75++)/Al Jefferson (85+)/Ryan Gomes (70=+)/Craig Smith (65+)/Brian Cardinal (55-)/Shelden Williams* (60=+)/Mark Madsen (00)

C: Al Jefferson (85+)/Kevin Love (75++)/Jason Collins (60-)/Calvin Booth* (45-)

Coach: Wittman for 19 games and McHale for 63

Total Salary: $58.8M (please correct me if I am wrong on this, couldn't really find a reliable source)

*McCants and Booth for Williams and Brown: All pretty insignificant over the course of the year

 

As we can see, we had about 4 players at PG, 3 at SG, 4 at SF, 7 at PF, and 4 at C. Obviously, some are counted twice and some *could* play another position and might have during the season, but not enough to include (such as Brewer at SG). Booth probably played less than 10 total minutes while he was here and McCants was an enigma...or maybe it was just that no one knew how good he was except for himself... I don't know! We ended this season with 24 wins. According to basketball-reference we actually took 205 more shots over the course of the season than our opponents and shot 188 fewer free throws. Almost all of this discrepancy was due to the 162 more offensive rebounds we got over the course of the year despite having 137 more turnovers (still, we are +25 possessions here). Defensive rebounding was actually in favor of the opposition by 97 (which could be in part due to the other teams just making 123 more shots than us despite shooting so much less).

My point in all of this is that we lost A LOT of our turnover contributors (of course we also added some, especially Flynn if summer league is any indication) while keeping our most consistent rebounders in Love and Big Al. On the other hand, we also lost our two best efficiency shooters (Craig Smith and Mike Miller). Then again, Mike was one of the lowest volume shooters on the team and both he and Craig were defensive liabilities. On this same case, we lost some of our lower efficiency scorers in McCants, Telfair, Madsen, Collins, Willams, and Brown (not really, but hopefully he doesn't see too many minutes). So hopefully we lost/don't use 6 of our 7 lowest efficiency scorers (Brewer being the seventh) while only losing two of our better ones. What we can gather from this, is that if we can increase our offensive efficiency, we should be able to outscore opponents based just on available shot attempts. Obviously there are other factors involved that we also must improve and remember, this is against the league average, not the playoff teams. Below, I will list the main players we lost from last year and some of the main things he brought to the team and maybe how they hurt the team.

Foye: He brought a mixture of hope and dissapointment, not because of himself as a player, but because of how he was acquired. He had flashes of stardom (4th Quarter Foye....remember that? I bought in...damn), but never really put it together on a consistent basis. In January when we had our run is when he was playing his best, shows us what could have been. His defense...wait... what defense? Not much to talk about there, it was painful. His ceiling is an Al type player with less skill though. He has a nice offensive game, but no real defense to make him contribute enough to a team that wins. Good 6th man, but hasn't proven he can play against starter-level talent.

Miller: Great shooter! Wait a second... he knows how to shoot?! He never did what we wanted him to do and what he got paid for doing. For some reason he never got his shot going in MN, but he did hustle a lot. I can't count how many times I watched him get up painfully off the floor last year. Another weak defensive player, but not a huge liability as long as he was making the open shot.

The Rhino: Absolute beast of a man. Fun guy. Probably kept our guys' heads up in the locker room during the rough patches. As a player though, besides his efficient scoring he didn't contribute much else. He was a liability on defense, giving up almost as much as he got from his own man plus more by not playing help D.

Bassy: The fourth bad defensive player in a row. Great assist to turnover ratio though! One of the better in the league. A guy I wish we could have given a better chance. Foye overshadowed him for most of the time here. Has a lot of talent and is still pretty young. Personally, I hope we can get him back some day when we need a backup PG. Not a great shooter or finisher, which kind of ruined his career, but still a solid backup. Big Al wasn't happy to see him go and specifically said so so that is never fun to hear. On a side note, I finally made it over to the Clipper's site and found the introductory videos and I was sad to hear Bassy's most of all. He really appreciated his time here and even said he was sad to go (not the prototypical kind either). Smith was his usual self and joking around, but really happy to be back home.

Madsen: What more can be said about Madsen? I hated watching him play. I understand why people like him, so do I. But I don't know why so many people wanted him playing on the team. I for one would be happy if he came back after his contract is up though. Not as a player or a coach, but as a replacement for Wally Szczerbiak's youth pastor brother (not really...) who is always at the Target Center talking during breaks and trying to convince me to gouge my ears out with my straw. Seriously, anyone else know who I am talking about and agree?

McCants: Absolute enigma. The only benefit he brought to the team was instant offense....sometimes. Other times he would try to do too much, but couldn't. I've made the joke a lot around here, but I really don't think McCants realizes why he isn't making $8M per year. He wants to be the best, which is nice to see in a player, but he doesn't know how to do it and he doesn't realize that he isn't even close. I wanted to like this guy so much from when we drafted him, but I just never could relate to Rashad. I still remember the "last game" of his Wolves career (he played afterwards, but you knew he was done here). I believe he had just missed 2 semi-guarded 3s in the last few possessions, then he came down the floor and missed another one. Everyone in the Target Center was booing him. He lost his composure, he was benched for quite a few games and never looked comfortable in the offense after that. Couple games of playing and he was traded. Side note: I heard he would stiff valets when he would go out on the town.

Coaches: Wittman....ugh. Awful. McHale was a little better, but not tremendous. He had the respect of the players, which is always a plus. Neither of these two seemed capable of drawing up successful plays. I have ranted about this elsewhere, but I hated seeing our PF catch the ball at the top of the 3pt line 10 seconds into the shotclock and look around aimlessly for whoever got open first. Wittman can be summed up by the game against the Celtics at home where we were slowly losing our lead and we lost the game in the last 20 seconds because we let them score four straight off turnovers, one of which was because Brewer couldn't get an inbounds pass and Witt didn't have his witts about him to call a timeout.

No one else is worth talking about besides maybe Carney, but I will talk about him in present tense when I get to this year. Speaking of which:

 

 

THIS YEAR:

 Our depth chart for 2009-10 with projected ratings according to my trends (Some are just complete guesses! Thanks in advance for not judging them too harshly). Also for this year, special thanks to TheEvilProfessor for his help and collaboration on this part, I am adding a letter grade for a combination of how we believe that the guys (at least the ones who will matter to the team) help or hurt the rest of the guys on the court on offense and defense and also a little bit based on their own talent for defense (proper rotation only goes so far I guess...). This will be the two letters after their rank and trajectory marks, first offense and then defense. I will also give trajectory marks to their ability to improve or otherwise at being a teammate. I rated all rookies very poorly on defense because rookies have consistently struggled with the adjustment in their first years.

