Question for the day

I can't stand the NFL. There is not one good thing that I can say about the league. That being said, I did grow up as a fan of the Purple and one of my favorite most notorious sports memories is watching the 1998 NFC Championship game with a bunch of fellow Minnesotans in the wee hours of the morning while being stationed in Korea.
A few years later 41-0 ended up being the last straw. The Vikes were simply too much of an emotional investment for a league I didn't really like and a sport I didn't really understand.
My question for all of you is this: Will finding a spot on the Purple/Favre bandwagon pay off in the long run because the crushing manner in which the Purple will lose will end up being an important part of the Minnesota Identity for a long, long time. Who wants to miss out on that level of collective misery?
Not this guy. Hell, I may even bring the kids along for the ride. I'm betting that the way in which the Vikes exit the season will be one of those "where were you" moments that will be part of the basic test of Minnesotan citizenry for the next 50 years.
What say you?
0 recs |
132 comments
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Comments
Man...
So you’re going to be a ‘fan’ of a team the will become the one and only team to own the 0 – 5 Superbowl record? That’d be one to remember. Ha!
I am cautiously optimistic. I have no fantasy that Favre is anything other than a moderate upgrade at the QB position for the Vikes. The problem, and the reason why I’ll have to follow, is that even a moderate upgrade makes that team look awfully good.
Don't do it
The NFL—frankly American football in general—is such a depressingly bad sport that it just isn’t worth it. I understand the appeal of suffering with your fellows, but there are plenty of other opportunities.
by Eric in Madison on Aug 21, 2009 9:43 AM CDT reply actions
I'm viewing..
…is as more of a cultural phenomenon at this point. I stopped into Scheel’s to get some new hiking shoes yesterday and they had already sold out of purple Favre shirts. There were at least 20 people looking at jerseys. I’m thinking that in order to be culturally fluent, I’m going to at least have to pay attention.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
BTW:
I completely agree about football. It’s mind-numbing. It’s even worse in person when you realize that it’s 3-5 seconds of big guys running into and beating the crap out of each other followed by a lot of standing around. I would love to see how the game would look if for one contest there were no piped in noise or PA sound.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
No offense
but I’d rather watch any random NFL game than the WNBA Finals.
by College Wolf on Aug 21, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions
I like football
And I’m not afraid to admit it on this board. I think it’s a thing of beauty to watch Purple Jesus burst through the line, juke a linebacker and safety, and sprint to the endzone. There’s always talk about the NBA having the best athletes in the world on this site, but guys like AD aren’t too shabby either. Also, I enjoy the team aspect of football—the only sport where 11 guys have to be doing the exact right thing at the right time or everything goes to hell. I’m sure there’ll be more comments about how boring football is, or how the NBA is more exciting and has better athletes, and I just want to be clear that I’m not trying to start some debate here. I’m just pointing out what I like about football personally, and that watching guys like AD and Moss have their own special allure.
As for the cultural dynamic of this Favre thing—it is crazy! Helicopters?! Are you kidding me? I hope the guy does well, as this team is built to win now, but let’s not lose perspective here people. It’s one season. Next year the Vikes will have a lot of questions.
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Aug 21, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't want anyone to have to apologize or be afraid to admit..
…that they like football. I simply do not like it and I will talk about that every now and then. There’s nothing wrong with liking a highly specialized, militantly socialistic, violent game fueled by gambling and a love for over-the-top spectacle ;)
In all seriousness, I really don’t want people to have to be defensive about their love of football. It’s all in good fun. If it gets too over the top, let me know.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
What,
You don’t like modern day gladiator competitions? ;)
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Aug 21, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Instead of
“Maximus….Maximus….Maximus….”
we’ll be hearing
“Brett…..Brett….Brett….”
(cue heroic orchestral music)
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Aug 21, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
you mean..
…human cock fighting? ;)
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
That uneducated comment is why I didn't vote McCain
Okay there were a few other reasons, but that was one of the dumbest things ever said.
Textbook example of a politician speaking out against something just to speak out against it, despite knowing nothing about what he is speaking out against.
Poster for next year? I'm thinking My Little Pony.
Couldn't you just call this 60 down human cock fighting instead?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Instead of football^
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Always been a bigger fan of Jousting.
I hate Pod Six. I don't even know why we have a Pod Six. Total suck pod.
by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on Aug 21, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions
I have to admit that
I only have a passing interest in football. I haven’t been to a game since Carter played for the Dolphins and Gary Anderson hit that 50 yard field goal to win while Carter was on the sidelines saying that he will never make it. Other than that, I only catch an occasional game on TV, where I don’t pay $8+ for a beer, etc. You got to have the mute on and it is more about talking game plans with your friends than all of the hoopla. The problem is that with so many guys on the field, unless you tape it and review it is damn near impossible to really see what is going on. Whereas B-ball and Hockey is at least 5 on 5 (I will exclude the stationary goalies for this one). So you don’t feel like your eyes need to be like a friggin hawk to enjoy the intricacies of the game.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 21, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Wait... you're comparing noticing what is going on in Football to Hockey?
