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Putting back KLove


Ah, beloved LMA. God's gift to all of us. My day is brightened having mentioned his name.

 

But seriously though, courtesy of the sizable debate(s) comparing Love and LMA (ooh, a bluebird just landed on my shoulder!) a meme has developed about KLove regarding his scoring potential in the future--namely, that he's too short and thus can't get his own shot off/grabs his own rebounds (inflating his rebound %)/gets a lot of his points off of his own putbacks.

 

In essence, the long term offensive potential of KLove is diminished because he depends too much on putbacks, dunks, and other similar shots.

 

This is wrong, and here's the proof.

Star-divide

 

If you followed the link, you'll discover a wondeful blog entry looking at the NBA players who were most dependent on "easy shots", (easy shots being layups, dunks, alley-oops, tips, and putbacks).

For layups, our formerly own Craig Smith was third most dependent on layups last year, taking 54% of his total shots as layups, (er, should that be 'laying 54% of his total shots as layups'?). Not much else noticeable here.

Moving on to dunks, turns out one Mr. Greg Oden led the league in % of shots as dunks, coming in at almost 28% of his total shots. Fifth was Joel Pryz with almost 24%. Still no Love though (or any current TWolf for that matter, for either layups or dunks).

Alley-oops are next, and they are utterly dominated by two players: Tyson Chandler and Deandre Jordan. I would be very happy if Corey Brewer cracks this list next year.

Next up are putbacks. Kevin Love is suspiciously absent again this list, meaning that less than 2.34% of KLove's total shots are from putbacks.

Finally we get to tips. KLove cracks this list at #19, just ahead of Mr. Oden. Przy ranks third, at over 20% of his total shots, compared to KLove's 6.8%.

 

So what do we take from this? Cheap baskets by big men appear to be dictated by two things--playing with a great guard who can get you the ball for easy dunks, alley-oops, tips, and the like; and being athletically gifted enough to sky high (Dwight Howard ranked among the tops in many of these categories, for example). If you believe that per minute, per 36, or % of reb collected out of total opportunites are better stats than simple ppg, rpg, etc., then KLove is far more offensively productive than just easy putbacks and tips of his own misses.

Poll
What will KLove's pts/36 be next year (he average 15.8 last year)?
0-10 pts/36
7 votes
10-13 pts/36
5 votes
13-16 pts/36
51 votes
16-17 pts/36
138 votes
18-20 pts/36
131 votes
20+ pts/36
26 votes
More than LMA
20 votes

378 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 39 comments

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I should add for the poll

KLove averaged 25 minutes a game last year, with 8.5 FGA per game. If he plays 36 minutes a game this year, he would take 3.5 more shots per game, assuming the presence of Jonny Flynn doesn’t change anything (like give him more looks).

"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."

by biggity2bit on Aug 27, 2009 1:18 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

*Love* the post!

I took 18-20, but I was close to taking the 20+ just because I think Love will get more looks this year and I also believe he will be slightly more productive (with his overall shooting percentage maybe dropping because of more jump shots). I just don’t think that if he does get into the 20+ it will be more than 21 so I couldn’t justify it.
Apart from the fact that he might be putting in his own putbacks, I would not mind it at all if we had a player high on the list in putbacks. Easy baskets as long as they are not your own… even then, good job on cleaning up after yourself, aren’t we all taught to do that as kids anyways?

by Mplax on Aug 27, 2009 1:32 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

LaMarcus Aldridge

Panic stations turned into happy land after we beat an inferior opposition like God wants us to.

You gotta love it when 10 minutes into the match you turn to the Hawk supporter next to you and say: "What the hell were we worried about all week?"

GOLDEN GOD BIRDS --- >>>> PREMIERSHIP HEROES ---- >>>>> BROWN AND GOLD ARMY OF TOUGH WARRIOR MEN ----- >>>>> 4 LIFE

by Auswolf on Aug 28, 2009 6:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Future multiple all-star, dunk champion, finals MVP and a fixture on the all-nba squad, at least if you listen to Blazer’s fans.

Jennings: F*** the Knicks, them n***** is always going to be weak.

by Xand1 on Aug 28, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Personally, I can see where a smigden of the hype comes from. He’s an extremely talented player top pick (tall, skilled, athletic big man) and has more upside than most. I’d take him in a second.

However, I doubt he’s ever gonna be as good as he should be, and especially not as good as Blazers fans think he will be. I mean everyone overvalues their players, especially young ones with potential, but they get way too hot-and-bothered over him. (Are some doing this with Rubio without even having watched him in the NBA yet?)