 

 PG: Ramon Sessions (80+, AB+=, C+)/Jonny Flynn (75++, BC++, CD++)/Chucky Atkins (55--)/Bobby Brown (55=)

SG: Corey Brewer (70+, B+=, AB=+)/Wayne Ellington (65++, C+, CD++)/Ramon Sessions (80+, AB+=, C+)/Damien Wilkins (55=)

SF: Ryan Gomes (70=+, C=+, CD=+)/Corey Brewer (70+, B+=, AB=+)/Oleksiy Pecherov (XX+=, CD+=, D+=)

PF: Kevin Love (80++, B+, C++)/Al Jefferson (85+, B=+, CD+)/Darius Songaila (65=, C=, C=)/Ryan Gomes (70=+, C=+, CD=+)/Oleksiy Pecherov (XX+=, CD+=, D+=)/Brian Cardinal (50-)

C: Al Jefferson (85+, B=+, CD+)/Ryan Hollins (XX+, C+, BC+=)/Kevin Love (80++, B+, C++)/Darius Songaila (65=, C=, C=)/Mark Blount (60-)

Coach: Kurt Rambis (Just for fun: 70++, C++, B++)

Total Salary: $61M (Again, found a couple different numbers, but all were pretty close to this)

Strengths: Rebounding, front court, coach?, potential, Euros, youth, shot attempts, expirings

Weaknesses: Defense, wings, winning culture, number one option, perimeter players, steals/blocks, scoring efficiency, ability to get to the line, high foul rate, and fast break points (historically)

 

As you can see, I think we will have a decent upgrade at the C and PF spots just because of further development and because I think we replaced a bag full of garbage with a bag full of garbage and a quarter. As for the guard spots, I think we have had a slight downgrade in talent, but a large upgrade in potential. At SF, I think it will stay about the same with Gomes there and if Brewer improves a bit, but I also think that this is the spot we will be focusing on in FA next year. I left off rankings for Hollins and Pecherov because I admit that I know very little about them, but I do think they both have room for improvement!

A few bets I would be pretty comfortable putting a small bit of money on:

  • Chucky Atkins is held around as a backup for a while and then included in a rather meaningless multiple player deal just before his contract becomes guaranteed. If Blount is not bought out, maybe with him if a team really wants to drop some salary, but I would guess he will just be bought out. Considering we also have Wilkins, Pecherov, and Cardinal expiring though, I would guess Blount will just be bought out if no teams need a temporary Center to replace an injury by season start. If so, we might be able to get another expiring for slightly less cash. Rockets? Warriors if Biedrins or Turiaf goes down? Probably not though, Blount will most likely get bought out sooner rather than later. A promise: There is no way Atkins is around past the trade deadline (barring injury or drastic improvement)
  • Corey Brewer starts the season off as our starting SG, but if he starts producing he will start at SF with Ellington taking over as starting SG assuming he pans out to be a solid player. If not, Ellington will take over for Brewer and Brewer will come off the bench behind Ellington and Gomes.
  • Chicken: Rodney Carney getting small contract. Egg: Wilkins traded for slightly less salary or cut.
  • Gomes will play almost exclusively at SF this year (barring signings or injuries). If he becomes a backup (above bet comes true), he will move up to 75 from 70 in my rankings.

 I'm going to back up a step here to take a look at how our roster got from where we were last year to where we are now. I give a "net talent" amount which I estimated based on FMV of these guys. I'll try to keep updating the changes in FMV as they occur to have a different perspective on Kahn's success/failure so far. Probably not gonna take into account those second round picks unless they turn into the next Arenas or Monta Ellis. The trades:

  • By sending Foye and Miller away we got back: Etan Thomas, Darius Songaila, Oleksiy Pecherov and the #5 pick. In this trade we picked up a bit of salary this year and Darius' contract next year in return for the pick. We sent away two players who Kahn would not have resigned next year barring any break out talent from Foye. We also opened up a lot more development time for whoever our draft picks turned out to be. Restrictions on these players end 8/24. Net Cash: -$5M and Ricky's salary whenever he gets here. Net Talent: TBD by Rubio's future compared to losing Foye/Miller for nothing. Net Gain/Loss: TBD
  • Next we sent Etan Thomas to OKC for Wilkins and Atkins. This was a pure salary trade, shedding just under $1M and also giving us the option to buy out Chucky Atkins to save a couple million more. I have to believe that Kahn sent Thomas away already knowing Hollins was soon on his way. Restrictions on these players end 9/27. Net Cash: +$3M (unrealized- Atkins). Net Talent: 0. Net Gain/Loss: +$3M
  • Most recently, we have turned Telfair, Smith, and Madsen into QRich into Mark Blount. I was not a fan of the first trade when most people here seemed to be. The second trade I was definitely a fan of. I never wanted to see QRich set foot on the court here and this way we saved a little bit more cash. Maybe someone here can explain to me why people were so angry about those three going for Mark Blount but not for Richardson? Even IF we were going to play these two, I would rather have Blount on the court than QRich chucking up shots. That being said, the net here still dissapoints me. It wasn't worth saving $2.5M next year compared to what could have been. We should have just waived Madsen and tried to trade Telfair or Smith on their own if we weren't going to keep them. Otherwise, waive all three. At least get our pick back for a future second by taking QRich off the Clips' hands. Restriction on Blount ends 10/13. Net Cash: +$3M (unrealized- Blount buyout), could have been more. Net Talent: -$3.5M. Although we did get rid of Madsen... Net Gain/Loss: -$.5M
  • Finally, we signed Ryan Hollins and Ramon Sessions in FA (Carney to follow?)

 

For this year, going back to the efficiency I was talking about from last year:  Love will most likely improve from his rookie season, hopefully Brewer will too (it's technically still his second season), and maybe there will be less pressure on Big Al with Flynn and an outside shooter who actually shoots in Ellington. We can only hope that those two are also efficient scorers, if not this year, then next. In the past, Big Al has not been an efficient scorer in the past, but I believe that is partially because he has been consistently double and triple teamed and also because he was asked to shoot more than he should have been. We also have Gomes coming back who we know what he brings to the table. Average efficiency with whatever volume you ask of him. Also, with Gomes at SF and Brewer at SG, we would probably be one of the top 5 rebounding teams in the league (and I don't think Flynn is any rebounding chump for a PG). In TOs per 36 minutes, we lost our top 6 (assuming Brown doesn't play), so that is good news! Assuming Flynn can control his TOs better than he did in the summer league, we should be a lot better off there as well. From these three numbers (shooting efficiency, rebounding, turnovers), we can deduce that our team will possibly improve by quite a decent amount this year even with a loss of talent. I believe our new coach will also help to improve these numbers and hopefully even our team defensive ratings.

Here are some things that focus on the contributions players make besides their basketball ability.From a  monetary perspective, a nice thing that can be said of our roster is that apart from our expiring contracts and Songaila, we really don't have any players that are well above their deserved pay range. Then again, taking away those players we are left with only six other players and our Euros. Still, those eight are some very nice building blocks. We have some great leadership potential in Flynn coming in. Whether he is a star or a backup some day, he will still be a very good locker room guy. We have a poor man's version of a glue guy in Ryan Gomes and a nice defensive stopper for 1-3s in Brewer. Hopefully Brewer can replace Gomes as the glue guy AND defensive stopper though as ideally, one guy could cover both of those categories. We have our knock down shooter in-the-making in Ellington. What we lack that all contenders have includes: a team identity, team defense, team cohesiveness, a true number one option, and... well... a coaching staff.