I’m a fan of both, but football is WAY easier to keep track of than hockey. The stoppages also allow you to see every play over again, which IMO is very entertaining.
Even in live action though, you can tell when stuff is happening in football. In hockey (on TV) it’s tough to follow the action a lot of the times because of the speed and size of the puck.
Poster for next year? I'm thinking My Little Pony.
Hockey is not a game for TV
That’s why it’s never translated as much into the mainstream.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I like it too.
I’ll watch a basketball game over a football game (by a mile in person, by a quarter-mile on TV) because football is just slightly too “draw the play, put the pieces in place, and push a button and watch it unfold” for me. There’s not enough creativity involved, except for the rare occasions where a quarterback improvises to save a broken play.
But there isn’t much I like more than sitting down with friends to watch Monday Night Football. It’s just a more electric atmosphere.
Creativity
I agree – and this is why Favre has been one of my favorite players. He’s always struck me as one of the most creative.
Me too
“Football combines the two worst things about America: it is violence punctuated by committee meetings.”
— George Will
That there is the only case in which I regularly quote George Will.
It’s not just the in-game milling around and 8 situational substitutions on every down. The level of injuries in football is so danged awful. You’re a fan of some star, and poof, he’s gone. Keith Millard. Billy Sims. Name a player.
Awful sport.
Awful sport?
You must never have played it.
by College Wolf on Aug 21, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions
The sport is different than the league, granted
Maybe it’s just the NFL that comes across as a bureaucratic mess of a league, and not the sport as a whole. I played in vacant lots and parks as a kid, full tackle without pads and with hard feelings afterward.
But there are many, many sports I like better. Rugby, for one, if you want something related. Far more action, not primarily comprised of stoppages in play, and the players are if anything tougher. (I was in Paris for the Rugby final between Les Bleus and England maybe five years ago, and it was awesome.)
Agreed...
..I think the one thing that has really turned me off from the sport (aside from the whole quasi-WWE atmosphere around the games) is the level of specialization at each and every position. It’s violent socialism. Players become more and more coggish each and every year and we hear more and more about “systems” and other faceless methods of play. Ick.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
That's because there are 53 players on a team...
by College Wolf on Aug 21, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions
There is some of that..
…but 15 years ago the Coaching Cult was still limited to Bill Walsh and there weren’t a bunch of articles and TV shows geared around talking about the need for a particular type of guard to “plug into” a specific zone blocking scheme. The whole gambling/fantasy football angle is kind of weird too.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Yeah NBA stars don't get injured
Penny Hardaway, Grant Hill (the real GH), and so on.
How about this. How many title contending teams were healthy in last year’s playoffs for JUST their stars.
Spurs- LOL no, not even close
Magic- Nelson = out
Boston- No KG
Lakers- Bynum was back, but not back to 100%
Cleveland- Okay… they avoided injuries, of course they only have 1 good player.
Poster for next year? I'm thinking My Little Pony.
Injuries happen in every sport, sure
But I was a football fan, and we both know there’s a difference. The rate of injuries, and their severity in terms of the effect on a player’s future career, are both far worse. Even routine wear at skill positions means the best, most exciting running backs have short effective careers. As a fan the overall effect is arbitrary. Keith Millard is the man, Keith Millard is crazy enough to flex at a cop and say his arms are stronger than the cop’s gun…. Keith Millard is gone.
Speaking of Millard, though: How about the completely rampant use of performance-enhancing drugs, and the complete denial about it? Do any of us honestly think that a freakish change in genetics and lifting techniques has resulted in a constant wave of lean 315-pound offensive linemen? In the day, Curtis “Boo Boo” Rouse was the one 300+ pounder on the Vikes, and he was a novelty. Now linemen are ‘enhanced’ as a rule, and anone under 285 or so is small.
Stop-n-Pop I love your enthusiasnm for basketball and reading your posts. I visit this site mulitple times a day and find your writing excellent, informative and entertaining. However, I never thought I would see you put down a sport like you are the NFL. It may not be your “cup of tea” but I didn’t think I would see this. I don’t watch bowling but I’m not going to put it down.
The NFL is a great league with freak athletes doing freak things. One example is Peterson his rookie year, now that was something to watch. Or Randy Moss entering the league…unbeliavable and unforgettable.
Couldn't agree more.
What’s with the hate? If you don’t like it then just don’t watch it. There’s no need to rip it. I love the NBA, but the NFL is even better.
by College Wolf on Aug 21, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't watch it
And, in the grand scheme of things, I don’t talk about it all that much. This (the Favre business), however, is a cultural event. It transcends the game and one that I find is somewhat entertaining.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
True
The Favre stuff has far surpassed what I thought would happen. The response has been absolutely astounding—in all honesty, I don’t really quite get it. As a huge Vikes fan myself, I think most Vikes rubes will be really disappointed if the Vikes win less than 14 games this year.