The fun part is that Love basically has the abilities that LaMarcus lacks to become that type of player (rebounding, strength, passing ablitiy, consistent drive.) They’re both pretty skilled, too, so I can see Love being better than LaMarcus even if he’s not as talented.

by nja700 on Aug 28, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t wholly disagree with this, except for Aldridge being a very deft passer. He was among the league leaders in bad pass/assist ratio. Though the offense doesn’t always call for him to pass, he is quite skilled at it.

"If the Lakers are Hollywood, then we are South Central." - Clipper fan.

by Cablinasian on Aug 30, 2009 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for asking

I for one was at a loss. First rule of journalism (or writing of any kind): All acronyms and initials must be preceded by the terms/name you’re shortening.

And for me, the biggest impedance to becoming a stat freak like you folks is that you drop terms without spelling them out or explaining them. I love to read the insights you guys have into the team, but sometimes you pack it in pretty densely.

by TMiss on Aug 29, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I too was once in that position before

The best way to learn what it all means (that I have found anyways), is to go to basketball-reference.com and look at a player’s stats, scroll down to their advanced stats and hover your cursor over any abbreviations you would like explained.

That being said, very few people are still going to bother writing out the meaning behind LBJ or CP3 and in this particular instance, the use of LMA rather than his whole name added to the joke. Remember that one though, I’ve been around here for just a couple months and already I have seen his name mentioned more than any Wolves players not named Rubio, Flynn, Brewer, Love, or Jefferson.

by Mplax on Aug 29, 2009 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yup

Find it here. It starts talking about Oden, but then becomes an LMA fest.

Gotta be a record for most comments on CH.

"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."

by biggity2bit on Aug 27, 2009 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why can't people be good natured?

It’d be the best thing in the world for both these players to develop into great young talents, so there’d be a rivalry. Why does being excited about Love’s potential preclude recognizing that Aldridge has a nice future too, or vice versa?

It’s like the Mayo thing. People need to see Love or Mayo fail to feel somehow vindicated in their opinions of that trade. Wouldn’t it be best for the two players, who already had their careers oddly reflecting each other in college, to both come out pretty good?

Why do people have to get so, excuse me, pissy about it?

by feral on Aug 28, 2009 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great points

Reminds of me listening to old timers talk about being a fan of the NFL in the 60’s and 70’s, or old school baseball fans. The leagues were so much smaller back then, so much more intimate, and fans seemed to appreciate a good player being a good player. The idea of hating someone because they’re good didn’t seem to influence people’s perceptions nearly as much as it does now.

I hope they both develop as well. It’ll only mean great things for us, the NBA, and the product we get to watch. I’m sure there are plenty out there that just want to dominate and have every other team’s players suck, but I’d rather watch real competition than cheap wins.

"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."

by biggity2bit on Aug 28, 2009 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Excellent. It seems to be a concept some fans and members of the media don't seem willing or able to grasp, there always has to be some duality and polar opposites.

That guy is a star, so that guy must be a bust. It comes up in Love vs. Mayo, Oden vs. Durant, LeBron vs. Kobe, East vs. West, etc. etc. It’s very rare to read “that guy is a star, but that guy often compared to him is also very good”. If all the players who allegedly “suck” really sucked, the NBA would be fairly empty.

There's Gotta Be More To Life

by Norsktroll on Aug 29, 2009 3:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I went with 16-17

I just never envision Love being a big time scorer in this league. He doesn’t really have a go-to move that is unstoppable (like Jefferson’s little right-handed push shot). What I do see happening though is a continued climb in his efficiency. He is already a master at getting to the free-throw line and I suspect he will knock down a higher % of his jumpers next season. This along with more minutes will help lift his PPG into the upper teens

by Rascal Flatts on Aug 27, 2009 5:01 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

16-17 as well

Just a slight jump. I see him improving on something in his game every single year. He’s just so damn smart and skilled not to. His (explosive, not strength-based) physical upside is pretty limited, but he’ll still be a very good starter in this league for quite a while. If he can improve his post scoring at all and keep extending his range to past the 3pt line, then I can see him approaching 20 someday.