Of course no analysis would be complete without a discussion on Rubio. First of all, the advantages and disadvantages with him being here or not being here. If he were to come this year: we would get immediate gratification, he would have a year to fit in with the team and see if the Flubio experiment could work, he would get to adjust to the NBA game sooner rather than later, and ticket/jersey sales would increase. The disadvantages: his contract is up sooner and he might leave sooner, he would take development minutes away from Flynn and Ellington, less anticipation, and we would have a better record and worse pick next year (maybe). The advantages if he doesn't come: we get a better look at him (maybe he doesn't develop and we never have to pay him), he is older and better when he does finally come here, we have him at his prime, and we get a better draft pick and a better look at Flynn and Ellington. The disadvantages: we don't know how he will fit with Flynn, our team would start growing without one of the main pieces, hype dies down among casual fans, and less income for Glen. We all talk about saving money in these trades, but how often do MN fans get to talk about how a player might get to bring money in to the organization? Ticket sales and jersey sales are obviously boosted the second Rubio comes over. Our international exposure is also increased and the likelihood of our players making allstar appearances increases (think Houston). Even our national exposure will increase when Rubio arrives. Seriously, how many people out of MN do you see walking around in Wolves jerseys? Even KG had trouble bridging that gap.

Speaking of national exposure, that's another area of Kahn's job so far that he has helped us with. Before Kahn, MN was a team that you did not want to go to. The national media had us pegged as a disaster team with Memphis and LAC. Now there is something else to talk about. The Wolves are becoming relevant again. I know we all complain about how we are perceived by media, but I have read a few articles lately that make us sound kind of good. Like we are getting somewhere and now we are being recognized for it. Here's the kicker though: We haven't actually gotten anywhere yet! That's at least worth taking on Songaila's contract next year by itself. That being said, Kahn has had a certain amount of luck on his side. At least, so far it's luck. Maybe it won't be if Rubio turns out to be the worst player drafted in the top 10. He's also lucky that our expectations are so low. But what he has done is gotten us Kurt Rambis. A coach with a resume for once! He has also give us a concrete plan that he has so far followed through with. He gave us Flynn who the rookies are saying could be runner up for ROY and he already is the best playmaker of the draft, with Jennings being the only one anywhere close to him (check out NBA.com, they have their annual rookie survey and Flynn sounds pretty good in there). Speaking of luck, the Wolves have NEVER moved up in the draft lottery. Considering how many times we have been so close to the bottom, that's crazy! We even dropped two spots into Laettner when Shaq and Zo were available... who else thinks it's about time the Wolves get some lottery luck? Let's hope Kahn cahn bring it to us! This post is getting long so maybe I will do another post about the possibilities if we lucked into Wall or Favors.

 

I was planning on going past where we are to where we could be, but I feel like this is long as is, so maybe I will just do it in a separate post based on the response to this one, I can always combine the posts later. Which of you that actually made it all the way through think that I should keep this post updated as trades go and as we figure out for sure what we will get from the players we acquired and what we lost from the ones who left? Thanks for reading and please please please leave some thoughtful and helpful analysis and ideas to update or alter places where I might have been lead astray.

That being said, how about we just trade Big Al back to Boston for KG and a thank you card for the championship. Trade Rubio's rights to Houston for Battier and Brooks. Ship Flynn and Utah's pick off to Detroit for Rip Hamilton.Sign Bowen and Iverson to short term deals. And make a push this year? Our starters would be A.I, Rip, Battier, Love, KG with Gomes, Brooks, Bowen, Hollins, Pekovic, and Ellington coming off the bench. Think we got enough expirings to get it done?!

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Comments

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Great post!

How much time did that take?

by KGMN on Aug 20, 2009 8:28 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Haha thanks

It took quite a while… but I spread it out over a couple days of writing.
I have a hard time believing that you read it all in 2 minutes though ;-)

by Mplax on Aug 20, 2009 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We can't do any of the trades that you wrote, although I'm sure you were kidding.

Also, Rubio should be coming to Minnesota this year, and are you seriously going to write more?

by KGMN on Aug 20, 2009 8:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I was most definitely kidding

Although most of them could be done if we included an expiring into the deal.
Yeah I plan on writing more about the future (meaning up to next years draft and FA) and how we will possibly/probably fill the holes we have, what types of players we will target in FA and what kind in the draft. I also wanted to find some players who might be underrated/underutilized by their teams who we might be able to get on the cheap or maybe some teams that are most likely headed towards rebuilding and if they might send a guy this way for a piece or two. I plan on keeping up to date with this stuff and updating it as circumstances change and as the Wolves and other teams prove me wrong (or right!).
Got any ideas to add, things I missed, or things I may have gotten wrong in my hastiness?

by Mplax on Aug 20, 2009 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm. You covered basically everything.

How about what we’re going to do with our European players (Pekovic, Mavrokefalidis, Norel).

by KGMN on Aug 20, 2009 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I will add that to the list!

Although I don’t think the last two will matter much anywhere in the future. Also, you forgot about Rubio! :-p

by Mplax on Aug 20, 2009 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I purposely forgot about Rubio because I think he's coming.

Possibily D-Leaguers, but I really don’t think we’ll use any players from the Skyforce.

by KGMN on Aug 20, 2009 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks!

And yeah, I agree about D-Leaguers. Usually only use the ones you send there from the draft. Usually.

by Mplax on Aug 20, 2009 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

When are we finally going to sign Rodney Carney?

It’s taking so long and he played really well last season.

by KGMN on Aug 20, 2009 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

But he certainly isn’t crucial to the team’s success. I just think it would be nice to round out the roster and give us an athletic guy who would fit in well with the up-tempo system.
Could be a big pay off though if he improves. He has so much athleticism (poor mans Rudy Gay).
Hopefully more people will comment some other time. This is kind of a slow time for posts on all topics.

by Mplax on Aug 20, 2009 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Count the roster slots

then consider if paying Carney is also worth paying Bobby Brown to leave.

by levi_mn on Aug 21, 2009 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They won't resign carney

They want to get a real good look at Brewer, Ellington and Gomes. That is going to be some serious playing time for those players. If someone gets hurt…they will just sign a minimum salary vet to fill in when they need a body.

by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 21, 2009 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There will be some serious minutes to be had

But they don’t all need 30+ minutes a piece. Especially Ellington. There is the rookie wall that will come sooner rather than later if we really are an up-tempo team. Also, that is why I said that I think there will be a large correlation between Wilkins leaving and Carney coming.
And yes Levi, I would much rather “invest” an extra 700,000 in Carney to insure that Bobby Brown doesn’t get any minutes with us.

by Mplax on Aug 21, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wally's brother
as a replacement for Wally Szczerbiak’s youth pastor brother (not really…) who is always at the Target Center talking during breaks and trying to convince me to gouge my ears out with my straw. Seriously, anyone else know who I am talking about and agree?

What is the story with that? Now we know Glen didn’t fire the scouts who drafted Wally Szczerbiak; he put them in charge of in-game entertainment. Wait. “Entertainment.” There.

(Actually that guy is among the least obnoxious, overamped aspects of my NBA experience last year as a season ticket holder. It’s mostly that the resemblance is uncanny.)

by feral on Aug 21, 2009 7:41 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

yeah that Wally guy bugs me, although I wouldn’t mind if they kept his female partner though. They could have her walk the court in a bikini hold a placard between quarters…like a boxing match. No speaking roles though please.

by DougW on Aug 21, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Least obnoxious, overamped?!