Ridiculous.
Here’s my question—are diehard basketball fans and football fans like mongoose and snakes (ala Rudyard Kipling’s “Rikki-tikki-tavi”?)—they just don’t get along?
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Aug 21, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
That's a fantastic question..
…and I think there is something to it. We should run a question of the day about it.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Personally...
I’d say no, but that’s because I have friends and family who like both but just favor football. They wouldn’t watch an NBA game if it didn’t include the Wolves (and even then they don’t necessarily watch it unless the team is good), but they have no problem having social gatherings for non-Vikings playoff games.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Aug 21, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions
You can be a diehard both fan.
Football is only played 1 day a week.
Poster for next year? I'm thinking My Little Pony.
And even then
During the average NFL game, there’s far more time between plays than is spent on the actual game action. Really your big Vikings fan sees around 10 to 15 minutes of game action a week, and that’s counting offensive plays by both teams.
That’s so little actual sport, you’d almost have to branch out, wouldn’t you?
Still not watching
Autumn in MN is too short to spend 4 hours on a beautiful afternoon inside watching TV commercials. I’ll still pay attention but I’m unlikely to watch a game beginning to end.
DVR much? And games don't take 4 hours anyways dude.
by College Wolf on Aug 21, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions
No DVR
Still not giving up any Sunday afternoons, might watch that Monday night game v Green Bay.
Sunday afternoon isn't the only time there are games...
And the season lasts a loooooot longer than simply Autumn.
by College Wolf on Aug 21, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Not for the Vikings it doesn't
If they’re playing in January I’ll watch then. :)
I have to say my top 2 sports are baseball and basketball
Baseball season gets over in October, basketball is just starting then. They roll over into each other quite nicely.
You'd rather watch a baseball game than the NFL?!?!?!
Baseball on TV bores me to tears. I like the sport of baseball, but I can’t watch unless I am at the game or fastforwarding on DVR…
by College Wolf on Aug 21, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
Don't tell someone not to rip football...
And then rip baseball. That’s favoring subjectivity when it suits your point but claiming objectivity when it doesn’t.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Aug 21, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions
It's one thing to comment in response to another person.
Totally different.
by College Wolf on Aug 21, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
I used to score every pitch
Using my own homemade score sheets. When someone came up I could look back and see what he’d done the previous at bat. Did the next three guys up work the pitcher deep into the count, fouling off pitches? Must be why the opposing manager’s warming up that lefty.
By contrast, my scoring system for NFL games, back in the day, consisted of grinding through stats from the newspaper. At games I had to settle for such thrills as being frustrated when long returns got cancelled by the ever-exciting “illegal block from behind.” Or pass interference penalties. Nothing more exciting than winning a game because the other team’s cornerback drew the flag. Go us.
Calm down, man.
Pro Football fans and Pro Basketball fans are typically mutually exclusive groups. No big deal. Personally, I really enjoy football, but that has more to do with me actually playing the sport in high school and college. The pro game can be a lot of fun, but it can also get old. I love the college game.
Honestly though, I am just a fan of sports. I find that I can appreciate sports for the different talents, nuances, skill sets, strategies, whatever that are involved. Of course, I did play hockey, football, basketball, baseball, soccer, and golf while growing up. So, I know those sports a bit more intimately.
by Krotz the Wall on Aug 21, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
I am sad to say that as if being a wolves fan wasn’t enough of being a glutton for punishment, it is only the appitizer for being a purple fan. I grew up a die hard vikings fan and have the misfortune for always being one. I can only hope that like red sox fans somewhere I get to see my team win the super bowl. However, I am realistic. The vikings will lose in quadrulple overtime on a botched snap for a twenty yard field goal that winds up being fumbled three times before the opposing team falls on it in the other end zone. Ahh the wonders of the purple. That said, Go Rubio, Go Johny, Go big al, and hopefully the wolves give me something to watch. The difference is. The wolves are always so bad i never have any real hope. The purple are like the girl you think is gonna give it up on prom night, only she always lets you down.
by remiel6 on Aug 21, 2009 10:26 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I think you mean...
The 2001 championship game (or 2000 if you’re going by the season instead of the actual date it was played). 41-Donut, as Randy Moss affectionately called it, was the loss to the Giants.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Aug 21, 2009 10:33 AM CDT reply actions
Kerry Collins as Joe Montana
It was 21-0 before I’d stuck my first chip in the dip.
Pining for a Troy Hudson/Marko Jaric backcourt.
I was planning to watch it with my parents...