I’d be more interested to see his other stats improve. His worth isn’t greatest as a scorer anyway. His 3-pointers, considering his skill and strength, would be nice to see jump. I’d like to see his assists rise, considering he’s known for his passing and that’s one of his greatest assets aside from rebounding for this team. Rebounding improvements would just be icing, considering he’s so absurdly good at it already. Any defensive stats improving noticeably would be great, and to see marked improvement in his efficiency and advanced statistics would be the most encouraging.

by nja700 on Aug 27, 2009 5:55 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Awesome stuff

Although in refuting an argument against Love, you may have opened up a new one. With as active as he is on the offensive glass, perhaps he should be on more of these charts. For someone who had to work to improve his scoring efficiency as the season went on, getting more of these easy shots would be the next logical step.*

*Though I suppose he’d be near the top of percentage of offense from fouls drawn at or near the basket. If such a statistic even existed.

by John Doe on Aug 27, 2009 9:35 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Ya, what stats are represented are important here

For the one list that he’s on (tips), Love actually had more tips than most of the guys ahead of him on the list. The lists all look at the percentage of overall shots taken that fell into one of these categories, but there’s a huge difference between a guy who attempts 250 shots a season and a guy who attempts 700 (KLove had 688 last year). This is the reason why I thought these lists made a compelling case for KLove being more offensively developed and well rounded than the story, “He’s short and gets all his points from his own misses/blocked shots.”

I do think it’s interesting that Al isn’t on any of these lists, given how much time as he spends under the basket.

The one guy who might make an appearance next year is Ryan Hollins. Most of the guys on the list are tall, can move/run well for a big man, and have good to crazy athleticism. Sound like any recent Twolf signing? Combined with a PG who—in addition to giving him good passes on cuts and alley-oops—can also drive to the basket and thus produce more opportunities for putbacks, Hollins might become our new Craig Smith: the guy who scores more then he should while having less of an impact than he should. No seriously, if Hollins has any sense of timing for this kind of stuff, he could put up more points than we might think next year based solely off this ‘easy’ garbage stuff.

"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."

by biggity2bit on Aug 28, 2009 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Al Comparison is especially curious

given that Al Jefferson seems to get a lot of points on putbacks and so on himself. There are times when the guy’s playing volleyball out there. Between them, the Wolves have two of the most-often-blocked front court players around.

by feral on Aug 29, 2009 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Indeed, upon further examination

it seems like people who take a lot of shots have a harder time getting on there, unless they both focus on a few types of shots and don’t do a whole lot of others. Most telling is that Dwight Howard, who probably was among the leaders in all these types of shots as totals, was only among the top twenty percentagewise in one of them. So yeah, disregard that stuff I said earlier.

by John Doe on Aug 28, 2009 12:01 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

OMG

You are going to incite a riot with Blazer blogheads. I may have to avoid this website for a week….

by DR_JPK on Aug 28, 2009 3:52 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Maybe

But probably not. Blazers fans don’t care about Love, so I don’t see why they would care about this. I think they’re more concerned about signing LMA to an extension and the future makeup of the team.

It would be interesting to hear their take on Oden ranking on some of the lists. Trolling BlazersEdge gives you the impression that this is shaping into a make or break year for him in regards to his connection with Blazers fandom.

"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."

by biggity2bit on Aug 28, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually,

The Blazers’ Edge analog to Canis posted a “Best and Worst Things About Being a Blazers Fan” entry this week, and both Canis Hoopus and the weird feud-iness about LMA and Love came up in the thread.

There are definite similarities between the two markets in terms of how oddly defensive dedicated fans get. Maybe it’s a universal thing, but somehow Blazers fans ‘sound’ more familiar to me than, say, Lakers and Spurs aficionados. It’s like two birds of prey who both prefer the same niche.

by feral on Aug 28, 2009 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lotta Scandihoovians in Portland...

It’s kinda like the west coast equivalent of Minnesota. They even talk funny. Yep, yoobet.

by timmuggs on Aug 28, 2009 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds like

My theory about why Americans and French people don’t like each other.

"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."

by biggity2bit on Aug 28, 2009 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And what is your theory about the French.......

Panic stations turned into happy land after we beat an inferior opposition like God wants us to.

You gotta love it when 10 minutes into the match you turn to the Hawk supporter next to you and say: "What the hell were we worried about all week?"

GOLDEN GOD BIRDS --- >>>> PREMIERSHIP HEROES ---- >>>>> BROWN AND GOLD ARMY OF TOUGH WARRIOR MEN ----- >>>>> 4 LIFE

by Auswolf on Aug 28, 2009 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh

That French people and Americans don’t always get along because we’re actually very similar—we’re both (generally) relatively self-centered and find it perfectly reasonable that everyone else should aspire to be just like us.

ps-(I hope the humor comes through).

"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."

by biggity2bit on Aug 29, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Except, traveling in France

i saw almost nothing of that. Extremely little. The most I could point out was brusque waiters, and French waiters are a genre unto themselves; the expectations are different, and they’re like that toward everyone.