Interesting how different our perspectives were. I felt like every time he should start talking about how great God is. That just seemed to be his role in life.
I would agree with DougW about the bikini idea, but we already have some crappy TWolves dancers (they seemed to have gotten better this year though!) to take care of that.

by Mplax on Aug 21, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with feral...

I loathe the music much more than that guy. Seriously, get something that will pump the players up and was released in this decade.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Aug 21, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wish I was a baller, I wish I was taller!!!!!!

Yeah! You don’t like that song?! Oh man!
Can’t even pretend, that song annoys the living shit out of me. Still, I would rather listen to that song for 3 minutes per game than Wally2 every game break.

by Mplax on Aug 21, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But.. It’s Jock Jams.. it’s made for this stuff!

Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.

by Xand1 on Aug 21, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just the sound level

When the arena’s dead, I like hearing witticisms shouted down from the tickets I can afford. So long as the language isn’t too blue, let ‘em “cheer.” That’s part of the bleacher bum code.

The songs and the volume of the PA music would sterilize small animals at 50 yards.

by feral on Aug 21, 2009 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Those two (Wally and generic Entertainment Tonight-type woman) are local wanna-be actors/“personalities”—I believe they are on the CW (TV network) locally, too.

They did a big feature on the Wally guy in the Southwest Journal (So Mpls free paper) like two years ago when he was one of Cosmo’s Sexiest Bachelors (I think that’s what it’s called…I am not a regular Cosmo reader). I never got the Jesus-loving vibe from him though…

The music is more frustrating than even those two. I get embarassed to hear, like “Rockin’ Robin”?! Forget released this decade…I’d settle for released during my lifetime…

by PDGirl on Aug 21, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really?!

What do they actually do on the CW? I’ve never seen them, that could be kind of interesting to see.

I never realized the youth pastor vibe either until a friend of mine pointed it out, he had always annoyed me, but now it’s even worse. I don’t hate religion by any means, I just don’t like youth pastors and he reminds me of one now. I’m not saying he is religious at all, he just talks like a guy you would meet at a church camp….all excited about the prospect of telling you all about it… I don’t know, ignore my annoyance with the guy.

I do enjoy the song Rockin’ Robin, but yeah….at a basketball game?! Maybe it’s cuz Kevin Love Tweets…“tweets, tweets”? I still just hate that Baller song.

by Mplax on Aug 21, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

McCants addition?

In talking about Rashad last year, I think you pretty much have to mention his “Dawdling around after warm-ups in order to slowly, slowly proceed down to the end of the bench, showing up the coaching staff” routine. He was in a serious sulk for much of the year.

by feral on Aug 21, 2009 7:43 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but it's ok

Because Shaddy would have been better off if he was the coach.

by Mplax on Aug 21, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow are we thin on the wing

It’s sentences like

Corey Brewer starts the season off as our starting SG, but if he starts producing he will start at SF with Ellington taking over as starting SG assuming he pans out to be a solid player.

that make me realize how sparse the talent is our there. And the contingency plan, as you say, is a reshuffle of the same talent. It’s like the three ingredients at Taco Bell; if you order something different, they just assemble them in a different order….

by feral on Aug 21, 2009 7:46 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Haha

I like the Taco Bell comparison. Never realized how true that is. Although their quesadillas are different! Kind of….
And yeah, the talent is definitely sparse, which is why Wilkins will end up getting minutes and Pecherov will probably play some 3. But we have Gomes, who believe it or not is an asset right now. He can play some big minutes for us and he probably will throughout the year. He won’t be great for us, but he will be consistent, and that’s something!

by Mplax on Aug 21, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hehe that’s from an Onion article from like 10 years ago. “Taco Bell rearranges same 5 ingredients in new way!” Love it.

And yeah we’re incredibly thin on the wing. All in due time my friends, all in due time.. You gotta think that weakness will be addressed via our impressive cap flexibility or our excellent stash of picks next year. Just imagine how it will be with Evan Turner and Gerald Wallace or some similar mix of players on the wing.. It’ll have been worth the wait.

Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.

by Xand1 on Aug 21, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Onion, gotta love it!

And yeah, that might be coming in my next post on this that I talked about: Where we go from here. I will probably go through FA, trades (some that include our 2 PGs and our 2 bigs and what we could get for one or two of them), draft picks, etc.
And KGMN gave me the idea of trying to look at what we are going to do with our Euro prospects. Or since I really have no idea, what we could do.

by Mplax on Aug 21, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

where do the rankings range from

Is there a score that denotes starter quality?

by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 21, 2009 9:11 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

No

I basically just made up a “video game” type ranking that goes from 00 (Crunch) to 100. I guess I would have to say that there is no starter quality limit, but there probably is some type of number that all five would have to add up to in order to contend with a couple multipliers for the coach, team unity and other numbers that you can’t measure from the players. That being said, I would think we probably don’t want anyone under 75 starting for us when we are contending. Then again, I would rank Bowen about 70 overall, but he fit a tremendous role on defense and 3pt shooting more like an 85 or 90. So I guess my point is that it depends on role as well.

by Mplax on Aug 21, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

if we are going to get accurate

about it though, you have to factor in a base score and an intangibles score for how much they improve teammates or hang them out to dry. This is exactly why Bowen was starting…he made their team better with his complementary skills. Love has this in abundance when it comes to rebounding and outlet passes…if he can get the whole pnr defense down…lookout.

by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 21, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah if you can figure out a way to get more accurate I will incorporate it

But like I said, they were just rough estimates based upon how good of a player they are in a 5 on 5 setting. Bowen is not a great ballplayer and will never be a star (obviously…he’s kinda old), but he filled a need for the Spurs like a star. Apart from defense and 3pt shooting from the corner, he was a marginal talent at best.
I guess I put a base somewhere around 50 though. I tried not to put anyone below that, and if I did there is no question about it that they are not an NBA level talent. 50 and above there is at least some question left.

by Mplax on Aug 21, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ranking step one

Main Rank Comment
100 Super Star in prime with no holes in game.
95 Super Star in prime with small holes in game.
90 All-Star Player
85 Potential All-Star Player (Needs a little work)
80 Above Average Starter (All-Star Potential…but raw)
75 Average Starter (Baseline ranking)
70 Below Avg Starter/Above Avg Role Player
65 Average Role Player
60 Spot Specialist, few minutes a game.
55 Super raw player…pet project?
50 Player who doesn’t see floor…there for locker room presence
45 How in the hell did he get a contract player
 Working on other two steps now.

by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 21, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Step 2 ranking

Trajectory Comment
++ Player is dramatically improving (high ceiling)
+ Player is quickly improving (rounding out skills, lower ceiling)
+= Player is slightly improving but almost at ceiling
= Player is at their prime.
=- Player is at end of prime…starting to low half a step/durability
- Player is slowing loosing either speed and/or durability
— Player is wasting away in front of your eyes.
working on last one now.

by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 21, 2009 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Step 3...maybe 4?

Team Rank Comment
A Players skillset allows teammates to play well above normal level
B Player can slightly improve teammates abilities
C Player doesn’t improve/hinder teammates play (no problems or gifts)
D Player slightly hinders teammates abilities
F Player constantly hurts his teammates performance

This criteria should really be done for both offensive and defensive and is highly subjective to who is on the team at the time. A team full of scorers wouldn’t value a 6th man with big scoring and no D off the bench…but may really value the defensive glue guy, etc. These are the most common areas where two teams can trade and it seems to really work for both sides.

by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 21, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks a ton!