But was on my way back to college by the time they were down 14-0. A game like that was a Denny Green special (Cowboys in ’96, Rams in ’00). Bill Simmons used the game as a Level-6 example (“The Full-Fledged Butt-Kicking”) in his Levels of Losing column.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Aug 21, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
I was living in Omaha..
…at the time and my eldest daughter (who was 2 at the time) took a water gun and shot it inside of our TV 1 hour and 45 minutes before kickoff. I had already invited people over for the game and I made a mad dash to the Best Buy over at 72nd and Dodge and made it back just in time to see it go 14-0. What made it worse was that one of the guys I invited over was from Jersey City and was a huge Giants fan.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
I was in LA that week
on a business trip. Stayed out til about 3:00am and had fun on Saturday night. Had to wake up two hours early due to time zone difference. The only time in my life I was glad I had a hangover, made the game more bearable!
As a non-native
I believe that a big part of the Minnesota culture is shared misery. Winter. Road construction. Vikings in the Super Bowl.
Might as well let your kids be fully immersed in their heritage.
I'm surprised by this anti-football talk
Almost everyone I know who likes the Wolves also really likes the Vikings. I follow both really closely. Basketball is my favorite sport but football Sundays get me more excited than any other televised sport mainly because of the anticipation built up over the whole week and how each game means so much more because of the much shorter schedule. If there are any sports that are mutually exclusive I would think it’s basketball and hockey since the schedules overlap so much almost every night.
by Bethke on Aug 21, 2009 10:42 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Agree
Almost my real life friends that love basketball like football almost as much (if not more.)
by College Wolf on Aug 21, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions
I AM SO WITH YOU!
I actively hate the NFL. But, good God, Brett Favre with the Vikings? What could possibly go wrong? This is like Herschel Walker coming to town, throwing a shoe while running all over the Packers in his first game and everyone saying, “Just imagine when he learns the playbook!” The Vikings are going to win the Super Bowl, just as sure as they did when they stole Walker from those dupes down South. I know exactly where this season is headed and I’m going to be watching.
Super Bowl, Home Boy
Heh. (Honestly, I will be watching.)
Pining for a Troy Hudson/Marko Jaric backcourt.
As for this specific situation...
The only people who will share in this “collective misery” will be the ones who think Favre is a guarantee to get to the NFC championship and then, if it doesn’t happen (if the Cardinals can make it to the Super Bowl so can this Vikes team), use it as another piece in the Grand Vikings Narrative. “We get him, and he’s not good anymore.” People who waited for his Escalade or buy a bunch or merchandise are conveniently forgetting his playoff record since losing the ‘98 Super Bowl (3-6) and his almost even-steven TD/INT numbers since Mike Holmgren left. I’m planning to post about Favre after the game tonight (hopefully my gratuitous plug of my new blog isn’t as bad as the FireDavidKahn guy), but my general take is that this is Brad Childress’ $25 million insurance policy to stay above .500 the next 2 seasons and keep his job.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Aug 21, 2009 10:49 AM CDT reply actions
but my general take is that this is Brad Childress’ $25 million insurance policy to stay above .500 the next 2 seasons and keep his job.
Exactly
Timberwolves - NBA champs 2013!
(used with permission - Wolf in MO)
by frankenhoops on Aug 24, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
How can you not just
absolutely love the impending drama? The Favre-Vikings season is lining up just like a high school party where you are just waiting to see someone’s ex girlfriend get into a spat with her ex best friend who cheated with her ex man (if that all made sense, if not…Springer…Springer). This has been the biggest MN sports offseason that I can remember. Favre to the Vikings. New coach and GM for both Wild and Wolves. Massive Wolves trades, Gaborik leaves…Havlat signs…I don’t know how much more I can take. Every time I surf the web, I expect some more ground breaking news.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 21, 2009 10:52 AM CDT reply actions
If only the Twins could have an interesting offseason, we'd be set.
I hate Pod Six. I don't even know why we have a Pod Six. Total suck pod.
by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on Aug 21, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, they've been bilking that since they broke ground.
I mean, you know, offseason moves based on the increased cashflow. Maybe the Mauer extension, I dunno. Something, please.
I hate Pod Six. I don't even know why we have a Pod Six. Total suck pod.
by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on Aug 21, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
The Springer angle..
…is awesome.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Football iz y far de bess sport eva mayn
u missin out homie, nuttin come close
FAVRE MAYN!! WWE GON BE TOOO THOOWEDD
MAYN HOL UP!
Suffering breeds character...
Come join us SnP.
I’m of the belief that sports aren’t really interesting until you understand their nuances.
- Baseball is boring if you don’t understand the sub-plot in each at-bat. A guy is a fastball hitter, and the pitcher has been struggling with his breaking stuff, but it’s a 3-2 count with the bases loaded. What does he do?
- Basketball is boring if you don’t understand matchups and substitution patterns. Corey Brewer’s shot isn’t falling (as usual), but Kobe Bryant is going off and you need someone to make him work. You’re down 10. Go for points with Gomes or D with Brew?