There are absolutely times when Americans behave quite rudely by French standards. For one thing, lots of us SHOUT EVERYTHING WE SAY. (The British think that, too.) I’ve always been quite soft-spoken myself, and Paris to me feels quite natural. Its lower volume is where I’m at all the time. Then there are certain standards of behavior which never occur to Americans, but when are like a slap in the face to French folks. You don’t enter a shop and not greet the person at the register. You just don’t. You say “Bonjour,” or something, and to not do it is like pointedly ignoring someone. To come into a shop shouting to each other, and fail to acknowledge the shopkeeper — just plain startlingly rude.

But talk to a French person about how they feel about America sometime. You’re not going to find much like the weird stuff you hear and read, here, about the French. That isn’t a reciprocal feeling. They’re puzzled that we imagine it in them.

by feral on Aug 29, 2009 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've got to say in my European travels

and seeing Americans in action over here, you are very loud. Mind you, we have a broken volume switch over here too.

Best of France is outside of Paris and I found a good old Berlitz phrase book invaluable. We repeatedly found that if you’re willing to go 10% of the way with their language, they will help out enormously.

Panic stations turned into happy land after we beat an inferior opposition like God wants us to.

You gotta love it when 10 minutes into the match you turn to the Hawk supporter next to you and say: "What the hell were we worried about all week?"

GOLDEN GOD BIRDS --- >>>> PREMIERSHIP HEROES ---- >>>>> BROWN AND GOLD ARMY OF TOUGH WARRIOR MEN ----- >>>>> 4 LIFE

by Auswolf on Aug 30, 2009 6:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No doubt

No truer words have been spoken throughout all this. Gotta love rubes and fandom.

"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."

by biggity2bit on Aug 28, 2009 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

O sweeeet!!!! time to link this to BE and let the riot begin!

Steven Hill's "PER" last year was 88.54… His beard alone had a PER of 42.15...

by In Walks Rudy on Aug 28, 2009 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

FYI:

I had to delete the thread with the bad link. Too many crashed browsers.

Forever splitting the Cheechakos from the Sourdoughs
www.canishoopus.com

by Stop-n-Pop on Aug 29, 2009 5:56 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Who says LMA is the second coming? Most Blazer fans agree that he’s a nice young player who always makes the team better by being on the floor. We’re not saying that he’s a star player.

His rebounding is mediocre and his scoring efficiency is low… however, the TS% is somewhat “artificially” deflated. McMillan’s high/low zone offense is predicated upon the 20-foot pick-n-pop to spread the floor. The 20-foot jumper is an extremely inefficient shot in a vacuum, leading to poor statistics for LaMarcus. The offense as a whole, though, is very efficient. LMA deserves some credit for this.

In short, he’s a good player who helps his team. A solid third option on a title team. No more, no less.

To echo an earlier sentiment, why do we have to favor one side of this “debate?” They can both be highly successful players independently of each other… one doesn’t have to suck to validate the other.

"If the Lakers are Hollywood, then we are South Central." - Clipper fan.

by Cablinasian on Aug 30, 2009 9:14 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Love/Rubio

I actually like Love’s game. He’s a great passer, able scorer and he has a high basketball IQ.
Uh oh…looks like Kahn is in Spain AGAIN LOL!!!
Why doesn’t this guy just get the picture?
Rubio does not want to be a Wolve. If he did, he wouldn’t of signed that 6 year deal with the team from Spain. It might not be signed yet but if Kahn doesn’t trade Rubio….he will sign. Then what? Rubio is gone for 6 years? I guess you guys can wait 6 years huh?
If Rubio really wanted to spit in Kahns face…he would sit out all together this year and then re enter the draft next year. You guys probably didn’t know you can do that….but you can. As long as you don’t play for another team for a whole basketball season…you can re enter the draft the following year.
It’s not looking good for Kahn or you Wolves fans.
The sooner you get rid of Rubio…the better off you’ll be.
Unless you want to wait 6 years…and possibly more.
Good luck!!!

by DaJoka on Aug 30, 2009 10:28 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

bah.

You are uninformed.

by princelyfrank on Aug 30, 2009 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm guessing Knicks fan?

He’s right we probably didn’t know anything about his contract… we’ve just been discussing it for the past 2 months with no idea what words we were typing.
This is a new alltime low for someone to try to get Rubio to NY.

by Mplax on Aug 30, 2009 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

didn't anyone tell you

that the world revolves around NY…or was it LA…or was it Boston…Or maybe Chicago? The rest of us should just make stupid trades…sell our draft picks…and trot out D Leaguers.

by TheEvilProfessor on Aug 31, 2009 7:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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