Thats almost exactly what I was thinking for the ,-,= except I added = and -= just to be a little more detailed. The team rank comment would be a tough one to get right, but if we could it would be a tremendous help in being able to accurately value other teams’ players and more so our players (could potentially help us see past our homerism if we don’t use homerism in the ranking that is).
As for the first ranking, what you said pretty much fits in line with what I ranked them as so we must be on the same page or a similar one there! I thought about doing an offense and a defense ranking, but figured that would be extremely difficult especially with all the guys I really don’t know much about.
I’ll try to incorporate this in within the next day or two, in the mean time, do you have any suggestions for some of the players? The White Hole would probably be a D or an F from what I hear and from what the nickname suggests, but at the same time I kind of want to give a guy a chance before I give him a ranking like that. And another question, do we give them a “trajectory” for thsi ranking as well for how they seem to be improving as a team player?

by Mplax on Aug 21, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

we could probably

give them a + or = to indicate whether it is an area we expect to either improve or stay the same. Either that or we can use lowercase letters to indicate that there is area for growth, so
A, B C, D, F for full potential….and a, b, c, d, f for current level but with potential improvements.

Working on the listing of the other ranks right now.

by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 21, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

drum roll please

Pos. Player Base Future Off Def
PG Jonny Flynn 75 + B C
PG Chucky Atkins 60 - D B/C
PG Bobby Brown 55 += D D
SG Wayne Ellington 70 += C C
SG/SF Corey Brewer 70 +/+ D A
SG/SF Damien Wilkins 60 = D C/D
SF/PF Ryan Gomes 70 = C/D C/D
SF/C Oleksiy Pecherov 60 += C/D F
PF Brian Cardinal 60 — D C
PF/C Kevin Love 80 + B C/D
PF/C Al Jefferson 85 + A/B C/D
PF/C Darius Songaila 65 = C C
C Ryan Hollins 60 + D B
C Mark Blount 60 — D B
PG Ricky Rubio 75 ++ B B

Latest news is that a deal may have been reached for Rubio….and after watching the Spain/Great Britain game…rubio can definitely guard the 2 in a year or so, which means it is more and more likely that Flynn and Rubio with play together in select situations (not base offense, but at least 5-10 minutes a game).

by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 21, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My only question is

Do you think that Pecherov is the only player in history that played SF/C? Haha
So is the letter rating based on their talent or how they help the team? I’d give Flynn ++ considering he has never played an NBA game before and he was drafted #6.

by Mplax on Aug 21, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

whoops

Flynn was supposed to get ++ (missed that one). Other than that, since the wolves roster is nowhere near set, I just added some basic offensive and defensive comparisons between the players and leaque average. I used positions PER compared to team position averages across the league from 82games.com. I had to just guess for Flynn, Ellington and Rubio…but with no stats…what can you do? In order to rate them on how they help the team, there needs to be a difinitive starting block of players…that way you can grade the complementary players once you know what the team needs.

by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 23, 2009 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't think to use PER

Good call on that. I’ll probably update this again in the first month or two of the season when we can finally get a really good read, not just on how the players we know about were last year, but about how the players are different and better/worse with Rambis and also how everyone new and old works together.

by Mplax on Aug 23, 2009 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good system and ratings

I agree. So what do you think the ratings of last year’s team at the end of the year and compare to current roster?

by PoohRichardson on Aug 22, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's a decrease in talent...

No doubt. But do the trades establish more of a pecking order and defined roles? The most frustrating things about watching Miller, McCants, and Foye were that they tried to make plays that weren’t there or that they hadn’t been prepared to make. Guys like Flynn, Love, and Jefferson (and Rubio if he comes) would have a looser leash when it comes to this, but there’s no reason they can’t give all of the players more defined roles as long as those roles enhance their development and the team’s future development.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Aug 21, 2009 11:24 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Rubio on his way...(?)

You guys hear this interview with Rambis? He indicates the Rubio signing is almost a done deal as they have raised enough external sponsorship money.

http://www.am570radio.com/cc-common/podcast/single_podcast.html?podcast=petrosmoney.xml

(scroll down to the 8/13 interview)

by DougW on Aug 21, 2009 11:57 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The interview is worth a separate Fan Post

Life as an incoming coach
Coaching staff decisions
Rubio collecting endorsements
Evaluation of Corey Brewer
Impression of Ellington

by levi_mn on Aug 21, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was pretty insightful...

Was bored enough last night to read the Strib message board and someone actually had a good post with that link.

Feel free to run with it if you like. I can’t do it justice…with my preference for three sentence posts filled with grammatical errors.

by DougW on Aug 21, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

sponsorship money...

You know it was always kind of a no-brainer that they could raise sponsorship money. I would assume there has got to be several sponsors that committed to multi-year deals with the Wolves and/or Target Center…and I would imagine most are regretting that decision when they look at the attendance and tv viewership numbers. Even in this economy, it just makes sense to kick in a little more to help bring in a guy that is assured to create incremental interest in the team.

The whole will/he won’t he drama was just inevitable posturing to get DKV to lower the buyout.

by DougW on Aug 21, 2009 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately it's kind of old news now (The Rubio part)

That was over a week ago, but it is still nice to hear what he said about Ellington and Brewer. Everything else I feel like we already knew or assumed or has changed?
I did enjoy hearing his compliments of Ellington and what he said makes me think he will fit in nicely with an up-tempo team. “Never got tired” or something like that, that’s nice to hear! Brutal honesty about Brewer not being a star, but possibly being a good defensive role player.

by Mplax on Aug 21, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And a counterpoint to Elastico's ode to Corey

The important part to me (and perhaps most of us) is the difference in evaluation between Rambis and McHale. The caveat is that McHale (and crew, we must assume) selected Brewer based on his NCAA performance, while Rambis is speaking from a viewpoint tempered by Corey’s performance in the NBA.

For what it’s worth, Rambis echoes the evaluation that I arrived at after just a few games into Brewer’s career with the Wolves.

by levi_mn on Aug 21, 2009 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

To be fair

McHale said at the time they drafted him that one of the reasons was that he “does all of the little things,” and there aren’t any clear stars drafted after him.

That said, I wanted Noah at the time and still think he was the best choice, and I agree with Rambis’ assessment because it’s more detailed and doesn’t fluff up Brewer’s potential.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Aug 22, 2009 1:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure, maybe a Top Ten draft choice should be a star.

But McHale never seemed like a draft guru, eh?

How much “credit” for dubious picks should be attributed to McHale and how much to the staff is an open question in my mind.

by levi_mn on Aug 22, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

True

I wish there were enough interest for a publisher to underwrite a book about the KG-era Wolves. I find good behind-the-scenes basketball books (Breaks of the Game, 7 Seconds or Less, The Jordan Rules) to be fascinating, and hearing what really went on with my favorite team would be a treat.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Aug 22, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How to make $1M a year working less than 3 hours a day

by Kevin McHale

Seriously, I don’t think you can say enough about McHale’s lack of hunger in the GM and later coaching jobs. McHale basically took the job because it was handed to him and seemed like a “sweet gig”…and that’s pretty much the way he treated it. Lazy scouting, refusing to deal with agents he didn’t like, never exploring creative trades…it was basically a part time job, for a guy who had already accomplished a lot and made a lot of money as a player.