I truly feel this is why soccer hasn’t taken off in the US. A vast majority just don’t see the battles and tactics within the game that take place.
If you haven’t been following the NFL, my guess is that you just need to reach that level of understanding. 3rd and five. Why aren’t we in press coverage? Should we blitz a safety off the edge or play back? Are we in field goal range? Football, more than any other sport is all about “strategery” (IMO). Once you’re there…you’re hooked.
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
by mutleyil on Aug 21, 2009 11:33 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Football has more strategy than any other popular sport in the US
by College Wolf on Aug 21, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Which is another reason its frustrating to hear those people rip on it like they were doing
way up at the top of this post.
by College Wolf on Aug 21, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not entirely clear on why you're so frustrated
I’m not telling you not to like football, and football gets along just fine without me. It’s not like the league is hurting for fans who watch, spend money, etc. I don’t deny that there is strategy; it seems vastly overblown to me, but what do I know? I just don’t like it, for many reasons. I don’t like the sport itself, I don’t like the injuries, I don’t think it’s natural for people to be that size, I don’t like the militarized aspect of it, I hate the coach worship, I don’t like the way the league runs it’s business—particularly labor relations. I could go on. But, you know, feel free.
Now, I’m frustrated that more people don’t like soccer, because I would love it if we had more support for a better professional league. If you wrote a post about not liking soccer, I might try to explain why I like it, and try to convince you to give it another try, but you seem really almost angry about people expressing a dislike for football.
by Eric in Madison on Aug 21, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Nice.
I didn’t know there was such a soccer following on this site. My #1 sport/obsession is soccer and I’ve always thought that the MLS would do well to market towards NBA fans. The 2 seasons don’t butt into each other and the crossover appeal with players like Steve Nash and KG (who has a soccer field in his backyard. man what I would give to get a run in on that patch of grass) is massive.
by Minneapleseed on Aug 21, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep
The MLS has actually found a foothold, finally. As for basketball, one of the things that Nash talks about that I think is true is that the emergence of European and South American players in the NBA has brought a little of what you might call the soccer mentality to the NBA. The creativity not just individually, but creativity involving others.
Frankly, I don’t follow soccer as closely as I want to, because I’m not particularly near an MLS team, and the league is clearly inferior, and it’s tough to follow Euro leagues from here. Though it’s clearly growing. This summer was great for soccer here, and ESPN is now going to show premiership games regularly (can Man U lose ignominiously again—this time to Wigan? Let’s hope so!).
I was disappointed that Minny didn’t get an MLS team originally. I used to go to Thunder games when they played at MacAlester back in the early-mid 90s. Tony Sanneh (later on the US national team) was on some of those teams. He was so much faster than anyone else on the field, it was silly.
by Eric in Madison on Aug 21, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Sanneh...
was the man. He still runs a camp in ’Sota and plays with GoldenBalls (Beckham for the non soccer literate) and Landon Donovan in LA. He was actually on ESPN a couple of nights ago making an appearance as a late/veteran substitution and can still hold his own at 38.
The MLS is getting better and is actually of higher quality than many of the South American leagues and is gaining quickly on the European leagues. Right now, the MLS would rate as a 2nd division league in the big countries (England, Spain, Germany, Italy) but would be very competitive in the smaller countries.
The Champions League will be played on FSN (my boys, Arsenal, just were on Tuesday vs. Celtic) and FX.
It’s too bad the Thunder couldn’t keep up financially with the other USL teams. I think they had some strong roots, but couldn’t keep up when the other teams made the jump. Now Seattle, Portland and Vancouver join MLS and the Thunder are one of the last remaining teams from the ’90’s USL days.
Steve Nashs’ brother will be in town on September 4th with the Vancouver Whitecaps, good cheap entertainment.
by Minneapleseed on Aug 21, 2009 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Funny you mention that Minneapleseed
I would be shocked if they weren’t the heaviest money maker in the MLS, but the Seattle Sounders have a HUGE following. I think that’s where some of the NBA money went honestly that used to be spent in Seattle in such huge portions.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
"More"...
…being the operative concept; one that is completely unattached to any notion of quality…which is getting to be more and more of a turnoff in terms of watching the game as a casual sports fan. It’s almost corporate at this point, with each team having several divisions (quality control technician, offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator, special teams coordinator, gap control guru, offensive line coach, assistant offensive line coach, running backs yoga instructor, and so on and so forth) with their own special purpose and fiefdom. At some point part of their existence is to justify their existence and we have to all pretend that they matter, probably a bit more than they really do. Football is all about “more” and that is part of why I can’t stand it.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
I take your point...
But the player to coach ratio in the NBA is far higher. 12 on the active roster…2 or 3 more that don’t suit up. And you have a head coach, 3 assistants, a strength and conditioning guy, a video coordinator, a “big man” coach, etc…
Nature of the beast in all pro sports.
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
Great points mutleyil…CW, spot on about strategy. Basketball and football have more strategy than the casual fan will ever understand. I’m a bit surprised by folks here (especially StopNPoP) with their resentment of football. I don’t enjoy baseball much but have little bad to say about it. The way it’s been ripped is amazing…The first several posts surely were typed out of frustration.
Thanks
and I completely agree with your other points as well.
Not sure why I’m getting ripped above for pointing stuff out. Absurd.
by College Wolf on Aug 21, 2009 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions
a somewhat...
subjective statement. what would the definition of “strategy” be and how does throwball have more of it than any other sport?
not saying you shouldn’t like it or watch, but to each their own and some just don’t find throwball all that interesting or strategic in nature.
by Minneapleseed on Aug 21, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
No one cares if "you" don't find it strategic...
the point is that the game of football IS more strategic than almost any other sport.
by College Wolf on Aug 21, 2009 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Not just ME...
and why is it more strategic?
by Minneapleseed on Aug 21, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Seriously?
I don’t have the time or energy to sit down and explain complicated strategy of a sport to people that obviously don’t care to hear about it… judging from their preconcieved opinions, at least.
by College Wolf on Aug 21, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Not to mention the woefully blind agreement with just about any post made on some of these Wolves sites (including our own). I swear I have not seen a collection of men ever blindly slam football before. It’s odd how the internet works.
All I'm saying...
is every sport has it’s own strategy involved with it. Which is “more” strategic is completely subjective and everyones’ viewpoint will be biased by which sports strategy they understand or follow more.
I think you would have a hard time making an argument that throwball has “more” strategy than any other sport if you were speaking to someone who was either an expert at or very well versed in the sport you were comparing throwball to.
by Minneapleseed on Aug 21, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I see your point
but I don’t agree. And really… “throwball” ??? C’mon.
by College Wolf on Aug 21, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Just backlash...
from all the soccer (rightfully football, really) hatred I’ve had thrown at me from the American football crowd.
Why call a game in which the ball rarely touches the foot “football”.
by Minneapleseed on Aug 21, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Ok?
It doesn’t matter what the name of the sport is, why insult it? And you wonder why I get frustrated in my responses.
Its like me calling the sport of Basketball “Dunkball.” And then someone rightfully calls me out on such a stupid name, and I say: “you mean they do something other than dunk?”
by College Wolf on Aug 21, 2009 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Runners up include "Foulball," "Timeoutsattheendofthegameball" and "Startreatmentball"
I hate Pod Six. I don't even know why we have a Pod Six. Total suck pod.
by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on Aug 21, 2009 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions
All I'm saying is calling it "Throwball" makes you look ignorant.
Maybe you are, I dunno.
by College Wolf on Aug 21, 2009 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not insulting...
the sport, just said your opinion of “more strategic” is subjective. A statement with which you apparently don’t agree. It is what it is…
Throwball was meant to be joking, not insulting.
I think you’re getting a bit too personal for my liking here. Ignorance is a pretty ugly term.
My disliking your preferred sport does not make me ignorant or wrong and you still have not given any objective reasons as to why THROWBALL is more strategic than any other sport.
by Minneapleseed on Aug 21, 2009 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
If I was going to sit down and attempt to explain the complex strategy behind 'Throwball"
that time would not be right now. Nor would I feel like explaining it to you ,since you obviously have a closed mind.
by College Wolf on Aug 21, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Pot calling kettle black...
You have determined my mind is closed, yet don’t acknowledge the fact that others views are just as valid as your own.
I do, in fact, understand much of the strategy behind the game, have many friends who played at and now coach at high levels and enjoy discussing the nuances of the sport as well as comparing ideas/strategies from other sports.
But I won’t go so far as to say sport “x” has MORE strategy than sport “y”. That is the basis of the argument, after all, and it is quite a silly one to make as it is impossible to prove.
by Minneapleseed on Aug 21, 2009 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I've noticed...
That on two separate threads now, major (and really petty) arguments have broken out with College Wolf at the center of them. First the thing about “respecting David Kahn’s wishes” and the ticket-holder lunch thing, and now this.
Hmmm…
Hmmmmm what?
Do you have anything of substance to add to this?
by College Wolf on Aug 22, 2009 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions
So you ARE an expert!
Good. then you’ll be able to talk to us about the complexity of planning for an upcoming season as a football coach vs the complexity of planning for an upcoming season as…let’s say a baseball coach. Admittedly, I really am asking as far as baseball. But I doubt more than a select few here have even the faintest idea of how much mentally stimulating work Kurt Rambis or Brad Childress do from the time they wake up to the time they hit the sack (pun intended).
But you've got a week to prepare for the football game
And sometimes you’ve got less than 24 hours in basketball. The point is that they are different and each has their own challenges and strategies.