Kahn is really the anti McHale…he has everything to prove, and seems to be working hard to make that happen.

by DougW on Aug 22, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree totally

What would McHale’s legacy be if he had the eighth pick in 1995? instead of the 5th pick (not sure the year is right, talking about KG).
Don’t forget his attitude about 1st round picks. Basically, if they weren’t top-5 they were meaningless. Hence, Wally Z. over Rip, Paul Grant, and Will Avery!

by Rumblebee on Aug 22, 2009 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You should love "Top Of The World" by Peter May

http://www.hoopsaddict.com/book-review-top-of-the-world/

The Celtics go from worst to first. I read some pages online the other day…gotta find a copy.

by levi_mn on Aug 22, 2009 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks

I’ll probably check that one out. A couple of years ago a Wolves blogger (I think it was Stephen Litel) was supposedly working on a Wolves/KG book, but it’s not surprising it stalled.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Aug 22, 2009 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't get it

How did this make it to the front page? OK, it’s long, and it took a lot of time to prepare, and …

by Dave T on Aug 21, 2009 2:05 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

because it actually

tries to summarize the offseason changes and formulate it into an expectation for next year. Everything else has been pretty piecemeal and/or focused on singular roster related issues.

by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 21, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bobby Brown

It seems everyone on this board has their mind made up about this guy, but I’m not so sure. I saw him play twice here in Sacramento last year (vs MIN on 12/15 and vs TOR on 12/26), and couldn’t help thinking “Who is this guy?!” Granted, he is sort of a local (CSU – Fullerton product) and fan favorite who comes off the end of the bench, but the dude had some RANGE. His shooting percentages are comparable to Bassy (read: not that great), but he did get 6 assists vs the TWolves. I’m definitely not saying he should start, but, to me, it’s not outside the realm of possibility to be worked into the rotation as a no-defense, mini instant-offense sort of guy – a la poor man’s Eddie House or McCants.

by Boss10 on Aug 21, 2009 4:45 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I guess my issue with Bobby Brown is

that he is an end-of-the-bench player at best. And I guess if I want an instant offense guy, I would want someone who can score with some sort of efficiency. If you look at his ORtg and DRtg for his career, he is -22 per 100 possessions and this is against backups. I guess I just think that I would rather pay the veteran’s minimum for a guy who can contribute when we get to that point. I guess what I am saying is there is a reason Brown picked up his player option and it’s not because it’s a generous contract.

by Mplax on Aug 21, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't fault Bobby for making a sound financial decision

The Kings gave him the contract, he came to the Wolves when McHale threw out McCants and Booth.

And like Boss10 sez, he’s really not that bad.

  http://www.nba.com/kings/news/kings_sign_bobby_brown.html
  http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Bobby-Brown-561/
  http://jonesonthenba.com/2008/07/i-hate-to-say-i-told-you-so.html

I’d certainly like a lot more NBA experience in my backup PG,
but Bobby did spend four years in college and a season in
Germany.

I’m not going gaga, but at the moment, Chucky Atkins is the
other option. I hope the Wolves have the time to let Rambis
make the evaluation, not the bean counters.

by levi_mn on Aug 21, 2009 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

nice concise assessment of the Rubio situation... and others

Nicely written. One of the fairer assessments of last year’s team. I do think, however, that Miller’s still role remains underappreciated. While his shooting was slightly lower than career average, both his rebounds and assists were up substantially (i.e. 30% higher). Wages of Wins has him with a higher WS than Kobe… indeed, second in the league in per 36 (48?… sorry: I shouldn’t be so lazy!). On a team that’s rebuilding you’d want a veteran to be feeding your young PG’s and SG’s so that they can develop their moves in game time… and that’s basically what Miller did, and in spades. Hardwood Paradoxm has him as the most unselfish player in the league… not bad for a guy with two ailing ankles almost all season.

The big problem I have with the comparison of the two teams is court maturity: where the hell are we going to get the 240 MPG out of the present lot? There were some simply heroic minutes logged last year by several players in the midst of limiting injuries and a depleted roster. McHale did a very serviceable job with juggling lineups but I think most fans just don’t appreciate how difficult this is. As an example, SnP suggests that Hollins can put in up to 20 minutes, but no other coach has ever wanted him out there that long… not even for 10 minutes. What minutes do we give Ellington until it hurts too badly? … and then who do we put out there to replace him? These are guys who are going up against opponents’ starting teams for a significant portion of their playing time, if current minute projections are to be believed.

A big plus for the TWolves has been – and will be – Jonny Flynn. While I love his upbeat personality, I think you have him seriously overrated. The guy has yet to play an NBA game and the rating by rookies is also an assessment by guys who have yet to play an NBA game. In my opinion, a nice comparison would be with Blake Ahearn.

~ “Blake Ahearn? Who the f*ck is Blake Ahearn?”

Exactly… You see, most fans don’t even remember that far back, but Ahearn is a young PG (6’2" and 210 lb.) who basically was tearing up the Summer League just two seasons ago. He also showed a lot of promise – good assists and 7.6 Pts in 11MPG in the TWolves pre-season – but was waived for that other eminently forgettable PG Kevin Ollie by Randy Wittman. (Ahearn went on to have a very decent year with high minutes in the D-League and was a co-MVP in their All Star game.)

Sorry to let you all in on it, but in comparison Flynn is seriously undersized both in height and weight and will require some SERIOUS swagger to overcome this. While he has upside I feel a more accurate rating right now is 60 or 65++, substantially less than Randy Foye. The ++ is not to be underappreciated, however.

In general I also have serious doubts about comments on any player’s defensive abilities. Other than physical and mobility stats it’s all very subjective. For example, there’ve been many posts here about how Big Al is slow footed and generally inept, and that except for rebounds the TWolves defence in the paint sucked last year. However, looking at highlights of Jefferson show he’s anything but slow-footed … and the game stats that are available actually tell a different story: the TWolves interior of Big Al, K-Love and Rhino actually dominated the opposition in points in the paint last season; it was in perimeter defence where the TWolves sucked. (SnP had a post on this some time back.)

Some of the opinion no doubt comes from erroneously generalizing out of what stands out visually for us. For example, I do remember KLove standing flat-footed in several games last year while a driving opponent blew by him… but KG often did the same and yet managed a Defensive Player of the Year in Boston… meaning you’ve got to know when it’s worth the effort and when it’s not. (Incidentally, this is shaping up to be a problem with Hollins and foul trouble.)

Anyway, Mplax, in general a very nice opinion piece and attempt at a fair evaluation. Thanks!

by artreddin on Aug 21, 2009 10:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Good except...

For Flynn/Ahearn. I’m not saying his summer league performance should be a great indicator of what he’ll become, but the 20-year-old Flynn played better than the 24-year-old Ahearn in that league: Flynn shot 48% and averaged 7.5 assists per game while Ahearn shot 44% and averaged 1.5 assists per game in 3 fewer minutes per game. I watched both seasons, and it was pretty obvious that Ahearn was a volume shooter who didn’t get his teammates involved while Flynn could attack the rim at will and not only make the easy pass but the highlight-reel one. That’s not including Flynn’s significant advantages with quickness/speed/jumping ability/strength; that’s based on observation, but those look obvious. If Ahearn was really as good as Flynn, he would have more than 15 career games in 2 years (12 of them with the tanking 07-08 Heat). Flynn’s no shorter than Telfair and is much stronger with a much-better vertical. That’s not even biased; I could take any of the first-round PGs from this year and make a similar argument for them.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Aug 22, 2009 2:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and the PPG?

Yes, they are two different types of players. My point, however, was never that Ahearn is/was better than Flynn; it’s that each of them made a big splash in the summer league (Ahearn mostly through racking up a lot of points via the 3 ball where % obviously will be a bit lower)… and we both know what happened with Ahearn afterwards.

To talk then of Flynn’s “quickness/speed/jumping ability/strength” as being NBA strength is just so much speculation. The guy gives up 2" and 25 lbs. of muscle on Ahearn, and while Telfair gets crapped on for being too small at PG, Flynn gets a free pass.

The bottom line: while I hope that Flynn proves out to be everything that people – in their optimism – predict him to be, right now he is an unproven quantity and clearly not yet deserving of a 75++.

by artreddin on Aug 22, 2009 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am forced to agree with PSR here

I see the comparison, but at the same time I just can’t lump Flynn in there with Ahearn. I agree I probably overrated Flynn too, but it’s a rough estimate based off of what I think will happen and I think Flynn will prove himself a solid talent this year (also remember its rounded, so I probably would have put him on the under side of 75). But, it probably wouldn’t hurt to compromise and knock him down to a 70. As for 25lbs of muscle, I think Ahearn probably has 5 lbs of muscle on him and 20lbs of baby fat.
I completely agree on Miller and I can readily admit I am underrating him. That being said, I do think he is on the downside of his career and I wish he had shot more when he came here. Sometimes a greedy player can help the team when that player can shoot 40% from the arc. I enjoyed his enthusiasm and his appreciation of being here, I just wish he did more than hustle. Both would have been nice, who says you can’t shoot and hustle?! I guess my problem with him is the whole “what could have been?”
Also agree on Al being a better defensive player than given credit for. We should hopefully see that this year with some better perimeter defense like you said, but I still don’t think he is quite average. You can tell when he takes his D to another level though like he did with Duncan last year. So much there I just wish he would use it! Hopefully Rambis can give him pointers on how to rotate better (along with the rest of the team) for some help defense guarding a man or altering a shot. He has all the tools, just not the coaching or the motivation. McHale nourished his offense, but couldn’t teach him or motivate him towards proper defense.

Thank you very much for the feedback though, it should help make my update and my part 2 better (coming sometime towards the middle of next week, gonna be gone for a few days). Please read and let me know what you think of Part 2! Thanks again.

by Mplax on Aug 22, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd be pretty comfortable

with a 70 or so ranking as the base for both Flynn and Rubio. I was being slightly subjective in my evaluations of the rookies…because they are in fact rookies. The compensating fact is that they (assuming Ricky comes over) will get substantially above average PT and develop much quicker…as that is how the organization will be run. So I tried to not take a ranking as of day one too seriously and slightly project their current season progress. I don’t really worry about Flynn’s height because of his speed and the fact that the NBA will want their CPesque players to shine. I am not saying that Flynn will be CP3 pt 2. But his style of play and flash make him fun to watch and create interest (which makes the NBA lots of money) and the league will want to enable him to do just that. We as fans always overlook the fact that the league is a business. If a players playing style can generate $$$$, then don’t worry about the traditional drawbacks…the league will alter the rules to allow players like that to succeed.

by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 23, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

To an extent I agree,

but they also know that fans want a good game and not just a good performance. But yeah I agree with the CP3 comparison from what I have seen so far. In style and size, not talent level. I won’t make that comparison….yet! The advantage that Flynn has over CP3 is that he is more athletic in terms of strength and possibly speed, Paul has the quicks though.
The PT will probably be pretty close to average if Rubio comes over, otherwise Flynn will definitely lead all rookies in minutes.

by Mplax on Aug 23, 2009 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

His rating is too high

But comparing the two is somewhat silly. Ahearn was an undrafted 24-year-old who had NBA experience and a roster spot at stake. Flynn was a 20-year-old rookie whose roster spot was assured and could afford to make mistakes. There’s a huge difference in age and goals there.

Physically, Flynn was measured at 196 lbs. at the pre-draft camp (30 lbs heavier than Telfair), while Ahearn’s listed on basketball-reference.com at 195, so unless you have a different number for Ahearn or have weighed them both personally, I don’t know where the 25-lb difference is coming from. I know Flynn is shorter, but he has a 6’4 wingspan and the highest vertical of all players at the pre-draft camp (40"). Those are real numbers, not just speculation.

I get where you’re going with this, but I watched both play in summer league, and here’s one big difference, a difference reflected in the stats: passing ability. Even when Foye was winning summer league MVP two years ago, he wasn’t showing the drive-and-kick ability or the foul-drawing ability that Flynn did.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Aug 22, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the comparison was meant as a warning

…for people not to go overboard on extrapolating from Summer League, that’s all. Not a comparison of the two players per se.

I wasn’t aware of the weight stat on Flynn… NBA Draft still has him at 185 lb. http://www.nba.com/draft2009/prospects/140.html so if he’s got more meat on the bones that’s all for the better. It can make a serious difference.

Here’s a more recent shot of Ahearn (the old D-League photo is seriously dorky). Not much baby fat there (Mplax’s comment), but that’s hardly surprising when a player’s logging 38 MPG logged (and 22 PPG) over the past season.

I wish all the best for Flynn, and your comments make me a bit more optimistic. Nevertheless, for some of us at least, reason for optimism is hard to come by as we head into the pre-season.

by artreddin on Aug 22, 2009 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've jumped on the Flynn-Wagon!

I was confused when we drafted him, but the more I have seen of the guy and researched the guy the more I like him. On and off the court. All I can say is that I am excited!

by Mplax on Aug 22, 2009 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough

I don’t want my optimism to cross that line into homerism. It’s just a lot easier to stick up for Flynn after watching him play than it was to justify moves like Jaric-for-Cassell or Roy-for-Foye when the visuals weren’t matching the bloated praise from the front office.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Aug 22, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Flynn could have higher upside than Jefferson and Love...

IMO, the guy could be a multi season all star. And I was seriously doubting him as a #6. But after seeing him slice up the summer league and seeing him in interviews (the guy oozes confidence, without being cocky and is very bright)…I am a believer.

The size thing is not really an issue…he is the same height (or taller) and much more athletic that Chris Paul. He has the wing span, strength and hops to score on and defend smaller players. Probably even more importantly, the guy has a ton of heart.

by DougW on Aug 22, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is why Kahn was BRILLIANT...

..drafting Rubio and Flynn. One or the other will probably be an All-Star, or near All-Star. Which one, who knows, but the Wolves got one of them!

by Rumblebee on Aug 22, 2009 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What impressed me most...