While I think the NFL, with a time of possession and down and distance and field position concerns definitely has some strategic implications (somewhat in the military sense) that the NBA has less of, you also don’t have guaranteed contracts, meaning there is an aspect in baseball and basketball where you have to strategically manage your players that isn’t the same as NFL. I think the more interesting question is what do people prefer: guaranteed or non guaranteed contracts?
I don’t think this strategy argument holds water. And it certainly doesnt when you start calling people ignorant when they bring up points that are at least as valid as yours.
Finally, while I’m a hoops fan first and foremost, if nothing else the signing of Farve is going to bring FUN (good or bad) and it already has. Which is great for a league that some folks (not me) call the “No Fun League”.
And nothing is less fun than CW when someone disagrees with him.
well in that case
B-ball should be called traveling, because I can’t tell you how funny it is to see someone take 3-4 steps to the hole for a layup…and no call. You should hear Bob Knight complain about this…it’s almost better than the no call.
by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 21, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions
How does one find an "expert" in all?
If such a person existed, I’m sure the level of strategy in football would far exceed that of Tennis, for example. I like Tennis, and used to play. I don’t know enough about Baseball (like you don’t with Football) to really understand how much strategy is involved. I will say that more strategy is involved in basketball than most will ever know, because most will never, and could never, coach on a significant level that would allow them to understand the complexity of the strategy involved (football as well).
I forgot to mention...
This is why the Favre signing is such a big deal. Every team we play just had to change their defensive approach against is. 8 and 9 mine fronts were the plan. Does Old Man Favre have enough left to make them pay.
My guess is they play us more straight up front 7 to start. What can Adrian Peterson do with that? A historic season possibly…
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
If he stays healthy
2,000 yards, possibly the all-time record.
by College Wolf on Aug 21, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
Meh
I know baseball inside and out and find it boring as can be. Grew up with the game, played it for a decade… but the older I got the more bored I got by it. And this was before it was realized that 75% of the All-Stars are breaking rules left and right.
Poster for next year? I'm thinking My Little Pony.
A fair weather fan here.
Will watch more than my share this fall with the Favre drama, a Peterson smash, and a Harvin slant. The game becomes more enjoyable if I look at it as a live game of Risk.
The reason I like basketball first and football second
is it’s too hard to be an expert in football. Darn near impossible. Each team has 53 players, 22 starters plus special teams, players’ careers are much shorter, and there’s so much moving around. In basketball, I can give you an opinionated description of pretty much every player in the league. In football, I’m struggling to remember the players on my own team. Ultimately, it doesn’t matter that much. Individual stars have less of an impact, and there’s really only one position where you need a talented player to be successful.
Football is the nation’s top sport for good reason, however. It’s the only sport that combines highly meaningful scoring (i.e. it’s a big deal any time anyone scores) with the possibility that it could happen at any time, while having being exciting to watch on a play by play basis. What’s more, every game is relevant. No other sport can say all that.
Stats
How good is your right tackle, or the left guard or the second string RB that returns kick-offs on occasion. Hard to measure that, along with how well your middle linebacker is playing with turf toe. At least in Basketball you can analyze how well the offense is doing. (and I’m sure Morey has some great defensive stats he just isn’t sharing).
Timberwolves - NBA champs 2013!
(used with permission - Wolf in MO)
by frankenhoops on Aug 24, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions
The story lines are endless
For example, Chilly wanted Tarvaris Jackson as his quarterback because he was a “blank slate”. And now he wants Favre? Chilly is a control freak and Favre is a maverick. I can’t wait to hear the coach’s reaction when Favre audibles out of a running play in order to throw a pass.
Being vested in the success of your team
I grew up playing lots of football (it was my best sport in high school), but as time goes on I feel that its truly not healthy to ‘live or die’ with your team’s victories or losses. Of course, one only comes to that realization after some period of time. I used to be a diehard Viking fan, but my memory of failure goes back through all of their Super Bowl losses. Further, actually, since I was a huge Baltimore Colts fan (being a MLB like Mike Curtis) the year they inexplicably lost to the Jets. It was the beginning of a long period of suffering for me. I will still cheer their victories, but I won’t let them their inevitable losses break my heart. Fortunately, the T-Wolves don’t prompt such a reaction, as they have never been to the mountain top, or even sniffed at it.
Wowee. Good Morning......
I’ll say I know the rudiments of NFL, but not growing up with it I don’t know the game in the way so many of you all do.
But even here I know Brett Favre. And the annual “will I, won’t I” shenanigans. He’s 40 or 41?
So my question is this. 2yrs, $25mil. Is Favre the guy to put you over the top or is this a team taking a wild stab in the dark?
Also, throwball. New game? ;)
Only cowards pray for rain.
RE: Favre...