Was his ability to draw contact at the rim without getting his shot blocked and to make both the easy passes and the highlight-reel-type passes. I don’t think he’s Marbury, but he’s not Foye (the PG version of Foye), either.

by pagingstanleyroberts on Aug 22, 2009 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't wanna say anything on Flynn except I'm glad we got him...

But I will join with you in appreciating Ahearn. I think he’d be better as a 3rd PG than Brown or other alternatives.

by timmuggs on Aug 22, 2009 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

image not loading

Really sorry if I’m repeating here. It’s just that I can’t get the image in the above commentary to load on my computer this morning so I suspect most of you will be in the same situation. Try this one instead:

Again, “sorry!” to those who now have two identical images for something that was a minor point anyway…sigh!

by artreddin on Aug 24, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ahearn, Brown, and McHale

October 23 2008
Waived McHale guard Blake Ahearn, forward Chris Richard and center David Harrison.

February 19 2009
Traded guard Rashad McCants and center Calvin Booth to the Sacramento Kings for guard Bobby Brown and center Shelden Williams.

by levi_mn on Aug 21, 2009 11:03 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Defense

After reading the post, I’m actually pumped to see what our D looks like this year. Now that we don’t have Foye, Miller, McCants and Bassie we might actually be able to stop somebody. I think that Brewer can at least develop into a Trenton Hassell type defender, even if his offense doesn’t come around. Fylnn plays with a lot of energy and I can’t see him letting people just run around him. Hollins should be able to shore up the front court (at least be able to inject some D there when we need it). And if Rubio comes over I can see him shutting down some 1’s and 2’s, or at least frustrating them with occasional steals. Either way I don’t see our D being the laughing stock of the league anymore.

by Fylnntastic! on Aug 22, 2009 10:08 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I would wait a year before expecting that good D though

Coach has to work with the players and we have 2 (3?) rooks who are generally known to have poor defensive seasons their first 82 games out. And then there’s the rookie wall. That’s gonna hurt us (or help us if we want a draft pick!), like I said sooner rather than later with the up-tempo games.
But yes, down the road it should be exciting to see how Rambis can help us develop our defensive game. Team defense is bigger to me than individual though and in the past we have lacked both…. now we at least have some individual defenders on the perimeter (especially if Brewer moves to the 2) and we have a coach who is known for his defense… right?

by Mplax on Aug 22, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like your stuff.

I do feel your expections of Ellington are too big. He’s a nice shooter but that doesn’t make him Reggie Miller/Ray Allen (not saying that you’re saying he is). For as good a fit as he is I’m having a hard time believing he could be a starter. I think he could be a nice 9th-10th man, a very nice one. But not much higher… (don’t get me wrong I loved the pick)

Keep it coming for part 2, it’ll take me a while to get to it like it did this one but I’ll get to it eventually ;)

We got Rubio!

by Wim (Belgium) on Aug 24, 2009 6:43 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

At full potential

and on the right team, he could be a starter…is that likely…no. But I think with his college and summer league performances, he is a very efficient SG on a fast break team…so having him be able to run with the 2nd unit will make him very valuable. It will make him look better than he is…but will help our team just the same. The reason I think we all threw out the 70 += rating, was that at most, he moves up to 75, but likely stays at a 70 (just below starter level). If McHale had made selection like this in the late first round…he would still have a job. Of course, it helps to actually have draft picks…cough…Joe Smith…cough.

by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 24, 2009 7:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sure I did a bit

He was one that if I had to give an exact number it probably would have been 67. But! I gave him some credit for being Final Four MVP (Brewer turned out ok right?! haha….) and for being on the closest to an NBA caliber team that college has to offer.
As far as his skill set, I personally feel that a guy of Ellington’s current position should be around the league for a while because his shot should at least be serviceable and anything else is gravy for us. Which from what I have heard and seen, should be a pretty nice surprise! Rambis gave him some props in a recent interview and it pretty much backed up what I saw in summer league (beyond performance based stats and into play style and fit being perfect). So yeah, he probably was overrated a little, but I still believe he will be a surprise for us this year and he will probably not get much better or worse throughout his career. Hence, my rough estimate.
I guess that’s just my reasoning, but I can definitely agree that I probably overrated him and I will adjust that in my next update (coming tomorrow late or sometime Wednesday/Thursday, depending how long it takes).

by Mplax on Aug 24, 2009 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

just a small

addition.

Wasn’t really talking about the number but the overall impression I got. I do hope you’re right and I do think it’s not out of the realm of the possible.

We got Rubio!

by Wim (Belgium) on Aug 25, 2009 2:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

not yet an average player

… if by average player we mean an average starting-team player. If Flynn gets bumped down slightly, then Ellington even moreso. We’ve got to try to be realistic and then put the “potential” part in the add-ons. 60+= is not bad going on to the court for the first time. PSR has made some nice points about Flynn – I agree, exactly what we’d want in a PG – but I still caution that this was against Summer League opposition.

by artreddin on Aug 24, 2009 9:34 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

When basing an opinion off of summer league data, you always need to consider whether or not it meshes with all of the players other data. Other than that, you need to know what skills they will need to ultimately play the position they will play during the season…did they actually show those skills? Or just put up stats? It has less to do with stats as it does with effectiveness at the role. A PG who can’t initiate the offense will be exposed on a team that doesn’t have another player on the floot who can also serve that role. If a player can both serve that role (setting up teammates) without giving up their strengths then they are a good fit. The problem with the Foye summer league fear is that everyone thought it was a great stat line. But he was traded for Roy, because McHale wanted a PG…which he wasn’t. Ideally, Foye was a 6th man. That is all you can usually ask of a combo guard like Foye. Unless he is a better physical match for SG. Combo players need the proper complementary players…Foye never had it.

by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 24, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please

Someone please give Rashad McCants and Bobby Brown some love, the most fun thing to watch about the NBA is fade threes sick layups and huge dunks, so who do you think of Vince Carter Lebron Kobe JR Smith and Rashad McCants and so on…and if you think of wierd shots that are sweet when made and mad hops who do you think of, shawn Martion, Kevin Martin, and Bobby Brown. that’s elite company. what’s the problem with Rashad McCants and Bobby Brown? Bobby Brown will never be a starting PG but he’s an ideal backup who can stroke the three plays with flair and an electricity that is fun to watch! He has a 41" vertical leap and in my opinion the most fun thing to watch in all of the NBA is guys just jacking up shots and everyone dropping and when i think of that i think of Rashad McCants and JR Smith. What maked JR better than Rashad and both are great players who are fun to watch! Bobby Brown and Rashad are similar players who don’t always make the best decisions but are fun to watch and can light you up for 15 points in 5 minutes at any time

by RB10 on Aug 25, 2009 9:35 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm having trouble deciding if this was meant to be sarcastic or not???

But if it’s not, you should think about getting a subscription to some DLeague games.

by Mplax on Aug 25, 2009 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

:0

Athleticism galore…and poor decision making…sweet!

by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 26, 2009 7:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So...

Mplax, when we getting this updated post?

by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 27, 2009 12:12 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Sorry I am really busy this week

Moving back to school this weekend and I have a ton to do before then… I’m hoping to find some time today or tomorrow to at least get my next part going and I was actually just going to update this post right now with your suggestions.

by Mplax on Aug 27, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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