…he is a complete wild card. He could put the team over the top or kill them for years. The buildup for this guy has been amazing. This is a guy who is as close to Jordan as an NFL player can get. The Vikes are his Wizards. We’ll see how it ends up.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
Favre = Jordan?
I don’t know about that. I’m not a big NFL guy by any means, but it seems like a lot of his fame is the theatrics of his game, which Jordan had too, but Favre has never had the results of Jordan. 2 Super Bowls in the 90’s, 1 win. I’ll definitely watch a lot more this year, even though it’s never been much more to me than hangover TV viewing or “it’s too cold to go outside” TV viewing.
And what does College Wolf think?
Apparently I'm just an idiot, but all I know is that
Favre is not even close to equaling Jordan.
by College Wolf on Aug 22, 2009 12:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Since when
Did saying “Favre is as close to Jordan as an NFL player can get” and directly referencing Jordan’s second comeback mean that Favre = Jordan? I don’t think Favre = Jordan but can see where the comparison is being made and agree that they share a high status in their respective sports and a desire to play at the expense of tarnishing their respective legacies.
by pagingstanleyroberts on Aug 22, 2009 1:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Fair enough
I can agree there. Need to do less skimming.
by College Wolf on Aug 22, 2009 1:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Fair enough
But Manning, Brady, Montana, Barry Sanders would all be closer off the top of my head from the recent past and present. But yes, of course, Favre and Jordan both have lofty positions.
112 comments!
Serves me right for coming to the party four hours late.
I love football. So much so I stopped watching it in the ‘80s after seeing a clip of Gus Otto entering the hall of fame in a wheelchair. Football must change the rules to penalize 300 lb linemen. Use Mike Leach’s example at Texas Tech and spread the line out so the behemoths lose their edge.
Current rules encourage players to destroy their health bulking up. This isn’t sport, it’s a Roman circus without the lions. The NFL has buried the stats on player mortality but if you do some serious searching with Google you’ll find it remarkably hard to find any obits for NFL players in their 70s or 80s, not the players who stayed in the game until they were 30 or older.
The NFL is 80 years old. Where are the old players? Every other sport trots its fossils out on a regular basis. The NFL can’t because their old players have serious health issues, at least the ones who are still alive.
The really sad part..
…is that the health-abusing aspect of it all has trickled down to college and high school. 300+ lbs offensive linemen in high school is insane. It’s insane in college. Hell, it’s insane in the pros. During training camp here in Mankato a bunch of older Vikings (read: players from the 70s and 80s) sell their (bootleg, I believe) jerseys in front of Jake’s Stadium Pizza. Some of these guys can hardly move. One of my very good friends played O-Line at Virginia Tech and he has a laundry list of health issues at 35. The stories about putting on weight are unbelievable.
I remember reading an article from your site about Leach. I hope his system catches on in the pros because the line is where change needs to happen the most.
Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com
a little joke
Why are the Minnesota Vikings purple??
Because after 100 years of choking you’d be purple too.
But in all seriousnees you have to be a viking fan even though they let us down almost always the ride is still nice. sure it may end in heartache but when they do win the superbowl it will be so epic. so get on the band waggin now like all the other fair weathers fans. Because if you watch the team this year go far and choke i guarntee you will be excited for next year, and who knows maybe thi is the year.!!!!!!! yeah favre!!!!!
What a joke
NFL >>>>>>>>>> NBA
Favorite Comedians: Mike Birbiglia, Doug Benson, Daniel Tosh, Delmon Young in Left Field.
I disagree
But I’m surprised at the level of defensiveness from NFL supporters in this thread. NFL clearly is the more popular of the two in this country, no need to go crazy on a bunch of NBA people (not that y2jayjk’s comment is “going crazy” exactly).
Both sides have been really defensive. Classic case of sports jingoism.
I hate Pod Six. I don't even know why we have a Pod Six. Total suck pod.
by Kevin Loves McHale's Navy on Aug 22, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Haven't read a single post
So I don’t know if I am repeating what has been said previously, but here is my rant. I am unfortunately a Vikings fan, not passionate, mind you, but a fan none the less. I dispise this move. Farve, as far as I am concerened, is OTH and should have retired three years ago. I can NOT believe that the great purple people eaters signed this has been FOR TWO YEARS AND $25 MILLION. Will he flame out? Oh yeah, just a matter of when. Will the Vikes make the SB this year? Heck no, they’ll find some way to lose it in the conference finals and then Farve will do the same BS as he’s done the past five years and Chili will have a heart attack. I will more than likely be a witness to it all.
I will rejoice if they actually win a super bowl in my lifetime and may invite ya’ll down to the ranch for a party afterwards. I don’t like the Vikes as much as I do the Twins which isn’t as much as I love the Wolves. Now you know how hung up I am on “great” teams.
GO VIKES!! Boo – Farve
Timberwolves - NBA champs 2013!
(used with permission - Wolf in MO)

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